From patrick@quad.net.au Tue Jan 1 06:07:13 2002 From: patrick@quad.net.au (Patrick Corliss) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 16:07:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Applesoft Tutorial & Computer Science Text Books References: <20011228152706.A84198@localhost><20011228072641.A81059@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20011231182135.042389b0@pop> Message-ID: <01e801c19282$3385e020$b33efea9@hamza> On Monday, December 31, 2001 6:24 PM, Adam Todd wrote: Subject: Re: [LINK] SMH: Worms in Oz in 2001 > In 1984 I was programming Apple II's :) Hi Adam Well !! I'm amazed that you didn't have an Apple 1. As it happens, I had an Apple ][ Plus and later, when I had a hardware problem, I gave it away to a fellow UTS computing science student. (I enrolled in that course in 1980.) However, I still have three or four wire bound original manuals (including the Applesoft Tutorial) if any wants them. I also have heaps of computer science texts that I'd like to go to a good home. Any one interested, please email me privately. You will need to pick them up. Bring a spacious car if you want the text books. Some of them are truly excellent. I live in Lakemba, NSW. I am not interested in money (much) but a contribution to my meagre lifestyle would be appreciated. Best regards Patrick Corliss From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Jan 1 22:31:50 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:31:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] A Harvard Happy New Year! Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020102082910.020130c0@pop.primenet.com> Hi, Linkers. Life goes on in the technology world. Just caught this story on CNN and thought it may be of interest to those who may be considering using email as a Uni entrance alert option: http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/internet/01/01/harvard.spam.ap/index.html AOL glitch blocks Harvard admissions e-mails BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- Dozens of e-mail messages telling Harvard University applicants whether they had been admitted never arrived last month after America Online interpreted the messages as junk e-mail. "This wasn't exactly the instant response we intended," William Fitzsimmons, Harvard's dean of admissions and financial aid, told The Boston Globe. After anthrax spores were mailed through the U.S. postal system, Harvard began using e-mail to inform applicants quickly of whether they had been rejected or accepted. E-mail was used to notify almost all of the 6,000 students who applied in the school's early admission process. But for reasons that even AOL could not explain, the service blocked between 75 and 100 of the e-mails in December because the servers flagged the messages as "spam," the unwanted e-mails that clog users' mailboxes. The messages were bounced back to the university. (AOL Time Warner is the parent company of CNN.com.) "Spam is our number one problem. But it's hard to say what would have caused the system to filter e-mail from Harvard," AOL spokesman Nicholas Graham said. [snip] Happy 2002! Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Jan 1 22:43:15 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:43:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Hot Techs for 2002 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020102083842.02010200@pop.primenet.com> And this on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/31/hot.tech.2002.idg/index.html Hot technologies for 2002 Security anything Electronic collaboration - low cost video conferencing and online collaboration Peer-to-peer [a al Napster, but for business apps] Storage - off site? high speed access to? IP storage - pooled Voice over IP Speech recog [but that's a Gartner prediction, so who knows?] Wireless LANs - for non-mission-critical/confidential stuff XML - applications rather than specs Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From adam@todd.inoz.com Tue Jan 1 23:47:44 2002 From: adam@todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:47:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Canberra Plans to Censor the Internet Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102094717.01a64220@pop> Read this one form the web site, I've got a local copy in case it vanishes under censorship rules. It's VERY hard hitting at the end of the article. http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/02/opinion/opinion2.html The letter that dare not speak its name Canberra's plans to censor the Internet are hitting snags as net users fight back across Australia, writes David Marr. Right on the lip of the cliff, the Carr Government is hesitating to join the Australian crusade to make the Internet suitable for children. Though it would take miracles rather than laws to achieve this purpose, the Howard Government passed legislation which the states are expected to reinforce by punishing anyone who puts anything on the Net that is "unsuitable for minors". Before Christmas, the Classification (Publications, Films And Computer Games) Enforcement Amendment Bill passed all stages of the NSW Parliament. The Opposition supported it enthusiastically. In the confusion of the end-of-year legislative rush, no-one voted or even spoke against the bill. It could be taken down the road to Government House tomorrow and signed into law. Turning Tragedy into Triumph - Feature Film "Caught in the Net" http://iconoclast.inoz.com/tjps/ <---- it's about AJ! PROUD FATHER of #2 BJ Todd born 9:33 AM 5 Mar 2000! 8lb 12 oz!!!! AJ #1 Kidnapped by NSW Government - See http://docs.ajtodd.com It just doesn't stop! 2001 - http://anti.integral.inoz.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Adam Todd Senior (Father to AJ 4/98 and Brook 3/00) Phone (intl) +61 2 8825 6102 (Australia) 02 8825 6102 Fax (intl) +61 2 8825 6199 (Australia) 02 8825 6199 From billd@lisp.com.au Wed Jan 2 01:25:11 2002 From: billd@lisp.com.au (Bill D'Arcy) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:25:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Net censorship Message-ID: Approved klutz Linkers The letter that dare not speak its name http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/02/opinion/opinion2.html Canberra's plans to censor the Internet are hitting snags as net users fight back across Australia, writes David Marr. If the NSW regime of Internet censorship comes into force, the Herald will not be able to republish online any material from the newspaper which it guesses the OFLC might classify as unsuitable for people under 18. That would mean, for instance, that Monday's story republished from The New York Times about the erotic frescoes of Pompeii could not safely be placed on the Internet. And even if this censorship regime were introduced and enforced, it would not make a wit's difference to what kids can read and see on the Internet. While the restrictions promise to make fools of us as a smart, contemporary society they won't help protect real children from the real nasties of the Net. For that they will need what they have always needed here: good sense, good teachers and good parents. Bill D'Arcy From glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au Wed Jan 2 05:10:05 2002 From: glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au (Glen Turner) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:40:05 +1030 Subject: FW: [LINK] auDA to auction rare domain names References: Message-ID: <3C32881D.5D966A45@aarnet.edu.au> Ian Johnston wrote: > > Hopefully, the users of these Closed 2LDs will also meet a fair share of the > cost of running auDA (NB: a possibly public policy issue). Under the > current auDA regulatory regime, the cost appears to have been met mainly by > com.au licence holders. As it should be. The regulation necessary for .edu.au has been done in the past through existing education sector policy mechanisms at a very low marginal cost. If commercial entities require a heavier weight policy and regulatory mechanism then they should carry the additional costs of that mechanism. Regards, Glen -- Glen Turner Network Engineer (08) 8303 3936 Australian Academic and Research Network glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au http://www.aarnet.edu.au/ -- The revolution will not be televised, it will be digitised From stephen@melbpc.org.au Wed Jan 2 08:05:01 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:05:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The NSW bush fires Message-ID: <200201020705.SAA26643@newemu.melbpc.org.au> Hello there .. Would like to express sincere best wishes to any subscriber of this list whose home or business etc is under threat from the current NSW fires. Hopefully the fires will soon be under control .. and all will be well again. With sympathy, Stephen Loosley mail@stephen.hm From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Jan 2 09:13:38 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:13:38 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Hot Techs for 2002 In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020102083842.02010200@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: Jan, you missed "Pigs with Wings" On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > And this on CNN: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/31/hot.tech.2002.idg/index.html > > Hot technologies for 2002 > > Security anything > Electronic collaboration - low cost video conferencing and online collaboration > Peer-to-peer [a al Napster, but for business apps] > Storage - off site? high speed access to? IP storage - pooled > Voice over IP > Speech recog [but that's a Gartner prediction, so who knows?] > Wireless LANs - for non-mission-critical/confidential stuff > XML - applications rather than specs > > Jan > > JLWhitaker Associates > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia > jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Jan 2 09:27:22 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 19:27:22 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] The NSW bush fires In-Reply-To: <200201020705.SAA26643@newemu.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: Stephen, I agree. And I would like to add that I consider arson to be akin to terrorism. The problem is that much arson is committed by juveniles. Well, I'm sorry, but these juveniles deserve to be locked up ALONG WITH their parent (one at least), guardian, or DFACS case manager (do I hear AJ cheering in the background), as their supervisor. Yes I do mean that the supervisory person gets a custodial sentence as well, even the DFACS case manager. On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Stephen Loosley wrote: > Hello there .. > > Would like to express sincere best wishes to any subscriber of this list > whose home or business etc is under threat from the current NSW fires. > Hopefully the fires will soon be under control .. and all will be well again. > > With sympathy, > Stephen Loosley > mail@stephen.hm > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From jmorris@intercode.com.au Wed Jan 2 12:46:30 2002 From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:46:30 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] MS struggles to discredit Linux Message-ID: Another apparent Microsoft leak: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23518.html - James -- James Morris From goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au Wed Jan 2 15:10:15 2002 From: goldstein_david@yahoo.com.au (=?iso-8859-1?q?David=20Goldstein?=) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 01:10:15 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] pornography & violence, the Net & games, a study & a report Message-ID: <20020102141015.54997.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Protecting Children from Internet Pornography (ZENIT - The World Seen >From Rome) In an Ongoing Web War, Free Speech Rights Push the Limits "Freedom of expression needs to be restricted." This isnīt the latest declaration of an authoritarian government, but an appeal made by the head of the United Nations Childrenīs Fund, Carol Bellamy. A few days ago marked the 10th anniversary of the first Web page. The explosion of data available through the Internet has had many positive effects, but also makes life a lot easier for pornographers. The Guardian newspaper of London reported Dec. 19 that the head of UNICEF called for greater censorship of the Internet to combat the flood of child pornography sites on the World Wide Web. http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=14495 Fair Play? Violence, Gender and Race in Video Games. Most of the top-selling video games offer very little racial and gender diversity, according to a comprehensive study conducted by Children Now, a child research and action organization. White characters were the only human characters found in young children's games. Nearly all of the heroes were white and female characters were severely under-represented in video games, accounting for only 16 percent of human characters. INTRODUCTION There are probably few adults these days who don't remember the excitement of playing early video games such as Pac Man, Space Invaders and Frogger. The ability to interact with a machine in a game situation was thrilling-and still is. Today, the little yellow dot-eater and the highly pixilated spaceships have evolved into seamlessly animated characters, graphic images of demons, and lifelike humans complete with lifelike weapons and lifelike blood. Video games were a $6 billion industry in 2000 and sales are projected to reach as high as $8 billion in 2001. Over 280 million units were sold in 2000 alone, and it is estimated that 60% of all Americans, or about 145 million people, play video games on a regular basis. This level of market penetration, combined with the high levels of realism makes it important to investigate the messages video games send children. There are some benefits to video games. Studies have found that playing video games can improve children's visual attention skills, their spatial skills, their iconic skills and their computer literacy skills. In addition, the use of educational games, which are almost exclusively sold for the PC, have been shown to help improve academic performance. However, many more studies have shown relationships between playing video games and unhealthy outcomes, such as isolation and loneliness, obesity, belief in gender stereotypes and increased aggressive behavior. In fact, video games' unique interactive capabilities may make them even more likely to influence children's attitudes, beliefs and behaviors than more traditional forms of media. Fair Play? Violence, Gender and Race in Video Games examines the top-selling video games for each of the seven different game systems. Fair Play? identifies some of the unhealthy social messages that video games may be sending to young players about violence, gender and race and contains ideas for improving games for children. Note: In this report the term "video game" refers to both games played on a personal computer and games played on a console system. "Computer and video games bring us into imaginary worlds and allow us to define who we are, how we behave, and how we relate to others in the game; they challenge us intellectually; they excite us; they educate and empower us." - Douglas Lowenstein, President, Interactive Digital Software Association. http://www.childrennow.org/media/video-games/2001/ http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo! - It's My Yahoo! Get your own! From jeff.evans@dsd.vic.gov.au Thu Jan 3 01:38:40 2002 From: jeff.evans@dsd.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@dsd.vic.gov.au) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:38:40 +1000 Subject: [LINK] FWD: Free Pint Index Message-ID: Happy new year to all Here's an index to articles from the extremely useful Free Pint website & newsletter. It's also online at http://www.freepint.com/issues/01indexb.htm Regards Jeff Evans Online Services Manager, Small Business Online Department of State & Regional Development, Victoria, Australia -- Free Pint "Helping 44,000 people use the Web for their work" http://www.freepint.com/ > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Here is the complete index to all articles and book reviews which have appeared in the Free Pint Newsletter since the first edition in 1997. We hope you find it useful. Please keep it for future reference and redistribute/copy/print all or any part of this index as you wish. ONLINE INDEX WITH ACTIVATED HYPERLINKS http://www.freepint.com/issues/01indexb.htm > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = SUBJECT SPECIFIC ARTICLES Aboriginal Australia ...... http://www.freepint.com/issues/150201.htm Aeronautics and Aerospace . http://www.freepint.com/issues/070900.htm Air Transport ............. http://www.freepint.com/issues/270400.htm Archaeology ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/240699.htm Architecture .............. http://www.freepint.com/issues/200100.htm Auctions .................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/141200.htm Bell Ringing .............. http://www.freepint.com/issues/190701.htm Business and Accounting ... http://www.freepint.com/issues/190398.htm Business Info. Portals .... http://www.freepint.com/issues/021100.htm Business Rankings ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/060901.htm Business (SMEs) ........... http://www.freepint.com/issues/161100.htm Careers Information ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/040101.htm Cash Flow ................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/210900.htm Central & Eastern Europe .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/270599.htm Charities ................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/010301.htm Chemistry ................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/150499.htm Chemistry Webzines ........ http://www.freepint.com/issues/020300.htm Climate Change ............ http://www.freepint.com/issues/011101.htm Coffee .................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/011098.htm Communities of Practice ... http://www.freepint.com/issues/291101.htm Competitive Intelligence .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/010499.htm Competitive Intelligence .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/220600.htm Computer Publications ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/220799.htm Conference Information .... http://www.freepint.com/issues/070601.htm Consumer Health ........... http://www.freepint.com/issues/151098.htm Current Awareness ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/190298.htm Data Privacy .............. http://www.freepint.com/issues/040399.htm Data Protection ........... http://www.freepint.com/issues/230999.htm Digital Publishing ........ http://www.freepint.com/issues/151101.htm Document Delivery (Euro) .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/191000.htm Dyslexia .................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/070601.htm E-Books ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/010201.htm Economics ................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/150201.htm Electric Power ............ http://www.freepint.com/issues/010301.htm Electronic Commerce ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/080799.htm Electronic Communities .... http://www.freepint.com/issues/181199.htm Electronic Commerce ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/170998.htm Electronic Health ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/210601.htm Employment Law (UK) ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/110500.htm Engineering ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050298.htm Engineering E-journals .... http://www.freepint.com/issues/290499.htm Engineering Portals ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/060700.htm Environment ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/180299.htm Europe (Central and East).. http://www.freepint.com/issues/021100.htm Female Detective Fiction .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/290301.htm Film and Television ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/301100.htm Financial Information ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/071099.htm Food Industry ............. http://www.freepint.com/issues/280598.htm Genealogy and Ancestors ... http://www.freepint.com/issues/030800.htm Geology ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/191000.htm Grants .................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050701.htm GSM, GIS and GPS .......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/110500.htm Handheld Computers ........ http://www.freepint.com/issues/200700.htm Health .................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/151101.htm Help and Welfare (UK) ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/021299.htm History of the USA ........ http://www.freepint.com/issues/290301.htm Horseracing ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/141200.htm Househunting (UK) ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/021299.htm Immigration ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/010499.htm Information Architecture .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/190701.htm Information Industry ...... http://www.freepint.com/issues/250698.htm Information Products ...... http://www.freepint.com/issues/250698.htm Information Providers ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/100501.htm Insurance ................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/080600.htm Intranet .................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/300498.htm Intranet Toolkits ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/220799.htm Intranets and Extranets ... http://www.freepint.com/issues/090999.htm Investment Funds ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/260401.htm IT ........................ http://www.freepint.com/issues/080198.htm Journalism ................ http://www.freepint.com/issues/210199.htm Knowledge Management ...... http://www.freepint.com/issues/130400.htm Knowledge Management ...... http://www.freepint.com/issues/210900.htm Languages ................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/270599.htm Latin America ............. http://www.freepint.com/issues/020801.htm Legal ..................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/030998.htm Library and Info Science .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/041199.htm Management Case Studies ... http://www.freepint.com/issues/261198.htm Market Research ........... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050398.htm Market Research Agencies .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/030200.htm Medical ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/220198.htm Mental Health ............. http://www.freepint.com/issues/070900.htm Middle East Business ...... http://www.freepint.com/issues/260401.htm Modems .................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/151098.htm Museums ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/300300.htm Music ..................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/211099.htm Music - Classical ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/030200.htm Music - Revolution ........ http://www.freepint.com/issues/161100.htm News Aggregation .......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/060898.htm Outdoor Information ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/290499.htm Patents ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/130599.htm Patents ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/051000.htm Pharmaceutical/ Health .... http://www.freepint.com/issues/180399.htm Plastics and Rubber ....... http://www.freepint.com/issues/080799.htm Photography ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/020801.htm Photography ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/160801.htm Photo Libraries ........... http://www.freepint.com/issues/291101.htm Political Web Sites (UK) .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/170200.htm Portals ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/160300.htm Puppetry and Animation .... http://www.freepint.com/issues/200700.htm Radio ..................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/040101.htm Railways .................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/301100.htm Railways .................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/060901.htm Recruitment Industry ...... http://www.freepint.com/issues/020498.htm Reflexology ............... http://www.freepint.com/issues/170800.htm Science ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/160498.htm Seniors ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/040299.htm Statistics ................ http://www.freepint.com/issues/090798.htm Streaming Media & Broadband http://www.freepint.com/issues/120401.htm Surveillance and Privacy .. http://www.freepint.com/issues/030800.htm Tax ....................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/041001.htm Tax (UK) .................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/170800.htm Taxonomies ................ http://www.freepint.com/issues/041001.htm Trade Associations ........ http://www.freepint.com/issues/060898.htm Travel .................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/020300.htm Travel and Tourism ........ http://www.freepint.com/issues/230798.htm Voluntary Sector .......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/180101.htm Voluntary Sector .......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/160801.htm Wales ..................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/200901.htm WAP & Mobile Internet ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/181001.htm Waste ..................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/240501.htm Water ..................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/181199.htm Weather ................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/100699.htm Weddings .................. http://www.freepint.com/issues/130400.htm Women in Business ......... http://www.freepint.com/issues/200901.htm > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> RESEARCH A UK COMPANY OR COMPANY DIRECTOR <<< > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = SEARCHING ARTICLES A New Light on the Horizon [Northern Light] ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/190298.htm File finding, file filing ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/090999.htm Google ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/210601.htm Images ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/240501.htm Interview: Reva Basch, Super Searcher ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050899.htm Invisible Web ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/080600.htm Reverse Psychology - How to find more sites like the ones you love ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/170998.htm Searching for Mammon - Search engine business models ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/100699.htm Search Technology ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/051000.htm Topics and Collections: An Alternative Metaphor for Using the Web ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/170200.htm Tracking the Net (Web Site Monitoring Tools) ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/131201.htm Understanding 'cookies' on the Web ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/070199.htm Web Slavery - Automating Information Retrieval ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/280598.htm > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> FILL AN INFORMATION-RELATED JOB VACANCY <<< > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ARTICLES FOR WEBMASTERS 12 Offline Ways of Promoting Your URL ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/040399.htm Affiliate and Associate Programs ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/041199.htm D.I.Y. Site Design ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050701.htm First Amongst Equals (Search Engine Placement) ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/230798.htm Getting Good References ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/071099.htm Internet, Copyright and Linking ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/070199.htm Maximising Press and PR Exposure via the Internet ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/250500.htm Search Engine Promotion ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/200100.htm Surfing the Sludge - Tips on Good Web Page Design ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/060700.htm The International Marketing Power of Domain Names ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/020498.htm Wireless Application Protocol (WAP) ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/220600.htm Web Site Marketing - How do they do that? ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/110698.htm Web Site Promotion Ideas ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/121198.htm Who goes there...? - Access Control Issues for Internet-based information services ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/180399.htm XML ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/150301.htm XML : Perception to Practice ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/250500.htm > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> INFORMATION-RELATED EVENT LISTINGS <<< > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = GENERAL INTEREST ARTICLES 2001 - The Internet Election? .......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/100501.htm Access IAC Direct Through InSite Pro ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/300498.htm An adventure in ADSL: the Superhighway finally becomes 'super'? .......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/010201.htm Answering back - the importance of email ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/240699.htm But what is it good for? ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050398.htm Cataloging the Internet: The Dublin Core ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/150499.htm CD-ROMs and the Web ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/121198.htm Deafblind access to the Web ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/140598.htm Delivered to your desktop ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/291098.htm Diagnosing Web Problems ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/220198.htm Digital technology and the telephone line ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/211099.htm Fabricating Information - re-using information ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050298.htm Finding information products and services via the Net ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/250698.htm Freedom of Information .......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/150301.htm Free Pint in 1998 ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/171298.htm Free Pint in 1999 ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/161299.htm Free Pint In 2001 ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/131201.htm Getting Connected in a Rural Area .......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/120401.htm How to run a survey on the Net ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/110698.htm How to select and optimise your PC Internet modem ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/151098.htm Information overload ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/050899.htm Information quality on the Internet ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/210199.htm Internet Development in the Middle East ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/300300.htm Job Hunting on the Net ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/020498.htm Lurking on Lists ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/130599.htm Making it part of your life ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/291098.htm Marketing Library and Information Services ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/011101.htm New Library: now comes the action ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/180299.htm NUA: A discussion with Gerry McGovern ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/230999.htm WWW.OED.COM - A New Home for the Dictionary ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/160300.htm Online Business News: A Tale of Boom and Bust? .......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/180101.htm Online Information - The past and the future ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/060100.htm PanEris: a model for the virtual establishment ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/060100.htm Preview of Online Information 98 ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/261198.htm Researching from home ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/040299.htm Review of Online Information 98 ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/171298.htm Review of Online Information 99 ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/161299.htm Six Opinions on Internet World UK ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/140598.htm Small is Beautiful: Being a Small Business on the Internet ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/090798.htm Teaching English as a Foreign Language ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/270400.htm The Duffers Guide to 56K Modems! ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/160498.htm The Good Times are not about to end, unfortunately ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/011098.htm Top Five Web Resources of 1997 ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/080198.htm Tricks with local newsgroups ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/030998.htm Working in Information in the UK Voluntary Sector ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/181001.htm Working the Net ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/190398.htm > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> HELP WITH TRICKY RESEARCH QUESTIONS AT THE BAR <<< > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> HAVE PAST NEWSLETTER ISSUES EMAILED TO YOU <<< 1997 ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/1997issues.htm 1998 ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/1998issues.htm 1999 ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/1999issues.htm 2000 ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/2000issues.htm 2001 ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/2001issues.htm 2002 ..... http://www.freepint.com/issues/2002issues.htm > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = BOOK REVIEWS http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf Advertising on the Internet ................. http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/advertising.htm A Guide to Finding Quality Information on the Internet (1st & 2nd Ed.) ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/quality.htm .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/quality2.htm A Simple Guide to Writing for your Website ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/131201.htm Business @ the speed of thought ........................... http://freepint.com/bookshelf/gates.htm Blown to Bits ........................... http://freepint.com/bookshelf/blown.htm Common Knowledge - How Companies Thrive by Sharing What They Know .................... http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/common.htm The Business & Economy Internet Resource Handbook ................... http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/busecon.htm Capitalizing on Knowledge: from E-Business to K-Business ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/151101.htm Competing with Information ................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/competing.htm Creating Value in the Network Economy ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/value.htm Customer Service on the Internet ................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/custserve.htm Dan Janal's Guide to Marketing on the Internet ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/janal.htm Designing Web Usability: the practice of simplicity ................. http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/usability.htm Done Deals - Venture Capitalists Tell Their Stories ................. http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/donedeals.htm E-Business to the Power of 12: The Principles of .Competition ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/twelve.htm Electronic Commerce - Strategies and models for B2B trading ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/timmers.htm Futurize Your Enterprise .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/futurize.htm Great Scouts! Cyberguides for Subject Searching on the Web ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/great.htm How to survive the eBusiness downturn | eBusiness and ERP Executive's Guide to eBusiness | How to write a .com business plan ...................... http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/4in1.htm Improving Data Warehouse and Business Information Quality: Methods for Reducing Costs and Increasing Profits ................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/warehouse.htm Information Marketing ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/011101.htm Information Rules: A Strategic Guide to the Network Economy ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/rules.htm International Business Information on the Web ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/intbus.htm Internet Business Intelligence: How to build a big company system on a small company budget ........................ http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/vine.htm Internet Ethics ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/ethics.htm Law of the Supersearchers: The Online Secrets of Top Legal Researchers .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/superlaw.htm Leading the Revolution .................. http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/revolution.htm Managing in the New Economy .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/managing.htm Mastering the Digital Market Place ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/master.htm MetaCapitalism: The e-Business Revolution and the Design of 21st-Century Companies and Markets .............. http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/metacapitalism.htm Millennium Intelligence ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/compint.htm Mining For Gold On The Internet: How to find investment and financial information on the Internet ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/mining.htm net.people: The Personalities and Passions Behind the Web Sites ................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/netpeople.htm Net Future ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/seven.htm NetSlaves ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/slaves.htm Net Worth .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/networth.htm The Non-Designer's Web Book (2nd Ed.) ....................... http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/non.htm Online Communities: Designing Usability, Supporting Sociability ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/oncom.htm Organizing Knowledge: introduction to managing access to information ................... http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/orgknow.htm Poor Richard's Building Online Communities ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/poorcom.htm Poor Richard's Creating eBooks ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/ebooks.htm Poor Richard's Internet Marketing and Promotions ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/richard.htm Researching the legal web: a guide to legal resources on the Internet .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/legalweb.htm Searching CD-Rom and Online Information Sources ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/chowd.htm Silicon Gold Rush ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/silicon.htm Statistical Methods for the Information Professional ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/stats.htm StrikingItRich.Com ........................ http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/rich.htm Super Searchers Do Business ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/super.htm Super Searchers in the News - The Online Secrets of Journalists and News Researchers ................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/supernews.htm Super Searchers on Health & Medicine: The Online Secrets of Top Health & Medical Researchers .................... http://www.freepint.co.uk/bookshelf/health.htm Super Searchers on Wall Street - Top Investment Professionals Share Their Online Research Secrets ......................... http://www.freepint.com/issues/181001.htm The Battle of the Portals ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/battle.htm The Caring Economy: Business Principles for the Digital Age ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/caring.htm The Cluetrain Manifesto: The end of business as usual ................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/cluetrain.htm The E-Commerce Question And Answer Book .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/question.htm The Extreme Searcher's Guide to Web Search Engines (1st & 2nd Ed.) ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/extreme.htm .................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/extreme2.htm The Internet: The Rough Guide 1999 ........................... http://freepint.com/bookshelf/rough.htm The Invisible Web: Searching the hidden parts of the Internet ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/pedley.htm The Invisible Web: Uncovering Information Sources Search Engines Can't See ................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/invisible.htm Using the Internet as a Reference Tool ..................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/reftool.htm Weaving the Web | How the Web was Born ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/weave.htm Web Developer.Com Guide to Search Engines ......................... http://freepint.com/bookshelf/develop.htm When Things Start to Think ....................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/think.htm World Wide Web Marketing - Second Edition ...................... http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/sterne.htm Bookshelf Reviews by Subject Internet Strategy http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/strategy.htm Internet Searching http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/searching.htm Internet Marketing http://www.freepint.com/bookshelf/marketing.htm > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> EMAIL NEWSLETTER LIST HOSTING SERVICE <<< > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> ABOUT FREE PINT <<< Free Pint is an online community of information researchers. Members receive this free newsletter every two weeks packed with tips on finding quality and reliable business information on the Internet. Joining is free at and provides access to the substantial archive of articles, book reviews, jobs, industry news & events, with answers to your research questions and networking at the Free Pint Bars. Free Pint Regulars (paid-up members) also receive a weekly current awareness newsletter, discounts and publicity. > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = This index has been sent to . _____________________________________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute or reproduce this e-mail or the attachments. If you have received this message in error please notify us by return e-mail. _____________________________________________________________ From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Thu Jan 3 01:37:09 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:37:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] rural Australia digital publishing projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020103112458.00ac37c0@ems.rmit.edu.au> Does anyone know of any rural/regional e-book/digital book publishing or related projects? I am looking for business examples, case studies, etc. as part of the Creator to Consumer http://www.c-2-csystem.com digital publishing project. thanks and best of the new year to all Linkers, Karin Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Thu Jan 3 03:22:35 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 13:22:35 +1100 Subject: Fwd: [LINK]: Insider trading reports going online (Ontario Securities Commission) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020103132044.00b2cd80@ems.rmit.edu.au> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment a nice example of electronic accountability, don't know how insider trading is reported here: forwarded from a Canadian list: >CBC News Online - Ottawa News Digest 02/01/02 >Web Posted | Jan 2 2002 09:52 AM CST > >Ottawa - Insider trading reports will soon be filed electronically over a >new, secure, Internet-based trading system. >The Ontario Securities Commission is launching the online system later >this month. > >Insiders such as the presidents and CEOs of publicly traded companies have >to file reports when they buy or sell company stock. Until now, that's >always been done with paper files. > >The new Internet-based program will make insider reports available to >anyone, 24 hours a day, seven days a week at no charge. It will also allow >reports to be filed immediately. > >"The world is moving more and more to Web-based systems," says Eva Vranic, >the manager of corporate finance at the Ontario Securities Corporation. >"We think it makes sense to allow insiders to both file and have access to >their information using a Web-based system." > >Mark Burton, a lawyer and partner at Stikeman Elliott, says it's a great >step forward. > >"Somebody who has an interest in a public stock may wish to go to the >insider reports and find out if there is a pattern of trading by insiders >of the company," says Burton. > >"Perhaps they've been accumulating stock over the last six months or 12 >months and that's a good signal that insiders have confidence in the stock >and that it may suggest the stock is a good buy." > >But it works the other way too. Trading by insiders can also signal that a >company is in trouble. > >This new system moves Canada ahead of the U.S., where insider reports are >still filed on paper. Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/7ff6765b/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From ben-mcginnes@iname.com Thu Jan 3 03:16:59 2002 From: ben-mcginnes@iname.com (Ben McGinnes) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:16:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] privacy.gov.au down Message-ID: <20020103131659.A17364@mail.enternet.com.au> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment Hi Linkers, Looks like the Privacy Commission is having trouble already, going=20 to http://www.privacy.gov.au/ produces: Server object error 'ASP 0177 : 800401f3'=20 Server.CreateObject Failed=20 /index.asp, line 5=20 Invalid class string=20 Regards, Ben ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 174 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/6fe74c55/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From psg@hushmag.tv Wed Jan 2 23:56:51 2002 From: psg@hushmag.tv (paul) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 22:56:51 Subject: [LINK] Message-ID: <200201030456.g034uo715371@web.anu.edu.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/035e254a/attachment.htm From ndiokhobass@yahoo.com Thu Jan 3 07:28:12 2002 From: ndiokhobass@yahoo.com (BASSEY NDIOKHO (Mr.)) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 07:28:12 +0100 Subject: [LINK] ASSISTANCE Message-ID: <200201030628.g036S7723920@web.anu.edu.au> MR. BASSEY NDIOKHO. Tel# 234 -1-775-6370 Fax# 234 -1-759-3655 ATTN: PRESIDENT/CEO. Sir, REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP First, I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, this is by virtue of its nature as being utterly CONFIDENTIAL. I am Mr. Bassey Ndiokho, an Executive Director (Banking and Treasury Operations) with the UNION BANK OF NIGEIRA PLC, (UBN) Lagos, Nigeria. I came to know of you in my private search for a reliable and reputable person to handle this confidential transaction, which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign Bank Account requiring maximum confidence. THE PROPOSAL A foreigner, late Engr. Johnson Creek, an Oil Merchant/Contractor with the Federal Government of Nigeria, until his death five years ago in a ghastly air crash, banked with us here at the UNION BANK OF NIGERIA PLC, Lagos, and had a closing balance of USD$26.5M (TWENTY SIX MILLION, FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS) which the bank now expects to be claimed by Creek's next-of-kin or alternatively be donated to a discredited Trust Fund for arms and ammunition at a military war college here in Nigeria. Fervent valuable efforts have been made by the Union Bank of Nigeria Plc, to get in touch with any of Johnson Creek's family but have proved abortive till date. It is because of the perceived possibility of not being able to locate late Engr. Johnson Creek's next-of-kin (he died in the crash with his wife and two children) that the management under the influence of our Chairman, Elder Kalu Uke Kalu and some members of the board of Directors, that an arrangement be made for the funds to be declared "UNCLAIMED" and subsequently be donated to the Trust Fund for Arms and Ammunition to further enhance the course of war in Africa and the world in general. In order to avert this negative development, some of my trusted colleagues and I now seek your permission to have you stand as next-of-kin to late Engr. Johnson Creek so that the funds, USD$26.5M would be released and paid into your bank account as next-of-kin. All documents and proofs to enable you get this fund will be carefully worked out and as such, we are assuring you of a 100% risk free involvement. Your share stays while the rest would be for myself and my colleagues for investment purposes in your Country. We have agreed that the funds will be shared thus: - 1. 25% of the money will go to you for acting as the beneficiary of the funds 2. 10% will be set aside, for any incidental expenses that may be incurred in the course of this transaction. 3. 65% shall be for my partners and I as the originators of this transaction. If this proposal is OK by you and you do not wish to take undue advantage of the trust bestowed on you and your Company, then kindly get to me immediately via Tel# 234 - 1 - 775-6370 and Fax# 234 - 1 - 759-3655, furnishing me with your confidential telephone, fax numbers and bank particulars so that I can use these information to apply for the release and subsequent transfer of the funds in your favour. If you have a contrary opinion to our proposal, please keep it highly confidential. Thank you in advance for your anticipated co-operation. Yours faithfully, BASSEY NDIOKHO (Mr.) From lannet@lannet.com.au Thu Jan 3 16:54:21 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 02:54:21 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] ASSISTANCE In-Reply-To: <200201030628.g036S7723920@web.anu.edu.au> Message-ID: You have to hand it to the Nigerian scammer; there stories are always different, the method of the victims demise is always varied, and they never give up trying. On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, BASSEY NDIOKHO (Mr.) wrote: > > MR. BASSEY NDIOKHO. > > > Tel# 234 -1-775-6370 > Fax# 234 -1-759-3655 > > ATTN: PRESIDENT/CEO. > > Sir, > REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Thu Jan 3 22:01:35 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:01:35 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:NewsScan Daily, 3 January 2002 ("Above The Fold") - - - - - THE WEB RUNS ON LOVE, NOT GREED Wired magazine co-founder Kevin Kelly says that rather than moping over last year's dot-com debacle, we should rejoice over what we have -- a Web that features more than three billion public Web pages chock full of content, which is freely offered as a gift to the world. "As the Internet continues to expand in volume and diversity, only a relatively small percent of its total mass will be money-making. The rest will be created and maintained out of passion, enthusiasm, a sense of civic obligation, or simply on the faith that it may later provide some economic use. High-profile portal sites like Yahoo and AOL will continue to consolidate and demand our attention (and maybe make some money), while millions of smaller sites and hundreds of millions of users do the heavy work of creating content that is used and linked. These will be given away as gifts to the world." (Wall Street Journal 3 Jan 2002) http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB1010022759592449440.htm (sub req'd) -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Thu Jan 3 23:17:32 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:17:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >- - - - - >THE WEB RUNS ON LOVE, NOT GREED >Wired magazine co-founder Kevin Kelly says that rather than moping over >last year's dot-com debacle, we should rejoice over what we have -- a Web >that features more than three billion public Web pages chock full of >content, which is freely offered as a gift to the world. ... >(Wall Street Journal 3 Jan 2002) Kelly believes in the dictum 'If you write enough, some of it *must* be true'. Contrast the homilies above with his cock-eyed article from March 1997: Kiss your browser goodbye: The radical future of media beyond the Web http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.03/ff_push_pr.html ... Sure, we'll always have Web pages. We still have postcards and telegrams, don't we? But the center of interactive media - increasingly, the center of gravity of all media - is moving to a post-HTML environment, a world way past a Web dominated by the page, beyond streamed audio and video, and fast into a land of push-pull, active objects, virtual space, and ambient broadcasting. You might not want to believe us, but a place where you can kiss your Web browser goodbye. No, the 150 million Web pages now in existence won't disappear. They'll only proliferate, and at an increasing rate worldwide. We can expect a billion Web pages by 2000. Some of them will even be worth reading. But superseding those billion pages will be a zillion nonpage items of information and entertainment. Think video. Think text flickering over your walls. Think games at work. Think anything where a staid, link-based browser is useless. ... -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Fellow Department of Computer Science The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 AUSTRALIA Information Sciences Building Room 211 Tel: +61 2 6125 3666 From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Jan 4 00:41:27 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:41:27 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed References: Message-ID: <3C34EC27.126B5D5A@praxis.com.au> Roger Clarke wrote: > Contrast the homilies above with his cock-eyed article from March 1997: .... > Think video. Think text flickering > over your walls. Think games at work. Think anything where a staid, > link-based browser is useless. Think I'm going to be ill. (This person wrote for Ab Fab, right?) Top of the New Year to all you linkoids. -rick -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited Let he who takes the plunge remember to return it by Tuesday. From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Fri Jan 4 01:19:53 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:19:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020104103054.00b30830@ems.rmit.edu.au> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment another aspect: from: Communications-related Headlines for 1/3/02 -------------------------------------------------------------- COMMUNICATIONS-RELATED HEADLINES for January 3, 2002 INTERNET Total Number Of Internet Addresses Shrinks - Study (WP) BROADCASTING EchoStar Says it Won't Pay 'Hush Money' to Win Disney Support for Merger (WP) New XM Satellite Service Offers More Radio Channels for Drivers (WSJ) WIRELESS FCC Set to Expand Wireless Frontier (USA) INTERNET TOTAL NUMBER OF INTERNET ADDRESSES SHRINKS - STUDY Issue: Internet The total number of Internet addresses worldwide fell in December for only the second time in nearly six years, according to a survey by Netcraft. The fall has been put down to a drop in the practice of domain name speculation. Netcraft also predicted that the drop off in domain-name speculation would boost the percentage of Internet addresses that are "active" at any given time on the Web. Former ICANN President Mike Roberts said that during his tenure with the organization that manages the Internet's addressing system, no more than two-thirds of all registered domain names were being actively used at any time. [SOURCE: Washington Post, AUTHOR: David McGuire (Newsbytes.com)] (http://www.washtech.com/news/netarch/14421-1.html) Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/88e77f06/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From jmorris@intercode.com.au Fri Jan 4 02:25:59 2002 From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:25:59 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20020104103054.00b30830@ems.