[LINK] MyXfile: The X-Tango - UDDI Come-Lately

[Chirgwin, Richard]

Frank,

>a) Creation of industry based DTD's. (By specific industries)
Re work on industry specific DTDs, look at the catalogue published at
www.xml.org ... there's more than 50 to date ... does this count?

>b) Developing standardized DTD's for many shared/database data types 
Does standardised data handling inside the database matter if there's a
standardised access/exchange mechanism?

>c) Broadbased agreement at levels like W3C 
no comment...

>d) A standardized implementation at browser and XML client level. 
I wouldn't mind some explanation of what you mean. XML isn't a presentation
standard per se; although a browser can parse and present XML data ... but
having separated data from presentation, is there still a need for a
"standard presentation"? Wouldn't that inhibit XML's ability (for eg) to
present data access to both a browser and a PDA?

>e) Some quality XML authoring packages
Agreed!

>it is just an incrmental improvement in data handling and little more.

I agree, and here's the crux of the issue. For mine I can't understand
anybody raising (for example) the existence of both UDDI and ebXML to the
level of a jihad.

David, your original source has fallen into a double bind - (a) believing
that XML is HTML's replacement/successor (which is just silly!) and (b)
looking for controversy where none exists.

UDDI should not have surprised anybody, since to my certain knowledge it was
announced and discussed in detail in the developer community. It was, for
example, outlined by IBM at ObjectWorld in Sydney in October. It's just
inconceivable that something fit for PPTs at a presentation and the ends of
the earth could have been news to the experts!

And there's no necessary reason that the two are incompatible.

Richard Chirgwin


-----Original Message-----
From: Frank O'Connor [mailto:foconno1@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 22:04
To: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU
Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au
Subject: Re: [LINK] MyXfile: The X-Tango - UDDI Come-Lately


Mmmm ...

Much of the same hype as has dominated EDI, ERP and the like in the past.

Oh, I don't deny XML will be important ... but there are too many 
trying to turn it to their own purposes (MS with SOAP and MS.NET, 
Oracle and the database vendors with their various database products, 
this little and effort and a number of others come to mind) and not 
enough effort being done on little numbers like :

a) Creation of industry based DTD's. (By specific industries)

b) Developing standardized DTD's for many shared/database data types 
... but hey, do we want database products being standardized in their 
data handling? Larry Ellinson sure doesn't. Neither do a huge number 
of other database supplier luminaries. It'd screw their market to 
hell.

c) Broadbased agreement at levels like W3C (who to my mind have 
completely abrogated any claim they have to pushing XML by their lack 
of action over the last two years)

d) A standardized implementation at browser and XML client level. MS 
has their ideas, Netscape has theirs, many of the smaller browser 
vendors have put XML in the 'too hard basket'

e) Some quality XML authoring packages ... many of those I've seen 
have been of variable quality. (indeed with many, a straight text 
editor is preferable.)

f) Some quality XML application server packages.

Finally many are proposing XML as the 'White Knight' that will ride 
in and deliver us from the Dark Forces. It's focal to the 
Microsoft.NET strategy for example, but there's nothing in that 
strategy about providing data manipulation engines, security (read 
Para 9 of their IETF proposal ... it's a hoot!)  and the like to 
these wonderful new data structures that we can now have with XML. 
Many of the strategies assume serious server based operations that 
they don't specify, but I'm gonna be real surprised if it ever 
develops into an all encompassing solution that MS and others seem to 
be proposing.

To my mind I'll still be coding server solutions and the like in 5 
years time in much the same way as I am now. Sure, it'll be nice to 
have the data delivered to my solution in predefined data formats, 
but I was living OK with HTML encoded text being returned and 
translated on the fly. XML wasn't and isn't the highest item on my 
list of 'want to haves'. It's nice ... and that about sums it up.

Much ado about nothing ... no. But lets gets serious ... it is just 
an incrmental improvement in data handling and little more.

And, needy 'consultants' and IT salesmen will sell million dollar 
solutions based on it to relatively ignorant suits by proposing it as 
the solution for all ills, for years to come ... so it can't be all 
bad.

