From jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au Tue Oct 1 02:58:14 2002 From: jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:58:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Lotus, Microsoft, AOL prepare IM for enterprise Message-ID: Lotus, Microsoft, AOL prepare IM for enterprise < http://www.computerworld.com.au/IDG2.NSF/a/0007F3F6?OpenDocument&n=e&c=ID > >> (Computerworld) Typically regarded as a consumer-oriented text chat tool, instant messaging, as well as presence-awareness technology, are making strong inroads into enterprises, emerging as critical collaboration and productivity tools. Heavyweight infrastructure vendors, including IBM Corp. and Microsoft Corp., are accelerating expansive strategies to leverage real-time communications throughout the infrastructure stack, while a crop of smaller players have emerged in recent years to address corporate IM concerns. The activity comes at a time when around 42 percent of enterprises are using IM for true business applications, and that percentage is expected to rise, according to Osterman Research. "By this time next year, you'll see 65 [percent] to 70 percent of companies using IM for a variety of business applications," said Michael Osterman, president of Osterman Research Inc. in Black Diamond, Wash. ...both vendors (MS and IBM) are planning to leverage emerging Web services standards in their toolsets to help developers exploit real-time communications and presence-awareness technology in enterprise applications. "What started out as a tactical application is being developed and nurtured by companies like IBM and Microsoft to have both a collaborative and productive benefit as an application, but further being baked into applications through the platform and standards," said Dana Gardner, research director at Aberdeen Group Inc. in Boston. The strategic goal is to make real-time collaborative activities seamless to business processes, application activities, and consumers and partners on the supply chain, Gardner said. >>>>>>>> This raises interesting questions for businesses, eg. already staff "misuse of Internet" resources was recently cited as the major reason for dismissal (can't recall where I saw this...), and monitoring of staff's email and net access is fairly standard; presumably this is another potential loss of privacy?? Regards Jeff Evans Online Services Manager, Business Information Services Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development Victoria, Australia http://www.businessaccess.vic.gov.au http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au http://www.export.vic.gov.au http://www.ecommerce.vic.gov.au -- _____________________________________________________________ Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development Department of Tourism, Sport and the Commonwealth Games Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute or reproduce this e-mail or the attachments. If you have received this message in error please notify us by return e-mail. ______________________________________________________________ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From brd@austarmetro.com.au Tue Oct 1 03:49:05 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:49:05 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ACS pushes for ethics-based recruiting in Government Message-ID: <3D991B31.8C74619B@austarmetro.com.au> ACS pushes for ethics-based recruiting in Government BY SIOBHAN CHAPMAN 1 October, 2002 9:28 SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA http://www.computerworld.com.au/idg2.nsf/All/CE73F0598B964A5DCA256C4400827E0D!OpenDocument&NavArea=Home&SelectedCategoryName=News The Australian Computer Society wants the Federal Government to acknowledge and strive to improve the level of professionalism within its IT staff. The ACS called for improved emphasis on professionalism amongst IT staff in the public sector as part of a submission the Senate Finance and Public Administration committee's inquiry into Australian Public Service recruitment and training. In the submission, the ACS called for the Government to establish recruitment guidelines for IT professionals detailing appropriate qualifications, working experience and undertakings. ACS chief executive Dennis Furini said the submission allowed ACS to stress the increasingly strategic role that IT professionals are playing in Government, particularly in the delivery of products and services. "In recognition of their important role, we believe recruitment guidelines for IT professionals should include the ACS Core Body of Knowledge and Code of Ethics as well as our Code of Professional Conduct and Professional Practice," Furini said. "A commitment to a code of ethics and code of professional conduct is essential in terms of ensuring that IT-related work is always carried out to the highest possible standard, bearing in mind any potential impact on the organisation and the wider community." Brian Kealey, operations manager in the information services branch at Queensland Transport, said, "IT professionals [in the public sector] are at least as good as the private sector. "It would be unfair or unjust to question the level of professionalism in the public sector, given the information and scale of ICT infrastructure that they are involved in and service delivery they are caught up in, in a non-commercial environment," Kealey said. Kealey cited the Government's push to deliver services via electronic means to illustrate the role of the IT professional as a strategic player in government agencies. "A lot of the public sector is moving ahead with electronic service delivery; IT professionals are in the driving seat of [these] projects," he said, adding that there is limited competition driving the level of electronic service delivery that the government provides. In August the Community and Public Sector Union made its submission to the Senate Finance and Public Administration committee, raising concerns about insufficient training budgets leading to a haemorrhaging of skilled staff from the public sector, not just from IT. Furini encouraged the committee to consider using the annual ACS Remuneration Survey as a way of tracking industry wage levels and to provide regular professional development for its IT staff to enable them to maintain the currency of their skills. "We also see a significant opportunity for the Commonwealth to provide valuable work experience placements for young IT students and graduates, helping to ease the transition between study and full-time work while taking advantage of their training and enthusiasm," he said. -- Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes -- Edsger Dijkstra Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Oct 1 04:45:04 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:45:04 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Lotus, Microsoft, AOL prepare IM for enterprise Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDC9@EXCHANGE_AU> Jeff, It sounds like "let's get together to work out how to flog Instant Messaging to corporates" ... It's a bit of a giggle really. In a world full of two-fingered typists, good for 30 wpm with a tailwind and unable to punctuate, capitalise or spell, we're going to make a little Instant Messaging window the foundation of interpersonal collaboration. > instant messaging, as well as presence-awareness technology, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah. Because IM only works as "a real business application" if you know the person you want is at the screen. Otherwise, imagine the process: [Instant Message to RC] - get no response [Phone RC] - phone diverts to mobile [RC Answers Mobile] - "Hey, are you near your desk? I just sent you an instant message..." This then morphs into e-mails ... "Hi everybody, can we book an instant messaging session for 2pm this arvo?" ... "yes", "Can we make it 3.30?" and "Out of Office Autoreply" being the answers. This extract is a gem: > accelerating expansive strategies to leverage > real-time communications throughout the infrastructure stack, ...you'd need a computer scientist, a logician and a linguist to decode the phrase; only to find that it's utterly meaningless... > The activity comes at a time when around 42 percent of enterprises are > using IM for true business applications, When I found the research () I also found that there was no definition of what constitutes "true business applications"; and the researcher is, unsurprisingly, himself an IM advocate - so what we have is an evangelist researcher supporting corporate strategies which vindicate his point of view... Richard Chirgwin > -----Original Message----- > From: jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au [mailto:jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au] > Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2002 12:58 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: [LINK] Lotus, Microsoft, AOL prepare IM for enterprise > > > Lotus, Microsoft, AOL prepare IM for enterprise > < > http://www.computerworld.com.au/IDG2.NSF/a/0007F3F6?OpenDocume > nt&n=e&c=ID > > > >> > (Computerworld) Typically regarded as a consumer-oriented > text chat tool, > instant messaging, as well as presence-awareness technology, > are making > strong inroads into enterprises, emerging as critical > collaboration and > productivity tools. Heavyweight infrastructure vendors, > including IBM Corp. > and Microsoft Corp., are accelerating expansive strategies to leverage > real-time communications throughout the infrastructure stack, > while a crop > of smaller players have emerged in recent years to address > corporate IM > concerns. > > The activity comes at a time when around 42 percent of enterprises are > using IM for true business applications, and that percentage > is expected to > rise, according to Osterman Research. "By this time next > year, you'll see > 65 [percent] to 70 percent of companies using IM for a > variety of business > applications," said Michael Osterman, president of Osterman > Research Inc. > in Black Diamond, Wash. > > ...both vendors (MS and IBM) are planning to leverage > emerging Web services > standards in their toolsets to help developers exploit real-time > communications and presence-awareness technology in enterprise > applications. > > "What started out as a tactical application is being > developed and nurtured > by companies like IBM and Microsoft to have both a collaborative and > productive benefit as an application, but further being baked into > applications through the platform and standards," said Dana Gardner, > research director at Aberdeen Group Inc. in Boston. > > The strategic goal is to make real-time collaborative > activities seamless > to business processes, application activities, and consumers > and partners > on the supply chain, Gardner said. > > >>>>>>>> > > This raises interesting questions for businesses, eg. already > staff "misuse > of Internet" resources was recently cited as the major reason > for dismissal > (can't recall where I saw this...), and monitoring of staff's > email and net > access is fairly standard; presumably this is another > potential loss of > privacy?? > > Regards > > Jeff Evans > Online Services Manager, Business Information Services > Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development > Victoria, Australia > > http://www.businessaccess.vic.gov.au > http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au > http://www.export.vic.gov.au > http://www.ecommerce.vic.gov.au > -- > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development > Department of Tourism, Sport and the Commonwealth Games > Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and > confidential information. > > If you are not the intended recipient, you may not > distribute or reproduce this e-mail or the attachments. > > If you have received this message in error please notify us > by return e-mail. > ______________________________________________________________ > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From chris@sw.oz.au Tue Oct 1 04:58:17 2002 From: chris@sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:58:17 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Long-term Linux half the price of Windows In-Reply-To: <3D98D699.86A62182@austarmetro.com.au>; from Bernard Robertson-Dunn on Tue, Oct 01, 2002 at 08:56:25AM +1000 References: <3D98D699.86A62182@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <20021001145817.G5697@aurema.com> On Tue, Oct 01, 2002 at 08:56:25AM +1000, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/29/1032734373927.html > > The cost of deploying Linux in an enterprise over three years is less than > half that of Microsoft's Windows and about an eighth of the price of Sun's > Solaris, a United States study has found. > > The Robert Frances Group has found Linux costs $74,475 to deploy, against > $190,662 for Windows and $561,520 for Solaris. Despite having to pay > slightly higher administrator salaries, Linux is cheaper to maintain > because it requires fewer security upgrades, has less downtime and is > easier to manage. > > The study found Microsoft's software assurance program, which demands an > annual rent for software and access to regular updates, increases costs > significantly. Microsoft's legal enforcement program also raises the cost > per seat by up to $50. > > "Although some initial costs were higher at points, the ability to > massively scale (Linux) horizontally without additional licensing fees can > yield significant cost savings over the long term," analysts say. > www.rfgonline.com Much as I may agree with the motivation, there are a lot of questionable assumptions in this article... For instance, "Linux costs $74,475 to deploy, against $190,662 for Windows and $561,520 for Solaris" ... six significant digits? The search capability on the Fairfax site was next to useless for finding the source of the information, but a Google search lead directly to this:- http://www-1.ibm.com/linux/RFG-LinuxTCO-vFINAL-Jul2002.pdf the obvious source of the numbers and the quote. Although titled "Total Cost of Ownership for Linux in the Enterprise" (as if it were a general result), it is in fact based on web server deployments only. But now take a look at how they compared hardware costs:- "Therefor, in an effort to maintain a fair comparison for x86-based system costs, RFG configured identical systems from each of the four top x86 server hardware vendors in the market: Compaq, Dell, HP, and IBM. Basic system specifications were a rack-mountable Pentium III 1.2 GHz server configured with 512MB RAM, and two 18GB SCSI hard disk drives in a hardware RAID-1 configuration, and 3-year samebusiness- day on-site warranty support. The average cost for this server from these vendors was $5069, yielding a cost per Processing Unit of $38,524 for Windows and $37,511 for Linux. "In contrast, there was a good deal of similarity in Solaris hardware configurations. Although Solaris 8 is available for the x86 architecture, no survey participants operated with this configuration. The most common Sun servers in use were the SunFire 4800 and 6800. Among survey participants, the average cost per server was $157,000, yielding a cost per Solaris Processing Unit of $345,400." But also have a look at http://www.sun.com/servers/midrange/ I suspect that they failed to properly normalise SPARC vs x86 performance - the "Servers per Processing Unit" table on page 2 gives a Solaris on x86 number in spite of the note above that no one seriously uses Solaris 8 on x86. [157*2.2 = 345.4 but the 2.2 scale factor is for x86, not SPARC! and they are applying it to an average cost per server derived from the survey, without defining the capacity of the servers. Chris ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Oct 1 04:57:34 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:57:34 +1000 Subject: FW: [LINK] Unspinning Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDCA@EXCHANGE_AU> Linkers, Stephen Wilson of Securenet corrected me on the size of the chips ... okay, so they don't pollute much! Thanks for the details, Stepen. RC Posted with Permission: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Richard You should actually rest easy about heavy metal pollution. Leaving aside whether or not semiconductor chips contain much metal at all, your guesstimate of half a gram each is out by about 1,000 times. If the chip is a half millimeter on a side, its volume is 0.125e-3 ml. The density of silicon is about 5g/ml, for a chip mass of a snick over 0.0005g. If a chip did weigh half a gram then you really would have some heavy metal -- 300 times the density of mercury. Forgive the nitpick but it's not often that a consultant like me gets to play spot the hyperbole with an independent commentator like you! Cheers, Stephen Wilson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au Tue Oct 1 05:44:08 2002 From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:44:08 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Lotus, Microsoft, AOL prepare IM for enterprise Message-ID: <200210010544.g915iEfG001741@anu.edu.au> From: Chirgwin, Richard (1/10/02 2:45 PM) >> instant messaging, as well as presence-awareness technology, >Yeah. Because IM only works as "a real business application" if you know the >person you want is at the screen I suspect they might mean something different, something which augments the chat-channel model of IM with a social proxy. s/suspect/hope/ Tom Erickson wrote a paper on this for CHI 99 >"We call systems which provide perceptually-based social cues which afford >awareness and accountability "Socially Translucent Systems." In such >systems we believe it will be easier for users to carry on coherent >discussions; to observe and imitate others' actions; to engage in peer >pressure; to create, notice, and conform to social conventions. We see >social translucence as a fundamental requirement for supporting >communication and collaboration." (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center) http://www.pliant.org/personal/Tom_Erickson/loops.chi99.paper.html e. ______________________________________________________________________ eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s information architect http://www.ironclad.net.au/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au Tue Oct 1 05:45:16 2002 From: ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au (Ian Johnston) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:45:16 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Over 1,300 generic names in .au will become available for registration on 3 October. Message-ID: Source: http://www.auda.org.au/about/generics.html auDA publishes list of unallocated com.au ‘generic’ names Melbourne, 1 October 2002 – auDA has today published the list of com.au names that were not allocated in the generic auction process. The names will become available for registration on Thursday 3 October 2002 at 11.00am AEST. The names will be allocated according to the normal domain name policy rules and registration process for com.au names. People who wish to apply for a name should contact an auDA accredited registrar. A list of registrars is available on the auDA website at http://www.auda.org.au/registrars. Prices may vary, people should shop around for the offer that best suits them. ... -- Ian Johnston, Policy Consultant Small Enterprise Telecommunications Centre (SETEL) www.setel.com.au mailto:ian.johnston@setel.com.au 02 6258 3409 (B/F) 02 6259 7777 (B) 0413 990 112 (M) SETEL is a national small business consumer association advancing the interest of Australian small business as telecommunications and e-commerce consumers ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From eric@ironclad.net.au Tue Oct 1 07:57:38 2002 From: eric@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:57:38 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Secret web bans in FOI changes Message-ID: <1178627046-27241790@ironclad.net.au> uh oh ... the war on terror is a useful distraction, it seems. http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5200940%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E ,00.html In addition to pornography, the Broadcasting Services Act allows the banning of material refused classification by the Australian Broadcasting Authority if it contains "detailed instruction in crime, violence or drug use". But such bans - which could take the form of either forced removal, or adding the sites' addresses to internet-filtering software - are likely to remain secret thanks to upcoming changes to the Freedom of Information Act. Cracking down on attempts to access the list of banned sites, Canberra has slipped in changes to the act to specifically exempt such information from FOI requests. The Communications Legislation Amendment Bill comes in the wake of Electronic Frontiers Australia's failed attempt before the Administrative Appeals Tribunal to force the ABA to release the list. Now the Government is moving to put the secrecy of the list "beyond doubt". "It's not in the public interest to provide Refused Classification website material, including child pornography," said a spokesman for Communications Minister Richard Alston. ______________________________________________________________________ eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s genius for hire http://www.ironclad.net.au/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From grove@zeta.org.au Tue Oct 1 09:21:42 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:21:42 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Long-term Linux half the price of Windows In-Reply-To: <20021001145817.G5697@aurema.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Chris Maltby wrote: > Much as I may agree with the motivation, there are a lot of questionable > assumptions in this article... > > For instance, "Linux costs $74,475 to deploy, against $190,662 for > Windows and $561,520 for Solaris" ... six significant digits? > But also have a look at http://www.sun.com/servers/midrange/ > I suspect that they failed to properly normalise SPARC vs x86 performance > - the "Servers per Processing Unit" table on page 2 gives a Solaris > on x86 number in spite of the note above that no one seriously uses > Solaris 8 on x86. [157*2.2 = 345.4 but the 2.2 scale factor is for x86, > not SPARC! and they are applying it to an average cost per server derived > from the survey, without defining the capacity of the servers. Very good points, Chris. I also boggled when I saw the Solaris comparisons. You also get what you pay for too. Linux on Intel doesn't scale anywhere near as well as Solaris on SPARC. The Sun processors may be more expensive, but you can run far many more Oracle instances or Apache virtual servers on them then a similar Linux/Intel system. They also have improved "lights out" management technology that lowers admin costs further over a Linux system. Also, if you are serious about using Linux in an Enterprise situation, you will not use low end hardware and will use RAID controllers, gigabit ethernet and redundant power supplies and subsystems. Linux can do all these things on the right hardware, but not as neatly as Sun and the cost difference to do so is further eroded when you have to shell out for the high end boxes. rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Tue Oct 1 09:55:06 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:55:06 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Secret web bans in FOI changes In-Reply-To: <1178627046-27241790@ironclad.net.au> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021001195352.0692fc10@pop> >Now the Government is moving to put the secrecy of the list "beyond >doubt". > >"It's not in the public interest to provide Refused Classification >website material, including child pornography," said a spokesman for >Communications Minister Richard Alston. I just find it ironic that people go on about censorship in one direction or another, yet often find they themselves are responsible for censoring commentary or providing it, whichever is the oppsoite. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From john_sankoh2002@lycos.com Tue Oct 1 10:28:23 2002 From: john_sankoh2002@lycos.com (john_sankoh2002@lycos.com) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:28:23 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] URGENT BUSSINESS TRANSACTION. Message-ID: <200210011028.g91ARvI9002376@anu.edu.au> charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: john_sankoh2002@lycos.com Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:28:30 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.00.10 X-Mailer: Foxmail FROM: JOHN SANKOH 0031-650 842 563. Dear Sir, You may be surprised to receive this letter from me since you do not know me personally. The purpose of my introduction is that I am John sankoh the first son of Sankoh. Mulaga one of the most popular black farmer in Zimbabwe who was recently murdered in the land dispute in my country. I got your contact through network online hence decided to write you. Before the death of my father, he had taken me to Johannesburg to deposit the sum of USD$14.5 million (Fourteen million, Five Hundred thousand United States dollars), in one of the private security company, as he foresaw the looming danger in Zimbabwe this money was deposited in a box as gem stones to avoid much demurrage from security company. This amount was meant for the purchase of new machines and chemicals for the Farms and establishment of new farms in Swaziland. This land problem came when Zimbabwean President Mr. Robert Mugabe introduced a new Land Act Reform wholly affecting the rich white farmers and some few black farmers, and this resulted to the killing and mob action by Zimbabwean war veterans and some lunatics in the society. In fact a lot of people were killed because of this Land reform Act for which my father was one of the victims. It is against this background that, I and my family fled Zimbabwe for fear of our lives and recurrently staying in the Netherlands where we are seeking political asylum and more so have decided to transfer my father's money to a more reliable foreign account. since the law of Netherlands prohibits a refugee (asylum seeker) to open any bank account or to be involved in any financial transaction throughout the territorial zone of Netherlands, As the eldest son of my father, I am saddled with the responsibility of seeking a genuine foreign account where this money could be transferred without the knowledge of my government who are bent on taking everything we have got. The South African government seems to be playing along with them. I am faced with the dilemma of moving this amount of money out of South Africa for fear of going through the same experience in future, both countries have similar political history. As a businessman, I am seeking for a partner who I have to entrust my future and that of my family in his hands, I must let you know that this transaction is risk free. If you accept to assist me and my family, all I what you to do for me, is to make an arrangements with the security company to clear the consignment(funds)from their affiliate office here in the Netherlands's I have already given directives for the consignment to be brought to the Netherlands from South Africa. But before then all modalities will have to be put in place like change of ownership to the consignment and more importantly this money I intend to use for investment. I have two options for you. Firstly you can choose to have certain percentage of the money for nominating your account for this transaction. Or you can go into partnership with me for the proper profitable investment of the money in your country. Whichever the option you want, feel free to notify me. I have also mapped out 5% of this money for all kinds of expenses incurred in the process of this transaction. If you do not prefer a partnership I am willing to give you 10% of the money while the remaining 85% will be for my investment in your country. Contact me with the above E-mail addressee, while I implore you to maintain the absolute secrecy required in this transaction. Thanks, GOD BLESS Yours Faithfully, John Sankoh. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From john_sankoh2002@lycos.com Tue Oct 1 10:29:39 2002 From: john_sankoh2002@lycos.com (john_sankoh2002@lycos.com) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:29:39 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] URGENT BUSSINESS TRANSACTION. Message-ID: <200210011029.g91ATCfH012214@anu.edu.au> charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII"; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: john_sankoh2002@lycos.com Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:29:47 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.00.10 X-Mailer: Foxmail FROM: JOHN SANKOH 0031-650 842 563. Dear Sir, You may be surprised to receive this letter from me since you do not know me personally. The purpose of my introduction is that I am John sankoh the first son of Sankoh. Mulaga one of the most popular black farmer in Zimbabwe who was recently murdered in the land dispute in my country. I got your contact through network online hence decided to write you. Before the death of my father, he had taken me to Johannesburg to deposit the sum of USD$14.5 million (Fourteen million, Five Hundred thousand United States dollars), in one of the private security company, as he foresaw the looming danger in Zimbabwe this money was deposited in a box as gem stones to avoid much demurrage from security company. This amount was meant for the purchase of new machines and chemicals for the Farms and establishment of new farms in Swaziland. This land problem came when Zimbabwean President Mr. Robert Mugabe introduced a new Land Act Reform wholly affecting the rich white farmers and some few black farmers, and this resulted to the killing and mob action by Zimbabwean war veterans and some lunatics in the society. In fact a lot of people were killed because of this Land reform Act for which my father was one of the victims. It is against this background that, I and my family fled Zimbabwe for fear of our lives and recurrently staying in the Netherlands where we are seeking political asylum and more so have decided to transfer my father's money to a more reliable foreign account. since the law of Netherlands prohibits a refugee (asylum seeker) to open any bank account or to be involved in any financial transaction throughout the territorial zone of Netherlands, As the eldest son of my father, I am saddled with the responsibility of seeking a genuine foreign account where this money could be transferred without the knowledge of my government who are bent on taking everything we have got. The South African government seems to be playing along with them. I am faced with the dilemma of moving this amount of money out of South Africa for fear of going through the same experience in future, both countries have similar political history. As a businessman, I am seeking for a partner who I have to entrust my future and that of my family in his hands, I must let you know that this transaction is risk free. If you accept to assist me and my family, all I what you to do for me, is to make an arrangements with the security company to clear the consignment(funds)from their affiliate office here in the Netherlands's I have already given directives for the consignment to be brought to the Netherlands from South Africa. But before then all modalities will have to be put in place like change of ownership to the consignment and more importantly this money I intend to use for investment. I have two options for you. Firstly you can choose to have certain percentage of the money for nominating your account for this transaction. Or you can go into partnership with me for the proper profitable investment of the money in your country. Whichever the option you want, feel free to notify me. I have also mapped out 5% of this money for all kinds of expenses incurred in the process of this transaction. If you do not prefer a partnership I am willing to give you 10% of the money while the remaining 85% will be for my investment in your country. Contact me with the above E-mail addressee, while I implore you to maintain the absolute secrecy required in this transaction. Thanks, GOD BLESS Yours Faithfully, John Sankoh. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From effectivebusiness@pplications.com.au Tue Oct 1 15:42:29 2002 From: effectivebusiness@pplications.com.au (Mark Hughes) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:42:29 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses Message-ID: Hello Linkers, Many computer viruses don't do significant damage to systems they infect. But some do. I believe this is reasonably well understood by a significant proportion of Users who aren't IT professionals. That is, even though they're not computer experts, I believe there is a general belief among mainstream computer Users that viruses could affect their computer, and in the worst case they could lose some or all of their data. There's been enough media coverage of viruses over enough time for this level of understanding to have percolated through the non-technical User community. The "you could lose your data" threat is closely associated with viruses. However (and its been discussed regularly on Link) this understanding of the threat does not appear to have been enough to make significant numbers of Users change away from Mr. Gates' operating systems to ones that are known to be less susceptible to viruses. Bill's share of the end User market appears to be holding up reasonably well. In fact, "you'll have lower costs if you don't use Windows" appears to be having more effect on driving change than "you'll have lower data loss if you don't use Windows". Even more surprising to me is that despite the fact that Users know viruses exist and viruses get lots of media attention, a significant proportion of Users - both individual and business - don't keep their applications up-to-date with security fixes / patches, or even use anti-virus software. If they did, there wouldn't be so many systems affected by viruses. So: * for the vast majority of Users, the threat of losing data isn't enough to make them change applications * for a significant proportion of Users, the threat of losing data isn't enough to even make them use up-to-date antivirus software Now, I notice upon reading my email today, that I have received quite a few emails which include viruses. More than I've received in quite a while - perhaps there are some new ones out. All of these viruses have been caught by either my (a Bill G.) operating system (with up-to-date patches) or my anti-virus software (with up-to-date definitions). So I don't know whether these viruses have effects in the 'nuisance' scale or in the 'catastrophic' scale. But the virus emails I've received today appear to be a bit different than ones I've received in the past, as today's crop appear to be trying much harder to look like innocent emails by taking a real email from the sender's system and sending that out with the virus attached. I've been getting some quite lengthy and detailed emails from all sorts of individuals and companies who I guess don't know that their 'private' information is being spread far and wide by a virus. And this leads me to wonder whether the threat of "viruses may spread your private information around the web" may have more effect on Users than "viruses may cause you to lose your data". The traditional threat is: "if you get a virus, you'll lose information that's important to you". I wonder if the threat should be reversed: "if you get a virus, you won't have to worry about losing information that's important to you - the virus may spread your information around the net so much that even your enemies will have copies". Perhaps Nortons and McAfee etc are missing the boat here on how to market their applications. I'd be interested in reports from other Linkers on whether the "the biggest risk isn't losing your data - its having everyone else view it" line has a greater effect on User behaviour; if Linkers care to try it on Users they're working with. Regards, Mark Mark Hughes Effective Business Applications Pty Ltd +61 4 1374 3959 www.pplications.com.au effectivebusiness@pplications.com.