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Karin Geiselhart wrote: > another aspect: > > from: Communications-related Headlines for 1/3/02 > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMUNICATIONS-RELATED HEADLINES for January 3, 2002 > INTERNET > Total Number Of Internet Addresses Shrinks - Study (WP) > And another: There's an article from The Age which reports that Internet use (in Australia) is still rising: http://www.it.mycareer.com.au/breaking/2002/01/04/FFXS8OLU0WC.html The total number of ISPs fell by 16% over the year to September 30 2001, while the total number of "users" increased by 11%. - James -- James Morris From geert@desk.nl Fri Jan 4 03:45:44 2002 From: geert@desk.nl (geert lovink) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:45:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed References: Message-ID: <013801c194c9$ed18fe20$b1de3dca@geert> > THE WEB RUNS ON LOVE, NOT GREED > Wired magazine co-founder Kevin Kelly says that rather than moping over > last year's dot-com debacle, we should rejoice over what we have -- a Web > that features more than three billion public Web pages chock full of > content, which is freely offered as a gift to the world. Sure, Kevin Kelly and others who drove the dotcoms into desastrous bankrupcies would very much like us to forget their personal role (or should I say responsability) into the New Economy craze and the following 'carnage' of tech stocks. Kelly was one of the main promoters of the 'get greedy, get their first' mentality and has been trying to deny this role for a while now. But someone talked up the stocks, that didn't happen all by itself. Journalists were one of 'guilty' parties, so were numerous consultants who all profitted from the bubble. As did Kelly. Why is there such a reluctance to reconstruct what happened in the 1994-2000 period amongst these Internet gurus? Like they always have, they wanna rush into yet another future. This time it's based on 'love'. Remember Kelly is born again Christian... Wanna save your soul? Geert From p.hughes@latrobe.edu.au Fri Jan 4 03:50:40 2002 From: p.hughes@latrobe.edu.au (Peter Hughes) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:50:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ASSISTANCE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Howard, What I really love tho' is the request for absolute confidentiality in a message spammed to an audience of unknown, but obviously large dimensions! All the best for a happy and peaceful New Year, P. -------------------------------------------- (Dr) Peter Hughes Screening the past. An international, refereed electronic journal of visual media and history: http://www.latrobe.edu.au/screeningthepast From bobb@alt.net Fri Jan 4 13:40:45 2002 From: bobb@alt.net (Bob Bain) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:40:45 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Handling pop-ups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:40:17 +1100, Tony Healy wrote: >> .. produces a seemingly endless stream of pop up's > >Pop-ups and many other cute tricks can be eliminated by turning off >javascript or, in Internet Explorer, active scripting. >It's possible to do this without hampering banking and other nominated >sites, in IE at least. This is done by putting those sites in IE's Trusted >group. Opera 6 has a simple selection in it's preferences. "Disallow pop-ups". This simple selection was enough to encourage me to pay $15 for an upgrade from Version 5.11. Thanks to others as well.... -------- Bob Bain Sydney Australia bobb@alt.net From rw@firstpr.com.au Fri Jan 4 13:25:45 2002 From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 23:25:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Handling pop-ups - Mozilla 0.9.7 References: Message-ID: <3C359F48.7269DB32@firstpr.com.au> Bob Bain wrote: > Opera 6 has a simple selection in it's preferences. "Disallow > pop-ups". This simple selection was enough to encourage me to pay > $15 for an upgrade from Version 5.11. Mozilla 0.9.7 apparently has the ability to disable popups without disabling the rest of Javascript: http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla0.9.7/ Mozilla has a new advanced preference panel for fine-grained JavaScript control. For instance, you can disallow pop up and pop-under windows without turning off JavaScript altogether. While I use Mozilla Composer for HTML editing, it has many maddening bugs, but I find it worth it. Unfortunately it does not have a spell checker either. I would use it as a web browser, but I prefer to use Netscape 4.77 because I find its Messenger email system works fine. Mozilla's Messenger is relatively complete (except for having no spellchecker), but a long-standing bug (April 2000) with double-clicking a folder makes me not want to use it. This action opens the folder in a new window OK, but the current window switches to the folder too - that would drive me bonkers. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35389 - Robin From stephen@melbpc.org.au Fri Jan 4 17:10:47 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 03:10:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] IT: Top Pillar of China's Economy Message-ID: <200201041611.DAA03662@newemu.melbpc.org.au> Hi all .. Here's interesting statistics on China's rapidly growing 'information industry' .. -- IT: Top Pillar of China's Economy Author: JIANG CHEN China's information industry showed rapid growth last year. By the end of November, the number of telephone users in the country reached 317 million ... Information products such as [telephone] handsets and computers have become "hot" items. The information industry has become the top contributor to the national economy. And the industry boom is expected to continue, fueled by the strong demand for information-related products. According to statistics from the Ministry of Information Industry (MII), fixed asset investment in the country's telecoms industry reached 197.9 billion yuan (US$23 billion) between January and November last year, up 54 per cent over the same period in 2000 ... (Estimated population of China 1,281,166,744 ) -- Cheers all .. Stephen Loosley email@stephen.ws From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Fri Jan 4 23:19:45 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:19:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet article on better spam legislation Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020105091735.0206a760@pop.primenet.com> Linkers, If anyone is hopeful that we may get spam control laws at some point, the article by David Berlind at ZDNET includes some good specifics and improvements over the non-passed US legislation at: http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2834534,00.html Un-spam: The greatest gift of all He points out why current opt out doesn't work and how specifics in a law might address the shortcomings. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From observatory-is@unesco.org Sat Jan 5 00:50:47 2002 From: observatory-is@unesco.org (by way of Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:50:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] UNESCO Observatory on the Information Society Newsletter - No 117 - January 04, 2002 Message-ID: ------------------------------------------------------------------- UNESCO OBSERVATORY ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY http://www.unesco.org/webworld/observatory -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsletter - No 117 - January 04, 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Briefs selection (below), is ordered into the major themes of the Observatory: - Action Plans and Policies - Privacy and Confidentiallity - Content Regulation - Access to Public Domain -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Action Plans, Policies: international, regional and national levels [APA, EGO - 04.01.2002] India To Give Serious Look At e-Governance (Asia.internet) The Planning Commission of India has said that if the whole country is to benefit with a reasonably uniform pace of growth, and to establish a Government-to-citizen interface, a more detailed look has to be given to the whole concept of e-governance. The working group on convergence and e-governance of the Planning Commission has also recommended... http://asia.internet.com/asia-news/article/0,3916,161_947701,00.html [APA, INF - 04.01.2002] Railways Ministry to complete fibre optic backbone in 2002 (Europemedia.net) Russia's First Deputy Railways Minister, Alexander Misharin, has said that a further Rbl6bn ($196.9m) will be invested this year to complete the Railways Ministry's fibre optic backbone. According to Misharin, the ministry has already laid 43,000km of fibre, which will increase to 48,000km by the end of the year. http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=7503 [APA, ACC - 03.01.2002] Hong Kong Govt Readies More Free Internet Centers (Newsbytes) The Hong Kong SAR government has promised to open more cyber centers offering free Internet access to the general public. Hong Kong's Home Affairs Department (HAD) envisages at least one "cyber center" in each of Hong Kong's 18 districts, providing nationwide coverage. The centers aim to provide the community, especially the elderly, women and new arrivals, with access to IT and Internet training and facilities. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173313.html [EUR, ECO - 02.01.2002] Liikanen calls for ICT boost for SMEs (Europemedia.net) Further investment in information and communication technologies (ICT) and innovation is the needed to boost the fortunes of SMEs, according to Enterprise and Information society Commissioner, Erkki Liikanen. In a speech to the European Parliament's SME Intergroup on the 'State of play of enterprise policy issues' on 18 December, Commissioner Liikanen said that SMEs... http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=7466 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Privacy & Confidentiality: transborder privacy, global e-commerce, cryptography [CRY - 04.01.2002] AIM hole could let worms wriggle in (Asia.cnet) AOL Time Warner on Wednesday pledged to close a security hole in its instant messenger application that experts say could provide wiggle room for a widespread and destructive worm. AOL Time Warner said it would implement a server-side fix--meaning people will not have to download the patch--by week's end. http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/security/0,39001150,39008737,00.htm [ECO, PRI - 04.01.2002] Popular file-swap programs had Trojan horse (IDG.net) Three popular file-swap programs for some time came with third-party "spyware" software that was installed even if the user opted not to, the software makers admitted this week. KaZaA, Grokster and LimeWire, free peer-to-peer (P-to-P) applications used by millions for exchanging files on the Internet, at one point came with a program called ClickTillUWin, a client for an online lottery. This client software contains a Trojan horse program that sends information to its maker, several vendors of antivirus software have warned. http://www.idg.net/ic_784921_1794_9-10000.html [CRY, CRM - 03.01.2002] Writing a Security Wish List (IDG.net) Whereas 2001 be remembered as a year marked by an exhausting string of virus attacks and cyberterrorism fears sparked by the events of September 11, security experts predict that computer security in 2002 will shift away from perimeter defenses in favor of internal access control and authentication management. "Physical access, who you are, and [whether or not] you are allowed... http://www.idg.net/ic_784617_1794_9-10000.html [ECO - 03.01.2002] India becoming world's back office (Asia.cnet) The chattering young adults, many dressed in Western-style casual clothes, exit a train station in a northern Bombay suburb and look like they should be heading for a college campus. But it is late at night, and they are making their way to a plush office complex nearby. http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/industry/0,39001143,39008473,00.htm [ECO - 03.01.2002] Attacks Spark Interest In Telecommuting (Newsbytes) Unexpected crises such as those that occurred Sept. 11 have given yet another impetus to advocates of telecommuting. The practice of working from home while being wired into the office has long been a favorite among many workers and groups seeking to cut down on such transportation problems as traffic congestion. Most managers, however, remain wary of the idea. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/173290.html [CRY, CRM - 02.01.2002] Hacker boys from Brazil (BBCnews) Brazil boasts some of the most active hackers in the world. An army of schoolchildren is flexing its information technology muscles, bringing company sites to their knees. Brazil's sites are some of the most hacked in the world. Last year, the number of hacked sites increased 10 times. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1723000/1723356.stm [ECO - 02.01.2002] Flocking to the Web for last-minute gifts (Cnet) Holiday shoppers are clicking for last-minute gifts and bargains in record numbers this year, and online merchants are pulling out all the stops to keep orders coming until the 11th hour. Popular online merchants such as Amazon.com, BestBuy.com, eBay and Walmart.com say traffic on their sites has been much higher this year in the last two weeks of the season... http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-8254546.html?tag=cd_mh [PRI - 02.01.2002] Privacy special report: All eyes on you (ZDnet) One of the most contentious and debated topics of the information age has been that of privacy. While the thought of an all-seeing, all-knowing Big Brother has had computer users shaking in their boots for many years, major technology developments in the past twelve months have brought the issue to a head. http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/ebusiness/story/0,2000024981,20262484,00.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Content Regulation: intellectual property rights, copyright, freedom of expression [CON, ECO - 04.01.2002] FTC Puts Halt To Site's Cancer-Cure Claims (Newsbytes) The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has ordered a Web site that specializes in selling herbal and non-traditional remedies to stop touting one of its products as a cure for cancer. Western Herb and Dietary Products agreed to stop posting online claims that a product called the "Zapper" could be used to cure cancer, AIDS, diabetes and a host of other diseases. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173327.html [CRM, CRY - 04.01.2002] Latest Hacker Target: Routers (NYahoo) Bored with initiating traffic-flooding attacks that take down Web servers, hackers are focusing on router vulnerabilities that could let them divert large amounts of traffic to Internet wastelands, security experts warn. The vulnerability lies in the Border Gateway Protocol, which translates routing tables from different vendors' equipment. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cmp/20011217/tc/inw20011217s0004_1.html [CRM, FRE, IPR - 03.01.2002] Freed Russian Software Programmer Returns Home (Yahoo) A Russian software programmer, freed in November after escaping prosecution under controversial U.S. copyright laws, returned home on Monday and praised the support he received from campaigners while in detention. Dmitry Sklyarov, 27, told NTV television after arriving at a Moscow airport... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011231/tc/russia_usa_sklyarov_dc_1.html [CRM - 02.01.2002] The Worst Internet Hoaxes (IDG.net) Communicating by e-mail seems safe and clean compared to the real world--no bad breath, no cauliflower ear, and no anthrax. But e-mail doesn't escape the clutches of con artists. Just because an e-mail message looks legitimate and plays upon our deeply felt hopes and fears doesn't mean it's true. http://www.idg.net/ic_780719_1794_9-10000.html [CRM, IPR - 02.01.2002] The Battle Against Software Piracy Rages On (AllAfrica.com) In today's digital economy, software is indispensable to every business, large and small and as result, the Business Software Alliance, BSA, and the World Intellectual Property Organisation, WIPO, at as recent Rabat, Morocco meeting vow to fight on to protect the rights of software developers Early this year, the International Planning and Reasearch Corporation, IPR, announced the completion of another year of analysis in an ongoing study... http://allafrica.com/stories/200112200085.html [IPR - 02.01.2002] Canada Readies Domain Dispute Procedures (Newsbytes) The organization responsible for Canada's ".ca" Internet address space is preparing for a 2002 launch of its process for sorting out disputes between trademark owners and domain-name holders they accuse of being cybersquatters. The Canadian Internet Registration Authority (CIRA) recently unveiled... http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/173207.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Universal Access - Public Domain: access for all, on-line governance, virtual libraries, multilingualism [ACC, IPR - 04.01.2002] Total Number Of Internet Addresses Shrinks - Study (Newsbytes) The total number of Internet addresses worldwide fell in December for only the second time in nearly six years, according to a survey by Netcraft. Netcraft, which has tracked Internet registrations and Web site activity since 1995, cited a fall-off in domain name speculation as the primary factor driving the decrease. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173336.html [EGO - 04.01.2002] Online tour for potential jurors (The Guardian) Jurors-to-be who feel daunted by the prospect of an impending court appearance can now quell their fears with a pre-trial visit via the internet. Those keen to prepare for their stint in the jury box can get a realistic idea of what to expect during their time in court by logging on to a website that guides them through the unfamiliar surroundings using pictures, sound and text. http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,627026,00.html [VIR - 04.01.2002] Distributing the Search for Cures (Wirednews) The latest in distributed computing projects is either very timely or very opportunistic, depending on your perspective. Sengent, a Boca Raton, Florida-based company, has launched its Drug Design and Optimization Lab (D2OL) client, and its first disease targets are anthrax and smallpox. http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,49334,00.html [EGO - 03.01.2002] 1901 census goes online (The Guardian) The public record (PRO) office today published an online version of the 1901 census, opening up records of 32.5m residents of Edwardian Britain, although thoroughly modern server problems blocked access to the material. The 1901 census lists the names, ages, addresses and mental health of British residents,... http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,626730,00.html [INF - 03.01.2002] Peer to peer: As the revolution recedes (Yahoo) Like the Internet itself, peer to peer is settling into a second, more prosaic stage following the bubble of excitement that seemed to stand the world on its head--if only for a moment. Peer-to-peer networks, in essence, provide a way to link PCs together without the need for powerful central server computers. When Napster, the best known peer-to-peer player, surged in popularity... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20020102/tc/peer_to_peer_as_the_revolution_recedes_1.html [INF - 03.01.2002] Sonera starts 2002 by opening 3G network (Europemedia.net) The beginning of 2002 saw the opening of Sonera's 3G network, in line with its licencing agreements. The test network covers four Finnish cities and is to be available for commercial use once UMTS (Universal Mobile Telecommunications Systems) handsets are available to consumers. The opening of Finland's 3G network, along with those of Norway and Sweden, puts the Scandinavian countries at the forefront of European 3G roll-out. http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=7490 [ACC - 02.01.2002] Internet to help homeless renew contact (BBCnews) A new initiative is being launched to give homeless people the chance to renew contact with friends and relatives this Christmas. The charity Crisis is operating an internet cafe with computers experts, who once slept rough themselves, on hand to advise on how to send an email to long-lost loved ones. The initiative goes online at an east London shelter on Sunday. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_1725000/1725793.stm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- UNESCO Observatory on the Information Society mirrors: Japan (by the United Nations University): http://mirror-japan.unesco.org/webworld/observatory/index.html United States (by the University of Nebraska): http://mirror-us.unesco.org/webworld/observatory/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, just visit: http://www.unesco.org/cgi-bin/webworld/portal_observatory/subscribe.cgi?action=unsubscribe&email=me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Sat Jan 5 01:30:27 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:30:27 +1100 Subject: [LINK] the closing of the online commons? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020105112810.00b26100@ems.rmit.edu.au> Please let me know if these forwards from Benton are redundant or a nuisance: >RISE OF INTERNET 'BORDERS' PROMPTS FEARS FOR WEB'S FUTURE >Issue: Internet >Governments and private businesses are increasingly try to draw boundaries >around what used to be a borderless Internet to deal with legal, commercial >and terrorism concerns. "It used to be that a person sitting in one place >could get or send information anywhere in the world," said Jack Goldsmith, a >professor of international law at the University of Chicago. "But now the >Internet is starting to act more like real space with all its limitations." >While new borders provide solutions to the vexing problem of how to resolve >the often-conflicting policies of the roughly 200 independent states of the >world on matters such as gambling, commerce, copyright and speech, critics >fear that the barriers will create an Internet that's balkanized. And civil >rights groups warn that freedom of speech will suffer, that the technology >will make it easier for oppressive governments to stifle nonconformist >viewpoints, and that people's privacy will be eroded, especially because >some technologies can pinpoint one's location. >[SOURCE: Washington Post, AUTHOR: Ariana Eunjung Cha] >(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59227-2002Jan3.html) > >... >TROLLING THE WEB FOR AFGHAN DEAD >Issue: Internet >Frustrated by the dearth of reports in the American media after the air >strikes began on Oct. 7, an American economics professor turned to the >Internet to read accounts from the front lines published in the foreign >press. Marc Herold, a professor at the University of New Hampshire, has been >searching the Internet for the last three month to compile figures on >civilian casualties in Afghanistan, using sources as disparate as the >radical Revolutionary Association of Women of Afghanistan and the BBC. >Herold's analysis, published on the independent news site cursor.org charges >that the U.S. military has killed more than 4,000 civilians in Afghanistan. >[SOURCE: Wired, AUTHOR: Julia Scheeres] >(http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,49475,00.html) Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Sat Jan 5 02:09:33 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:09:33 +1100 Subject: [LINK] http://www.onlinepolicy.org/ Message-ID: Linkers This site, http://www.onlinepolicy.org/ which deals with filtereing may have been mentioned before but it was new to me. Tony -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Sat Jan 5 03:40:49 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:40:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Hackers discover hole in AOL's instant messenger Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, January 4, 2002 - - - - - HACKERS DISCOVER HOLE IN AOL'S INSTANT MESSENGER America Online has verified that an international group of hackers has exploited a buffer-overflow security flaw in its Instant Messenger program that enables them to commandeer computers. Only users of the Windows version are threatened, but there are more than 100 million users of that version. AOL's Andrew Weinstein said that the company has already developed a remedy that will be implemented within the next few days. Utah college student and hacker group founder Matt Conover advised Instant Messenger users only to accept messages from those on their "Buddy Lists." (Wall Street Journal, 3 January 2002) -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From art8246@korea.com Sat Jan 5 05:32:07 2002 From: art8246@korea.com (ĀĖĮüđÎ) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:32:07 +0900 Subject: [LINK] žąđčīÔ ÁĶ°Ą °ĄĀÔĮØ ĀÖī ÁõąĮŧįĀĖÆŪĀÔīÏīŲ. Message-ID: <200201050431.g054Vi712012@web.anu.edu.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/08ade6a5/attachment.htm From bobb@alt.net Sat Jan 5 07:45:58 2002 From: bobb@alt.net (Bob Bain) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:45:58 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Handling pop-ups - Mozilla 0.9.7 In-Reply-To: <3C359F48.7269DB32@firstpr.com.au> References: <3C359F48.7269DB32@firstpr.com.au> Message-ID: <008d3ugg8ppalih126u63c4bkd9cl3o5nq@4ax.com> On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 23:25:45 +1100, Robin Whittle wrote: >Bob Bain wrote: > >> Opera 6 has a simple selection in it's preferences. "Disallow >> pop-ups". This simple selection was enough to encourage me to pay >> $15 for an upgrade from Version 5.11. > >Mozilla 0.9.7 apparently has the ability to disable popups without >disabling the rest of Javascript: Yes. From what I can see this is exactly what Opera 6.0 does. Hit F12 for a simple menu of selections and select "Refuse Pop-up Windows". This doesn't disable Javascript as far as I know. BTW: I noticed an "interesting" book in Dymocks yesterday entitled "How to create really annoying Web Pages" (or similar). This explains how to really frustrate a user with a whole variety of techniques. Unfortunately it was $55 (beyond my budget). -------- Bob Bain Sydney Australia bobb@alt.net From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Sat Jan 5 06:54:34 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:54:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] the closing of the online commons? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20020105112810.00b26100@ems.rmit.edu.au> References: <4.3.2.7.1.20020105112810.00b26100@ems.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: Karin Geiselhart : >Please let me know if these forwards from Benton are redundant or a nuisance: > >>RISE OF INTERNET 'BORDERS' PROMPTS FEARS FOR WEB'S FUTURE >>[SOURCE: Washington Post, AUTHOR: Ariana Eunjung Cha] >>(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59227-2002Jan3.html) ... Strewth, they're catching up with me. I only published that in mid-99: http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/II/DarkAges.html and re-furbished and extended it in mid-01: http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/II/PGPR01.html Seriously though: - not a great deal like the above has appeared on link; and - there's been nothing at all on the theme of 'Afghans don't even qualify as collateral damage, as US media adopt frantically bellicose approach and totally overlook civilian casualties'. And I for one have no idea who Benton is (and your post didn't tell us). Happy New Year! ... Roger -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Fellow Department of Computer Science The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 AUSTRALIA Information Sciences Building Room 211 Tel: +61 2 6125 3666 From OrderMusic@eudoramail.com Sat Jan 5 21:38:58 2002 From: OrderMusic@eudoramail.com (OrderMusic@eudoramail.com) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 02:38:58 -1800 Subject: [LINK] $10 off CD's , DVD's HIG Message-ID: <000059fa7557$00001680$00000795@mx1.eudoramail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/ecaf8e65/attachment.htm From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Sat Jan 5 23:37:59 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 09:37:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] http://www.onlinepolicy.org/ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020106092753.02077340@pop.primenet.com> At 12:09 PM 5/01/02 +1100, Tony Barry wrote: >This site, http://www.onlinepolicy.org/ which deals with filtereing may >have been mentioned before but it was new to me. Thanks for posting that site, Tony. They also have sub-sections on specific issues. Online Privacy, http://www.onlinepolicy.org/privacy.htm , lists media stories and other web sources. Other issues are online access, digital defamation, digital divide, online community, diversity of content [interesting concept! unfortunately there isn't anything in it], online commercialism, and electronic electorate. Several concepts there remind me of Linker interests. They also provide: Email List Hosting, Website Hosting, and Domain Registration Request Form Please use this form to request free email list hosting, website hosting, and domain registration for any individual or group underrepresented, underserved, or facing unfair bias, discrimination, or defamation online. Walking the talk! Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Sun Jan 6 08:33:38 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 17:33:38 +1000 Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68452@EXCHANGE_AU> Geert, >But someone talked up the stocks, that didn't happen all by itself. >Journalists were one of 'guilty' parties, so were numerous consultants who >all profitted from the bubble. As did Kelly. The reason that Kelly is able to get away with reconstructing the past is that many journalists want to forget their own roles in promoting fraudulent investments. Should anybody ask someone like Kelly hard questions, he can probably look them in the eye and say "yeah, but you didn't complain about the IPOs when they were on the way up and you were on the share register, did you?" Richard -----Original Message----- From: geert lovink To: link Sent: 1/4/02 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed > THE WEB RUNS ON LOVE, NOT GREED > Wired magazine co-founder Kevin Kelly says that rather than moping over > last year's dot-com debacle, we should rejoice over what we have -- a Web > that features more than three billion public Web pages chock full of > content, which is freely offered as a gift to the world. Sure, Kevin Kelly and others who drove the dotcoms into desastrous bankrupcies would very much like us to forget their personal role (or should I say responsability) into the New Economy craze and the following 'carnage' of tech stocks. Kelly was one of the main promoters of the 'get greedy, get their first' mentality and has been trying to deny this role for a while now. But someone talked up the stocks, that didn't happen all by itself. Journalists were one of 'guilty' parties, so were numerous consultants who all profitted from the bubble. As did Kelly. Why is there such a reluctance to reconstruct what happened in the 1994-2000 period amongst these Internet gurus? Like they always have, they wanna rush into yet another future. This time it's based on 'love'. Remember Kelly is born again Christian... Wanna save your soul? Geert From Liddy.Nevile@motile.net Sun Jan 6 14:13:45 2002 From: Liddy.Nevile@motile.net (Liddy Nevile) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 00:13:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] WWW2002 Registration Now Available! Message-ID: Forwarded message. To: WWW2002-ANNOUNCE mailing list Aloha, and best wishes for the new year from the WWW2002 organizers at the University of Hawaii, Pacific Telecommunications Council and IW3C2 along with our conference partners, the W3C, IFIP and WOW! WWW2002 is fast approaching and we trust that you have already reserved 7-11 May to join us in Hawaii for 5 days filled with ideas, information, networking and fun. The New Year is a great time to check out the new additions to our website at: http://www2002.org * Tutorial and Workshop details are now online * Conference registration is now open * Hotel reservations are now available The WWW2002 Program Committee has announced a record number of paper submittals this year, so you can be sure the technical content of the world's premiere web conference will be better than ever. And while the refereed paper and some alternate track submittals are now closed, there are still opportunities to participate actively in WWW2002. Poster submissions are invited until 15 January at: http://www2002.org/cfp-posters.html You can propose sessions for the Vendors Track until March at: http://www2002.org/cfp-vendor.html The Practice and Experience track is open until February at: http://www2002.org/cfp-practice.html The Telehealth Track is open until 31 January at: http://www2002.org/cfp-telehealth.html And ideas for Developers Day sessions can still be sent to: devday@www2002.org We look forward to seeing you here in Hawaii! The WWW2002 Ohana (family) ************************************************************************** From geert@desk.nl Sun Jan 6 22:37:59 2002 From: geert@desk.nl (geert lovink) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:37:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The web runs on love, not greed References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68452@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <022e01c196fa$6cfc9ed0$97de3dca@geert> From: "Chirgwin, Richard" > The reason that Kelly is able to get away with reconstructing the past is > that many journalists want to forget their own roles in promoting fraudulent > investments. Should anybody ask someone like Kelly hard questions, he can > probably look them in the eye and say "yeah, but you didn't complain about > the IPOs when they were on the way up and you were on the share register, > did you?" Perhaps. But he could never have said that to me because he knows I was not in that business. I don't think it is an issue of complaining--back then or right now. We talking here about economic models for the Net. It's time to analyse the dotcom model, not to personalize it. The VC driven startup-IPO-sellout model is a very specific one. It is one in which financers are driving the entreprise, not the entrepreneurs and employees. It has short term thinking, is not interested in research or even profit. The fraudulent part is not a symptom or a few exceptions but goes to the heart of the whole scheme. I would love to see a general investigation into the accountancy and consultancy firms which would go beyond the individual case of HiH and One.Tel. it could look into the role of PwC, accenture and others into the dotcom schemes. With the banks and some ad agencies they have been the big profit takers of dotcom.mania, fully aware that their risk was minimal or none. They took their exuberant consultancy rates and ran. Same with banks who earned a fortunes from all these IPOs. If there is going to be a sustainable Internet economy we have to deal with the dotcom past. I am not interested to punish those who participated in the maffia practices (changing figures, not giving acurate information to the press and shareholders etc. etc.). I am more interested in the future. For instance how business could relate to the digital commons in a better way as it has done so far. Geert From brd@austarmetro.com.au Mon Jan 7 04:12:02 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:12:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Public money, private code Message-ID: <3C391202.D20AAD3B@austarmetro.com.au> Public money, private code The drive to license academic research for profit is stifling the spread of software that could be of universal benefit. Salon.com By Jeffrey Benner Jan. 4, 2002 http://salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/index.html Would the creation of the Internet be allowed to happen today? The networked society we live in is in large part a gift from the University of California to the world. In the 1980s, computer scientists at Berkeley working under contract for the Defense Department created an improved version of the Unix operating system, complete with a networking protocol called the TCP/IP stack. Available for a nominal fee, the operating system and network protocol grew popular with universities and became the standard for the military's Arpanet computer network. In 1992, Berkeley released its version of Unix and TCP/IP to the public as open-source code, and the combination quickly became the backbone of a network so vast that people started to call it, simply, "the Internet." Many would regard giving the Internet to the world as a benevolent act fitting for one of the world's great public universities. But Bill Hoskins, who is currently in charge of protecting the intellectual property produced at U.C. Berkeley, thinks it must have been a mistake. "Whoever released the code for the Internet probably didn't understand what they were doing," he says. Had his predecessors understood how huge the Internet would turn out to be, Hoskins figures, they would surely have licensed the protocols, sold the rights to a corporation and collected a royalty for the U.C. Regents on Internet usage years into the future. It is the kind of deal his department, the Office of Technology Licensing, cuts all the time. Hoskins' "privatize it" attitude has become the norm among administrators at many universities and federal labs across the country. As a result, computer-science professors and researchers who want to release their work to the public as open-source software often face an uphill battle. Some familiar with the situation say the problem is that universities and federal research labs have become more interested in making money than serving the public interest. Larry Smarr, a professor of computer science at U.C. San Diego and one of the country's top experts on supercomputing, is one of them. As former director of the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois, where the original Mosaic Web browser was created, he's quite familiar with both sides of the debate. "Some universities are dead set against giving [software code] away," says Smarr. "But I don't think universities should be in the moneymaking business. They ought to be in the changing-the-world business, and open source is a great vehicle for changing the world." page 2 http://salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/index1.html page 3 http://salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/index2.html -- Aye, ’tis well enough for a servant to be bred at an University. But the education is a little too pedantic for a gentleman. -- William Congreve, Love for Love (1695) Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From at@ah.net Mon Jan 7 04:30:20 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:30:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> I'd just like to say farewell to everyone. It's been a long hard ten years fighting with anything from Telstra, to the Government and Integral and the Ombudsman, but as of tomorrow, due to Integrals negligence in February last year and their inability to resolve the compensation claim, I won't have any electricity for my wife and our two kids (1 and 3.) They are disconnecting us for not paying the difference between the similar usage last year and what is now a two to three times higher bill this year, caused by the damage Integral did last year. You won't be able to read the web site after tomorrow, it's on my power here, but you can catch up quickly at http://anti.integral.inoz.com/ It seems finally someone has beat me. I can't back down, I have no funds to back down with, even if I wanted to pay the $600, due to the endless damaged equipment we've lost a lot of clients. So ce-la-vi as they say. Goliath has finally stomped on this little David and I have to admit, I'm not too unhappy about it. There are people a lot worse off in the world, we'll just have to learn how to live without power! Good luck to everyone stuck in the dredge of the evil Internet, good luck with the new censorships legislation, it's going to get worse yet, but I won't be around to badger politicians and others to try and force the level down a bit. It's been a fun part of my life, but that's all coming to an end. Is there where I sign it "David, not fast enough with the slingshot or the stone?" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |E=MC2 (Integral Energy = Mad Consumers Squared) Been burnt by your Electricity provider? Check out Anti Integral http://anti.integral.inoz.com/ Lodge an online complaint today! http://integral.sux.com/ Phone (02) 8825 6119 From rick@praxis.com.au Mon Jan 7 05:27:20 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:27:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> Message-ID: <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Adam Todd wrote: > I'd just like to say farewell to everyone. Sounds like a repeat of an email from Mr Todd oh, about a year ago now. > It's been a fun part of my life, but that's all coming to an end. > Is there where I sign it "David, not fast enough with the slingshot or the > stone?" And this is relevant to Link because ... ? -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From Evan.ARTHUR@dest.gov.au Mon Jan 7 06:14:56 2002 From: Evan.ARTHUR@dest.gov.au (ARTHUR,Evan) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:14:56 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] auDA to auction rare domain names Message-ID: <200201070514.g075Euo08582@name-ext.deetya.gov.au> Ian Johnston wrote: Hopefully, the users of these Closed 2LDs will also meet a fair share of the cost of running auDA (NB: a possibly public policy issue). Under the current auDA regulatory regime, the cost appears to have been met mainly by com.au licence holders. Discussions are currently occurring between auDA and representatives of the education and training sector on the issue of the sector's contribution to the costs of operating .au. Proposals for contributing to these costs and how to fund any such contribution will be considered via the consultation processes outlined at http://www.aictec.edu.au/priorities/domain.htm#wg On the issue of who has met costs to date, Ian would be aware that costs have been met by a wide range of players, including some key players in the education and training sector. It would be an invidious task to determine who has been subsidising whom. Evan Arthur Assistant Secretary Innovation and Quality Group Higher Education Division Department of Education, Science and Training Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and any attached files may be confidential information, and may also be the subject of legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying of this e-mail is unauthorised. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Jan 7 06:45:30 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:45:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. In-Reply-To: <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: Linkers Many of us think of link as a community. In relation to Adam Todd At 3:27 PM +1100 7/1/02, Rick Welykochy wrote: >And this is relevant to Link because ... ? Because, despite the irritation he caused some (if not many! :), Adam is/was part of our community, and because of that I wish him good luck and a new year which gets better than its start. We talk of networked communities but we must remember that for communities to be enriched and grow they are founded, not in uniformity, but diversity. Within physical communities, repression and restraint are available, if not always used, to ensure that the views of the elite, or even the majority prevails. Tolerance and reason are often preached but they are lost in the wind of opinion. But in a successful online community, I think that it is tolerance and reason that are the things that make the community succeed. IMHO Tony -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Jan 7 08:17:06 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:17:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] IT in Australia: =?iso-8859-1?Q?What=EDs?= in store in 2002? Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia Daily Update -- Monday, January 7, 2002. - - - - - - IT in Australia: Whatís in store in 2002? As the year is waking up from its NYE celebrations, rubbing its eyes and reaching for the Berocca, the moment has come to return to that fine tradition of predicting what the next 12 months hold in store. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167123 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From adam@todd.inoz.com Mon Jan 7 10:29:23 2002 From: adam@todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:29:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] NSW Parliament Web Site - gone ... Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107202858.01a6a020@pop> Why doesn't this surprise me? While trying to retrieve the URL: http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/ The following error was encountered: · ERROR 312 -- Cannot connect to the server ** Remember: Email is for Email, FTP is for transfer of files. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Todd http://adamtodd.ah.net Business Development, Technology, Domain Registration and Network Advisory Phone +61 2 8825 6122 - Todd Corporation http://www.todd.inoz.com Fax +61 2 8825 6199 - AHNET http://www.ah.net - AURSC http://www.aursc.ah.net Chair IRSC (http://www.irsc.ah.net) Worlds 2nd Largest Root Server Network! Baby AJ Kidnapped by NSW Government Sept 98 - See http://docs.ajtodd.com PROUD FATHER of #2 son BJ Todd born 9:33 AM 5 Mar 2000! 8lb 12 oz!!!! Feature Film producer/director http://iconoclast.inoz.com/tjps/ Telstra Reseller and Telstra Convey Member (Not an Employee of Telstra) Get the DOMAIN NAME HANDBOOK NOW http://www.domainhandbook.com From patrick@quad.net.au Mon Jan 7 21:14:45 2002 From: patrick@quad.net.au (Patrick Corliss) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:14:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop><3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <01a801c197b7$f3e401a0$b33efea9@hamza> Hi Tony > Within physical communities, repression and restraint are available, > if not always used, to ensure that the views of the elite, or even > the majority prevails. Tolerance and reason are often preached but > they are lost in the wind of opinion. But in a successful online > community, I think that it is tolerance and reason that are the > things that make the community succeed. When I read your post, I immediately agreed with your sentiments. In fact, my own personality oozes tolerance and compassion. I also have a love of, and respect for, diversity. However, having had my own experiences with Adam Todd's brand of zany idiocy, I sometimes think that poitical correctness needs to be balanced with a touch of practical reality. So I also welcome those who do not accept self-serving statements unquestioningly. Sorry if that sounds insensitive :-) Best regards Patrick Corliss From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Mon Jan 7 23:08:26 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:08:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Public money, private code In-Reply-To: <3C391202.D20AAD3B@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020108085023.020b0ec0@pop.primenet.com> At 02:12 PM 7/01/02 +1100, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: >Hoskins' "privatize it" attitude has become the norm among administrators >at many universities and federal labs across the country. As a result, >computer-science professors and researchers who want to release their work >to the public as open-source software often face an uphill battle. This is something that has been a worry for awhile and a difference I think I've observed in Australia from the old US approach. If I recall correctly, in the 'old' days, the US government funded lots of research grants and contracts, companies, too [grants being more to support researcher or developer initiated projects, hence capitalising on the creativity of the individual/team; contracts being specified by the funding agency itself to meet a specific need identified by the funder]. The ownership of the outcome was generally held to be public property as it was funded by public money. Public money, i.e. tax dollars, entitled the public to access the outcome for further use without much more than the additional cost of access, e.g. photocopying, printing, etc. Therefore, when we developed something funded in our institution, either by external federal money or internal budget funds, most of that was open for free distribution, particularly within our state. We had a very generous, sharing position, rather than a revenue raising position, with maybe marginal development cost recovery. In the late 1980s/90s, when the wall came down, the Eastern Block became less of a threat, and George Bush the First coined the phrase 'new world order', even the US Defence Department was encouraged to shift military technology developments into the general community through the Office of Technology Transfer. I remember sitting in a briefing where the DoD/OTT reps came and told us that we should get involved in this, that there were many new tools being released that may be of use to education, particularly in communications, some of their training stuff, etc. They were tasked to transfer to 'peaceful' applications what had been developed for military application. Not sure where that stands now. This shift to commercially funded research where the funding agency is NOT public, ie. government, has seemed to spill over into ALL non-internal budget activity with a view to ownership rather than scholarship, commercialisation over education and public good. And the situations where there is a mix of funding from both commercial and public sources makes it even more difficult to sort out - what is the public part of the exercise? If there are funds generated, should a share go back to public projects, not necessarily within the same developing organisation, e.g. into general funds for roads, health, education, etc? Lots more questions. I think the public, ie. taxpayer, has been dudded by a corporate welfare policy in many conservative governments where the creative groups, e.g. uni research programs, have been held to ransom to get any funding for their work. And as the article points out, what would have happened with the Internet if this current policy had been in place? Bill Gates would be much richer? There would be many more Bill Gates' subsidised by the public coffers? How do we influence a change back to commonwealth in this country - the Deakin view in a modern age? Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Jan 8 00:11:28 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:11:28 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Britain's Internet election Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020108101104.020a4da0@pop.primenet.com> Britain gears up for Internet elections Britain will be the world's first country to use the Internet for voting as part of radical changes to the political system, according to Robin Cook, the leader of the Commons. FULL REPORT http://theage.com.au/news/world/2002/01/08/FFXF39X45WC.html JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From brd@austarmetro.com.au Tue Jan 8 00:05:43 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:05:43 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Public money, private code References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020108085023.020b0ec0@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <3C3A29C7.38DF0783@austarmetro.com.au> There is an irony here in that one of the major issues that led to the American colonies deciding that they wanted to be independent of Britain was the introdution of the Stamp Act. The Stamp Act of January 1765 was a tax imposed on all kinds of paper in use, like various kinds of official documents used in court, harbors, land transactions, et cetera. The Act prescribed these documents had to be printed on paper carrying an official stamp [1]. This was seen as a tax on knowledge and information [2]. It's a pity that Americans don't seem to appreciate irony. [1] http://www.stjohnsprep.org/htdocs/sjp_tec/projects/internet/sact.htm [2] http://www.crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/talkingtotheworld.htm -- England and America are two countries divided by a common language -- George Bernard Shaw (supposedly) Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Tue Jan 8 00:23:22 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:23:22 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Communications-related Headlines for 1/7/02 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020108102204.00b27c60@ems.rmit.edu.au> this time I've kept the info about Benton: >Communications-related Headlines is a free daily online news service >provided by the Benton Foundation. It will keep you up to date on >important industry developments, policy issues, and other pertinent >communications-related news events. This service is available online >at (www.benton.org/News/). >-------------------------------------------------------------- > >COMMUNICATIONS-RELATED HEADLINES for January 7, 2002 > >INDUSTRY > The Battle of the Boxes: PC vs. TV (NYT) > No Dot-Com IPOs Last Year - Report (Washtech) > >DIGITAL DIVIDE > Computers for the People in Brazil (NYT) > > >INDUSTRY > >THE BATTLE OF THE BOXES: PC VS. TV >Issue: Technology, Consumer Electronics >This week marks the opening of two of the most anticipated technology >expositions: the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas and the Macworld >exhibition in San Francisco. The two events, in many ways, each highlight >contrasting visions of the future of consumer media. At the CES expo in Las >Vegas, WebTV co-founder Steve Perlman will debut his latest venture, the >Moxi Digital set-top box. This device is designed to be a comprehensive >wireless media server for the home that will offer high-speed Internet >access and play MP3 files, DVDs and CDs. In contrast, Macworld will serve as >the high-tech pulpit for Steve Jobs, Apple's founder and recently returned >CEO. Jobs sees consumer home entertainment devices converging around Apple's >Macintosh computers. Both Perlman and Jobs will be speaking before their >respective exhibitions later today, with Jobs expected to make a major >announcement regarding Apple's product line. Speculation about the new >product has run wild as of late, with guesses ranging from flat-panel iMac >computers to a so-called iWalk handheld computer. >[SOURCE: New York Times, AUTHOR: John Markoff] >(http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/07/technology/ebusiness/07GADG.html) >(Requires Registration) >-------------------------------------------------------------- >(c)Benton Foundation 2002. Redistribution of this email publication -- >both internally and externally -- is encouraged if it includes this message. > >-------------------------------------------------------------- > >Benton's Communications-related Headline Service is posted Monday through >Friday. The Headlines are highlights of news articles summarized by staff of >our Communications Policy Program (CPP) (www.benton.org/cpphome.html). > >They describe articles of interest to the work of the Foundation -- >primarily those covering long term trends and developments in >communications, technology, journalism, public service media, >regulation and philanthropy. While the summaries are factually accurate, >their often informal tone does not represent the tone of the original >articles. Headlines are compiled by Rachel Anderson (rachel@benton.org) >and Andy Carvin (andy@benton.org) -- we welcome your comments. > >The Benton Foundation works to realize the social benefits made >possible by the public interest use of communications. Bridging the worlds >of philanthropy, public policy, and community action, Benton seeks to shape >the emerging communications environment and to demonstrate the value of >communications for solving social problems. > >Other projects at Benton include: >Connect for Kids (www.connectforkids.org) >Digital Divide Network (www.digitaldividenetwork.org) >Oneworld US (www.oneworld.net/us) >Open Studio: The Arts Online (www.openstudio.org) >Sound Partners for Community Health (www.soundpartners.org) >To subscribe to other free Benton Foundation newsletters, visit: >(http://www.benton.org/Resources) Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From bpa@iss.net.au Tue Jan 8 00:53:25 2002 From: bpa@iss.net.au (Brenda Aynsley) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:23:25 +1030 Subject: [LINK] Britain's Internet election References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020108101104.020a4da0@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <3C3A34F5.46DFF8D7@iss.net.