                                                                    :)

				Regards,

At 10:13 PM +1100 13/11/00, rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU wrote:
>MyXfile: The X-Tango - UDDI Come-Lately
>---------------------------------------
>by David Chia
>
>Xdate: 2000 Aug 31
>
>ebXML is suppose to be the universal XML standard for business
>and trade, to provide order to the current chaotic marketplace
>with numerous competing standards.
>
>However, the UDDI bombshell was announced from MS, IBM and Ariba,
>and a cast of another 33 early supporters:
>
>     <quote
>src=http://www.ariba.com/corporate/news/news.cfm?pressid=396&archive=1 >
>
>     Industry Leaders Join to Accelerate Business Integration and Commerce
>     On the Internet
>
>     SAN FRANCISCO, Sept. 6 -- A broad coalition of business and technology
>     leaders today announced the Universal Description, Discovery and
>     Integration (UDDI) Project, a cross-industry initiative designed to
>     accelerate and broaden business-to-business integration and commerce
on
>     the Internet.
>
>	</quote>
>
>The UDDI technical specifications was to be released publicly the
>following week.
>
>At the ebXML virtual workgroup meeting. It could be imagined that the
>following discussions could have happened:
>
>	Many in the group were stunned or silent.
>
>	"What the hack are they doing? Why can't they put their efforts into
>	this publicly open standards development project? Why creating YAS
>	(Yet Another Standard) ?"
>
>	"XXX, your company is among those backing it, what exactly are they
>          doing? Does the project there overlap with this?"
>
>	"Umm. Well, umm."
>
>The air is tense. World-wide rallying of support is necessary.
>
>The knight in shining armour, GCI's counter announcement:
>
>     <quote src=http://www.ebxml.org/news/pr_20000911.htm >
>
>     Global Manufacturers and Retailers Adopt ebXML
>     850,000 Companies Select ebXML
>     for New Global Commerce Internet Protocol
>
>	Boston, MA and Geneva, Switzerland; September 11, 2000-Members
>	of the Global Commerce Initiative (GCI) announced plans to use
>	ebXML as the backbone of their new data exchange standard for
>	business-to-business trade in the consumer goods industry. ebXML,
>	an initiative of the United Nations CEFACT and OASIS, will provide
>	the technical infrastructure for the Global Commerce Internet
>	Protocol, a set of recommendations governing the management of
>	data for Internet communication and other B2B interactions. GCI
>	members include 40 major manufacturers and retailers as well
>	as eight trade associations, which in total represent 850,000
>	companies around the world. Exchanges such as Transora, the
>	WorldWide Retail Exchange, GlobalNetXchange, and CPGmarket.com
>	are taking active roles in the GCI development.
>
>	</quote>
>
>Crescendo of world-wide endorsements from standard and trade bodies
>everywhere were heard, e.g. from the AU AFR:
>
>     <quote
>src=http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.afr.com.au/information/2000092
1/A9553-2000Sep20.html+gci+ebxml&hl=en >
>
>     ebXML wins nod as web script
>     Sept 21 2000
>
>     Standards bodies paved the way yesterday for e-commerce infrastructure
in
>     Australia by nominating e-business XML as the preferred web language
for
>     conducting business over the internet.
>
>     The new language stands to replace the more inflexible language that
>     dominates the web, HTML, and is expected to become the standard for
all
>     global trade.
>
>     Standards Australia, EAN Australia and Tradegate ECA yesterday
followed
>     the lead set by the international bodies by announcing their own
support
>     for ebXML.
>
>	</quote>
>
>Replacing HTML? Umm. Come again?
>Hmm. HTML, the proverbial substitue for punching bags?
>
>After the UDDI technical specifications was released,
>the virtual ebXML workgroup meeting:
>
>	"There are substancial overlap in the two projects."
>
>	"XXX, why didn't you warn us beforehand?"
>
>	"We were under Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) then."
>
>	"Why didn't you mention that you were under NDA?"
>
>	"That was also under the NDA ...
>	Those people higher-up move in mysterious ways."
>
>Interesting. They know what you know and you don't know what they know.
>The information on ebXML, including works in progress, are publicly
>available to all on the internet.
>
>The race is on.

-- 
************************
Apathy is a great cause for concern
... but who cares?
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