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Tue Oct 1 18:18:14 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 04:18:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mmm .... There are a number of the puppies that are really malicious. I mean a couple of years ago I got one called CIH. This puppy waited until its date of activation and promptly overwrote the BIOS on the motherboard. (It was able to do this because Intel - despite virulent protestations from the user community generally - decided to leave its BOS un-write-protected about four years ago.) The net result of that puppy from memory was that 50,000 motherboards in this country alone went West. (And then the choice was to get a new BIOS chip and install/solder it, or nab an EPROM burner from somewhere and copy a BIOS that survived the debacle onto the old corrupted BIOS chip, or simply install a new motherboard ... at between $150 and $300 per pop.) Across the world this puppy is supposed to have blown away in excess of 2.5 million PC's - and in repair costs (at say $200 per PC for the motherboard, and maybe $100 for tech labour for the uninitiated ... or a value on their time for those who did it themselves), and the cost of lost 'productivity' whilst these PC's were out of action that also seriously mounted up. There have been other hardware hitters from memory, so the real cost of any virus isn't just lost data. It's time and expense in eradicating it (I don't see MS or Intel bundling freebie virus packages with their insecure PC's), it's the drain infected systems place on networks and servers, it's increased bandwidth wastage for the mail viruses and the like. It's system down time. It's a whole host of issues. And you have to also factor in a cost for aggravation value ... I got pretty steamed when the CIH virus wiped me out I can tell you! :) Regards At 1:42 AM +1000 2/10/2002, Mark Hughes wrote: >Hello Linkers, > >Many computer viruses don't do significant damage to systems they infect. >But some do. I believe this is reasonably well understood by a significant >proportion of Users who aren't IT professionals. > >That is, even though they're not computer experts, I believe there is a >general belief among mainstream computer Users that viruses could affect >their computer, and in the worst case they could lose some or all of their >data. There's been enough media coverage of viruses over enough time for >this level of understanding to have percolated through the non-technical >User community. The "you could lose your data" threat is closely associated >with viruses. > > >However (and its been discussed regularly on Link) this understanding of the >threat does not appear to have been enough to make significant numbers of >Users change away from Mr. Gates' operating systems to ones that are known >to be less susceptible to viruses. Bill's share of the end User market >appears to be holding up reasonably well. > >In fact, "you'll have lower costs if you don't use Windows" appears to be >having more effect on driving change than "you'll have lower data loss if >you don't use Windows". > > >Even more surprising to me is that despite the fact that Users know viruses >exist and viruses get lots of media attention, a significant proportion of >Users - both individual and business - don't keep their applications >up-to-date with security fixes / patches, or even use anti-virus software. >If they did, there wouldn't be so many systems affected by viruses. > > >So: > > * for the vast majority of Users, the threat of losing data isn't enough to >make them change applications > * for a significant proportion of Users, the threat of losing data isn't >enough to even make them use up-to-date antivirus software > > > >Now, I notice upon reading my email today, that I have received quite a few >emails which include viruses. More than I've received in quite a while - >perhaps there are some new ones out. All of these viruses have been caught >by either my (a Bill G.) operating system (with up-to-date patches) or my >anti-virus software (with up-to-date definitions). So I don't know whether >these viruses have effects in the 'nuisance' scale or in the 'catastrophic' >scale. > >But the virus emails I've received today appear to be a bit different than >ones I've received in the past, as today's crop appear to be trying much >harder to look like innocent emails by taking a real email from the sender's >system and sending that out with the virus attached. I've been getting some >quite lengthy and detailed emails from all sorts of individuals and >companies who I guess don't know that their 'private' information is being >spread far and wide by a virus. > > >And this leads me to wonder whether the threat of "viruses may spread your >private information around the web" may have more effect on Users than >"viruses may cause you to lose your data". > > >The traditional threat is: "if you get a virus, you'll lose information >that's important to you". > >I wonder if the threat should be reversed: "if you get a virus, you won't >have to worry about losing information that's important to you - the virus >may spread your information around the net so much that even your enemies >will have copies". > > >Perhaps Nortons and McAfee etc are missing the boat here on how to market >their applications. > > >I'd be interested in reports from other Linkers on whether the "the biggest >risk isn't losing your data - its having everyone else view it" line has a >greater effect on User behaviour; if Linkers care to try it on Users they're >working with. > > > > >Regards, Mark > >Mark Hughes >Effective Business Applications Pty Ltd >+61 4 1374 3959 >www.pplications.com.au >effectivebusiness@pplications.com.au > > > > > > >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Tue Oct 1 20:46:10 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:46:10 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Mark Hughes wrote: > Hello Linkers, > > Many computer viruses don't do significant damage to systems they infect. > But some do. I believe this is reasonably well understood by a significant > proportion of Users who aren't IT professionals. I cannot agree here. My experience is that the vast majority of users really don't have a clue about their computers. I'm not only referring to the casual domestic user here, but also to the regular business user, perhaps more so the latter. If you ask most office workers what opsys is running on their computer that they use 9 to 5, my money says that most couldn't even name the opsys. The media hype about viruses has made most ppl scared to use computers and has conditioned them to accept regular reboots, re-installs, virus corruptions as standard procedure. Once a user has a PC in front of them they very rarely upgrade any of it until they replace it; in the larger organisations this is part of the IT function admittedly. The usual response I get from users who have copped a virus is "It suddenly started acting funny, I haven't done anything" -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Tue Oct 1 22:44:39 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:44:39 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021002084022.06928c30@pop> > > Many computer viruses don't do significant damage to systems they infect. > > But some do. I believe this is reasonably well understood by a significant > > proportion of Users who aren't IT professionals. > >I cannot agree here. My experience is that the vast majority of users >really don't have a clue about their computers. I'm not only referring to >the casual domestic user here, but also to the regular business user, >perhaps more so the latter. I tend to agree with Howard here. Even though I don't provide end user support (and supposedly retired from IT) I still get heaps of calls from people asking me how to do this or that. Most of the calls relate to Microsoft based software that I don't even use or know how to configure. (Ignorance is sometimes bliss!) >If you ask most office workers what opsys is running on their computer >that they use 9 to 5, my money says that most couldn't even name the >opsys. Only too true. I ask people and they say "Windows" I ask what version and they ask "how do I find out?" >The media hype about viruses has made most ppl scared to use computers and >has conditioned them to accept regular reboots, re-installs, virus >corruptions as standard procedure. The only virus I've ever had "active" was the stoned virus in the mid 1980's. I've NEVER had a virus infect any of my systems, Windows or otherwise. I must be getting about 80-90 virus attachments a day presently, but they just get dumped into the bit bucket. It doesn't matter how many times I tell people to swap to Eudora they won't get a virus so easily again, they continue to use Outlook. >Once a user has a PC in front of them >they very rarely upgrade any of it until they replace it; in the larger >organisations this is part of the IT function admittedly. This is true too. Most people at the SOHO user level I know, don't even replace a faulty hard drive, they pop down to their local (not pub, PC shop) and buy a new computer. I keep asking for the old systems :) I know someone who "replaced" a PIII a few months ago, it was even still in warranty, but the PC shop told them they'd be better upgrading. >The usual response I get from users who have copped a virus is "It >suddenly started acting funny, I haven't done anything" Except used Outlook or Word with Attachments :) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Oct 1 21:30:26 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:30:26 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Lotus, Microsoft, AOL prepare IM for enterprise In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDC9@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002072708.02427050@pop.primenet.com> At 02:45 PM 1/10/02 +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > > instant messaging, as well as presence-awareness technology, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Yeah. Because IM only works as "a real business application" if you know the >person you want is at the screen. Otherwise, imagine the process: >[Instant Message to RC] - get no response >[Phone RC] - phone diverts to mobile >[RC Answers Mobile] - "Hey, are you near your desk? I just sent you an >instant message..." The presence awareness bit is critical to avoid the situation you describe. Anyone ever use AOL's messenger service where they talk about your buddies? I wasn't too keen on having a commercial system, AOL, know when or where I was connected to the net. Didn't give me a feeling of security. But the 'who's here' list of your own identified buddies at least gave some indication. It certainly should be a choice as to whether it is known you are on or not, supporting Jeff's original concerns over employer big-brotherism. On the other hand, I participated in an online conference a few weeks ago that had a 'who's here' list so you could instant message. There were frustrations of not being able to see the full list, only the first 10 or so [think about the size of a list in a large corporation!], not being able to keep a record of the IM sent unlike email, and still relying on the person at the other end seeing that a message had arrived for them. Otherwise it was just a cut down versioin of email without all the benefits. Other approaches like live chat software does take coordination, just like a teleconference. And if it is sophisticated enough, you can get a transcript out of the system. EFA used to use a chat service for board meetings and it worked reasonably well for a whole lot cheaper than phone conferencing for a group that was keyboard skilled. I'm also across another system that has other components of group facilitation built in that allows multiple people to see what others are entering on up to some unfeasible number of screens like 64 [maybe not that high, but so high you can't read all the screens]. It's got promise if used properly and we're working on whether it is acceptable for online education applications. So I guess what I'm saying is that like any technology, there are upsides and downsides, and it isn't until you examine the environment and the goals of the activity that you can find out if it's the right choice for the job. Cheers, Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Oct 1 22:25:40 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:25:40 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Office of the e-Envoy releases revised Channels Strategy Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002082525.02bece70@pop.primenet.com> from the UK >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:45:09 +0100 >Reply-To: Interoperability issues across >domains >Sender: Interoperability issues across >domains >From: Paul Miller >Subject: Office of the e-Envoy releases revised Channels Strategy >To: INTEROPERABILITY@JISCMAIL.AC.UK >X-Status: > >List members may be interested in this revised document from the UK's Office >of the e-Envoy. > >http://www.e-envoy.gov.uk/oee/oee.nsf/sections/mediacentre-pressreleases-200 >2/$file/30sep02.htm > >The document addresses issues around the delivery of content to users via >devices or channels other than the 'traditional' PC-based web browser. >Other channels include mobile phones, PDA's, digital television, and the >like. > >Paul > > > -- dr. paul miller --------------------------- p.miller@ukoln.ac.uk -- > interoperability focus, ukoln mobile: +44 (0)7710 481812 > tel: +44 (0)1482 466890 > ----------------------------- http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/interop-focus/ -- JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Oct 1 22:45:48 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:45:48 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002084043.02bc73c0@pop.primenet.com> At 01:42 AM 2/10/02 +1000, you wrote: >I'd be interested in reports from other Linkers on whether the "the biggest >risk isn't losing your data - its having everyone else view it" line has a >greater effect on User behaviour; if Linkers care to try it on Users they're >working with. I think it's also worth commenting on embarrassment factor. I just had to mention to a friend that more than likely her PC is infected with Bugbear. I received four courtesy messages from Yahoo and others that a message with my address attached had been sent and rejected. I have NAV, so doubt very much if my system did it at all. And the giveaway was that my friend: - uses Outlook - I don't and I screen out lots on my server before even bringing messages in - belongs to one of the Yahoo groups that sent the alert and I don't - and is probably not updating her virus software regularly or properly, mine is automatic I saw also that there were some connections to ATO people as I got a return from the ato mail daemon, but that may be a second level affect. So, that's my comment. yes, distribution of attached files [I get lots of those, and some look really juicy, but I don't download them to my PC and wouldn't open them anyway because I'd be afraid of where the virus is lurking]. But also this bit about tagging people as being infected by stealing addresses from address books. Klex is rampant! Bugbear is also back. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From saliya@hinet.net.au Tue Oct 1 22:50:06 2002 From: saliya@hinet.net.au (Saliya Wimalaratne) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:50:06 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Mark Hughes wrote: > In fact, "you'll have lower costs if you don't use Windows" appears to be > having more effect on driving change than "you'll have lower data loss if > you don't use Windows". Of course, in general data loss -> financial loss -> higher costs. > And this leads me to wonder whether the threat of "viruses may spread your > private information around the web" may have more effect on Users than > "viruses may cause you to lose your data". A worthwhile proposition, IMO. The fact is that most of the *really scary* viruses (i.e. those that automagically infect Windows systems), that we *know* about, have been fairly benign. Whether due to a coding fault, or to a proof-of-concept intent, they've really not done much damage to end-user systems. The day that someone takes the source code for one of those benign incarnations and makes it do something *very* nasty (e.g. install a monitoring executable on the machine; or even simply format the HDD) is the day that we will see 'end-users' start seriously considering alternatives to bugware. We scan for viruses on inbound/outbound emails - something larger ISP's can't/won't do. About 10% of the 'outbound' notifications we get (this means that one of our customers has a virus/worm - and in general, these are few and far between these days) results in suspension of service for a client (because even after we *ring* them ; tell them what's on their machine ; and the steps to follow to remove it - some still don't care). I can *definitely* say that if the results of a virus were, in general, more 'in your face' there would be much less apathy. Most times, we contact a client about a virus on their system, rather than the other way around. Regards, Saliya ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From brd@austarmetro.com.au Tue Oct 1 22:48:39 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:48:39 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Panelists consider the 'business case' for open-source Message-ID: <3D9A2647.626FB41A@austarmetro.com.au> Panelists consider the 'business case' for open-source BY STACY COWLEY 2 October, 2002 8:00 NEW YORK, U.S. http://www.computerworld.com.au/idg2.nsf/All/B0AA2A304B49D017CA256C4500764E26!OpenDocument&NavArea=Home&SelectedCategoryName=News Two years ago Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc. executive Robert Lefkowitz became intrigued with Linux and decided to install the open-source operating system on his PC at work. The company's higher powers took exception to that, and, invoking Merrill Lynch's policy against unauthorized software installations, confiscated the computer. It took Lefkowitz six weeks of explaining to reclaim his PC. He left Merrill Lynch soon after. But then, last year, Merrill Lynch's executives became intrigued themselves with the possibilities of open-source software -- and they recruited Lefkowitz to return to the firm as head of its open-source development. Lefkowitz joined executives from IBM Corp. and Red Hat Inc. Tuesday for a panel discussion on "The Business Case for Open Source Software," organized by Manhattan law firm Patterson, Belknap, Webb & Tyler LLP, whose practice includes work on intellectual property issues. Around two dozen attendees gathered for the discussion of how enterprises are using open-source products and the benefits and challenges those early adopters are encountering. No technology takes off until a killer app emerges, and for open-source software, that catalyst was Apache, said Scott Handy, IBM's director of worldwide Linux solutions marketing. The Apache open-source Web server offered users a free tool able to compete with expensive commercial alternatives, and by 1998 it had built up a double-digit market share and established itself on IBM's radar, Handy said. By 1999, IBM was treating Linux as a top-tier operating system and using open-source code as a foundation for some of its own commercial products, including its WebSphere Application Server. IBM's embrace of the open-source community -- and its much-publicized US$1 billion commitment to Linux -- was the spark that convinced companies such as Merrill Lynch to take a more serious look at the open-source movement, Lefkowitz said. Once they did, the advantages of running software not owned by any one vendor became clear, he said. "When you look at the Free Software Foundation's Web site, they have an explanation right on the page: 'Not free as in beer, free as in speech,' " Lefkowitz said. "We're not terribly interested -- from a business point of view -- in 'free as in speech,' but we don't think of 'free as in beer' as the best way to build a business either. We like to think of it as 'free as in market.' ""Free, as in market" means that when modifications or repairs are needed, an open-source software customer can solicit for competitive bids, where a commercial software customer would be forced to turn only to the software's creator. That's an attractive proposition for a business, Lefkowitz noted. Still, in the year Merrill Lynch has been working with open-source software, the savings it's seen have been on hardware costs, not software, he said. Replacing proprietary operating systems such as IBM's AIX or Sun Microsystems Inc.'s Solaris with Linux have let Merrill Lynch trade pricey hardware for cheaper alternatives, but the products Linux is replacing are generally software vendors bundled in for free with the hardware, and maintenance and development costs are fairly analogous, Lefkowitz said. Merrill Lynch is happy with the value it gets for the money it spends on hardware; where the company would like to drive down costs is on desktop software spending, Lefkowitz said. Toward that end, Merrill Lynch is beginning to evaluate desktop set-ups based on open-source software, with the eventual hope of running 20 percent of its desktop using open-source products. "Our primary reason to do that is our sense that the desktop market is not a free, competitive market. Prices are higher than they need to be," he said. Migrating 20 percent of supported desktop PCs would create a sufficient user base to show vendors Merrill Lynch has an alternative, he said. Merrill Lynch also plans to release as open source some of its own tools, once an under-development corporate policy becomes official. The company has decided that it will not create any new projects, but will contribute to the development of software it uses by releasing such items as documentation and benchmarking suites, Lefkowitz said. Several in the audience said they are evaluating open-source software for use at their companies; others said they came to the panel discussion to hear about what issues are on the minds of colleagues. Attendee Sergio Fanchiotti, a software engineer with Citibank, said he came out of curiosity about the current state of the industry. Fanchiotti has been working with open-source software for several years, and said one aspect of the movement he finds particularly intriguing is the dedicated hobbyists it attracts -- hobbyists who gain skills at home they can then use at work. "If you see that on someone's resume, that they've installed and administrated something, it shows you that there is some extra step, some extra drive," he said. "(Open-source) offers a way to train yourself, at home, not just on the job." -- The human mind treats a new idea the same way the body treats a strange protein; it rejects it. -- P. B. Medawar Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Oct 1 22:58:41 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:58:41 +1000 Subject: [LINK] article on viruses/pirate anti-virus software Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002085700.009dfd90@pop.primenet.com> Speaking of virus stuff....This is the Age this week: http://theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/01/1033283475122.html VERY extensive article, complete with definitions.... Running scared By Helen Dancer October 1 2002 Next In July, 2001, the appearance of the computer virus, Code Red, hinted that the world was on the brink of a new type of conflict: virus-driven government-against-government-inspired instability. Doomsayers such as the US National Security Council's Richard Clarke postulated that Code Red represented no less than an electronic Pearl Harbour. But the hijacked airliners that crashed in North America two months later changed all that, and, says virus and security expert Nick FitzGerald, blew the e-warfare doomsaying theories out of the water. [snip] JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Tue Oct 1 23:12:51 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:12:51 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? Message-ID: SMH 2 Oct 02, p.22 (Business Pages) Bye-bye meter-man "Electricity meter readers will be replaced with computer operators following an agreement between meter supplier Email Metering and Intermoco, which has developed an automated remote meter reading system. Intermoco's technology replaces the three-monthly meter reading with website scans every half hour". [Leave aside the likelihood that this isn't a news-item, but just a press release from a supplier, re-printed without investigation. Also leave aside previous link discussions about the Internet not yet being a viable tool for running national infrastructure] [What interests me is the confusion between the Internet and the Web. Am I imagining it, or has the last year seen an explosion in the use of various terms including the string 'web' when the expression 'the Internet' is appropriate? Have the gormless newbies infected the rest of us?] [The adoption-rate of that misnomer reminds me of the sudden mainstreaming of 'gotten' in Australia between about 4 and 2 years ago. Oz successfully resisted the word for 40 years after the arrival of TV in '56 - well, '64 where I lived - despite adopting successive TV-projected 'cultural' icons; and then suddenly the battle was over, and 2/3rds of the population use it] -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor, Uni of Hong Kong, Dept of Comp Sci and Info Sys Visiting Fellow, Australian National University, Dept of Comp Sci ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Oct 1 23:32:56 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:32:56 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDCD@EXCHANGE_AU> > The day that someone takes the source code for one of those benign > incarnations and makes it do something *very* nasty (e.g. install a > monitoring executable on the machine; or even simply format the HDD) > is the day that we will see 'end-users' start seriously considering > alternatives to bugware. Heh. Maybe I have too poor a view of my fellow-citizen ... but to date, every e-mail virus I've encountered has been an IQ test: "is this person going to open the e-mail?" Even though one of the Link members' messages still reminds me that Pine is a real emailer and Outlook is a virus spreader, I haven't been bit yet... Sal, there's enough users silly enough to still open infected messages, in spite of history. Are those same users smart enough to say "oh, a virus, maybe I should install a copy of Red Hat Linux 8 and compile my own kernel!"? Methinks not. I know that Linux "isn't hard", but that's not the point. Consumers don't think of themselves as buying an operating system - they think they're buying an appliance. Make a PC that really IS an appliance (including cheap), and they'll buy it. Richard Chirgwin > -----Original Message----- > From: Saliya Wimalaratne [mailto:saliya@hinet.net.au] > Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 08:50 > To: Mark Hughes > Cc: Link Institute > Subject: Re: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses > > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Mark Hughes wrote: > > > In fact, "you'll have lower costs if you don't use Windows" > appears to be > > having more effect on driving change than "you'll have > lower data loss if > > you don't use Windows". > > Of course, in general data loss -> financial loss -> higher costs. > > > And this leads me to wonder whether the threat of "viruses > may spread your > > private information around the web" may have more effect on > Users than > > "viruses may cause you to lose your data". > > A worthwhile proposition, IMO. > > The fact is that most of the *really scary* viruses (i.e. those that > automagically infect Windows systems), that we *know* about, > have been fairly > benign. Whether due to a coding fault, or to a > proof-of-concept intent, > they've really not done much damage to end-user systems. > > The day that someone takes the source code for one of those benign > incarnations and makes it do something *very* nasty (e.g. install a > monitoring executable on the machine; or even simply format the HDD) > is the day that we will see 'end-users' start seriously considering > alternatives to bugware. > > We scan for viruses on inbound/outbound emails - something > larger ISP's can't/won't do. About 10% of the 'outbound' > notifications we > get (this means that one of our customers has a virus/worm - > and in general, > these are few and far between these days) results in suspension of > service for a client (because even after we *ring* them ; > tell them what's > on their machine ; and the steps to follow to remove it - > some still don't > care). > > I can *definitely* say that if the results of a virus were, > in general, > more 'in your face' there would be much less apathy. Most > times, we contact > a client about a virus on their system, rather than the other > way around. > > Regards, > > Saliya > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Oct 1 23:56:10 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:56:10 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDCE@EXCHANGE_AU> ...and the SMH couldn't even stick to the press release. It's not a half-hourly Website scan. The >meter< transmits data back to "a secured website" every half hour. Richard C The Intermoco announcement: ..................................... The Board of Directors of Intermoco Limited ("Intermoco") is very pleased to announce that it has executed a significant Collaborative Agreement with Emwest Products Pty Ltd, trading as Email Metering ("Email"), the leading manufacturer of metering devices in Australia. Under this Agreement, the Company and Email will collaborate in the joint development of the most cost effective, integrated automated meter reading ("AMR") solution for the electricity industry seen to date. In addition, the companies will jointly market the AMR solution globally. Intermoco has developed a unique AMR solution, known as Utiligy, that includes an interface to the range of Email "smart" meters, and which is now being marketed in the Australian and international marketplaces. Email has developed a range of innovative "smart" metering products, which it manufactures in Australia and China and markets to over 35 countries around the world. Email currently has in excess of 60 percent share of the metering market in Australia and over 40 percent of the market in the United Kingdom through its local subsidiary, Ampy Digilogue Automation. Under the Agreement, Intermoco's Utiligy technology will be integrated with Email's proven, smart metering technology and marketed as a true end-to-end solution to electricity utilities around the world. A significant benefit is achieved for both companies in the formation of a joint engineering team which will work together on this technology integration. It is expected that this approach will reduce the development cost and timeframe, significantly lower total manufacturing costs and improve the efficiency of installation in the context of a widespread rollout of the solution. The technology package will be progressively available for release to the market during the course of the current financial year. Email's standing as a world leader in meter manufacturing and distribution, together with its capacity to market on a global scale, will significantly expand Intermoco's reach into international markets. Access to this important marketing and distribution resource is a major benefit to Intermoco at this time, as it will enable the Company to market its technology to global markets with the assistance of Email's local and international sales force. For a number of important reasons, electricity utilities are seeking more efficient and cost-effective methods of managing their metering tasks. Further, there is a growing demand from the general public for price reductions and for the provision of value added services. The introduction of Utiligy, coupled with Email's 80 years of proven meter design in this country and overseas and its recognised industry presence, creates a powerful synergy that will provide the foundation for further product enhancements and services by the companies in the world of automatic meter reading in the future. Utiligy is designed to extract data from an electricity meter at a business or household and transmit that data (in "real-time") to a secure customised website, controlled by the local utility, at half hourly intervals. The information, which historically has been gathered manually every two to three months, will now be available to the utilities via the Internet at any location. The vast data base of up-to-date information delivered by the Utiligy solution will provide the utilities with a far greater understanding of the status of their network and the real consumption patterns of their customers. In turn, this will enable the utilities to significantly improve the efficiency of their electricity purchasing and management of their businesses, resulting in substantial cost savings. Reduced energy consumption and lower energy costs to businesses and householders are just two of the potential benefits that will flow from the Intermoco technology solution. It will allow energy retailers to determine more accurately the peaks and troughs of energy demand and plan their supply requirements to reduce wastage and thus costs. This innovative new approach to meter reading will also enable households and businesses to review their levels of energy consumption and implement more effective energy usage patterns, thereby reducing their costs. As a result of the new technology and the savings it can achieve, energy suppliers can work together with businesses and the general public alike to develop innovative tariffs, which in turn will promote energy conservation. The Directors believe that the Intermoco Utiligy solution, incorporating Email electronic smart meters, the innovative product design and information technology developed by Intermoco, wireless GPRS communications provided by Telstra and the power and accessibility of the Internet create a very powerful and exciting automated meter reading solution. Email electronic smart meters have now been enhanced to accept pulses from other meters such as those used to read water and gas consumption which will open the way for the Utiligy system to be expanded to also cover the metering of these important everyday commodities. The introduction of this new technology solution coincides with the recent announcement by the Infrastructure Planning Council on Victorian Infrastructure, which proposed that all Victorian households should be fitted with smart metering systems by 2007. ........................................... > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Clarke [mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 09:13 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? > > > > SMH 2 Oct 02, p.22 (Business Pages) > > Bye-bye meter-man > > "Electricity meter readers will be replaced with computer operators > following an agreement between meter supplier Email Metering and > Intermoco, which has developed an automated remote meter reading > system. Intermoco's technology replaces the three-monthly meter > reading with website scans every half hour". > > [Leave aside the likelihood that this isn't a news-item, but just a > press release from a supplier, re-printed without investigation. > Also leave aside previous link discussions about the Internet not yet > being a viable tool for running national infrastructure] > > [What interests me is the confusion between the Internet and the Web. > Am I imagining it, or has the last year seen an explosion in the use > of various terms including the string 'web' when the expression 'the > Internet' is appropriate? Have the gormless newbies infected the > rest of us?] > > [The adoption-rate of that misnomer reminds me of the sudden > mainstreaming of 'gotten' in Australia between about 4 and 2 years > ago. Oz successfully resisted the word for 40 years after the > arrival of TV in '56 - well, '64 where I lived - despite adopting > successive TV-projected 'cultural' icons; and then suddenly the > battle was over, and 2/3rds of the population use it] > > -- > Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ > > Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA > Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 > mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ > > Visiting Professor, Uni of Hong Kong, Dept of Comp Sci and Info Sys > Visiting Fellow, Australian National University, Dept of Comp Sci > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Wed Oct 2 00:57:51 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:57:51 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021002105523.07db3150@pop> >[What interests me is the confusion between the Internet and the Web. Am I >imagining it, or has the last year seen an explosion in the use of various >terms including the string 'web' when the expression 'the Internet' is >appropriate? Have the gormless newbies infected the rest of us?] I'm more concerned about people who think a web address is: blahblah@domain.name.com Or the immediate expectation that .au is automatically attached to all addresses. The number of people we've had call the office saying they can't get to our web site and are using our e-mail address or the number trying to email our web address is incredible. I'm also trying hard to help a client understand that "the web" is NOT email, and email is not "the web" ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From grove@zeta.org.au Wed Oct 2 02:24:58 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:24:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002084043.02bc73c0@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 01:42 AM 2/10/02 +1000, you wrote: > >I'd be interested in reports from other Linkers on whether the "the biggest > >risk isn't losing your data - its having everyone else view it" line has a > >greater effect on User behaviour; if Linkers care to try it on Users they're > >working with. Most PC users I know couldn't care less abvout viruses or their data, until after the problems start and then they start complaining, worrying, begging...... > I think it's also worth commenting on embarrassment factor. I just had to > mention to a friend that more than likely her PC is infected with > Bugbear. I received four courtesy messages from Yahoo and others that a > message with my address attached had been sent and rejected. I have NAV, > so doubt very much if my system did it at all. And the giveaway was that > my friend: > > - uses Outlook - I don't and I screen out lots on my server before even > bringing messages in > - belongs to one of the Yahoo groups that sent the alert and I don't > - and is probably not updating her virus software regularly or properly, > mine is automatic I think the solution is simple. Get a UNIX shell account or have your own Linux/Sun or whatever and keep your email on that. I am currently using my mac to type this message, but it's actually logged into my Sun workstation and I'm using PINE. That way, no viruses or other rubbish infect my more vulnerable systems. I also have the luxury of filtering and storing all my email in bulk on my Sun. I know it is not for everyone, but a shell account with a simple email client is all you need and it is not that hard to learn! The solution for attachments is simple - you unpack them in your UNIX shell and decided whether they are worth exporting across to read by running "strings" on them. Jan, didn't you used to post from a shell account? rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From cas@taz.net.au Wed Oct 2 02:43:33 2002 From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:43:33 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Long-term Linux half the price of Windows In-Reply-To: References: <20021001145817.G5697@aurema.com> Message-ID: <20021002024333.GD4817@taz.net.au> On Tue, Oct 01, 2002 at 07:21:42PM +1000, Rachel Polanskis wrote: > Very good points, Chris. I also boggled when I saw the Solaris > comparisons. You also get what you pay for too. Linux on Intel > doesn't scale anywhere near as well as Solaris on SPARC. The Sun > processors may be more expensive, but you can run far many more Oracle > instances or Apache virtual servers on them then a similar Linux/Intel > system. They also have improved "lights out" management technology > that lowers admin costs further over a Linux system. can't say i agree with that. a single high-end sun box may support many more apache virtual servers than a single linux box but that single sun box costs orders of magnitude more than a good linux PC. e.g. for under $10,000 you can have a high-quality linux PC with dual processors and about 1GB of RAM, 500GB of fast RAID-5 hot-swappable disk, gigabit ethernet, redundant power supplies, etc. not quite as fault-tolerant as sun hardware but getting close......and, performance-wise, more than capable of handling 500 virtual hosts. a high-end sun box which could support thousands of virtual hosts costs several hundred thousand dollars. ok, now say the sun box costs (conservatively) $200,000 and supports 5000 vhosts. if it costs $10,000 for a linux box to support 500 vhosts, to support 5,000 vhosts on linux would cost (at most) $100,000. and that's if you buy standalone servers, rather than something more scalable (like, e.g., the blade servers - basically a PC on a card in a shared chassis, or a rack with one or more large linux file-servers and dozens of cheap, disposable front-end web-server boxes). for $100,000 i (or any competent linux sysadmin) could build a web server farm that would blow any sun box out of the water....for a fraction of the cost. not just for web servers, either - also mail server. or proxy server. or file server. or many other kinds of servers. while there are good reasons for running sun hardware, bang-per-buck isn't one of them. solaris isn't either (quite the opposite in fact....in an ISP environment, solaris doesn't even begin to compare with linux). IMO, the only really good reason is that sun hardware tends to be more reliable and better quality than even the best commodity PC hardware. as for solaris, the only good reason to run that is if you have an absolute requirement for a software package that only runs on solaris. there aren't that many of those around these days. most unix software vendors have bowed to the inevitable and are supporting linux these days. > Also, if you are serious about using Linux in an Enterprise situation, > you will not use low end hardware and will use RAID controllers, > gigabit ethernet and redundant power supplies and subsystems. Linux > can do all these things on the right hardware, but not as neatly as > Sun and the cost difference to do so is further eroded when you have > to shell out for the high end boxes. nope. even with "expensive" high-end, high-quality PC equipment, there is still a huge difference in hardware cost. craig -- craig sanders Fabricati Diem, PVNC. -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From saliya@hinet.net.au Wed Oct 2 03:49:28 2002 From: saliya@hinet.net.au (Saliya Wimalaratne) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 13:49:28 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDCD@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > > The day that someone takes the source code for one of those benign > > incarnations and makes it do something *very* nasty (e.g. install a > > monitoring executable on the machine; or even simply format the HDD) > > is the day that we will see 'end-users' start seriously considering > > alternatives to bugware. > > Heh. > > Maybe I have too poor a view of my fellow-citizen ... but to date, every > e-mail virus I've encountered has been an IQ test: "is this person going to > open the e-mail?" Even though one of the Link members' messages still > reminds me that Pine is a real emailer and Outlook is a virus spreader, I > haven't been bit yet... Hi Richard, http://www.malware.com/lookout.html shows how to infect someone's machine with the executable of your choice, even if all they do is *preview* your message (i.e. no opening excel spreadsheets, no executing attachments). http://www.ussrback.com/labs50.html shows an older exploit that can run without opening or previewing the message. A patch has been released for this issue by Microsoft. I've not personally tested either of these; but I don't recall any "this is hooey" responses to either of these advisories on Bugtraq. > Sal, there's enough users silly enough to still open infected messages, in > spite of history. Are those same users smart enough to say "oh, a virus, > maybe I should install a copy of Red Hat Linux 8 and compile my own > kernel!"? Suggesting that 'to use Linux, you must be able to compile a kernel' is a bit farfetched these days ;) But that's not specifically what I'm talking about: My original point was - to date, worms-of-mass-destruction that are aimed at the end user (e.g. loveyou, melissa) haven't really done much harm to people or their systems. So it's easier for them to 'download a fix' than it is to say 'how can I stop this from happening in the first place' ? When something comes along that *does* real harm - they'll be forced to re-evaluate. Re-evaluation could result in an OS switch ; or an email client switch ; or an antivirus software install ; or just plain nothing ;) The point is, that they're not even evaluating yet... and that they probably *won't* until something happens to force their hand. Regards, Saliya ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Wed Oct 2 04:08:22 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:08:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDD5@EXCHANGE_AU> Sal writes: >> http://www.malware.com/lookout.html shows how to infect >> someone's machine with the executable of your choice, >> even if all they do is *preview* your message Hate to correct you Sal, but here's what Malware says: >Silent delivery and installation of an executable on a target >computer. No client input other than opening an email or newsgroup ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >post or web site. There's a difference between "preview" and "open". I'll stick by what I said previously; e-mail viruses are IQ tests for users... I don't use Outlook at home - for this very reason, it's much easier to run something less vulnerable. And cheaper; I'm not ransomed to Symantec or Trend or CA etc. OK, since I was twice pinged, I agree that my remark about Linux compilation was hyperbolic. But: for the average consumer, even installing an OS is more work than they care for. Richard Chirgwin (The At-home e-mail policy is as follows: 1) Header-only is the default; 2) Check the message information for any unfamiliar sender; and 3) Delete at the server if unsure. It doesn't hurt at all to do this, and so far the home machine is infection-free.) RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Saliya Wimalaratne [mailto:saliya@hinet.net.au] > Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 13:49 > To: Chirgwin, Richard > Cc: Link Institute > Subject: RE: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses > > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > > > > The day that someone takes the source code for one of > those benign > > > incarnations and makes it do something *very* nasty (e.g. > install a > > > monitoring executable on the machine; or even simply > format the HDD) > > > is the day that we will see 'end-users' start seriously > considering > > > alternatives to bugware. > > > > Heh. > > > > Maybe I have too poor a view of my fellow-citizen ... but > to date, every > > e-mail virus I've encountered has been an IQ test: "is this > person going to > > open the e-mail?" Even though one of the Link members' > messages still > > reminds me that Pine is a real emailer and Outlook is a > virus spreader, I > > haven't been bit yet... > > Hi Richard, > > http://www.malware.com/lookout.html shows how to infect > someone's machine > with the executable of your choice, even if all they do is > *preview* your > message (i.e. no opening excel spreadsheets, no executing > attachments). > > http://www.ussrback.com/labs50.html shows an older exploit > that can run > without opening or previewing the message. A patch has been released > for this issue by Microsoft. > > I've not personally tested either of these; but I don't recall any > "this is hooey" responses to either of these advisories on Bugtraq. > > > Sal, there's enough users silly enough to still open > infected messages, in > > spite of history. Are those same users smart enough to say > "oh, a virus, > > maybe I should install a copy of Red Hat Linux 8 and compile my own > > kernel!"