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > Britain gears up for Internet elections > Britain will be the world's first country to use the Internet for voting as am I just a complete cynic but my total reaction to this is "Harrumph we'll see - hype! hype! hype!" I'm starting to feel more and more like scrooge at christmas when asked to consider the uses of the Internet. cheers brenda -- ozbusinesspartners : helping you do better business -- Multimedia Production : Web Design and Implementation Training Development and Delivery : Technical Writing Project Management : Business Development Business Analysis : Business Communication via the 'Net -- Brenda Aynsley || http://www.ozbusinesspartners.com/ BA, DipSocSci(sociology), DipAppSci(computing), MACS, PCP Mobile:+61 (0) 412 662 988 From dlochrin@dot.net.au Tue Jan 8 00:51:59 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:51:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. In-Reply-To: References: <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020108105159.007a4100@mail.dot.net.au> Hear, Hear!! David At 04:45 PM 07-01-2002 +1100, Tony Barry wrote: >Linkers > >Many of us think of link as a community. > >In relation to Adam Todd At 3:27 PM +1100 7/1/02, Rick Welykochy wrote: >>And this is relevant to Link because ... ? > >Because, despite the irritation he caused some (if not many! :), Adam >is/was part of our community, and because of that I wish him good >luck and a new year which gets better than its start. > >We talk of networked communities but we must remember that for >communities to be enriched and grow they are founded, not in >uniformity, but diversity. > >Within physical communities, repression and restraint are available, >if not always used, to ensure that the views of the elite, or even >the majority prevails. Tolerance and reason are often preached but >they are lost in the wind of opinion. But in a successful online >community, I think that it is tolerance and reason that are the >things that make the community succeed. > >IMHO > >Tony >-- >phone +61 2 6241 7659 >mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au >http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html > ================================================= David Lochrin Networked Systems Consultancy Pty. Limited ABN 20 074 899 853 +61 2 9363 1094 (telephone) 9363 9622 (FAX) http://www.dot.net.au/~dlochrin PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= From mischief@optushome.com.au Tue Jan 8 00:05:45 2002 From: mischief@optushome.com.au (Ralph Wallis) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:05:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. In-Reply-To: ; from me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 04:45:30PM +1100 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <20020108100545.A8027@localhost> On Monday, 07 Jan 2002 at 16:45, Tony Barry wrote: > In relation to Adam Todd At 3:27 PM +1100 7/1/02, Rick Welykochy wrote: > >And this is relevant to Link because ... ? > > Because, despite the irritation he caused some (if not many! :), Adam > is/was part of our community, and because of that I wish him good > luck and a new year which gets better than its start. Adam attracts a lot of cynicism. He is a character. He is melodramatic. Between bushfires and wind damage, I have had 3 power outages of a day each in the last month. I didn't present them as grist for the link, and there was no discussion of whether I was missed, reviled, or ignored. Obviously, I made it back. and so will Adam. When he does, he will be greeted by some, teased by others, and ignored by a few. But he will be welcome. (Even Rick's comment quoted above invites continued discussion by Adam.) From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Tue Jan 8 01:23:42 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:23:42 +1100 Subject: Fwd: [LINK] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on E-Democracy/Online Voting Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020108112036.00b39ae0@ems.rmit.edu.au> I hesitated to forward this, but since it's 'on topic', here's more on the UK online voting, from Steven Clift's democracy list: By the way, Steve travels the world looking at email lists and e-democracy initiatives, and he said that LINK is the best mailing list he knows about internet and related issues. >Subject: [DW] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on E-Democracy/Online Voting >To: do-wire@tc.umn.edu > >*** Democracies Online Newswire - http://www.e-democracy.org/do *** > >Big interview in the Guardian today: >http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,628776,00.html > >Cook plans to make UK first to vote on internet > >Jackie Ashley >Monday January 7, 2002 >The Guardian > >Britain will become the first country in the world to use the >internet for voting, as part of radical changes to the political >system, Robin Cook, the leader of the Commons, has told the Guardian. > >In an interview, Mr Cook is scathing about the culture of parliament, >describing its procedures as antique, ludicrous, Dickensian and as >ritualised as 18th-century duelling. > >Mr Cook intends to "enfranchise" those who want to vote online as a >way of drawing back under-40s to the democratic process. Pilot >schemes for local elections begin in the spring, with a chance that >voting by internet could be in place for the next general election, >though Mr Cook admits that that is a "tough call". > >Among his other plans is the use of the web for daily feedback to >parliament on policy choices before MPs. He also confirms his >determination to press ahead with increased powers and greater >independence for select committees, despite the worries of Whitehall >officials, the Speaker, Michael Martin, and some fellow cabinet >ministers. > >- end clip - > > >Follow-up: >http://politics.guardian.co.uk/commons/story/0,9061,629072,00.html > >3pm update >Reformers sceptical of online voting > >Matthew Tempest, political correspondent >Monday January 7, 2002 > >Immediate concern was cast today over plans by the leader of the >Commons, Robin Cook, to bring in voting on the internet in time for >the next election. >... > >BBC coverage: >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/dot_life/ >newsid_1746000/1746902.stm (paste on one line) > >E-voting: A load of old ballots? > >The UK should be the first country to hold its general elections >online, says Robin Cook, leader of the Commons. But BBC News Online's >technology correspondent Mark Ward says it is not going to be easy. >... >^ ^ ^ ^ >Steven L. Clift - W: http://www.publicus.net >Minneapolis - - - E: clift@publicus.net >Minnesota - - - - - T: +1.612.822.8667 >USA - - - - - - - ICQ: 13789183 > > >*** Please send submissions to: DO-WIRE@TC.UMN.EDU *** >*** To subscribe, e-mail: listserv@tc.umn.edu *** >*** Message body: SUB DO-WIRE *** >*** To unsubscribe instead, write: UNSUB DO-WIRE *** > >*** Please forward this post to others and encourage *** >*** them to subscribe to the free DO-WIRE service. *** Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Tue Jan 8 01:24:44 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:24:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Public money, private code In-Reply-To: <3C3A29C7.38DF0783@austarmetro.com.au> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020108085023.020b0ec0@pop.primenet.com> <3C3A29C7.38DF0783@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: >England and America are two countries divided by a common language >-- George Bernard Shaw (supposedly) I haven't found anywhere that's been game to suggest where and when he said it; although I've found a couple that assert that it is *not* in his published writings. And at: http://www.babc.org/newengland/01fall2.html no less an authority than the British American Business Council says "In 1887 **Oscar Wilde** observed that "England and America are two countries divided by a common language" ... See also: http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu:8080/hyper-lists/classics-l/listserve_archives/log97/9711b/9711b.171.html -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Fellow Department of Computer Science The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 AUSTRALIA Information Sciences Building Room 211 Tel: +61 2 6125 3666 From brd@austarmetro.com.au Tue Jan 8 02:24:47 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:24:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Public money, private code References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020108085023.020b0ec0@pop.primenet.com> <3C3A29C7.38DF0783@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <3C3A4A5F.87933A8F@austarmetro.com.au> Roger Clarke wrote: > > >England and America are two countries divided by a common language > >-- George Bernard Shaw (supposedly) > > I haven't found anywhere that's been game to suggest where and when > he said it; although I've found a couple that assert that it is > *not* in his published writings. Pocket Oxford English Dictionary says: "Attributed in this and other forms, but not found in Shaw’s published writings" And I thought I was the only one who wasted time with quotations??? -- Every quotation contributes something to the stability or enlargement of the language. -- Samuel Johnson. 1755 Preface to A Dictionary of the English Languages. Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From at@ah.net Tue Jan 8 03:05:23 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:05:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. In-Reply-To: <20020108100545.A8027@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108125745.01a6cba0@pop> >Adam attracts a lot of cynicism. He is a character. He is melodramatic. >Between bushfires and wind damage, I have had 3 power outages of a day >each in the last month. I didn't present them as grist for the link, and >there was no discussion of whether I was missed, reviled, or ignored. I didn't complain about the storm power outages, which occurred on 18 November causing us massive film production grief. I can't help God and nor can Integral. Then there were the three brownouts over Christmas, again not caused by Integral, but by the enormous load of Air Conditioners being used in the local community on stinking hot days. I didn't complain that it took Integral 18 hours to restore power on 18 November either. I tried to help them and also appease the local neighbors that everything possible was being done, but safety comes first and until all the power lines were up and off the ground, no power should be returned to the grid. So I don't melodramatically complain about things that are natural or normal. Only negligence and things that we need to stand up for. Fortunately, we didn't have any wind damage issues. Nasty stuff that is. >Obviously, I made it back. and so will Adam. I'll try :) We're not offline 'yet' >When he does, he will be greeted by some, teased by others, and ignored by >a few. Yeah well, you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time :) >But he will be welcome. Aww, thanks :) I'll try and lift the entertainment level :) But I do set up the web sites so i don't have to post things to lists all the time. So watch the anti.integral site - it's had a LOT of additions today! >(Even Rick's comment quoted above invites continued discussion by Adam.) Yes, but like you suggest, some people ignore me and I've learnt to ignore Rick and now Patrick too :) I think Tony and others have indicated what community and discussion is about and I'm still a fragment of the Internet foundation in Australia. BTW, I'm trying to work out what 2LD Domain Names have to do with Link discussion, but do i get all whingy about it? I was told over two years ago by Link (well someone anyway) that the issues of DNS were not for Link. So I stopped posting all the useful (I considered it) information to Link. Admittedly, if everyone on Link were to take them "pet" out of the bag and post it, we'd be up for some several hundred emails a day, not to mention issues and debates. Might be interesting for the slow January month for everyone to post their 10 biggest Issues (Good or Bad) as a general view on what everyone does/thinks/ or takes interest in. You all know mine! From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Tue Jan 8 04:04:54 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:04:54 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. In-Reply-To: <20020108100545.A8027@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020108140105.00b42a40@ems.rmit.edu.au> golly me, I only joined Link because I thought it stood for 'loopy, independent, nerdy and kooky' k Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Tue Jan 8 04:00:52 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:00:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] On/Off topic Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D156E4@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> So for someone who joined Link only a few months ago ... what is exactly is considered on/off topic? I was never given a brief! -----Original Message----- From: Adam Todd [mailto:at@ah.net] Sent: Tuesday, 8 January 2002 1:05 To: Ralph Wallis Cc: Link Subject: Re: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. >>BTW, I'm trying to work out what 2LD Domain Names have to do with Link discussion, but do i get all whingy about it? I was told over two years ago by Link (well someone anyway) that the issues of DNS were not for Link. So I stopped posting all the useful (I considered it) information to Link. This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From ralph@intology.com.au Tue Jan 8 04:16:09 2002 From: ralph@intology.com.au (Ralph Meyen) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:16:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] http://www.cluegle.com Message-ID: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment for those who won't believe computers can read and create automated meta data ..! ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ralph.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 1027 bytes Desc: Card for Ralph Meyen Url : http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/5a0faace/ralph.vcf ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From brd@austarmetro.com.au Tue Jan 8 04:25:47 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:25:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Gartner, Align Thyself Message-ID: <3C3A66BB.EE75EC3F@austarmetro.com.au> A second dose of irony for the day... Gartner, Align Thyself CIO Magazine By Marc Ferranti 14 December, 2001 12:40 http://www.cio.com.au/IDG2.NSF/AllCIO/3051D6BFCF576CD2CA256B1F0009A34F!OpenDocument&NavArea=Topic+Centres&SelectedCategoryName=Project+Management When Gartner's current CIO took the helm and called attention to terminal misalignment, was it a case of the emperor's new clothes? Here's a candid look at where Gartner's been and where it's going. ... [Gartner's] troubles were exacerbated by a no-holds-barred acquisition strategy that went awry in the dust of the dotcom bust last spring. Like some of its clients, Gartner saw its market valuation and share price drop, and it had to sell off and take a loss on some of what it swallowed during the boom-time feeding frenzy. The company is now applying its own advice internally and using the lessons it learned in restoring alignment between its own IT department and its business side to meet the recession-time challenges of restoring investor confidence and bolstering its bread-and-butter research revenue. Here is the story of how Gartner dug itself into a hole and how it is digging out. .... -- Individuals who make their abode in vitreous edifices would be well advised to refrain from catapulting projectiles. -- unknown Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From rw@firstpr.com.au Tue Jan 8 05:02:24 2002 From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 15:02:24 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com Urrggh?? Why don't people document things? References: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> Message-ID: <3C3A6F50.DD5ED7D3@firstpr.com.au> What does http://www.cluegle.com do? I am sick of seeing references to sites and going to that site and spending quite a lot of time trying to figure out what it does, and coming up with nothing much of value. Such sites and references are often a damn waste of time. What it produced for one of my sites was useless, made no sense and carried no explanation at all. Why should I try another site? Its like if the movie completely sucks in the first 20 minutes, what is the probability it will redeem itself later? Q: Why do people think it is smart to not explain things? A: Because there is a deep instinct for showy mystery and flashy display, with minimal talk, in the ancestral versions of geeks - young men developing their hunting prowess and showing it off, with a very manly lack of words, to impress people about how good they are whilst at the same time, not letting anyone see how they do it, or how good they actually are. This stuff seems to work, or at least used to work, in terms of raising money on the stock market - so it has gained undeserved respectability and turned into something of an industry. But it seems totally contrary to the open-souce purposes of collaborative development where it persists, I think, largely due to instinctual reasons, but also perhaps due to shortage of time, and the fact that the person who created something does not necessarily have the skills or the fresh perspective to document it for the newcomer. Also, this approach goes down well with the "If I don't understand it, it must be profound" crowd. (Now rambling off-topic . . . ) I even think some people get a thrill if they create something *they* don't understand! As if something transcendent has occurred, and with luck, it will learn to walk and say "Daddy?" or similar . . . - Robin From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Tue Jan 8 05:23:30 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:23:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> References: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> Message-ID: It didn't do very well with: http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/DV/PP21C.html CLUEgle took 6.26 seconds Roger Clarke's Privacy Protection for the 21st Century CLUEgle Description: The Failure of Cost/Benefit Analysis as a Control Mechanism' Informatization and the Public Sector (March 1995). This paper argues that the intervening quarter-century has demonstrated quite comprehensively that FIP-based privacy protection laws have not delivered what humans actually need. Conventional information privacy protections are best described as 'fair information practices' (FIP). i... CLUEgle Keywords: informatization, fip, ssn, knowledge, ifip, pp.95, fascist, privacy, management, computerized, internet, electronic, management, commerce, compliance, data, corporate, organisational, regulatory, technology, undergraduate, faculty, computer, university, engineering, news, education, courses, science, programs http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/DV/PP21C.html - slow "pp.95"?? "ifip"?? "informatization" appears in a single entry in the Reference List: Clarke R. (1995a) 'Computer Matching by Government Agencies: The Failure of Cost/Benefit Analysis as a Control Mechanism' Informatization and the Public Sector (March 1995). At http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/DV/MatchCBA.html "fascist" appears precisely once, in " ... the spectre of authoritarian governments (variously fascist and communist) ..." The word "courses" doesn't appear in the paper I think I'll rely on an interactive tool, thanks. AI has been a fraud since the word was invented, and nothing's changed. -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Fellow Department of Computer Science The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 AUSTRALIA Information Sciences Building Room 211 Tel: +61 2 6125 3666 From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au Tue Jan 8 05:40:31 2002 From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:40:31 +1100 Subject: [LINK] http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au>; from ralph@intology.com.au on Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 02:16:09PM +1100 References: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> Message-ID: <20020108154031.A30204@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> > for those who won't believe computers can read and create automated > meta data ..! I can't say I'm that impressed, after a quick test on one of my sites http://www.cluegle.com/cgi-bin/query.pl?query=http%3A%2F%2Fdannyreviews.com The Description is just a curiously reordered excerpt of the text on the page, while the Keywords list contains some oddities (chat? site?) and omits some obvious candidates (reviews). Danny. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - nearly six hundred book reviews http://www.caa.org.au/ - working for an end to poverty http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel ---------------------------------------------------------- From dmeyer@harvestroad.com Tue Jan 8 05:51:33 2002 From: dmeyer@harvestroad.com (Damian Meyer) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:51:33 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com Urrggh?? Why don't people document things? References: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> <3C3A6F50.DD5ED7D3@firstpr.com.au> Message-ID: <3C3A7AD5.FC969E82@harvestroad.com> Robin Whittle wrote: > > What does http://www.cluegle.com do? > I'm guessing, but this appears (after a very brief 5 minute look) to be a web implementation of Klarity's tools for automatically creating keywords and other summary metadata. Well, I am assuming it is Klarity's stuff because that is the only link on the page. You put in a URL of a page and it generates a sample description and set of keywords for that page. You put in some keywords, it appears to do a google (or altavista) search using those keywords and then do the same process of metadata generation on the top few results. Of course, I could be totally wrong here. Rgds Damian -- Damian Meyer dmeyer@harvestroad.com Chief Technical Officer HarvestRoad Limited http://www.harvestroad.com/ From jmorris@intercode.com.au Tue Jan 8 06:10:45 2002 From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:10:45 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <20020108154031.A30204@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Danny Yee wrote: > > for those who won't believe computers can read and create automated > > meta data ..! > > I can't say I'm that impressed > It doesn't do very well in the dogfood test: CLUEgle took 1.87 seconds [Untitled] CLUEgle Error: CLUEgle was unable to generate a description for this page. The page may not exist or may contain insufficient content to generate a description. http://www.clugle.com/ - fast From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au Tue Jan 8 06:31:31 2002 From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:31:31 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com Urrggh?? Why don't people document things? Message-ID: <200201080531.g085VZ700675@web.anu.edu.au> From: Robin Whittle (8/1/02 15:02) >What does http://www.cluegle.com do? the clues are there... >I am sick of seeing references to sites and going to that site and >spending quite a lot of time trying to figure out what it does, and >coming up with nothing much of value. With a little digging I found that Cluegle is developed by an Australian company, and so a quick phone call confirmed my guesses as to cluegle .. it's a beta version of a meta-content extraction demonstration laid on top of a meta-search engine. A beta-meta-meta-search tool, if that makes it any clearer ;-) >Such sites and references are often a damn waste of time. This site's domain of concern (meta-content technology) aligns with my domain of concern (information architecture), and so I was motivated to dig a little deeper. In a way that was better than simply beiong presented with some canned spiel which the cynic in me would dismiss as being biased with a sales agenda. >Q: Why do people think it is smart to not explain things? Why do people think that everything is done for a purpose, as if it's some great conspiracy? I've already passed on the suggestion that they need to explain what cluegle does and they agree totally. It was an oversight, forgivable in a beta production. e. ______________________________________________________________________ eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s information architect http://www.ironclad.net.au/ From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au Tue Jan 8 09:10:17 2002 From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:10:17 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <200201080531.g085VZ700675@web.anu.edu.au>; from eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au on Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 04:31:31PM +1100 References: <200201080531.g085VZ700675@web.anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <20020108191017.A2771@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> Eric Scheid wrote: > With a little digging I found that Cluegle is developed by an Australian > company, and so a quick phone call confirmed my guesses as to cluegle .. > it's a beta version of a meta-content extraction demonstration laid on > top of a meta-search engine. They should probably do a little bit of digging themselves -- at least as far as Google's terms of service, which prohibit any use of Google for meta-searching. See the section "No Automated Querying" on http://www.google.com/terms_of_service.html And I think Altavista is the same. I doubt either of them will mind with a small prototype, of course, but it's probably best to avoid it. Danny. From markpeterson1968@yahoo.com Tue Jan 8 10:01:37 2002 From: markpeterson1968@yahoo.com (Mark Peterson) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 01:01:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LINK] Pay it @ Post Message-ID: <20020108090137.4675.qmail@web14903.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Linkers, I have been investigating various payment options available for online sellers and came across the "Pay it @ Post" service from Australia Post. >From their web site: http://payitatpost.auspost.com.au/ it says: +++++++++++++ "What is Pay it @POST ? An innovative payment system designed to help broaden the customer base of online businesses. The service provides an attractive payment alternative for your customers who are reluctant to provide credit card details over the Internet. Briefly: Customers visiting your web site simply print details of the goods they have ordered and make payment at a Australia Post postal outlet. Australia Post collects payments on your behalf after which you send the goods to your customer. Pay it @POST Highlights Extends the reach of your business - 3000+ Australia Post Offices collecting payments on your behalf. Quick and easy to implement - we provide full support to enable integration between your e-Commerce site and Australia Post's financial systems. Access to information on the status of all orders, payments and settlements available anytime." +++++++++++++ So my question is, how many merchants are using this service and how do their "Pay it @ Post" transaction volumes compare to the merchant's credit card transaction volumes. Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From at@ah.net Tue Jan 8 10:57:15 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:57:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <20020108154031.A30204@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> References: <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> <3C3A6479.9347B622@intology.com.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108205620.047ab5e0@pop> At 15:40 8/01/02 +1100, Danny Yee wrote: > > for those who won't believe computers can read and create automated > > meta data ..! > >I can't say I'm that impressed, after a quick test on one of my sites > http://www.cluegle.com/cgi-bin/query.pl?query=http%3A%2F%2Fdannyreviews.com Ok I had to try it :) Yes, very unimpressive I agree. The site can hardly be slow, it's on a 512K digital link! Didn't really do much, most of the keywords are already in meta. CLUEgle took 14.06 seconds Sex - Mostly Australian, Rapidly Growing Adult Site, Real Time Chat (Web or IRC), Sex Guide, Healthy Sex, Discussion, Classifieds, Contacts, Quick Messages, Personals, Photo Sessions, Live Video, Video Archives, Educational Material CLUEgle Description: adult chat swingers personals contacts friends discussions conference classifieds free women men naked nudity photos video live streaming sex erotica australia oz aus pacific adult chat swingers personals contacts friends discussions conference classifieds free women men naked sex erotica australia oz aus pacific adult chat swingers personals contacts friends discussions conference classifieds fr... CLUEgle Keywords: teenage, chat, password, user, acn, servers, sex, sexual, irc, naked, mobile, isp, phone, domain, user, password, access, default, username, modem, confidential, phone, privacy, password, user, access, data, security, username, login http://www.sex.inoz.com/ - slow From adam@todd.inoz.com Tue Jan 8 10:43:20 2002 From: adam@todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:43:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Adam's bite is worse than his bark Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> Just thought I'd let everyone know we have a few days reprieve presently. This afternoon (after hours) Suzanne and I attended the NSW Supreme Court and applied to make a verbal interlocutory injunction against EWON and Integral. The Judge instructed the Judges Associate to telephone Integral and hold off any action until the matter has been through the court. I guess you call that a "quasi interlocutory injunction." We'll be in the court 10 AM on Thursday morning if anyone wants to see exactly how bad my bite really is. So I'd better re-write my David and Goliath story: "David discovered he was wearing a bullet proof vest and has loaded the BFG for action." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- |E=MC2 (Integral Energy = Mad Consumers Squared) Been burnt by your Electricity provider? Check out Anti Integral http://anti.integral.inoz.com/ Lodge an online complaint today! http://integral.sux.com/ Phone (02) 8825 6119 From Michael.Skeggs@uk.uu.net Tue Jan 8 13:12:44 2002 From: Michael.Skeggs@uk.uu.net (Michael Skeggs) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:12:44 -0000 Subject: [LINK] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on E-Democracy/Online Voting Message-ID: <6C018331C997D5119C3C0008C7E6F4802B50D4@ukcamexch3.cbg.uk.corp.eu.uu.net> BBC Radio 4 had a segment on this today. The general line was that lack of voter participation is a problem and anything to encourage voting is a "good thing". A policy wonk made the point that being *able* to vote easily still won't make people care enough to vote. The unspoken agenda is that voting can't be made compulsory as it would favour the left, and it is the left trying to find alternatives to ease voting. Voting by SMS was also mentioned. Someone else mentioned some figures which I will try to quote: - a trial in US Democrat primaries of e-voting saw a 600% increase in participation (I nearly said turn-out). The point wasn't made, but I understand that almost nobody votes in the party primaries in the US anyway, so 600% could well reflect 12 people voting in a district instead of two. The presenter then erroneously stated "but we all no Internet access is free in the US." Fortunately the government spokesman knew his stuff and pointed out that total cost of access in the UK was actually lower than the US if you combine call and ISP charges. - a counter argument was put forward that a local government e-voting trial in south London saw only 2.5% voting by Internet. Nobody seemed to consider the obvious point that a nationally publicised and supported general election would quite likely get a better response (assuming there are no PKI hoops to jump through). - security was mentioned as an afterthought, mainly from the perspective of verifying the integrity of the data, not authenticating voters. My general impression was that the democratic responsibility has less gravity in the UK than Oz, my guess is that optional voting devalues its importance to the general populace, and there would be less concern with the integrity of the process than there might be in Oz. I share the skepticism that e-voting by Internet can be made workable at this time, predominantly that a traditional polling place uses very weak voter authentication, but limits repeat votes by injecting human contact. Voting by Internet would need a different approach to ensure voter validity. Most solutions to this I have seen suggested create barriers to casting a vote (e.g, requiring prior pre-registration etc.). I suppose the other issues of integrity of the count and auditability could be solved if enough money was thrown at it. The other advantage traditional polling has in fighting fraud is granularity by geography. Rigging a number of seats would be difficult. Compromising a central voting computer would give much more bang for buck. Regards, Michael Skeggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Karin Geiselhart [mailto:karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au] > Sent: 08 January 2002 12:24 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: Fwd: [LINK] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on > E-Democracy/Online Voting > > > I hesitated to forward this, but since it's 'on topic', > here's more on the > UK online voting, from Steven Clift's democracy list: > > By the way, Steve travels the world looking at email lists > and e-democracy > initiatives, and he said that LINK is the best mailing list > he knows about > internet and related issues. > > >Subject: [DW] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on > E-Democracy/Online Voting > >To: do-wire@tc.umn.edu > > > >*** Democracies Online Newswire - http://www.e-democracy.org/do *** > > > >Big interview in the Guardian today: > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,628776,00.html > > > >Cook plans to make UK first to vote on internet > > > >Jackie Ashley > >Monday January 7, 2002 > >The Guardian > > > >Britain will become the first country in the world to use the > >internet for voting, as part of radical changes to the political > >system, Robin Cook, the leader of the Commons, has told the Guardian. > > > >In an interview, Mr Cook is scathing about the culture of parliament, > >describing its procedures as antique, ludicrous, Dickensian and as > >ritualised as 18th-century duelling. > > > >Mr Cook intends to "enfranchise" those who want to vote online as a > >way of drawing back under-40s to the democratic process. Pilot > >schemes for local elections begin in the spring, with a chance that > >voting by internet could be in place for the next general election, > >though Mr Cook admits that that is a "tough call". > > > >Among his other plans is the use of the web for daily feedback to > >parliament on policy choices before MPs. He also confirms his > >determination to press ahead with increased powers and greater > >independence for select committees, despite the worries of Whitehall > >officials, the Speaker, Michael Martin, and some fellow cabinet > >ministers. > > > >- end clip - > > > > > >Follow-up: > >http://politics.guardian.co.uk/commons/story/0,9061,629072,00.html > > > >3pm update > >Reformers sceptical of online voting > > > >Matthew Tempest, political correspondent > >Monday January 7, 2002 > > > >Immediate concern was cast today over plans by the leader of the > >Commons, Robin Cook, to bring in voting on the internet in time for > >the next election. > >... > > > >BBC coverage: > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/dot_life/ > >newsid_1746000/1746902.stm (paste on one line) > > > >E-voting: A load of old ballots? > > > >The UK should be the first country to hold its general elections > >online, says Robin Cook, leader of the Commons. But BBC News Online's > >technology correspondent Mark Ward says it is not going to be easy. > >... > >^ ^ ^ ^ > >Steven L. Clift - W: http://www.publicus.net > >Minneapolis - - - E: clift@publicus.net > >Minnesota - - - - - T: +1.612.822.8667 > >USA - - - - - - - ICQ: 13789183 > > > > > >*** Please send submissions to: DO-WIRE@TC.UMN.EDU *** > >*** To subscribe, e-mail: listserv@tc.umn.edu *** > >*** Message body: SUB DO-WIRE *** > >*** To unsubscribe instead, write: UNSUB DO-WIRE *** > > > >*** Please forward this post to others and encourage *** > >*** them to subscribe to the free DO-WIRE service. *** > > Dr. Karin Geiselhart > School of Business Information Technology > RMIT University Melbourne > ph 03 9925 1352 > fax 03 9925 5482 > http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart > > From patrick@quad.net.au Tue Jan 8 13:54:04 2002 From: patrick@quad.net.au (Patrick Corliss) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:54:04 +1100 Subject: [LINK] http://www.cluegle.com References: Message-ID: <006f01c19843$8dcc6ce0$b33efea9@hamza> On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:10:45 +1100 (EST), James Morris wrote: > It doesn't do very well in the dogfood test: > > > CLUEgle took 1.87 seconds > > [Untitled] > CLUEgle Error: CLUEgle was unable to generate a description for this page. > The page may not exist or may contain insufficient content to generate a > description. > http://www.clugle.com/ - fast Hi James My guess is that you have mis-spelled "cluegle" in your test (see above response). You will find that the domain "clugle.com" when entered as a URL in the browser's address line returns an error: "Name Error: The domain name does not exist." Whilst I am not familiar with the term "dogfood test" I had already tried cutting the URL and entering it as input data. I saw that as some sort of recursion :-). Unlike your input, the response to my input shows a selection of keywords. It seems that a genuine website returns keywords whilst a dummy name does not. That makes sense to me. I also tested a simple input string "toys" using both cluegle and google. Both responded with the same selection of URLs and in the same order. The cluegle response was a little more informative but not enough to make me want to use it in preference to google. BTW what I got from entering http://www.cluegle.com/ was: CLUEgle took 0.07 seconds CLUEgle CLUEgle Error: CLUEgle was unable to generate a description for this page. The page may not exist or may contain insufficient content to generate a description. CLUEgle Keywords: search, url, altavista, keywords, engine, document, choose, type, read, powered, meta, klarity, data, automated, concept, integrating, provides, build, service, paper http://www.cluegle.com/ - very fast Best regards Patrick Corliss From jmorris@intercode.com.au Tue Jan 8 14:15:38 2002 From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:15:38 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <006f01c19843$8dcc6ce0$b33efea9@hamza> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Patrick Corliss wrote: > Hi James > > My guess is that you have mis-spelled "cluegle" in your test (see above > response). You will find that the domain "clugle.com" when entered as a URL > in the browser's address line returns an error: > > "Name Error: The domain name does not exist." > Oops, my bad. - James -- James Morris From stephen@melbpc.org.au Tue Jan 8 21:35:40 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 07:35:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] FYI: NetWorld+Interop Message-ID: <200201082036.HAA10439@newemu.melbpc.org.au> Hi there, NetWorld+Interop .. free, & perhaps of interest .. -- Exhibition Registration to NetWorld+Interop http://www.key3media.com.au/interop/?sid=118 Tuesday 10am to 6pm | Wednesday 10am to 9pm | Thursday 10am to 5pm ... 5 March - 7 March, 2002 Sydney Convention and Exhibition Centre -- Thanks, Chris .. Stephen Loosley mail@stephen.hm From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Jan 8 23:59:40 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:59:40 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Gartner, Align Thyself Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C6845D@EXCHANGE_AU> A strange omission: nobody mentioned the last piece in Gartner's corporate strategy - "Brief a PR company to pitch the exclusive story to a sympathetic journalist". RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernard Robertson-Dunn [mailto:brd@austarmetro.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, 8 January 2002 13:26 > To: Link > Subject: [LINK] Gartner, Align Thyself > > > A second dose of irony for the day... > > Gartner, Align Thyself > CIO Magazine > By Marc Ferranti > 14 December, 2001 12:40 > http://www.cio.com.au/IDG2.NSF/AllCIO/3051D6BFCF576CD2CA256B1F 0009A34F!OpenDocument&NavArea=Topic+Centres&SelectedCategoryName=Project+Man agement When Gartner's current CIO took the helm and called attention to terminal misalignment, was it a case of the emperor's new clothes? Here's a candid look at where Gartner's been and where it's going. ... [Gartner's] troubles were exacerbated by a no-holds-barred acquisition strategy that went awry in the dust of the dotcom bust last spring. Like some of its clients, Gartner saw its market valuation and share price drop, and it had to sell off and take a loss on some of what it swallowed during the boom-time feeding frenzy. The company is now applying its own advice internally and using the lessons it learned in restoring alignment between its own IT department and its business side to meet the recession-time challenges of restoring investor confidence and bolstering its bread-and-butter research revenue. Here is the story of how Gartner dug itself into a hole and how it is digging out. .... -- Individuals who make their abode in vitreous edifices would be well advised to refrain from catapulting projectiles. -- unknown Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From marghanita@ramin.com.au Tue Jan 8 23:44:08 2002 From: marghanita@ramin.com.au (M. da Cruz) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:44:08 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fare well all. The lights are going out. References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107142520.02fa2980@pop> <3C3923A8.41B8D0ED@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <3C3B7637.73A8@ramin.com.au> ..and conflict. Though it is curious that in this era of unprecedented communication - phone, internet and air travel, the world seems to be retreating into conservative "village" values with a high level of ignorance and fear of neigbouring villagers. Marghanita Tony Barry wrote: > We talk of networked communities but we must remember that for > communities to be enriched and grow they are founded, not in > uniformity, but diversity. -- Marghanita da Cruz mailto:marghanita@ramin.com.au http://www.ramin.com.au - Tel:(+61)0414-869202 Ramin Communications - ABN 27 089 713 084 From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Jan 8 23:57:59 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:57:59 +1100 Subject: OT - RE: [LINK] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on E-Democracy/Online Voting In-Reply-To: <6C018331C997D5119C3C0008C7E6F4802B50D4@ukcamexch3.cbg.uk.c orp.eu.uu.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020109095110.020cf470@pop.primenet.com> At 12:12 PM 8/01/02 +0000, Michael Skeggs wrote: >I share the skepticism that e-voting by Internet can be made workable at >this time, predominantly that a traditional polling place uses very weak >voter authentication, but limits repeat votes by injecting human contact. >Voting by Internet would need a different approach to ensure voter validity. >Most solutions to this I have seen suggested create barriers to casting a >vote (e.g, requiring prior pre-registration etc.). I have to laugh at this. The human intervention is a question: have you voted elsewhere today or by mail-in [or something similar]? I was quite amused by this when I was in WA during the recent election handing out how to vote cards. >I suppose the other issues of integrity of the count and auditability could >be solved if enough money was thrown at it. >The other advantage traditional polling has in fighting fraud is granularity >by geography. Rigging a number of seats would be difficult. Compromising a >central voting computer would give much more bang for buck. Sort of. But as long a there is such low verification as currently occurs, would e-voting be any worse? Seems the way to use geography to control would be to have people ONLY vote by local polling place as the most strict, in person or as handled by a voting official in person with the individual at their home if house/hospital bound, or with a cross check of the absentees against a signoff sheet at the same local booth. Does that happen now? Didn't seem so as people were able to vote within the electorate but at a different assigned polling location. Checking would seem to be impossible given the speed at which results are announced. When is fraud checked for? One of the reasons vote rigging worked in the US was that dead people continued to vote because no one could take the time to check against the death records. But given the error margin discovered during the fiasco of 2000, looks like things haven't changed much and the person's vote really didn't matter too much after all, even in close elections. But that's another soap box..... Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From cas@taz.net.au Wed Jan 9 00:15:12 2002 From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:15:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Adam's yapping is far worse than his bite In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> Message-ID: <20020108231512.GW12294@taz.net.au> On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 08:43:20PM +1100, Adam Todd wrote: > Just thought I'd let everyone know we have a few days reprieve presently. adam, nobody gives a damn about the crap that goes on in your life. your attention-seeking behaviour doesn't endear you to anyone, it just pisses people off. you'd be a lot less hated if you could manage to refrain from inflicting your dramas on everyone. we don't care and we don't want to know. this is not an emotional support list for you, nor is it a list for you to post the tedious details of your life. many of us had raised hopes a few days ago over the prospect that even a monopolistic electricity company can occasionally do some accidental good by shutting you up. alas it was not to be...in fact, quite the reverse has happened - you've posted more of your drivel than usual to this list in the last few days. craig -- craig sanders From at@ah.net Wed Jan 9 01:15:33 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:15:33 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Adam's yapping is far worse than his bite In-Reply-To: <20020108231512.GW12294@taz.net.au> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109111003.03528af0@pop> >adam, nobody gives a damn about the crap that goes on in your life. > >your attention-seeking behaviour doesn't endear you to anyone, it just >pisses people off. And now I'm getting complaints from people because I no longer wish to help people, ISPs and others with their Telstra complaints. I no longer wish to help those who call asking for opinion and ideas on what to do to solve their problems. I guess Craig your life is so perfect and blissful, but reality is there are tens of thousands out there that have hassles and constantly seek advice using network communities, Internet and other resources to find helpful ideas that might be useful to them. If my postings aren't useful to them, instead of trying to discredit my efforts to stand up for the underdog and do my best to ensure what is inflicted upon me isn't inflicted upon you, then just delete them. Your abetting of your own argument is hypocritical and it's pretty discrediting of your own self lacking. Your constant show of envy and jealousy about the fact I'm out there doing things and clearly your life is so dull you have to incite attacks on those who have exciting and thought provoking lives, just makes you a very boring "Aussie Whinger." Sadly this is typical. So please, stop inflicting your endless whiny drivel on those who enjoy the show and hopefully learn from the issues I raise. Just some advice: Making mistakes isn't stupid. Ignoring them is. But if you can lean from the mistakes of others, why make the same mistakes yourself? From rha@juggernaut.com.au Wed Jan 9 02:05:55 2002 From: rha@juggernaut.com.au (Richard Archer) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:05:55 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Adam's yapping is far worse than his bite In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109111003.03528af0@pop> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20020109111003.03528af0@pop> Message-ID: At 11:15 AM +1100 9/1/02, Adam Todd wrote: >If my postings aren't useful to them, instead of trying to discredit my >efforts to stand up for the underdog and do my best to ensure what is >inflicted upon me isn't inflicted upon you, then just delete them. Adam, this is not the optimal solution. Your posts are off topic for this list and - community or not - you should not be posting them here. Please find a forum which is appropriate to the issues you wish to raise. FYI, the charter for Link covers: ]Areas of interest vary from time to time but the following ]topics have been of interest - ] ] * Public access to the network ] * Access to government information ] * Privacy ] * Telecommunications legislation ] * Censorship and control of content on the network ] * Social issues of network behavior such as spam ] * Role of libraries in open learning ] * Commonwealth/State policies concerning the network ] * Electronic commerce ] * Open/distance learning and the rise of the virtual campus Note that there is no item on that list that even remotely resembles self-aggrandising ranting about kidnapping, porn or electricity supply (or lack thereof). >So please, stop inflicting your endless whiny drivel on those who enjoy the Drivel? Hah! Pot: kettle = black >show and hopefully learn from the issues I raise. You must be kidding. What on earth is there to learn from your incoherent rantings? ...R. From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Wed Jan 9 02:16:49 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:16:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] On/Off topic In-Reply-To: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D156E4@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> References: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D156E4@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> Message-ID: At 2:00 PM +1100 8/1/02, Fitzsimmons, Caitlin wrote: >So for someone who joined Link only a few months ago ... what is exactly is >considered on/off topic? I was never given a brief! When you joined the list you should have been sent the email below. As the list manager I try and lets discussion flow freely and interpret the list's scope fairly loosely. Tony >>>> info link [Last updated on: Mon Jan 31 12:04:33 2000] Welcome to the Link list ======================== - link@www.anu.edu.au - You are subscribed to the link email list. UNSUBSCRIBING You can unsubscribe by sending a message - "unsubscribe link" to majordomo@www.anu.edu.au This will work automatically if you are using the same email account that you used to subscribe when you sent the message to the list "subscribe link" followed by your email address. If you find you have trouble send the "unsubscribe link" message to link-owner@www.anu.edu.au PRIVACY ASPECTS The membership of the list is public and can be retrieved by the 'who' command described below. The list is open so that at any time anybody may be a member. The current membership includes people from education, government, the media and the internet industry. Contributions to the list are archived and publicly available via the Web at . BACKGROUND The Link list is an email discussion list for people interested in the development of the internet in Australia although discussion strays from time to time into wider issues of communication. Areas of interest vary but the following topics have been of interest - * Public access to the internet * Access to government information * Privacy * Telecommunications legislation * Censorship and control of content on the network * Social issues of network behavior such as spam * Role of libraries in open learning * Commonwealth/State policies concerning the network * Electronic commerce * Open/distance learning and the rise of the virtual campus List members have taken an active role in - * Alerting members to publications and conferences of interest * Reports on developments from all levels of government * Circulating drafts of papers and submissions for comment from the list * Seeking assistance for particular problems * Debating major issues concerning the development of the internet in Australia This list was created by Eric Wainwright and Tony Barry, me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au and is maintained by Tony. The list is currently open and unmoderated. 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Prolonged discussion, discussion off topic or personal comments may cause the list owner to request that the discussion be held elesewhere. EMAIL ATTACHMENTS SIZE OF POSTINGS Email attachments should be avoided as - * They impose a significant burden on the list server as the membership grows * They may be difficult for all users to view. * Some users, for security reasons, delete all attachments rather than viewing them. The list currently will not accept postings, including attachments, over 40k in size. The alternative to sending a file as an attachment is to convert it to text and them email it, or mount it on a web site (if this is available to you) and email the URL. "BOUNCING" OF MESSAGES Majordomo will bounce all messages which appear to contain list commands in the first 5 lines of the message. Words like 'help' , 'subscribe' and 'unsubscribe' will cause to message to bounce to me as list manager. I will approve these to go to the list but I may not get to them for a time which will explain delays in their arrival to the list. Should your email address fail for some reason, 'bounces' from your account will be redirected to me, rather than the list. This means that for every failed address on the list I get an copy of every message going to the list. Should the address continue to fail I have no choice but to unsubscribe your address. Should you have cause to think this may have happened check the archives to see if you have missed messages and resubscribe. Thank you for joining. Tony Barry me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon, 31 Jan 2000 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ATTACHMENT MAJORDOMO HELP FILE This is Brent Chapman's "Majordomo" mailing list manager, version 1.92. In the description below items contained in []'s are optional. When providing the item, do not include the []'s around it. It understands the following commands: subscribe [
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if specified) are on. who Find out who is on the named . info Retrieve the general introductory information for the named . lists Show the lists served by this Majordomo server. help Retrieve this message. end Stop processing commands (useful if your mailer adds a signature). Commands should be sent in the body of an email message to "Majordomo". Commands in the "Subject:" line NOT processed. >>>> end END OF COMMANDS -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From fpilcher@gky.com.au Wed Jan 9 04:03:23 2002 From: fpilcher@gky.com.au (Fred Pilcher) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:03:23 +1100 Subject: OT - RE: [LINK] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on E-Democracy/Online Voting In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020109095110.020cf470@pop.primenet.com> References: <6C018331C997D5119C3C0008C7E6F4802B50D4@ukcamexch3.cbg.uk.c orp.eu.uu.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20020109135852.017f6db8@gky.com.au> Jan wrote: >I have to laugh at this. The human intervention is a question: have you >voted elsewhere today or by mail-in [or something similar]? I was quite >amused by this when I was in WA during the recent election handing out how >to vote cards. A mate of mine who officiates at both federal and local (ACT) elections said that, in his first training session prior to an ACT poll, that question wasn't mentioned and he asked whether they should ask it. The training guy said "Of course not - it's a bloody stupid question anyway." Cheers all. Fred From bestcih@alibaba.com Mon Jan 7 17:59:32 2002 From: bestcih@alibaba.com (=?gb2312?q?=D6=D0=B9=FA=B9=FA=BC=CA=BC=D2=BE=DF=CD=F8_) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:59:32 +0800 Subject: [LINK] =?gb2312?q?=D1=FB_=C7=EB_=BA=AF(=D7=DD=BA=E1=B9=E3=B6=AB=C1=F9=B4=F3=BC=D2=BE=DF--=D5=B9=B4=FA=C0=ED=B2=CE=D5=B9=B7=FE=CE=F1)_Invitation--to_the_six_large_furniture_exhibits_of_Guangdong?= Message-ID: <200201090313.g093DJ704214@web.anu.edu.au> This is a multi-part message in MIME format ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment =D1=FB =C7=EB =BA=AF =A8D=A8D=D7=DD=BA=E1=B9=E3=B6=AB=C1=F9=B4=F3=BC=D2=BE=DF=D5=B9 =D6=D0=B9=FA=BC=D2=BE=DF=D6=D8=D2=AA=C9=FA=B2=FA=BC=AF=C9=A2=B5=D8=A8D=A8= D=B9=E3=B6=AB=BD=AB=D3=DA3=D4=C2=B7=DD=D5=D9=BF=AA=A3=BA=D6=D0=BB=AA=B9=FA=BC= =CA=BC=D2=BE=DF(=B6=AB=DD=B8)=D5=B9=C0=C0=BB=E1(14-17=C8=D5)=A1=A2=B5=DA=CA=AE= =BD=EC=C9=EE=DB=DA=B9=FA=BC=CA=BC=D2=BE=DF=D5=B9=C0=C0=BB=E1=A3=A815-19=C8=D5= 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ADD:=B9=E3=B6=AB=CA=A1=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=C0=D6=B4=D3=D5=F2=B3=C2=D6=DE=C9=B3= =CB=B3=CC=A9=B4=F3=CF=C34=C2=A5 =D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA528315 TEL:0086-0765-8839600(=CA=AE=CC=F5=CF=DF)=A1=A28839713=A1=A28839723=A1=A2= 8838092=A1=A3 FAX:0765-8839604,8838091 E-mail: wbm@777yp.com 777f@777f.com =C1=AA=CF=B5=C8=CB=A3=BA=CE=BA=CF=C8=C9=FA=A1=A2=CE=E9=D0=A1=BD=E3=A1=A2=D4=F8= =D0=A1=BD=E3 =D2=F8=D0=D0=B9=FA=C4=DA=D5=CB=BB=A7=A3=BA =D5=CA=BA=C5=A3=BA8815-34614308091001 =BB=A7=C3=FB=A3=BA=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=CC=DA=BF=C6=BC=C6=CB=E3=BB=FA=CD=F8=C2=E7= =BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE =BF=AA=BB=A7=D0=D0=A3=BA=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=F8=D0=D0=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=D6=A7=D0=D0= =C0=D6=B4=D3=B0=EC=CA=C2=B4=A6 =D2=F8=D0=D0=B9=FA=CD=E2=D5=CB=BB=A7=A3=BA =CD=E2=BB=E3=D5=CA=BA=C5=A3=BA=A3=B4=A3=B7=A3=B6=A3=B4=A3=B0=A3=B5=A3=B5=A3=AD= =A3=B0=A3=B1=A3=B8=A3=B8=A3=AD=A3=B0=A3=B1=A3=B5=A3=B8=A3=B1=A3=B9=A3=AD=A3=B9= =BB=A7=A1=A1=A1=A1=C3=FB=A3=BA=C5=B7=B9=FA=C7=BF =BF=AA =BB=A7 =D0=D0=A3=BA=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=F8=D0=D0=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=D6=A7=D0= =D0=C0=D6=B4=D3=B0=EC=CA=C2=B4=A6 =D3=CA=BE=D6=BB=E3=BF=EE=A3=AC=B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=B9=E3=B6=AB=CA=A1=CB=B3=B5=C2= =CA=D0=C0=D6=B4=D3=D5=F2=B3=C2=D6=DE=C9=B3=CB=B3=CC=A9=B4=F3=CF=C34=C2=A5 = =D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA528315 =CA=D5=BF=EE=C8=CB=A3=BA=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=CC=DA=BF=C6=BC=C6=CB=E3= =BB=FA=CD=F8=C2=E7=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE Invitation _----- to the six large furniture exhibits of Guangdong There are going to be six large furniture exhibits in Guangdong on March = 2002, such as: (1)Zhonghua International furniture Exhibition in Dongguan(14-17 march) = (2)The tenth Shengzhen International furniture Exhibition(15-19 march), (3)The second Rechong International furniture Exhibition(15-20 march) (4)The third LongJiang Furniture Exhibition(17-20 march) (5)The ninth Guangzhu International Furniture Exhibition(18-21march). (6)The seventh Dongguan International Furniture Exhibition(19-22 march) There are more than 1000 enterprises to join the exhibition, maybe there are = over 100,000 buyers, and calculate in advance there are over 500,000 = people/time. But so many Exhibitions are hold at the same time and the same = province. How can you grasp the hard-won chance at the same time? Take it = easy, here will shoot the trouble, we are an International Furniture Network = company, the government offer us the qualification that we will have six = exhibition stations, we will specialize in helping you not only to bring you = much business opportunity but also save your time and cost-----provide you = large exhibition area and publicize your products widely.We can mainly = provide you special service as follows: 2:organise to show: we will arrange boarding and traffic for you,( the time = of signing up end at March 1th), the detailed arrange as below: March 16th: we will send special car to meet you at Beiyui airport, Guangzhu = train station, Tianhe train station. March 17th we will guide you set out to the zhonghua furniture xhibition in = Dongguan at 7:30. then set out to Shenzhen International furniture = exhibition at 12:30. At last return to the hotel at 17:30. March 18th: set out to Shunde Rechong Internation furniture exhibition at = 8:30, at 12:30 then to Shunde longjiang furniture exhibition, 17:30 return to = the hotel. March 19th: set out to Guangzhu international furniture exhibition at 8:00. = about at 12:30 to Dongguan, 17:30 back to the hotel. March 20th: we will send special car to see you off. The standard charge: USD380dollar/person( including boarding and traveling = expense) sponsor=A3=BABeijing Boxi Technology Co., Ltd International Furniture Network,China(www.777f.com) International Trade Yellow Page(777yp.com) undertake: Shunde Miracle Network Computer Technology Co., Ltd ZIP:528315 TAL:0086-765-8839600( ten lines) FAX:0086-765--8839604,8838091 E-mail: 777f@777f.com wbm@777yp.com attn=A3=BAMr. Wei, Miss wu, Miss zhen ADD: 4 Floor Shuntai Mansion Rechong Town Shunde city Guangdong Account number: =A3=B4=A3=B7=A3=B6=A3=B4=A3=B0=A3=B5=A3=B5=A3=AD=A3=B0=A3=B1= =A3=B8=A3=B8=A3=AD=A3=B0=A3=B1=A3=B5=A3=B8=A3=B1=A3=B9=A3=AD=A3=B9 Name: Guoqiang,OU Issuing bank: the bank of china, shunde branch, Rechong office. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From bestcih@alibaba.com Mon Jan 7 18:36:21 2002 From: bestcih@alibaba.com (=?gb2312?q?