Ambit claim on ISP's by APRA
12 Jun 96 10:21:42 +1000
I would have to say that I am dissapointed with the level of -debate- on this
issue. Let me start by saying that I am not a friend of APRA but statements
such as -blood suckers who are trying to justify their own existance- dont go
very far to advance the debate. They are also quite wrong.
APRA is one of the oldest of not the oldest copyright collecting societies in
Australia. It is recognised internationally as one of the most efficiently run
collecting societies in the world, basically it covers its operating costs from
the interest on the moneys it collects so all (or very nearly all) the money it
collects goes back to the copyright creators it represents. Those copyright
owners are not record companies but composers of the musical works that we all
listen to. It is their copyright that enables them to make a living! (I'm off
my copyright soap box now.)
You might like to think how you would feel if, as an author, your intellectual
property was being used by organisations which did not compensate you for that
APRA's recent letters to ISP's no doubt follow from their recent victory
against Telstra in a case heard by the Full Federal Court.(No doubt Mr Argy can
provide those interested in reading the court's decision with a citation.) I
can't say that I am completely persuaded by the majority of the court's
interpretation of the relevant provisions of the Copyright Act, nor the
reasoning used to reach its conclusion. However, the fact remains that APRA is
merely seeking to enforce the rights of its members in the light of that
decision. I should also mention that I understand that the decision of the
Federal Court is under appeal to the High Court so regardless of whether $1 per
subscriber is too high a price to pay there may be a good argument for
delaying any negotiations with APRA until the outcome of that appeal is known.
From: owner-link(a)charlotte.anu.edu.au on Wed, 12 Jun 1996 1:12
Subject: Re: Ambit claim on ISP's by APRA
To: Treyde, Peter
You, Edwin Parsons, said about something or other:
+On Tue, 11 Jun 1996, Philip Argy wrote:
+> This is a very interesting issue. I think there is a possibiolity that APRA
+> has misunderstood how some of these systems work.
+I would be very sure that APRA have very little understanding of how the
+Internet works and the technologies involved.
+I find it laughable that APRA have targetted a few -visible- ISP's with this
We got out letter on friday as well, so did First Link... I think they are
actually targetting the SMALLER, non visible ISPs, to try to get one of them
to pay up and acknowledge or say they are a broadcaster.
+'claim'. APARA obviously fail to understand that in order for me to receive
+digital audio over the 'net many different carriers may actually be involved
+in the carriage of that data as packets hop from one routing point to the
+next. I'd be interested to hear how Mr mellet plans to target all the various
+organizations that might be involved in the transmission and retransmission
+of this data over the 'net. Maybe APRA will be happy just to 'reap the
+benefits' from those ISP's who will roll-ver to APRAs demands.
Exactly... APRA can not claim that APIC pay, unless it tries to claim it off
of our uplinks, Telstra for the Phone/isdn lines and everything along the way.
A part of the letter (which i dont have handy so i may misquote) said that
the ISP's CAUSED the transmission, which is rediculous. Music on hold, Telstra
caused it, sure... Real Audio broadcasting of some CD's sure.. the ISP is
liable, and should pay.
When a user requests some music, he is CAUSING -US- the isp to transmit it,
and everyone along the way.
+It seems to me that APRA need to pause to gain a better understanding, then
+APRA should think about the loss of good-will as they (and other equally
+selfish members of the record industry) try double-dipping into the pockets
I have friends that deal with the music industry quite a lot, and i know
some artists and musicians and I let them read the letter, and I havent heard
them say one good thing about APRA yet... -A group of bloodsucking nobodies
who are trying to justify their own existance and line their own pockets-
was the comment from one musician friend.
+> Richard Mullett
+> Broadcasting and New Technologies Manager
Who is this joker... i was going to ring him, but since he is CC'd on this
email, how about you take me off your junk mailing list ok, and get a life.
We will not be paying you 1 cent, and I will telling the same to all the other
ISP's I communicate with daily.
Can I raise a side issue, which someone perhaps could champion for me.
I think we need a mailing list, which all admins (admin contact and tech
contacts?????) are on, so when something like the ARPA stunt happens, we can
inform every ISP very quickly. Other issues will also come up that all
ISPs will need to know about urgently...... there is no such thing now
(well not that I am on).... what do people think? Maybe ISOC-AU could
look after this?
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