? > > Suggesting that 'to use Linux, you must be able to compile a > kernel' is > a bit farfetched these days ;) But that's not specifically > what I'm talking > about: > > My original point was - to date, worms-of-mass-destruction > that are aimed > at the end user (e.g. loveyou, melissa) haven't really done > much harm to > people or their systems. So it's easier for them to 'download > a fix' than > it is to say 'how can I stop this from happening in the first place' ? > > When something comes along that *does* real harm - they'll be > forced to > re-evaluate. > > Re-evaluation could result in an OS switch ; or an email > client switch ; > or an antivirus software install ; or just plain nothing ;) > > The point is, that they're not even evaluating yet... and > that they probably > *won't* until something happens to force their hand. > > Regards, > > Saliya > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From cas@taz.net.au Wed Oct 2 05:03:55 2002 From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:03:55 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDD5@EXCHANGE_AU> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDD5@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <20021002050355.GK4817@taz.net.au> On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 02:08:22PM +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > Sal writes: > >> http://www.malware.com/lookout.html shows how to infect someone's > >> machine with the executable of your choice, even if all they do is > >> *preview* your message > > Hate to correct you Sal, but here's what Malware says: > > >Silent delivery and installation of an executable on a target > >computer. No client input other than opening an email or newsgroup > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >post or web site. > > There's a difference between "preview" and "open". > > I'll stick by what I said previously; e-mail > viruses are IQ tests for users... you need to do a bit more research. there are some viruses/worms which don't need to be opened, preview is enough. there was one which exploited a bug in Subject: line handling, and another which exploited Date: headers (buffer overflow if >80 characters IIRC). there are others too, these are just two that i can recall off the top of my head. these are still active today even though the bugs are well known and patches are available (which implies idiocy or at least indifference or ignorance on the part of the user). the trouble with saying that ALL email viruses are IQ tests is that these weren't known bugs when they first occurred, and there are certainly more stupid bugs in outlook waiting to be exploited by script kiddies. > OK, since I was twice pinged, I agree that my remark about Linux > compilation was hyperbolic. But: for the average consumer, even > installing an OS is more work than they care for. yes, that's true - but it's true for all operating systems. most users can't install either windows or linux. personally, i see that as an argument against using windows because windows needs to be re-installed at least a couple of times per year (depending on how many stupid frivols you install like dancing sheep screensavers etc), whereas linux doesn't need to be reinstalled. craig -- craig sanders Fabricati Diem, PVNC. -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Oct 2 05:04:33 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:04:33 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Saliya Wimalaratne wrote: > My original point was - to date, worms-of-mass-destruction that are aimed > at the end user (e.g. loveyou, melissa) haven't really done much harm to > people or their systems. So it's easier for them to 'download a fix' than > it is to say 'how can I stop this from happening in the first place' ? > > When something comes along that *does* real harm - they'll be forced to > re-evaluate. > > Re-evaluation could result in an OS switch ; or an email client switch ; > or an antivirus software install ; or just plain nothing ;) > > The point is, that they're not even evaluating yet... and that they probably > *won't* until something happens to force their hand. Half the problem with viruses like Klez is they don't do any noticable harm to the infected machine, they are just a PITA to everyone else in the address book, so the "...just plain nothing" is the most likely scenario. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From kevin@ilanet.net.au Wed Oct 2 05:31:32 2002 From: kevin@ilanet.net.au (Kevin McKern) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:31:32 +1000 Subject: [LINK] elogon 50 Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment 1) THIS WEEK: Fifty and counting. 2) Free TimeBase Trial 3) Free Trial of Global Books in Print 4) Debating the future in Johannesburg 5) Law resources 6) Independent Media 7) Training Dates 8) Quick links 9) Up on the roof 10) John Nash - A Brilliant Madness 11) America one year on 12) ILANET-INFO 1)THIS WEEK: Fifty and counting. On April 6th 1998 we started sending our "logon" newsletter to members vi= a email and renamed it "elogon". Since then elogon has grown considerably, both in the size of the each issue and in the number of subscribers. To celebrate issue 50 of elogon, we are pleased to announce that in October ILANET will offer free trials to TimeBase and Global Books in Print. The TimeBase trial is now running. The Global Books in Print trial will begin shortly. Aside from letting you know what's happening at ILANET and documenting th= e changing online environment, we hope that elogon is also successful in th= e task of directing readers to challenging and interesting resources. By working with members in the years ahead ILANET will extend the range o= f information services available and, by doing so, celebrate and defend the values that make a free and open society possible. 2) TimeBase Trial In conjunction with ILANET, TimeBase is pleased to offer ILANET members a free trial to TimeBase legal research products. TimeBase is an Australian legal and tax publisher established in 1994 and TimeBase customers includ= e the top law firms, the ATO, ASIC and thousands of others. Members can access a trial of the TimeBase service from our Australian Databases Page. The TimeBase products available to trial include: The up-to-date full text legislation (with annotations) of seven jurisdictions: Commonwealth, New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia, Western Australia and Australian Capital Territory. The curren= cy is excellent as Commonwealth legislation is updated daily, NSW weekly and other jurisdictions as available. Unlike ScalePlus and AustLII, repealed legislation is also available. Full text High Court, Federal Court and Federal Magistrates Court cases f= rom 1901 are also available (with citations and individual page references to the Commonwealth Law Reports, Federal Court Reports and Australian Law Reports as well as the court paragraph numbers.)=20 Products that allow you to research the law as of a specific date for the subject areas of Corporations, GST and Income Tax will also be available.= In addition to the full-text of all relevant legislation, these three produc= ts include commentary, Bills and Explanatory Memoranda, full-text cases and more. You can find out more about TimeBase products by visiting: http://www.timebase.com.au/products/ TimeBase has been recognised for the development of an award winning XML technology called MALT (Multi Access Layer Technology). MALT is the engin= e behind the very fast access to data at the TimeBase site and an overview = of this highly regarded patented technology can be seen at: http://www.malt.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=3Dabout. www.timebase.com.au 3) Free Trial of Global Books in Print A free trial of Bowker's "Global Books in Print" will be available to ILA= NET members from early in October 2002, members will be advised by email as s= oon as the date is set. Globalbooksinprint.com is a very effective way for information profession= als to find the exact titles they need, check citations and latest prices and= to discover what editions are available in what format.=20 Globalbooksinprint.com offers: a) Access to Bowker's Books In Print=AE database of over 4 million titles= that are available in the U.S. & Canada, Book Data's British Books In Print=AE database of over 1 million titles available in the U.K., and Thorpe's ANZ database of over half a million titles available in Australia and New Zealand. b) Superior searching capabilities and several search modes. c) Access to Bowker's Publishers Authority Database, a comprehensive database of over 165,000 publishers, distributors, wholesalers and book agents. d) An easy way to download, e-mail and print title information combined w= ith the ability to check stock availability with various worldwide wholesalers/suppliers combined with tools to check publishers discount schedules, return policies and special offers. You can preview the Global Books in Print interface at: http://www.globalbooksinprint.com/GlobalBooksInPrint/ The core features of this excellent resource are now available to ILANET members free of charge. The full Global Books in Print Product has extended functionality that includes advanced list building and other features. However, in order to make this service available for ILANET members, some of this advanced functionality has necessarily been disabled. The service can now be accessed from our International Databases Page and= we hope members will take advantage of this opportunity to trial the service. We would welcome your feedback, especially if you would like to see this service added to the ilanetweb suite, so please send your comments to ilanet@ilanet.net.au 4) Debating the future at Johannesburg The UN World Summit on Sustainable Development was a major international environmental conference that featured a host of non-governmental organizations, heads of state and other national representatives. The following links provide information about the summit. http://www.johannesburgsummit.org/ http://www.worldwire.org/fullcoverage.asp?FCTopicID=3DEarth+Summit http://www.greeningthewssd.com/ 5) Law resources LLRX.com is a Web journal dedicated to providing legal and library professionals with the most up-to-date information on a wide range of Internet research and technology-related issues, applications, resources = and tools. The LLRX.com site functionality has recently been extended with th= e addition of an effective search interface that can be found at: http://www.llrx.com/search.html LLRx have an article about researching Australian Law that, while written= in 2000, is still an excellent introduction. http://www.llrx.com/features/australian.htm CataLaw is a catalogue of worldwide law on the Internet. http://www.catalaw.com/ Judging by the CataLaw Australian Law page this effort has been reasonabl= y successful: http://www.catalaw.com/region/Australia.shtml This new site for NSW legislation was developed by the Parliamentary Counsel's Office. http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au ACT laws and statutes are available from; http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/a/default.asp lexisONE is designed to meet the demands of small-firms and the service carries some free resources,including case law, legal news, and an Legal = Web Site Directory. If you wish to examine the content you can use the user i= d ilanetweb and the password member. http://www.lexisone.com/ The full text of all the laws of New Zealand can now be viewed for free o= n the Internet. Visitors can navigate through Acts of Parliament and statut= ory regulations and the site also provides access to recent Court of Appeal judgments.=20 www.legislation.govt.nz Legislation from the Australian Capital Territory, the Northern Territory and South Australia is now available from the following site. http://law.gov.au/st_legislation.html 6)Independent Media AlterNet.org is a project of the Independent Media Institute, a nonprofit organization dedicated to strengthening and supporting independent and alternative journalism. http://www.alternet.org/index.html This is the local portal for the grass roots independent media organisati= on. http://sydney.indymedia.org/ ZNet offers this Global Economics Crisis site as a source for understandi= ng global economics and trade issues. http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/Globalism/GlobalEcon.htm 7)Training Still available ILANET offers an Introductory Course and an Advanced Database Training Course. We still have vacancies for our Introductory Course on the 18th a= nd 29th of October as well as the 18th November. Please contact the support desk if you are interested = in attending training. 8) Quick links >From the American Library Association comes this "Tool Kit for the Expert Web Searcher". http://www.lita.org/committe/toptech/toolkit.htm Learn.co.uk is an educational website that has a simple mission: to suppo= rt, stimulate and succeed. This excellent resource was developed by the Guardian. If you do not wish to register you can use the User Name ilanet= web and the password member. http://www.learn.co.uk/default.asp? A partnership between New Zealand Public Libraries and Datacom has create= d a portal that will provide access to Public Library resources from across t= he country. www.libraries.org.nz You can search the British Education Index for free and receive the resul= ts for twenty documents from: http://brs.leeds.ac.uk/~beiwww/beil.html Newswise maintains a comprehensive database of news releases from top institutions engaged in scientific, medical, liberal arts and business research. The friendly interface allows you to search, browse or download any article or abstract. http://www.newswise.com/ There is something exciting about a jet engine that operates at MACH 5 an= d contains no moving parts. Hypersonic aerodynamics has been a major resear= ch activity at The University of Queensland and you can learn all about the recently sucessfull HYSHOT test here: http://www.mech.uq.edu.au/hyper/hyshot/ Philippa Uwins, a geologist studying sandstone core examples from an oil exploration project off the West Australian coast made a discovery back i= n 1996 that is now exciting the scientific community. Phillippa may have discovered a whole new type of life form. http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/nanobes/nanoimages.html A new Health Librarian and Information Professional Portal: http://www.nelh.nhs.uk/librarian/ Free Range Librarian is a "A Monthly Meditation" from the Librarians' Ind= ex to the Internet, you can read issue one at: http://lii.org/FRL By now we have all seen reports of the flood disasters in Europe. The Uni= ted Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization reports on the damages the floods have caused to European libraries and archives: http://www.unesco.org/webworld/floods_europe The science search engine Scirus index now contains an extra 107 million science specific pages, with new full-text additions like NASA reports, CogPrints pre- and postprints, and preprints from the Chemistry and Mathematics Preprint Servers. According to the press release, Scirus now offers over 17 million proprietary records that cannot be found using generic search engines. Scirus also now includes a news feed with the lat= est science headlines provided by the Lexis Nexis Web Publisher News Database. http://www.scirus.com Effective 26 September 2002, each complete weekly issue of ScienceWeek is available for free access at the website. http://www.scienceweek.com 9)Up on the roof Over the years the relative importance of manned versus unmanned space exploration has been hotly debated as many science missions have been sacrificed to meet cost overruns in the manned space program. However, th= ere is no doubt that manned spaceflight has its own fascination. The logs of the International Space Station Expedition One crew can be fo= und at: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/crew/exp1/ex1logs.html Problems with the space shuttle and the International Space Station have "knocked NASA off its moorings" according to Scientific American. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=3D00063921-6ED7-1CEE-93F6809EC= 58800 00 Go to this site for critiques of the American space agency. http://www.nasawatch.com/ Encylopedia Astronautica features "the only complete single reference sou= rce for all launches to orbit; all spacecraft orbited; all astronauts and cosmonauts that flew in space or entered training; all launch vehicles us= ed for orbital flights; and data on many projects, spacecraft and launch vehicle designs that were proposed or cancelled before development was complete".=20 http://www.astronautix.com/spaceflt.htm =20 10) John Nash - A Brilliant Madness At the age of 30, John Nash, a stunningly original and famously eccentric MIT mathematician, suddenly began claiming that aliens were communicating with him. His life was portrayed by Russell Crowe in the film "A Beautiful Mind." Transcripts of the documentary, A Brilliant Madness can be found at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/nash/ Biographical comments supplied by John Nash for the Nobel committee can b= e read at; http://www.nobel.se/economics/laureates/1994/nash-autobio.html 11)America one year on The US is thought to be preparing for a war in Iraq, after moving its Gul= f headquarters from Saudi Arabia to Qatar. Meanwhile in Afghanistan, the wa= r against al-Qaida and Taliban fighters continues. Here is some quality journalism from the Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/weblog/special/0,10627,674990,00.html The recent white paper by the Blair government can be found at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/uk_dossier_on_iraq= /ht ml/full_dossier.stm Video tapes found in Afghanistan contain insights into the thinking of th= ose behind the attacks of September last. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/terror.tapes/index.html An archive dedicated to saving Web sites as they appeared around the time= of the September 11 attacks: http://september11.archive.org/ An archive that collects photographs and digital images as well as e-mail= s and chat room conversations of thesame day.=20 http://911digitalarchive.org/ A Selection of New Additions to the September 11 archive. http://lii.org/911 12) ILANET INFO ilanetweb is a unique subscription based portal that gives members pay-as-you-go-access to a comprehensive suite of information sources and tools to help the information professional. Information Request Management Tools: A free ILL system for managing outgoing requests. Automated ILRS lookup. Resource Locator. Database Services: ABR (Australian Business Research) Informit Online (RMIT Publishing's Onl= ine Database Suite), Kinetica, News Store (Fairfax publications full text), NewsText (News Ltd Publications -full text inc. NZ), DataStar (web and Classic),Dialog (Classic, Classic Web,Select and Dialog1 ), EINS, Lexis-Nexis, OCLC FirstSearch, OVID Web, ProQuest & TradStat Web. Document Delivery Servces: CISTI and Infotrieve. You can sign up for a free trial of the service (please note our terms an= d conditions) at: http://www.ilanet.net.au/guest.cfm?goto=3D/FREE/t2.cfm Training is available in the use of ilanetweb, for more information see: http://www.ilanet.net.au/member/?goto=3D/member/training.cfm Back issues of elogon can be found at www.ilanet.net.au/elogon We are sending you elogon because you are an ilanetweb customer, or you subscribed to it from the email address where it was received. Want to add, remove or change your email address? http://www.ilanet.net.au/news/majordomo.commands.shtml Membership of ilanetweb entitles you to advice and technical support from your ILANET HelpDesk which can be reached by email, phone or fax. If you have any questions, suggestions, or comments, please send us a message:support@ilanet.net.au ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 13095 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/bc9a603d/winmail.dat ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From saliya@hinet.net.au Wed Oct 2 05:43:37 2002 From: saliya@hinet.net.au (Saliya Wimalaratne) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:43:37 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDD5@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > Sal writes: > >> http://www.malware.com/lookout.html shows how to infect > >> someone's machine with the executable of your choice, > >> even if all they do is *preview* your message > > Hate to correct you Sal, but here's what Malware says: > >Silent delivery and installation of an executable on a target > >computer. No client input other than opening an email or newsgroup > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >post or web site. > > There's a difference between "preview" and "open". Hi Richard, Fair enough - you're talking about the "preview" vs "download" distinction ? Distinction noted :) For most people (download all; then preview by clicking) this distinction doesn't exist - because the restrictions that are *supposed* to apply to the Preview Pane do not apply in all cases. > > I'll stick by what I said previously; e-mail viruses are IQ tests for > users... > :) You don't want someone to *test* this theory, do you ? :) :) > I don't use Outlook at home - for this very reason, it's much easier to run > something less vulnerable. And cheaper; I'm not ransomed to Symantec or > Trend or CA etc. Bingo - you evaluated, and made a decision. Most people aren't in that state yet (they're not evaluating alternatives). Which is what I was talking about... > (The At-home e-mail policy is as follows: > 1) Header-only is the default; > 2) Check the message information for any unfamiliar sender; and > 3) Delete at the server if unsure. Note that most email malware is now semi-intelligent - so this is a very serious trust relationship to be embarking on if you use LookOut. Reason being: if your dad/spouse/sysadmin gets infected and the worm pretends to be from them - to you, it looks legit. Of course, once downloaded, *then* you know. But if you're using Outlook - it could be too late :) :) Regards, Saliya ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From effectivebusiness@pplications.com.au Wed Oct 2 07:19:42 2002 From: effectivebusiness@pplications.com.au (Mark Hughes) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 17:19:42 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Howard, > My experience is that the vast majority of users > really don't have a clue about their computers. I agree completely. I never claimed that most users have a clue about their computers. What I said was that I believe most users are aware that viruses exist, and have some understanding that a virus could cause real problems to their systems. What's significant is that users are exposed to quite a lot of stories / discussions about virueses, but this appears to have no effect on their actions. The fact that they might lose their data clearly hasn't caused them to change their actions and become more clueful (is that a word? :) about their computers. A commonly expressed view is that sooner or later people / businesses will change their actions based on this threat of major systems problems due to viruses. But viruses have been with us for quite a long time. If the "you might lose your data" threat was going to make people change their actions, I reckon it would have done so by now - I'm starting to think that if it hasn't done so by now, it never will. Hence my speculations on what sort of threat from a virus would make people change their actions. Regards, Mark Mark Hughes Effective Business Applications Pty Ltd +61 4 1374 3959 www.pplications.com.au effectivebusiness@pplications.com.au -----Original Message----- From: Howard Lowndes [mailto:lannet@lannet.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 6:46 AM To: Mark Hughes Cc: Link Institute Subject: Re: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Mark Hughes wrote: > Hello Linkers, > > Many computer viruses don't do significant damage to systems they infect. > But some do. I believe this is reasonably well understood by a significant > proportion of Users who aren't IT professionals. I cannot agree here. My experience is that the vast majority of users really don't have a clue about their computers. I'm not only referring to the casual domestic user here, but also to the regular business user, perhaps more so the latter. If you ask most office workers what opsys is running on their computer that they use 9 to 5, my money says that most couldn't even name the opsys. The media hype about viruses has made most ppl scared to use computers and has conditioned them to accept regular reboots, re-installs, virus corruptions as standard procedure. Once a user has a PC in front of them they very rarely upgrade any of it until they replace it; in the larger organisations this is part of the IT function admittedly. The usual response I get from users who have copped a virus is "It suddenly started acting funny, I haven't done anything" -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Wed Oct 2 02:54:22 2002 From: tom.worthington@tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:54:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Office of the e-Envoy releases revised Channels Strategy In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021002082525.02bece70@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002122726.02477ec0@tomw.net.au> At 08:25 2/10/02, Jan Whitaker wrote: >from the UK... As with a previous initiative the e-Envoy is saying one thing and doing another. In this case the e-Envoy advocates delivery of content to users via mobile phones, PDA's and digital television, but hasn't bothered to format the document this is said in so it can be easily read on a conventional PC, let alone anything more exotic. The Channels Strategy is provided as a 490 KB PDF file and doesn't seem to have the reflow option enabled so I could read it easily on my PC screen. Had the document been provided as a web page meeting accessibility guidelines, it would be more readable on a normal screen and reasonably usable on a PDA, TV screen or a mobile telephone with a big-ish screen . Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150 Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309 http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617 ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dassa@dhs.org Wed Oct 2 11:30:54 2002 From: dassa@dhs.org (Dassa) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 21:30:54 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDCD@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <041e01c26a07$2db3ab20$0200a8c0@dassa> |> -----Original Message----- |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Chirgwin, Richard |> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:33 AM |> To: Link Institute |> Subject: RE: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses |> |> Sal, there's enough users silly enough to still open |> infected messages, in spite of history. Are those same users |> smart enough to say "oh, a virus, maybe I should install a |> copy of Red Hat Linux 8 and compile my own kernel!"? |> |> Methinks not. I know that Linux "isn't hard", but that's not |> the point. Consumers don't think of themselves as buying an |> operating system - they think they're buying an appliance. |> Make a PC that really IS an appliance (including cheap), and |> they'll buy it. There are viruses and exploits out there for the unix and other systems also. Don't you think that when all systems are "dumbed" down enough for mass distribution for all users that there will just be a shift in targets and the same old same old will continue? Darryl (Dassa) Lynch ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From stephen@melbpc.org.au Wed Oct 2 12:55:02 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 22:55:02 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, At 09:12 AM 2/10/2002, Roger Clarke wrote: > [What interests me is the confusion between the Internet and the > Web. Am I imagining it, or has the last year seen an explosion in > the use of various terms including the string 'web' when the > expression 'the Internet' is appropriate?..] Agreed. Even the Commonwealth Department of Education, Science and Training would appear to be favouring 'web' strings. For example: Regarding the Internet delivery of Australian University course units ... in the Overview section of the Commonwealth Department of Education, Science and Training's (DEST) “Higher Education Report for the 2002 to 2004 Triennium” the authors make note that .. "While growth in infrastructure is evident, the nature of the growth in online delivery is not clear. [But] preliminary data from a recent survey of Australian universities by the Department, suggests that the number of fully online courses is still relatively small, at 207, but that about 54% of the 63,468 undergraduate units and 30,378 postgraduate units offered at Australian universities are web-supported." (http://www.dest.gov.au/highered/he_report/2002_2004/html/1_2.htm) Cheers, Roger Stephen Loosley Melbourne, Australia ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From OetzelNicotera@altavista.com Wed Oct 2 10:49:18 2002 From: OetzelNicotera@altavista.com (Oetzel Nicotera) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:49:18 -0400 Subject: [LINK] Qualify for more (pmHUnl7Kl) Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/0cd0e73b/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From josh@email.nu Wed Oct 2 14:22:38 2002 From: josh@email.nu (Josh Rowe) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:22:38 +1000 Subject: [LINK] unallocated generic com.au domain names LIVE UPDATE Message-ID: <002d01c26a1f$29612d00$0479000a@ONE> At 11:00am on Thursday 3 October 2002, 1342 unallocated generic domain names will become available for registration. I have developed a web site which will provide LIVE UPDATES starting at 10:00am and at 5 minute intervals afterwards: http://www.whatsinaname.com.au/generic/ The service uses AusRegistry's unrestricted whois based domain availability check: http://www.ausregistry.com.au/domains/domavailable.html Currently all of the 1342 domains appear as "Not Available" (reserved by auDA) At 11:00am the 1342 domains should appear as "Available", and as the generic names are registered they will move to "Not Available". Clicking on a registered name's hyperlink in the "Not Available" section will take you to the WHOIS record for that particular name. See also: auDA publishes list of unallocated com.au 'generic' names http://www.auda.org.au/about/news/2002100102.html List of Unallocated Generic Names http://www.auda.org.au/about/generics.html Josh -- http://josh.id.au/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From stephen@melbpc.org.au Wed Oct 2 15:18:28 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 01:18:28 +1000 Subject: [LINK] MIT Online Course Pilot Message-ID: Hi all .. Beginning yesterday, MIT will make all of their courses available online, and is offering free public access. Here are the pilot courses available thus far ... (http://ocw.mit.edu/global/all-courses.html) "With the opening of the pilot site of MIT OpenCourseWare on Monday, Sept. 30, the ambitious initiative took the first step toward fulfilling the lofty expectations it prompted when it was announced on Sep 30th, 2000." (http://web.mit.edu/news.html) "We hope the idea of openly sharing course materials will propagate throughout many institutions and create a global web of knowledge that will enhance the quality of learning and, therefore, the quality of life worldwide. We are opening our pilot to the public for review and feedback. It contains a sample of MIT courses, offering an early look at the content and design of OCW. As we pursue our intensive work to find the most effective way to make OCW a valuable resource for all who use it, we will continue to add courses, until virtually all are available." For more information .. (http://ocw.mit.edu/global/faq.html) (http://ocw.mit.edu/global/about-ocw.html) Cheers all .. Stephen Loosley Melbourne, Australia ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mizunk00@earthlink.net Wed Oct 2 23:40:16 2002 From: mizunk00@earthlink.net (mizunk00@earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:40:16 -0400 Subject: [LINK] Free Sex On The Web - ITS FREE! Message-ID: <035e31a47c4c$5357a1e3$2ab22bd5@drscab> Free Sex On The Web The Original Absolutely Free Adult Supersite! ITS FREE!!........... what do you have to lose? ALL IT TAKES IS YOU TO TYPE IN YOUR EMAIL! CLICK HERE-----> http://ww.dirtytraffic.com/myfree/sawyer.html <-----CLICK HERE 4914UYDH9-332pdfr418l19 ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au Wed Oct 2 16:34:55 2002 From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 02:34:55 +1000 Subject: [LINK] MIT Online Course Pilot Message-ID: <200210021635.g92GZ0I8016307@anu.edu.au> From: Stephen Loosley (3/10/02 1:18 AM) >Beginning yesterday, MIT will make all of their courses >available online, and is offering free public access. in other news... >MIT coup for Australia >AUSTRALIA has been earmarked for a campus of the prestigious >Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Media >Laboratory. >http://email.ni.com.au/Click?q=7b-prt_IBZ0w9kwmX8bDl9q2O1D e. ______________________________________________________________________ eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s information architect http://www.ironclad.net.au/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Oct 2 20:32:53 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:32:53 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <041e01c26a07$2db3ab20$0200a8c0@dassa> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Dassa wrote: > |> -----Original Message----- > |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au > |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Chirgwin, Richard > |> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:33 AM > |> To: Link Institute > |> Subject: RE: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses > |> > > |> Sal, there's enough users silly enough to still open > |> infected messages, in spite of history. Are those same users > |> smart enough to say "oh, a virus, maybe I should install a > |> copy of Red Hat Linux 8 and compile my own kernel!"? > |> > |> Methinks not. I know that Linux "isn't hard", but that's not > |> the point. Consumers don't think of themselves as buying an > |> operating system - they think they're buying an appliance. > |> Make a PC that really IS an appliance (including cheap), and > |> they'll buy it. > > There are viruses and exploits out there for the unix and other systems > also. Don't you think that when all systems are "dumbed" down enough > for mass distribution for all users that there will just be a shift in > targets and the same old same old will continue? This is too true. If you have an opsys that has superuser capabilities, then users will run it as superuser. After all, running *nix as just an ordinary user can be a pain, "I know what I am doing" - famous last words. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Wed Oct 2 21:41:44 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 07:41:44 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDDF@EXCHANGE_AU> Ahh! I really hate it when I argue with somebody at cross purposes, sorry! OK: so what most people need on the home e-mail is to set their defaults so as to fetch headers only, and download messages when they've decided to open them. The reason I wasn't thinking about the distinction, I guess, is that this has been my habit forever. The reason I don't use Outlook at home, originally, was that I resented paying for it, even in a bundle. So I use free e-mailers and tend towards text-only. No viruses is just a happy consequence of long habit.. An interesting thing about the Bugbear virus (having seen it four times in a couple of days) is that I've NO idea who the message came from, or how I ended up in their address book! RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Saliya Wimalaratne [mailto:saliya@hinet.net.au] > Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 15:44 > To: Chirgwin, Richard > Cc: Link Institute > Subject: RE: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses > > > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > > > Sal writes: > > >> http://www.malware.com/lookout.html shows how to infect > > >> someone's machine with the executable of your choice, > > >> even if all they do is *preview* your message > > > > Hate to correct you Sal, but here's what Malware says: > > >Silent delivery and installation of an executable on a target > > >computer. No client input other than opening an email or newsgroup > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >post or web site. > > > > There's a difference between "preview" and "open". > > Hi Richard, > > Fair enough - you're talking about the "preview" vs > "download" distinction ? > Distinction noted :) For most people (download all; then > preview by clicking) > this distinction doesn't exist - because the restrictions > that are *supposed* > to apply to the Preview Pane do not apply in all cases. > > > > > I'll stick by what I said previously; e-mail viruses are IQ > tests for > > users... > > > > :) You don't want someone to *test* this theory, do you ? :) :) > > > I don't use Outlook at home - for this very reason, it's > much easier to run > > something less vulnerable. And cheaper; I'm not ransomed to > Symantec or > > Trend or CA etc. > > Bingo - you evaluated, and made a decision. Most people aren't in that > state yet (they're not evaluating alternatives). Which is what I > was talking about... > > > (The At-home e-mail policy is as follows: > > 1) Header-only is the default; > > 2) Check the message information for any unfamiliar sender; and > > 3) Delete at the server if unsure. > > Note that most email malware is now semi-intelligent - so this is a > very serious trust relationship to be embarking on if you use LookOut. > > Reason being: if your dad/spouse/sysadmin gets infected and the worm > pretends to be from them - to you, it looks legit. Of course, once > downloaded, *then* you know. But if you're using Outlook - it > could be > too late :) :) > > Regards, > > Saliya > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Wed Oct 2 21:51:48 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 07:51:48 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDE0@EXCHANGE_AU> > There are viruses and exploits out there for the unix and > other systems > also. Don't you think that when all systems are "dumbed" down enough > for mass distribution for all users that there will just be a shift in > targets and the same old same old will continue? Dassa, I'm not so sure. It's not the dumbing-down (which I believe can be a good thing), it's the 'features' that permit viruses. The features are not a "neccessary" or inevitable outcome of the dumbing down. For eg: why would a "dumbed down" Linux e-mailer include, as a "must have" feature, the ability to run executable files with no user permission from received e-mails? The feature that permits (say) Bugbear isn't about dumbing-down Outlook: it's about including a feature which is out of the reach of the average user; and because the user doesn't touch the vulnerable controls (Richard never tries to program Outlook), the user doesn't realise there's a vulnerability. So it's putting sophistication in the wrong place that creates the problem, not ease-of-use. RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Dassa [mailto:dassa@dhs.org] > Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 21:31 > To: 'Link Institute' > Subject: RE: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses > > > |> -----Original Message----- > |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au > |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Chirgwin, Richard > |> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:33 AM > |> To: Link Institute > |> Subject: RE: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses > |> > > |> Sal, there's enough users silly enough to still open > |> infected messages, in spite of history. Are those same users > |> smart enough to say "oh, a virus, maybe I should install a > |> copy of Red Hat Linux 8 and compile my own kernel!"