=D6=D0=B9=FA=B9=FA=BC=CA=BC=D2=BE=DF=CD=F8_) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:36:21 +0800 Subject: [LINK] 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=B4=FA=B7=A2=C0=F1=C6=B7=D7=CA=C1=CF=A3=BA =D4=DA=C1=F9=B4=F3=BB= =E1=D5=B9=C6=DA=BC=E4=B0=B2=C5=C5=D7=A8=C8=CB=BD=AB=C4=FA=CC=E1=B9=A9=B5=C4=D0= =FB=B4=AB=B5=A5=BB=F2=C0=F1=C6=B7=CF=F2=CF=E0=B9=D8=C6=F3=D2=B5=BA=CD=C8=CB=CA= =BF=C5=C9=B7=A2=A1=A3A4=D0=FB=B4=AB=B5=A5=A3=BA=A3=A41000=D4=AA/=CD=F2=B7=DD= =A3=BB =D0=A1=C0=F1=C6=B7=A3=BA=A3=A41500=D4=AA/=CD=F2=B7=DD=A3=BB =D6=F7=B0=EC=A3=BA=B1=B1=BE=A9=CA=D0=B2=AE=D0=C5=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB= =CB=BE =B3=D0=B0=EC=A3=BA=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=CC=DA=BF=C6=BC=C6= =CB=E3=BB=FA=CD=F8=C2=E7=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE =D6=D0=B9=FA=B9=FA=BC=CA=BC=D2=BE=DF=CD=F8 WWW.777F.NET =B9=FA=BC=CA=C9=CC=C3=B3=B4=F3=C8=AB WWW.777YP.COM =D4=DA=CF=DF=B1=A8=C3=FB=A3=BAhttp://www.777f.net/web/zhfw/ ADD:=B9=E3=B6=AB=CA=A1=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=C0=D6=B4=D3=D5=F2=B3=C2=D6=DE=C9=B3= =CB=B3=CC=A9=B4=F3=CF=C34=C2=A5 =D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA528315 TEL:0086-0765-8839600(=CA=AE=CC=F5=CF=DF)=A1=A28839713=A1=A28839723=A1=A2= 8838092=A1=A3 FAX:0765-8839604,8838091 E-mail: wbm@777yp.com 777f@777f.com =C1=AA=CF=B5=C8=CB=A3=BA=CE=BA=CF=C8=C9=FA=A1=A2=CE=E9=D0=A1=BD=E3=A1=A2=D4=F8= =D0=A1=BD=E3 =D2=F8=D0=D0=B9=FA=C4=DA=D5=CB=BB=A7=A3=BA =D5=CA=BA=C5=A3=BA8815-34614308091001 =BB=A7=C3=FB=A3=BA=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=CC=DA=BF=C6=BC=C6=CB=E3=BB=FA=CD=F8=C2=E7= =BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE =BF=AA=BB=A7=D0=D0=A3=BA=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=F8=D0=D0=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=D6=A7=D0=D0= =C0=D6=B4=D3=B0=EC=CA=C2=B4=A6 =D2=F8=D0=D0=B9=FA=CD=E2=D5=CB=BB=A7=A3=BA =CD=E2=BB=E3=D5=CA=BA=C5=A3=BA=A3=B4=A3=B7=A3=B6=A3=B4=A3=B0=A3=B5=A3=B5=A3=AD= =A3=B0=A3=B1=A3=B8=A3=B8=A3=AD=A3=B0=A3=B1=A3=B5=A3=B8=A3=B1=A3=B9=A3=AD=A3=B9= =BB=A7=A1=A1=A1=A1=C3=FB=A3=BA=C5=B7=B9=FA=C7=BF =BF=AA =BB=A7 =D0=D0=A3=BA=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=F8=D0=D0=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=D6=A7=D0= =D0=C0=D6=B4=D3=B0=EC=CA=C2=B4=A6 =D3=CA=BE=D6=BB=E3=BF=EE=A3=AC=B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=B9=E3=B6=AB=CA=A1=CB=B3=B5=C2= =CA=D0=C0=D6=B4=D3=D5=F2=B3=C2=D6=DE=C9=B3=CB=B3=CC=A9=B4=F3=CF=C34=C2=A5 = =D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA528315 =CA=D5=BF=EE=C8=CB=A3=BA=CB=B3=B5=C2=CA=D0=CC=DA=BF=C6=BC=C6=CB=E3= =BB=FA=CD=F8=C2=E7=BF=C6=BC=BC=D3=D0=CF=DE=B9=AB=CB=BE Invitation _----- to the six large furniture exhibits of Guangdong There are going to be six large furniture exhibits in Guangdong on March = 2002, such as: (1)Zhonghua International furniture Exhibition in Dongguan(14-17 march) = (2)The tenth Shengzhen International furniture Exhibition(15-19 march), (3)The second Rechong International furniture Exhibition(15-20 march) (4)The third LongJiang Furniture Exhibition(17-20 march) (5)The ninth Guangzhu International Furniture Exhibition(18-21march). (6)The seventh Dongguan International Furniture Exhibition(19-22 march) There are more than 1000 enterprises to join the exhibition, maybe there are = over 100,000 buyers, and calculate in advance there are over 500,000 = people/time. But so many Exhibitions are hold at the same time and the same = province. How can you grasp the hard-won chance at the same time? Take it = easy, here will shoot the trouble, we are an International Furniture Network = company, the government offer us the qualification that we will have six = exhibition stations, we will specialize in helping you not only to bring you = much business opportunity but also save your time and cost-----provide you = large exhibition area and publicize your products widely.We can mainly = provide you special service as follows: 2:organise to show: we will arrange boarding and traffic for you,( the time = of signing up end at March 1th), the detailed arrange as below: March 16th: we will send special car to meet you at Beiyui airport, Guangzhu = train station, Tianhe train station. March 17th we will guide you set out to the zhonghua furniture xhibition in = Dongguan at 7:30. then set out to Shenzhen International furniture = exhibition at 12:30. At last return to the hotel at 17:30. March 18th: set out to Shunde Rechong Internation furniture exhibition at = 8:30, at 12:30 then to Shunde longjiang furniture exhibition, 17:30 return to = the hotel. March 19th: set out to Guangzhu international furniture exhibition at 8:00. = about at 12:30 to Dongguan, 17:30 back to the hotel. March 20th: we will send special car to see you off. The standard charge: USD380dollar/person( including boarding and traveling = expense) sponsor=A3=BABeijing Boxi Technology Co., Ltd International Furniture Network,China(www.777f.com) International Trade Yellow Page(777yp.com) undertake: Shunde Miracle Network Computer Technology Co., Ltd ZIP:528315 TAL:0086-765-8839600( ten lines) FAX:0086-765--8839604,8838091 E-mail: 777f@777f.com wbm@777yp.com attn=A3=BAMr. Wei, Miss wu, Miss zhen ADD: 4 Floor Shuntai Mansion Rechong Town Shunde city Guangdong Account number: =A3=B4=A3=B7=A3=B6=A3=B4=A3=B0=A3=B5=A3=B5=A3=AD=A3=B0=A3=B1= =A3=B8=A3=B8=A3=AD=A3=B0=A3=B1=A3=B5=A3=B8=A3=B1=A3=B9=A3=AD=A3=B9 Name: Guoqiang,OU Issuing bank: the bank of china, shunde branch, Rechong office. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Wed Jan 9 05:00:13 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:00:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Aust broadband--push or pull? Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia Daily Update -- Tuesday, January 9, 2002. - - - - - 1. Aust broadband--push or pull? A major question for Australia is whether the rollout of broadband should be on the basis of a push (from the service providers) or a pull (from the users)-or both. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167259 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Wed Jan 9 04:57:20 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 14:57:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Could CD-copying actually be legal? Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia Daily Update -- Tuesday, January 8, 2002. - - - - - 5. Could CD-copying actually be legal? Record companies' efforts to protect CDs against digital copying are beginning to draw scrutiny from lawmakers concerned that the plans might violate the law. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167182 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From rick@praxis.com.au Wed Jan 9 06:04:55 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:04:55 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM Message-ID: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> This thought occurred to me at work, when a colleague mentioned he was attempting to get the company's name removed from a spammer's mailing list: A spammer who has your email address and uses it to send you email is in possession of data regarding your person. If you request that the spammer remove your email address from the spam list, and continue receiving email, is that a breach of the relevant Act? i.e. does the Act mandate that if you request that information about you be removed from an "inappropriate" database, it must be removed under penalty of law? Continuing that line of thinking, if it is indeed an offense not to remove an email address from a spam list upon request, consider the case of a spammer on foreign shores. With the spectre of international enforcement of the sovereign laws (there have already been such cases, such as Yahoo USA and the French), could the spammer be found guilty and charged under Australian law? -rickw ___________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From brd@austarmetro.com.au Wed Jan 9 06:20:12 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:20:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] 'Punish software makers for bad security' - NAS Message-ID: <3C3BD30C.11531944@austarmetro.com.au> 'Punish software makers for bad security' - NAS By Will Roger Posted: 09/01/2002 at 01:06 GMT The Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23595.html Congress should make it easier to punish companies that produce insecure software that puts business and consumers at risk, a panel assembled by the prestigious National Academy of Sciences (NAS) said Tuesday. "Policy makers should consider legislative responses to the failure of existing incentives to cause the market to respond adequately to the security challenge," the NAS' computer and telecommunications board wrote in a draft report on the nation's computer-security systems in the wake of Sept. 11. "Possible options include steps that would increase the exposure of software and systems vendors and system operators to liability for system breaches." Mandatory crime reporting and stricter liability are hardly new ideas: many computer-security specialists have recommended such measures for years. But the fact that they are being uttered by members of an NAS panel suggests the once-fringe ideas are more mainstream, and may gain urgency as decision-makers ponder, for example, what might have happened had terrorists launched an effective cyber attack simultaneous with the hijackings of Sept. 11. "A lot of security experts are starting to feel that way," said Marcus Ranum, chief technical officer of NFR Inc.and moderator of the Firewall Wizards email list. One member of his list recently "posted a long rant about how the vendors are dropping the ball. Then again, there's more than enough blame to go around." But new liability laws would run counter to legislation that has sought to reduce liability over the past few years. In 1999, Congress passed legislation that absolved companies from being sued over disclosures related to their preparation for the so-called Y2K bug. Legislators have also been amenable to widening protections extended under the Freedom of Information Act, so that companies can rest assured that security problems they have on their networks will not be exposed if they tell the government about them. Technology companies have naturally steered clear of laws that could increase their liability, and even devising liability standards would be difficult, says Mark Rasch, vice president of cyberlaw for security firm Predictive Systems Inc. in Reston, Va. What, he asks, rhetorically, should be the security standard for a game of Solitaire? More to the point, he says, is the question why so many companies buy products that are not up to the job. "Why punish someone for insecure products when there is a secure product [the customer] did not buy?," he asks. "Do we want to have a national law that imposes or warrants a certain level of security on all computers?" A more educated market, Rasch says, would do much to improve security. "Let's face it, Detroit railed against seat belts railed against airbags for years, but they really didn't take off until consumers demanded them." For all the criticism of vendors, the NAS panel finds fault elsewhere, too. Mainstream businesses, the panel writes, have failed to take security seriously. In the future, security administrators will need more money and more clout to keep networks safe from terrorists and criminals, the report says. In addition ordinary workers will need to be trained in good security and have the tools necessary for it on their own computers, according to the report. Finally, government needs to clean up its own, often pitiful, record in computer security, while funding more research and development to protect computers everywhere, according to the report. The market cannot respond to national imperatives when so many security products are designed for basic business, the NAS concludes. -- EU Directive 456179: In order to meet the conditions for joining the Single European currency, all citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland must be made aware that the phrase "Spending a penny" is not to be used after 31 December 2001. >From that date, the correct terminology will be: "Euronating". -- unknown Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au Wed Jan 9 07:02:20 2002 From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:02:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Could CD-copying actually be legal? Message-ID: <200201090602.g0962O712176@web.anu.edu.au> From: Tony Barry (9/1/02 14:57) >5. Could CD-copying actually be legal? >Record companies' efforts to protect CDs against digital copying are >beginning >to draw scrutiny from lawmakers concerned that the plans might violate the >law. >http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167182 the gist is that the record companies currently get paid some money for every blank media as compensation for copying ... and so preventing copying whilst still receiving that handout is a dodgy position to be in. all very interesting :-) e. ______________________________________________________________________ eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s information architect http://www.ironclad.net.au/ From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Wed Jan 9 07:07:19 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 17:07:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020109170444.00b57d40@ems.rmit.edu.au> And I won't believe anything effective has been put in place until those nigerians stop sending those begging letters, without my intervention. What good is any system if it doesn't prevent that crap in the first place? Like we all have the time or energy to exercise our 'rights' k Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From troy@rollo.com Wed Jan 9 07:30:15 2002 From: troy@rollo.com (Troy Rollo) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 17:30:15 +1100 Subject: FW: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <51957A0A918CD511BF7800508B6BC70B02467E5B@exsmel05.hq.auspo st.com.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109172013.02ceaa38@pop3.corvu.com.au> At 17:07 9/01/2002 +1100, Rowe, Joshua wrote: >A spammer who has your email address and uses it to send you email is in >possession of data regarding your person. If you request that the spammer >remove your email address from the spam list, and continue receiving email, >is that a breach of the relevant Act? Strictly speaking, no, since marketing is almost certainly the primary purpose of collection, so the direct marketing rules don't apply - they are only invoked when marketing is a secondary purpose. > i.e. does the Act mandate that if you >request that information about you be removed from an "inappropriate" >database, it must be removed under penalty of law? No. You can request access and can request corrections to incorrect facts, but you cannot insist on removal from a database. I suppose if they sold the list as a list of people who had requested advertising you could get the entry removed based on the presence on the list being an incorrect fact, but in that case the spammer is already breaching several other laws, including some involving prison time, and are unlikely to care if they are obeying the Privacy Act. Also, few spammers take in $3million per year, so they would be covered by the small business exemption. >Continuing that line of thinking, if it is indeed an offense not to remove >an email address from a spam list upon request, consider the case of a >spammer on foreign shores. The Privacy Act has no extraterritorial effect except for foreign companies related to Australian companies who receive personal information from their Australian relative. __________________________________________________________________________ Troy Rollo, Sydney, Australasia IANALY,TINLA troy@rollo.com Fight spam in Australia - Join CAUBE.AU - http://www.caube.org.au/ From felipe@xs4all.nl Wed Jan 9 07:40:18 2002 From: felipe@xs4all.nl (felipe rodriquez) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:40:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c198d8$87ab6880$0f00a8c0@A22P> Hi, Can we please stop this collective Adam Todd bashing that is going on ? It is quite uncivilized, and the flames directed at Adam are themselves very much off-topic. If you don't like reading Adam Todd's emails, then start using filters to filter his email, but don't waste bandwidth in a collective electronic gangbang of Mr. Todd. I quite enjoy Adam's emails, and am happy to receive them. But I do get quite annoyed by the off-topic fascists on this list, that seem to have nothing better to do than complain about off-topic posts. Go get a life, and get a free copy of procmail to go with it ! Regards Felipe Rodriquez From NSMITH@nla.gov.au Wed Jan 9 07:44:50 2002 From: NSMITH@nla.gov.au (Nick Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:44:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Could CD-copying actually be legal? Message-ID: <35A0BC67FA1AD311B18E0090277A418703BC45ED@gandalf.nla.gov.au> It's a nice punch to swing at the record companies but its only partially true. In the US, under the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992, royalties are payable on 'digital recording devices' and 'digital recording media'. These are pretty much limited to: devices: Digital audio cassette players, minidisc players, and DAT recorders; and media: DAT tapes and blank audio CDs (but not blank data CDs). PCs are excluded. The actual amount of money collected is something like $750 000 USD per annum which is not, relatively speaking, a lot of money (because the devices on which the royalty is payable are unpopular with consumers). So PCs which are overwhelmingly the tool of choice for consumers in making private copies are not covered by the scheme. And it is PC-made copies that are the target of copy-protected CDs. But yes, the recording industry hasn't exactly volunteered that it will forgo this money once copy-protected CDs are in circulation... Nick -- ========================================================= Nick Smith Executive Officer :: Australian Digital Alliance Copyright Advisor :: Australian Libraries Copyright Committee PO Box E202 \\ Kingston ACT 2604 Ph: 02 6262 1273 \\ Fax: 02 6273 2545 Email: nsmith@nla.gov.au \\ Web: www.digital.org.au ========================================================= > ---------- > From: Eric Scheid[SMTP:eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2002 17:02 > To: Link List > Subject: Re: [LINK] Could CD-copying actually be legal? > > From: Tony Barry (9/1/02 14:57) > > >5. Could CD-copying actually be legal? > >Record companies' efforts to protect CDs against digital copying are > >beginning > >to draw scrutiny from lawmakers concerned that the plans might violate > the > >law. > >http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167182 > > the gist is that the record companies currently get paid some money for > every blank media as compensation for copying ... and so preventing > copying whilst still receiving that handout is a dodgy position to be in. > > all very interesting :-) > > e. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s > information architect http://www.ironclad.net.au/ > > From annm@exocat.com.au Wed Jan 9 08:30:11 2002 From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:30:11 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing References: <000601c198d8$87ab6880$0f00a8c0@A22P> Message-ID: <001901c198df$7dfc4be0$d8218790@telstra.com> i agree with filipe, my research area is teleworking. teleworking is greatly supported by the internet. one of the issues with teleworking is that people who are successful teleworkers need to feel part of a 'community'. i would deduce from his posts that adam is a 'teleworker' and feels the link community is 'his' community with which he shares his feelings just as one might do round a coffee pot in a 'conventional' work community. just like a conventional work community, there are people one spends time with and those one avoids. i suggest that linkers' attitudes towards adam are of interest to us. many more of us will be teleworking soon and using em as a main communication vehicle. we need to observe behaviours to discover what works & what doesn't work & learn new etiquette. adam's posts give us all an opportunity to interact with someone like adam & decide what to do about it. i think its a valuable learning experience. annm ************************************ Ann Moffatt EXoCaT Pty Ltd 49 Raintree Avenue BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 mob +61 (0) 41 124 7164 *********************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "felipe rodriquez" To: "'Richard Archer'" ; Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 4:40 PM Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing > Hi, > > Can we please stop this collective Adam Todd bashing that is going on ? > It is quite uncivilized, and the flames directed at Adam are themselves > very much off-topic. If you don't like reading Adam Todd's emails, then > start using filters to filter his email, but don't waste bandwidth in a > collective electronic gangbang of Mr. Todd. > > I quite enjoy Adam's emails, and am happy to receive them. But I do get > quite annoyed by the off-topic fascists on this list, that seem to have > nothing better to do than complain about off-topic posts. Go get a life, > and get a free copy of procmail to go with it ! > > > Regards > > > Felipe Rodriquez > From patrick@quad.net.au Wed Jan 9 09:39:37 2002 From: patrick@quad.net.au (Patrick Corliss) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:39:37 +1100 Subject: OT - RE: [LINK] UK Leader of Commons Robin Cook on E-Democracy/Online Voting References: <6C018331C997D5119C3C0008C7E6F4802B50D4@ukcamexch3.cbg.uk.c orp.eu.uu.net> <4.3.1.1.20020109135852.017f6db8@gky.com.au> Message-ID: <004001c198e9$2d222960$b33efea9@hamza> On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:03:23 +1100, Fred Pilcher wrote: > Jan wrote: > > >I have to laugh at this. The human intervention is a question: have you > >voted elsewhere today or by mail-in [or something similar]? I was quite > >amused by this when I was in WA during the recent election handing out how > >to vote cards. > > A mate of mine who officiates at both federal and local (ACT) elections > said that, in his first training session prior to an ACT poll, that > question wasn't mentioned and he asked whether they should ask it. The > training guy said "Of course not - it's a bloody stupid question anyway." Hi Fred A quick O/T comment, if I may be excused. Having spent some time working in governments I was interested in the dumb questions asked by immigration and similar officials especially in the United States. Questions like "are you, or have you ever been, a member of the communist party?" or "do you take drugs?" etc. It was explained to me that there are penalties for false declarations and these allow the immigration official to cancel your visa administratively. So really dumb questions can be quite useful sometimes. Best regards Patrick Corliss From russell@Ashdown.net.au Wed Jan 9 10:27:12 2002 From: russell@Ashdown.net.au (russell@Ashdown.net.au) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:27:12 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing In-Reply-To: <000601c198d8$87ab6880$0f00a8c0@A22P> References: Message-ID: <3C3C9990.14088.2C19F26@localhost> In fact, the "Adam Todd flame group" is well known to this list, and in their own immature way they attemp to give legitimacy to their posts by attributing _their_ feelings against Adam to the whole list. They are as irrelevant to this list as they claim Adam is. Every argument that they put forward against Adam's sometimes off-topic posts applies equally to their posts in reply. In fact, if there is a problem, the constant karping and noise generated by this group is by a large extent more annoying than an occasional off-topic post by Adam. By flaming him, they inevitably inflame his rhetoric and this inevitably leads to another immature 'flame war'. I suspect that they only do this as a kind of 'sport' to see how much they can wind each other up. In the normal course, I would contact the individual(s) concerned off- list to ask them to desist. I did so recently, and was surprised to receive in reply such a stream of vitreol and foul abuse that it caused me to have concern for the mental state of the sender. I understand that Tony will not entertain a closed list, nor will he exclude anyone from posting. For that he is to be applauded. But, if there is ever any pruning to be done, it is these very few abusive and unbalanced individuals (you know who you are) who should be pruned from this list. Clearly they have an axe to grind and are just waiting for an opportunity to strike. So far as Adam Todd is concerned, I agree with Anne and Felipe. I too (and I suspect many others) enjoy Adam's posts, especially the off-topic posts. They add some colour to an otherwise grey and drab (but interesting) technical list. I am eagerly awaiting the next instalment. Finally, to those of you who will take personal offense to the above, take notice: I will not be engaging in any further correspondence on this topic directed at me either via the list or off-list, so save your abuse, and go kick the dog. Russell On 9 Jan 2002, at 17:40, felipe rodriquez wrote about: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing > Hi, > > Can we please stop this collective Adam Todd bashing that is going on ? > It is quite uncivilized, and the flames directed at Adam are themselves > very much off-topic. If you don't like reading Adam Todd's emails, then > start using filters to filter his email, but don't waste bandwidth in a > collective electronic gangbang of Mr. Todd. > > I quite enjoy Adam's emails, and am happy to receive them. But I do get > quite annoyed by the off-topic fascists on this list, that seem to have > nothing better to do than complain about off-topic posts. Go get a life, > and get a free copy of procmail to go with it ! > > > Regards > > > Felipe Rodriquez > From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Jan 9 11:17:43 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:17:43 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20020109170444.00b57d40@ems.rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: Couldn't someone just write a fuzzy logic filter for tortured English (8-) On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Karin Geiselhart wrote: > And I won't believe anything effective has been put in place until those > nigerians stop sending those begging letters, without my intervention. > > What good is any system if it doesn't prevent that crap in the first place? > > Like we all have the time or energy to exercise our 'rights' > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Jan 9 11:24:29 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:24:29 +1100 (EST) Subject: FW: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109172013.02ceaa38@pop3.corvu.com.au> Message-ID: Now this is an interesting thought. I am just about to consider doing battle with my credit card company about them saying in their C&T that I consent to them giving my information to other companies for purposes that I do not consider to be related to their providing me with credit card facilities. I consider this to be a secondary purpose. On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Troy Rollo wrote: > At 17:07 9/01/2002 +1100, Rowe, Joshua wrote: > >A spammer who has your email address and uses it to send you email is in > >possession of data regarding your person. If you request that the spammer > >remove your email address from the spam list, and continue receiving email, > >is that a breach of the relevant Act? > > Strictly speaking, no, since marketing is almost certainly the primary > purpose of collection, so the direct marketing rules don't apply - they are > only invoked when marketing is a secondary purpose. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Jan 9 11:31:45 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:31:45 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing In-Reply-To: <001901c198df$7dfc4be0$d8218790@telstra.com> Message-ID: Hear, hear. The biggest problem is that AT made a statement a couple of years ago about a major vulnerability in Redhat, but would not elaborate on the vulnerability. This upset a number of ppl who were pushing Linux hard against M$ at that time. He would do himself a big favour if he put this issue to bed, one way or the other. On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote: > i agree with filipe, > > my research area is teleworking. teleworking is greatly supported by the > internet. one of the issues with teleworking is that people who are > successful teleworkers need to feel part of a 'community'. i would deduce > from his posts that adam is a 'teleworker' and feels the link community is > 'his' community with which he shares his feelings just as one might do round > a coffee pot in a 'conventional' work community. > > just like a conventional work community, there are people one spends time > with and those one avoids. i suggest that linkers' attitudes towards adam > are of interest to us. many more of us will be teleworking soon and using em > as a main communication vehicle. we need to observe behaviours to discover > what works & what doesn't work & learn new etiquette. adam's posts give us > all an opportunity to interact with someone like adam & decide what to do > about it. i think its a valuable learning experience. > > annm > ************************************ > Ann Moffatt > EXoCaT Pty Ltd > 49 Raintree Avenue > BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 > tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 > fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 > mob +61 (0) 41 124 7164 > *********************************** > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "felipe rodriquez" > To: "'Richard Archer'" ; > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 4:40 PM > Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing > > > > Hi, > > > > Can we please stop this collective Adam Todd bashing that is going on ? > > It is quite uncivilized, and the flames directed at Adam are themselves > > very much off-topic. If you don't like reading Adam Todd's emails, then > > start using filters to filter his email, but don't waste bandwidth in a > > collective electronic gangbang of Mr. Todd. > > > > I quite enjoy Adam's emails, and am happy to receive them. But I do get > > quite annoyed by the off-topic fascists on this list, that seem to have > > nothing better to do than complain about off-topic posts. Go get a life, > > and get a free copy of procmail to go with it ! > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Felipe Rodriquez > > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU Wed Jan 9 12:46:03 2002 From: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU (David Chia) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:46:03 +1100 (EST) Subject: Term of Use (Re: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <20020108191017.A2771@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: > > With a little digging I found that Cluegle is developed by an Australian > > company, and so a quick phone call confirmed my guesses as to cluegle .. > > it's a beta version of a meta-content extraction demonstration laid on > > top of a meta-search engine. > > They should probably do a little bit of digging themselves -- at least > as far as Google's terms of service, which prohibit any use of Google > for meta-searching. See the section "No Automated Querying" on > http://www.google.com/terms_of_service.html > And I think Altavista is the same. I doubt either of them will mind > with a small prototype, of course, but it's probably best to avoid it. IANAL. This is not trying to defend Cluegle or bagging Google, nor a one-up-manship. I have no association with Google nor Cluegle. However I am curious if this could be a a grey area and a loophole. Websites on Internet are in public places and anything not explicitly forbiden and not infringing any law should be permissible. Google seems to allow 'personal' use of their search service on your website for 'non-commercial use'. Cluegle currently does not appear to be selling anything nor hosting any third party banner ads. Google explicitly does not allow 'meta-search'. Meta-search means aggregating search results from '2' or more search engines. Cluegle has link to 2 search engines in '1' select button, i.e. only one of which will be active if keyword search is triggered. Thus dispite of what the software author allegedly had said, it is arguable if this is considered to be 'meta-search'. Does 1 hand clapping make any sound? The content displayed appeared to be from Cluegle's own description different from that from Google. However, what prompted this dribble is the statement from Google: '... you may not take the results from a Google search and reformat and display them' 'You may not ... using any software which sends queries to Google to determine how a website or webpage "ranks"' Some content filtering softwares do indeed rank the items return from search engines with respect to some criteria, and do indeed 'reformat and display' the results (censoring offending item). Thus this might appear to be infringing on Google's terms of service. -- David Chia, RMIT University From at@ah.net Wed Jan 9 12:51:12 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:51:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Adam's yapping is far worse than his bite In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109111003.03528af0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20020108204113.01a72120@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20020109111003.03528af0@pop> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109224827.03931ec0@pop> You realise Richard, what you and the other "Flame Throwers" (who are consistent as so many postings today reflect) are merely trying to censor me directly, so that alone is an issue debatable and discussible on Link! It's a shame to see such censorship against an individual by a small handful of people, compared to the extremely large number that actually read or merely discard. I can't read everything on link, I tend to watch for names of people I know (like or dislike) and read their comments, I never delete anything, you never know what you might miss. If I find a thread suddenly interesting I back track. >] * Access to government information Integral is a Government Agency and if you read the web site you will note they refuse to provide me with access to consumer information. >] * Privacy EWON is a private company that gave confidential information to Integral breaching confidence and privacy. >] * Censorship and control of content on the network Yes well, if Integral disconnect the power, lost of things worthwhile will be censored! >] * Role of libraries in open learning Need those so I can research my court action. >Note that there is no item on that list that even remotely >resembles self-aggrandising ranting about kidnapping, porn or >electricity supply (or lack thereof). Oh I can't be bothered. Gee, you were losing brownie points, but now you've lost them all. > >So please, stop inflicting your endless whiny drivel on those who enjoy the > >Drivel? Hah! Pot: kettle = black Ditto to you too. > >show and hopefully learn from the issues I raise. > >You must be kidding. What on earth is there to learn from your >incoherent rantings? /me laughs Well watch and see. From 35886720@bigcashtoday.com Wed Jan 9 15:34:57 2002 From: 35886720@bigcashtoday.com (35886720@bigcashtoday.com) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 02 09:34:57 EST Subject: [LINK] *****ADVERTISE TO 12 MILLION PEOPLE FREE! Message-ID: <3791856948.991306994491@m0.net Received: from dialup-62.215.274.4.dial1.stamford ([62.215.274.4] > Dear link@www.anu.edu.au, Would you like to send an Email Advertisement to OVER 12,000,000 PEOPLE DAILY for FREE? Do you have a product or service to sell? Do you want an extra 100 orders per week? NOTE: (If you do not already have a product or service to sell, we can supply you with one). ========================================================= 1) Let's say you... Sell a $24.95 PRODUCT or SERVICE. 2) Let's say you... Broadcast Email to only 500,000 PEOPLE. 3) Let's say you... Receive JUST 1 ORDER for EVERY 2,500 EMAILS. CALCULATION OF YOUR EARNINGS BASED ON THE ABOVE STATISTICS: [Day 1]: $4,990 [Week 1]: $34,930 [Month 1]: $139,720 ======================================================== To find out more information, Do not respond by email. Instead, Please visit our web site at: http://www.bigcashtoday.com List Removal Instructions: We hope you enjoyed receiving this message. However, if you'd rather not receive future e-mails of this sort from Internet Specialists, send an email to listremovalstoday2002@yahoo.com and type "remove" in the "subject" line and you will be removed from any future mailings. We hope you have a great day! Internet Specialists From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Wed Jan 9 22:52:03 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 07:52:03 +1000 Subject: Term of Use (Re: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68483@EXCHANGE_AU> David, A sidelight to this is the extent to which a condition like "don't use this for X" is enforceable. T&C documents are not automatically held to be contracts in America. Don't know where Australian case law is. So in the case of cluegle, you have a company in one country breaching a T&C document written in another country, where the T&C would itself have to be tested in both countries. Anyhow, anything individuals can do to undermine the over-lawyering of their lives is a good thing! Richard Chirgwin Also not a lawyer! > -----Original Message----- > From: David Chia [mailto:rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2002 21:46 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: Term of Use (Re: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com > > > > > > With a little digging I found that Cluegle is developed > by an Australian > > > company, and so a quick phone call confirmed my guesses > as to cluegle .. > > > it's a beta version of a meta-content extraction > demonstration laid on > > > top of a meta-search engine. > > > > They should probably do a little bit of digging themselves > -- at least > > as far as Google's terms of service, which prohibit any use > of Google > > for meta-searching. See the section "No Automated Querying" on > > http://www.google.com/terms_of_service.html > > And I think Altavista is the same. I doubt either of them will mind > > with a small prototype, of course, but it's probably best > to avoid it. > > IANAL. This is not trying to defend Cluegle or bagging Google, nor a > one-up-manship. I have no association with Google nor > Cluegle. However I > am curious if this could be a a grey area and a loophole. Websites on > Internet are in public places and anything not explicitly forbiden and > not infringing any law should be permissible. > > Google seems to allow 'personal' use of their search service on your > website for 'non-commercial use'. Cluegle currently does not appear > to be selling anything nor hosting any third party banner ads. > > Google explicitly does not allow 'meta-search'. Meta-search means > aggregating search results from '2' or more search engines. > Cluegle has > link to 2 search engines in '1' select button, i.e. only one > of which will > be active if keyword search is triggered. Thus dispite of what the > software author allegedly had said, it is arguable if this is > considered > to be 'meta-search'. Does 1 hand clapping make any sound? The content > displayed appeared to be from Cluegle's own description different from > that from Google. > > However, what prompted this dribble is the statement from Google: > > > '... you may not take the results from a Google search and reformat > and display them' > > 'You may not ... > using any software which sends queries to Google to determine > how a website or webpage "ranks"' > > > > Some content filtering softwares do indeed rank the items return from > search engines with respect to some criteria, and do indeed 'reformat > and display' the results (censoring offending item). Thus this might > appear to be infringing on Google's terms of service. > > > -- > David Chia, RMIT University > From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Wed Jan 9 23:15:53 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:15:53 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68485@EXCHANGE_AU> Interesting story on ZDNet: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2102244,00.html In which ZDNet accuses Microsoft of rigging a poll to favour .Net over Java. Some cause for laughter... >Several of the voters evidently followed a link contained in an email, the subject line of which ran: "PLEASE STOP >AND VOTE FOR .NET!" We know this, because our logs include the Web address where visitors browsed from; >when people click there from a Microsoft Exchange email message, Exchange helpfully gives us the subject >line and username. The people who followed that link all had email addresses in the microsoft.com domain. On the funny side, a feature of Exchange undermines a PR campaign by Microsoft. On the not-so-funny side - embedding such information in the clickstream makes the most common home e-mail platform completely unsuitable for any real online democracy. >There is also clear evidence of automated voting, with scripts attempting to post multiple times. The only surprise here is that the person assembling the scripts didn't add enough sophistication to spoof the "from" domain and user info. Has ZDNet shot itself in the foot with this story? Has it given away enough information to permit more successful poll-rigging in the future? Richard Chirgwin From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Wed Jan 9 23:27:24 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:27:24 +1100 Subject: FW: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109172013.02ceaa38@pop3.corvu.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020110091403.020d3840@pop.primenet.com> At 09:24 PM 9/01/02 +1100, Howard Lowndes wrote: >Now this is an interesting thought. I am just about to consider doing >battle with my credit card company about them saying in their C&T that I >consent to them giving my information to other companies for purposes that >I do not consider to be related to their providing me with credit card >facilities. I consider this to be a secondary purpose. Consent is part of the law. That means you do not have to consent. And it must be knowledgeable consent, not consent by default unless it is reasonable to think that consent would be forthcoming. Not sure how 'reasonable' would be defined. The Privacy Commissioner has some very interesting interpretations of Spam and what is allowed and what is not. In recent discussion with him, there were some pretty strict guidelines at least in his mind. If you have a complaint, send it in. He's cluey that the request removal ploy is not actual in many cases. Re the $3mill turnover cap, that's only going to be an excuse/reason/exception to next December. See NPP2, Use and Disclosure, for the details. Direct marketing is the confusing part. One would not consider some of the solicitations exactly marketing, eh? I'm going to suggest to the PC that he develop an Information Sheet on Consent. That isn't currently in the packet of specific concepts that his office has been developing. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From m.lean@qut.edu.au Wed Jan 9 22:34:52 2002 From: m.lean@qut.edu.au (Michael Lean) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 07:34:52 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Charities rethinking Donated computers Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020110073339.00aa6588@pop.qut.edu.au> Linkers, Thought this may be of interest - >CHARITIES SAY NO TO OBSOLETE CRAP > Issue: Nonprofits > In the United States alone, 53 million desktop computers are expected to > become obsolete, according to an oft-cited 1999 report by the National > Safety Council. While 80 percent of discarded computers head straight to > landfill, some are donated to charities, which are becoming more particular > about what they will and won't accept. In three years, computers donated > to Goodwill Industries have spiked from 50,000 per year to 150,000. > Those that > can't be sold in stores or used in the company's technology centers have to > be disposed of, at a cost to the organization. "Every dollar we spend on > disposing of unusable donations is a dollar we don't have to spend on our > career and other support services," said Christine Nyirjesy Bragale, a > spokeswoman for Goodwill Industries International. Even nonprofits in > developing nations are turning away donated computers. Bill Threlkeld, > administrator of the Washington, D.C., nonprofit Native Lands, used to > funnel donated computers to offices of nonprofits in the poor countries that > his organization advocates on behalf of. But in recent years, he's found > they're not interested. Figuring out what to do with donated equipment is > one piece in the larger puzzle of bringing nonprofits into the technological > era. Nonprofit technology organizations such as NPower and Compumentor are > expanding to meet growing demand for affordable software, consulting and > related costs in the sector. > [SOURCE: Wired, AUTHOR: Jenn Shreve] > (http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,49537,00.html) cheers, Mike From brd@austarmetro.com.au Thu Jan 10 00:06:59 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:06:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Telstra games. Message-ID: <3C3CCD13.10596DD1@austarmetro.com.au> Government 'preparing for T3' Elizabeth Gosch Jan 09, 2002 Australian IT http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,3560638%5E15319%5E%5Enbv%5E15306,00.html Reports that the Commonwealth is sounding out financial markets about a further Telstra sale this year show the Government is preparing to break its election promise, Labor claims. During the election campaign late last year, the Howard Government promised not to proceed with the sale of a third Telstra tranche before services in the bush improved. .... Telstra to slice $1bn off spending Geoff Elliott Jan 10, 2002 http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,3564129%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html Telstra'S two-year campaign to slash spending on Australia's communications networks looks set to top $1 billion by June 2002, with capital expenditure now at the lowest level in more than a decade. Telstra's spending is one of the foundation stones of the economy and the equivalent of 10 per cent of all private expenditure in the nation. The cutbacks, amid a worldwide trend for lower capital expenditure (capex) in the telco industry, has hurt companies that traditionally rely on Telstra's capital outlays, particularly engineering and construction firms. But the clamp on spending is being welcomed by Telstra analysts and the company's shares have won market support in the hope that the lower spending will protect profits with revenue growth in retreat. ... Canberra (ie the ACT) used to have the best roads in the country. After self government set in, the ACT government drastically reduced spending on road maintenance. The roads have now deteriorated drastically. What the bureaucrats didn't seem to realise is that you can only benefit from drastic spending reduction for a while, after which you need to increase it again (not necessarily to the former level) and establish a new plateau. I hope Telstra is not setting a new capex spending benchmark that will eventually result in the network going the same way as the ACT roads. -- It is dangerous for a national candidate to say things that people might remember. --Eugene McCarthy Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Thu Jan 10 00:13:03 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:13:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Communications-related Headlines for 1/9/02 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020110101013.00b3a100@ems.rmit.edu.au> >from Benton Foundation www.benton.org/News >-------------------------------------------------------------- > >OWNERSHIP >Groups Ask FCC To Reimpose Limits on Cable Ownership (CU) > >INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY >Who's Holding Back Broadband? (WP) [quotes Lessig] > >INTERNET >Government Sites Draw Web Traffic (WP) >U.S. Cyber Security Weakening (WIRED) > >Issue: E-Government >More Americans did business with a government Web site last year than paid >their credit card bills or traded stocks online, according to a study to be >released today. About 55 percent of adults with access to the Internet >visited a government Web site last year, said the National Technology >Readiness Survey, which was conducted by the Center for e-Service at the >University of Maryland and Rockbridge Associates. There's a huge range of >things people are doing online now - car registration, voter registration, >paying fines, enrolling in schools, filing taxes. . . ." said Charles Colby, >president of Rockbridge. The study found that people with more education are >more likely to take advantage of government services online. Sixty-eight >percent of college graduates visited government sites, compared with 38 >percent of people with no college experience. >[SOURCE: Washington Post, AUTHOR: Ellen McCarthy] >(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16998-2002Jan8.html) Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From cas@taz.net.au Thu Jan 10 00:20:11 2002 From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:20:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing In-Reply-To: <001901c198df$7dfc4be0$d8218790@telstra.com> References: <000601c198d8$87ab6880$0f00a8c0@A22P> <001901c198df$7dfc4be0$d8218790@telstra.com> Message-ID: <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:30:11PM +1000, Ann Moffatt wrote: > i agree with filipe, if you want to hear about the tedious details of adam's life, then create or join an Adam Todd Emotional Support mailing list - but don't encourage him to fill this list with his off-topic, irrelevant garbage. he is annoying enough (with his self-promoting lies and grandiose claims to be the first at everything) when he actually manages to stay on topic - but he is intolerable when he posts worthless crap about his personal life. craig -- craig sanders Fabricati Diem, PVNC. -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch From jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au Thu Jan 10 01:34:07 2002 From: jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:34:07 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Brace Yourself for the Segmented Internet Message-ID: This article at WebReview covers interesting topics recently discussed on LINK eg IPv6, trademarks & second level domain names, government intervention in Internet access, harmonized laws on ecommerce ... Brace Yourself for the Segmented Internet < http://www.webreview.com/pi/2001/12_20_01.shtml > By Andy Oram For a surprising range of reasons, governments will be tempted to take radical measures to enforce local policies. Nothing can stop the spread of the Internet?but as the influence of the Internet spreads, governments (sometimes reflecting popular opinion) are becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the de facto policies it brings. They will never cut off Internet access to the outside world because they need it for commercial, academic, and other informational reasons. But they may be tempted to form a kind of local area network for Internet users, enforcing their own particular policies with clearly demarcated gateways to the outside world. The result will be reminiscent of how private organizations segment their local area networks, so I call this possibility the segmented Internet. Such a development would be very troubling to those of us who like to bring cultures closer together and foster a better understanding of shared values. ... Regards Jeff Evans Online Services Manager, Small Business Online Department of State & Regional Development, Victoria, Australia -- _____________________________________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute or reproduce this e-mail or the attachments. If you have received this message in error please notify us by return e-mail. _____________________________________________________________ From brd@austarmetro.com.au Thu Jan 10 00:45:02 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:45:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] More [USA] Libraries Filtered In 2001 - Report Message-ID: <3C3CD5FE.7A9FA9BF@austarmetro.com.au> More Libraries Filtered In 2001 - Report By David McGuire, Newsbytes WASHINGTON, D.C., U.S.A., 09 Jan 2002, 3:40 PM CST http://newsbytes.com/news/02/173523.html A reported spike in the number of U.S. libraries using filtering software has rekindled concerns among some civil liberties advocates that library administrators may be bowing under federal pressure to limit access to adult materials on their computers. In a survey published by Library Journal, 43 percent of libraries polled said that they electronically filtered Internet access in 2001, up from 31 percent the previous year. Much of that increase may be a direct response to a federal legislation - signed early in 2001 - that requires libraries to install filtering software on their computers or risk losing federal funding for library-based Internet access, American Library Association (ALA) Internet Policy Specialist Claudette Tennant said today. "If that is the reason people are (filtering), I think they are acting too hastily," Tennant said. The ALA and American Civil Liberties Union have filed suit seeking to overturn the filtering law - called the Child Internet Protection Act. "I think the courts will determine that the legislation that has passed at the federal level is overreaching and unconstitutional," Tennant said. When and if CIPA formally takes effect, virtually all public libraries that receive federal funding will be forced to use filtering technology, Center for Democracy and Technology Policy Analyst Rob Courtney said today. "This (report) may be evidence that that effect may already be starting to shape," Courtney said. But both Courtney and Tennant agreed that other, less contentious, factors probably contributed equally to the increase in filtering use. Improvements in filtering technology are giving library administrators more power to tailor Internet access to their patrons, Tennant said. Whereas older filtering software was either "on" or "off," new technology allows filtering to be adjusted on a user-by-user basis, Tennant said. While both CDT and ALA oppose mandatory, across-the-board filtering, both organizations say that they are not opposed to voluntary use of Internet filtering technology. To the extent that the increase in filtering is a response to improved technology, it may be a positive development, Courtney said. "From this data alone, it's difficult to tell whether we should be concerned by these statistics or assured by them," Courtney said. Beyond the direct implications of the data, Tennant also expressed concern that proponents of mandatory filtering could hold up the report as an endorsement of stricter laws at the federal and state level. "It may give some people the license to take away the local discretion to use this technology wisely," Tennant said. "When it is crammed down your throat ... filtering is a blunt instrument." The Library Journal report also found that 96 percent of the libraries that use filtering software install it on their children's terminals, while about half use the software on all of their terminals. More results of the Library Journal study are at http://libraryjournal.reviewsnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA188739 . -- The covers of this book are too far apart. --Ambrose Bierce Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Thu Jan 10 01:05:43 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:05:43 +1100 Subject: FW: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15702@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> Hear hear! I don't have any feelings for Adam Todd one way or the other, but the anti-Adam Todd people are driving me up the wall! -----Original Message----- From: felipe rodriquez [mailto:felipe@xs4all.nl] Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2002 5:40 To: 'Richard Archer'; link@www.anu.edu.au Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing Hi, Can we please stop this collective Adam Todd bashing that is going on ? It is quite uncivilized, and the flames directed at Adam are themselves very much off-topic. If you don't like reading Adam Todd's emails, then start using filters to filter his email, but don't waste bandwidth in a collective electronic gangbang of Mr. Todd. I quite enjoy Adam's emails, and am happy to receive them. But I do get quite annoyed by the off-topic fascists on this list, that seem to have nothing better to do than complain about off-topic posts. Go get a life, and get a free copy of procmail to go with it ! Regards Felipe Rodriquez This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Thu Jan 10 01:07:13 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:07:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15703@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> It's not that I particularly want to hear from Adam Todd, but this is so much worse! Sure we should all try to stay on topic, but let's live and let live. PLEASE. If you want to flame Adam Todd, do it to him directly not to the whole Link list. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Sanders [mailto:cas@taz.net.au] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 10:20 To: Ann Moffatt Cc: felipe rodriquez; 'Richard Archer'; link@www.