? > |> > |> Methinks not. I know that Linux "isn't hard", but that's not > |> the point. Consumers don't think of themselves as buying an > |> operating system - they think they're buying an appliance. > |> Make a PC that really IS an appliance (including cheap), and > |> they'll buy it. > > There are viruses and exploits out there for the unix and > other systems > also. Don't you think that when all systems are "dumbed" down enough > for mass distribution for all users that there will just be a shift in > targets and the same old same old will continue? > > Darryl (Dassa) Lynch > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Wed Oct 2 20:55:01 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 06:55:01 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDD5@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003065302.02cbbbc0@pop.primenet.com> At 03:43 PM 2/10/02 +1000, Saliya Wimalaratne wrote: >Reason being: if your dad/spouse/sysadmin gets infected and the worm >pretends to be from them - to you, it looks legit. Of course, once >downloaded, *then* you know. But if you're using Outlook - it could be >too late :) :) I'll vouch for this. I just received an infected message from a site that I would have trusted implicitly, but it was still infected. Now the question is about: does Bugbear fake its originator, and if it does, do I tell the originator of this infected message considering that it may not have been from them at all? Peter CHEN: heads up, it's not you, but your organisation announcement :( Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Wed Oct 2 21:40:50 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:40:50 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003073845.0241e020@pop.primenet.com> And the key here is UNIVERSITY. Web-supported seems to be common even in the most traditional unis, e.g. Melbourne. But TAFE/VET is going gang-busters with online course delivery. Probably fits with their long history of external student support approaches. My guess is it probably varies among the uni group as well. Some like SQ and CSturt and probably Deakin [not sure] are well advanced in online delivery. Jan At 10:55 PM 2/10/02 +1000, Stephen Loosley wrote: >Regarding the Internet delivery of Australian University course units ... >in the Overview section of the Commonwealth Department of Education, >Science and Training's (DEST) "Higher Education Report for the 2002 to >2004 Triennium" the authors make note that .. > >"While growth in infrastructure is evident, the nature of the growth in >online delivery is not clear. [But] preliminary data from a recent survey >of Australian universities by the Department, suggests that the number >of fully online courses is still relatively small, at 207, but that about 54% >of the 63,468 undergraduate units and 30,378 postgraduate units offered >at Australian universities are web-supported." JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Wed Oct 2 22:13:47 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:13:47 +1000 Subject: [LINK] MIT Online Course Pilot Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDE4@EXCHANGE_AU> Eric, I'm interested/fascinated by the MIT story. Questions that could be worth asking: a) What's MIT's policy re ownership of inventions? Do they revert to MIT? Are they held by the inventor? Split between local facilities and head office? b) "What's in it for them"? (Cynical, I know, but still...) c) The MIT facility in Ireland doesn't seem to own any patents yet - is that because it's too young? - or because research outside the US is subordinate - ie, "you get this piece of the project, but head office is in charge)? d) The Indian MIT project seems to be running late - since it holds Indian government money, it might be nice to know why. Just thoughts ... because we wouldn't want an overseas project getting a free ride just because of cultural cringe... .gov.au and .edu.au should make sure we get value out of it, not just a brand and some press releases. RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Scheid [mailto:eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au] > Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 02:35 > To: Link List > Subject: Re: [LINK] MIT Online Course Pilot > > > From: Stephen Loosley (3/10/02 1:18 AM) > > >Beginning yesterday, MIT will make all of their courses > >available online, and is offering free public access. > > in other news... > > >MIT coup for Australia > >AUSTRALIA has been earmarked for a campus of the prestigious > >Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Media > >Laboratory. > >http://email.ni.com.au/Click?q=7b-prt_IBZ0w9kwmX8bDl9q2O1D > > e. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s > information architect http://www.ironclad.net.au/ > > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Wed Oct 2 22:22:48 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:22:48 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003081956.02129660@pop.primenet.com> Have any other linkers noticed an increase in unavailable websites? Just now I've been trying to do a bpay and the westpac site stopped responding. Then to see if it was just them, I tried ABC.net.au/news - also not responding. Then I tried another .au site and it came up just fine, as did a US based .com site. I've even closed and reopened the browser to be sure it wasn't hung up. I'm just curious if there is something going on with network connections to some of the main big sites in Australia. BTW, I'm using a MelbPCUG connection. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jmorris@intercode.com.au Wed Oct 2 22:58:33 2002 From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:58:33 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDDF@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > An interesting thing about the Bugbear virus (having seen it four times in a > couple of days) is that I've NO idea who the message came from, or how I > ended up in their address book! Well, you might be able to get a bit of an idea from the mail headers. - James -- James Morris ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Wed Oct 2 23:43:33 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:43:33 +1000 Subject: [LINK] unallocated generic com.au domain names LIVE UPDATE References: <002d01c26a1f$29612d00$0479000a@ONE> Message-ID: <3D9B84A5.3D6D24DB@praxis.com.au> Josh Rowe wrote: > At 11:00am on Thursday 3 October 2002, 1342 unallocated generic domain > names will become available for registration. > > I have developed a web site which will provide LIVE UPDATES starting at > 10:00am and at 5 minute intervals afterwards: > > http://www.whatsinaname.com.au/generic/ I had a preview peek, and the page shows that all generic names have already been taken, if I am not mistaken. The pages says: 0 Available 1342 Not Available Or ... will the 1342 names become available as of 11:00 this morning? cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Wed Oct 2 23:47:40 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:47:40 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003081956.02129660@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021003094606.05fa8540@pop> At 08:22 3/10/02 +1000, Jan Whitaker wrote: >Have any other linkers noticed an increase in unavailable websites? Just >now I've been trying to do a bpay and the westpac site stopped >responding. Then to see if it was just them, I tried ABC.net.au/news - >also not responding. Then I tried another .au site and it came up just >fine, as did a US based .com site. I've even closed and reopened the >browser to be sure it wasn't hung up. > >I'm just curious if there is something going on with network connections >to some of the main big sites in Australia. Have you tried tracing to the servers using traceroute from your PC or a web based traceroute? It's not uncommon for a major ingress point to fail for a few minutes (or days in one recent case) that takes a lot of primary routing out. I use to have a list of who was connected to where but it changes so much these days it was impossible to keep up to date. Maybe I'll write a tracer that logs paths and we can then monitor the connection points :) Map the Aussie Internet :) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Wed Oct 2 23:49:17 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:49:17 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDDF@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > > An interesting thing about the Bugbear virus (having seen it four times in a > couple of days) is that I've NO idea who the message came from, or how I > ended up in their address book! I think that is because it does a Klez. The common thread is that the apparent From: and you, are both in a common, unknown, address book somewhere. It does help to keep the virus alive because the infected machines probably don't know they are infected, at least in the early stages. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From S.Hinton@latrobe.edu.au Thu Oct 3 00:10:51 2002 From: S.Hinton@latrobe.edu.au (Sam Hinton) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:10:51 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1925091811.20021003101051@latrobe.edu.au> Hello Stephen, Wednesday, October 2, 2002, 10:55:02 PM, Stephen Loosley wrote: SL> Hi all, SL> Agreed. Even the Commonwealth Department of Education, Science SL> and Training would appear to be favouring 'web' strings. For example: [...] SL> [...] but that about 54% of the 63,468 undergraduate units and SL> 30,378 postgraduate units offered at Australian universities are SL> web-supported." SL> (http://www.dest.gov.au/highered/he_report/2002_2004/html/1_2.htm) I think in this case the use of the term "web-supported" is probably accurate, although it may be by accident :) In my experience, the online course material is mainly delivered through the web, usually via some third-party server-side application such as WebCT (to name one I have played with a bit). Email communication with lecturers and tutors, discussion forums, etc. are also often handled through the web interface if it is available. The web has the advantage of being accessible by most students from home, can be supported in computer study halls and libraries, and through one of the educational packages, students can be taught to "use" the site. More importantly, academics can learn how to maintain their own things in an online environment (from a trainer's perspective, it's like teaching someone how to use an application, instead of trying to teach people "about the Internet") While I'm sure there are some courses out there (eg: in compsci) that provide their students with access to some kind of terminal, and probably plenty (like me) who encourage their students to email them, I would expect in the context of the DEST report, it's probably true that the vast majority of courses with an online component use the web exclusively. That said, in the interests of accuracy, I do think that they need to clarify what they mean by "web supported". _________________________________________________________________________ S.M. Hinton Department of Media Studies Doctoral Candidate School of Communication and Critical Enquiry phone: +61 3 9479 2501 Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences mobile: +61 0401 076484 La Trobe University, Australia ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dlochrin@dot.net.au Thu Oct 3 00:15:51 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:15:51 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003081956.02129660@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021003101551.007a3bd0@mail.dot.net.au> At 08:22 AM 03-10-2002 +1000, Jan Whitaker wrote: >Have any other linkers noticed an increase in unavailable websites? Just >now I've been trying to do a bpay and the westpac site stopped >responding. Then to see if it was just them, I tried ABC.net.au/news - >also not responding. Then I tried another .au site and it came up just >fine, as did a US based .com site. I've even closed and reopened the >browser to be sure it wasn't hung up. Very interesting! Quite some time ago I found that the National Library http://www.nla.gov.au became unavailable. A recent email to NOIE, who I believe host NLA, elicited the helpful response "It works for me. Why don't you try again?" Recently I noticed ASIC http://www.asic.gov.au had disappeared, and a few weeks ago I found the Australian Catholic University http://www.acu.edu.au had gone over the horizon. This resulted in a call to my ISP, Dot Communications, and some diagnostic work by moi. If I attempt to access www.nla.gov.au from the browser and then run 'netstat -r www.nla.gov.au' from a DOS window, the part of the display showing active TCP connections shows an outbound connection to 'www-prod.nla.gov.au:80' in state 'SYN_SENT' which indicates the browser has successfully resolved the server name and initiated a TCP connection to port 80, but hasn't received a TCP response. However if I configure the browser to use Dot's proxy server instead of a "direct connection to the Internet" everything works just fine. I'm using the Netscape V4.77 browser, but Mozilla V1.1 shows the same results. Forcing the browser to use the HTTP secondary port '8080' doesn't change anything (as one would hope!). You might also try using TRACEROUTE from a DOS window, for example 'tracert www.nla.gov.au' A working site will respond like this: C:\WINDOWS>tracert sunsite.anu.edu.au Tracing route to boomer.anu.edu.au [150.203.99.2] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 144 ms 130 ms 127 ms acc02-kent-syd.comindico.com.au [203.194.30.2] 2 129 ms 124 ms 128 ms 203.194.60.254 3 131 ms 125 ms 121 ms ge6-1.cor01-syd.comindico.com.au [203.194.28.233] 4 330 ms 281 ms 266 ms ge5-0-0.bdr01-kent-syd.comindico.com.au [203.194.29.242] 5 128 ms 125 ms 124 ms ATM-4-0-0-1.sn2.optus.net.au [203.202.186.173] 6 151 ms 143 ms 145 ms Gi5-0.cn1.optus.net.au [202.139.191.130] 7 148 ms 147 ms 147 ms ACT-RNO-Dom.cn1.optus.net.au [202.139.39.246] 8 151 ms 146 ms 147 ms anu-huxley.carno.net.au [203.22.212.66] 9 156 ms 157 ms 153 ms boomer.anu.edu.au [150.203.99.2] Trace complete. C:\WINDOWS> I'd be really interested to hear the results, as Dot seem to have dropped the ball. I suspect a problem in the underlying network. David Lochrin ================================================= David Lochrin +61 2 9363 1094 PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Thu Oct 3 00:28:55 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:28:55 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses References: Message-ID: <3D9B8F47.E3779E11@praxis.com.au> Howard Lowndes wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > > > > > An interesting thing about the Bugbear virus (having seen it four times in a > > couple of days) is that I've NO idea who the message came from, or how I > > ended up in their address book! > > I think that is because it does a Klez. The common thread is that the > apparent From: and you, are both in a common, unknown, address book > somewhere. It does help to keep the virus alive because the infected > machines probably don't know they are infected, at least in the early > stages. Here is something to ponder: Quite a sophisticated virus, and only 50KB of machine code to do it! Perhaps software designers and coders can take a lesson from virii and reduce the bloatware ;) cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mikal@stillhq.com Thu Oct 3 00:35:34 2002 From: mikal@stillhq.com (Michael Still) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:35:34 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003081956.02129660@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Have any other linkers noticed an increase in unavailable websites? A lot of the mirror sites are unresponsive at the moment because of the recent Mandrake and Red Hat releases. This might be causing congestion on International links, but I would be surprised... Mikal -- Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com) UTC +10 hours ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Thu Oct 3 00:45:30 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:45:30 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021003101551.007a3bd0@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, David Lochrin wrote: > At 08:22 AM 03-10-2002 +1000, Jan Whitaker wrote: > >Have any other linkers noticed an increase in unavailable websites? Just > >now I've been trying to do a bpay and the westpac site stopped > >responding. Then to see if it was just them, I tried ABC.net.au/news - > >also not responding. Then I tried another .au site and it came up just > >fine, as did a US based .com site. I've even closed and reopened the > >browser to be sure it wasn't hung up. > > Very interesting! > > Quite some time ago I found that the National Library http://www.nla.gov.au became unavailable. A recent email to NOIE, who I believe host NLA, elicited the helpful response "It works for me. Why don't you try again?" > > Recently I noticed ASIC http://www.asic.gov.au had disappeared, and a few weeks ago I found the Australian Catholic University http://www.acu.edu.au had gone over the horizon. > > This resulted in a call to my ISP, Dot Communications, and some diagnostic work by moi. If I attempt to access www.nla.gov.au from the browser and then run 'netstat -r www.nla.gov.au' from a DOS window, the part of the display showing active TCP connections shows an outbound connection to 'www-prod.nla.gov.au:80' in state 'SYN_SENT' which indicates the browser has successfully resolved the server name and initiated a TCP connection to port 80, but hasn't received a TCP response. However if I configure the browser to use Dot's proxy server instead of a "direct connection to the Internet" everything works just fine. > > I'm using the Netscape V4.77 browser, but Mozilla V1.1 shows the same results. Forcing the browser to use the HTTP secondary port '8080' doesn't change anything (as one would hope!). > > You might also try using TRACEROUTE from a DOS window, for example 'tracert www.nla.gov.au' A working site will respond like this: > > I'd be really interested to hear the results, as Dot seem to have dropped the ball. I suspect a problem in the underlying network. Well, all 3 have just worked for me. I did have a problem with www.openoffice.org this morning. It used to work a few weeks ago but then consistently came up with "Connection timed out" this morning. In this case it was rejecting the ECN protocol, something which it used to accept in the past. I discovered this because when I disabled ECN at my end it all worked. I am now leaving ECN disabled as it appears to cause more problems than it fixes. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dlochrin@dot.net.au Thu Oct 3 00:54:14 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:54:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003081956.02129660@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021003105414.007a9a60@mail.dot.net.au> Sorry for the typo everyone... the DOS NETSTAT command is 'netstat -r' of course, with no argument. (www.nla.gov.au was on my mind!) David Lochrin ================================================= David Lochrin +61 2 9363 1094 PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mikal@stillhq.com Thu Oct 3 01:00:23 2002 From: mikal@stillhq.com (Michael Still) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:00:23 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021003101551.007a3bd0@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, David Lochrin wrote: > However if I configure the browser to use Dot's proxy server instead > of a "direct connection to the Internet" everything works just fine. Hmmm. Do you know if Dot is doing any transparent proxying or anything like that? Mikal -- Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com) UTC +10 hours ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From darius@obsidian.com.au Thu Oct 3 01:04:57 2002 From: darius@obsidian.com.au (KevinL) Date: 03 Oct 2002 11:04:57 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20021003101551.007a3bd0@mail.dot.net.au> References: <3.0.5.32.20021003101551.007a3bd0@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: <1033607098.15880.211.camel@ufo> Most likely it's a firewalling problem at their end - you send a packet, they send a large packet in response, the large packet fails to make it to you because it's larger than the MTU of one of the links (likely your dialup link), the router near your end sends back an "ICMP need frag" packet, and their firewall drops such packets. Caused by brain-dead firewall configuration - certain ICMP packets are required for healthy networking. Usually near-impossible to get fixed, as the techies at the far end will be hard to get hold of/hard to convince there's a problem. Do a google search for "ICMP need frag firewall", or thereabouts, you'll probably find pages explaining the problem in more depth. Bane of ISPs, as it's a remote problem that can look like a local problem. KevinL On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 10:15, David Lochrin wrote: > At 08:22 AM 03-10-2002 +1000, Jan Whitaker wrote: > >Have any other linkers noticed an increase in unavailable websites? Just > >now I've been trying to do a bpay and the westpac site stopped > >responding. Then to see if it was just them, I tried ABC.net.au/news - > >also not responding. Then I tried another .au site and it came up just > >fine, as did a US based .com site. I've even closed and reopened the > >browser to be sure it wasn't hung up. > > Very interesting! > > Quite some time ago I found that the National Library http://www.nla.gov.au became unavailable. A recent email to NOIE, who I believe host NLA, elicited the helpful response "It works for me. Why don't you try again?" > > Recently I noticed ASIC http://www.asic.gov.au had disappeared, and a few weeks ago I found the Australian Catholic University http://www.acu.edu.au had gone over the horizon. > > This resulted in a call to my ISP, Dot Communications, and some diagnostic work by moi. If I attempt to access www.nla.gov.au from the browser and then run 'netstat -r www.nla.gov.au' from a DOS window, the part of the display showing active TCP connections shows an outbound connection to 'www-prod.nla.gov.au:80' in state 'SYN_SENT' which indicates the browser has successfully resolved the server name and initiated a TCP connection to port 80, but hasn't received a TCP response. However if I configure the browser to use Dot's proxy server instead of a "direct connection to the Internet" everything works just fine. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Evan.ARTHUR@dest.gov.au Thu Oct 3 01:19:36 2002 From: Evan.ARTHUR@dest.gov.au (ARTHUR,Evan (Dr)) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:19:36 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Is 'the Web' increasingly used to mean 'the Internet'? Message-ID: <200210030119.g931JaQ10774@name-ext.dewr.gov.au> Sam Hinton wrote concerning the use of the term 'web supported' in a publication from the Commonwealth Department of Education, Science and Training: < Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote: > Howard Lowndes wrote: > > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: > > > > > > > > An interesting thing about the Bugbear virus (having seen it four times in a > > > couple of days) is that I've NO idea who the message came from, or how I > > > ended up in their address book! > > > > I think that is because it does a Klez. The common thread is that the > > apparent From: and you, are both in a common, unknown, address book > > somewhere. It does help to keep the virus alive because the infected > > machines probably don't know they are infected, at least in the early > > stages. > > Here is something to ponder: > Quite a sophisticated virus, and only 50KB of machine code to do it! AKA Bugbear > > Perhaps software designers and coders can take a lesson from virii and reduce > the bloatware ;) > > cheers > rickw > > > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dlochrin@dot.net.au Thu Oct 3 01:29:07 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:29:07 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20021003101551.007a3bd0@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021003112907.007b3cd0@mail.dot.net.au> At 11:00 AM 03-10-2002 +1000, Michael Still wrote: >Hmmm. Do you know if Dot is doing any transparent proxying or anything >like that? No, I don't think so. I have to get to an appointment now, but will think about that and Howard & Kevin's suggestions later. David Lochrin ================================================= David Lochrin +61 2 9363 1094 PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Thu Oct 3 02:14:03 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:14:03 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <3D9B8F47.E3779E11@praxis.com.au> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003121100.023275b0@pop.primenet.com> At 10:28 AM 3/10/02 +1000, Rick Welykochy wrote: >Here is something to ponder: >Quite a sophisticated virus, and only 50KB of machine code to do it! > >Perhaps software designers and coders can take a lesson from virii and reduce >the bloatware ;) I have an ascii output of the thing via a strange concoction of refusals [a webserver I manage booted it back to me in ascii and it was viewable without activation in my email message. If any one wants a look, let me know and I'll forward a copy. Jan BTW: my machine was clean. AND the symantic fix it is a good way to go if you don't want to scan with Norton. I heard on the radio this morning that a key indicator of infection is that NAV truly is disabled. so the only way to fix may be to use the Fxbgbear.exe . It too isn't very big. JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From saliya@hinet.net.au Thu Oct 3 02:30:11 2002 From: saliya@hinet.net.au (Saliya Wimalaratne) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:30:11 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021003065302.02cbbbc0@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 03:43 PM 2/10/02 +1000, Saliya Wimalaratne wrote: > > >Reason being: if your dad/spouse/sysadmin gets infected and the worm > >pretends to be from them - to you, it looks legit. Of course, once > >downloaded, *then* you know. But if you're using Outlook - it could be > >too late :) :) > > I'll vouch for this. I just received an infected message from a site that > I would have trusted implicitly, but it was still infected. > > Now the question is about: > does Bugbear fake its originator, and if it does, do I tell the originator > of this infected message considering that it may not have been from them at > all? You can usually rely on the headers from the 'last-hop-before-yours' - i.e. the headers that were added by your ISP's mail server. You can't really rely on any earlier ones since these are readily faked. Contacting the postmaster of the 'previous-hop' site will, if they are so inclined and have the logs available, result in finding the previous hop before them. Postmasters are less and less inclined to followup on these things in today's Internet because it costs them time/money that they pretty much can't bill for. Repeat ad infinitum till you find the originating IP - you can then take it up with them. You can't trust the source address. Regards, Saliya ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From josh@email.nu Thu Oct 3 03:11:28 2002 From: josh@email.nu (Josh Rowe) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:11:28 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Land rush for generic domains Message-ID: <001201c26a8a$982025f0$627e000a@pm10139629> Land rush for generic domains http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5217424%5E15318%5E%5Enbv%5E, 00.html Australians pursue domain names - at a price http://zdnet.com.au/newstech/ebusiness/story/0,2000024981,20268779,00.htm Josh -- http://josh.id.au/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au Thu Oct 3 03:35:54 2002 From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:35:54 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Book Review - Small Pieces Loosely Joined Message-ID: <20021003133554.K19066@anatomy.usyd.edu.au> Roger Clarke wrote: > [What interests me is the confusion between the Internet and the Web. > Am I imagining it, or has the last year seen an explosion in the use > of various terms including the string 'web' when the expression 'the > Internet' is appropriate? Have the gormless newbies infected the > rest of us?] Weinberger does that in his book _Small Pieces Loosely Joined_... Danny. Small Pieces Loosely Joined - {a unified theory of the web} David Weinberger Perseus Publishing 2002 223 pages, notes, index A book review by Danny Yee http://dannyreviews.com/h/Small_Pieces.html In _The Cluetrain Manifesto_ Weinberger and his co-authors looked at how the Net is changing relationships between businesses and customers. In _Small Pieces Loosely Joined_, he broadens his scope to the Net more generally, to how it is changing not just our communications and interactions but even aspects of our understanding and perception of the world. Running against the grain, he argues that the Web is "not hyped enough". The Web is spatial, made up of places, but without having a measure or being a container. (Weingberger manages to avoid the "cyberspace" word.) Web conversations are asynchronous, made up of loosely interwoven threads between which we flit easily. The Web is unmanaged, permanently "under construction", and in that respect closer to human nature than "the anal-perfectionism imposed on so much of our real-world lives". The Web is a social space, much of it constructed by voluntary aggregation at a scale where individuals remain distinct. And the Web has produced new kinds of knowledge and new kinds of authorities. (This bald summary of the first two thirds of _Small Pieces_ does little justice to Weinberger's explorations, but they are too discursive and chatty to be easily compacted.) Some people will find Weinberger's approach annoying. He spends a fair bit of time explaining background material -- how instant messaging works, what a mailing list is, etc. -- and he makes some simplifications -- he conflates the "Web" with "the Internet", for example, as is explained in the first footnote. He also presents ideas through largely anecdotal case studies, with even technical material often explained through bio-sketches of famous people -- want to understand what the Internet does? let's go ask network engineer Scott Bradner -- which gives _Small Pieces_ a kind of "documentary" feel to it. The approach is a far cry from academically rigorous social psychology, but Weinberger's arguments mostly jell with my intuitions and I have no doubt they could stand closer scrutiny. And though there's little that's novel in _Small Pieces_, even the "digerati" are likely to find a few provoking ideas in it -- I did -- and it's a uniquely readable and accessible survey of the topic. In the final third of _Small Pieces_, however, I think Weinberger loses the plot. He attempts more than anyone should try to do in sixty pages: an introduction to epistemology and the philosophy of mind, along with a sweeping attack on what he calls "default philosophy", in which he includes individualism, realism, and relativism as well as functionalist theories of mind. Some of this is just too shallow: for example he says that many of the 28 replies accompanying Searle's original Chinese Room paper "got Searle's point dead wrong", but otherwise ignores criticisms of that paper, or of Searle. And he ends up espousing a kind of dualism, which is then used as a metaphor, with the relationship between the Web and the underlying Internet described as "pineal-like" after Descartes' favourite organ. Right or wrong, most of the philosophy Weinberger deploys is just irrelevant to what he has to say about the Web or, where it might be relevant, not followed up. Andy Clark's emphasis on the role of "external scaffolding" in our comprehension of the world, for example, could have led to consideration of the differences between basic chat and MUDs with an external fabric, or between archived and unarchived mailing lists. Still, if Weinberger inspires a few people to read Clark's _Being There_ or Hofstadter and Dennett's _The Mind's I_ with these excursions, that will be a worthy achievement. Disclaimer: there is a certain circularity involved in my reviewing _Small Pieces Loosely Joined_, since I am one of three people Weinberger uses as examples of "web authorities". -- %T Small Pieces Loosely Joined %S {a unified theory of the web} %A Weinberger, David %I Perseus Books %C Cambridge, MA %D 2002 %O hardcover, notes, index %G ISBN 0-7382-0543-5 %P xii,223pp %W http://www.smallpieces.com/ %K Internet, philosophy 25 September 2002 ------------------------------------------------------ Copyright (c) 2002 Danny Yee http://danny.oz.au/ Danny Yee's Book Reviews http://dannyreviews.com/ ------------------------------------------------------ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Thu Oct 3 05:25:08 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:25:08 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DDFA@EXCHANGE_AU> Also, according to incident.org, there's a growing number of scans on Port 137 from infected machines ... is there something blockable on personal firewalls to help with bugbear? RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Jan Whitaker [mailto:jwhit@PrimeNet.Com] > Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 12:14 > To: Rick Welykochy > Cc: Link Institute > Subject: Re: [LINK] Ponderings on the effects of computer viruses > > > At 10:28 AM 3/10/02 +1000, Rick Welykochy wrote: > >Here is something to ponder: > > >Quite a sophisticated virus, and only 50KB of machine code to do it! > > > >Perhaps software designers and coders can take a lesson from > virii and reduce > >the bloatware ;) > > I have an ascii output of the thing via a strange concoction > of refusals [a > webserver I manage booted it back to me in ascii and it was viewable > without activation in my email message. > > If any one wants a look, let me know and I'll forward a copy. > Jan > BTW: my machine was clean. AND the symantic fix it is a good > way to go if > you don't want to scan with Norton. I heard on the radio > this morning that > a key indicator of infection is that NAV truly is disabled. > so the only > way to fix may be to use the Fxbgbear.exe . It too isn't very big. > > > JLWhitaker Associates > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia > jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm > > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Thu Oct 3 06:49:18 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:49:18 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Changes in the support for the link list Message-ID: Linkers Some of you have noticed that various aspects of link, notably the web site, have been getting a little ragged round the edges if not failing. In part this has been due to my laziness, and in part due to a shift by ANU in their support arrangements. Changes are now happening. ANU is phasing out majordomo which supports link and replacing it with mailman http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/. This has a number of advantages. In particular it's part of GNU and the interface for the list administrator is via the web rather than providing a unix level account. They have set up a dummy list for me to get my feet wet. After I have explored this I might ask for some help from list members who are mailmen gurus and figure out how to go live with this software. My first job was mail sorting and delivery with the Postmaster General's Department over Christmas when I was 15 in 1956! Full circle :-) Tony -- -- phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au Thu Oct 3 07:28:50 2002 From: mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Mark Tearle) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:28:50 +0800 (WST) Subject: [LINK] linux.conf.au 2003 Registrations Open Message-ID: For those interested, linux.conf.au 2003 has opened up registrations. More details at http://www.linux.conf.au/ Linux.Conf.Au is a technical conference for professionals, enthusiasts, and students of Linux and Open Source. Technical papers are presented in a lecture style environment, with keynote presentations by a select few luminaries from the Linux and Open Source community world-wide. Yours Mark -- Mark Tearle - mark@tearle.com "Happiness is not a lifestyle, happiness is" - greeting card linux.conf.au 2003 - The Australian Linux Technical Conference http://conf.linux.org.au/ 22nd - 25th January 2003 in Perth ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Thu Oct 3 13:41:00 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:41:00 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Changes in the support for the link list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Tony Barry wrote: > They have set up a dummy list for me to get my feet wet. After I have > explored this I might ask for some help from list members who are > mailmen gurus and figure out how to go live with this software. I run both majordomo and mailman at various sites, and I too want to convert the majordomo sites to mailman, but I haven't yet worked out how to convert the archives. If you sus out the howto, would you fill me in pse :). As for configuring mailman, it is very intuitive. I suggest that you grab the majordomo subscriber list and just cut & paste it into the bulk subscription facility of mailman. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From stephen@melbpc.org.au Thu Oct 3 17:00:00 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 03:00:00 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Federal Government, the Education Sector, and the Internet In-Reply-To: <200210030532.g935WnP11814@name-ext.dewr.gov.au> Message-ID: <200210031704.g93H40dC047920@relay1.melbpc.org.au> Hello Evan, Sam and all .. At 03:32 PM 3/10/2002, ARTHUR, Evan (Dr) wrote: > Thanks... Overall the survey was a first try and those involved > in both the data capture and the analysis learned a good deal. We > hope to repeat the exercise every two years or so. I will forward > your comments to the officer who is likely to be involved from our > side in the formulation... Evan Arthur Manager Innovation Branch Good on you Evan, and thank you Sam for your clarification. A point that may be made here is that one hopes more Departmental Officers in general may be allocated to the field of on-line learning, particularly regarding the tertiary sector. Things are moving quickly world-wide in terms of 'E-Learning' and while 54% is good, one might feel our Dept. would be well advised to treat E-learning as high priority for resources. Of course, the Department's announcement today of an ICT Education and Training Policies website appears an appropriate & timely initiative: -- "The Commonwealth Department of Education Science and Technology (DEST) commissioned research into the policies being adopted to support the effective use of ICT in education and training. The outcome of this research included: · the creation of an ICT policies database · the publication of two reports: a report on the Australian situation; and on the international context. Information Communication Technology Policies for Education & Training See: http://ictpolicy.edna.edu.au/ -- However, when exploring in detail the above website, one comes across the following message ... "Publications: It is intended that a number of significant publications and reports will be listed here as this web site evolves. The two reports written as a result of the research into ICT Policies for Education and Training will be listed here as soon as they have been finalised (they are in final draft at the moment). http://ictpolicy.edna.edu.au/Index.Cfm?Location=Publications -- As Australia is well regarded as an education provider, one might hope that the Department is cognizant of the importance of E-Learning, and, considers allocating more resources to this whole field, as is appropriate going forward. Cheers all ... Stephen Loosley Melbourne, Australia ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From KubSolley@altavista.com Thu Oct 3 16:20:18 2002 From: KubSolley@altavista.com (Kub Solley) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:20:18 -0400 Subject: [LINK] Enlarge Your Penis Naturally (7p5j) Message-ID: <20021003191343.7EBAE189CA@mx1.izrsolutions.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/48cdd956/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Thu Oct 3 20:33:28 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 06:33:28 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: abc.online Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021004063223.022aaec0@pop.primenet.com> Thanks to the ABC linker who sent this along. Link is such a wonderful way to get the word out to people who can actually follow things up! :-) >Hi Jan - the problem you experienced with ABC online this morning was "a piece >of >networking equipment that needed a bit of a kick" to quote our newmedia >systems >people. Doncha love the technical nature of the solution? ;-) Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mikal@stillhq.com Thu Oct 3 21:47:02 2002 From: mikal@stillhq.com (Michael Still) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 07:47:02 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Changes in the support for the link list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote: > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Tony Barry wrote: > > > They have set up a dummy list for me to get my feet wet. After I have > > explored this I might ask for some help from list members who are > > mailmen gurus and figure out how to go live with this software. > > I run both majordomo and mailman at various sites, and I too want to > convert the majordomo sites to mailman, but I haven't yet worked out how > to convert the archives. If you sus out the howto, would you fill me in > pse :). Well, majordomo seems to use it's own internal format, whereas mailman just uses pipermail. Perhaps some sort of perl script is in order? That's the sort of think that should be GPLed and released for general use as well... Mikal -- Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com) UTC +10 hours ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM Thu Oct 3 22:19:01 2002 From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM (Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:19:01 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: abc.online In-Reply-To: Message from Jan Whitaker of "Fri, 04 Oct 2002 06:33:28 +1000." <5.0.2.1.0.20021004063223.022aaec0@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <200210032219.g93MJ1m10780@vesvi.aus.sun.com> Ahhh good old percussive maintenance. alan. -- Alan Hargreaves Senior Technical Support Specialist Phone : +61 2 9844 5379 Mobile : +61 416 207 573 Product Technical Support (APAC) Fax : +61 2 9418 2143 Sun Microsystems Call Centre: 1 800 555 786 828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072 /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ > Thanks to the ABC linker who sent this along. Link is such a wonderful way > to get the word out to people who can actually follow things up! :-) > > >Hi Jan - the problem you experienced with ABC online this morning was "a piece > >of > >networking equipment that needed a bit of a kick" to quote our newmedia > >systems > >people. > > Doncha love the technical nature of the solution? ;-) > > Jan > > > JLWhitaker Associates > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia > jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm > > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Thu Oct 3 22:34:23 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:34:23 +1000 Subject: [LINK] AM today : Bob McMullin on Telstra breakup option Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021004082827.02328ec0@pop.primenet.com> AM should have a transcript of Bob McMullin on some time today about Labor's position on Telstra breakup into infrastructure and services businesses. Parallels Link member comments recently. There is an interesting quote when the point about the effect on current shareholder price was mentioned as being underminded by this approach. Bob: it's only a problem if the vertical integration is providing an unnatural subsidy /benefit in some way and that is the point of the criticism of unfair competition. I.e. you can't have it both ways - either there is is open equal competition to other service providers or there isn't. Right now there isn't. also, the comment from the Government [in this case Kemp as Acting Minister] was that Labor was trying to sell off the profitable bits. If it's the profitable bits that would come into private ownership, that is shareholders, and profit influences share price and dividends, isn't that a good thing for current shareholders as well? Why isn't this being understood, or is my logic flawed? Or is the problem really that the government doesn't want to take on the burden of the cost of infrastructure and lose out on its cash cow at the same time [those same profits and dividends that currently come back to the public purse]? Also on AM, NFF is coming out against further sell off in the current review [can't remember the bloke's name - Esten?] Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Thu Oct 3 22:27:08 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:27:08 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021004082609.0232eec0@pop.primenet.com> Given our previous canvassing of this issue.... The Age today: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/03/1033538710666.html Telstra admits technology problems Canberra October 3 2002 Telstra has admitted thousands of households are missing out on high-speed Internet access because its technology is inadequate in parts of the network. In a submission to a senate inquiry looking into Australia's telecommunications network, Telstra admitted its vaunted ADSL broadband service was not compatible with the copper cables used by many households. ADSL is supposed to deliver digital Internet access at speeds 30 times faster than the normal 28 kilobyte connections in most homes. But Telstra said some of its digitally-enhanced pair gains, which split two phone lines along a single copper cable, cannot handle ADSL. [snip] JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From hylafax@lannet.com.au Thu Oct 3 22:38:25 2002 From: hylafax@lannet.com.au (hylafax@lannet.com.au) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:38:25 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Fwd: abc.online In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021004063223.022aaec0@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Thanks to the ABC linker who sent this along. Link is such a wonderful way > to get the word out to people who can actually follow things up! :-) > > >Hi Jan - the problem you experienced with ABC online this morning was "a piece > >of > >networking equipment that needed a bit of a kick" to quote our newmedia > >systems > >people. > > Doncha love the technical nature of the solution? ;-) Yes, but it is life experience that determines the exact placement and energy transfer requirements for successful implementation. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Thu Oct 3 22:44:22 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:44:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] digital camera selection Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021004084327.0231d110@pop.primenet.com> If anyone has been considering getting a dig camera [no, I don't have one already], there is an excellent article in the Age today with all the criteria to consider. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/03/1033283526749.html Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From exy15@sympatico.ca Thu Oct 3 22:52:43 2002 From: exy15@sympatico.ca (Canadian Subsidy Directory 2002) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:52:43 -0400 Subject: [LINK] Canadian funds available Message-ID: <200210031812.g93ICM213019@plugngo.travelnet.ca> CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY 4865 HWY 138,R.R 1 ST-ANDREWS WEST ONTARIO, KOC 2A0 PRESS RELEASE CANADIAN SUBSIDY DIRECTORY YEAR 2002 EDITION Legal Deposit-National Library of Canada ISBN 2-922870-02-2 (2002) ISBN 2-922870-01-4 (2001) M.G. Publishing is offering to the public a revised edition of the Canadian Subsidy Directory, a guide containing more than 2800 direct and indirect financial subsidies, grants and loans offered by government departments and agencies, foundations, associations and organizations. In this new 2002 edition all programs are well described. The Canadian Subsidy Directory is the most comprehensive tool to start up a business, improve existent activities, set up a business plan, or obtain assistance from experts in fields such as: Industry, transport, agriculture, communications, municipal infrastructure, education, import-export, labor, construction and renovation, the service sector, hi-tech industries, research and development, joint ventures, arts, cinema, theatre, music and recording industry, the self employed, contests, and new talents. Assistance from and for foundations and associations, guidance to prepare a business plan, market surveys, computers, and much more! The Canadian Subsidy Directory is sold $ 49.95, to obtain a copy please call one of the following distributors: Canadian Business Resource Center: (250)381-4822, 8am-4pm pacific time. Fureteur bookstore: (450)465-5597 Fax (450)465-8144 (credit card orders only). ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From brd@austarmetro.com.au Thu Oct 3 23:20:54 2002 From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:20:54 +1000 Subject: [LINK] What does the Internet look like? Message-ID: <3D9CD0D6.18C29B1D@austarmetro.com.au> A Random Graph is not a graph drawn at random. A formal definition is a graph G(n; p) on n vertices with each possible edge existing with equal probability p. There is a set of such graphs; which one you might chose to draw means you can select one - at random. What does the Internet look like? Oct 3rd 2002 >From The Economist print edition http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1365118 It is less random than people thought FEW questions are simultaneously so baffling and so significant as: “what is the structure of the Internet?” Baffling, because the thing has grown without any planning or central organisation. Significant, because knowing how the routing computers that are the net's physical embodiment are interconnected is vital if it is to be used properly. At the latest count, there were 228,265 of these routers around the world. They direct the packets of data that make up Internet traffic. Any effort to map the Internet is necessarily incomplete and out of date the moment it appears. Instead, Albert-Laslo Barabasi and his colleagues at the University of Notre Dame, in Indiana, treat the net as though it were a natural phenomenon. What scientists generally do with a natural phenomenon that they do not understand is to build a model of it. Dr Barabasi's latest paper on the matter, just published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, presents a general framework for improving the accuracy of Internet models. Until 1999, the standard way of modelling the Internet was to use randomly generated graphs, in which routers were represented by points and the links between them by lines. But it turns out that such random graphs are a poor approximation because they miss two important features. The first is that links in the net are “preferentially attached”: a router that has many links to it is likely to attract still more links; one that does not, will not. The second is that the Internet has more clusters of connected points than random graphs do. These two properties give the Internet a topology that is scale-free—in other words, small bits of it, when suitably magnified, resemble the whole. Dr Barabasi noticed that the World Wide Web (the most visible bit of the Internet) was scale-free in 1999. His observation touched off a flurry of research, and others pointed out that the Internet as a whole was scale-free, too. This has several implications. On the one hand, scale-free topology is resistant to random failures—one reason the Internet, despite the lack of artifice in its design, has proved so reliable. On the other hand, because there are disproportionately many hubs (as well-connected routers are known), the net is particularly susceptible to deliberate attacks on those hubs, the sort of thing that cyberterrorists might attempt. The goal, Dr Barabasi says, is to create models that are statistically indistinguishable from the real Internet. When and if that is achieved, the models should have predictive, as well as descriptive, power. Already, understanding the net's scale-free structure has led to new results. For example, it had long been thought that the best way to curb the spread of a computer virus was to change the software of machines on the net so that they were less easily “infected”. Studies using random graphs had shown that changing the software on more and more machines had a cumulative effect. That is not true in a scale-free setting. There, most software changes make no difference to the rate at which a virus spreads (although they obviously protect the machines in question). However, treating a relatively small number of hubs in a scale-free system can stamp viruses out completely. That observation may have implications beyond the virtual world. Research has shown that the network of human sexual partners seems to be scale-free, too. In other words, some people have all the luck, while others have none. So stopping the spread of a disease such as AIDS may be a comparatively simple matter of getting treatment to the right people—a strange but real corollary to a piece of research on cyberspace. -- The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us. -- Paul Valery Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd@austarmetro.com.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Thu Oct 3 23:55:46 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:55:46 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE06@EXCHANGE_AU> The story's spun like mad, though. Two things ignored in the spin ... the submission says: 1) No more non-DSL compatible pairgain deployment; and 2) A DSL/pairgain linecard development project with Alcatel. (Page 54). I will, unfortunately, agree with one of Telstra's defences. I was at the launch of its ADSL services in April, 2000. Here's a snip from the story (CommsWorld, May 2000): "Neither speeds nor service will be given a carte-blanche guarantee, though, with user connectivity dependent on line qualification." OK, in 2000 Telstra was optimistic about reach, saying it expected the service to be available to 90% of households ... but it would be hard, in the media, to find a technology launch that wasn't spun to the opimistic side. Modem manufacturers still tell the world that they're selling 56k bps/modems... Yes, I know this sounds apologist. But as Bob McMullen told a press conference yesterday, debates should be based on fact. RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Jan Whitaker [mailto:jwhit@PrimeNet.Com] > Sent: Friday, 4 October 2002 08:27 > To: link@www.anu.edu.au > Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra > > > Given our previous canvassing of this issue.... > > The Age today: > > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/03/1033538710666.html > Telstra admits technology problems > Canberra > October 3 2002 > > Telstra has admitted thousands of households are missing out > on high-speed > Internet access because its technology is inadequate in parts > of the network. > > In a submission to a senate inquiry looking into Australia's > telecommunications network, Telstra admitted its vaunted ADSL > broadband > service was not compatible with the copper cables used by > many households. > > ADSL is supposed to deliver digital Internet access at speeds > 30 times > faster than the normal 28 kilobyte connections in most homes. > > But Telstra said some of its digitally-enhanced pair gains, > which split two > phone lines along a single copper cable, cannot handle ADSL. > > [snip] > > JLWhitaker Associates > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia > jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm > > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From johnc@vastsystems.com.au Fri Oct 4 00:23:03 2002 From: johnc@vastsystems.com.au (John Clarke) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:23:03 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Changes in the support for the link list In-Reply-To: ; from mikal@stillhq.com on Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 07:47:02AM +1000 References: Message-ID: <20021004102303.A19140@vastsystems.com.au> On Fri, Oct 04, 2002 at 07:47:02AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: > On Thu, 3 Oct 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote: > > > I run both majordomo and mailman at various sites, and I too want to > > convert the majordomo sites to mailman, but I haven't yet worked out how > > to convert the archives. If you sus out the howto, would you fill me in > > pse :). > > Well, majordomo seems to use it's own internal format, whereas mailman > just uses pipermail. Perhaps some sort of perl script is in order? Mailman comes with a program for rebuilding archives (~mailman/bin/arch). I think majordomo's archives are in mbox format, so it should simply be a matter of running this script on each mbox. Cheers, John -- whois !JC774-AU@whois.aunic.net GPG key id: 0xD59C360F http://kirriwa.net/john/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From bscott@gtlaw.com.au Fri Oct 4 01:21:53 2002 From: bscott@gtlaw.com.au (bscott@gtlaw.com.au) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:21:53 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear Message-ID: In the last hour I've received 14 emails from strangers (well, I thought they were strangers, how come my address is in their contact list?) with the bugbear virus attached (some are repeats, two are in ?Polish?). I don't recall seeing something so virulent before. Brendan ======================================================================= This electronic mail is solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If you receive this electronic mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify the sender by electronic mail or using any of the following. Brendan Scott Lawyer GILBERT + TOBIN Phone: +612 9263 4230 GPO Box 3810 Facsimile: +612 9263 4111 SYDNEY NSW 2001 Email: bscott@gtlaw.com.au AUSTRALIA Website: http://www.gtlaw.com.au Liability limited by the Solicitors Scheme approved under the Professional Standards Act 1994 (NSW). ======================================================================= ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Fri Oct 4 01:02:09 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:02:09 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ACA Posts WLAN FAQs Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE0C@EXCHANGE_AU> http://www.aca.gov.au/consumer/faq/wlans.htm Richard Chirgwin ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au Fri Oct 4 01:47:50 2002 From: glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au (Glen Turner) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:17:50 +0930 Subject: [LINK] What does the Internet look like? References: <3D9CD0D6.18C29B1D@austarmetro.com.au> Message-ID: <3D9CF346.4090909@aarnet.edu.au> > Already, understanding the net's scale-free structure has led to new > results. For example, it had long been thought that the best way to curb > the spread of a computer virus was to change the software of machines on > the net so that they were less easily ?infected?. Studies using random > graphs had shown that changing the software on more and more machines had a > cumulative effect. That is not true in a scale-free setting. There, most > software changes make no difference to the rate at which a virus spreads > (although they obviously protect the machines in question). However, > treating a relatively small number of hubs in a scale-free system can stamp > viruses out completely. To clarify: these 'virus hubs' are not the same as the Internet routing cores discussed elsewhere in the article. A major 'virus hub' is much more likely to be an old copy of Outlook with a large variety of e-mail addresses in its address book. Similarly for worms, the nexuses (nexii?) are usually the old machines that no one uses or cares for anymore. There's an circularity in the argument about patching machines. Only unpatched machines are eligible to become a nexus. Patching all machines removes all odds of a machine under our control from becoming a nexus. The argument that not all unpatched and infected machines are equal still holds, some have little impact, less have a major impact and a handful become nexuses at the core of hundreds of thousands of subsequent infections. -- Glen Turner Network Engineer (08) 8303 3936 Australian Academic and Research Network glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au http://www.aarnet.edu.au/ -- The revolution will not be televised, it will be digitised ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From bpa@iss.net.au Fri Oct 4 02:29:55 2002 From: bpa@iss.net.au (Brenda Aynsley) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:59:55 +0930 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear References: Message-ID: <3D9CFD23.7050606@iss.net.au> bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote: > In the last hour I've received 14 emails from strangers (well, I thought > they were strangers, how come my address is in their contact list?) with > the bugbear virus attached (some are repeats, two are in ?Polish?). > I don't recall seeing something so virulent before. > isnt it related to the 1 degree of separation argument? I have noticed that all bugbear emails are between 69-71kb so now I just look at the size of the email as an additional clue as to their parentage. cheers brenda -- Brenda Aynsley || Mobile:+61(0) 412 662 988 BA, DipSocSci(sociology), DipAppSci(computing), MACS, PCP Vice President Australian Computer Society http://www.acs.org.au/ -- Oz Business Partners - helping you do better business Web Design and Implementation : Technical Writing for Effect Multimedia Production : Training Development and Delivery http://www.ozbusinesspartners.com/ ACN 069 346 327 Phone: +61(0) 8 8357 8844 Fax: +61(0) 8 8272 7486 ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Oct 4 02:23:28 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear References: Message-ID: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote: > In the last hour I've received 14 emails from strangers (well, I thought > they were strangers, how come my address is in their contact list?) with > the bugbear virus attached (some are repeats, two are in ?Polish?). > I don't recall seeing something so virulent before. Bugbear is particularly nasty. Similar to yourself, I have been receiving emails from an infected machine (my machine is not infected -- it is running linux), as well as being notified by others that emails in my name are originating from said machine. The emails are in *my name* with a fake email address, can contain message bodies that were originally written by me, years ago :( Unfortunately (and this is going to cause a lot of grief), bugbear sends the contents of randomly selected emails it finds on the infected host to randomly selected addresses it finds in address book(s). The email headers are mostly bogus, containing fake From addresses and real names. Businesses and consumers alike will be fuming once they realise private/confidential emails are being sent out to total strangers. Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on their PCs for years, one wonders when (a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths through its buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and for all these malicious attacks; (b) Windows users are going to start using non-volatile email readers (there are many many alternatives to Outlook); (c) Businesses mount a class action against Microsoft to recover damages relating to system down time, lost productivity and possible breaches of internal security and corporate confidentiality. As has been pointed out time and time again, if these kinds of activities or 'attacks' were launched against a business, but the cause was physical break-in / negligence / incompetence / competitor-based attack instead of computer software, the situation would have been resolved in the courts yonks ago. One must conclude that computer software, and the Windows product in particular, are still out in the 'wild west' area where legal issues and liabilities are concerned. Furthermore, it is evident that Microsoft aggressively leverages this 'wild west mentality' to get away with blue murder in the marketplace. cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From marty@supine.com Fri Oct 4 02:34:48 2002 From: marty@supine.com (Martin) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:34:48 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Taking a Horror Story to the Media Message-ID: <20021004023448.GC7665@kevin.supine.com> hi linkers just looking for some feedback. my family have been involved in one of those horror stories that is the usual fodder for the likes of ACA, Today Tonight etc.etc. up till now we've been going thru the official channels (dept. fair trading, lawyers, lawyers and more lawyers) and there's no ombudsman for this industry. the whole thing has dragged on for more then 2 years now and my parents are getting frustrated with the system. one of the options we discussed was setting up a website to publicise the saga and inviting one of the tv shows to cover it... my questions for you guys: is there any value in getting the media involved? are there any repercussions with things happening thru official channels if we go to the media? cheers marty -- Close your brown eyes, And lay down next to me. Close your eyes, lay down. 'Cos there goes the fear, Let it go. "There Goes the Fear" - Doves ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Fri Oct 4 02:52:39 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:52:39 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE06@EXCHANGE_AU> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE06@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: Mmmm ... I've been reasonably satisfied with ADSL in the 2 years I've been using it. About the only things that really bug me from time-to-time are Telstra's network server performance (its DNS, mail server and HTTP server implementations seem to fall over periodically) and the unreliability of the overseas links a few months back (it seemed that every ship, liner, or fishing boat that left port anywhere in the Southern hemisphere was dredging up either the cable on the Jasuarus link or the Pan Pacific cable without fail) was becoming legendary. (One wondered whether there was a ghostly Telstra cable targeted Marie Celeste cruising the seas off Oz for a while there!) The network server performance seems to be getting more reliable, and the service has been pretty good for the last month or two (I don't really care whether or not I can access Telstra's Web site when its Web servers fall over, and Telstra seems to be going for a Sun-One solution to address this continuing reliability problem) ... touch wood. :) ADSL is always gonna be affected by 'legacy' technological issues like those below, line filtering capabilities, distance from the exchange (in a copper environment), the traffic potential supported by the different repeaters installed at the exchanges (and Telstra did underestimate ADSL's market popularity at some exchanges), and should probably be seen as an interim broadband measure like cable. If it were viewed as a 'final solution' to data I'd be a tad disappointed with Telstra. The much vaunted WiFi (which, as a client who uses 802.11b at home, I am interested in) only adds convenience rather than bandwidth to the cable/ADSL alternative. Until network providers provide it seriously, I can currently fudge that using my own base station/router connected to the ADSL modem, and 802.11b cards in my Macs and PC's ... and there's nothing like sitting out on the balcony on a sunny day, sipping the odd mint julep and accessing the Net from the lap-top at high speed. :) Satellite has problems with latency and error correction, and isn't something I've ever considered viable in an IP sense. Besides that, the theoretical maximum data rates peak much too low, and satellite can be unreliable in various meteorological and astronomical conditions. Personally I live for a time (in the probable distant future) when Telstra has bitten the bullet, dismantled the copper and installed optic fibre to the home, but at current data and bandwidth prices that isn't at economic option from any perspective, and ADSL fills the niche. :) Regards, At 9:55 AM +1000 4/10/2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: >The story's spun like mad, though. > >Two things ignored in the spin ... the submission says: >1) No more non-DSL compatible pairgain deployment; and >2) A DSL/pairgain linecard development project with Alcatel. >(Page 54). > >I will, unfortunately, agree with one of Telstra's defences. I was at the >launch of its ADSL services in April, 2000. Here's a snip from the story >(CommsWorld, May 2000): >"Neither speeds nor service will be given a carte-blanche guarantee, though, >with user connectivity dependent on line qualification." > >OK, in 2000 Telstra was optimistic about reach, saying it expected the >service to be available to 90% of households ... but it would be hard, in >the media, to find a technology launch that wasn't spun to the opimistic >side. Modem manufacturers still tell the world that they're selling 56k >bps/modems... > >Yes, I know this sounds apologist. But as Bob McMullen told a press >conference yesterday, debates should be based on fact. > >RC > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jan Whitaker [mailto:jwhit@PrimeNet.Com] >> Sent: Friday, 4 October 2002 08:27 >> To: link@www.anu.edu.au >> Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra >> >> >> Given our previous canvassing of this issue.... >> >> The Age today: >> >> http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/03/1033538710666.html > > Telstra admits technology problems >> Canberra >> October 3 2002 >> >> Telstra has admitted thousands of households are missing out >> on high-speed >> Internet access because its technology is inadequate in parts >> of the network. >> >> In a submission to a senate inquiry looking into Australia's >> telecommunications network, Telstra admitted its vaunted ADSL >> broadband >> service was not compatible with the copper cables used by >> many households. >> >> ADSL is supposed to deliver digital Internet access at speeds >> 30 times >> faster than the normal 28 kilobyte connections in most homes. >> >> But Telstra said some of its digitally-enhanced pair gains, >> which split two >> phone lines along a single copper cable, cannot handle ADSL. >> >> [snip] >> >> JLWhitaker Associates >> Melbourne, Victoria, Australia >> jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm >> >> >> ---------- >> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ >> >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Fri Oct 4 03:01:58 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:01:58 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <3D9CFD23.7050606@iss.net.au> References: <3D9CFD23.7050606@iss.net.au> Message-ID: Mmmm, I've only had a couple of BugBear infected e-mails, but given that my primary e-mail client is a Mac they're no problem. On MS machines the solution to most e-mail virii is pretty simple. Simply break the application chain these little creeps find so necessary. Instead of Outlook (or Outlook Express, or Entourage) install an non-MS mailer like Eudora or Pegasus or whatever. Instead of IE, use Netscape or Mozilla or Opera or whatever. Once the script fails to find the default installation, they invariably fail. As for attachments generally ... anyone who clicks on an executable attachment without taking various precautions deserves exactly what they get. :) That said, I do hope MS is plugging the various Win32 API, ActiveX and other security bugs in its new .NET implementations. :) Regards, At 11:59 AM +0930 4/10/2002, Brenda Aynsley wrote: >bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote: >>In the last hour I've received 14 emails from strangers (well, I thought >>they were strangers, how come my address is in their contact list?) with >>the bugbear virus attached (some are repeats, two are in ?Polish?). >>I don't recall seeing something so virulent before. >> > >isnt it related to the 1 degree of separation argument? I have >noticed that all bugbear emails are between 69-71kb so now I just >look at the size of the email as an additional clue as to their >parentage. > >cheers >brenda > > >-- >Brenda Aynsley || Mobile:+61(0) 412 662 988 >BA, DipSocSci(sociology), DipAppSci(computing), MACS, PCP >Vice President Australian Computer Society >http://www.acs.org.au/ >-- >Oz Business Partners - helping you do better business >Web Design and Implementation : Technical Writing for Effect >Multimedia Production : Training Development and Delivery > http://www.ozbusinesspartners.com/ ACN 069 346 327 > Phone: +61(0) 8 8357 8844 Fax: +61(0) 8 8272 7486 > >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Oct 4 03:20:18 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 13:20:18 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE06@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <3D9D08F2.F4DD89B1@praxis.com.au> Frank O'Connor wrote: > The network server performance seems to be getting more reliable, and > the service has been pretty good for the last month or two (I don't > really care whether or not I can access Telstra's Web site when its > Web servers fall over, and Telstra seems to be going for a Sun-One > solution to address this continuing reliability problem) ... touch > wood. :) Perhaps Balmer's visit to Telstra will be too little too late, if Telstra have recognised server reliability problems and are already fixing them with alternative OS implementations. cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Fri Oct 4 03:28:37 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:28:37 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: Rick Welykochy : >One must conclude that computer software, and the Windows product in >particular, >are still out in the 'wild west' area where legal issues and >liabilities are concerned. >Furthermore, it is evident that Microsoft aggressively leverages >this 'wild west >mentality' to get away with blue murder in the marketplace. Check over the analysis at: http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/SOS/PaperLiaby.html The thing that's interesting is that I wrote that almost exactly 14 (fourteen) years ago, which, I need scarcely remind people, was before the vast majority even of linkers were using the Internet. And I suspect I don't need to change very much at all. Grim, ain't it?! -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor, Uni of Hong Kong, Dept of Comp Sci and Info Sys Visiting Fellow, Australian National University, Dept of Comp Sci ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Fri Oct 4 04:28:58 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:28:58 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra In-Reply-To: <3D9D08F2.F4DD89B1@praxis.com.au> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE06@EXCHANGE_AU> <3D9D08F2.F4DD89B1@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: I think that's precisely the reason for Ballmer's visit. I can imagine the conversation now: Steve Ballmer(SB): "Sun-One is just Solaris with JAVA with Web Services." Telstra Exec (TE): "It's reliable, it's scalable, it's secure, it clusters, it load balances ... it works." SB: "But .NET will do all that." TE: "Sure, when it arrives, when it's debugged, when the security issues have been worked out, and if we buy all the incidental server software and licenses." SB: "You can get do it with Windows 2000 and the like until it's all in place." TE: "What do you think we've been doing? At the moment our customer based is very dissatisfied with server reliability and performance ... and a lot of those problems are Windows related." SB: "Like what?" TE: "Ever tried to do maintenance on a DNS server that comes to a screaming halt every time the administrator drops a menu or runs a maintenance process?" SB: "Well you should take the server off-line first." TE: "Don't have to do that with Sun-One. Ever tried clustering and load balancing more than 16 servers/CPU's under Windows 2000." SB: "Create sub-domains." TE: "Dont have to do that with Sun-One." SB: "Who'd want to cluster that many servers anyway?" TE: "We do. We need to cluster a vast number of servers for optimum performance ... I mean it is a national telecommunications company for God's sake." SB: "I repeat, what do you need to cluster so many servers for?" TE: "Little numbers like network services, web-serving, application serving, directory services, authentication and PKI, secure e-commerce ... you know." SB: "We can do all that under .NET." TE: "Sure ... when it's all in place, when you've ironed out the bugs, when ADS is scalable beyond 2 million clients, when we're prepared to pay the license fees for all the incidental server software and applications we'll need. With Sun-One we get it all ... including an application server RAD ... in one. Sure, they cost ... but the aggravation we've been having trying to run a major public WAN using MS software in the past has convinced us we need to convert from MS." SB: "OK ... we'll offer you 50% off all licensing, a support agreement you wouldn't believe, access to all server software necessary to make it work without cost ... and I'll pay for this lunch." TE: "Sold. It's great to be back in MS's capable hands." Regards, At 1:20 PM +1000 4/10/2002, Rick Welykochy wrote: >Frank O'Connor wrote: > >> The network server performance seems to be getting more reliable, and >> the service has been pretty good for the last month or two (I don't >> really care whether or not I can access Telstra's Web site when its >> Web servers fall over, and Telstra seems to be going for a Sun-One >> solution to address this continuing reliability problem) ... touch >> wood. :) > >Perhaps Balmer's visit to Telstra will be too little too late, if Telstra >have recognised server reliability problems and are already fixing them >with alternative OS implementations. > > >cheers >rickw > > >-- >_________________________________ >Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services > >That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Fri Oct 4 05:23:27 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:23:27 +1000 Subject: [LINK] RFC: Vic eDemocracy Enquiry Message-ID: The Vic Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee is seeking submissions in relation to its current Inquiry into Electronic Democracy. The following are downloadable from: http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/sarc/Current%20Inquires.htm#EDemocracy - the Discussion Paper (440KB of PDF), at: http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/sarc/E-Democracy/Discussion%20Paper.pdf - 9 one-page Discussion Sheets. At a quick glance, it seems to be long on the automation of existing, representative democracy, and short on direct democracy, plebiscites, initiatives and referenda. Odd, that ... -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor, Uni of Hong Kong, Dept of Comp Sci and Info Sys Visiting Fellow, Australian National University, Dept of Comp Sci ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Fri Oct 4 05:33:14 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:33:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] German/Spanish variant on the Nigerian scam Message-ID: Linkers No doubt somewhere along the line they will want access to my bank account to "deposit" the money :-) Tony << start of forwarded material >> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:55:51 -0700 (PDT) From: don pedro klinsman Subject: YOU ARE A WINNER To: elgodon_lottery@yahoo.com EL GORDO SWEEPSTAKE LOTTERY COMPANY S.L No. 13 Herman Street Berlin, Germany. TEL: 491603032192 FROM: VICE PRESIDENT INTERNATIONALPROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPT. REF NO: EGS/2551256003/01BATCH NO: 14/0017/IPDDATE:19TH September, 2002. RE: AWARD NOTIFICATION, FINAL NOTICE We are pleased to inform you of the results of the EL GORDO SPANISH SWEEPSTAKE LOTTERY / INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM held on the 14th July 2002. Your name attached to ticket number 025-11464992 ñ 750 with serial number 2113-05 drew the lucky numbers 4-18-24-30-31-35, which consequently won the lotteryinthe 3rd category. You have therefore being approved for a lump sum payment of US$315,810.00 (THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND TEN US DOLLARS ONLY) in cash credited to file REF NO: EGS/255125003/01. This is from a total cash prize of US$8,368,770.00 (EIGHT MILLION THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY EIGHT THOUSAND, SEVEN HUNDRED AND SEVENTY US DOLLARS ONLY) shared among the seventeen international winners in thiscategory.Congratulations!!! Your fund is now deposited with a security company insured to your name. Due to the mix up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award from public notice until your claim has been processed and your money remitted to your nominated account as this is a part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming or unwarranted taking advantage ofthisprogram by participants. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from 25,000 names from Asia, Australia, Middle East, New Zealand, Europe and North America as part of our international promotions program, which we conduct once every year. We hope that with a part of your prize, you will tale part in our end of the year high stake US$4.3 Billioninternational lottery. To commence your lottery claim please contact your claims agent DON ALVADO FERNANDEZ foreign services manager OCASO GRUPO SECURIDAD S.A. on TEL: 491603032192 for the processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice. Remember, all prize money must be claimed not later than 30TH OCTOBER 2002. After this date all funds will be returned to the MINISTERIO DE ECONOMIAYHACIENDA as unclaimed. NOTE: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications, please remember to quote your reference and batch numbers in every correspondence with your agent or us. Furthermore, should there be any change of your address, do inform your claims agent as soonaspossible. Congratulations again from all members of our staff and thank you for being a part of ourpromotionsprogram.Sincerely, DON. PEDRO KLINSMAN.