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:30:11PM +1000, Ann Moffatt wrote: > i agree with filipe, if you want to hear about the tedious details of adam's life, then create or join an Adam Todd Emotional Support mailing list - but don't encourage him to fill this list with his off-topic, irrelevant garbage. he is annoying enough (with his self-promoting lies and grandiose claims to be the first at everything) when he actually manages to stay on topic - but he is intolerable when he posts worthless crap about his personal life. craig -- craig sanders Fabricati Diem, PVNC. -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au Thu Jan 10 01:10:22 2002 From: Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au (Rik Harris) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:10:22 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 04:04:55PM +1100, Rick Welykochy wrote: > This thought occurred to me at work, when a colleague mentioned he was > attempting to get the company's name removed from a spammer's mailing > list: > > A spammer who has your email address and uses it to send you email is > in possession of data regarding your person. If you request that the spammer > remove your email address from the spam list, and continue receiving email, > is that a breach of the relevant Act? i.e. does the Act mandate that if you > request that information about you be removed from an "inappropriate" > database, it must be removed under penalty of law? > As much as I dislike SPAM... The Privacy Act only covers personal information: "personal information means information or an opinion (including information or an opinion forming part of a database), whether true or not, and whether recorded in a material form or not, about an individual whose identity is apparent, or can reasonably be ascertained, from the information or opinion." [Privacy Act 1988 Act No. 119 of 1998 as amended (including amendment by the Privacy Amendment (Private Sector) Act 2000)] An email address by itself does not necessarily constitute information that identifies an individual. Publishing your telephone number by itself (with no name) is not violating your PRIVACY, but it might be considered actionable conduct under some other law. I say "does not necessarily" because obviously some individual's identity could "reasonably be ascertained" from an email address. For example, my email address is pretty representative of my name and if that wasn't enough, a simple google search with my email address garners all sorts of information about me as an individual. > Continuing that line of thinking, if it is indeed an offense not to remove > an email address from a spam list upon request, consider the case of a > spammer on foreign shores. With the spectre of international enforcement of > the sovereign laws (there have already been such cases, such as Yahoo USA > and the French), could the spammer be found guilty and charged under Australian Given the resources available to the body responsible for the privacy laws, the difficulty of doing this would put it in the "very unlikely" category for action using an Australian law. Bottom line is - I don't think the Privacy Act is at all useful in stopping SPAM. IANAL, but I had to look into this for our own company. rik. -- ~ Specialists in IT Infrastructure ~ * Managed Services * Consulting * Product Supply & Support * Rik Harris The Fulcrum Group of Companies Chief Technology Officer Level 8, 628 Bourke Street ph: +61-3-8601-6100 Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia fx: +61-3-8601-6199 http://www.fulcrum.com.au/ From rick@praxis.com.au Thu Jan 10 01:20:30 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:20:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Online Community References: <000601c198d8$87ab6880$0f00a8c0@A22P> <001901c198df$7dfc4be0$d8218790@telstra.com> <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <3C3CDE4E.12D757B1@praxis.com.au> Craig Sanders wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:30:11PM +1000, Ann Moffatt wrote: > > i agree with filipe, > > if you want to hear about the tedious details of [_____]'s life, then > create or join a [_______] Emotional Support mailing list - but don't > encourage him to fill this list with his off-topic, irrelevant garbage. It is naive and over-the-top political correctness to postulate that a community is (should be) a level playing where all have the same regard for each other, all have the same status and garner the same respect. The reality is that any community is segmented into hierarchies based on experience, trust, reliability and the contribution made by an individual to the community. An individual who demonstrates repeated anti-social behaviour and repeatedly betrays its rules and members without remorse or modifying their behaviour after being told (the 'sociopath') will evenutually suffer the consequences of this behaviour. This begs the question of how a community can gather enough information to make such a drastic decision of singling out one member for 'persecution'. In face-to-face life, the signs are obviously there, and we are quite skilled in devining sociopathic behaviour ... it is one of our survival skills. (Well, some have this skill better honed than others!) In an online community, face-to-face is missing and our only guideline is the written word. This is simply not enough information to make an informed decision about character, behaviour and sociopathy. Other clues are needed, like behaviour in face-to-face life, in business, in other spheres of social interaction. I believe those of us who actively speak out against one individual on the list have this additional information. Thus we are seeing LINK balkanised into several camps regarding the behaviour if one individual. There are those who would like to that person banned from the list, those who could care less (the delete key is enough) and those who are either entertained or enlightened by the ramblings of the person. This is obviously a real/concrete LINK issue relating to just this one person since no other member of the list has evoked such responses or threads. And this is not a unique incident - it has gone on for the past three or more years. My own opinion? I am of the "do not ban anyone" camp. But! I do demand a right of reply and the right to criticise any member who behaviour borders on sociopathy, whose behaviour has betrayed the trust of other people and whose behaviour attemps to destroy parts of the community in which that person participates. Anyone whose behaviour demonstrates complete selfishness, self-centred self-promotion, downright lies and misleading of the community demands to be dealt with in the appropriate manner. My own course of action has been to personally ostracise such a person. Another mailing list made this decision en-masse (DNS .AU, in 1998). This is an effective means of dealing with the sociopath: deny them the succour they need for continuing their behaviour - deny them social interaction that feeds the behaviour until that behaviour improves. Those who sit back and read the postings of a sociopath, finding them entertaining and amusing, a bit of fun in an otherwise very technical discussion group have missed the point of the community and how it needs to be supported by its members. It is not simply a case of "every town has its village idiot." Rgds RickW -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Thu Jan 10 01:39:09 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:39:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Brace Yourself for the Segmented Internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au: >Brace Yourself for the Segmented Internet >< http://www.webreview.com/pi/2001/12_20_01.shtml > >By Andy Oram I think the threats are even more wide-ranging than those Andy describes. From: http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/II/PGPR01.html#MDIIF (Aug 2001) There is also the probability that market-determined directions that the Internet takes will work against its hitherto liberating influences, Concerns include: - the balkanisation of the Internet, as organisations carve off segments for their own purposes, rather than them continuing to be available as shared infrastructure; - the gradual dominance of virtual private networks (VPNs) running over the open public Internet. This creates the risk that the bandwidth available for the open communications component may reduce, choking response-times; and - reduced investment in bandwidth, as a result of corporations being unable to find business models that ensure return on investment, and hence the failure of the infrastructure to sustain the traffic. There is no guarantee that the underlying protocols (especially TCP, IP and DNS), and the processes whereby they are maintained, will survive in their current form. A revised version of the IP protocol, IPv6, is now operational in what is usually referred to as Internet 2 (Montfort 1999), but whether this will be retro-fitted to the open, public Internet is not yet certain. Moreover, its impacts if it is widely implemented are far from clear. It would be entirely feasible, for example, to adapt Internet architecture to support broadcast. The experimental MBone protocol did just this for radio transmissions. The risk is that powerful media organisations, supported by advertisers trying to sustain the old-fashioned direct marketing way of life that broadcast media created, may force change in Internet architecture that undermines interactivity in order to enable broadcast-mode transmissions. Finally, if the net continues to avoid attempts to control it, governments and corporations may, in collaboration, invent a new set of protocols. These might severely restrict the freedoms that threaten the powerful institutions, and force traffic onto new networks that implement the prospective, new, power-friendly protocols, resulting in the collapse of the Internet as it has been known since the early 1990s. There has been speculation that Microsoft's latest attempt to take advantage of its market-dominance, in the form of Windows XP and related products such as Passport and Hailstorm, may signal a move to adapt the Internet Protocol (IP) layer to suit its own ends and those of its business partners, such as the U.S. and U.K. governments. See Procomp(2001), EPIC (2001b), and Cringely (2001). Like the library in Eco's 'The Name of the Rose', the future information infrastructure may be devised to deny access to information rather than to enable it. -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Fellow Department of Computer Science The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 AUSTRALIA Information Sciences Building Room 211 Tel: +61 2 6125 3666 From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au Thu Jan 10 01:51:02 2002 From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:51:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Book Review - Language and the Internet Message-ID: <20020110115102.A8651@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> Language and the Internet David Crystal Cambridge University Press 2001 272 pages, bibliography, index A book review by Danny Yee http://dannyreviews.com/h/Language_Internet.html There is nothing really spectacular, provocative, or unexpected in _Language and the Internet_, but it offers a survey that is lively and accessible while solid and reliable. Crystal is often chatty and informal, but only a few times does he ring a wrong note (Unix talk does not, for example, work "using a normal phone connection between e-addresses"). Anyone curious about language use on the Internet should find _Language and the Internet_ compelling reading; some may also find it practically useful as a guide to different kinds of Internet communities. And it may not offer much that's novel to those with extensive online experience, but it is still interesting to see what familiar phenomena look like from the perspective of a linguist. After a brief introduction, Crystal devotes two chapters to what he calls "Netspeak", looking at features common to most Internet communications. He compares this to speech and writing and argues that it is different enough to be a genuine "third medium". He also considers some broad pragmatic themes (communicative effectiveness, spamming, lurking), the limitations of Net style guides (which often lapse into prescriptivism, even when they are prescribing idiosyncracy), and some widely occurring features (such as emoticons and abbreviations). Crystal continues with separate chapters on email, chatgroups, virtual worlds, and the Web, and even within those he is mindful of the diversity of Internet users and communities. He is also open about the limitations, in both quantity and quality, of the linguistic work that has been done on Internet language -- his presentation is heavily reliant on his personal experience, for example for statistics and generalisations about email, and a few key studies, such as Lynn Cherny's work on ElseMoo. A closing chapter looks briefly at the effects of the Internet on broader language, and at the use of the Internet by linguists and language students. -- %T Language and the Internet %A Crystal, David %I Cambridge University Press %C Cambridge %D 2001 %O hardcover, bibliography, index %G ISBN 0-521-80212-1 %P ix,272pp %K Internet, linguistics %Z a linguist on Netspeak: email, chat, virtual worlds, and the Web 17 December 2001 ------------------------------------------------------ Copyright (c) 2001 Danny Yee http://danny.oz.au/ Danny Yee's Book Reviews http://dannyreviews.com/ ------------------------------------------------------ From mischief@optushome.com.au Thu Jan 10 03:01:23 2002 From: mischief@optushome.com.au (Ralph Wallis) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:01:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au>; from Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 11:10:22AM +1100 References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> Message-ID: <20020110130123.A37387@localhost> On Thursday, 10 Jan 2002 at 11:10, Rik Harris wrote: > The Privacy Act only covers personal information: > > "personal information means information or an opinion (including > information or an opinion forming part of a database), whether > true or not, and whether recorded in a material form or not, about > an individual whose identity is apparent, or can reasonably be > ascertained, from the information or opinion." > [Privacy Act 1988 Act No. 119 of 1998 as amended > (including amendment by the Privacy Amendment (Private Sector) Act 2000)] > > An email address by itself does not necessarily constitute information > that identifies an individual. Publishing your telephone number by > itself (with no name) is not violating your PRIVACY, but it might be > considered actionable conduct under some other law. The privacy law particularly enforces opt out for (from?) telemarketers, who may only have a phone #. What is different about email? From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Thu Jan 10 04:51:13 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:51:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New linux backdoor virus gains smarts Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, January 7, 2002 - - - - - NEW LINUX BACKDOOR VIRUS GAINS SMARTS Computer security experts are studying at least two new viruses that target Linux machines. A variant strain of the Remote Shell Trojan (RST) virus has added capabilities, according to researchers. In addition to creating a "back door" that a hacker can use to take control of the system, the new RST.b variant also works as a "sniffer" that identifies other vulnerable computers on a network. SecurityFocus and Qualys, two companies currently researching new RST strains, said that differences in their two samples may indicate there are different strains on the loose. Independent studies of the new RST virus show that it attempts to connect to a Web address owned by an ISP in Seattle named iGlobalSales.com. Unlike viruses that target Windows machines, many of which exploit the Outlook program's automated e-mail capabilities, the new Linux strains are unlikely to spread as fast because they require users to download the code, security experts said. (Newsbytes, 5 January 2002) -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Thu Jan 10 04:50:31 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:50:31 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Appeals court upholds anti-spam law Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, January 7, 2002 - - - - - APPEALS COURT UPHOLDS ANTI-SPAM LAW Commercial e-mails, or spam, must contain valid return addresses and other identifiers that make it easier for consumers to remove themselves from mailing lists, according to a ruling upheld recently by a California appeals court. The defendants in that case, two Palo Alto-based companies, had argued that the previous ruling violated the commerce clause of the U.S. Constitution. Because Congress has yet to settle on any comprehensive anti-spam law, consumers must rely on state law. But that could result in a hodgepodge of restrictions on legitimate Web-based businesses. The California ruling requires that commercial e-mailers also mark their messages with an "ADV:" in the subject heading, and a special "ADV:ADLT" for messages linked to adult content. The Supreme Court in October refused to hear a challenge to a Washington state law that stringently regulates spam in that state. (Cnet, 7 January 2002) -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From rick@praxis.com.au Thu Jan 10 04:44:12 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:44:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: "Chirgwin, Richard" wrote: > On the not-so-funny side - embedding such information in the clickstream > makes the most common home e-mail platform completely unsuitable for any > real online democracy. > > >There is also clear evidence of automated voting, with scripts attempting > to post multiple times. Perhaps I have not followed the threads regarding online democracy carefully enough, but there seems to be several flaws in online voting: (a) without a means of identifying a voter, it is possible to cast multiple votes (b) if you can be identified, then the anonymity of voting is denied (c) in Aus, if you cannot be identified, there is no means of enforcing the compulsory voting legislation -rickw -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Thu Jan 10 04:52:42 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:52:42 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Public money, private code Message-ID: Linkers Anybody got some Australian stories? Tony Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, January 7, 2002 - - - - - PUBLIC MONEY, PRIVATE CODE Computer science professors and researchers are having a hard time disseminating their work to the public as open-source software because many university and federal lab administrators are more interested in privatizing the research. Former Los Alamos computer scientist Pete Beckman said important meteorological, traffic, and virus simulation software is being kept from the public because of intellectual property concerns. "There are whole departments that create valuable new technology, and they can't get it out to the world because [the lab] is trying to make money off it," he said. Although universities may not directly refuse requests for public distribution, securing permission to do so is often prolonged and tangled by red tape. The desire for profit is retarding scientific innovation, concluded Rebecca Eisenberg of the University of Michigan. This in turn negatively affects economic growth, according to Stanford law professor Larry Lessig. The trend among universities to make money from intellectual property can be traced back to the 1980 passage of the Bayh-Doyle Act, which allows institutions conducting federal research to copyright and sell their work. (Salon.com, 4 January 2002) -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Thu Jan 10 05:47:26 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:47:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Online democracy Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15705@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> Not regarding the ZDNet poll, but regarding electronic voting for government elections. The ACT recently tried this and it was apparently quite successful. States say e-vote cost is too high IT may have been a world-first, but the use of electronic voting and counting for the ACT's complex Legislative Assembly election will not lead to a rush on similar options across the country. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Welykochy [mailto:rick@praxis.com.au] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 2:44 To: link@www.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java "Chirgwin, Richard" wrote: > On the not-so-funny side - embedding such information in the clickstream > makes the most common home e-mail platform completely unsuitable for any > real online democracy. > > >There is also clear evidence of automated voting, with scripts attempting > to post multiple times. Perhaps I have not followed the threads regarding online democracy carefully enough, but there seems to be several flaws in online voting: (a) without a means of identifying a voter, it is possible to cast multiple votes (b) if you can be identified, then the anonymity of voting is denied (c) in Aus, if you cannot be identified, there is no means of enforcing the compulsory voting legislation -rickw -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Thu Jan 10 05:52:20 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:52:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick Welykochy : >Perhaps I have not followed the threads regarding online democracy carefully >enough, but there seems to be several flaws in online voting: ... There are some valuable materials available from Lorrie Cranor's site at AT&T in New York State: http://lorrie.cranor.org/voting/ http://lorrie.cranor.org/pubs/voting.html -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Fellow Department of Computer Science The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 AUSTRALIA Information Sciences Building Room 211 Tel: +61 2 6125 3666 From brd@austarmetro.com.au Thu Jan 10 06:37:44 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:37:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australia a global IT powerhouse, index reveals Message-ID: <3C3D28A7.E95AEFA3@austarmetro.com.au> Australia a global IT powerhouse, index reveals BY SANDRA ROSSI Australian ComputerWorld 10 January, 2002 13:34 SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA http://www.computerworld.com.au/IDG2.NSF/a/0004DF1E?OpenDocument&n=e&c=CP Australia lags behind New Zealand in the annual AT Kearney Globalisation Index and didn't even rank in the top 20. But when it comes to information technology Australia out-ranked its kiwi counterpart by miles. The only Asian nations to make the global top 20 were Singapore in the number three spot, New Zealand which was ranked 19 and Malaysia came in at number 20. Australia ranked 21 with Ireland taking the number one spot as the world's most global nation in the Index released in Washington today. However, when it came to IT Australia outstripped most nations and was placed second in the world only beaten by the United States. The Index covers 62 countries representing more than 95 per cent of the world's economic output and compares degrees of globalisation, levels of taxation and social spending. The United States and Canada remain the world's information technology leaders but the Oceania region comprising Australia and New Zealand is emerging leader. With higher levels of levels of connectivity than Scandinavian countries Australia ranked second in the Technology top 10 and New Zealand 7th. In Australia the online population topped 35 per cent in 2000 surpassing the United States while New Zealand ranked fourth in the number of Internet hosts per resident. Both countries ranked in the world's top five in providing secure servers per capita. Links to the article in Foreign Policy, to information on how the index was calculated and to the source data are at http://www.foreignpolicy.com/ There is a pdf version of the article at http://www.atkearney.com/pdf/eng/FP_article_2001_S.pdf There seems to be an assumption by the ComputerWorld author that high internet connectivity = IT powerhouse. To be fair to the Computerworld author the article states that "... Foreign Policy teamed up with management consulting firm A.T. Kearney to create an index that employs indicators spanning information technology, finance, trade, politics, travel, and personal communication to evaluate levels of global integration in dozens of advanced economies and key emerging markets worldwide." where Information Technology as is defined as "number of Internet users, Internet hosts and secure servers" Why am I reminded of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, telephone sanitisers, marketing consultants and Golgafrincham? -- Insane people are always sure that they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy. -- Nora Ephron Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From renelk@libertus.net Thu Jan 10 06:42:54 2002 From: renelk@libertus.net (Irene Graham) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:42:54 +1000 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> Message-ID: <2v8q3uspdoibpgragujqvmcchavf6g0nf0@4ax.com> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:10:22 +1100 Rik Harris wrote: [...] >> Continuing that line of thinking, if it is indeed an offense not to remove >> an email address from a spam list upon request, consider the case of a >> spammer on foreign shores. With the spectre of international enforcement of >> the sovereign laws (there have already been such cases, such as Yahoo USA >> and the French), could the spammer be found guilty and charged under Australian > > Given the resources available to the body responsible for > the privacy laws, the difficulty of doing this would put it in the > "very unlikely" category for action using an Australian law. > >Bottom line is - I don't think the Privacy Act is at all useful in >stopping SPAM. > >IANAL, but I had to look into this for our own company. I agree it's not useful in stopping spam in general, however, it may turn out to be useful in stopping unsolicited marketing material being sent by (some) Australian businesses by email to persons who have not consented to receive it. This seems likely to be the case in the following circumstances: - where the business has a turnover of more than $3M per year (and some businesses with less turnover) - where the *primary* purpose for which the email address was collected by the business was not direct marketing, that is, in instances where use for direct marketing is a secondary purpose of the collection. In such a circumstance, the business is required to obtain the recipient's consent to be sent direct marketing material. Under the Act, consent may be express or implied depending on a number of aspects relative to ease of obtaining consent etc. With regard to use of email addresses to send direct marketing material, the Federal Privacy Commissioner's Guidelines state: "It is unlikely that consent to receive marketing material on-line could be implied from a failure to object to it. This is because it is usually difficult to conclude that the message has been read and it is generally difficult to take up the option of opting out as it is commonly considered that there are adverse consequences to an individual from opening or replying to email marketing - such as confirming the individual's address exists. This may also apply where material is distributed using other automated processes. (This would not prevent an organisation from seeking opt in consent on-line if NPP 2.1 allowed it.)" http://www.privacy.gov.au/publications/nppgl_01.html The above suggests that a business could send an email seeking consent to send direct marketing, but failure to reply is unlikely to be considered, by the Privacy Commissioner, to constitute consent to the business to actually send direct marketing material. A question of course is how many consent-seeking emails a business could/would send. Irene From renelk@libertus.net Thu Jan 10 07:11:37 2002 From: renelk@libertus.net (Irene Graham) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:11:37 +1000 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> Message-ID: <5ebq3u8obbm047ju6vjittn213givl40fu@4ax.com> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:10:22 +1100 Rik Harris wrote: [...] > The Privacy Act only covers personal information: > > "personal information means information or an opinion (including > information or an opinion forming part of a database), whether > true or not, and whether recorded in a material form or not, about > an individual whose identity is apparent, or can reasonably be > ascertained, from the information or opinion." > [Privacy Act 1988 Act No. 119 of 1998 as amended > (including amendment by the Privacy Amendment (Private Sector) Act 2000)] > > An email address by itself does not necessarily constitute information > that identifies an individual. Publishing your telephone number by > itself (with no name) is not violating your PRIVACY, but it might be > considered actionable conduct under some other law. I'd be interested in hearing how you come to this conclusion about telephone numbers. Or, maybe I misunderstand - are you saying that a "telephone number by itself (with no name)" would not be "personal information" as defined in the Act? Irene From felipe@xs4all.nl Thu Jan 10 07:25:20 2002 From: felipe@xs4all.nl (felipe rodriquez) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:25:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd bashing In-Reply-To: <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> Dear Craig, >if you want to hear about the tedious details of adam's life, >then create or join an Adam Todd Emotional Support mailing >list - but don't encourage him to fill this list with his >off-topic, irrelevant garbage. > >he is annoying enough (with his self-promoting lies and >grandiose claims to be the first at everything) when he >actually manages to stay on topic >- but he is intolerable when he posts worthless crap about his >personal life. Please respect the following list policy statement: "BEHAVIOR Please respect your fellow members and keep discussion on topic, avoiding unreasonable criticism of those with whom you disagree. Prolonged discussion, discussion off topic or personal comments may cause the list owner to request that the discussion be held elesewhere." Kind regards Felipe Rodriquez From renelk@libertus.net Thu Jan 10 07:51:40 2002 From: renelk@libertus.net (Irene Graham) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:51:40 +1000 Subject: FW: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020110091403.020d3840@pop.primenet.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109172013.02ceaa38@pop3.corvu.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.20020110091403.020d3840@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:27:24 +1100 Jan Whitaker wrote: [...] > >Re the $3mill turnover cap, that's only going to be an >excuse/reason/exception to next December. That depends on the type of business though. Many businesses with <$3m turnover will remain exempt after Dec 2002. The only ones who will have to comply from 21 Dec 2002 are those for whom one of the following statements is true: - it is related to another business (for example its holding company or a subsidiary) that has an annual turnover of more than $3 million; - it discloses personal information for a benefit service or advantage; - it provides someone else with a benefit, service or advantage to collect personal information; - it is a contracted service provider for a Commonwealth contract. http://www.privacy.gov.au/publications/nppgl_01.html Irene From cas@taz.net.au Thu Jan 10 08:03:49 2002 From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:03:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd In-Reply-To: <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> References: <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> Message-ID: <20020110070349.GC23000@taz.net.au> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:25:20PM +1100, felipe rodriquez wrote: > >he is annoying enough (with his self-promoting lies and grandiose > >claims to be the first at everything) when he actually manages to > >stay on topic - but he is intolerable when he posts worthless crap > >about his personal life. > > Please respect the following list policy statement: please respect it yourself. or is hypocrisy allowed? let me get this straight - it's OK for Todd to post his garbage, and it's OK for you to post your complaints about the complaints against Todd, but it's NOT OK to actually complain about Todd. here's a hint: if you don't want a thread to continue, then cease posting on the subject. is that simple enough for you? as for the problem with Todd, himself....you just don't get it, do you? todd can be ignored when he manages to stay (vaguely) on-topic. most of the time, anyway...as long as his lies aren't too outrageous. the trouble is that he then feels he has permission to crap on about his private life, maliciously informing us all of the tedious details of the current moronic drama he's managed to cook up for himself. the guy is, as far as i can tell, a paranoid raving nutter with delusions of adequacy who doesn't care what KIND of attention he gets as long as he gets some. he pulls the same stunts on list after list. he'll say anything to get some attention. he doesn't even have any shame when his lies are exposed because that is even more attention for him. over the years i have seen him ruin at least 4 different mailing lists with his irrelevant crap until he eventually does something that pisses off the moderator and gets him kicked off. he got kicked off yet another list (isp-australia) only a few months ago, corresponding exactly with his reappearance on this list. he fouled one playground, so now he's come to defecate in ours. so now you know why I (and others) react when we see him trying his same old tricks here. we've seen it all before and we don't want him to ruin this list too. craig -- craig sanders Fabricati Diem, PVNC. -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch From bpa@iss.net.au Thu Jan 10 08:53:15 2002 From: bpa@iss.net.au (Brenda Aynsley) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:23:15 +1030 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd References: <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> <20020110070349.GC23000@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <3C3D486B.5C7B4C73@iss.net.au> Craig Sanders wrote: > Felipe said: > > Please respect the following list policy statement: > > please respect it yourself. or is hypocrisy allowed? > > let me get this straight - it's OK for Todd to post his garbage, and > it's OK for you to post your complaints about the complaints against > Todd, but it's NOT OK to actually complain about Todd. can we please all agree that if you want to read ATs posts then do so, if not don't. Having followed this thread all current members of this list are able to draw their own conclusions as to the nature of the list members who have been the most vocal on the issue including the reason for their verbosity and vehemence For myself I sent Adam to 'Coventry' about the time of the redhat business and I doubt that his or my life has become any better or worse for this practice in reality, however I have made my own little protest about adam's past behaviour and that's an end to it. Can we similarly put an end to this thread now please, once and for all! many thanks brenda -- ozbusinesspartners : helping you do better business -- Multimedia Production : Web Design and Implementation Training Development and Delivery : Technical Writing Project Management : Business Development Business Analysis : Business Communication via the 'Net -- Brenda Aynsley || http://www.ozbusinesspartners.com/ BA, DipSocSci(sociology), DipAppSci(computing), MACS, PCP Mobile:+61 (0) 412 662 988 From dazza@tucan.net Thu Jan 10 09:27:45 2002 From: dazza@tucan.net (Darrell Burkey) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:27:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd References: <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> <20020110070349.GC23000@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <005301c199b0$ae4f2200$563525cb@tucan.net> If particular postings are so disturbing to some, then why do they continue to read them? Most software provides for filtering or blocking any messages you want to. Simple and effective. Doctor, doctor, my arm hurts when I twist it like this. Well then ... Cheers. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 2/01/02 From rick@praxis.com.au Thu Jan 10 10:47:47 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:47:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd References: <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> <20020110070349.GC23000@taz.net.au> <005301c199b0$ae4f2200$563525cb@tucan.net> Message-ID: <3C3D6343.D0C800ED@praxis.com.au> Darrell Burkey wrote: > If particular postings are so disturbing to some, then why do they continue > to read them? How does one determine if a particular posting is disturbing if one does not read it? > Most software provides for filtering or blocking any messages you want to. > Simple and effective. Filtering is like AI: it is not effective. > Doctor, doctor, my arm hurts when I twist it like this. Well then ... More like this: LINK! LINK! My brain hurts when one of its members indulges in anti-social list behaviour, and I canna cope with it anymore. Well then ... expect either a change in the poster's anti-social behavior or expect the poster to be kill-filed. -rickw -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From grove@zeta.org.au Thu Jan 10 11:16:12 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:16:12 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd In-Reply-To: <005301c199b0$ae4f2200$563525cb@tucan.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Darrell Burkey wrote: > If particular postings are so disturbing to some, then why do they continue > to read them? > Most software provides for filtering or blocking any messages you want to. > Simple and effective. (I have been trying hard to stay out of this, but...) The problem is - the person in question is supposedly an "IT professional". This person brought to light a problem in some software but won't divulge the nature of it. No one really knows if it's a furphy (which means we have nothing to be concerned about) or reality (in which case the problem should be divulged to ensure it is fixed). This person was questioned by a journalist, who then proceeded to publish this (mis)information. The journalist wouldn't know if the problem was real or not, but just took this person's word as an "IT professional". There is no concrete proof about this technical problem and the publication of it's purported existance has caused the potential for concern by those considering using the software in question in a business context. It is not the first time this person has made extraordinary claims and then had them taken up by a journo or two. The problem is, not all journos are discerning about their sources. The person in question has a passion for tilting at invisible windmills and baying at anyone who will get him into the media spotlight which seems to happen on a regular basis. While I harbour no grudge against the person in question, as an IT professional myself, I take great umbrage at seeing this person being taken seriously. All I ask is that journalists think twice before going to this person for information, or being ready to take claims made by him seriously. The only other thing I ask is that the person in question also divulge the nature of the security flaw in question, if not publically, at least to the software vendor so it is fixed or make a public retraction. Then we can all get some sleep... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame74.html (I promise not to say anymore about this matter....) rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) From rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU Thu Jan 10 11:25:47 2002 From: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU (David Chia) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:25:47 +1100 (EST) Subject: Term of Use (Re: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68483@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: > A sidelight to this is the extent to which a condition like "don't use this > for X" is enforceable. T&C documents are not automatically held to be > contracts in America. Don't know where Australian case law is. So in the > case of cluegle, you have a company in one country breaching a T&C document > written in another country, where the T&C would itself have to be tested in > both countries. Not contract. Trespass. Just do not try to regularly download a large amount of data from ebay using robot. I doubt if national boundary matters much. I have to correct a wrong assumption I made in my last post regarding websites as public places. I remember the result in the ebay case on violating the terms of service but this detail about personal property had slipped my mind. Nevertheless it is not significant in my reasoning IF the terms of service is not infringed as I tried to speculate. That becomes important if the terms of service is violated. http://www.legallanguage.com/lawarticles/Clarida002.html The court also rejected the defendant's argument that the eBay site was "public," saying that it is instead eBay's personal property and only accessible to invitees under specific terms of use, which defendant violated. Under California law, the court noted, trespass exists where a defendant exceeds the scope of consent given by the owner, so even though the court did not decide the matter on contract grounds -- and in its order, refused to bar the defendant from using information gathered manually from the eBay site -- the violation of eBay's terms of use established a necessary element of the trespass claim, namely exceeding the scope of consent given to the invitee. David Chia From at@ah.net Thu Jan 10 12:27:04 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:27:04 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd In-Reply-To: <20020110070349.GC23000@taz.net.au> References: <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> <003e01c1999f$988d4750$0f00a8c0@A22P> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020110222337.03a54ec0@pop> >he got kicked off yet another list (isp-australia) only a few months >ago, corresponding exactly with his reappearance on this list. he >fouled one playground, so now he's come to defecate in ours. Yes strangely enough the VOTE to have me kicked off was a list of private votes AGAINST me being on the list. Of the 389 people on the list, 11 complained against me, but no one checked to ask how many were in favour of me. Seems like a dictatorship to me, but that's the Internet for you - it's not all democracy! What's even more amusing is since re subscribing to the list under an alias the very people who despised "Adam Todd" are actually supportive of the "Alias" character! So it's got nothing to do with what I write, it has to do with the use of my name! I so enjoy these kinds of bickering! As so many have said on Link (strangely intelligence does stand out) there are a few who think themselves 'lite enough to flame a name, not a person! Anyway, I've had enough. The idiocy of weak arguments by people who seriously lack any intellect and make totally wild accusations amazes me. Destroyed four lists huh? Love to know what they are, the only one I know I'm single handedly accused of destroying is the ADNA mail list when I exposed the truth! Strangely enough ADNA changed it's name six months later and the archives have thus vanished with the old regime. From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Thu Jan 10 12:33:59 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:33:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: At 2:44 PM +1100 10/1/02, Rick Welykochy wrote: >"Chirgwin, Richard" wrote: > >> On the not-so-funny side - embedding such information in the clickstream >> makes the most common home e-mail platform completely unsuitable for any >> real online democracy. >> >> >There is also clear evidence of automated voting, with scripts attempting >> to post multiple times. > >Perhaps I have not followed the threads regarding online democracy carefully >enough, but there seems to be several flaws in online voting: > >(a) without a means of identifying a voter, it is possible to cast >multiple votes No ... not even in non-IT enabled voting. > >(b) if you can be identified, then the anonymity of voting is denied Anonymity of voting isn't the problem in Oz ... I mean it's compulsory for us to vote. Anonymity of the vote is the problem. I'd guess that there'll have to be some safeguards built in to any online voting system to ensure that particular votes cannot be connected with particular users. > >(c) in Aus, if you cannot be identified, there is no means of enforcing the > compulsory voting legislation True. But that identification is necessary to establish that you have voted, that you are entitled to vote and the like. What I would need to be assured of is the next step ... that there is no way the contents of my vote can be traced back to me. I think that's the big hurdle for on-line voting. It is technically possible (indeed it's rather easy to implement), but that's not the problem. The problem is how much do I trust the government or other institutions to: 1. Maintain the anonymity of my vote ... even from themselves. 2. Use sufficient security to ensure that my vote contents and the like don't get into third party hands, and. 3. Don't overdo the security/procedures so that it is easy to tie my vote to me. At the moment I remain unconvinced that I can be satisfied of any of the above. Regards, -- *********************************** Redundancy: A politician with an airbag in his car. *********************************** From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Thu Jan 10 12:25:58 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:25:58 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The Adam Todd thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:16 PM +1100 10/1/02, Rachel Polanskis wrote: >(I promise not to say anymore about this matter....) May you all follow this course of action. I have been posting to people off-list suggesting that this discussion was of no help to the list. But this not has dampened down a potential flame-war. What is the email list equivalent of a volunteer bush fire brigade? I now post to the list the same request, as the discussion has taken on a life of its own unsupported by posts from Adam. I suggest that anybody wishing to discuss this not post to the list. I am happy (well sort of) to receive personal emails on this and no doubt some of you communicate direct to Adam - although he may be now offline. Tony -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From rick@praxis.com.au Thu Jan 10 12:44:12 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:44:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java References: Message-ID: <3C3D7E8C.8BD81EBF@praxis.com.au> Frank O'Connor wrote: > > At 2:44 PM +1100 10/1/02, Rick Welykochy wrote: > > > >Perhaps I have not followed the threads regarding online democracy carefully > >enough, but there seems to be several flaws in online voting: > > > >(a) without a means of identifying a voter, it is possible to cast > >multiple votes > > No ... not even in non-IT enabled voting. In non-IT "in person" voting, the fact you attended a voting site is recorded - thus you theoretically cannot vote twice. ( I wonder if your voting fact is actually analysed for (a) multiple votes and (b) non-attendance !!!! ) In IT "online" voting, if you cannot be identified, any number of votes from any number of voters, repeated as many times as desired by the individual voter, are submitted ... and there is no way to reliably detect multiple votes. > >(b) if you can be identified, then the anonymity of voting is denied > > Anonymity of voting isn't the problem in Oz ... I mean it's > compulsory for us to vote. Anonymity of the vote is the problem. I'd > guess that there'll have to be some safeguards built in to any online > voting system to ensure that particular votes cannot be connected > with particular users. > In IT "online" voting, your vote, voting site and your ID are recorded. So your indentity can be linked to your vote. > At the moment I remain unconvinced that I can be satisfied of any of the above. Agreed. > *********************************** > Redundancy: A politician with an airbag in his car. > *********************************** Agreed. Cheers RickW -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From dasssa@ozemail.com.au Thu Jan 10 13:07:59 2002 From: dasssa@ozemail.com.au (Dassa) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 23:07:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: <3C3D7E8C.8BD81EBF@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <014f01c199cf$723d3b20$0200a8c0@dassa> |> -----Original Message----- |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Rick Welykochy |> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:44 PM |> To: Frank O'Connor |> Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au |> Subject: Re: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java |> |> |> Frank O'Connor wrote: |> > |> > At 2:44 PM +1100 10/1/02, Rick Welykochy wrote: |> > > |> > >Perhaps I have not followed the threads regarding online democracy carefully |> > >enough, but there seems to be several flaws in online voting: |> > > |> > >(a) without a means of identifying a voter, it is possible to cast |> > >multiple votes |> > |> > No ... not even in non-IT enabled voting. |> |> In non-IT "in person" voting, the fact you attended a voting |> site is recorded - thus |> you theoretically cannot vote twice. ( I wonder if your |> voting fact is actually |> analysed for (a) multiple votes and (b) non-attendance !!!! ) |> |> In IT "online" voting, if you cannot be identified, any |> number of votes from any |> number of voters, repeated as many times as desired by the |> individual voter, |> are submitted ... and there is no way to reliably detect |> multiple votes. Actually on some online voting systems under development now, there are systems that address these issues. One such way is by each eligible voter being assigned a code. The code can be used to gain entry into a voting system only once. The voter casts their vote and leaves. The code becomes null and void and can not be used again. Only one session instance using the code may be made. Systems for authentication of the voter and the actual recording of the vote can be autonomous. |> |> > >(b) if you can be identified, then the anonymity of voting is denied |> > |> > Anonymity of voting isn't the problem in Oz ... I mean it's |> > compulsory for us to vote. Anonymity of the vote is the problem. I'd |> > guess that there'll have to be some safeguards built in to any online |> > voting system to ensure that particular votes cannot be connected |> > with particular users. |> > If you were paranoid you may suspect they are connecting voting identies to the actual votes in the manual system. A variety of methods could be used to do so. Fingerprinting etc. |> In IT "online" voting, your vote, voting site and your ID are recorded. |> So your indentity can be linked to your vote. Not in all cases, I know of at least two online voting systems under development that deal with these issues. Don't have details on some others but from some posts I've seen others are also addressing such issues. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au Thu Jan 10 13:19:35 2002 From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 23:19:35 +1100 Subject: [LINK] communities Message-ID: <20020110231935.A18977@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> One common path for an online discussion forum to take is to turn into what is effectively a local community. It may remain open to immigrants (new subscribers), but the bulk of the interactions are between people who know each other and who in many cases have been around for years -- and who hang around precisely because they know everyone else. [My examples: link, fight-censorship, anthro-l.] In such a setup, long-term residents get to take liberties newcomers don't. One of those may be going on ad nauseam about their personal lives in public (or whinging about other people doing that :-). I also think it's also good to have a few loose cannons around -- they may screw up occasionally, but they make us think about things we might not have otherwise, and they help to keep the bastards honest. Danny. From Michael.Skeggs@uk.uu.net Thu Jan 10 13:22:49 2002 From: Michael.Skeggs@uk.uu.net (Michael Skeggs) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:22:49 -0000 Subject: [LINK] Please stop Adam Todd Message-ID: <6C018331C997D5119C3C0008C7E6F4802B50FC@ukcamexch3.cbg.uk.corp.eu.uu.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Todd [mailto:at@ah.net] > What's even more amusing is since re subscribing to the list > under an alias > the very people who despised "Adam Todd" are actually > supportive of the > "Alias" character! > Oh my! My worst nightmare. Craig Sanders *is* Adam Todd! ;-) Regards, Michael Skeggs From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Thu Jan 10 22:46:44 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:46:44 +1000 Subject: Term of Use (Re: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68488@EXCHANGE_AU> Thanks, David - does anybody know if the same concept has been tested under Australian law? Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: David Chia [mailto:rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU] > Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 20:26 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: RE: Term of Use (Re: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com > > > > > A sidelight to this is the extent to which a condition like > "don't use this > > for X" is enforceable. T&C documents are not automatically > held to be > > contracts in America. Don't know where Australian case law > is. So in the > > case of cluegle, you have a company in one country > breaching a T&C document > > written in another country, where the T&C would itself have > to be tested in > > both countries. > > Not contract. Trespass. Just do not try to regularly download a large > amount of data from ebay using robot. I doubt if national boundary > matters much. > > I have to correct a wrong assumption I made in my last post regarding > websites as public places. I remember the result in the ebay case on > violating the terms of service but this detail about personal > property had > slipped my mind. Nevertheless it is not significant in my > reasoning IF the > terms of service is not infringed as I tried to speculate. > That becomes > important if the terms of service is violated. > > http://www.legallanguage.com/lawarticles/Clarida002.html > > > > The court also rejected the defendant's argument that > the eBay site was "public," saying that it is instead eBay's > personal property and only accessible to invitees under > specific terms of use, which defendant violated. Under > California law, the court noted, trespass exists where a > defendant exceeds the scope of consent given by the > owner, so even though the court did not decide the matter > on contract grounds -- and in its order, refused to bar > the defendant from using information gathered manually > from the eBay site -- the violation of eBay's terms of > use established a necessary element of the trespass > claim, namely exceeding the scope of consent given to > the invitee. > > > > > David Chia > From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Thu Jan 10 22:52:31 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:52:31 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68489@EXCHANGE_AU> Darryl, The technology may be feasible, but IMHO the Internet vote is not democratic. Transparency of democracy is fundamental. I know how the privacy of my paper vote is protected; any person can understand it - there's nobody looking over your shoulder when you vote. No matter how good the technology solution is, its mechanisms can't be understood by all voters. Richard Chirgwin > -----Original Message----- > From: Dassa [mailto:dasssa@ozemail.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 22:08 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java > > > |> -----Original Message----- > |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au > |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Rick Welykochy > |> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:44 PM > |> To: Frank O'Connor > |> Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au > |> Subject: Re: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java > |> > |> > |> Frank O'Connor wrote: > |> > > |> > At 2:44 PM +1100 10/1/02, Rick Welykochy wrote: > |> > > > |> > >Perhaps I have not followed the threads regarding > online democracy > carefully > |> > >enough, but there seems to be several flaws in online voting: > |> > > > |> > >(a) without a means of identifying a voter, it is > possible to cast > |> > >multiple votes > |> > > |> > No ... not even in non-IT enabled voting. > |> > |> In non-IT "in person" voting, the fact you attended a voting > |> site is recorded - thus > |> you theoretically cannot vote twice. ( I wonder if your > |> voting fact is actually > |> analysed for (a) multiple votes and (b) non-attendance !!!! ) > |> > |> In IT "online" voting, if you cannot be identified, any > |> number of votes from any > |> number of voters, repeated as many times as desired by the > |> individual voter, > |> are submitted ... and there is no way to reliably detect > |> multiple votes. > > Actually on some online voting systems under development now, > there are > systems that address these issues. One such way is by each eligible > voter being assigned a code. The code can be used to gain > entry into a > voting system only once. The voter casts their vote and leaves. The > code becomes null and void and can not be used again. Only > one session > instance using the code may be made. Systems for > authentication of the > voter and the actual recording of the vote can be autonomous. > > |> > |> > >(b) if you can be identified, then the anonymity of voting is > denied > |> > > |> > Anonymity of voting isn't the problem in Oz ... I mean it's > |> > compulsory for us to vote. Anonymity of the vote is the problem. > I'd > |> > guess that there'll have to be some safeguards built in to any > online > |> > voting system to ensure that particular votes cannot be connected > |> > with particular users. > |> > > > If you were paranoid you may suspect they are connecting > voting identies > to the actual votes in the manual system. A variety of > methods could be > used to do so. Fingerprinting etc. > > |> In IT "online" voting, your vote, voting site and your ID are > recorded. > |> So your indentity can be linked to your vote. > > Not in all cases, I know of at least two online voting systems under > development that deal with these issues. Don't have details on some > others but from some posts I've seen others are also addressing such > issues. > > Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. > From dassa@dhs.org Thu Jan 10 22:16:14 2002 From: dassa@dhs.org (Dassa) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:16:14 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68489@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <017001c19a1c$0900be50$0200a8c0@dassa> |> -----Original Message----- |> From: Chirgwin, Richard [mailto:Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au] |> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:53 AM |> To: 'dassa@dhs.org'; link@www.anu.edu.au |> Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java |> |> |> Darryl, |> |> The technology may be feasible, but IMHO the Internet vote is not |> democratic. Transparency of democracy is fundamental. I know |> how the privacy of my paper vote is protected; any person can understand it |> - there's nobody looking over your shoulder when you vote. |> |> No matter how good the technology solution is, its |> mechanisms can't be understood by all voters. Hello Richard As we progress with each generation becoming more familiar with the technology as it develops the issue of voters not understanding the mechanisms will become less. I would also consider the understanding and confidence in any new system a problem to be addressed by education and public relations. Not a reason for the technology to not be developed and used. It is also easy to underestimate the public and how they may adopt new technology. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Thu Jan 10 22:13:09 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:13:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australia a global IT powerhouse, index reveals In-Reply-To: <3C3D28A7.E95AEFA3@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020111080527.020ed940@pop.primenet.com> At 04:37 PM 10/01/02 +1100, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: >There seems to be an assumption by the ComputerWorld author that high >internet connectivity = IT powerhouse. Thanks for clarifying, BRD. Otherwise one would have been scratching one's head for many days over that story. Let's see if there are parallels of similar silliness. We have one of the highest uptakes of mobile phones in the world, hence we are a mobile telephony powerhouse! Do we make any? We have one of the highest uptakes of automobiles in the world, hence we are an automobile powerhouse! we make some, but we import a lot and aren't at all a powerhouse in manufacturing. Probably more examples. Books? Most printing info I see in books indicate the UK as source. Music? I read an interesting little piece in the local paper yesterday. Guess what is the third largest industry in Australia ................. the horse industry! Something over $8 billion to the economy annually, large employment, major growth in racing sector. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Thu Jan 10 23:34:07 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:34:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D1570B@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> I don't think it's an education/PR problem at all. The problem is real. Richard's point is that, with our current system of secret ballot, the ballot paper is anonymous. The voter knows the vote is untraceable, so long as no one is looking over his/her shoulder. With internet voting, you would require an ID number and password. This is needed for a myriad of reasons, including the need to ensure only eligible persons vote, and that they do so once only. It is technically possible to create a system where the actual content of the vote is not connected with the ID number, but it is equally possible to create a system where it IS linked - negating the principle of the secret ballot. The point is that it is not transparent. The voter would have to trust the authorities' word on this, which is a dangerous principle in a democracy. (The possible exception is if the source code is open and the voter can read the code - not likely!) A possible solution is to adopt a hybrid model, where the voter goes in person to the polling booth and is marked off the list. (This should be computerised, to eliminate fraud and multiple votes). The voter would then proceed to the voting counter, where they register their vote electronically. This way, the identification and voting processes are separated as they are now and the principle of secret ballot is protected. The downside would be that this system wouldn't make it any easier to vote - but to be honest, I don't think that this is the reason for low voter participation in countries without compulsory voting. How hard is it to walk to your nearest primary school on a Saturday morning? The positive benefits of electronic voting in this manner would be faster and more accurate counting. However, there would still be serious questions (not just PR and education issues!) to resolve about data security and the absence of scrutineers watching the physical counting. -----Original Message----- From: Dassa [mailto:dassa@dhs.org] Sent: Friday, 11 January 2002 8:16 To: 'Chirgwin, Richard'; link@www.anu.edu.au Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java |> -----Original Message----- |> From: Chirgwin, Richard [mailto:Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au] |> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:53 AM |> To: 'dassa@dhs.org'; link@www.anu.edu.au |> Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java |> |> |> Darryl, |> |> The technology may be feasible, but IMHO the Internet vote is not |> democratic. Transparency of democracy is fundamental. I know |> how the privacy of my paper vote is protected; any person can understand it |> - there's nobody looking over your shoulder when you vote. |> |> No matter how good the technology solution is, its |> mechanisms can't be understood by all voters. Hello Richard As we progress with each generation becoming more familiar with the technology as it develops the issue of voters not understanding the mechanisms will become less. I would also consider the understanding and confidence in any new system a problem to be addressed by education and public relations. Not a reason for the technology to not be developed and used. It is also easy to underestimate the public and how they may adopt new technology. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From lannet@lannet.com.au Fri Jan 11 00:01:25 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:01:25 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Australia a global IT powerhouse, index reveals In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020111080527.020ed940@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: ...and usefulness is precisely zilch. On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > I read an interesting little piece in the local paper yesterday. Guess what > is the third largest industry in Australia ................. > > the horse industry! Something over $8 billion to the economy annually, > large employment, major growth in racing sector. -- Howard. (who has little time for 4-legged hay burners) LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au Fri Jan 11 03:17:02 2002 From: ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au (Ian Johnston) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:17:02 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department Message-ID: >From Googol at http://aimsearch.hybernaut.com/3.html "5 Year Complete AOL Instant Messenger Logs In November of 2001 AOL Time Warner, responding to a subpoena from Attorney General John Ashcroft, made available to the Justice Department a complete archive of all private conversations held over AOL Instant Messenger (AIM). Through the power of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), Googol was able to obtain a copy of this entire logfile, totaling over 2 terabytes of conversations previously thought to be private. This unique resource provides insight into the minds of potential anti-American terrorists, cheating spouses, and countless computer neophytes." -- Ian Johnston From tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Fri Jan 11 00:12:27 2002 From: tom.worthington@tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:12:27 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Free Web Accessibility Seminar by US Expert, Tuesday, 4pm, Canberra Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020111101201.00a221e0@tomw.net.au> Bob Regan from Macromedia USA will be in Canberra next week to discuss accessibility of web sites. I have arranged for him to give an informal seminar at ANU on Tuesday (all welcome): Date: Tuesday, Jan. 15, 2002 Time: 4:00 pm to 5:00pm Venue: Room N101, CSIT Building [108] Speaker: Bob Regan, Product Manager for Accessibility, Macromedia USA Description: Creating an Accessible Web Abstract: As of June 2001, U.S. government departments and agencies are required to use technology that accommodates the needs of disabled workers. Web sites created by federal agencies must be accessible to the disabled. In September 2001, the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), issued draft guidelines for designing browsers, multimedia players and other Web-based user interfaces. However, one of the biggest hurdles in conforming to these standards lies in designers understanding them. Macromedia's has been working on tools and guidelines that help Web site developers implement accessibility, including work for Australian requirements. ps: Macromedia have engaged me to rework their accessibility guidelines for Australian use. See: "Macromedia Accessibility Solutions for Australia": http://www.tomw.net.au/as/ Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150 Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309 http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617 Visiting Fellow, Computer Science, Australian National University Publications Director & Past President, Australian Computer Society -------------------------------------------------------------------- Smart apartment prize awarded: http://www.tomw.net.au/2001/sa From Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au Fri Jan 11 01:07:05 2002 From: Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au (Rik Harris) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:07:05 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <5ebq3u8obbm047ju6vjittn213givl40fu@4ax.com> References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> <5ebq3u8obbm047ju6vjittn213givl40fu@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20020111000705.GM9081@fulcrum.com.au> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:11:37PM +1000, Irene Graham wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:10:22 +1100 Rik Harris > wrote: > [...] > > The Privacy Act only covers personal information: > > > > "personal information means information or an opinion (including > > information or an opinion forming part of a database), whether > > true or not, and whether recorded in a material form or not, about > > an individual whose identity is apparent, or can reasonably be > > ascertained, from the information or opinion." > > [Privacy Act 1988 Act No. 119 of 1998 as amended > > (including amendment by the Privacy Amendment (Private Sector) Act 2000)] > > > > An email address by itself does not necessarily constitute information > > that identifies an individual. Publishing your telephone number by > > itself (with no name) is not violating your PRIVACY, but it might be > > considered actionable conduct under some other law. > > I'd be interested in hearing how you come to this conclusion about > telephone numbers. Or, maybe I misunderstand - are you saying that a > "telephone number by itself (with no name)" would not be "personal > information" as defined in the Act? Yep, that's what I'm saying and the Act only seems to cover "personal information". This is definately only my opinion, but looking at the act, a telephone number, by itself with no name, could not be considered "personal information" and therefore would not be covered by the National Privacy Principles unless it was decided that reverse directories were common enough that a name could "reasonably be ascertained." The fuzziness of the Privacy Act is a double-edged sword - in some ways it's not useful to stop the practices that some people don't like, but in others it's quite awkward to understand how to comply. Discussions with consultants and the OFPC result in similarly fuzzy responses. For example, you give someone your business card when you meet with them, you've just given them personally identifiable information. What's the primary purpose of that exchange? As someone who provides services, I'd like to think someone would pick up my card and phone me any time they have an infrastructure need, regardless of why I gave them my card in the first place. As a customer, do I want to be receiving information from suppliers about their product range? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Is it "reasonable" for someone to use your business card to contact you? to send you some information on their products? to send you some information on other vendors products? to send details to a related company? For what purpose? to send details to an unrelated company? For what purpose? The answer seems to be "it depends." There are plenty of other examples. It's going to take a long time and a variety of test cases before this fuzziness is clearer. rik. -- ~ Specialists in IT Infrastructure ~ * Managed Services * Consulting * Product Supply & Support * Rik Harris The Fulcrum Group of Companies Chief Technology Officer Level 8, 628 Bourke Street ph: +61-3-8601-6100 Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia fx: +61-3-8601-6199 http://www.fulcrum.com.au/ From Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au Fri Jan 11 01:15:06 2002 From: Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au (Rik Harris) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:15:06 +1100 Subject: FW: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109172013.02ceaa38@pop3.corvu.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.20020110091403.020d3840@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <20020111001505.GN9081@fulcrum.com.au> On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:51:40PM +1000, Irene Graham wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:27:24 +1100 Jan Whitaker wrote: > [...] > > > >Re the $3mill turnover cap, that's only going to be an > >excuse/reason/exception to next December. > > That depends on the type of business though. Many businesses with <$3m > turnover will remain exempt after Dec 2002. The only ones who will have to > comply from 21 Dec 2002 are those for whom one of the following statements > is true: > > - it is related to another business (for example its holding company or a > subsidiary) that has an annual turnover of more than $3 million; > - it discloses personal information for a benefit service or advantage; > - it provides someone else with a benefit, service or advantage to collect > personal information; > - it is a contracted service provider for a Commonwealth contract. > http://www.privacy.gov.au/publications/nppgl_01.html Or it provides health services and holds health records. Section 6D 4. b. of the Amended Privacy Act 1988. rik. -- ~ Specialists in IT Infrastructure ~ * Managed Services * Consulting * Product Supply & Support * Rik Harris The Fulcrum Group of Companies Chief Technology Officer Level 8, 628 Bourke Street ph: +61-3-8601-6100 Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia fx: +61-3-8601-6199 http://www.fulcrum.com.au/ From dlochrin@dot.net.au Fri Jan 11 01:15:07 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:15:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68489@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020111111507.007a1a00@mail.dot.net.au> At 07:52 AM 11-01-2002 +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: >The technology may be feasible, but IMHO the Internet vote is not >democratic. Transparency of democracy is fundamental. I know how the privacy >of my paper vote is protected; any person can understand it - there's nobody >looking over your shoulder when you vote. > >No matter how good the technology solution is, its mechanisms can't be >understood by all voters. An interesting point... I also believe transparency of process is essential. A question arises about how such technology would be used in decision-making and how it might change the process of government, even if the authentication, privacy, and other technology issues were solved. I see little value in using the Internet for ordinary elections. The present system works well and transparently, and I suspect the theatre & hullabaloo which surrounds the process is good for democracy. Anonymous Internet voting would also remove the feedback candidates receive about trends by polling booth. Internet-based polling on *specific issues*, which the British are considering initially, would create an expectation that governments would take note of the results. This may or may not be a good thing, in that the decision-making process would tend to dilute input from the bureaucracy with public input which may carry more weight than it deserves and reduce consistency in decision-making. (These days the public service probably has much less weight anyway, as policy decisions seem to be made largely by the inner cabinet.) I'm afraid I can't see the local mob liking this. They mostly seem to prefer to get as far away from the electors as possible between elections! But the moral may be that we should think this through before rushing in to develop the technology. David ================================================= David Lochrin Networked Systems Consultancy Pty. Limited ABN 20 074 899 853 +61 2 9363 1094 (telephone) 9363 9622 (FAX) http://www.dot.net.au/~dlochrin PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= From rw@firstpr.com.au Fri Jan 11 01:24:08 2002 From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:24:08 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department References: Message-ID: <3C3E30A8.DDBE6AD8@firstpr.com.au> http://aimsearch.hybernaut.com/aimsearch This seems to me to be an early April the First thing - and/or a thought-provoking exercise in what could happen. A Google search for hybernaut.com has shows just a few things of no consequence. Most of the links and buttons go to Google, and the search function seems to generate similar text no matter what user numbers are entered. It deemed it worthy of no more than 5 seconds analysis, and the words "turban" and "sheep" remain in my mind. The worrying thing is that story of massive AIM log files being handed over to the court and then to anyone else via FOI doesn't seem improbable. I was almost prepared to believe it - the first part anyway. - Robin From brd@austarmetro.com.au Fri Jan 11 01:29:25 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:29:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australia a global IT powerhouse, index reveals References: Message-ID: <3C3E31E5.1F3A74A9@austarmetro.com.au> The United Nations has a thing called the System of National Accounts which measures the economic activity of a nation. Any economic activity. So something like the the oil spill created by the Exxon Valdez is included and is treated as a positive. What most environmentalists consider to be an environmental disaster of enormous proportions is actually deemed to contribute to the economy using the GDP measurement system! [1] So economic activities such as horse racing and any other form or gambling are not veiwed by economists and politicians as useless. [1] http://mha-net.org/msb/docs/waring.htm Howard Lowndes wrote: > > ...and usefulness is precisely zilch. > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > > > I read an interesting little piece in the local paper yesterday. > Guess what is the third largest industry in Australia .............. > > > > the horse industry! Something over $8 billion to the economy > > annually, large employment, major growth in racing sector. -- In politics stupidity is not a handicap. --Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821) Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Jan 11 01:54:10 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:54:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department References: <3C3E30A8.DDBE6AD8@firstpr.com.au> Message-ID: <3C3E37B2.C75C21EA@praxis.com.au> Robin Whittle wrote: > The worrying thing is that story of massive AIM log files being handed > over to the court and then to anyone else via FOI doesn't seem > improbable. I was almost prepared to believe it - the first part > anyway. Why would FOI apply? The logs are not government documents. Or does FOI apply to evidence gathered for the courts? -rickw -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au Fri Jan 11 04:58:37 2002 From: ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au (Ian Johnston) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:58:37 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Small business domain name licence holders subsidising others? In-Reply-To: <3C32881D.5D966A45@aarnet.edu.au> Message-ID: Glen Turner wrote in LINK on Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:10 PM > Ian Johnston wrote: > > Hopefully, the users of these Closed 2LDs will also meet a > > fair share of the cost of running auDA (NB: a possibly public > > policy issue). Under the current auDA regulatory regime, > > the cost appears to have been met mainly by com.au > > licence holders. > > As it should be. The regulation necessary for .edu.au has been > done in the past through existing education sector policy > mechanisms at a very low marginal cost. Glen I am encouraged by the recent advice of Evan Arthur (DEST) to LINK that discussions are currently occurring between auDA and representatives of the education and training sector on the issue of the sector's contribution to the costs of operating .au . I understand that discussions may be taking place between auDA and NOIE on the gov.au sector's contribution to the costs of operating .au. A few questions still need to be answered. For example, under the new auDA funding model: - what (if any) contribution will CSIRO make for its access to and use of the .au space? - what (if any) contribution will org.au domain name licence holders make? On this second question, it seems grossly unfair that relatively wealthy org.au domain name licence holders - there were 7841 licence holders at 18 Oct 2001 - will not pay any Registry Fee and may not pay any auDA Domain Name Fee . As Mark Hughes so relevantly and pointedly put it in LINK : ... the idea that ALL the existing .asn.au, org.au, id.au domain name holders are deserving of subsidisation by struggling small Australian businesses with .com.au names gets less than no support from me. Mark makes some other very good points. When the contributions of each 2LD to the cost of operating auDA are known, the important question of whether the relative contributions are appropriate may be answered. Indications to date are that some of these contributions are neither fair nor economically efficient. Moreover, network externalities arising from Australian small businesses using domain names appear to be accruing to governments and big businesses on a significant scale. The bottom line is that Australian small businesses are subsidising others and this is causing resource misallocation, potentially on a national scale. > If commercial entities require a heavier weight policy and > regulatory mechanism then they should carry the additional > costs of that mechanism. I agree, Glenn. Any greater regulatory effort on the part of auDA relating to com.au domain name licences ought to reflect in the cost of these licences accordingly. Cost recovery, user pays and universal access principles are a good starting point for evaluation of the auDA costing model. I suggest there is an emerging need for some academic economic and social research on .au domain name licence costing, pricing and subsidies. Regards Ian -- Ian Johnston, Policy Consultant Small Enterprise Telecommunications Centre Limited (SETEL) PO Box 58 Jamison ACT 2614 Australia 02 6258 3409 (B / F) 02 6259 7777 (B) 0413 990 112 (M) www.setel.com.au mailto:ian.johnston@setel.com.au SETEL is a national association advancing and representing the interests of Australian small businesses as consumers of telecommunications and electronic commerce. From cas@taz.net.au Fri Jan 11 02:02:33 2002 From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:02:33 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020111010233.GF23000@taz.net.au> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:17:02AM +0800, Ian Johnston wrote: > >From Googol at http://aimsearch.hybernaut.com/3.html > > "5 Year Complete AOL Instant Messenger Logs > > In November of 2001 AOL Time Warner, responding to a subpoena from Attorney > General John Ashcroft, made available to the Justice Department a complete > archive of all private conversations held over AOL Instant Messenger (AIM). > Through the power of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), Googol was able > to obtain a copy of this entire logfile, totaling over 2 terabytes of > conversations previously thought to be private. This unique resource > provides insight into the minds of potential anti-American terrorists, > cheating spouses, and countless computer neophytes." looks like a hoax. for starters, it's not at google.com, it's at hybernaut.com. secondly, they spell it "googol" rather than "google". thirdly, entering any two AIM user ids in the search fields produces the same (randomly generated??) "conversation" - with line 3 of the conversation reading: 12:52 AM, Friday January 11th, 2002 -- 109: Not surprisingly, Google has objected to the cheeky appropriation of its trademark, and the site hoster has agreed to comply to its request to remove site by January 14th. We notice that already the "Google" logo has been altered to "Googol". craig -- craig sanders Fabricati Diem, PVNC. -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch From brd@austarmetro.com.au Fri Jan 11 02:03:47 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:03:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive Message-ID: <3C3E39F3.BC74C3F7@austarmetro.com.au> More economic activity: SMS is text-spensive Kate Mackenzie January 11, 2002 Australian IT http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,3569128%5E15302%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html Text messaging in Australia is now among the most expensive in the world - and it's not likely to get any better. This follows Optus's decision to match Telstra's recent Short Message Service price rise. An Optus spokeswoman said it would lift its charges 3c to 25c per message from February 1. Australia's SMS prices compare unfavourably with many other countries. Singaporeans, for instance, pay about 5c per message, Danes about 10c and Germans about 15c. But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line with most current market rates. Like any business we must be focused on striking a balance between reducing our costs while providing cost-effective and competitive services". ... -- It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it is true. -- Bertrand russell, 1928 - On the Value of Scepticism Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From reagan@whatever.net.au Fri Jan 11 02:14:17 2002 From: reagan@whatever.net.au (Reagan Blundell) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 01:14:17 -0000 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department References: Message-ID: <011b01c19a3d$4c40c400$01000001@fraggle> > >From Googol at http://aimsearch.hybernaut.com/3.html > > "5 Year Complete AOL Instant Messenger Logs > > In November of 2001 AOL Time Warner, responding to a subpoena from Attorney > General John Ashcroft, made available to the Justice Department a complete > archive of all private conversations held over AOL Instant Messenger (AIM). > Through the power of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), Googol was able > to obtain a copy of this entire logfile, totaling over 2 terabytes of > conversations previously thought to be private. This unique resource > provides insight into the minds of potential anti-American terrorists, > cheating spouses, and countless computer neophytes." > 30 seconds of playing around on their search page shows that no matter what random characters I put in as the usernames of the chat participants, I get back a page with a roughly list of pseudo-random chat logs. Doesn't seem to be much of a privacy concern there. -- Reagan Blundell From peter@batchelors.net Fri Jan 11 02:21:13 2002 From: peter@batchelors.net (Peter Batchelor) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:21:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020111121902.03f409d0@pop-server> Good parody :-) Just as well the real thing isn't available - I'd be surprised if it was only 2 terabytes though..... Peter At 10:17 11/01/02 +0800, Ian Johnston wrote: > From Googol at http://aimsearch.hybernaut.com/3.html > >"5 Year Complete AOL Instant Messenger Logs > >In November of 2001 AOL Time Warner, responding to a subpoena from Attorney >General John Ashcroft, made available to the Justice Department a complete >archive of all private conversations held over AOL Instant Messenger (AIM). >Through the power of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), Googol was able >to obtain a copy of this entire logfile, totaling over 2 terabytes of >conversations previously thought to be private. This unique resource >provides insight into the minds of potential anti-American terrorists, >cheating spouses, and countless computer neophytes." > >-- >Ian Johnston Internet Technology Services 24A Speight Street Thornbury Victoria 3071 Australia Phone: +613 8430 3532 Mobile: 0425 733 532 http://www.batchelors.net/ From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Fri Jan 11 02:28:01 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:28:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <20020111000705.GM9081@fulcrum.com.au> References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> <5ebq3u8obbm047ju6vjittn213givl40fu@4ax.com> <20020111000705.GM9081@fulcrum.com.au> Message-ID: Rik Harris : >Is it "reasonable" for someone to use your business card to contact you? > to send you some information on their products? > to send you some information on other vendors products? > to send details to a related company? For what purpose? > to send details to an unrelated company? For what purpose? It's long been accepted that privacy is an interest of individuals, but not of organisations; so companies, associations, etc. are left out; sometimes intentionally sometimes accidentally; sometimes effectively sometimes ambiguously. As a 30-year veteran, I can honestly say that I've never solved the problem of whether privacy protections should extend to unincorporated businesses, and particularly to sole traders. 'In general, yes' is about as clear as it gets. And I've never come up with a clear formulation in relation to individuals acting in roles as agents of organisations. In practical terms, Privacy Commissioners, tribunals and courts are likely to interpret 'business' as a very broad purpose, and allow a great deal of latitude. The term 'business card' would seem to be sufficient to imply that the identity is not as deserving of protection as roles like consumer, citizen, advocate, etc. We've seen an explosion in the use of nyms in recent years. People often assume it's cheating consumers that use nyms; but I'm actually talking about people in call-centres, who routinely use a name other than their commonly-used name. I support that, of course, as long as they're pseudonyms that can be related back to the individual in the event of (a) follow-up enquiries, and (b) complaints. Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au and Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au could be reasonably construed to be 'business identities', and the privacy protections could be lower as a result; whereas Rik.Harris@.net.au might be seen to be prima facie private and therefore more strongly protected. The above are musings, and *not* interpretations of that disgusting piece of anti-privacy legislation that recently became [in]effective ... -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Fellow Department of Computer Science The Australian National University Canberra ACT 0200 AUSTRALIA Information Sciences Building Room 211 Tel: +61 2 6125 3666 From mischief@optushome.com.au Fri Jan 11 01:38:34 2002 From: mischief@optushome.com.au (Ralph Wallis) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:38:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department In-Reply-To: ; from ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au on Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:17:02AM +0800 References: Message-ID: <20020111113834.A48843@localhost> And you can check adam todd's conversation with craig saunders here: http://aimsearch.hybernaut.com/aimsearch?q1=AdamTodd&q2=CraigSanders&btnG=Googol+AIM+Search [which is to say: it's a joke, joyce.] On Friday, 11 Jan 2002 at 10:17, Ian Johnston wrote: > >From Googol at http://aimsearch.hybernaut.com/3.html > > "5 Year Complete AOL Instant Messenger Logs > > In November of 2001 AOL Time Warner, responding to a subpoena from Attorney > General John Ashcroft, made available to the Justice Department a complete > archive of all private conversations held over AOL Instant Messenger (AIM). > Through the power of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), Googol was able > to obtain a copy of this entire logfile, totaling over 2 terabytes of > conversations previously thought to be private. This unique resource > provides insight into the minds of potential anti-American terrorists, > cheating spouses, and countless computer neophytes." > > -- > Ian Johnston > From rw@firstpr.com.au Fri Jan 11 02:44:09 2002 From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:44:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Archive of all private conversations made available to US Justice Department References: <3C3E30A8.DDBE6AD8@firstpr.com.au> <3C3E37B2.C75C21EA@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <3C3E4369.EAE5A6E1@firstpr.com.au> Rick Welykochy wrote: > Why would FOI apply? The logs are not government documents. Or does > FOI apply to evidence gathered for the courts? Yes. My cup of weakish tea had not yet kicked in sufficiently to help me with the very difficult task of determining what might be possible under American law. Its hard to say what absolute limits really apply there - considering some of the bizarre things I hear about. - Robin From jmorris@intercode.com.au Fri Jan 11 03:11:19 2002 From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:11:19 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] When the f-word is no longer taboo, what will be? Message-ID: Interesting article by Andrew Ford: http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/11/text/opinion3.html Raises some questions which don't seem to have obvious answers. - James -- James Morris From rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU Fri Jan 11 03:46:42 2002 From: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU (David Chia) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:46:42 +1100 (EST) Subject: Term of Use (Re: [LINK] Re: http://www.cluegle.com In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68488@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: > Thanks, David - does anybody know if the same concept has been tested under > Australian law? It seems that Victoria first introduced the idea of 'computer trespass' in May 1988 (much earlier than US?) and even used the concept of 'entry within the scope of the permission' (terms of service?). The previous university sys admin put such notice during login process. I have been reading it for a few years but I have associate computer trespass to warning against system break in rather than website terms of service until recently. http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2001/handelsmann-2001-12.html This issue was dealt with by the Supreme Court of Victoria in 1993 in the case DPP v. Murdoch. In that case, the defendant had been prosecuted for charges of computer trespass under the Summary Offences Act. Judge Kenneth Hayne held on appeal that the relevant computer offense provisions of the act do not distinguish between persons who have no permission to enter a computer system and persons (such as employees) who have authority of some kind to enter the computer system. Rather the sections invite attention to whether the particular entry or gaining of access to the computer system was with or without lawful authority: If [an employee] has a general and unlimited permission to enter the system then no offense is proved. If however there are limits upon the permission given to him to enter that system, it will be necessary to ask was the entry within the scope of the permission? If it was, then no offense will be committed; if it was not, then he has entered the system without lawful authority to do so. David Chia From cas@taz.net.au Fri Jan 11 03:53:55 2002 From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:53:55 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020111111507.007a1a00@mail.dot.net.au> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C68489@EXCHANGE_AU> <3.0.5.32.20020111111507.007a1a00@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: <20020111025355.GI23000@taz.net.au> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 11:15:07AM +1100, David Lochrin wrote: > A question arises about how such technology would be used in > decision-making and how it might change the process of government, > even if the authentication, privacy, and other technology issues were > solved. i think it would be interesting to see a web site where users logged in (providing only enough personal info to identify their state/federal electorates), and were able to record how they would vote on whatever issues are before the parliament at the moment. alternatively, vote on issues that *were* before parliament but have just been voted on. then it would be possible to compare how the people of an electorate would have voted with how their Representative actually voted. the biggest problem with this, though, is the same as in any survey where the participants are self-selected rather than randomly selected - it skews the results towards the most energetic / vocal / interested / opinionated voters (as the rest wouldn't bother voting). still, i think it would be interesting. > I see little value in using the Internet for ordinary elections. > The present system works well and transparently, and I suspect the > theatre & hullabaloo which surrounds the process is good for > democracy. Anonymous Internet voting would also remove the > feedback candidates receive about trends by polling booth. i'd have to agree there. OTOH, i'd also like to see australia moving towards a more particpatory democracy (where citizens vote on issues rather than just elect representatives)...but i'd be terrified of seeing that implemented without a strong constitutionally-protected Bill of Rights to prevent the excesses of popular intolerance/tyranny - i.e. the constituion should protect the rights of all individuals against unjust legislation and discrimination, even when those individuals (or their activities) are unpopular. the sad truth is that most voters aren't terribly bright and are easily manipulated - consent is routinely manufactured by the media for the most appalling human rights violations. all it takes is a couple of articles in the low-brow press to whip up hysteria against refugees or gays or drug users or homeless kids or smokers or moslems or jews or whatever minority or non-"mainstream" group makes a useful distraction/scapegoat at the time. > Internet-based polling on *specific issues*, which the British are > considering initially, would create an expectation that governments > would take note of the results. not necessarily. i think it's useful even as an informal poll just to check up on whether your local Rep consistently votes with or against the prevailing attitudes in your electorate. craig -- craig sanders Fabricati Diem, PVNC. -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch From lannet@lannet.com.au Fri Jan 11 04:58:25 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:58:25 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive In-Reply-To: <3C3E39F3.BC74C3F7@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: In SG, SMS is free on the M1 carrier and is used heavily by the kids. I used Singtel to connect back to AU and the SMS on my Mobilenet bill was AU$0.08 per message as against the internal cost then of AU$0.22. Voice was about the same rate as internal peak rates. On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > More economic activity: > > SMS is text-spensive > Kate Mackenzie > January 11, 2002 > Australian IT > http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,3569128%5E15302%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html > > Text messaging in Australia is now among the most expensive in the world - > and it's not likely to get any better. > > This follows Optus's decision to match Telstra's recent Short Message > Service price rise. An Optus spokeswoman said it would lift its charges 3c > to 25c per message from February 1. Australia's SMS prices compare > unfavourably with many other countries. Singaporeans, for instance, pay > about 5c per message, Danes about 10c and Germans about 15c. > > But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line with > most current market rates. Like any business we must be focused on striking > a balance between reducing our costs while providing cost-effective and > competitive services". > > ... > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Jan 11 05:37:32 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:37:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] When the f-word is no longer taboo, what will be? References: Message-ID: <3C3E6C0C.A09EF79B@praxis.com.au> James Morris wrote: > Interesting article by Andrew Ford: > http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/11/text/opinion3.html > Raises some questions which don't seem to have obvious answers. The obvious answer to which words are replacing ---- and ---- as taboo is: I cannot utter them. -rickw -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au Fri Jan 11 05:48:18 2002 From: Rik.Harris@fulcrum.com.au (Rik Harris) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:48:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> <5ebq3u8obbm047ju6vjittn213givl40fu@4ax.com> <20020111000705.GM9081@fulcrum.com.au> Message-ID: <20020111044818.GQ9081@fulcrum.com.au> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 12:28:01PM +1100, Roger Clarke wrote: > > Rik Harris : > >Is it "reasonable" for someone to use your business card to contact you? > > to send you some information on their products? > > to send you some information on other vendors products? > > to send details to a related company? For what purpose? > > to send details to an unrelated company? For what purpose? > > It's long been accepted that privacy is an interest of individuals, > but not of organisations; so companies, associations, etc. are left > out; sometimes intentionally sometimes accidentally; sometimes > effectively sometimes ambiguously. > The term 'business card' would seem to be sufficient to imply that > the identity is not as deserving of protection as roles like > consumer, citizen, advocate, etc. This question is one that I specifically posed to the Office of the Federal Privacy Commissioner. The response was along the lines of "um, it's definately covered by the Act but you can use the information if the owner of the business card would reasonably expect that it might be used for that purpose when he/she gave it to you." I also had a privacy law consultant (not retained, so it wasn't professional advice) tell me that business identities (such as the one shown at the bottom of this email) aren't counted as "personal information" and therefore aren't "protected" by the Privacy Act. The OFPC said the opposite. rik. -- ~ Specialists in IT Infrastructure ~ * Managed Services * Consulting * Product Supply & Support * Rik Harris The Fulcrum Group of Companies Chief Technology Officer Level 8, 628 Bourke Street ph: +61-3-8601-6100 Melbourne VIC 3000 Australia fx: +61-3-8601-6199 http://www.fulcrum.com.au/ From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Fri Jan 11 05:58:04 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:58:04 +1100 Subject: [LINK] .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia Daily Update -- Thursday, January 10, 2002. - - - - - 5. .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services In December, Java was more popular than .Net for building Web services, according to an online poll, but weeks later the position had dramatically reversed; investigation revealed just what lengths Microsoft will go to to promote its products. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167369 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Fri Jan 11 06:15:29 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:15:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New OSes, new security problems? Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia Daily Update -- Thursday, January 10, 2002. - - - - - 8. New OSes, new security problems? Unless you've been keeping Osama company in his cave for the last two weeks, you've no doubt heard about the massive security hole that was discovered in Microsoft Windows XP. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167372 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Jan 11 06:38:16 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:38:16 +1100 Subject: [LINK] .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services References: Message-ID: <3C3E7A48.8BCAD424@praxis.com.au> Tony Barry wrote: > 5. .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services > In December, Java was more popular than .Net for building Web services, > according to an online poll, but weeks later the position had dramatically > reversed; investigation revealed just what lengths Microsoft will go to to > promote its products. > http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167369 Why am I not surprised? Someone from Windowsland can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't .NET doom to failure since it will run only on Windows (tm) systems? -rickw -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Jan 11 07:13:40 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:13:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New OSes, new security problems? References: Message-ID: <3C3E8294.1A58C9E1@praxis.com.au> Tony Barry wrote: > 8. New OSes, new security problems? > Unless you've been keeping Osama company in his cave for the last two weeks, > you've no doubt heard about the massive security hole that was discovered in > Microsoft Windows XP. > http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167372 The article mentions "if you've run the Windows Update service in the last week and a half or so, the immediate problem has been fixed." Having an external entity automatically update your operating system is a very scary prospect for me. It seems like a service that could easy muckup your existing installation, through human error on the server side. Or worse, contemplate the effects of a vicious/noxious update delivered courtesy of a viral exploit on the server. Millions of machines could be disabled or trojanned using this feature. Enough said. -rickw _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From Joshua.Rowe@auspost.com.au Fri Jan 11 07:40:53 2002 From: Joshua.Rowe@auspost.com.au (Rowe, Joshua) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:40:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Channel Nine Bushfire Appeal Message-ID: <51957A0A918CD511BF7800508B6BC70B02467E89@exsmel05.hq.auspost.com.au> Channel Nine Bushfire Appeal http://ninemsn.com.au/news/bushfire_appeal.asp "Launched during a special edition of A Current Affair on Friday, January 11 and running until 6.30pm on Monday, January 14, this national appeal will raise funds for victims of the devastating 2001 Christmas bushfires." Pledges can be made online through ninemsn billpay or POSTbillpay on the Internet: http://ninemsn.com.au/clientcomp/network/form14.asp Josh -- Australia Post is committed to providing our customers with excellent service. If we can assist you in any way please either telephone 13 13 18 or visit our website www.auspost.com.au. CAUTION This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you have received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify Australia Post immediately by return e-mail to the sender; and (c) please delete the original e-mail. From annm@exocat.com.au Fri Jan 11 08:56:03 2002 From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:56:03 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Online Community References: <000601c198d8$87ab6880$0f00a8c0@A22P> <001901c198df$7dfc4be0$d8218790@telstra.com> <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> <3C3CDE4E.12D757B1@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <043001c19a75$6ee902a0$d8218790@telstra.com> i have watched this thread with great interest because many of the issues raised are those faced by teleworkers every day. without the benefit of face to face communication, they have to ensure their messages make the impact they want to achieve AND have to accurately interpret messages sent to them. i agree with rick, the issues surrounding adam's posts have simply brought the issue into sharp focus. i don't agree with rick that we need to 'see' a person to make decisions on whether we accept/agree/reject his/her opinion. as 'virtual' communities become more common we'll all need to develop more finely honed skills to make decisions on the veracity/relevance of comments made without face to face contact. we think we've managed to do this with telephone conversations. we think we've managed to do this with face to face contact. many people are surprised when they find that their initial assumptions about a person are different when they know them better. soon we'll all be able to 'converse' over the net via videolink. i suggest people who are bigots will then form opinions based on looks. i thought the beauty of the net was (is) that no-one knows you're a dog ;-) annm ************************************ Ann Moffatt EXoCaT Pty Ltd 49 Raintree Avenue BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 mob +61 (0) 41 124 7164 *********************************** From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Jan 11 09:46:58 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:46:58 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Online Community References: <000601c198d8$87ab6880$0f00a8c0@A22P> <001901c198df$7dfc4be0$d8218790@telstra.com> <20020109232011.GE12294@taz.net.au> <3C3CDE4E.12D757B1@praxis.com.au> <043001c19a75$6ee902a0$d8218790@telstra.com> Message-ID: <3C3EA682.A656608F@praxis.com.au> Ann Moffatt wrote: > i don't agree with rick that we need to 'see' a person to make decisions on > whether we accept/agree/reject his/her opinion. > > as 'virtual' communities become more common we'll all need to develop more > finely honed skills to make decisions on the veracity/relevance of comments > made without face to face contact. we think we've managed to do this with > telephone conversations. we think we've managed to do this with face to face > contact. many people are surprised when they find that their initial > assumptions about a person are different when they know them better. > > soon we'll all be able to 'converse' over the net via videolink. i suggest > people who are bigots will then form opinions based on looks. By 'see' I meant a lot more than 'looks'. Ann does make an interesting point that our skills will likely improve over time in evaluating people and their intentions solely based on written communications. Ann, you may have missed my point, which is that what you get via email is not the whole person. Passing someone off as a harmless village idiot based on their postings is missing the deeper person/personality behind the message. I have also witnessed the opposite, i.e. a person who sounds great, sensitive, intelligent etc. via email, but in person will tear shreds off you at a moment's notice without any regards for you, whomever is watching or the feelings of anyone involved. The whole package includes body language, communication technique, facial expression, lotas of visual clues that are missing in emails. > i thought the beauty of the net was (is) that no-one knows you're a dog ;-) It will remain that way until we have the video net. Although, you can always turn off that cam and remain a dog ;) -rickw -- _____________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Pty Limited We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -- Richard Dawkins From patrick@quad.net.au Fri Jan 11 10:51:46 2002 From: patrick@quad.net.au (Patrick Corliss) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:51:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive References: <3C3E39F3.BC74C3F7@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <01fd01c19a85$976e4a40$b33efea9@hamza> Hi Bernard > But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line with > most current market rates . . . " Isn't that statement evidence of anti-competitive behaviour and contrary to the Trade Practices Act? Regards Patrick Corliss ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernard Robertson-Dunn To: Link Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive > More economic activity: > > SMS is text-spensive > Kate Mackenzie > January 11, 2002 > Australian IT > http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,3569128%5E15302%5E%5Enbv%5E,00 .html > > Text messaging in Australia is now among the most expensive in the world - > and it's not likely to get any better. > > This follows Optus's decision to match Telstra's recent Short Message > Service price rise. An Optus spokeswoman said it would lift its charges 3c > to 25c per message from February 1. Australia's SMS prices compare > unfavourably with many other countries. Singaporeans, for instance, pay > about 5c per message, Danes about 10c and Germans about 15c. > > But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line with > most current market rates. Like any business we must be focused on striking > a balance between reducing our costs while providing cost-effective and > competitive services". > > ... > > -- > It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever > for supposing it is true. > -- Bertrand russell, 1928 - On the Value of Scepticism > > Regards > brd > > Bernard Robertson-Dunn > Sydney Australia > brd@austarmetro.com.au > From grove@zeta.org.au Fri Jan 11 12:14:17 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:14:17 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Gopher Turns 10; Gopher 3.0 (FurryTerror) Released Message-ID: I wonder if this will be a renaissance or just another net.curio? rachel Subject: Gopher Turns 10; Gopher 3.0 (FurryTerror) Released Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip Followup-To: comp.infosystems.gopher Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:58:59 GMT Organization: Complete.Org From: John Goerzen Paul Lindner announced the availablity of Gopher 0.2 in these two newsgroups back in 1991 (http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1991Sep10.020238.4751%40cs.umn.edu) Here's the latest post for that thread :-) Gopher Turns 10 / Gopher 3.0 (Furry Terror) Released January 8, 2002 The Internet Gopher Server and Curses Client is 10 years old!* Since its [1]announcement in late 1991, Gopher quickly sprang up to be one of the most innovative technologies of its time. Gopher today still provides features not found on Web servers -- namely, its idea that the entire planet is just one big filesystem. Modern browsers such as Konqueror and Mozilla show it to us that way, even with drag-and-drop integration with the desktop. Today we release the Internet Gopher Server and Client version 3.0. After having been totally unmodified for five years, the Internet Gopher has kicked back to life. The University of Minnesota placed the code under the GNU General Public License and an interested group of hackers set to work on it. A year later, we have this release. About Gopher To learn about Gopher, please visit The Gopher Project [[2]gopher/[3]web], A Brief Introduction to Gopherspace [[4]gopher/[5]web], or The Gopher Manifesto [[6]gopher/[7]web]. Obtaining Gopher/Gopherd 3.0 Debian sid users may run "apt-get install gopher gopherd" beginning on approximately January 11. The source distribution may be downloaded from: * [8]gopher://gopher.quux.org/1/devel/gopher * [9]Quux.Org's Web-To-Gopher Interface to the Above * [10]http://www.quux.org/give-me-gopher/ for people that want a more conventional HTTP presentation. Release Notes * You are encouraged to use ./configure --disable-auth to build. * BSD users should use "gmake" to build. Changes since UMN Gopher release 2.3.1 In Brief: * Many security and buffer overrun fixes * New security features in gopherd * Improved handling of MIME types * Modified to work on modern operating systems. Verified to work in Linux for multiple platforms and NetBSD/i386. Should also work for HURD. * Many other modifications, see below. A more detailed listing is below -- but it is still abbreviated. The most current is available from CVS. gopher (3.0.0-1) unstable; urgency=low * Patched to work with Hurd. Closes: #115511. Uses suggestions from James Morrison but not his patch. * gopher.c, gopherd/error.c, gopher/download.c: Modified to use HAVE_STRERROR * configure.in: Modified with checks for sys/param.h, HURD header files, get_current_dir_name, etc. * configure.h.in, configure: rebuilt. * Moved the current UMN Copyright notice in "COPYING" into "copyright" * Updated copyright files, etc. with current info. * Updated the locales with semi-current copyright stuff. * Updated greeting in gopher and gopherd. * This is Gopher 3.0.0, the Furry Terror release. -- John Goerzen Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:31:00 -0500 -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) From brd@austarmetro.com.au Fri Jan 11 12:25:28 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:25:28 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive References: <3C3E39F3.BC74C3F7@austarmetro.com.au> <01fd01c19a85$976e4a40$b33efea9@hamza> Message-ID: <3C3ECBA8.C2B5E26C@austarmetro.com.au> Patrick Corliss wrote: > > Hi Bernard > > > But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line > > with most current market rates . . . " > > Isn't that statement evidence of anti-competitive behaviour and > contrary to the Trade Practices Act? IANAL -- Criminal Lawyer is a redundancy. -- unknown Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From renelk@libertus.net Fri Jan 11 15:04:38 2002 From: renelk@libertus.net (Irene Graham) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:04:38 +1000 Subject: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <20020111000705.GM9081@fulcrum.com.au> References: <3C3BCF77.F0A8D79A@praxis.com.au> <20020110001021.GE9081@fulcrum.com.au> <5ebq3u8obbm047ju6vjittn213givl40fu@4ax.com> <20020111000705.GM9081@fulcrum.com.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:07:05 +1100 Rik Harris wrote: [...] >> I'd be interested in hearing how you come to this conclusion about >> telephone numbers. Or, maybe I misunderstand - are you saying that a >> "telephone number by itself (with no name)" would not be "personal >> information" as defined in the Act? > >Yep, that's what I'm saying and the Act only seems to cover "personal >information". This is definately only my opinion, but looking at the >act, a telephone number, by itself with no name, could not be >considered "personal information" and therefore would not be covered by >the National Privacy Principles unless it was decided that reverse >directories were common enough that a name could "reasonably be >ascertained." Have you ever typed a phone number into Google, without anything else? In my experience, the outcome is sometimes quite similar to the outcome of typing in an email address. Hence, I'd recommend considerable caution in taking a position that all telephone numbers are not "personal information". Also, it seems to me the issue is, not whether a person's identity "can reasonably be ascertained" by lots of people, but whether it "can reasonably be ascertained" by anyone. The definition of "personal information" does not indicate to me that it refers to numbers of people who can ascertain identity but whether identity can reasonably be ascertained. Consider, for example, the number of employees of telecommunications and other types of companies (banks, credit agencies, direct marketing coys etc etc) who have ready access to information that enables them to match a phone number with a person. It may also be worth noting the view expressed in the Consultation Paper on the NPP Guidelines issued by the Privacy Commissioner last May: "Personal information can range from the very sensitive (for example, political beliefs, medical history, sexual preference or medical records) to the everyday (for example, hair colour, address, phone number). ...Whether a person's identity is reasonably ascertainable will depend on the context and on who holds the information." http://www.privacy.gov.au/publications/dnppg.html >The fuzziness of the Privacy Act is a double-edged sword - in some >ways it's not useful to stop the practices that some people don't >like, but in others it's quite awkward to understand how to comply. >Discussions with consultants and the OFPC result in similarly fuzzy >responses. No disagreement in that regard whatsoever. Imo, the OFPC's fuzziness on various aspects has not been at all helpful to either businesses who seek guidance on complying with the law, nor to individuals who wish to know what their rights are under the law. Nor was the gutting of the NPP Guidelines at all helpful (see EFA's open letter to the OFPC of 31/8/01 at http://www.efa.org.au/Publish/nppopenltr.html ) >For example, you give someone your business card when you meet with >them, you've just given them personally identifiable information. >What's the primary purpose of that exchange? As someone who provides >services, I'd like to think someone would pick up my card and phone me >any time they have an infrastructure need, regardless of why I gave >them my card in the first place. As a customer, do I want to be >receiving information from suppliers about their product range? >Sometimes yes, sometimes no. > >Is it "reasonable" for someone to use your business card to contact you? > to send you some information on their products? > to send you some information on other vendors products? > to send details to a related company? For what purpose? > to send details to an unrelated company? For what purpose? > >The answer seems to be "it depends." There are plenty of other examples. The answer may be "it depends" because there is much controversy over what is a "primary purpose" and whose opinion is relevant and to what extent in deciding what is a "primary purpose". I recall sitting at a meeting of the FPC's NPP Guidelines Reference Group and listening to a major business industry lobby group argue along the lines that when one applies for a loan for, say, a house, and provides personal information for that purpose, the primary purpose should be anything to do with both money and owning a house. If primary purpose were to be interpreted in that way, it would permit them to give not only contact details to e.g. an insurance company (and numerous others), but also salary and asset info etc. Many of the issues as to clarity of the law hang on what is a primary purpose. Imo, until the FPC ceases pussy footing around this issue, or the courts are required to determine its meaning, it will remain unclear to both businesses and individuals/consumers what the law means. >It's going to take a long time and a variety of test cases before >this fuzziness is clearer. Agreed. Irene From renelk@libertus.net Fri Jan 11 15:05:33 2002 From: renelk@libertus.net (Irene Graham) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:05:33 +1000 Subject: FW: [LINK] New Privacy Laws and SPAM In-Reply-To: <20020111001505.GN9081@fulcrum.com.au> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020109172013.02ceaa38@pop3.corvu.