* Do contact us as soon as you receive this fax to enable us send to you your prize claim certificate.Call the number above or reply to donpedro_elgodon@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com << end of forwarded material >> -- -- phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Fri Oct 4 06:16:32 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:16:32 +1000 Subject: [LINK] German/Spanish variant on the Nigerian scam References: Message-ID: <3D9D3240.F2DEA6EF@praxis.com.au> Tony Barry wrote: > No doubt somewhere along the line they will want access to my bank > account to "deposit" the money :-) Surely if someone else has my bank account number, they can only deposit funds to the account / certainly not withdraw funds. I don't believe the Nigerian scam involved the surreptitious emptying of the victim's bank account. More along the lines of: (1) send us some money to help clear the funds, to cover costs (we are penniless here in Nigeria right now - everything is frozen) (2) more of same; then some delaying tactics (3) finally, convince the victim to fly to Nigeria and meet them under the guise of completing the transaction; the victim is then robbed and dumped It is amazing enough that victims have proceeded to step (2) and lost $100,000's ... and more so that some have found themselves at step (3). Now, with this Lotto Scam, what is the angle? Most likely something along the lines of (1) and (2) above. Perhaps (3) if you are really gullible. Anyone care to setup a bank account with $1.00 in it and proceed to step (1) with the Lotto Scam to find out how it operates? cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Fri Oct 4 07:29:00 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:29:00 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote: > > In the last hour I've received 14 emails from strangers (well, I thought > they were strangers, how come my address is in their contact list?) with > the bugbear virus attached (some are repeats, two are in ?Polish?). > I don't recall seeing something so virulent before. It's like Klez, the common thread is that your address and the From: address are in the address book of a, probably known to you but unidentifiable, 3rd party that is infected. That doesn't mean to say that you know the From: address. Watch Bugbear, it installs keypress scanners and emails trapped keypresses out using its own email engine. It also sets up to listen on a port so that the machine can be accessed. It really is a nasty, and very virulent, piece of work. I am currently getting about 100 warnings a day from my client's site where I have email scanning software on their mail servers. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Fri Oct 4 07:34:07 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:34:07 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra In-Reply-To: <3D9D08F2.F4DD89B1@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote: > Frank O'Connor wrote: > > > The network server performance seems to be getting more reliable, and > > the service has been pretty good for the last month or two (I don't > > really care whether or not I can access Telstra's Web site when its > > Web servers fall over, and Telstra seems to be going for a Sun-One > > solution to address this continuing reliability problem) ... touch > > wood. :) > > Perhaps Balmer's visit to Telstra will be too little too late, if Telstra > have recognised server reliability problems and are already fixing them > with alternative OS implementations. >From what I heard, Telstra were only looking for an M$ Office replacement and were considering Wordperfect. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mgm-ns@tardis.net Fri Oct 4 10:11:22 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:11:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000, you wrote: >Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on their PCs for >years, one wonders when > >(a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths through its > buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and for all these > malicious attacks; Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this security hole. -- Best wishes, Malcolm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Fri Oct 4 11:36:41 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 21:36:41 +1000 Subject: [LINK] German/Spanish variant on the Nigerian scam In-Reply-To: <3D9D3240.F2DEA6EF@praxis.com.au> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021004213346.0647c030@pop> > > No doubt somewhere along the line they will want access to my bank > > account to "deposit" the money :-) > >Surely if someone else has my bank account number, they can only deposit >funds to the account / certainly not withdraw funds. > >I don't believe the Nigerian scam involved the surreptitious emptying >of the victim's bank account. More along the lines of: Unfortunately some countries can send a TT request for payment without a hand signature and the banks just pay it out in the daily batch process. Australian Banks are suppose to be safeguarding this, but apparently it only applies to amounts over $10,000 that are reported to Austrack. >(1) send us some money to help clear the funds, to cover costs (we are > penniless here in Nigeria right now - everything is frozen) That happens in some cases. Mostly the elderly and most seriously gullible. >(3) finally, convince the victim to fly to Nigeria and meet them under > the guise of completing the transaction; the victim is then robbed > and dumped Rare. Most tend to do the flight out much earlier, which if you think about it is odd. Paying $2000+ for an airline ticket but only needing, ohh say $2000+ for the release :) >Now, with this Lotto Scam, what is the angle? Most likely something >along the lines of (1) and (2) above. Perhaps (3) if you are really gullible. Actually it's not so new. I use to get letters all the time from over seas telling me I had won awards. Tracking the companies down on the Internet as it was in the early 1990s was rather rewarding. Most didn't exist and were easily identified as a scam. >Anyone care to setup a bank account with $1.00 in it and proceed to step >(1) with the Lotto Scam to find out how it operates? Why not just get the account number for Telstra and send it over :) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Fri Oct 4 13:52:21 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:52:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Malcolm Miles wrote: > On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000, you wrote: > > >Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on their PCs for > >years, one wonders when > > > >(a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths through its > > buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and for all these > > malicious attacks; > > Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and > klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this > security hole. Which goes back to what I said in an earlier post; most (principally domestic) users do not bother upgrade their systems until such time as they replace them. Haven't you noticed the rise in virus emails between Fri evening and Sun evening. It doesn't take rocket science to work it out; most virii are on domestic machines, not corprate machines. Do not give the proles PCs :) > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From frank.kamara@caramail.com Fri Oct 4 17:10:51 2002 From: frank.kamara@caramail.com (Frank Kamara) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:10:51 GMT+1 Subject: [LINK] URGENT ASSISTANCE PLEASE Message-ID: <1033744251015293@caramail.com> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment ASYLUM CAMP ABIDJAN FROM:FRANK KAMARA TEL:00 225 07716816 ATTN: Presdent/CEO CONFIDENTIAL I am FRANK KAMARA the only son of late former Director of finance,Chief VINCENT R. KAMARA Sierra-Leone diamond and mining corporation. I must confess my agitation is real, and my words is my bond, in this proposal. My late father diverted this money meant for purchase of ammunition, for my country, during the peak of disastrous civil war in my country, now he has deposited the money with a BANK here in Abidjan, where I am residing under political asylum with my younger sister Mary . Now the war in my country is over with the help of ECOMOG soldiers, the present government of Sierra Leone has revoked the passport of all officers who served under the former regime and now ask countries to expel such person at the same time freeze their account and confiscate their assets, it is on this note that I am contacting you, all I need from you is to furnish me with your bank particulars: 1) Account name 2) Account number 3) Bank address, telephone and fax number For you to assist me transfer this money in your private bank account, the said amount is (fifteen Million Dollars) $15Million. I am compensating you with 20% of the total amount. Now all my hope is banked on you and I really want to invest this money in your country, were their is stability of Government, political and economic welfare. Honestly I want you to believe that this transaction is real and never a joke. My late father Chief VINCENT R.KAMARA gave me the photocopies of the certificate of deposit issued to him by the BANK on the date of deposit, for you to be clarify because, I do not expose my self to anybody I see, I believe that you are able to keep this transaction secret for me because this money is the hope of my life, it is important. Please call me immediately after you must have gone through my message.Feel free and make it urgent. Please try and negotiate for me some profitable blue chip investment opportunities which is risky free which I can invest with this money when it is transferred to your account, personally I am interested in estate management and hotel business, please advise me. Thanks and God bless Best regards FRANK KAMARA. _________________________________________________________ Envoyez des messages musicaux sur le portable de vos amis http://mobile.lycos.fr/mobile/local/sms_musicaux/ ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From listmail2@karmanaut.com Fri Oct 4 15:11:08 2002 From: listmail2@karmanaut.com (Viveka) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 01:11:08 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: At 8:11 PM +1000 4/10/02, Malcolm Miles wrote: >On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000, you wrote: > >>Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on >>their PCs for >>years, one wonders when >> >>(a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths through its >> buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and >>for all these >> malicious attacks; > >Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and >klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this >security hole. That's good (although clearly many people are using old software, given how many copies of this virus I'm being sent every day now), and it's evidence for the argument that it's not incompetence on the part of MS that causes all these MS viruses. So if it's not incompetence, what is it? One argument is that it's a larger problem - monocultures are just bad evolutionary strategy, in technology just like life. Some supporting evidence for this hypothesis is that if you remove a link in the MS-monoculture chain, for example by deleting Outlook or IE, virus resistance improves. Unfortunately, some useful applications rely on the monoculture as well... in evolution, i believe this is called overspecialisation. An argument against the monoculture theory is the Mac. I've been working with Macs since 1991, and have yet to see a single virus on a Mac in the wild. I have met people who claim to have seen one, but no-one who's ever lost any data to one. The Mac OS is a very standardised and homogenous environment. Or is it? Until OS X, there was no standard mailer for Mac; people used all kinds of things. Probably Eudora mostly, but also Claris Email, Mailsmith, Netscape Mail, Green... Since email is the major vector for viruses these days, perhaps we can blame the whole thing on Outlook. And maybe now that Macs come with Mail.app built in, we'll start seeing Mail.app viruses. There is an argument that there are practically no Mac viruses because there are no Mac developers, of any kind of software. This doesn't quite hold up; Mac market share is minute compared to Windows, but there is still *a lot* of Mac software available. Every application category is covered, except viruses. Perhaps it's a boundary condition - there's some kind of critical mass of users, after which the Mac platform will be suddenly flooded with viruses too. This could be tested thus: 1. Find out when the number of wild viruses on Windows reached 10 2. How many Windows users were there then? 3. Wait until there are ten Mac viruses. Write a couple if necessary ;) 4. How many Mac users are there at that point? Anyone feel like a googlefest? V. -- Viveka Weiley, Karmanaut. { http://www.karmanaut.com | http://www.planet-earth.org http://www.MacWeb3D.org | http://sydney.siggraph.org.au } Hypermedia, virtual worlds, human interface, truth, beauty. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Fri Oct 4 16:47:15 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:47:15 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Malcolm, Do you have any idea: 1. How many patches and service packs MS has released this year? 2. How aware the AVERAGE user is of same, and how much the AVERAGE user likes keeping up with same? 3. The limited amount of bandwidth that the AVERAGE user has on the Net, and the amount of time it would take them to find and download each and every update in 2002 that was pertinent to them. 4. How many users eventually turn off the auto-update 'feature' in various versions of MS Windows and other software because it is consuming inordinate amounts of the above-mentioned bandwidth and their valuable time on the Net? The bottom line is that when on the Net people tend to have a view that it is not just for updating software. They want to check out little number slike news, sport and entertainment. They want to check out what's for sale and where. They want to use e-mail or peruse newsgroups. They want to do stuff other than spend their precious bandwidth allocation downloading interminable and never-ending MS software updates, bug-fixes and service packs. In short ... they want computing without the aggravation. But they're not getting it. Excusing MS because it has made something like 60 bug fixes and Service Packs available in the last 9 months is not what I'd call the winning position of all time. :) Excusing MS when it has now flatly said it will no longer support older software for these security, bug fix and Service Packs in the hunt for more license monies isn't what I'd call very tactful. A little more in-depth consideration before replies are bulleted off may be in order. :) Regards, At 8:11 PM +1000 4/10/2002, Malcolm Miles wrote: >On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000, you wrote: > >>Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on >>their PCs for >>years, one wonders when >> >>(a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths through its >> buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and >>for all these >> malicious attacks; > >Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and >klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this >security hole. > >-- >Best wishes, >Malcolm > >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Fri Oct 4 16:33:46 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:33:46 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Not so, copy below from the Australian from memory. There were other articles on the topic which detailed an extensive purchase of Sun-One server software and a number of Sun utilities and app packages to run from Telstra servers. Regards, ------------- Microsoft boss to woo Telstra Michael Sainsbury OCTOBER 02, 2002 MICROSOFT chief executive Steve Ballmer will fly to Sydney this month in a bid to shore up the software giant's relationship with Telstra, its biggest local customer. The world's biggest software company stands to lose hundreds of millions of dollars in licence fees as Telstra proceeds with a comprehensive review of its information technology systems. With about 45,000 desktops, Telstra is Microsoft's biggest customer in the southern hemisphere. A Microsoft spokeswoman said Mr Ballmer was coming to Australia in the middle of next month for the first time in his capacity as chief executive. She said he would meet customers, partners and staff. "There are a range of companies on the list," she said. Microsoft has come under pressure at Telstra since the appointment of American Jeff Smith as the telecommunications carrier's chief information officer. He recently opted for a deal with Microsoft rival Sun Microsystems to supply systems for Telstra's burgeoning broadband network. That decision is understood to have caused alarm at Microsoft, which is based in Redmond, Washington. Mr Smith has publicly declared himself a huge fan of Sun founder and chief executive Scott McNealy, who made a presentation by video at the announcement of the deal between Sun and Telstra. But Telstra will not be Mr Ballmer's only target during his visit. Microsoft has upset some corporate users with a complicated and expensive new way of licensing its software. Instead of one-off payments for software (which include incremental payments for occasional upgrades), Microsoft is now demanding annual payments. These will increase the long-term cost of software ownership for businesses. Microsoft holds the lion's share of the desktop software market in the business world, as well as for consumers, with its Windows operating system. Its Office applications software suite is also a clear market leader. But options are beginning to emerge that may threaten Microsoft's once unassailable position. For instance, Telstra has said it will consider using the free open-source software Linux, which is gaining popularity. Air New Zealand recently adopted the Linux system. Telstra has also said it will consider replacing Microsoft Office with Sun's Star Office software -- available at less than a fifth of the price Microsoft wants to charge. This has prompted corporations to take a more serious look at the amount of money they spend on IT, and with whom they spend it. Earlier this year, Commonwealth Bank chief David Murray took a swipe at the IT industry, accusing it of over-promising and under-delivering. Mr Murray has taken control of the company's IT strategy, seeing off the architect of its IT infrastructure, Russell Schrimshaw, earlier this year. The bank is now deploying a system called Citrix, which turns desktop computers into so-called "dumb" terminals - a move that will save the company money on software. At 5:34 PM +1000 4/10/2002, Howard Lowndes wrote: >On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote: > >> Frank O'Connor wrote: >> >> > The network server performance seems to be getting more reliable, and >> > the service has been pretty good for the last month or two (I don't >> > really care whether or not I can access Telstra's Web site when its >> > Web servers fall over, and Telstra seems to be going for a Sun-One >> > solution to address this continuing reliability problem) ... touch >> > wood. :) >> >> Perhaps Balmer's visit to Telstra will be too little too late, if Telstra > > have recognised server reliability problems and are already fixing them >> with alternative OS implementations. > >From what I heard, Telstra were only looking for an M$ Office replacement >and were considering Wordperfect. > >-- >Howard. >LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people >Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com >"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me > Get rid of the Australian states. >------------------------------------------ >If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/f04005e1/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From stephen@melbpc.org.au Fri Oct 4 17:26:09 2002 From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:26:09 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Creating a Global Knowledge Network Message-ID: Hi all .. It would be difficult to disagree regarding: http://arxiv.org/ -- Creating a Global Knowledge Network Paul Ginsparg Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, NM Invited contribution for Conference, UNESCO HQ, Paris, (snip) The possibilities offered by a "unified global archive" are suggested by the e-print arXiv (where "e-print" denotes self-archiving by the author), which since its inception in 1991 has become a major forum for dissemination of results in physics and mathematics. (http://arxiv.org/) (http://au.arxiv.org/) This resource has been entirely scientist driven, and is flexible enough either to co-exist with the pre-existing publication system, or to help it evolve to something better optimized for researcher needs. The arXiv is an example of a service created by a group of specialists for their own use: when researchers or professionals create such services, the results often differ markedly from the services provided by publishers and libraries. It is also important to note that the rapid dissemination it provides is not in the least inconsistent with concurrent or post facto peer review, and in the long run offers a possible framework for a more functional archival structuring of the literature than is provided by current peer review processes. As argued by Odlyzko, the current methodology of research dissemination and validation is premised on a paper medium that was difficult to produce, difficult to distribute, difficult to archive, and difficult to duplicate -- a medium that hence required numerous local redistribution points in the form of research libraries. The electronic medium is opposite in each of the above regards ... (http://arxiv.org/blurb/pg01unesco.html) -- Cheers all .. Stephen Loosley Melbourne, Australia ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Fri Oct 4 22:15:22 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 08:15:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> Ultimately, Frank, 'Don't use Outlook' is more convenient, safer and cheaper than 'keep up with the patches on a 56k modem when the patch uses up about 20% of your monthly bandwidth allowance'. Work it out: 60 patches in ten months. Six patches per month. In other words, it's feasible for an ordinary user to consume his/her entire download allowance just maintaining functionality - not actually doing anything. What utter B.S. - it's much easier to use Netscape Messenger, and my download allowance can be used on porn and gambling, just like Sen Alston says it is! (Sorry, that's Korea). RC -----Original Message----- From: Frank O'Connor To: Malcolm Miles Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au Sent: 10/5/02 2:47 AM Subject: Re: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear Hi Malcolm, Do you have any idea: 1. How many patches and service packs MS has released this year? 2. How aware the AVERAGE user is of same, and how much the AVERAGE user likes keeping up with same? 3. The limited amount of bandwidth that the AVERAGE user has on the Net, and the amount of time it would take them to find and download each and every update in 2002 that was pertinent to them. 4. How many users eventually turn off the auto-update 'feature' in various versions of MS Windows and other software because it is consuming inordinate amounts of the above-mentioned bandwidth and their valuable time on the Net? The bottom line is that when on the Net people tend to have a view that it is not just for updating software. They want to check out little number slike news, sport and entertainment. They want to check out what's for sale and where. They want to use e-mail or peruse newsgroups. They want to do stuff other than spend their precious bandwidth allocation downloading interminable and never-ending MS software updates, bug-fixes and service packs. In short ... they want computing without the aggravation. But they're not getting it. Excusing MS because it has made something like 60 bug fixes and Service Packs available in the last 9 months is not what I'd call the winning position of all time. :) Excusing MS when it has now flatly said it will no longer support older software for these security, bug fix and Service Packs in the hunt for more license monies isn't what I'd call very tactful. A little more in-depth consideration before replies are bulleted off may be in order. :) Regards, At 8:11 PM +1000 4/10/2002, Malcolm Miles wrote: >On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000, you wrote: > >>Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on >>their PCs for >>years, one wonders when >> >>(a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths through its >> buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and >>for all these >> malicious attacks; > >Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and >klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this >security hole. > >-- >Best wishes, >Malcolm > >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Fri Oct 4 23:16:45 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 09:16:45 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021005091217.060490b0@pop> > > Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and > > klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this > > security hole. > >Which goes back to what I said in an earlier post; most (principally >domestic) users do not bother upgrade their systems until such time as >they replace them. Earlier posts? I think this statement pops up every time a virus arises. >Haven't you noticed the rise in virus emails between Fri evening and Sun >evening. It doesn't take rocket science to work it out; most virii are on >domestic machines, not corprate machines. I had 600+ Bugbear attachments in my virtual domain box yesterday. Most came from domestic users. I have copies of peoples medical documents, Optus invoices, Telstra correspondence (and boy is that stuff hot!), legal letters between disputed parties, plots and plans between people involved in family law cases, child protection report notices, and the list goes on and on and on. Of course I've been deleting the virus, but the info is a good read! Strangely enough most of it came into an address accounts@iconoclast.inoz.com which of course doesn't exist. (And now points to a non-existent address so it rejects totally.) >Do not give the proles PCs :) I'd say "Oh for the love of God" but I'll refrain and say "But what about this months sales!" ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dlochrin@dot.net.au Sat Oct 5 00:05:55 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:05:55 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021005091217.060490b0@pop> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021005100555.007928f0@mail.dot.net.au> At 09:16 AM 05-10-2002 +1000, Adam Todd wrote: >I had 600+ Bugbear attachments in my virtual domain box yesterday. Most >came from domestic users. I have copies of peoples medical documents, >Optus invoices, Telstra correspondence (and boy is that stuff hot!), legal >letters between disputed parties, plots and plans between people involved >in family law cases, child protection report notices, and the list goes on >and on and on. Six hundred....? This demonstrates a point I have been preaching for a long time - confidential information should never be emailed in plain text, and very confidential information (lists of the interminable passwords, PIN numbers, et cetera that we're afflicted with now) should not even be saved in plain-text files. Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) provides a convenient way of encrypting and signing emails and files, and it costs nothing. When Phil Zimmerman, the creator of PGP, left Network Associates, he wrote: "Let me assure all PGP users that all versions of PGP produced by NAI, and PGP Security, a division of NAI, up to and including the current (January 2001) release, PGP 7.0.3, are free of back doors. In all previous releases, up through PGP 6.5.8, this has been proven by the release of complete source code for public peer review. New senior management assumed control of PGP Security in the final months of 2000, and decided to reduce how much PGP source code they would publish. If NAI ever publishes the complete PGP 7.0.3 source code, I am confident that the public will be able to see that there are still no back doors. Until that time, I can offer only my own assurances that this version of PGP was developed on my watch, and has no back doors. In fact, I believe it to be the most secure version of PGP produced to date. In other words, not even the three-letter agencies have back doors in V6.5.8 (though they may well have them in your Microsoft Windows O/S and in some MS Windows applications). David Lochrin ================================================= David Lochrin +61 2 9363 1094 PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Fri Oct 4 22:49:54 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:49:54 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021005084813.027c6900@pop.primenet.com> At 11:21 AM 4/10/02 +1000, bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote: >In the last hour I've received 14 emails from strangers (well, I thought >they were strangers, how come my address is in their contact list?) with >the bugbear virus attached (some are repeats, two are in ?Polish?). >I don't recall seeing something so virulent before. symantec has a small fixit program [fxbgbear.exe] on their site and VET has an Oct 2 data file that will fix it up as well. I just spent yesterday sorting out a friend's computer [with a little phone help from her support person since I don't use VET myself]. VET only requires a scan of the Windows directory to fix things. yes, it's been raised to a cat 4 at Symantec. Brenda said: >isnt it related to the 1 degree of separation argument? I have noticed >that all bugbear emails are between 69-71kb so now I just look at the size >of the email as an additional clue as to their parentage. They show up in my shell account with audio file identification for some reason, similar to Klez. Re parentage, try explaining that to a non-tech person. You see, the worm [I told her her computer had worms, just to be funny] finds addresses you have anywhere in your messages and fakes the message to someone else on your address book and sends it with its own mail program so you don't even see it in your outbox ....... I don't think my friend ever did understand as she kept saying, does Anne have the virus [since Anne's name was the one that had been chosen for from: --- as well as mine! harumph!] Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Fri Oct 4 23:42:12 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 09:42:12 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ADSL not up to scratch - Telstra In-Reply-To: References: <3D9D08F2.F4DD89B1@praxis.com.au> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE06@EXCHANGE_AU> <3D9D08F2.F4DD89B1@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021005094136.02142ec0@pop.primenet.com> At 02:28 PM 4/10/02 +1000, Frank O'Connor wrote: >SB: "OK ... we'll offer you 50% off all licensing, a support agreement you >wouldn't believe, access to all server software necessary to make it work >without cost ... and I'll pay for this lunch." >TE: "Sold. It's great to be back in MS's capable hands." I reckon that needs to be published somewhere, or at least be rendered by Brian Dawes and John Clark for an IT conference at some stage!! Well done, Frank! Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Sat Oct 5 00:04:25 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:04:25 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021005100304.027b5370@pop.primenet.com> At 02:47 AM 5/10/02 +1000, Frank O'Connor wrote: >2. How aware the AVERAGE user is of same, and how much the AVERAGE user >likes keeping up with same? Actually, I was impressed by said friend with the virus who updates the MS software as she is reminded to and still got the bugbear infection, but who didn't have auto update of her virus software because she thought the MS updates did that as well, or at least couldn't make the distinction between the two. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Sat Oct 5 00:08:20 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:08:20 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <3D9E2D74.F13728BF@praxis.com.au> Malcolm Miles wrote: > > On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000, you wrote: > > >Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on their PCs for > >years, one wonders when > > > >(a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths through its > > buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and for all these > > malicious attacks; > > Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and > klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this > security hole. Fixing holes in the O/S for each and every virus that comes out is ar**-backwards. There are over 50,000 virus and worm exploits for the Windows platform. AND, as we all know, there are literally hundreds of millions of unpatched PC's out there. As a matter of fact, some of the older virii are now doing the rounds again, and will continue to do so as long as there are unpatched Windows boxes in the wild. Re-read my comment: MS must "close off the myriad and multiple paths" ... meaning that the tight integration of the browser, HTML rendering, active scripting, email components and networking must be broken for these viruses to be rendered ineffective. One of the (many) reasons virii are not as virulent or prevelant on Unices and Macs is that this tight coupling was *never* allowed in the O/S design, for very good reason. (There are many many more reasons virii are not a problem on non-Windows boxes, but that would take up too much time and space to explain). Malcolm, as a constant apologist for Microsoft on this list, I wonder if you do consulting work for the Windows platform. The short-sightedness of the your remark above would tend to make one think this is the case. Do you have an MCSE? cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Sat Oct 5 00:27:31 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:27:31 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Strange response to Y2K Message-ID: <3D9E31F3.F20B6015@praxis.com.au> This has to be the strangest response I've come across to Y2K: Senate candidate blue -- literally GREAT FALLS, Montana (AP) -- Montana's Libertarian candidate for Senate has turned blue from drinking a silver solution that he believed would protect him from disease. Stan Jones,a 63-year-old business consultant and part-time college instructor, said he started taking colloidal silver in 1999 for fear that Y2K disruptions might lead to a shortage of antibiotics. He made his own concoction by electrically charging a couple of silver wires in a glass of water. His skin began turning blue-gray a year ago. ... cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services That that is is that that is not is not. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Sat Oct 5 01:03:12 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 11:03:12 +1000 Subject: [LINK] E-Learning Age section Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021005110230.0236bb20@pop.primenet.com> Looks like the Age has one journalist assigned to e-learning articles, Eric Wilson. Eric, are you a linker by any chance? Check out: http://www.theage.com.au/technology/opinion/intraining/index.html Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mgm-ns@tardis.net Sat Oct 5 02:07:37 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:07:37 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 08:15:22 +1000 , you wrote: >Ultimately, Frank, 'Don't use Outlook' is more convenient, safer and cheaper >than 'keep up with the patches on a 56k modem when the patch uses up about >20% of your monthly bandwidth allowance'. > >Work it out: 60 patches in ten months. Six patches per month. There have been 6 cumulative security updates for IE in the last 12 months, not 60. No patches for Outlook itself, all the holes have been in the use of IE to render HTML messages. -- Best wishes, Malcolm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mgm-ns@tardis.net Sat Oct 5 02:19:51 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:19:51 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 02:47:15 +1000, you wrote: >1. How many patches and service packs MS has released this year? No patches for Outlook. Six cumulative patches for IE. One Office service pack and one IE service pack. >2. How aware the AVERAGE user is of same, and how much the AVERAGE >user likes keeping up with same? I would guess that the average home user is not at all aware of releases of security updates or service packs. If they are running a MS o/s that supports auto-update they may have some awareness of updates being available and they may have even downloaded them. >3. The limited amount of bandwidth that the AVERAGE user has on the >Net, and the amount of time it would take them to find and download >each and every update in 2002 that was pertinent to them. If they are running auto-update they have no need to go out and find and manually download them. Without auto-update the average user would not even go looking. >4. How many users eventually turn off the auto-update 'feature' in >various versions of MS Windows and other software because it is >consuming inordinate amounts of the above-mentioned bandwidth and >their valuable time on the Net? I have no idea, although I would guess that the average user does not disable it. It is supposed to only run in the background when the PC is idle and there is no net traffic. >The bottom line is that when on the Net people tend to have a view >that it is not just for updating software. They want to check out >little number slike news, sport and entertainment. People use their cars for shopping, entertainment, socializing. They don't want to put them in for regular service but they know it is necessary. Perhaps people need to get their PC regularly serviced every quarter, (service packs installed, defragged, check that the anti-virus is running etc). >Excusing MS because it has made something like 60 bug fixes and >Service Packs available in the last 9 months is not what I'd call the >winning position of all time. :) I am not excusing MS at all. I have to support their s/w every day. -- Best wishes, Malcolm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mgm-ns@tardis.net Sat Oct 5 02:22:14 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:22:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021005100304.027b5370@pop.primenet.com> References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.20021005100304.027b5370@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:04:25 +1000, you wrote: >Actually, I was impressed by said friend with the virus who updates the MS >software as she is reminded to and still got the bugbear infection, If she has been updating her MS software then she shouldn't have been infected by Bugbear. It takes advantage of an IE security hole for which a patch was originally released in May 2001. -- Best wishes, Malcolm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mgm-ns@tardis.net Sat Oct 5 02:33:14 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:33:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <3D9E2D74.F13728BF@praxis.com.au> References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> <3D9E2D74.F13728BF@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:08:20 +1000, you wrote: >> Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and >> klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this >> security hole. > >Fixing holes in the O/S for each and every virus that comes out is ar**-backwards. I totally agree. But given that the holes are currently there, there is little else Microsoft can do for software that is already out there. >There are over 50,000 virus and worm exploits for the Windows platform. And the majority of them take advantage of just one or two holes in IE. Getting users to fix those few holes would substantially reduce the amount of infection. >AND, as >we all know, there are literally hundreds of millions of unpatched PC's out there. >As a matter of fact, some of the older virii are now doing the rounds again, and >will continue to do so as long as there are unpatched Windows boxes in the wild. So what is the solution to patching all the boxes? Users won't actively go out and patch their boxes, auto-update seems to work well but a number of people have concerns about its misuse by Microsoft. Perhaps vendors and users need to acknowledge that PCs are complex devices and need to be regularly serviced. Just as Jims Mowing comes in every few months to mow your lawns and weed your garden, and we take our cars in for regular service, perhaps we need to instil a culture where we get our PCs regularly serviced (service packs installed, defragged, checks that the anti-virus us functioning etc). >Malcolm, as a constant apologist for Microsoft on this list, I wonder if you do >consulting work for the Windows platform. The short-sightedness of the your remark >above would tend to make one think this is the case. Do you have an MCSE? I provide high-level PC support in a large Australian company. I do not have an MCSE. -- Best wishes, Malcolm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Sat Oct 5 02:33:52 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 12:33:52 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021005084813.027c6900@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Re parentage, try explaining that to a non-tech person. You see, the worm > [I told her her computer had worms, just to be funny] finds addresses you > have anywhere in your messages and fakes the message to someone else on > your address book and sends it with its own mail program so you don't even > see it in your outbox ....... I don't think my friend ever did > understand as she kept saying, does Anne have the virus [since Anne's name > was the one that had been chosen for from: --- as well as mine! harumph!] This is a good point. Ppl believe what they read in headers. Until you actually demo sending a totally spoofed email to someone, esp by directly connecting to an MTA somewhere, they really have no comprehension of the situation. Then they go on to ask "Well, why isn't it being fixed?" Try explaining to them that the whole email concept was originally built on mutual trust. :( -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Sat Oct 5 02:37:03 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 12:37:03 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Strange response to Y2K In-Reply-To: <3D9E31F3.F20B6015@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: I wonder if this will ultimately be a candidate for a Darwin Award :) On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote: > This has to be the strangest response I've come across to Y2K: > > > > Senate candidate blue -- literally > > GREAT FALLS, Montana (AP) -- > Montana's Libertarian candidate for > Senate has turned blue from drinking a > silver solution that he believed would > protect him from disease. > > Stan Jones,a 63-year-old business consultant and > part-time college instructor, said he started taking > colloidal silver in 1999 for fear that Y2K disruptions > might lead to a shortage of antibiotics. > > He made his own concoction by electrically charging a > couple of silver wires in a glass of water. > > His skin began turning blue-gray a year ago. > > ... > > > cheers > rickw > > > > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Sat Oct 5 03:13:55 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:13:55 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> <3D9E2D74.F13728BF@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <3D9E58F3.EC81DBA8@praxis.com.au> Malcolm Miles wrote: > So what is the solution to patching all the boxes? Users won't > actively go out and patch their boxes, auto-update seems to work well > but a number of people have concerns about its misuse by Microsoft. The cat is already out of the proverbial bag, and Microsoft should be taking full responsibility for it. So far, they've taken none. If they released an auto-update that decoupled all the integrated pieces of Windows that allow all these exploits to occur, they would gain some credibility in taking responsibility for this mess. Regarding auto-update, I have anecdotal evidence that Win-XP auto-update has crippled a friend's machine so badly that he is now dumping XP and switching to Linux. Apparently, the auto-update feature informed him his licence was invalid, and shortly afterwards, his IP address was corrupted, dialup networking started to flake out and the machine would crash at the drop of a hat. For the record, Linux has various forms of auto-update, and I eschew the use of any of them. Software updating is far to complex an operation to allow a piece of software to do it automatically. Too many interdepencies in a complex system cause things to break when careful consideration is not given to the process. > Perhaps vendors and users need to acknowledge that PCs are complex > devices and need to be regularly serviced. Just as Jims Mowing comes > in every few months to mow your lawns and weed your garden, and we > take our cars in for regular service, perhaps we need to instil a > culture where we get our PCs regularly serviced (service packs > installed, defragged, checks that the anti-virus us functioning etc). If only. That could go a long way towards stopping a lot of the mess. Users should be educated that PCs are far too complex to be treated as simple consumer appliances like TVs and stereo systems. They are very powerful general purpose computing devices that can wreak havoc on their own and other's data. IMHO, the underlying operating system should be written as far as is practical with security, stability and interoperable standards as the top priorities. It seems quite clear that the average computer user needs to be protected as much as possible from malicious intrusion, as a top priority. If I had my druthers, the typical consumer PC would be dumbed down to a secure imbedded operating system with a few basic tools bundled with it, which would provide the required functionality for 99% of the users out there. Think bullet-proof email reader, web browser, office suite and that's that. In their current state, most Windows machines are easy targets for malicious invaders that very easily can turn the box into a voracious cyber weapon that attacks countless other machines connected to the Interent without the operator even being aware of it. The economic consequences of this state of affairs is probably inestimable. cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should be changed regularly and for the same reason. -- Gerry Brooks (in the Toronto Globe & Mail) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rw@firstpr.com.au Sat Oct 5 03:52:42 2002 From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:52:42 +1000 Subject: [LINK] 90 MS viruses - 12 Megs - a week Message-ID: <3D9E620A.7BE42E5B@firstpr.com.au> I have received 90 virus / worm emails in the last 7 days - comprising 12 Megabytes. A few of these are notifications of failed delivery of messages sent with my email address. These are costing me at least $10 a month in bandwidth and probably more after protocol overheads. I would like to doctor my Postfix mail server to make it refuse to accept messages with the most common viral attachments, since this cost adds up over the year. However, from reading: http://www.postfix.org/docs.html http://www.mengwong.com/misc/postfix-uce-guide.txt I get the impression it would take me hours to sort out and would not actually reject the viral emails soon enough to stop the whole message arriving. These are primarily viruses which rely on MS software insecurities which I think are not just bugs, but deliberate "automatic" "features" such as passing an attachment which claims to be MIME type .WAV to the Media Player, but which is actually an .exe, which Media Player then automatically executes. Some involve asking the user to click on an executable programs which is a screen saver - so this is not a specific MS software problem. Really, all email software should make it nearly impossible to run any executable attachment. A favourite approach in the past would be to have the attachment "PRETTY-GIRL.JPG.exe" with the default Windows behaviour with Outlook (Express) to hide the ".exe" so giving the hapless user no way or recognising the difference between a graphics file and a virus executable. I use Netscape 4.77 for email and for browsing unless a site doesn't work with it - then I use Mozilla. I don't click dodgy-looking attachments, but most of these messages do not rely on that - they have no visible attachment under Netscape and I think they infect unpatched MS Outlook (Express) simply by the email being viewed - with no user interaction or possibility of preventing this. I do not run anti-virus software, though I did run it a while ago and found no virus infections at all. I would know it if my machines were infected - I have LEDs driven by the modem lights on my desk here. I have never had a virus on my Windows machines and I get tired of trying to tell people that MS email and browser software is really insecure. I agree that the PC and security matters are too complex and important to be left to ordinary users - so they should take theirs in somewhere for advice on how to keep it safe and reliable, just as with cars, our bodies etc. I wish I could say that Mozilla's email system was better, but it lacks a spellchecker (Netscape 8 has one) and there are still some unresolved usability and corruption bugs: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35389 Double click onto a folder and the original folder also changes. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141983 Space added to indented line when sending or saving message Also, in Netscape 4.77, I can easily dump one or more selected messages to the Spam or Virii mailboxes with "Alt M 0 2" or "Alt M 0 3". Mozilla / Netscape 8 has no such numeric short cuts, so excessive, stressful, time-consuming cursor movement would be required. The alternative is to simply delete them, but that means I need to be more careful about the process than I currently am. Probably I should set up my Courier Maildrop filtering to detect the obvious virus / worm emails and most of the spam by one of the recently developed systems. - Robin ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dlochrin@dot.net.au Sat Oct 5 04:06:14 2002 From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 14:06:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <3D9E58F3.EC81DBA8@praxis.com.au> References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> <3D9E2D74.F13728BF@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20021005140614.00792640@mail.dot.net.au> At 01:13 PM 05-10-2002 +1000, Rick Welykochy wrote: >Malcolm Miles wrote: >> Perhaps vendors and users need to acknowledge that PCs are complex >> devices and need to be regularly serviced. Just as Jims Mowing comes >> in every few months to mow your lawns and weed your garden, and we >> take our cars in for regular service, perhaps we need to instil a >> culture where we get our PCs regularly serviced (service packs >> installed, defragged, checks that the anti-virus us functioning etc). > >If only. That could go a long way towards stopping a lot of the mess. > >Users should be educated that PCs are far too complex to be treated as >simple consumer appliances like TVs and stereo systems. [...] Excuse me, but appliances such as TVs are not simple! The problem IMO is not the ~inherent~ complexity of the O/S but the speed with which it is being developed as a generator of ongoing consumer revenues for Microsoft, which partly results from the notion that it has to get continually bigger and more functional in order to survive - only by continually shifting the goalposts will customers be pursuaded to trade their old, perfectly usable, PCs for new ones. If complex systems are engineered in a modular fashion, and on the Volkswagen principle of continual marginal improvement, they can be made extremely reliable. As you observed in a previous post: >Re-read my comment: MS must "close off the myriad and multiple paths" ... >meaning that the tight integration of the browser, HTML rendering, active >scripting, email components and networking must be broken for these viruses >to be rendered ineffective. One of the (many) reasons virii are not as >virulent or prevelant on Unices and Macs is that this tight coupling was >*never* allowed in the O/S design, for very good reason. (There are many >many more reasons virii are not a problem on non-Windows boxes, but that >would take up too much time and space to explain). The OpenVMS operating system is, I suppose, at least one order of magnitude more complex than MS Windows but far more reliable. It would be interesting to see a proper study of comparative complexity & reliability. David Lochrin ================================================= David Lochrin +61 2 9363 1094 PGP public key available by mail to: pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net subject: GET David Lochrin ================================================= ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rw@firstpr.com.au Sat Oct 5 04:21:18 2002 From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 14:21:18 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Automatic software updates and Tripwire Message-ID: <3D9E68BE.3FA75B6E@firstpr.com.au> Rick Welykochy wrote: > Linux has various forms of auto-update, and I eschew the use of any of > them. Software updating is far to complex an operation to allow a > piece of software to do it automatically. Too many interdepencies in > a complex system cause things to break when careful consideration is > not given to the process. I run two Red Hat 7.2 machines and use the free update service, one using my real email address and one with another address for a fictitious version of myself. https://rhn.redhat.com Apart from the service recently being too busy for a few days recently to accommodate non-paying users, I have found it to be very good. The paid for cost is USD$60 a year per computer. I had to configure up2date to work with an http proxy server on another machine so all the downloads would all happen via the cable modem. I configured it to update the kernel too. I don't pay too much attention to all the things it updates, unless there is a message about config files being saved, which means I probably need to use the new config file edited to include my specific details. Kernel updates install the new kernel and leave the one or more older versions as non-default options in the the boot screen. I only run up2date when I perceive the need - which is based on me reading RH security emails and deciding when there is something I really need to update. This has its problems - I missed the significance of a fix for an SSL vulnerability in July or so, and consequently did not run up2date for a while . . . and got hacked with the "Linux Slapper" worm. After every run of up2date, I resynch my Tripwire database so the nightly Tripwire run does not complain about the hundreds of new files. Apart from this failing of mine to use it promptly, my experience with Red Hat's up2date program has been very positive. I found that the open-source Linux Tripwire: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tripwire required a lot of work to fine-tune its config file and to wade through the doco, but I am happy with what it does. I have renamed and moved the executable to reduce or eliminate the possibility that a non-human attacker would find and doctor it. It runs every night at sparrow's fart. When I arise I briefly scrutinise an email from each machine showing me how many files have changed or been added in the long list of directories for which it maintains an encrypted database of hashes of the contents. So every morning, if I see the number of files changes has not altered from last time, after accounting for my deliberate changes, then I figure I haven't been hacked! If I was running servers for someone else professionally, I would be more hands-on. This arrangement I have seems to work well for me and I haven't yet run into any gotchas, as I thought I would, from automatic updates. But then, I only run the up2date program when I choose, and I always reboot afterwards. My main machine is not elaborate - basic Apache, with Postfix and Courier IMAP/Maildrop - plus a few special programs which are not seen by the RPM/up2date system. The other machine is a desktop machine with X which I don't actively use except as a repository for nightly backup files. If I was running PHP I would be much more assiduous about versionitis between PHP and its various library files, Apache and the various programs which rely on PHP. I had such trouble a year or two ago trying to set up PHP to run a common Web-mail program (IMP) that I got really jack of PHP in general! However I understand it is very often the best way to do many server-side thingos. - Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au http://fondlyandfirmly.com ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Sat Oct 5 04:21:49 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:21:49 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Malcolm Miles wrote: > People use their cars for shopping, entertainment, socializing. They > don't want to put them in for regular service but they know it is > necessary. Perhaps people need to get their PC regularly serviced > every quarter, (service packs installed, defragged, check that the > anti-virus is running etc). The old days when everyone has "a mate who knows about cars" has gone due mainly to the complexity of modern cars. Perhaps it has been replaced by "a mate who knows about computers", and we now need to make computers more complex rather than less :) -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From chris@sw.oz.au Sat Oct 5 05:59:15 2002 From: chris@sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:59:15 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: ; from Malcolm Miles on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 12:22:14PM +1000 References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.200210051003 <5.0.2.1.0.20021005100304.027b5370@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <20021005155915.A21448@aurema.com> > On Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:04:25 +1000, you wrote: >> Actually, I was impressed by said friend with the virus who updates the MS >> software as she is reminded to and still got the bugbear infection, On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 12:22:14PM +1000, Malcolm Miles wrote: > If she has been updating her MS software then she shouldn't have been > infected by Bugbear. It takes advantage of an IE security hole for > which a patch was originally released in May 2001. Unless, of course, she was fooled into choosing "ok" when Outlook pops up a box inviting you to view the attachment... That's where an up-to-date virus scanner intervenes. So MS may claim to have "fixed" the auto-open problem, but they don't offer any special warnings (unlike Eudora) that opening attachments can be dangerous. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Sat Oct 5 07:37:45 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:37:45 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <3D9CFBA0.A0FD83A5@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: Malcolm, Correct me when I'm wrong here: 1. MS was the one who spent all their time over the last few years integrating all their internet applications with the operating system. 2. MS was the one who at the anti-trust trial categorically stated their browser software could not be removed from the OS. 3. MS is the one who promoted an integrated suite of free Internet applications that they write and they have integrated with their OS. 4. MS is the one who has promoted Win32API, ActiveX and COM ... strangely all the technologies that give rise to these e-mail viruses. 5. Windows is a platform on which there are currently in excess of 60,000 viruses ... not UNIX, not the MacOS, and not any other OS ... which all have demonstrably fewer instances of attack even given their demographics. 6. By and large e-mail viruses take advantage of the 'integrated' Internet applications approach. With MS you don't just get Helpers like you get in other non-MS IP applications ... you get serious cross application connectivity at OS level. 7. Since MS has promoted everyone using their applications to the exclusion of all others, when a script kiddie writes a e-mail virus it's s simple matter to take advantage of this cross application connectivity. It does not take genius level programming skills to write an MS virus ... and there's almost nothing in the way to stop you doing various devastating things. File and directory protection? "Nah, we don't need that ... that's for geeks!". Instruction controls? "Hey, ActiveX is about the free passing of instructions and data between apps, Man" Win32 API ... enough said. 8. Most AVERAGE MS users bought cheap hardware and an OS that will run on it. They generally aren't IT sophisticated and generally bought their package based primarily on cost and the software it would run. 9. Even MS corporate and enterprise users have trouble keeping up with the updates MS makes available on an almost daily basis. 10. MS is the one who has issued 57 security alerts this year. 11. MS is the one who has withdrawn support for all older software of late. 12. e-Mail viruses by their very nature are one-shot attacks. Bottom line, to be successful they have to get out there and do their stuff in a very short time period ... between the user using the Net and the anti-virus package producer producing a new virus definition to wipe the offending little creep. This is why they are so devastating. Now I'm not an MS basher. You've seen many posts from me here where I have defended .NET (I actually like it ... it's JAVA by another name that's not cross platform, but it's also the first stable process efficient mature IP network ready OS I've seen from MS). You've seen situations where I've defended MS on other issues ... the recent share price one for example. But I'm also not an uncritical MS devotee either. The bottom line is MS's security record is abysmal ... admit it. Get over it. It happens. Don't even think about defending MS on this issue. It's an utterly ludicrous and unsustainable position. You might as well try to defend a child molester on the grounds he likes children. They are completely and utterly useless at security. Bill Gates admits it. All Redmond's various technologists admit it. Steve Ballmer admits it in a recent TechWeb interview. What do you think the big change of policy was about ... you know, the 'security first' one 8 months back? Their security sucks. They know it. They admit it. They can face up to it. They've seen the light. The MS auto-update process is flawed ... admit it. The fact that their marketing people are still pushing the integrated one standard MS environment is something their security people will eventually tell them is a no-no. Makes things too easy for the script bunnies and the like. The thing is, if you admire MS ... don't for God's sake admire them for something they're a complete and utter failure at. If a BugBear arises don't spring to their defence like an automated bot. Think about the problem structurally. Yes, today it's BugBear ... but tomorrow it will probably be BugBunny e-mail virus. What's gonna stop BugBunny? Or the next Script Kiddie macro like Melissa, Best Boy or whatever. To me little numbers like breaking the application chain on MS systems are a good start and I said so. I saw no yea or nay comment from you on that. What I did see was an INSTANT jumping to MS's defence telling us that a bug fix had been released months previously (and believe me most of us can read the relevant press releases) and another unsustainable position ... almost as if you've been programmed. That's what I meant by 'consideration'. Consider the bloody problem. Propose serious solutions. Do something about it. Don't simply make excuses and/or by implication blame the millions of affected AVERAGE as well as corporate users. MS has plenty of PR muscle already there to do that. Regards, ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Sat Oct 5 07:55:28 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:55:28 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: Mmmm ... As I said in an earlier post ... I also deliberately break the app chain on the Net, using non-MS mailers and browsers .. and have had no problem at all with e-mail and other viruses. I get the infected e-mails, but they're essentially harmless. And those I've recommended this solution to have been amazed at how many problems went away when they adopted non MS alternative applications. Having a non-standard Windows setup is something I also recommend to people ... as script viruses in particular rely on default setups to do their stuff. Ultimately it comes down to problems of homogeneity, market dominance, and insecure technologies ... although I'd probably class the latter as MS's major problem ... and many threats can be eliminated by a little forethought. With respect to MS, I think Roger Clarke hit it on the head in that article on software producer liability that he mentioned in an earlier post ... and wrote so long ago. Unless and until MS is held legally accountable for losses due to security breaches, they have no reason to plug the gaping security holes in their basic architecture. Regards, At 8:15 AM +1000 5/10/2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: >Ultimately, Frank, 'Don't use Outlook' is more convenient, safer and cheaper >than 'keep up with the patches on a 56k modem when the patch uses up about >20% of your monthly bandwidth allowance'. > >Work it out: 60 patches in ten months. Six patches per month. In other >words, it's feasible for an ordinary user to consume his/her entire download >allowance just maintaining functionality - not actually doing anything. What >utter B.S. - it's much easier to use Netscape Messenger, and my download >allowance can be used on porn and gambling, just like Sen Alston says it is! >(Sorry, that's Korea). > >RC > >-----Original Message----- >From: Frank O'Connor >To: Malcolm Miles >Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au >Sent: 10/5/02 2:47 AM >Subject: Re: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear > >Hi Malcolm, > >Do you have any idea: > >1. How many patches and service packs MS has released this year? > >2. How aware the AVERAGE user is of same, and how much the AVERAGE >user likes keeping up with same? > >3. The limited amount of bandwidth that the AVERAGE user has on the >Net, and the amount of time it would take them to find and download >each and every update in 2002 that was pertinent to them. > >4. How many users eventually turn off the auto-update 'feature' in >various versions of MS Windows and other software because it is >consuming inordinate amounts of the above-mentioned bandwidth and >their valuable time on the Net? > >The bottom line is that when on the Net people tend to have a view >that it is not just for updating software. They want to check out >little number slike news, sport and entertainment. They want to check >out what's for sale and where. They want to use e-mail or peruse >newsgroups. They want to do stuff other than spend their precious >bandwidth allocation downloading interminable and never-ending MS >software updates, bug-fixes and service packs. In short ... they want >computing without the aggravation. > >But they're not getting it. > >Excusing MS because it has made something like 60 bug fixes and >Service Packs available in the last 9 months is not what I'd call the >winning position of all time. :) > >Excusing MS when it has now flatly said it will no longer support >older software for these security, bug fix and Service Packs in the >hunt for more license monies isn't what I'd call very tactful. > >A little more in-depth consideration before replies are bulleted off >may be in order. :) > > Regards, > >At 8:11 PM +1000 4/10/2002, Malcolm Miles wrote: >>On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:23:28 +1000, you wrote: >> >>>Given that Windows users have put up with this badboy behaviour on >>>their PCs for >>>years, one wonders when >>> >>>(a) Microsoft is going to close off the myriad and multiple paths >through its >>> buggy and dangerous operating system in order to stop once and >>>for all these >>> malicious attacks; >> >>Microsoft released a patch for the security hole that both bugbear and >>klez exploit back in May 2001. Current versions of IE do not have this >>security hole. >> >>-- >>Best wishes, >>Malcolm >> >>---------- >>For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From grove@zeta.org.au Sat Oct 5 08:23:42 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:23:42 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Strange response to Y2K In-Reply-To: <3D9E31F3.F20B6015@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote: > This has to be the strangest response I've come across to Y2K: > > Stan Jones,a 63-year-old business consultant and > part-time college instructor, said he started taking > colloidal silver in 1999 for fear that Y2K disruptions > might lead to a shortage of antibiotics. > > He made his own concoction by electrically charging a > couple of silver wires in a glass of water. > > His skin began turning blue-gray a year ago. Does he do ads for Intel, by any chance? :) rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From sales@queenslandcomputer.com.au Sun Oct 6 01:43:42 2002 From: sales@queenslandcomputer.com.au (Special Offers) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:43:42 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Nortons Anti Virus 2003 Offer for October Message-ID: <41195-22002100614342296@hornet> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment =20 Due to an increased rate of submissions, Symantec Security Response has up= graded this threat from a Category 2 to a Category 3 as of September 30, 2= 002=2E This means =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E This is a must read virus warning=2E W32=2EBugbear@mm is a mass-mailing worm=2E It can also spread through Netw= orks=2E It has backdoor capabilities=2E The worm will also attempt to term= inate the processes of various antivirus and firewall programs=2E It is wr= itten in Microsoft Visual C/C++ programming language and compressed with U= PX=2E Also Known As: W32/Bugbear-A [Sophos], WORM_BUGBEAR=2EA [Trend], Win32=2EB= ugbear [CA], W32/Bugbear@MM [McAfee], I-Worm=2ETanatos [AVP], W32/Bugbear = [Panda], Tanatos [F-Secure]=20 Type: Worm=20 Affects: Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Win= dows Me=20 =20 =20 =20 NEW RELEASE!! 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URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/eb0c1852/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Sat Oct 5 22:15:17 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 08:15:17 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081240.00ac3440@pop.primenet.com> At 05:55 PM 5/10/02 +1000, you wrote: >With respect to MS, I think Roger Clarke hit it on the head in that >article on software producer liability that he mentioned in an earlier >post ... and wrote so long ago. Unless and until MS is held legally >accountable for losses due to security breaches, they have no reason to >plug the gaping security holes in their basic architecture. Actually, this type of legal environment would go a long way to start to clean up the situation, rather than spending time and resouces on censoring ['controlling' as the operative euphamism of the day] internet 'content'. Focus on liability of shonky commercial software suppliers and allow for damages claims by businesses and governments [leave aside the individual home-body who will reap the benefits from the clean up] affected by these things. Don't go after the script kiddies, go after the company that allowed the open holes in the first place. Surely there is some shared liability at least! Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Sat Oct 5 22:17:27 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 08:17:27 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Strange response to Y2K In-Reply-To: References: <3D9E31F3.F20B6015@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081714.02279dc0@pop.primenet.com> At 06:23 PM 5/10/02 +1000, Rachel Polanskis wrote: > > > > His skin began turning blue-gray a year ago. > >Does he do ads for Intel, by any chance? :) IBM --- remember? Big Blue? ;-) JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Sat Oct 5 22:55:31 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 08:55:31 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> >As I said in an earlier post ... I also deliberately break the app chain >on the Net, using non-MS mailers and browsers .. and have had no problem >at all with e-mail and other viruses. I get the infected e-mails, but >they're essentially harmless. I still use IE, sometimes NS just doesn't work (no I mean it doesn't WORK at all!) then when IE fails, my NS works. Go figure. Never had a virus though. However I've NEVER used Outlook. I don't like software I know I can't control :) IE is OK providing you turn everything off. >And those I've recommended this solution to have been amazed at how many >problems went away when they adopted non MS alternative applications. I gasp at this thought. Really? No. Could never happen. >Having a non-standard Windows setup is something I also recommend to >people ... as script viruses in particular rely on default setups to do >their stuff. Oh that's an excellent idea. Never thought to put it in those words. I have a very NON standard set up because I carried my configuration from the 1980's across and back then, things were quite different :) >With respect to MS, I think Roger Clarke hit it on the head in that >article on software producer liability that he mentioned in an earlier >post ... and wrote so long ago. Unless and until MS is held legally >accountable for losses due to security breaches, they have no reason to >plug the gaping security holes in their basic architecture. Class Action :) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dassa@dhs.org Sun Oct 6 00:09:00 2002 From: dassa@dhs.org (Dassa) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:09:00 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081240.00ac3440@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <000201c26ccc$a74d89c0$0200a8c0@dassa> |> -----Original Message----- |> From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au |> [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Jan Whitaker |> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 8:15 AM |> To: Frank O'Connor |> Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au |> Subject: RE: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear |> |> Actually, this type of legal environment would go a long way to start to |> clean up the situation, rather than spending time and resouces on censoring |> ['controlling' as the operative euphamism of the day] internet |> 'content'. Focus on liability of shonky commercial software suppliers and |> allow for damages claims by businesses and governments [leave aside the |> individual home-body who will reap the benefits from the clean up] affected |> by these things. Don't go after the script kiddies, go after the company |> that allowed the open holes in the first place. Surely there is some |> shared liability at least! Why not go after all consultants and advisors also. I'm sure a number of link participants have been responsible for some of the infrastructure, both hardware and software, that is in use at some of the larger organisations around the country. Also the media must share some liability, after all, they carried all the advertisements over the years. The bottom line is the mentality of blaming others is too wide spread. We must take responsibility for ourselves. It is all too easy to blame others. But if you consider the small proportion that do end up with infections and other problems due to security holes, there are one hell of a lot out there that don't ever have a problem. Doesn't that tell you something? But if you link the responsibility for software performance and security to the license provisions software companies force on us then I would tend to agree with you more. If they want to clean up with restricitive licenses where the purchaser only pays to use the software and never owns it and is under strict restrictions with what they do with the software then the software companies should be made to take more responsibility for the performance and security of their products. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From grove@zeta.org.au Sun Oct 6 01:06:23 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:06:23 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Strange response to Y2K In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081714.02279dc0@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 06:23 PM 5/10/02 +1000, Rachel Polanskis wrote: > > > > > > His skin began turning blue-gray a year ago. > > > >Does he do ads for Intel, by any chance? :) > > IBM --- remember? Big Blue? ;-) I was thinking of those ads with the "Blue Man Group", where they did weird things to advertise the P4 chip! rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Sun Oct 6 01:06:28 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:06:28 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> Message-ID: At 8:55 AM +1000 6/10/2002, Adam Todd wrote: >>As I said in an earlier post ... I also deliberately break the app >>chain on the Net, using non-MS mailers and browsers .. and have had >>no problem at all with e-mail and other viruses. I get the infected >>e-mails, but they're essentially harmless. > >I still use IE, sometimes NS just doesn't work (no I mean it doesn't >WORK at all!) then when IE fails, my NS works. Go figure. I'm getting to really like Mozilla. Netscape 7 without all the AOL annoyance, ways to blow away those annoying pop-ups, and serious XML and programmability. Opera's not bad, iCab (a Mac only browser with a very low footprint) is very quick, IE is OK. I still have Netscape 4.8 on my disk, but find I rarely use it nowadays. > >Never had a virus though. However I've NEVER used Outlook. I don't >like software I know I can't control :) IE is OK providing you turn >everything off. As a rule I don't get viruses on my Solaris and Mac boxes ... haven't had one for years on either- despite the fact that I have little or no viral protection on them. The PC on the other hand is often attacked. I keep the firewall, virus package and virus definitions updated big-time on that puppy, and won't use it as my primary internet access machine. That said, the PC does some things better than the Mac and Solaris boxes ... database comes to mind. Theres a lot more database options on a Wintel machine than there are on other platforms. And in a hardware sense, the PC is more 'tinkerable' and adaptable than its counterparts ... and I am a bit of a compulsive tinkerer. :) Outlook is OK .... but it tries to do too much and ends up providing less than average performance on each of its separate functions. If your corporate e-mail system is MS-Exchange based you'd be nuts not to use it (and live with the security risk) ... but otherwise I recommend specialist clients for e-mail, news, PIM, calendaring and document management. Most are very configurable to work seamlessly with their 'helper' applications, and in sum provide more functionality and better performance than an Outloook, Outlook Express or Entourage solution. (Aside from this, in combination they are a vast magnitude more secure.) Regards, ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Sun Oct 6 01:43:10 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:43:10 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <000201c26ccc$a74d89c0$0200a8c0@dassa> References: <000201c26ccc$a74d89c0$0200a8c0@dassa> Message-ID: At 10:09 AM +1000 6/10/2002, Dassa wrote: >Why not go after all consultants and advisors also. I'm sure a number >of link participants have been responsible for some of the >infrastructure, both hardware and software, that is in use at some of >the larger organisations around the country. Also the media must share >some liability, after all, they carried all the advertisements over the >years. There are a number of consultants and advisors I'd like to go after ... but given that they're usually selling into more ostensibly sophisticated markets than the PC manufacturers (Apple, Intel, Dell, Gateway etc), or the OS and application companies (Apple, MS, etc etc), one could probably argue that the principle of 'caveat emptor' applies. > >The bottom line is the mentality of blaming others is too wide spread. >We must take responsibility for ourselves. I have no problem with that. I do however have a big problem with blaming users, consumers and clients for inherent software shortcomings, and/or deficiencies in procedures and design by software companies regarding security, updates and the like. It all comes down to a matter of disclosure. When I buy a piece of hardware, or a copy of an OS, or an application, the company concerned goes to pains to remove themselves from any liability via their 'agreements' ... that are only available after I have opened the package. And basically the 'agreements' are a simply disavowal of ANY responsibility for product shortcomings. Nothing in those agreements says "If you install this package you must spend a significant proportion of your remaining life-span finding and installing any updates, bug fixes and security patches", or that "If you buy this package it would be a smart move to buy and install additional packages to ensure that it works right, or that its secure or whatever AT YOUR OWN COST." These PC's OS's and apps are sold as consumer items, into a consumer market that is basically uninformed, is used to an electronic acquisitions policy that covers little numbers like white-goods, TV's and games machines (and equates PC's with same), and is used to the protection of the Sale of Goods Act and other mercantile and consumer law with respect to same. If consumers knew about the necessary additional time and expense inherent in maintaining their PC's, in protecting their PC's, and in doing the same for their software I doubt you'd sell to many of the puppies. But consumers are NEVER informed of that by the people who are trying to sell into the market. What is disclosed are trite marketing phrases (like 'Where do you want to be today?', or 'Switch' or 'digital hub'), or wonderful marketing tomes on how much more 'productive' you're going to be, or how much more 'enjoyment' or 'fun' you are going to have. The 'bottom line' is that manufacturers, software producers and the like in the real world take NO responsibility for any deficiencies in what they sell us ... and I don't know about you, but I find that pretty grating. > >It is all too easy to blame others. But if you consider the small >proportion that do end up with infections and other problems due to >security holes, there are one hell of a lot out there that don't ever >have a problem. Doesn't that tell you something? Small proportion? Where have you been for the last 10 years? :) Pretty well every PC (Apple, Intel, Sun etc) owner I know has had some incidence of viral infection, or the blue screen of death, or crashes and data corruption and loss. Hey, it's now regarded as a fact of life .. which shows how successful the various manufacturers and vendors have been in indoctrinating us. > >But if you link the responsibility for software performance and security >to the license provisions software companies force on us then I would >tend to agree with you more. If they want to clean up with restricitive >licenses where the purchaser only pays to use the software and never >owns it and is under strict restrictions with what they do with the >software then the software companies should be made to take more >responsibility for the performance and security of their products. We basically agree ... but I think the moment that the software companies tried to absolve themselves from ANY responsibility in this ... they lost any high ground. Basically their moral ground is now that which you would associate with pond scum or sludge. (I include Apple, Intel, Sun, MS and others under this umbrella) And given that, and given that they want to put ALL the responsibility on the consumer, and given that they will accept NONE themselves then all we are saying is that it's about time that the 'worm turned' ... so to speak. :) That being the case, Rogers paper of 10 or 12 years ago is a good place to start. Read it an you'll see that there's no radical onus of responsibility imposed. There's no obligation which has not and would not be imposed an ANY other manufacturer, vendor or producer. All he's basically arguing for is that these companies should be subject to the SAME consumer law controls that every other manufacturer, vendor or producer is. I find that neither radical, preposterous or an abrogation of any personal responsibility I should accept. Regards, ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From patriciay9d8@mail.com Sun Oct 6 02:46:34 2002 From: patriciay9d8@mail.com (Patricia) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:46:34 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] I'm surprised... In-Reply-To: <26194817374812.928475@www.anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <10339155887157.10592@mail.com> ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment SGksDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBhbiBpbmNyZWRpYmxlIG9mZmVyIGZvciB5b3UuIE15IGJveWZyaWVuZCB3 YXMgdW5zYXRpc2ZpZWQgd2l0aCBoaXMgcGVuaXMgc2l6ZSwgaGUgdHJpZWQgZXZlcnl0aGluZyB0 byBlbmxhcmdlIGhpcyBwZW5pcyBidXQgbm90aGluZyB3YXMgd29ya2luZy4gRmluYWxseSBoZSBm b3VuZCB0aGlzIHdlYnNpdGUuIEluIGxlc3MgdGhlbiAyIHdlZWtzIGhlIHdhcyBzZWVpbmcgbm90 aWNhYmxlIHJlc3VsdHMgb2YgMiBpbmNoZXMsIGFuZCBzYWlkIGl0IHdhcyB2ZXJ5IGVhc3ksIGFs bCBuYXR1cmFsLCBhbmQgZWZmZWN0aXZlLg0KDQpNb3JlIGluZm8gaGVyZTogaHR0cDovL3dlYm1h c3RlcnMubWFsZW1hbnVhbC5jb20vaW4vd2l0by9ZDQoNClBhdHJpY2lhDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLQ0KW0lEOiAxV20yd3RZSDJiVThZOURuZzRGd1ladjMzWXZlSWdtTTlOclJFUTgyekJO OWI5ektdDQoNCg== ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From listmail2@karmanaut.com Sun Oct 6 03:09:28 2002 From: listmail2@karmanaut.com (Viveka) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:09:28 +1000 Subject: [LINK] The President Versus David Hicks Message-ID: The front page of smh.com.au today proclaims: Taxpayers fund 'truth' about Hicks http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/05/1033538811746.html some points: 1. the Federal 'Arts Minister' David Kemp is either trying to censor the film, or at least make it look like he's putting in an effort to censor it. As is usual, I would never have heard of this film otherwise, and now await its release with keen interest. 