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.20020110091403.020d3840@pop.primenet.com> <20020111001505.GN9081@fulcrum.com.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:15:06 +1100 Rik Harris wrote: [...] >> That depends on the type of business though. Many businesses with <$3m >> turnover will remain exempt after Dec 2002. The only ones who will have to >> comply from 21 Dec 2002 are those for whom one of the following statements >> is true: >> >> - it is related to another business (for example its holding company or a >> subsidiary) that has an annual turnover of more than $3 million; >> - it discloses personal information for a benefit service or advantage; >> - it provides someone else with a benefit, service or advantage to collect >> personal information; >> - it is a contracted service provider for a Commonwealth contract. >> http://www.privacy.gov.au/publications/nppgl_01.html > >Or it provides health services and holds health records. > Section 6D 4. b. of the Amended Privacy Act 1988. Agreed that those types of small business are covered. However, they're already covered, i.e. from 21 Dec 2001, as I understand it. The ones I listed are those that are presently exempt, but will not be exempt from 21 Dec 2002. I can see that what I said didn't make this clear, sorry. I was trying to be brief, while talking about complex and confusing legislation, with a view to avoiding one of those "out of scope" messages that posts to link can result in from a certain person. However, why I generally try to avoid receiving such messages is a complete mystery to me, given the broad range of posts to Link that appear to me to be *far* more "out of scope" than anything I've ever posted. Irene From marty@supine.com Fri Jan 11 15:43:48 2002 From: marty@supine.com (Martin) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 01:43:48 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive In-Reply-To: <3C3ECBA8.C2B5E26C@austarmetro.com.au> References: <3C3E39F3.BC74C3F7@austarmetro.com.au> <01fd01c19a85$976e4a40$b33efea9@hamza> <3C3ECBA8.C2B5E26C@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <20020111144348.GA18470@kevin.supine.com> $author = "Bernard Robertson-Dunn" ; > > Patrick Corliss wrote: > > > > Hi Bernard > > > > > But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line > > > with most current market rates . . . " > > > > Isn't that statement evidence of anti-competitive behaviour and > > contrary to the Trade Practices Act? > > IANAL i'm not either, but i will bite. that statement proves nothing on it's own and certainly not anti-competitive behaviour. if every other player in the market just raised their rates and optus just followed suit, then eyebrows would be raised and fels would throw his weight around. however, sms rates with vodafone haven't changed since i first became aware of the rate i was paying, and i haven't heard anything about any of the other carriers raising rates. this would tend to indicate that you can take the optus statement at face value. price fixing and collusion are serious issues, but without more evidence i can't see them being present in this situation. marty -- "To err is human, to forgive is not my policy. --root" - sig file on slashdot From observatory-is@unesco.org Fri Jan 11 23:22:26 2002 From: observatory-is@unesco.org (by way of Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:22:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] UNESCO Observatory Newsletter - No 118 - January 11, 2002 Message-ID: ------------------------------------------------------------------- UNESCO OBSERVATORY ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY http://www.unesco.org/webworld/observatory -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsletter - No 118 - January 11, 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Briefs selection (below), is ordered into the major themes of the Observatory: - Action Plans and Policies - Privacy and Confidentiallity - Content Regulation - Access to Public Domain -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Action Plans, Policies: international, regional and national levels [INT, INF - 11.01.2002] UN Adopts Resolution On World Summit On Information Society (AllAfrica.com) The United Nations has taken a major step toward bridging the digital divide with the adoption, by the General Assembly, of a resolution which welcomes the organisation of the World Summit on the Information Society. The summit, which is expected to promote access by all countries to information, knowledge and communications technologies for development. http://allafrica.com/stories/200201100296.html [APA, EGO, INF - 10.01.2002] Thailand's Government Services Move Online (Newsbytes) Thailand's government agencies are lining up to offer the public electronic services this year, with plans to make them available nationwide. Varavuth Silpa-archa, secretary for Thailand's Minister for Science, Technology and Environment, stresses that technology must reach people in remote areas and the government must provide education to help them to utilize it. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173490.html [APA, INF - 10.01.2002] Report: China to settle on four telecom operators (IDG.net) China has announced plans to have four telecommunication service providers running the country's fixed-line, mobile, data, and other telecommunication services in two years' time, according to the Tuesday edition of the official newspaper China Daily. http://www.idg.net/ic_786396_1794_9-10000.html [EUR, ACC, VIR - 10.01.2002] Classrooms of the future (BBCnews) A vision of a school of the future making extensive use of computer technology and classroom assistants has been unveiled by the Education Secretary, Estelle Morris. Her speech at the BETT 2002 educational technology conference in London was accompanied by a promotional video showing a computer-generated model of the school of tomorrow. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_1749000/1749817.stm [EUR, ECO - 10.01.2002] UK to miss EU's E-commerce Directive deadline (Europemedia.net) The European Union will see one less member state meet its E-commerce Directive implementation deadline for January 17, 2002, as the UK government quietly announced in late 2001 that it would not be ready until summer this year. Implementing the directive requires member states to set up legislation regarding online consumer rights. http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=7589 [EUR, ECO - 09.01.2002] Chicago Seeks Proposals for Building Public/Private MAN (IDGnet) The project, called CivicNet, is aimed at bringing a broadband network with integrated data, voice and video capabilities to every nook and cranny of Chicago over the next 10 years. But most of the cost isn't expected to land on the Windy City's shoulders. City officials are looking for private-sector companies to build and manage the network. The city government, which has an annual telecommunications budget of more than $30 million, would be the anchor tenant. http://www.idg.net/ic_786076_1794_9-10000.html [EUR, EGO - 09.01.2002] Online voting on the cards (BBCnews) Britons will be able to vote via the internet under plans to shake-up the political system being considered by Leader of the Commons Robin Cook. In an interview with The Guardian newspaper Mr Cook said the plan was one of a package of measures intended to modernise the political system to boost the proportion of people - especially under-40s - who vote in elections. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1747000/1747135.stm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Privacy & Confidentiality: transborder privacy, global e-commerce, cryptography [ECO, INF - 11.01.2002] Western European server revenue sees 21% decline in Q3 2001 (Europemedia.net) Western European server factory revenue declined 21 per cent from $3.81bn (E4.26bn) in the third quarter of 2000 to $3bn (E3.36bn) in the same period last year, according to IDC research. IDC European Systems Group vice president Martin Hingley notes that while server sales have been problematic... http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=7612 [ECO, IPR - 11.01.2002] Napster reboots with trial service (The Guardian) Napster, the once renegade music file-sharing service, flickered back into life yesterday after spending more than six months offline. The service, which attracted the unwanted scrutiny of the big five recording companies after becoming hugely popular with internet users, is testing a members' service with 20,000 volunteers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,630878,00.html [CRY, CRM - 10.01.2002] New virus first to infect Macromedia Flash (Asia.Cnet) Antivirus companies warned PC users Tuesday that future Macromedia Flash movies could carry malicious viruses and worms. The caution came after an unknown virus writer sent just such an infectious program to U.K. antivirus company Sophos. Dubbed SWF/LFM-926, the new program does little but infect Flash files on a PC when the movie is played. http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/security/0,39001150,39009807,00.htm [ECO - 10.01.2002] New On-Line Service Puts Top Unit Trusts Into One Basket (AllAfrica.com) Fundsnet (www.fundsnet.co.za) will enable users access to an extensive range of unit trust products from 10 South African institutions. Based on international models, Fundsnet is expected to be South Africa's most advanced electronic investment platform. It plans to be fully automated enabling it to charge lower administration fees and thanks to transactions being electronic,... http://allafrica.com/stories/200201090194.html [CRY, CRM - 09.01.2002] Experts say government is not prepared for hacker attack (Europemedia.net) An expert group on hackers has advised the German federal government to set up a new office dealing with emergency plans and reconnaissance on hacker attacks. At the moment, communication networks in Germany would fall much too easily to serious hacking attempts, according to an internal study... http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=7528 [ECO, EGO - 09.01.2002] Hong Kong E-Gov Portal Racks Up 1 Million Transactions (Newsbytes) E-government has drawn significant interest in Hong Kong with the disclosure last week that the SAR's residents conducted more than 1 million transactions with government agencies last year. Services include voter registration, tax return submission, applications for drivers' licenses, payment of traffic penalties and a government bookstore. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173417.html [CRY, ACC - 07.01.2002] US Army Web Site Goes Dark In Asia-Pacific Region (Newsbytes) The main U.S. Army Web site is unreachable for many Web surfers in the Asia-Pacific region, according to user reports and network test results. Web surfers in Taiwan and New Zealand have reported they are unable to reach the site (http://www.army.mil ). Tests conducted today using network trace tools from Internet addresses in other Asian countries, including India, Singapore, Korea and Hong Kong produced similar results. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173391.html [CRY, PRI, CRM - 07.01.2002] FBI: Microsoft IIS most vulnerable (Asia.internet) It used to be pretty tough to find out your security vulnerabilities, but that's changed. The prestigious SANS Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, working with the FBI, has developed a top 20 list of common vulnerabilities that leave Internet sites open to attacks. The list includes descriptions of the vulnerabilities,... http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/security/0,39001149,39000240,00.htm [ECO - 07.01.2002] Charities hit by dot.com collapse (The Guardian) The collapse of the dot.com sector has severely hit charitable giving, it emerged yesterday, with the world's wealthiest man, Bill Gates, among those sharply cutting back. Charities may have lost out on billions as the fortunes of some of the richest men and women in the world have shrunk. Mr Gates, co-founder of Microsoft, last year gave $2bn (Ģ1.4bn) to his charitable foundation, down from $5bn in 2000, but he remained the most generous giver in the US. http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,627487,00.html [ECO - 07.01.2002] Chinese Race to Supplant India in Software (Yahoo) In the battle between India and China over the software business, India holds the edge. But if the recent invasion of Chinese trade and information technology delegations to Bangalore, India's software capital, is any indication, China is hoping to change that. A few weeks ago, a delegation of officials from the Chinese Ministry of Higher Education was here at Infosys Technologies, India's best-known http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nyt/20020106/tc/chinese_race_to_supplant_india_in_software_1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Content Regulation: intellectual property rights, copyright, freedom of expression [CON, FRE - 11.01.2002] Korean Gay Activists Challenge Web Site Ban (Newsbytes) South Korean homosexual rights campaigners have today reportedly taken their government to court over a ban on one of the country's first Web sites for gays and lesbians. According to the Lesbian and Gay Alliance Against Discrimination in Korea, access to gay and lesbian Web sites has been blocked ever since the government adopted an Internet content rating system last year and classified gay and lesbian Web sites as "harmful media." http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173532.html [CRM, FRE, IPR - 11.01.2002] Norway Cracks Down on DVD Hacker (Wirednews) Jon Johansen, a Norwegian teen hacker, has been indicted for allegedly bypassing DVD anti-copying technology. On Thursday, newspapers in Norway reported that prosecutors in Oslo have charged Johansen, 18, for violating the country's computer hacking laws in 1999. http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,49638,00.html [CRM, IPR - 11.01.2002] Firms Warned of Clampdown On Software Piracy (AllAfrica.com) South Africa's computer software pirates are costing the country billions of rands in lost revenue and thousands of jobs. A piracy study last year by Business Software Alliance (BSA) showed that 45% of both business and personal computer users in South Africa were using pirated software, compared to the worldwide average of 37%. http://allafrica.com/stories/200201100147.html [IPR - 10.01.2002] Lawmakers Deaf to Music Reform (Wirednews) Legislation to force music industry reforms ranging from limits on artists' contracts to bolstering consumer access to digital music is unlikely to pass Congress this year, a top Democrat said Tuesday. Michigan Rep. John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,49577,00.html [IPR - 09.01.2002] Could CD-copying actually be legal? (ZDnet) On Friday, Rep. Rick Boucher, D-Va., sent a letter to executives of the recording industry's trade association, asking whether anti-piracy technology on CDs might override consumers' abilities to copy albums they have purchased for personal use. A 1992 law allows music listeners to make some personal digital copies of their music. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5101267,00.html?chkpt=zdnn_mh_ [IPR, ECO - 09.01.2002] Domain gold rush tails off (The Guardian) A virtual gold rush that marked the end of the 1990s now looks like coming to an end. Amid the heights of internet euphoria, speculators bought up domain names with abandon in the belief that they could sell them on at huge profits in the future. But, for only the second time in the internet's relatively short history, the number of dotcom domains on the internet fell. http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,628161,00.html [CRM, IPR - 07.01.2002] BSA grants software pirates one-month amnesty (IDG.net) The Business Software Alliance (BSA) is offering corporate software pirates in seven U.S. areas a chance to start the new year on the right side of the law, offering a one-month grace period for companies to acquire necessary licenses without facing infringement penalties. The software and Internet industry trade group, which enforces license and copyright restrictions, announced the one-month reprieve earlier this week in hopes that license violators will take the opportunity to conduct a software audit and take the necessary steps to get legal. http://www.idg.net/ic_785241_1794_9-10000.html [IPR, ACC - 07.01.2002] Public money, private code (Wirednews) The drive to license academic research for profit is stifling the spread of software that could be of universal benefit. Would the creation of the Internet be allowed to happen today? The networked society we live in is in large part a gift from the University of California to the world. In the 1980s, computer scientists at Berkeley working under contract for the Defense Department created an improved version of the Unix operating system... http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/index.html?x -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Universal Access - Public Domain: access for all, on-line governance, virtual libraries, multilingualism [DVD - 11.01.2002] Remote Islands Tuning Into Digital Cellular Services (Newsbytes) The sprinkling of 607 islands between Hawaii and Indonesia makes up a landmass about the size of Washington, D.C. But with a footprint that covers some million square miles of the Pacific Ocean, even linking just the most-populous areas adds a sense of immediacy to the concept of cell-phone roaming. Many residents, Jones said, will soon leap from having no telephone services at all to advanced digital voice capabilities and Internet access. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173546.html [INF - 11.01.2002] Phones and handhelds get closer (BBCnews) Leading companies are showcasing gadgets that close the gap between the phone and the handheld computer. They are hoping to persuade the consumer to pay that little bit more for a mobile or a personal digital assistant that does it all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1752000/1752564.stm [EGO, ECO - 10.01.2002] Government Sites Draw Web Traffic (Newsbytes) More Americans did business with a government Web site last year than paid their credit card bills or traded stocks online, according to a study to be released today. About 55 percent of adults with access to the Internet visited a government Web site last year, said the National Technology Readiness Survey,... http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173500.html [DVD - 09.01.2002] Continental Drift - Africa's Race to Get Connected (AllAfrica.com) Africa is a developing continent in all respects, and the lack of first world information and communication technology (ICT) is creating a rift between it and the developed world says Marconi SA. Some have gone as far to say that there is now a fourth world economy, that of Cyberspace. The continent struggles with a largely rural population... http://allafrica.com/stories/200201070583.html [DVD - 09.01.2002] Computers for the People in Brazil (Yahoo) In the early 90's, when Brazil began to relax its import restrictions, Mr. Picciotto started importing computer parts and reselling them to shops that assembled the machines in back rooms. Eventually, his customers began to ask Mr. Picciotto whether he could take over the assembly process. "It hadn't even crossed my mind to assemble computers," Mr. Picciotto recalled, "because who was I to compete against I.B.M. or Compaq?" Analysts say that Metron's appeal is simple: price. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nyt/20020107/tc/computers_for_the_people_in_brazil_1.html [ACC, CON, ECO - 07.01.2002] Rise of Net 'Borders' Prompts Fears for Web's Future (Wirednews) It is the modern-day equivalent of a border sentry. When visitors try to enter UKBetting.com, a computer program checks their identification to determine where they're dialing in from. Most people are waved on through. Those from the United States, China, Italy and other countries where gambling laws are muddy, however, are flashed a sign in red letters that says "ACCESS DENIED" and are locked out of the Web site. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/173389.html [INF - 07.01.2002] Grid Computing Gaining Voice (Asia.internet) "Grid computing is a method of harnessing the power of many computers in a network to solve problems requiring a large number of processing cycles and involving huge amounts of data," said Alan Meckler, chairman and chief executive officer of InternetNews.com parent INT Media Group, which Thursday launched GridComputingPlanet.com, a Web site dedicated to coverage of the grid computing industry. "Rather than using a network of computers simply to communicate and transfer data, grid computing taps the unused processor cycles of numerous -- sometimes thousands of -- computers. http://asia.internet.com/asia-news/article/0,3916,161_948201,00.html [INF - 07.01.2002] 'Internetworks' the most significant development in 2001 for streaming audio (Europemedia.net) The most significant development in 2001 for streaming audio was the formation of audio 'internetworks'. They are similar to the early days of radio with 'chains' and with the first TV 'networks'. These 'internetworks' fall into two categories. There are large corporate-backed internetworks and independent ad hoc networks. http://www.europemedia.net/shownews.asp?ArticleID=7520 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- UNESCO Observatory on the Information Society mirrors: Japan (by the United Nations University): http://mirror-japan.unesco.org/webworld/observatory/index.html United States (by the University of Nebraska): http://mirror-us.unesco.org/webworld/observatory/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, just visit: http://www.unesco.org/cgi-bin/webworld/portal_observatory/subscribe.cgi?action=unsubscribe&email=me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Fri Jan 11 23:29:32 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:29:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] MS settlement proposal dinged Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020112092342.020a7030@pop.primenet.com> Remember the MS antitrust case in the US? This on ZDNET US: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5101599,00.html?chkpt=zdnnp1tp01 Judge throws out MS school deal By Joe Wilcox Special to ZDNet News January 11, 2002 12:40 PM PT A federal judge in Baltimore on Friday rejected a controversial settlement that would have ended more than 100 private class-action lawsuits against Microsoft. In his 21-page ruling, U.S. District Judge J. Fredrick Motz agreed with opponents that the proposed deal in the antitrust cases would be itself be anti-competitive. He also said that the private cases had not been developed far enough to determine the extent of damages that could have been obtained through litigation. [snip] Microsoft expressed dissatisfaction with the ruling, and optimism that it would eventually carry the day in the court proceedings. "While we are confident we will ultimately prevail in these lawsuits, we are disappointed that competitors and trial lawyers have blocked a real opportunity with very real, significant social benefits," company spokesman Jim Desler said. [snip] A string of setbacks Rich Gray, a Silicon Valley-based attorney closely following the matter, said that Motz's conclusion--that the cases developed sufficiently for the judge to be comfortable with a billion-dollar settlement--bodes ill for the software maker. "(That) is potentially ominous news for Microsoft," he said. "It does not guarantee that the ultimate number for a new settlement will be significantly higher, but it certainly suggests that as a possibility." [snip] Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Fri Jan 11 23:19:31 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:19:31 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive In-Reply-To: <01fd01c19a85$976e4a40$b33efea9@hamza> References: <3C3E39F3.BC74C3F7@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020112091632.020a5b00@pop.primenet.com> At 08:51 PM 11/01/02 +1100, you wrote: > > But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line with > > most current market rates . . . " > >Isn't that statement evidence of anti-competitive behaviour and contrary to >the Trade Practices Act? Not any more so than the petrol stations using binocs to watch " the competitions' " price boards on the highway. Since this thread is continuing, would the dollar have anything to do with it? I'm not an economist, lawyer, doctor or indian chief, but would the fact that Optus has shifted to foreign ownership have any impact? Probably not, just a thought. I was considering what happens with petrol prices and the 'parity' argument and then when the int'l price drops, the cost of petrol doesn't drop commensurately because the Aussie has tanked so bad to begin with. Fuzzy thinking at this point, but I'll put it out there for comment [or not]. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Sat Jan 12 01:56:13 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:56:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Opencourseware: simple idea, profound implications Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, January 11, 2002 - - - - - OPENCOURSEWARE: SIMPLE IDEA, PROFOUND IMPLICATIONS MIT's OpenCourseWare (OCW) project is an effort to freely disseminate content for over 2,000 undergraduate and graduate courses over the Web. Anyone in the world can make use of the course materials, but the exact nature of OCW has stirred up confusion. OCW does not offer online degrees, or even enrollable courses; it also lacks the student-faculty interaction critical for learning. Rather, it provides insight, either from faculty or the university itself, into the kind of material needed to achieve an MIT education. Furthermore, MIT's often harried faculty only have 10 years to post all the material online; the learning objects have yet to be rendered reusable; and the site must be designed to offer both individuality and scalability for content development. OCW is meant to counterbalance the increasing privatization of education. Participation "reflects the idea that, as scholars and teachers, we wish to share freely the knowledge we generate through our research and teaching," according to S. Miyagawa, professor of linguistics at MIT. (Syllabus, January 2002) -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Sat Jan 12 02:07:53 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:07:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Google Gets Bigger, Fresher, Offers Better News Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:THE SEARCH ENGINE REPORT January 7, 2001 - Number 62 - Part 1 of 2 - - - - - Google Gets Bigger, Fresher, Offers Better News A longer version of this article for Search Engine Watch members can be found at http://searchenginewatch.com/subscribers/articles/0201-google.html Not a member? Learn more about the benefits you receive at http://searchenginewatch.com/about/subscribe.html?source=01ser In December, Google became the first crawler-based search engine to break the 1.5 billion web page mark. In addition, the service rolled out changes designed to improve the freshness of its results and the ability for users to find news. The Google index now contains more than 1.5 billion web pages that have been actually visited by Google, as well as an additional half-billion pages that it knows about through links. There are also another 330 million image files and 700 million Usenet posts, which stretch back to 1981. The enlargement of Google's Usenet information makes it a fantastic resource for researching the early days of the Internet, and Search Engine Watch's associate editor Chris Sherman takes a closer look at the enhanced Google Groups, in his story below. Sherman's story also provides more details about Google's improved news search results. Since the middle of 2000, Google has provided links to news stories at the top of its results page, in response to certain queries. The news content was pulled from major wire services. The latest changes now pull that content from hundreds of web sites that Google says it has identified as having news content. Google also says that news links are three times more likely to appear in results, than in the past. When it appears, news content shows up at the top of the standard Google results page, with the word "News" to the left of any links. Try a search for "euro" or "argentina," and you'll see examples of news links. Unfortunately, the changes still leave Google weak in the news search arena. At competitors AltaVista and FAST, there are dedicated news search offerings. There are also a variety of good, new news search sites such as Daypop and RocketNews available, in addition to established ones such as Moreover. In any of these places, users who specifically want to find news content can be guaranteed to find it. In contrast, there's no way to specifically perform a news-only search at Google, in the way you can an image search or a newsgroup search. Instead, you have to hope that the Google search algorithm manages to float news search results up in response to your query. To stay competitive, given the huge interest in news search, Google needs to finally make a dedicated news search option available. Google did roll out a "Headline News" search service also in December, but that's not the same thing. This service aggregates top headlines from more than 100 leading English language newspapers into a single page, as well as grouping them into six categories: World, US, Business, Entertainment, Technology and Sports. Google is promising future changes, such as more news sources and interface enhancements. Hopefully, one of those enhancements will be the ability to do keyword searching against the Google news search index used to feed its main results page. Google is also trying to improve the freshness of its web page index. Previously, Google updated its web page index on a roughly monthly basis. This meant that pages could be around a month old, if you used Google just before the latest refresh happened. The monthly refresh is still continuing, but a new daily refresh now also runs. A few million pages identified as being time-sensitive are being spidered regularly, so that the latest information from them is available. Google is even highlighting if a page has been refreshed recently by the use of a new "Fresh!" tag that appears next to a page's URL. They show the exact time the page was respidered. For instance, search for "white house," and you'll see that the US White House site is noted as "Fresh!," having last been visited on January 6. The Fresh notations are welcomed, but even better would be if Google showed dates for all the pages it lists, in the way AltaVista used to offer. Then, it would be extremely easy to know exactly when a page was last visited by the Google spider. By the way, that long-standing page date option was available at AltaVista until recently. It now appears to have been pulled, probably because it made it so easy to understand how fresh -- or stale -- AltaVista's index was. Google http://www.google.com Google Launches New Salvo in Search Engine Size Wars SearchDay, Dec. 11, 2001 http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/01/sd1211-google.html More details on Google getting bigger, enhancing its Google Groups area and making freshness changes. Google Headline News http://www.google.com/news/newsheadlines.html News Search Engines http://searchenginewatch.com/links/news.html Freshly-updated, a guide to major news search resources. Google History http://www.google.com/corporate/history.html Newly updated page that's an entertaining read of Google's Cinderella story. Google Goes for Stop Words SearchDay, Dec. 3, 2001 http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/01/sd1203-google.html Google now automatically searches for previously ignored "stop" words if you make your query a quoted phrase. -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From dlochrin@dot.net.au Sat Jan 12 02:14:42 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:14:42 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New OSes, new security problems? In-Reply-To: <3C3E8294.1A58C9E1@praxis.com.au> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020112121442.007a6c90@mail.dot.net.au> At 05:13 PM 11-01-2002 +1100, Rick Welykochy wrote: >The article [ http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167372 ] mentions "if you've >run the Windows Update service in the last week and a half or so, >the immediate problem has been fixed." > >Having an external entity automatically update your operating system is >a very scary prospect for me. It seems like a service that could easy muckup >your existing installation, through human error on the server side. > >Or worse, contemplate the effects of a vicious/noxious update delivered >courtesy of a viral exploit on the server. Millions of machines could be disabled >or trojanned using this feature. Q: What's more scary than having your Windows XP system deliberately made accessible to Microsoft over the Internet? A: Having your Windows XP system deliberately made accessible to *everybody* over the Internet. According to the Microsoft privacy statement for the Windows-XP Media Player (WMP) at http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windowsmedia/software/v8/privacy.asp WMP creates a database on your system called the "Media Library". This database is updated with information about web sites you visit, and even about CDs you play locally on the CD drive which have nothing to do with the Internet or Microsoft, and this information is uploaded to WindowsMedia.com The function can be turned off by knowledgable users, however Media Player cannot then access the Internet. I assume any new data buffered in the Media Library is uploaded as soon as you turn it back on again. The scary bit is that this database can be readable and writeable to the whole Internet. WMP allows the Media Library to be given "read/write", "read only", or "no" access if in fact you realise that's desirable and know how to do so, but I doubt that the default is "no access". (Not to mention the gross intrusion of privacy associated with monitoring visited sites and uploading that data to Microsoft in the first place.) David ================================================= David Lochrin Networked Systems Consultancy Pty. Limited ABN 20 074 899 853 +61 2 9363 1094 (telephone) 9363 9622 (FAX) http://www.dot.net.au/~dlochrin PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Sat Jan 12 02:52:49 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:52:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] 2002: the year of the copyright? Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:NewsScan Daily, 10 January 2002 ("Above The Fold") - - - - - 2002: THE YEAR OF THE COPYRIGHT? "The recording industry has vowed to make 2002 the year of the copyright," says columnist Patti Waldmeir. To further that goal, record labels are experimenting with CDs that include technology that prevents them from being copied, even by owners for their own use, and several online music subscription services set to launch this year will be engineered to prevent unauthorized reproduction. If the technology is successful, it could be the year of ascendancy for copyright holders, who will find themselves wielding more power than was ever intended under U.S. copyright law or the constitution, says Stanford University law professor Lawrence Lessig. Lessig argues that by extending the term of copyrights 11 times in the last 40 years, Congress has exceeded its constitutional authority, granting copyright holders terms that extend long beyond a human lifetime. Lessig argues that these over-lengthy terms violate the constitution's command to "promote the Progress of Science and the useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." Under today's technology, the copyright on a locked CD may expire, but the CD would remain locked. In Lessig's recent book, "The Future of Ideas: The Fate of the Commons in a Connected World," he recommends a radical revision of copyright law: copyright protection should be cut to five years, renewable 15 times. If a copyright is not renewed, the work would enter the public domain. (Financial Times 10 Jan 2002) http://news.ft.com/news/industries/media -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Sat Jan 12 02:53:21 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:53:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] michigan Governor Establishes Cybercourt Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:NewsScan Daily, 10 January 2002 ("Above The Fold") - - - - - MICHIGAN GOVERNOR ESTABLISHES CYBERCOURT Michigan Governor John Engler has signed into law a bill to create a virtual state court -- the first to operate in the U.S., according to Matt Resch, an Engler spokesman. A cybercourt exists at the College of William and Mary in Virginia, but isn't operational, says Resch. The court won't have a jury and will handle only business disputes involving at least $25,000. District or circuit court judges will be assigned for three-year terms and will be specially trained to use the system. "In a world where we can go from idea to IPO at warp speed, we need a connected court that can keep up," says Engler. (AP 9 Jan 2002) http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020109/D7GU9I300.html -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From mgm-ns@tardis.net Sat Jan 12 05:57:14 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:57:14 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New OSes, new security problems? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20020112121442.007a6c90@mail.dot.net.au> References: <3C3E8294.1A58C9E1@praxis.com.au> <3.0.5.32.20020112121442.007a6c90@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:14:42 +1100, you wrote: > According to the Microsoft privacy statement for the Windows-XP Media Player (WMP) at http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windowsmedia/software/v8/privacy.asp WMP creates a database on your system called the "Media Library". > > This database is updated with information about web sites you visit, and even about CDs you play locally on the CD drive which have nothing to do with the Internet or Microsoft, and this information is uploaded to WindowsMedia.com Please provide your source of this information. > The scary bit is that this database can be readable and writeable to the whole Internet. And so can any other file on your system if you are connect to the Internet without a firewall and a badly configured system. If this is the case, then someone being able to access your Media Library would be the least of your problems. -- Best wishes, Malcolm From jdub@perkypants.org Sat Jan 12 12:03:51 2002 From: jdub@perkypants.org (Jeff Waugh) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 22:03:51 +1100 Subject: [LINK] .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services In-Reply-To: <3C3E7A48.8BCAD424@praxis.com.au> References: <3C3E7A48.8BCAD424@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <20020112110351.GZ27324@perkypants.org> > Why am I not surprised? Because you're always so... sarcastic, Rick. > Someone from Windowsland can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't .NET doom > to failure since it will run only on Windows (tm) systems? Non-Windows(tm) *and* Free Software: http://www.go-mono.net/ http://www.gnu.org/projects/dotgnu/ The technologies behind .NET will be stunningly successful, primarily because of ECMA standardisation and Free implementations. Instead of .NET on MS-supported products and hardware only, you will find it everywhere. The CLR is particularly interesting on PDAs. - Jeff -- "It's only ironic because it's true." - Reflexive irony, overheard From ivan@itrundle.com Sat Jan 12 22:17:32 2002 From: ivan@itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 08:17:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services In-Reply-To: <20020112110351.GZ27324@perkypants.org> Message-ID: On Saturday, January 12, 2002, at 10:03 PM, Jeff Waugh wrote: > >> Someone from Windowsland can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't .NET >> doom >> to failure since it will run only on Windows (tm) systems? > > Non-Windows(tm) *and* Free Software: > > http://www.go-mono.net/ > > http://www.gnu.org/projects/dotgnu/ > > The technologies behind .NET will be stunningly successful, primarily > because of ECMA standardisation and Free implementations. Instead of > .NET on > MS-supported products and hardware only, you will find it everywhere. > The > CLR is particularly interesting on PDAs. > You'll also find some users using it reluctantly because they have to if they wish to register newly-purchased Microsoft products. I purchased a copy of MS Office v.X (for Mac OS X) recently, and the only way that I am able to register the software is through .NET - no other choices at all, not even paper-based. I declined the offer. Though I daresay that there will be plenty of Mac users who will ignore the MS registration process in future... at least until we are compelled by being drawn into an upgrade program, or something else that demands .NET affiliation. Ivan Trundle (who generally has nice things to say about MS Office X, even if AppleWorks does it better and cheaper - and still waiting for an opensource 'Office' for Macs). From geert@xs4all.nl Sat Jan 12 22:10:38 2002 From: geert@xs4all.nl (geert lovink) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 08:10:38 +1100 Subject: [LINK] IT and the auditing industry Message-ID: <00b201c19bb2$5c759be0$bbde3dca@geert> Dear linkers, I am not sure how many of you follow the ENRON affair in the US. As in the case of numerous dot.bombs, HiH and One.Tel, research points at the crucial role of the auditing industry in covering up losses, bad business models and financial schemes. Instead of investigating each individual case I would argue for a general inquiry in the auditing and accounting industry and a public disassociation of the IT-industry with businesses such as Andersen. Best, Geert --- When In Doubt, Shred It By Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman Arthur Andersen, one of the nation's Big Five accounting firms, admitted this week that it destroyed a "significant" number of documents related to its audit of Enron, the Houston, Texas-based energy trading giant that collapsed spectacularly into a pile of worthless securities late last year, wiping out $30 billion worth of shareholder value -- but not before top executives bailed out early. The Enron practice of shifting liabilities off the books to more than 3,500 subsidiaries raised so many red flags that you'd think you were in a military parade somewhere in China. As the criminal investigation geared up this week, Attorney General John Ashcroft and the entire staff of the U.S. Attorney's office in Houston recused itself from the investigation. The whole bunch has been conflicted out. The investigation is going to be headed by Michael Chertoff, head of the Justice Department's criminal division. Whether justice can be had in a case where both Enron and the accounting industry has marinated Washington in campaign cash is unclear. What is clear is that Enron and the accounting industry were so drunk with their corporate power that they mistook a modest proposed rule that might have prevented the Enron collapse for threat to their profits and nuked it. In the summer of 2000, Securities and Exchange Commission Chair Arthur Levitt sought to pass a rule that would have said to accounting firms -- if you are going to audit a client, you can't take consulting fees from that client. The accounting industry went bananas. Why? Because they see audits as a way to get a foot in the door of big companies. First audit the company, then ream the company for exorbitant management fees. But Levitt insisted that auditors be "independent" of the clients they audit. How can an auditor be independent if at the same time it's auditing the company, it's raking in millions in consulting fees? With Levitt's proposed rule, the accounting industry saw a booming profit center threatened, and it began to marshal its friends -- both Democratic and Republican alike -- in Washington to beat back the Levitt rule. And beat it back they did. Congressional leaders told Levitt, in no uncertain terms, that if he proceeded, they would slash the SEC's budget. Levitt backed down. Last year, while Andersen was paid $27 million for its audit work at Enron, it received $28 million in management consulting fees from the same Enron. Let's say that Andersen's audit partner in Houston saw the red flags, and began to raise questions. Are Andersen executives going to risk losing the lucrative consulting contract by offending the company with a harsh audit? Probably not. As for the destruction of documents, let's put it this way -- much of the history of corporate crime and violence in this country has never seen the light of day because of corporate executives who follow closely the advise of corporate counsel -- when in doubt, shred it. Corporate lawyers have become so cavalier about the subject that they publicly discuss destruction of documents. Andersen was apparently following to the letter advice often dished out by white collar defense lawyers, including that of Harvey Pitt, the accounting industry star defense lawyer until he became chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission. (Pitt will probably have to recuse himself from the Andersen investigation because he did work for the firm when in private practice.) White collar defense lawyers like Pitt often advise corporate clients to implement flexible "document retention" programs so that incriminating documents are destroyed before they see the light of day. In 1994, Pitt co-authored a law review article ("When Bad Things Happen to Good Companies: A Crisis Management Primer"). "At the crux of many corporate crises, there are typically a handful of key documents," Pitt wrote. "Corporate counsel must take every available opportunity to imbue company executives with the understanding that their documents will take on separate lives when they enter the treadmill of litigation. . Ask executives and employees to imagine all their documents in the hands of a zealous regulator or on the front page of the New York Times. . Each company should have a system of determining the retention and destruction of documents," Pitt wrote. "Obviously, once a subpoena has been issued, or is about to be issued, any existing document destruction policies should be brought to an immediate halt." Former Securities and Exchange Commission enforcement chief John Fedders, writing in a 1980 law review article titled "Document Retention and Destruction: Practical, Legal and Ethical Considerations," took this advice one step further. "On occasion, counsel will be shown a document which could expose the corporation to liability if it became available to adverse parties," Fedders wrote. "If the document is not yet scheduled for destruction under the terms of the program, management may advocate a waiver of the program to allow the document to be promptly destroyed." Things are destined to get worse before they get better. The SEC has the accounting industry's pit bull as its chair. In addition, Bush has nominated two new SEC commissioners, both of whom are former partners of big five accounting firms -- Paul Atkins, a partner with PricewaterhouseCoopers, and Cynthia Glassman of Ernst & Young. That gives the accounting industry absolute control over what was once the top cop on the corporate crime beat. Get ready for more Enrons. Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Corporate Crime Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Multinational Monitor. They are co-authors of Corporate Predators: The Hunt for MegaProfits and the Attack on Democracy (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1999; http://www.corporatepredators.org) This article is posted at: http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-focus/2002/000101.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Sat Jan 12 23:39:06 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:39:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:17 AM +1100 13/1/02, Ivan Trundle wrote: >(who generally has nice things to say about MS Office X, even if >AppleWorks does it better and cheaper - and still waiting for an >opensource 'Office' for Macs). See http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ Tony -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From dasssa@ozemail.com.au Sun Jan 13 01:18:41 2002 From: dasssa@ozemail.com.au (Dassa) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:18:41 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D1570B@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> Message-ID: <02bb01c19bc7$db194c70$0200a8c0@dassa> |> -----Original Message----- |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Fitzsimmons, Caitlin |> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:34 AM |> To: link@www.anu.edu.au |> Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java |> |> |> I don't think it's an education/PR problem at all. The |> problem is real. |> |> Richard's point is that, with our current system of secret |> ballot, the |> ballot paper is anonymous. The voter knows the vote is |> untraceable, so long |> as no one is looking over his/her shoulder. We assume the ballot paper is anonymous and the vote untraceable. I can think of a number of ways the ballot paper and vote could be linked to the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. |> With internet voting, you would require an ID number and |> password. This is |> needed for a myriad of reasons, including the need to ensure |> only eligible |> persons vote, and that they do so once only. Is this any different to needing identification and being on the voting roll? |> It is technically possible to create a system where the |> actual content of |> the vote is not connected with the ID number, but it is |> equally possible to |> create a system where it IS linked - negating the principle |> of the secret |> ballot. The point is that it is not transparent. The voter |> would have to |> trust the authorities' word on this, which is a dangerous |> principle in a |> democracy. (The possible exception is if the source code is |> open and the |> voter can read the code - not likely!) There is an element of trust in the paper system. Auditing can be built into any electronic system and there can be monitoring of the whole system. Such concerns as raised above are not technical issues, they are trust and public awareness ones, which is why education and PR would play a large part. |> A possible solution is to adopt a hybrid model, where the |> voter goes in |> person to the polling booth and is marked off the list. |> (This should be |> computerised, to eliminate fraud and multiple votes). The |> voter would then |> proceed to the voting counter, where they register their vote |> electronically. This way, the identification and voting processes are |> separated as they are now and the principle of secret ballot |> is protected. |> |> The downside would be that this system wouldn't make it any |> easier to vote - |> but to be honest, I don't think that this is the reason for low voter |> participation in countries without compulsory voting. How |> hard is it to walk |> to your nearest primary school on a Saturday morning? |> |> The positive benefits of electronic voting in this manner |> would be faster |> and more accurate counting. |> |> However, there would still be serious questions (not just PR |> and education |> issues!) to resolve about data security and the absence of |> scrutineers |> watching the physical counting. Scrutineers and auditing of any electronic process could be set up and integrated. I would contend such auditing would be vastly superior to the manual subjective processes currently employed. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. From patrick@quad.net.au Sun Jan 13 01:49:35 2002 From: patrick@quad.net.au (Patrick Corliss) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:49:35 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Re: .SHEESH References: Message-ID: <005501c19bcc$3011ef80$b33efea9@hamza> Hi Adam I see that as tantamount to blackmail. You should stoop so low. If you wish to sue me, do so. You are a little shit. I am ashamed to be a fellow Australian. In disgust. Patrick Corliss On Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:43 AM, Adam Todd replied: > As of 1 January 2002 due to funding expiration, we no longer provide any > services without a fee. On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:33:51 -0800, Ellen Rony wrote: Adam-- The TLDA (Top Level Domain Association) is working to eliminate colliders. Collaboration is essential to make the alternative root clusters succeed. I am writing yet again because your root zone for .SHEESH remains out of synch with my instructions. See http://root-dns.org/scripts/VueDig.php?tld=sheesh&B1=Submit You continue to point .SHEESH as follows: Australian Root Server Confederation : 203.21.205.2 sheesh. 1d23h46m40s IN NS ns2.ah.net. sheesh. 1d23h46m40s IN NS ns4.ah.net Please change .SHEESH in your root zone to point to the following servers: ns1.merchantware.com 209.170.142.34 - PRIMARY ns2.merchantware.com 209.170.142.35 ns1.vrx.net 199.166.24.1 This is the set of machines that I wish to be authoritative for .SHEESH. I have been requesting this simple programming change since August of 2000 -- before your problems with Integral began and before your interests moved to other areas. If you lack a) resources, b) time, c) interest, and d) control to point to new servers for .SHEESH, please explain to the TLDA that AURSC is no longer able to fulfill administrative requests in a timely manner so that other root server operators can route around this damage. It is simply unreasonable to hold .SHEESH hostage any longer. Regards, Ellen Rony ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ellen Rony )/_ http://www.domainhandbook.com Co-author, Domain <" \ http://www.domainsleuth.biz Domain Name Handbook /) ) ellen@rony.com ---/'-""--- The more people I meet, the more I like my cockatiel. From wessorh@ar.com Sun Jan 13 02:02:20 2002 From: wessorh@ar.com (Rick H Wesson) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:02:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LINK] Re: [ga] Re: .SHEESH In-Reply-To: <005501c19bcc$3011ef80$b33efea9@hamza> Message-ID: all: Since the GA has nothing to do with alternative roots, please take this discussion to a more apporpiate frum thanks, -rick On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Patrick Corliss wrote: > Hi Adam > > I see that as tantamount to blackmail. You should stoop so low. > If you wish to sue me, do so. You are a little shit. > > I am ashamed to be a fellow Australian. > > In disgust. > > Patrick Corliss > > > On Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:43 AM, Adam Todd replied: > > > As of 1 January 2002 due to funding expiration, we no longer provide any > > services without a fee. > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:33:51 -0800, Ellen Rony wrote: > > Adam-- > > The TLDA (Top Level Domain Association) is working to eliminate colliders. > Collaboration is essential to make the alternative root clusters succeed. > > I am writing yet again because your root zone for .SHEESH remains out of synch > with my instructions. See > http://root-dns.org/scripts/VueDig.php?tld=sheesh&B1=Submit > > You continue to point .SHEESH as follows: > Australian Root Server Confederation : 203.21.205.2 > sheesh. 1d23h46m40s IN NS ns2.ah.net. > sheesh. 1d23h46m40s IN NS ns4.ah.net > > Please change .SHEESH in your root zone to point to > the following servers: > > ns1.merchantware.com 209.170.142.34 - PRIMARY > ns2.merchantware.com 209.170.142.35 > ns1.vrx.net 199.166.24.1 > > This is the set of machines that I wish to be authoritative for .SHEESH. > I have been requesting this simple programming change since August of 2000 -- > before your problems with Integral began and before your interests moved to > other areas. > > If you lack a) resources, b) time, c) interest, and d) control to point to new > servers for .SHEESH, please explain to the TLDA that AURSC is no longer able > to fulfill administrative requests in a timely manner so that other root > server operators can route around this damage. It is simply unreasonable to > hold .SHEESH hostage any longer. > > Regards, > > Ellen Rony > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Ellen Rony )/_ http://www.domainhandbook.com > Co-author, Domain <" \ http://www.domainsleuth.biz > Domain Name Handbook /) ) ellen@rony.com > ---/'-""--- > The more people I meet, the more I like my cockatiel. > > -- > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list. > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message). > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html > From patrick@quad.net.au Sun Jan 13 02:58:23 2002 From: patrick@quad.net.au (Patrick Corliss) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:58:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Re: .SHEESH References: Message-ID: <003001c19bd5$e50f2980$b33efea9@hamza> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:02:20 -0800 (PST), Rick H Wesson wrote: > Since the GA has nothing to do with alternative roots, please take this > discussion to a more apporpiate frum Hi Rick & Linkers I made that posting in a moment of weakness. I have since been informed privately that extorting money from people is normal business practice. I did not understand this clearly. You are also quite right that alternate roots is an issue which is off topic for the [link] list. Please accept my apologies for my mistake. For the sake of the list, I would appreciate it if people did not respond to my original posting. Sorry, it won't happen again. Best regards Patrick Corliss From fpilcher@gky.com.au Sun Jan 13 04:35:41 2002 From: fpilcher@gky.com.au (Fred Pilcher) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:35:41 +1100 Subject: [LINK] .Net vote rigging illustrates importance of Web services In-Reply-To: References: <20020112110351.GZ27324@perkypants.org> Message-ID: <4.3.1.1.20020113143409.0154dc50@gky.com.au> At 08:17 AM 13/01/2002 +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: Ivan Trundle >(who generally has nice things to say about MS Office X, even if >AppleWorks does it better and cheaper - and still waiting for an >opensource 'Office' for Macs). Does the Linux release of Star Office run under OS X? Fred From BudgetLife@eudoramail.com Sun Jan 13 17:29:28 2002 From: BudgetLife@eudoramail.com (BudgetLife@eudoramail.com) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 22:29:28 -1800 Subject: [LINK] Are You Paying too Much for Life Insurance? QTQKTY Message-ID: <00006b224def$00004391$000039fb@mx1.eudoramail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/03295cf9/attachment.htm From brd@austarmetro.com.au Mon Jan 14 00:30:09 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:30:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Toward Digital Democracy: A =?iso-8859-1?Q?Strategist=92s?= Plan for Fixing Flawed Elections Message-ID: <3C421881.B2CD7AE7@austarmetro.com.au> Toward Digital Democracy: A Strategist’s Plan for Fixing Flawed Elections By Mark Gerencser, Ed Rodriguez, and Chris Siddall Strategy+Business http://www.strategy-business.com/press/article/?art=25143&pg=0 Election reform in the U.S. is the ultimate change-management project. One principle must guide it: Treat voters like customers. The United States has 12 months to create a voting system that works the way most people thought it was working. A year ago, the general public learned what election officials in the United States have long known: The current setup is a mess. Old machinery, inaccurate registration rolls, ill-prepared poll workers, and convoluted procedures make it impossible for us to conduct an election with a completely accurate count. Moreover, the authority over the election system in the U.S. is so decentralized and disparate that no single solution can bring elections closer to what the voting public now demands. ... -- Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. -- unknown Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Mon Jan 14 02:01:46 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:01:46 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C684A5@EXCHANGE_AU> Dassa, There certainly is "a measure of trust" involved in the paper ballot. However, the key difference is that the user is trusting something they can see and understand. I agree that "auditing can be built into" the electronic system. But that auditing is only accessible to someone with knowledge and expertise. In fact, this raises yet another shortcoming of an electronic vote: it inhibits the ordinary voter's participation - not in the election, but in the electoral mechanism. Right now, someone with no technical expertise can help an election happen. Make it electronic, and that participation is restricted to technical experts. And that is anti-democratic. The "technical" election goes against the grain in another way. By putting the electoral mechanism in the hands of technical experts, it also tends towards "privatising" the electoral mechanism - in other words, that the mechanism becomes the property of the consultant of the day. I know it's unfashionable to advocate something purely in terms of the theory of democracy; but I strongly feel that the much-advocated "e-democracy" is not a democracy at all. Richard Chirgwin > -----Original Message----- > From: Dassa [mailto:dasssa@ozemail.com.au] > Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2002 10:19 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java > > > |> -----Original Message----- > |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au > |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of > Fitzsimmons, Caitlin > |> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:34 AM > |> To: link@www.anu.edu.au > |> Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java > |> > |> > |> I don't think it's an education/PR problem at all. The > |> problem is real. > |> > |> Richard's point is that, with our current system of secret > |> ballot, the > |> ballot paper is anonymous. The voter knows the vote is > |> untraceable, so long > |> as no one is looking over his/her shoulder. > > We assume the ballot paper is anonymous and the vote > untraceable. I can > think of a number of ways the ballot paper and vote could be linked to > the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. > > |> With internet voting, you would require an ID number and > |> password. This is > |> needed for a myriad of reasons, including the need to ensure > |> only eligible > |> persons vote, and that they do so once only. > > Is this any different to needing identification and being on > the voting > roll? > > |> It is technically possible to create a system where the > |> actual content of > |> the vote is not connected with the ID number, but it is > |> equally possible to > |> create a system where it IS linked - negating the principle > |> of the secret > |> ballot. The point is that it is not transparent. The voter > |> would have to > |> trust the authorities' word on this, which is a dangerous > |> principle in a > |> democracy. (The possible exception is if the source code is > |> open and the > |> voter can read the code - not likely!) > > There is an element of trust in the paper system. Auditing > can be built > into any electronic system and there can be monitoring of the whole > system. Such concerns as raised above are not technical issues, they > are trust and public awareness ones, which is why education > and PR would > play a large part. > > |> A possible solution is to adopt a hybrid model, where the > |> voter goes in > |> person to the polling booth and is marked off the list. > |> (This should be > |> computerised, to eliminate fraud and multiple votes). The > |> voter would then > |> proceed to the voting counter, where they register their vote > |> electronically. This way, the identification and voting > processes are > |> separated as they are now and the principle of secret ballot > |> is protected. > |> > |> The downside would be that this system wouldn't make it any > |> easier to vote - > |> but to be honest, I don't think that this is the reason > for low voter > |> participation in countries without compulsory voting. How > |> hard is it to walk > |> to your nearest primary school on a Saturday morning? > |> > |> The positive benefits of electronic voting in this manner > |> would be faster > |> and more accurate counting. > |> > |> However, there would still be serious questions (not just PR > |> and education > |> issues!) to resolve about data security and the absence of > |> scrutineers > |> watching the physical counting. > > Scrutineers and auditing of any electronic process could be set up and > integrated. I would contend such auditing would be vastly superior to > the manual subjective processes currently employed. > > Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. > From karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au Mon Jan 14 01:34:24 2002 From: karin.geiselhart@rmit.edu.au (Karin Geiselhart) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:34:24 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Toward Digital Democracy In-Reply-To: <3C421881.B2CD7AE7@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.1.20020114112900.00b4a140@ems.rmit.edu.au> >Toward Digital Democracy: A Strategist's Plan for Fixing Flawed Elections >By Mark Gerencser, Ed Rodriguez, and Chris Siddall >Strategy+Business >http://www.strategy-business.com/press/article/?art=25143&pg=0 may be promising on an instrumental level, but the deeper rot is in election funding and corporate welfare. speaking of which, amazon doesn't seem to carry George Monbiot's Captive State, seems peculiar. k Dr. Karin Geiselhart School of Business Information Technology RMIT University Melbourne ph 03 9925 1352 fax 03 9925 5482 http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/kgeiselhart From dlochrin@dot.net.au Mon Jan 14 01:51:59 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:51:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New OSes, new security problems? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20020112121442.007a6c90@mail.dot.net.au> <3C3E8294.1A58C9E1@praxis.com.au> <3.0.5.32.20020112121442.007a6c90@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020114115159.007ab440@mail.dot.net.au> At 03:57 PM 12-01-2002 +1100, Malcolm Miles wrote: >On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:14:42 +1100, you wrote: > >> According to the Microsoft privacy statement for the Windows-XP Media Player (WMP) at http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windowsmedia/software/v8/privacy.asp WMP creates a database on your system called the "Media Library". >> >> This database is updated with information about web sites you visit, and even about CDs you play locally on the CD drive which have nothing to do with the Internet or Microsoft, and this information is uploaded to WindowsMedia.com > >Please provide your source of this information. It's published at the URL I gave, which is the Microsoft privacy statement for Windows Media Player for Windows-XP. I have quoted fairly extensive extracts which I think are significant below. As I have remarked before, Microsoft deserve some credit for publishing all this in the public domain. Despite all the careful wording about Microsoft being "committed to protect your rights as a consumer" however, I feel very uneasy about the deep level of interlocking commercial interests which are being built into WMP. And just in passing, why my privacy rights "as a consumer"? Are they different to my privacy rights as an individual, or as an Australian citizen? Given Microsoft's record in the security area, I also feel very uneasy about the level of back-end Internet integration. If I were interested in using the media capabilities of Windows-XP, I would use a stand-alone computer and I would deinstall WMP on my office system. I'd be interested to hear any Linker's comments on the extracts below. David ---Quote--- [from the preamble] "Microsoft is committed to protecting your right to privacy as a consumer. Windows Media Player at no time requests from you any "Personally Identifiable Information" (information that personally identifies you, such as your name, address, and phone number). However, there are occasions when unique machine-identifying information is transmitted across the Internet. The purpose of this document is to fully expose the identifiable information, explain how it is used, and provide a clear mechanism for disabling it. "[...] "WHAT INFORMATION DOES WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER SEND ACROSS THE INTERNET? "To provide you with all of the services of Windows Media Player for Windows XP, Microsoft has tightly integrated Internet capabilities. It is through this integration that the Windows Media Player transmits information that pertains to you and your connection. The following sections describe the information that is transmitted and how it is used. "[...] "AUDIO CD AND MUSIC FILE INFORMATION "When playing or copying an audio CD, Windows Media Player attempts to locate information associated with that CD, such as the artist name, title, and track names. This information is added to the overall list of information that is kept in the Media Library. To obtain this information, Windows Media Player sends a unique CD identification number to WindowsMedia.com. No personal information is obtained or stored during this transaction. "If you do not want Windows Media Player to search for this information, you can turn it off with the following steps: "1. On the File menu, click Work Offline. "Note If you choose to work offline, you will not be able to access any information on the Internet. The Radio Tuner feature will not work because it relies on a connection to the Internet to obtain streaming media. "LICENSE ID "To secure music or video from piracy, companies that sell audio and video files that can be downloaded from the Internet will often attach a license that restricts playback of those files. If you purchase files that require a license to play them, that license will be provided at the time of purchase. The license is a file that contains a non-traceable ID. This file is downloaded to your computer and must remain on your computer for as long as you want to be able to play the audio or video file. You can avoid this transaction (or make sure that you don't accidentally pick up a license) by not purchasing licensed files and by clearing the Acquire licenses automatically check box. "To clear the Acquire licenses automatically check box: [...] "[...] "MEDIA LIBRARY "The Media Library lists your collection of audio and video, as well as links to audio and video. This information can be accessed by other software on your computer and on the Internet. You may want to leave Media Library accessible if you want other software or Internet sites to automatically add information to your Media Library. If you do not want other software or Internet sites to be able to see your Media Library lists or to write information to your Media Library list, you can turn off the access. There are three possible settings for access: no access, read only, and full access. "To disallow access to your Media Library, use the following procedure: [...] "[...] "COOKIES "Windows Media Player uses the Internet as a networking and information source. When accessing the Internet, cookies may be downloaded to your computer. A cookie is a small piece of information that enables applications to understand information about your computer. A cookie is not a piece of code. "If you do not want cookies to be stored on your computer, change your security settings in Microsoft Internet Explorer: [...] "[..] "SECURIY UPGRADE (INDIVIDUALIZATION) "Some companies provide licensed audio and video files that may require you to upgrade your security components in the Windows Rights system. If you choose to upgrade your security, Windows Media Player will connect to an Internet site operated by Microsoft and will send a unique identifier along with a Windows Media Player security file. This unique identifier does not contain any personal information about you and is not used to personally identify you or track your activities. "Microsoft will then replace the security file with a customized version of the file that contains your unique identifier. This information is used to help Microsoft prevent security breaches that could affect you. "To avoid the security upgrade: [...] "RESTORE SERVICE "Microsoft has worked with partners (such as record labels, hand-held computer manufacturers, video labels, and many others) to develop a service that enables you to move and restore digital media licenses (for legitimate purposes only) between your computers, not your computer and your friend's computer. This service allows for a limited number of license transactions. When you restore your licenses, you are sending information to Microsoft that uniquely identifies your computer for internal tracking purposes. "Microsoft stores your unique identifier information in a database and keeps track of the number of times you attempt to restore your licenses. Microsoft does not share this information with any other parties, either internal or external to Microsoft. "To avoid the restore service: [...] ---End Quote--- ================================================= David Lochrin Networked Systems Consultancy Pty. Limited ABN 20 074 899 853 +61 2 9363 1094 (telephone) 9363 9622 (FAX) http://www.dot.net.au/~dlochrin PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Jan 14 06:44:46 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:44:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Telstra in a fix over ADSL bug Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia News & Tech - Monday, January 14, 2002. - - - - - 1. Telstra in a fix over ADSL bug An ADSL bug that has baffled Telstra for seven months is continuing to outwit the telco giant, with the fix date for some disabled peer-to-peer files sharing services now pushed back for the third time this year. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167599 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Jan 14 06:43:53 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:43:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Vigilance against cybercrime Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia News & Tech - Monday January 14, 2002. - - - - - 5. Vigilance against cybercrime The misdirection of security budgets due to a lack of understanding of the problems facing organisations must be addressed by ICT practitioners in Australia, and elsewhere. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167578 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Jan 14 06:45:18 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:45:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Privacy interest spikes for Australian businesses Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia News & Tech - Monday, January 14, 2002. - - - - - 3. Privacy interest spikes for Australian businesses The office of the Australian Federal Privacy Commissioner has had a more than 50 percent increase in enquires since the new Privacy Amendment (Private Sector) Act 2000 came into force on December 21 last year. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167601 -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Jan 14 06:42:57 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:42:57 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Editorial: Microsoft security measures - toolkit or band-aid? Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:ZDNet Australia News & Tech - Monday January 14, 2002. - - - - - Editorial: Microsoft security measures - toolkit or band-aid? If you have ever owned, operated or administered a Windows NT/2000 server, and/or IIS Web servers and not experienced a security breach, you are in the minority. The vulnerabilities found within Microsoft's server software have been exploited and complained about for years now. Chat rooms, user groups and the like have been filled with techies asking each other for advice on how to patch the latest vulnerability and how to avoid the worm that just sneaked into their system via IIS, as well as those just having a whinge about what they call the "holiest" of software. (I don't think they are referring to its religious value, either.) After enormous pressure from the IT industry as a whole, Microsoft finally introduced the Microsoft Security Toolkit, a must-have for administrators looking for the fix-it solutions for their Microsoft software. Does it make the grade, is it just a band-aid to cover up the problem, or is it little more than an attempt by Microsoft to shift the onus of impenetrable security onto the user? This week, ZDNet Australia brings you an in-depth evaluation of the current security toolkit, broken down into three parts: Windows NT: http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167570 Windows 2000: http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167571 IIS: http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?167572 Nicole Bellamy Producer ZDNet Australia edit@zdnet.com.au -- phone +61 2 6241 7659 mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au http://tony-barry.emu.id.au/people/tony/index.html From stephen@melbpc.org.au Mon Jan 14 17:03:35 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:03:35 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fyi: Global Summit of Online Knowledge Networks Message-ID: Hi all .. This would appear a worthwhile education.au initiative .. -- From: Kate Dibben To: "Global Summit 2002" Subject: Global Summit of Online Knowledge Networks Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:01:29 +1030 The decisions we make today will shape online education and training tomorrow. But will they be the right decisions? How can we plan for a future that we know will not be the same as the present? The Global Summit of Online Knowledge Networks to be held in Adelaide, Australia on 4 and 5 March 2002, will bring together representatives of key educational networks from around the world. Each will bring a wealth of knowledge and experience. And each will be puzzling over problems for which there are no easy answers... Hosted and organised by education.au limited, this event will showcase best practice in networked online learning, education and training initiatives and strengthen national and international alliances. Places at the two-day conference will be limited to invited participants.You should be part of the Summit if * you are wrestling with issues that may be better addressed collectively * you are keen to share your insights and ideas and think strategically about the future * you want to connect with key thinkers from around the world and extend your professional networks * your organisation would benefit from the combined thinking of leaders in the field of online knowledge networks supporting education and training * your organisation is keen to develop strategic alliances, identify synergies and enhance global learning The Global Summit is an associated event of the World Congress on Information Technology (WCIT2002) to be held from 27 February to 1 March 2002 in Adelaide, and delegates to both events are entitled to a A$200 reduction in the WCIT2002 registration fee. To register and for the latest information about the program please go to Because of WCIT2002 and the Adelaide Fringe and Arts Festivals, that are occurring around the same time as the Global Summit, we can only guarantee accommodation if it is booked before 31 January. We hope you will take this opportunity to join us in Adelaide. Kind regards Mr Gerry White Chief Executive Officer education.au limited www.educationau.edu.au Working Together Building Australia's Knowledge Networks -- Cheers all .. Stephen Loosley stephen@myinternet.com.au From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Mon Jan 14 23:34:16 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:34:16 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D1571E@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> The Singapore and Australian dollars are pretty much on par. -----Original Message----- From: Jan Whitaker [mailto:jwhit@PrimeNet.Com] Sent: Saturday, 12 January 2002 9:20 To: Patrick Corliss Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: [LINK] SMS is text-spensive At 08:51 PM 11/01/02 +1100, you wrote: > > But the Optus spokeswoman said its price rise "brings Optus in line with > > most current market rates . . . " > >Isn't that statement evidence of anti-competitive behaviour and contrary to >the Trade Practices Act? Not any more so than the petrol stations using binocs to watch " the competitions' " price boards on the highway. Since this thread is continuing, would the dollar have anything to do with it? I'm not an economist, lawyer, doctor or indian chief, but would the fact that Optus has shifted to foreign ownership have any impact? Probably not, just a thought. I was considering what happens with petrol prices and the 'parity' argument and then when the int'l price drops, the cost of petrol doesn't drop commensurately because the Aussie has tanked so bad to begin with. Fuzzy thinking at this point, but I'll put it out there for comment [or not]. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Mon Jan 14 23:47:33 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:47:33 +1100 Subject: FW: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15720@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> >>We assume the ballot paper is anonymous and the vote untraceable. I can >>think of a number of ways the ballot paper and vote could be linked to >>the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. How? Your name is not on the ballot paper and it's put in a box with a whole heap of other unmarked ballot papers. I can only see one possibility of linking the ballot paper and vote to the individual - a spy (either a human spy or spy camera). This would be rather inexact both in terms of identifying the individual and seeing the marks on the ballot paper. Feel free to let me know if I've overlooked something. >>Is this any different to needing identification and being on the voting >>roll? Completely different. My whole point is that, in the physical world, the voting is separated from the identification. Whereas if you dial in to the internet and type in your ID number, that information could easily be recorded with your vote. -----Original Message----- From: Dassa [mailto:dasssa@ozemail.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2002 11:19 To: link@www.anu.edu.au Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java |> -----Original Message----- |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Fitzsimmons, Caitlin |> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:34 AM |> To: link@www.anu.edu.au |> Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java |> |> |> I don't think it's an education/PR problem at all. The |> problem is real. |> |> Richard's point is that, with our current system of secret |> ballot, the |> ballot paper is anonymous. The voter knows the vote is |> untraceable, so long |> as no one is looking over his/her shoulder. We assume the ballot paper is anonymous and the vote untraceable. I can think of a number of ways the ballot paper and vote could be linked to the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. |> With internet voting, you would require an ID number and |> password. This is |> needed for a myriad of reasons, including the need to ensure |> only eligible |> persons vote, and that they do so once only. Is this any different to needing identification and being on the voting roll? |> It is technically possible to create a system where the |> actual content of |> the vote is not connected with the ID number, but it is |> equally possible to |> create a system where it IS linked - negating the principle |> of the secret |> ballot. The point is that it is not transparent. The voter |> would have to |> trust the authorities' word on this, which is a dangerous |> principle in a |> democracy. (The possible exception is if the source code is |> open and the |> voter can read the code - not likely!) There is an element of trust in the paper system. Auditing can be built into any electronic system and there can be monitoring of the whole system. Such concerns as raised above are not technical issues, they are trust and public awareness ones, which is why education and PR would play a large part. |> A possible solution is to adopt a hybrid model, where the |> voter goes in |> person to the polling booth and is marked off the list. |> (This should be |> computerised, to eliminate fraud and multiple votes). The |> voter would then |> proceed to the voting counter, where they register their vote |> electronically. This way, the identification and voting processes are |> separated as they are now and the principle of secret ballot |> is protected. |> |> The downside would be that this system wouldn't make it any |> easier to vote - |> but to be honest, I don't think that this is the reason for low voter |> participation in countries without compulsory voting. How |> hard is it to walk |> to your nearest primary school on a Saturday morning? |> |> The positive benefits of electronic voting in this manner |> would be faster |> and more accurate counting. |> |> However, there would still be serious questions (not just PR |> and education |> issues!) to resolve about data security and the absence of |> scrutineers |> watching the physical counting. Scrutineers and auditing of any electronic process could be set up and integrated. I would contend such auditing would be vastly superior to the manual subjective processes currently employed. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Mon Jan 14 23:52:15 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:52:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15722@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> Yes the average person knows a piece of paper is a piece of paper, but they don't know what is _really_ in the source code, only what they are told is in it. -----Original Message----- From: Chirgwin, Richard [mailto:Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au] Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 12:02 To: link@www.anu.edu.au Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Dassa, There certainly is "a measure of trust" involved in the paper ballot. However, the key difference is that the user is trusting something they can see and understand. I agree that "auditing can be built into" the electronic system. But that auditing is only accessible to someone with knowledge and expertise. In fact, this raises yet another shortcoming of an electronic vote: it inhibits the ordinary voter's participation - not in the election, but in the electoral mechanism. Right now, someone with no technical expertise can help an election happen. Make it electronic, and that participation is restricted to technical experts. And that is anti-democratic. The "technical" election goes against the grain in another way. By putting the electoral mechanism in the hands of technical experts, it also tends towards "privatising" the electoral mechanism - in other words, that the mechanism becomes the property of the consultant of the day. I know it's unfashionable to advocate something purely in terms of the theory of democracy; but I strongly feel that the much-advocated "e-democracy" is not a democracy at all. Richard Chirgwin > -----Original Message----- > From: Dassa [mailto:dasssa@ozemail.com.au] > Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2002 10:19 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java > > > |> -----Original Message----- > |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au > |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of > Fitzsimmons, Caitlin > |> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:34 AM > |> To: link@www.anu.edu.au > |> Subject: RE: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java > |> > |> > |> I don't think it's an education/PR problem at all. The > |> problem is real. > |> > |> Richard's point is that, with our current system of secret > |> ballot, the > |> ballot paper is anonymous. The voter knows the vote is > |> untraceable, so long > |> as no one is looking over his/her shoulder. > > We assume the ballot paper is anonymous and the vote > untraceable. I can > think of a number of ways the ballot paper and vote could be linked to > the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. > > |> With internet voting, you would require an ID number and > |> password. This is > |> needed for a myriad of reasons, including the need to ensure > |> only eligible > |> persons vote, and that they do so once only. > > Is this any different to needing identification and being on > the voting > roll? > > |> It is technically possible to create a system where the > |> actual content of > |> the vote is not connected with the ID number, but it is > |> equally possible to > |> create a system where it IS linked - negating the principle > |> of the secret > |> ballot. The point is that it is not transparent. The voter > |> would have to > |> trust the authorities' word on this, which is a dangerous > |> principle in a > |> democracy. (The possible exception is if the source code is > |> open and the > |> voter can read the code - not likely!) > > There is an element of trust in the paper system. Auditing > can be built > into any electronic system and there can be monitoring of the whole > system. Such concerns as raised above are not technical issues, they > are trust and public awareness ones, which is why education > and PR would > play a large part. > > |> A possible solution is to adopt a hybrid model, where the > |> voter goes in > |> person to the polling booth and is marked off the list. > |> (This should be > |> computerised, to eliminate fraud and multiple votes). The > |> voter would then > |> proceed to the voting counter, where they register their vote > |> electronically. This way, the identification and voting > processes are > |> separated as they are now and the principle of secret ballot > |> is protected. > |> > |> The downside would be that this system wouldn't make it any > |> easier to vote - > |> but to be honest, I don't think that this is the reason > for low voter > |> participation in countries without compulsory voting. How > |> hard is it to walk > |> to your nearest primary school on a Saturday morning? > |> > |> The positive benefits of electronic voting in this manner > |> would be faster > |> and more accurate counting. > |> > |> However, there would still be serious questions (not just PR > |> and education > |> issues!) to resolve about data security and the absence of > |> scrutineers > |> watching the physical counting. > > Scrutineers and auditing of any electronic process could be set up and > integrated. I would contend such auditing would be vastly superior to > the manual subjective processes currently employed. > > Darryl (Dassa) Lynch. > This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From Joshua.Rowe@auspost.com.au Tue Jan 15 00:27:22 2002 From: Joshua.Rowe@auspost.com.au (Rowe, Joshua) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:27:22 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Spam tide high and rising Message-ID: <51957A0A918CD511BF7800508B6BC70B02467EAA@exsmel05.hq.auspost.com.au> Spam tide high and rising http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,3589867%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E, 00.html CAUBE.AU brochure explains the impact of the changes to the Privacy Act 1988 on marketing by online businesses. http://www.caube.org.au/privacy-act-brochure.pdf Coalition Against Unsolicited Bulk Email, Australia http://www.caube.org.au/ SpamCon Foundation http://www.spamcon.org/ Josh -- Australia Post is committed to providing our customers with excellent service. If we can assist you in any way please either telephone 13 13 18 or visit our website www.auspost.com.au. CAUTION This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. The confidentiality and/or privilege in this e-mail is not waived, lost or destroyed if it has been transmitted to you in error. If you have received this e-mail in error you must (a) not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it; (b) please notify Australia Post immediately by return e-mail to the sender; and (c) please delete the original e-mail. From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Jan 15 01:50:34 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:50:34 +1000 Subject: [LINK] New attacks on consumer rights Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498901C684B3@EXCHANGE_AU> >From EETimes.com: http://www.eet.com/story/OEG20020111S0060 >Content protection plan targets wireless home networks > > LAS VEGAS - Philips is leading the charge to start yet another industry initiative to tackle >digital rights management, this time focusing on the wirelessly networked home, >EE Times has learned. > >At stake here, said Leon Husson, executive vice president of consumer businesses at Philips >Semiconductors, is the "free-floating" copyrighted content that will soon be "redistributed" or >"rebroadcast" to different TV sets throughout a home by consumers using wireless networking >technologies like IEEE802.11. Once again, the people that originate technologies bet that people will, like simple natives of another age, willingly trade their rights for technical trinkets. Depressingly, this seems a safe assumption: hence the enthusiasm for a new toy like DVD outweighs any debate over giving up your rights. This is an extremely worrying development. But it's following an established pattern. First, turn a product into a service - that way, the broad rights conferred on the owner of an object become the narrow rights of the user of a service. Then, develop ways to enforce ever more restrictions on that service. And support those restrictions by accusing people of theft. I've never seen myself as an advocate of the "copyright is dead" school of thought. However, the behaviour of copyright owners - and fellow travellers - is becoming so appalling as to polarise the argument. Richard Chirgwin From lannet@lannet.com.au Tue Jan 15 01:08:49 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:08:49 +1100 (EST) Subject: FW: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15720@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> Message-ID: It most certainly is based on a measure of trust. There are a number of situations where the ballot paper could be related back to the individual, and the fact that it is not is based on the trust that is placed in the polling place officials. I have done 20 years as a polling place manager at all levels of government and the system could be compromised by dishonesty. Consider 2 situations where ballot papers are scrutenised. 1. At the polling place immediately after the polls close 2. During pre-poll or declaration poll ballot sorting, usually a day or so after the election day. The former is conducted at the polling place and it would be possible for the clerk issuing the ballot paper to the voter to uniquely identify the paper, possibly hiding it as the initials that the clerk is required to mark on the paper as it is issued. When the polls close the ballot boxes are opened and the primary and TPP votes are counted at the site. That marked ballot paper could be identified by that same clerk, remembering that the same clerk who issued the paper is often conducting the count of those papers. In the latter case the ballot papers are placed into identifying envelopes. These envelopes are only opened at the electoral office, they are never opened at the polling place. Once the identifying information on the envelope has confirmed the right of the voter to vote, the envelope is opened and the ballot papers and the envelope are separated. It is at this point that a dishonest clerk could make the link between the identity on the envelope and the contained ballot papers. I have never conducted a count in this situation but I would imagine that this point is normally very tightly monitored until the envelope and the ballot papers are well separated. It is very much down to a measure of trust. On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Fitzsimmons, Caitlin wrote: > >>the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. > > How? Your name is not on the ballot paper and it's put in a box with a whole > heap of other unmarked ballot papers. > > I can only see one possibility of linking the ballot paper and vote to the > individual - a spy (either a human spy or spy camera). This would be rather > inexact both in terms of identifying the individual and seeing the marks on > the ballot paper. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au Tue Jan 15 01:16:07 2002 From: fitzsimmonsc@theaustralian.com.au (Fitzsimmons, Caitlin) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:16:07 +1100 Subject: FW: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java Message-ID: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15728@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> You raise an interesting point - I had not thought of that possibility before. However, human scrutineers could check for false initials or other such markings, and this job could be done by anyone. If the system were electronic, only highly trained computer technicians would be able to recognise evidence of tampering. -----Original Message----- From: Howard Lowndes [mailto:lannet@lannet.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2002 11:09 To: Fitzsimmons, Caitlin Cc: 'link@www.anu.edu.au' Subject: Re: FW: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java It most certainly is based on a measure of trust. There are a number of situations where the ballot paper could be related back to the individual, and the fact that it is not is based on the trust that is placed in the polling place officials. I have done 20 years as a polling place manager at all levels of government and the system could be compromised by dishonesty. Consider 2 situations where ballot papers are scrutenised. 1. At the polling place immediately after the polls close 2. During pre-poll or declaration poll ballot sorting, usually a day or so after the election day. The former is conducted at the polling place and it would be possible for the clerk issuing the ballot paper to the voter to uniquely identify the paper, possibly hiding it as the initials that the clerk is required to mark on the paper as it is issued. When the polls close the ballot boxes are opened and the primary and TPP votes are counted at the site. That marked ballot paper could be identified by that same clerk, remembering that the same clerk who issued the paper is often conducting the count of those papers. In the latter case the ballot papers are placed into identifying envelopes. These envelopes are only opened at the electoral office, they are never opened at the polling place. Once the identifying information on the envelope has confirmed the right of the voter to vote, the envelope is opened and the ballot papers and the envelope are separated. It is at this point that a dishonest clerk could make the link between the identity on the envelope and the contained ballot papers. I have never conducted a count in this situation but I would imagine that this point is normally very tightly monitored until the envelope and the ballot papers are well separated. It is very much down to a measure of trust. On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Fitzsimmons, Caitlin wrote: > >>the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. > > How? Your name is not on the ballot paper and it's put in a box with a whole > heap of other unmarked ballot papers. > > I can only see one possibility of linking the ballot paper and vote to the > individual - a spy (either a human spy or spy camera). This would be rather > inexact both in terms of identifying the individual and seeing the marks on > the ballot paper. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the named addressee. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to the addressee), you may not copy or deliver this message or its attachments to anyone. Rather, you should permanently delete this message and its attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of News Limited or its subsidiaries must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by any of them. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. From dhiggins@access.fairfax.com.au Tue Jan 15 01:30:20 2002 From: dhiggins@access.fairfax.com.au (david higgins) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:30:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Guess I've done it now References: <51957A0A918CD511BF7800508B6BC70B02467EAA@exsmel05.hq.auspost.com.au> Message-ID: <00bf01c19d5b$d04a4e80$580a1aac@icon.fairfax.com.au> I've seen corporate warnings about bad language in e-mail before, but this is the best so far. Yesterday I sent an e-mail to a bunch of friends, one of whom is a cop. It bounced back from the cop's e-mail address with this message (I've deleted my friend's e-mail name): -------------------------------------------- Your message to XXXXXXXX@police.nsw.gov.au on Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:34:11 +1100 may have contained unacceptable language. Upon completion of the communication, this message will be subject to examination for possible contravention of the NSW Police Service policy governing the acceptable use of Electronic Mail. Please disregard this message if the contents of your mail item relate to genuine Police business. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- David Higgins Journalist The Sydney Morning Herald smh.com.au Ph: +61 2 9282 2336 (dir) MS Messenger: Cowspanker From m.lean@qut.edu.au Tue Jan 15 00:13:11 2002 From: m.lean@qut.edu.au (Michael Lean) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:13:11 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Defence against spam? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020115091041.02ef0b60@pop.qut.edu.au> Linkers, This is from "The Langa List". I haven't had time to try it, but it may be of interest to some, and I'd be interested to know what you think of its effectiveness. cheers, Mike >Need A "Spam Weasel?" > >The volume of spam in my inbox has grown to ridiculous proportions. I >already have a ton of filters set up in Eudora to toss out a lot of >spam, but the number of spam-mail variants changes faster than I can >change the filters --- so much so I've been considering abandoning my >primary email address and starting fresh with a new one. > >But then I got this email: > > Hello Fred, Thank you for a QUALITY newsletter! I found a SPAM > nuker that is miles ahead of all others I have tried. It is > fully configurable, one can write their own scripts, > and......... it is FREE !!!!! It has eliminated every single > spam email coming my way. I receive over 450 emails a day and > needless to say, this is a real time saver for me. Check it > out: http://www.mailgate.com/products/spamweas/sw_feat.asp > Thanks again for Langalist! --- Susan Brennan From NSMITH@nla.gov.au Tue Jan 15 01:31:26 2002 From: NSMITH@nla.gov.au (Nick Smith) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:31:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] New attacks on consumer rights Message-ID: <35A0BC67FA1AD311B18E0090277A418703BC4618@gandalf.nla.gov.au> > Richard Chirgwin: > > I've never seen myself as an advocate of the "copyright is dead" school of > thought. However, the behaviour of copyright owners - and fellow > travellers > - is becoming so appalling as to polarise the argument. > > >> I've always thought that there were opposite "copyright is dead" schools of thought. In the red corner, John Perry Barlow etc where the traditional copyright system is unsuited to the free-flowing world of cyberspace and will be ignored. In the blue corner, RIAA, MPAA etc, where the copyright *law* (along with its attendant legislative balances such as fair dealing/use) dies to be replaced by digital rights management technology which makes certain types of use a physical impossibility. Once you have DRM built into every hardware and software device and you have outlawed devices that do not contain DRM (as is seemingly proposed in the SSSCA which is still lurking out there), then you no longer have copyright infringement. Any 'copyright' negotiations between legitimate operators (such as a licensing deal between JK Rowling and WB) can be dealt with through contract. Either way, 'copyright' as part of our jurisprudence dies. I know which looks more likely at this point in time... Nick -- ========================================================= Nick Smith Executive Officer :: Australian Digital Alliance Copyright Advisor :: Australian Libraries Copyright Committee PO Box E202 \\ Kingston ACT 2604 Ph: 02 6262 1273 \\ Fax: 02 6273 2545 Email: nsmith@nla.gov.au \\ Web: www.digital.org.au ========================================================= From jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au Tue Jan 15 02:37:04 2002 From: jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:37:04 +1000 Subject: [LINK] News - Google Headlines / Blog updaters Message-ID: I thought this may be of interest to LINKers who like/need to keep up... After the changes made to the Google interface on & after September 11 to provide access to news links, (analysed on First Monday site), now Google's getting into news serving too. >From Dan Gillmour's blog < http://web.siliconvalley.com/content/sv/2002/01/11/opinion/dgillmor/weblog/index.htm#google > >> Google's Real-Time News Google have come up with an intriguing new page. It's an overview of current headlines, and it has enormous potential to become the first resource for real-time news. Google's "spiders" check a slew of news Web sites every hour, look for stories about similar topics and then rank them for importance in that specific time span. This means the listings change frequently. They reflect what Google is finding at pretty much that moment, not necessarily the absolute top news of the day. < http://www.google.com/news/newsheadlines.html > Cheers Jeff _____________________________________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute or reproduce this e-mail or the attachments. If you have received this message in error please notify us by return e-mail. _____________________________________________________________ From lannet@lannet.com.au Tue Jan 15 02:04:24 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:04:24 +1100 (EST) Subject: FW: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java In-Reply-To: <13735EA9F735D51188B2000629A8779F01D15728@matsydmxa.matp.newsltd.com.au> Message-ID: The only scrutineers that are allowed at the count are the candidates appointed bods. Each candidate can have 1 scrut per issuing table and the same at the count. TG that they never do, there wouldn't be room to move - just imagine the Senate count. My experience of scruts is that they are simple party grunts. As a PPM I always have to brief them as to what they can and cannot do, and what they should be looking for. They almost certainly wouldn't pick up a deliberate false initial. My idea for providing fast and accurate voting that is de-identified is: 1. You must attend at the polling place and be identified, as now, except that your name is marked off an electronic roll, on line, thus preventing multiple voting on the day of the poll instead of that being detected several weeks later. 2. The clerk issues a pre-prepared token from a stack of tokens. This token has a random, but totally unique identity, thus ensuring that the pre-prepared identity cannot be correlated to the voter's identity. This token is credit card sized card with a mag stripe holding the random identity - cheap and one time. Basically the token says that this voter is entitled to vote as they have met the requirements. (State name, address, and not previously voted in this election, and they are on the roll) 3. The voter inserts the card into a reader (reads a card any way it is presented) in the voting booth where the random identity is noted by the system. The voter makes their vote, electronically again on-line, and once that is made the identity of the token is locked in the system so that it can never be used again at that election (the reader could even retain the token so that it cannot be retrieved for attempted reuse). By this means the vote is only identifiable to the random identity of the token, not to the voter (I am discounting fingerprints or DNA samples on the card resulting from handling by the voter). 4. At close of play, bingo, preliminary result in seconds. The cost of implementing this method would probably be offset by the savings in wages. I don't know the figure for the last election, but it was BIG. On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Fitzsimmons, Caitlin wrote: > You raise an interesting point - I had not thought of that possibility > before. However, human scrutineers could check for false initials or other > such markings, and this job could be done by anyone. If the system were > electronic, only highly trained computer technicians would be able to > recognise evidence of tampering. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard Lowndes [mailto:lannet@lannet.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2002 11:09 > To: Fitzsimmons, Caitlin > Cc: 'link@www.anu.edu.au' > Subject: Re: FW: [LINK] ZDNet poll MS v Java > > > It most certainly is based on a measure of trust. There are a number of > situations where the ballot paper could be related back to the individual, > and the fact that it is not is based on the trust that is placed in the > polling place officials. I have done 20 years as a polling place manager > at all levels of government and the system could be compromised by > dishonesty. > > Consider 2 situations where ballot papers are scrutenised. > > 1. At the polling place immediately after the polls close > 2. During pre-poll or declaration poll ballot sorting, usually a day or so > after the election day. > > The former is conducted at the polling place and it would be possible for > the clerk issuing the ballot paper to the voter to uniquely identify the > paper, possibly hiding it as the initials that the clerk is required to > mark on the paper as it is issued. When the polls close the ballot boxes > are opened and the primary and TPP votes are counted at the site. That > marked ballot paper could be identified by that same clerk, remembering > that the same clerk who issued the paper is often conducting the count of > those papers. > > In the latter case the ballot papers are placed into identifying > envelopes. These envelopes are only opened at the electoral office, they > are never opened at the polling place. Once the identifying information > on the envelope has confirmed the right of the voter to vote, the envelope > is opened and the ballot papers and the envelope are separated. It is at > this point that a dishonest clerk could make the link between the identity > on the envelope and the contained ballot papers. I have never conducted a > count in this situation but I would imagine that this point is normally > very tightly monitored until the envelope and the ballot papers are well > separated. > > It is very much down to a measure of trust. > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Fitzsimmons, Caitlin wrote: > > > >>the individual. There is a measure of trust involved. > > > > How? Your name is not on the ballot paper and it's put in a box with a > whole > > heap of other unmarked ballot papers. > > > > I can only see one possibility of linking the ballot paper and vote to the > > individual - a spy (either a human spy or spy camera). This would be > rather > > inexact both in terms of identifying the individual and seeing the marks > on > > the ballot paper. > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From jmorris@intercode.com.au Tue Jan 15 02:14:48 2002 From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:14:48 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] News - Google Headlines / Blog updaters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 jeff.evans@dsrd.vic.gov.au wrote: > I thought this may be of interest to LINKers who like/need to keep up... > After the changes made to the Google interface on & after September 11 to > provide access to news links, (analysed on First Monday site), now Google's > getting into news serving too. > Hmm, has Google ever done anything that wasn't totally cool? :-) - James -- James Morris From lannet@lannet.com.au Tue Jan 15 02:16:35 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:16:35 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Guess I've done it now In-Reply-To: <00bf01c19d5b$d04a4e80$580a1aac@icon.fairfax.com.au> Message-ID: Well, don't keep us in suspense. What was the unacceptable language? (8-) On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, david higgins wrote: > I've seen corporate warnings about bad language in e-mail before, but this > is the best so far. Yesterday I sent an e-mail to a bunch of friends, one of > whom is a cop. It bounced back from the cop's e-mail address with this > message (I've deleted my friend's e-mail name): > > -------------------------------------------- > Your message to XXXXXXXX@police.nsw.gov.au > on Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:34:11 +1100 may have contained unacceptable > language. Upon completion of the communication, this message will be > subject to examination for possible contravention of the NSW Police Service > policy governing the acceptable use of Electronic Mail. > Please disregard this message if the contents of your mail item relate to > genuine Police business. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------------------------- > David Higgins > Journalist > The Sydney Morning Herald > smh.com.au > > Ph: +61 2 9282 2336 (dir) > MS Messenger: Cowspanker > > > > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From dhiggins@access.fairfax.com.au Tue Jan 15 02:28:11 2002 From: dhiggins@access.fairfax.com.au (david higgins) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:28:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Guess I've done it now References: Message-ID: <013801c19d63$e513fca0$580a1aac@icon.fairfax.com.au> Well then I'd be subject to examination for possible contravention of the LINK policy governing the acceptable use of Electronic Mail, wouldn't I? Seriously, ever heard of the police investigating bad language in e-mail, other than internally? --------------------------------------------------- David Higgins Journalist The Sydney Morning Herald smh.com.au Ph: +61 2 9282 2336 (dir) MS Messenger: Cowspanker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Lowndes" To: "david higgins" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2002 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [LINK] Guess I've done it now Well, don't keep us in suspense. What was the unacceptable language? (8-) On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, david higgins wrote: > I've seen corporate warnings about bad language in e-mail before, but this > is the best so far. Yesterday I sent an e-mail to a bunch of friends, one of > whom is a cop. It bounced back from the cop's e-mail address with this > message (I've deleted my friend's e-mail name): > > -------------------------------------------- > Your message to XXXXXXXX@police.nsw.gov.au > on Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:34:11 +1100 may have contained unacceptable > language. Upon completion of the communication, this message will be > subject to examination for possible contravention of the NSW Police Service > policy governing the acceptable use of Electronic Mail. > Please disregard this message if the contents of your mail item relate to > genuine Police business. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > > --------------------------------------------------- > David Higgins > Journalist > The Sydney Morning Herald > smh.com.au > > Ph: +61 2 9282 2336 (dir) > MS Messenger: Cowspanker > > > > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "We are either doing something, or we are not. 'Talking about' is a subset of 'not'." From brd@austarmetro.com.au Tue Jan 15 02:24:52 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:24:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Electronic Frontier Foundation Message-ID: <3C4384E4.B4920120@austarmetro.com.au> http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-000003207jan13.story A history of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, sometimes described as an "American civil liberties union for nerds". -- A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila. -- Mitch Radcliffe Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Tue Jan 15 03:23:36 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:23:36 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Judge throws out microsoft settlement proposal Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:NewsScan Daily, 14 January 2002 ("Above The Fold") - - - - - JUDGE THROWS OUT MICROSOFT SETTLEMENT PROPOSAL Federal Judge J. Frederick Motz has rejected the $1.6 billion plan proposed by Microsoft to settle more than 100 private antitrust lawsuits, saying that it was underfunded and potentially anticompetitive. "To put it bluntly, in the words of the opponents of the proposed settlement, the donation of free software could be viewed as constituting 'court-approved predatory pricing,'" said Motz. Microsoft had proposed setting up a private foundation funded by $500 million to make grants to needy schools for technology acquisitions and personnel support. The company would also donate $1 bi