2. the 'journalist' at the Herald says "A spokeswoman for the corporation would not reveal the amount of taxpayers' money given to Mr Levy for his planned documentary." 2a. A google search for "The President Versus David Hicks" turns up this as the description for the second hit: The President Versus David Hicks, Curtis Levy, $20,000 Clicking on the link takes you to http://www.afc.gov.au/services/approvals/fund_proj.FD&M_arch/apr02.html So I can exclusively report to you that Karmanaut has obtained documents revealing the amount of secret funding that 'taxpayers' have provided for this controversial expose, or whatever. [p.s. scare quotes only there to mock the practice of scare quotes in general, and not really intended to impinge on the reputation of the 'journalist' in question, Christine Sams, who claims the more humble mantle of 'entertainment reporter' in any case, and is undoubtedly working to stupid deadlines which preclude her from doing online research, or maybe her net connection was down or something] Love, V. -- Viveka Weiley, Karmanaut. { http://www.karmanaut.com | http://www.planet-earth.org http://www.MacWeb3D.org | http://sydney.siggraph.org.au } Hypermedia, virtual worlds, human interface, truth, beauty. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Sun Oct 6 07:32:06 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 17:32:06 +1000 Subject: [LINK] The President Versus David Hicks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172934.0620dd60@pop> >1. the Federal 'Arts Minister' David Kemp is either trying to censor the >film, or at least make it look like he's putting in an effort to censor >it. As is usual, I would never have heard of this film otherwise, and now >await its release with keen interest. Bob Carr refuses to acknowledge our film "Something About AJ" http://somethingaboutaj.inoz.com/ as even being made, yet alone a full NSW Production! He's the Minister for Arts! And after Spike's coverage of our film in the SMH last Monday due to the Censorship issue by Auburn Council, the Council has now agreed to allow us a special screening at the end of the month! Now come and see a film that REALLY tells the truth about Government :) >2. the 'journalist' at the Herald says "A spokeswoman for the corporation >would not reveal the amount of taxpayers' money given to Mr Levy for his >planned documentary." Errr, I wasn't aware that the FFC actually paid our money. I understood they had "Tax Credits" to issue. (I might have the FFC confused.) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Sun Oct 6 07:28:36 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 17:28:36 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> >programmability. Opera's not bad, iCab (a Mac only browser with a very low >footprint) is very quick, IE is OK. I still have Netscape 4.8 on my disk, >but find I rarely use it nowadays. I think I'm still using IE4 and NS 4. I just want a browser that reads HTML :) Not everything else! I don't have time to wait! >>Never had a virus though. However I've NEVER used Outlook. I don't like >>software I know I can't control :) IE is OK providing you turn everything off. > >As a rule I don't get viruses on my Solaris and Mac boxes ... haven't had one I wasn't aware there were any (if) Mac Viruses at all? Perhaps OSX might have some susceptibility due to it's Linux base? But even that is highly minimal in most cases. As to Solaris, only the typical third party applications would be possible leaks. >for years on either- despite the fact that I have little or no viral >protection on them. I have NO virus protection on our windows workstations here and NEVER had a Virus nor do I intend allowing any. (Mind you, I have my usual checking and monitoring on my linux firewall :> ) It's amazing how much change in attitude people have towards the "use" of a PC after they work in my office for a week. >The PC on the other hand is often attacked. I keep the firewall, virus >package and virus definitions updated big-time on that puppy, and won't >use it as my primary internet access machine. Our PC's are two DMZ's and two firewalls away from the live Internet, so we don't see anything nasty here. PLus OUTLOOK is evaporated from all windows machines on installation :) So I don't even see inbound attacks. Hard to get to 10.21.205.1 :) >That said, the PC does some things better than the Mac and Solaris boxes ... Yeah, but then a Mac does something better than a PC :) I haven't used Solaris in a LONG time, not really suited for my small environment. >database comes to mind. PC? Database? I'd go with MySQL on a Nix system :) OK, perhaps you mean interface - Access? The worst evil, but very useful. >Theres a lot more database options on a Wintel machine than there are on >other platforms. Hmm. Access as an interface to MySQL is all I find useful :) If I could find an "Access" for NIX, I'd be able to pretty much convert the desk tops. Although I spend a bit of time coding my web interfaces to the database so we have pretty much the same forms and entry, just not the "real time" updates and lookups. >And in a hardware sense, the PC is more 'tinkerable' and >adaptable than its counterparts ... and I am a bit of a compulsive tinkerer. I use to. I've found of late that using old hardware and new causes SERIOUS problems, so I no longer really look for the ability to mix equipment as I did in the XT, 286 and 386 days. Now days, you have to buy all your hardware at the same time or expect weird things to happen. Like performance lackings. The Mac's can be quite playful thought too. Don't they accept standard PCI? >Outlook is OK . ARGH! NEVER. > but it tries to do too much and ends up providing less than average > performance on each of its separate functions. If your corporate e-mail > system is MS-Exchange based you'd be nuts not to use it (and live with the There are alternatives that work SECURELY. They have been talked about on Link previously. >security risk) ... but otherwise I recommend specialist clients for >e-mail, news, PIM, calendaring and document management. Have a look at TUTOS :) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Sun Oct 6 09:19:18 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:19:18 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> Message-ID: At 5:28 PM +1000 6/10/2002, Adam Todd wrote: >I think I'm still using IE4 and NS 4. I just want a browser that >reads HTML :) Not everything else! I don't have time to wait! Some of the later offerings have a number of features I like ... I often whack a number of tabs in Mozilla for example that I can open whilst I'm browsing that provide me with a basic dynamic link to the site I've got the tab up and running for. Think of it as a site ticker on steroids. > >>>Never had a virus though. However I've NEVER used Outlook. I >>>don't like software I know I can't control :) IE is OK providing >>>you turn everything off. >> >>As a rule I don't get viruses on my Solaris and Mac boxes ... haven't had one > >I wasn't aware there were any (if) Mac Viruses at all? Perhaps OSX >might have some susceptibility due to it's Linux base? But even >that is highly minimal in most cases. MacOS 9 proves problematic for virus writers and those seeking to remotely access Macs (a la Back Orifice or whatever) on two counts ... both of them largely accidental and none of Apple's doing. First, the MacOS has been revised and rehashed so many times over so many years that there are literally thousands of (documented and undocumented) traps in there that the virus writer must surmount. Second, files in the System folder are protected by a lot of these traps. Finally, for its in-built data packeting, Apple uses AppleTalk. It's impossible for someone to transparently hack a Mac using an open IP port, because during the conversion process the IP packets become AppleTalk packets ... which are subject to numerous inherent controls in the system and application which is using them. Apple's file sharing and Web sharing system is pretty tight as well. The new MacOS ... MacOS X ... is a BSD based UNIX (BSD 4.4 from memory) using a Mach kernel and has full file protection and file registry capabilities, half a zillion traps in its Cocoa and Darwin GUI's and API's, and serious USR based permissions required to make any registry changes. It would be hackable to the extent that any UNIX is hackable ... but BSD does have a name as the most secure UNIX there is, and has only been hit by two OS level worms and no viruses that I know of. > >As to Solaris, only the typical third party applications would be >possible leaks. Like BSD, Solaris is a very secure UNIX variant. With UNIX it's possible to do hacks, viruses and worms that work at the application level but every one runs into the very strong USR permissions and registry structures, the file protection, the system directory protection and the like ... and only a crazy man would fail not to set them to high and only log in as 'master user' when he absolutely had to ... before he even started using the System. I had a love affair with Solaris for years ... but now I'm seriously getting to like MacOS X. Even more user friendly than Solaris ... and still retains all the NIX power, stability and features. > >>That said, the PC does some things better than the Mac and Solaris boxes ... > >Yeah, but then a Mac does something better than a PC :) I haven't >used Solaris in a LONG time, not really suited for my small >environment. True ... all OS's have their different strengths and weaknesses. Windows, for example, is in many ways a marvel of software engineering ... and I mean that. What other OS that you know of can run on so many different hardware configurations (admittedly within the relatively loose Wintel specification), as reliably as it does (I know it's Crash City ... but the fact that you get any sort of reliability at all out of it is astonishing given the plethora of hardware and software conditions it has to cope with) and is as extensible to new and changing standards (via drivers and the like)? Apple and Sun had it easy ... they control the hardware specification. > >>database comes to mind. > >PC? Database? I'd go with MySQL on a Nix system :) OK, perhaps >you mean interface - Access? The worst evil, but very useful. My SQL is OK, but it's a pain to develop in, and doesn't have what I'd call a top-of-the-line data engine. Access is crud ... and MS should stop selling it. No, I mean the ability to run and develop using little puppies like DB2, Oracle, MS-SQL, Sequent, and mess with all the different app servers and the like that are available to access them. It's the simple fact that there's so much choice available. And MDAC and little standards like ODBC, OLE-Db and ' some of the .NET data technologies are MS initiated and pretty cool. Of course after I've developed same I'd whack them on a serious server or whatever ... but just being able to handle the multiplicity of choice for development on a single machine is good. > >>Theres a lot more database options on a Wintel machine than there >>are on other platforms. > >Hmm. Access as an interface to MySQL is all I find useful :) If I >could find an "Access" for NIX, I'd be able to pretty much convert >the desk tops. Although I spend a bit of time coding my web >interfaces to the database so we have pretty much the same forms and >entry, just not the "real time" updates and lookups. I find other low end database options that make Access look rather poor. Filemaker for example comes at an Access price, but gives you SQL Server like capabilities, is wickedly easy to develop a Web front end for, comes with its own included low end Web server plug-in, has numerous third party plug-ins and extensions that vastly extend it, is very network friendly (unlike Access which consumes inordinate amounts of bandwidth), does cool XML in its latest version and is very extensible to other data sources via ODBC, JDBC and other API's ... and the one CD provides a database that will run on MacOS 9, MacOS X, Windows 98, NT and 2000 and LINUX from memory. It handles all the standards, and then some ... and if you're writing the odd small networked database system is ideal for minimizing development time and maximizing output. In native Windows it also produces much nicer native system front ends than Access ... which is very boring and very MS. With Filemaker you can paint like Picasso, with Access you can do things the MS way only. Add to that the fact that with Access (when constructing Queries or relationships for example) in the normal MS way you have to burrow down through fifty levels of damn menu just to get something done ... whereas these common database operations are simply accessed in FM. No decisions about little database maintenance numbers like indexing (it auto-indexes related fields and will auto index fields on the fly for example if a major query is made to it based on that field), and can handle quite large files with ease. (Up to 50 open files, each file limited to 2 gigabytes in size.) I'm tending to get more into object database and application server now ... but if anyone wants a quick, fast, reliable and cheap networked relational database solution with RAD capabilities and the like that you would not believe, I often recommend Filemaker to them. It doesn't do a number of things that high end database packages do, and it may not be as quick on a data find and sort of DB2 or Oracle ... then again Access's data engine since the excellent version 2 one has become the slowest I have ever seen ... but it costs bugger all and will handle 99% of your needs. > >>And in a hardware sense, the PC is more 'tinkerable' and >>adaptable than its counterparts ... and I am a bit of a compulsive tinkerer. > >I use to. I've found of late that using old hardware and new causes >SERIOUS problems, so I no longer really look for the ability to mix >equipment as I did in the XT, 286 and 386 days. > >Now days, you have to buy all your hardware at the same time or >expect weird things to happen. Like performance lackings. I tend to build to order nowadays ... I go to a small PC shop and tell them exactly what I want in it - from the make and model of the motherboard, the CPU, the memory, the sounds and graphics cards, installed drives and the like. I go for standards and quality in everything ... I've found that you gets what you pays for in PC construction and it doesn't pay to cut corners. > >The Mac's can be quite playful thought too. Don't they accept standard PCI? Mmm ... have done for years - they gave away that stupid Nubus architecture nearly 7 years ago. They also use ATA/IDE drives now (a backward move in my opinion - I like SCSI and RAID), USB, 6 pin Firewire (which is way cool), native 802.11b wireless networking, in-built flat screens in their latest consumer desk-tops, and CD and DVD writers as standard. I'm way impressed with their current consumer line-up (iMacs and iBooks) but not so keen on their current range of top-end desk-tops. Apparently they're working on that new super fast IDE replacment standard which Intel is promoting, and Firewire 2 (800 Mbs powered external bus) and Firewire 3 (1600 Mbs) should be released in Mac models over the next year or so. They're also looking at switching CPU suppliers from Motorola to IBM ... which has developed a new multi-core (think 4 CPU's on the one chip) Power chip with full Altivec (think a 256 bit DSP) capabilities on-board. About the only thing I haven't seen in their plans is USB 2 ... but then again, in practice Firewire is much faster and more extensible anyway. > >>Outlook is OK . > >ARGH! NEVER. > >> but it tries to do too much and ends up providing less than >>average performance on each of its separate functions. If your >>corporate e-mail system is MS-Exchange based you'd be nuts not to >>use it (and live with the > >There are alternatives that work SECURELY. They have been talked >about on Link previously. Yeah, but all the things in Exchange fall over if you don't use the MS client ware. Personally, in a corporate sense, I wouldn't install Exchange in a fit. If you want e-mail and integrated doc management and PIM ... think Lotus Notes/cc;Mail/Domino. Secure, quick, and works straight out the box ... does what it says. Exchange has to have so many extensions and additions and packages added to it to provide even a fraction of the Lotus suite's utility that in the final analysis you pay about 50% less for Lotus. :) Factor in the various maintenance, administration and security issues ... and Exchange starts to look very suss as an enterprise e-mail alternative. And as you say, if you're not worried about integration ... good old SendMail, any old IMAP server, a much cheaper document management package and a net-workable PIM licensed at about $20 per machine can be set up to do all that Exchange/Outlook can do ... and far far more. > >>security risk) ... but otherwise I recommend specialist clients for >>e-mail, news, PIM, calendaring and document management. > >Have a look at TUTOS :) Will do. Regards, ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From grove@zeta.org.au Sun Oct 6 09:48:27 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:48:27 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Adam Todd wrote: > I wasn't aware there were any (if) Mac Viruses at all? Perhaps OSX might > have some susceptibility due to it's Linux base? But even that is highly > minimal in most cases. OSX is based on BSD. Also, because it's a different architecture any linux worms like slapper won't affect it as it looks for specific OS versions and hardware platforms. Not to say a cross platform worm is not a big possibility. > As to Solaris, only the typical third party applications would be possible > leaks. I have a bit of code called "sunkiller". You give it an IP address of a Sun box and watch it grind to a halt. I think later SunOS versions are protected. I reported the bug to Sun in 1997 along with some other people.... > The Mac's can be quite playful thought too. Don't they accept standard PCI? It's not the hardware. It is getting the vendors to write the drivers. Mostly there is support for the Mac these days. rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Sun Oct 6 11:25:11 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:25:11 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006212336.05c3a090@pop> > > I wasn't aware there were any (if) Mac Viruses at all? Perhaps OSX might > > have some susceptibility due to it's Linux base? But even that is highly > > minimal in most cases. > >OSX is based on BSD. OK, at any rate a good stable and strong Nix. >linux worms like slapper won't affect it as it looks for specific OS versions >and hardware platforms. Not to say a cross platform worm is not a big >possibility. Cross Platform worms are definitely on their way > > The Mac's can be quite playful thought too. Don't they accept standard > PCI? > >It's not the hardware. It is getting the vendors to write the drivers. As with any platform beyond Windows. >Mostly there is support for the Mac these days. I suspected as much. I'm not a big Mac person yet, but my Dual G4's are coming. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Sun Oct 6 12:00:00 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 22:00:00 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006212535.05c3dc10@pop> At 19:19 6/10/02 +1000, Frank O'Connor wrote: >At 5:28 PM +1000 6/10/2002, Adam Todd wrote: >>I think I'm still using IE4 and NS 4. I just want a browser that reads >>HTML :) Not everything else! I don't have time to wait! > >Some of the later offerings have a number of features I like ... I often >whack a number of tabs in Mozilla for example that I can open whilst I'm >browsing that provide me with a basic dynamic link to the site I've got >the tab up and running for. Think of it as a site ticker on steroids. ROFL! Nice feature, but something I'm not likely to use as my browsing work generally falls to reading the SMH whilst getting a dozen phone calls, using TUTOS, whilst taking a dozen phone calls, and checking my own web site(s) whilst being harasses by cast and crew :) But I can see the benefit in the way you describe it. >by a lot of these traps. Finally, for its in-built data packeting, Apple >uses AppleTalk. It's impossible for someone to transparently hack a Mac >using an open IP port, because during the conversion process the IP >packets become AppleTalk packets ... which are subject to numerous >inherent controls in the system and application which is using them. I wasn't aware of that, but then it makes sense since I have to use Mac-Lan to establish file sharing. I'll have to get AppleTalk running on my Nix server one day in the future :) >Apple's file sharing and Web sharing system is pretty tight as well. I rather noticed this with the iMac we have here. Nice machine, pain in the, well, it does what it was designed to do and keeps people from playing with it :) >half a zillion traps in its Cocoa and Darwin GUI's and API's, and serious >USR based permissions required to make any registry changes. It would be >hackable to the extent that any UNIX is hackable ... but BSD does have a >name as the most secure UNIX there is, and has only been hit by two OS >level worms and no viruses that I know of. Bottom line is anything that has a legal entry can have an illegal entry. But it's a lot harder from the other end of a cable and even harder if people just used Address translation! >protection, the system directory protection and the like ... and only a >crazy man would fail not to set them to high and only log in as 'master >user' when he absolutely had to ... before he even started using the System. I honestly think that goes without saying on any serious and need to be secure NIX system. >I had a love affair with Solaris for years ... but now I'm seriously >getting to like MacOS X. Even more user friendly than Solaris ... and >still retains all the NIX power, stability and features. Oh shuddup! I'm still trying to get my G4's :) I understand I'll NEVER have Final Cut Pro 3 crash on a G4 with OSX :) (I did crash the iMac with FCP3 under OS9, but I really wasn't being nice to FCP and what I was doing!) >>>That said, the PC does some things better than the Mac and Solaris boxes >>Yeah, but then a Mac does something better than a PC :) I haven't used >>Solaris in a LONG time, not really suited for my small environment. > >True ... all OS's have their different strengths and weaknesses. Windows, for YEAH! Just a damn shame Apple don't jump the PC band wagon. >example, is in many ways a marvel of software engineering ... >and I mean that. Yep, I agree. Considering I've still got a copy of a beta what was to be Windows 2, not only has it come a long way, but it's changed the entire way we interface. I still like my NCURSES (or even QBASIC!) text screens sometimes :) >What other OS that you know of can run on so many different hardware >configurations (admittedly within the relatively loose Wintel specification), Ouch! Well I dunno. What other operating systems do you knw chew up disk space just for the operating system! I can build a Linux Kernel on a floppy to do a fair bit. Windows doesn't have that adaptability. And now, it's extremely inefficient to remote boot a windows workstation. At least with 3.11 you could afford the 2 minute remote boot load time. I wasn't going to try it with the base 95MB Windows 95! >as reliably as it does (I know it's Crash City ... but the fact that you >get any sort of reliability at all out of it is astonishing given the >plethora of hardware and software conditions it has to cope with) and is >as extensible to new and changing standards (via drivers and the like)? Stability comes down to limiting what you load. I have only the drivers for the date period of the hardware. I don't load every application that flies my way, although my NT workstation is looking a bit sad right now, but it hasn't been re-installed since, gee, I can't even tell, well before 2000. I normally replace the C drive every year and install fresh, but been a tad busy. My NT workstation also has a 100% uptime, although the last six months I seem ot have a problem where Explorer will crash, remove the desk top and task bar and then reload. All the startup apps fly off even though they are already running. But it's so rare I don't care. My NT4 server has been running since early 1998 and never missed a beat. It's just a file server and print server. Nothing else. Been meaning to ditch it in favour of a Linux box for enhanced usage. Time is my constraint! >Apple and Sun had it easy ... they control the hardware specification. Yes, and tend to be more stable for the grunt. >>>database comes to mind. >> >>PC? Database? I'd go with MySQL on a Nix system :) OK, perhaps you >>mean interface - Access? The worst evil, but very useful. > >My SQL is OK, but it's a pain to develop in, and doesn't have what I'd >call a top-of-the-line data engine. Well, now you're talking Oracle! >Access is crud ... and MS should stop selling it. As a database yes, as an interface, it's all I can find that works and seems stable. >No, I mean the ability to run and develop using little puppies like DB2, >Oracle, MS-SQL, Sequent, That's VERY high end. I had a time where I was fighting between Oracle and MS-SQL. Pros and Cons each way, initially settled on MS-SQL, but found a con that was more of a problem than the loss of a feature in Oracle so we cut over. I don't do anything that sophisticated any more. MySQL, perl scripts, Access and a good Apache Web server (not using PHP) works well for me! >and mess with all the different app servers and the like that are >available to access them. It's the simple fact that there's so much choice >available. This is true. >And MDAC and little standards like ODBC, OLE-Db and ' some of the .NET >data technologies are MS initiated and pretty cool. Of course after I've >developed same I'd whack them on a serious server or whatever ... but just >being able to handle the multiplicity of choice for development on a >single machine is ODBC is very useful. I sometimes wish the interfaces under Linux were so selectable. But I've chosen a suitable platform that is not over the top, but not restrictive in what I feel we'll need to do here in the next few years, at least since changing my overall business and career objectives! I just wish I had someone who could do the development for me! BTW it's REALLY good to see someone throw all the variables up and show the value in each. As I said, I'm not a Mac guru (yet), but I know form a user (and admin technical perspective) the benefits. >I find other low end database options that make Access look rather poor. >Filemaker for example comes at an Access price, I didn't like Filemaker. Found it clunky. That was a few years ago now, it might be better. Problem is I got my Access licenses in bulk and it works. I've got spares so I'm not in a rush to upgrade. >other data sources via ODBC, JDBC and other API's ... and the one CD >provides a database that will run on MacOS 9, MacOS X, Windows 98, NT and >2000 and LINUX from memory. Hmmm, now that's starting to sound nice :) >In native Windows it also produces much nicer native system front ends >than Access ... which is very boring and very MS. That point I totally agree with. >With Filemaker you can paint like Picasso, with Access you can do things >the MS way only. Add to that the fact that with Access (when constructing >Queries or relationships for example) in the normal MS way you have to >burrow down through fifty levels of damn menu just to get something done >... whereas these common database operations are simply accessed in FM. I haven't had that problem. Sometimes you have to burrow through queries, but I rarely use the menus! (Maybe I'm sloppy in Access? I never wanted to learn it!) >No decisions about little database maintenance numbers like indexing (it >auto-indexes related fields and will auto index fields on the fly for >example if a major query is made to it based on that field), and can >handle quite large files with ease. (Up to 50 open files, each file >limited to 2 gigabytes in size.) OK, this might be where I get off. As I'm linking to a MySQL server I don't see much of the database structure in Access. I even create my queries in mysql's runtime and then paste them into access and occasionally find a major access weakness :) Only other thing I do is create forms and reports. SIMPLE ones. :) >believe, I often recommend Filemaker to them. It doesn't do a number of >things that high end database packages do, and it may not be as quick on a >data find and sort of DB2 or Oracle ... then again Access's data engine >since the excellent version 2 one has become the slowest I have ever seen >... but it costs bugger all and will handle 99% of your needs. Again, I don't use the Access database engine. It's just a query client for the SQL Server :) I can't even recall using Access Tables for anything. I'll agree Access is slow if you build a local table of anything over 20,000 records and start sorting. But MySQL has temp tables :) >>I tend to build to order nowadays ... I go to a small PC shop and tell >>them exactly what I want in it - from the make and model of the >>motherboard, the CPU, the memory, the sounds and graphics cards, >>installed drives and the like. I go for standards and quality in >>everything ... I've found that you gets what you pays for in PC >>construction and it doesn't pay to cut corners. Yep. Totally agree. And I buy ALL components at the same time. Not six months apart. >>The Mac's can be quite playful thought too. Don't they accept standard PCI? > >Mmm ... have done for years - they gave away that stupid Nubus >architecture nearly 7 years ago. I vaguely remember that :) >They also use ATA/IDE drives now (a backward move in my opinion - I like >SCSI and RAID), Yes and no. Cheap drives. Good on Firewire cables :) SCSI is better but not always affordable. I have an edit server here with more than 400 Gogs of drive. I'd love to build a video file server on a 1 Gig ether using only SCSI with a capacity of around 2,000 Gigs, but it's way out of this years budget! (Buy copies of "Something About AJ" then I'll be able to afford it!) >USB, 6 pin Firewire (which is way cool), Yep, using both on the iMac. Although the 100 Mbps Ethernet doesn't seem to do that speed :) >native 802.11b wireless networking, in-built flat screens in their latest >consumer desk-tops, and CD and DVD writers as standard. Ahh, the pleasures of well put together hardware, but a little pricey. >I'm way impressed with their current consumer line-up (iMacs and iBooks) >but not so keen on their current range of top-end desk-tops. iBooks are incredible. Way ahead of the PC based Notebooks. Although I think the IBM notebooks are top of the Intel arena. I'm fairly happy with the desk-top G4 range :) It's my only choice! >Apparently they're working on that new super fast IDE replacment standard >which Intel is promoting, and Firewire 2 (800 Mbs powered external bus) >and Firewire 3 (1600 Mbs) should be released in Mac models over the next >year or So we can dump Ethernet :) How about a SCSI array with a Firewire interface :) >They're also looking at switching CPU suppliers from Motorola to IBM ... >which has developed a new multi-core (think 4 CPU's on the one chip) Power >chip with full Altivec (think a 256 bit DSP) capabilities on-board. Hmmm. Won't that mean a lot of software changes and a lack of backward comparability? >About the only thing I haven't seen in their plans is USB 2 ... but then >again, in practice Firewire is much faster and more extensible anyway. Almost. I haven't seen multiple devices hanging off Firewire yet. I was of the understanding it's one device per port? If this isn't the case, then USB is really not required. Given time, I'm sure keyboards, mice and graphics tablets will all be Firewire. I'd be worried about Buss sharing and interrupts though. Especially as our use of exclusively for Video. >Yeah, but all the things in Exchange fall over if you don't use the MS >client ware. Personally, in a corporate sense, I wouldn't install Exchange >in a fit. If you want e-mail and integrated doc management and PIM ... >think Lotus Notes/cc;Mail/Domino. Secure, quick, and works straight out >the box ... Oh I have a thing about Lotus Notes. The first version gave me so much frustration. >does what it says. Exchange has to have so many extensions and additions >and packages added to it Ahhh, but this is the Microsoft way! They are preparing us for "module purchasing." Instead of buying a "package" that you install off a disk, you'll pay for each driver and module you download! >Factor in the various maintenance, administration and security issues ... >and Exchange starts to look very suss as an enterprise e-mail alternative. One only needs to see the security issues to avoid Exchange! >And as you say, if you're not worried about integration ... good old >SendMail, any old IMAP server, a much cheaper document management package >and a net-workable PIM licensed at about $20 per machine can be set up to >do all that Exchange/Outlook can do ... and far far more. Ceypus Fax works REALLY well too! You'll need Hylafax on your Nix box, but it's all integrated nicely! Prints from Windows no problem. Even better with the Premier PBX, inbound faxes are email'ed in PDF format to the correct recipient! Or I can view my faxes from a browser any time :) OK, I had some time on my hands! ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Sun Oct 6 13:59:13 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:59:13 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006212535.05c3dc10@pop> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE1C@EXCHANGE_AU> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006212535.05c3dc10@pop> Message-ID: At 10:00 PM +1000 6/10/2002, Adam Todd wrote >>as reliably as it does (I know it's Crash City ... but the fact >>that you get any sort of reliability at all out of it is >>astonishing given the plethora of hardware and software conditions >>it has to cope with) and is as extensible to new and changing >>standards (via drivers and the like)? > >Stability comes down to limiting what you load. I have only the >drivers for the date period of the hardware. I don't load every >application that flies my way, although my NT workstation is looking >a bit sad right now, but it hasn't been re-installed since, gee, I >can't even tell, well before 2000. I normally replace the C drive >every year and install fresh, but been a tad busy. > >My NT workstation also has a 100% uptime, although the last six >months I seem ot have a problem where Explorer will crash, remove >the desk top and task bar and then reload. All the startup apps fly >off even though they are already running. > >But it's so rare I don't care. > >My NT4 server has been running since early 1998 and never missed a >beat. It's just a file server and print server. Nothing else. >Been meaning to ditch it in favour of a Linux box for enhanced >usage. Time is my constraint! Try running NT4 as a serious networked data server and transaction engine. The longer it's up and running, the more processes you or the database or the application force ... the slower it gets. Eventually it'll roll over and die or crash. I've found we have to reboot NT4 servers about once a week on average when used for that purpose. It's no great chore ... as I scripted the reboots, but it is a limitation I'd prefer it didn't have. Win 2000 on the other hand is exceptionally stable, has good memory management and doesn't seem to be affected by process overload like NT4. (Of course the core/kernel of NT 4 was BSD 1.'point something', and Win 2000 is a much later generation OS.) Windows.NET (especially the Enterprise Server) looks like it will come close to serious 'NIX in all its capabilities. LINUX is almost UNIX ... but not quite. I used a LINUX server (and two Macs and a PC) yonks ago when I was running an APANA connected ISP service with a couple of other blokes and was constantly amazed at how much that little '386 server was able to do. Since then of course it's come on by leaps and bounds, but it's never lost that inherent efficiency and stability. > >That's VERY high end. I had a time where I was fighting between >Oracle and MS-SQL. Pros and Cons each way, initially settled on >MS-SQL, but found a con that was more of a problem than the loss of >a feature in Oracle so we cut over. I don't do anything that >sophisticated any more. MySQL, perl scripts, Access and a good >Apache Web server (not using PHP) works well for me! Mmmm ... Oracle's big bug bears are the licensing (they charge like wounded bulls) and the need to buy a heap more modules if you want to do anything more than standard database. It has a somewhat arcane development environment too, I suppose. MS-SQL is an excellent database ... I like it. It has a very quick transaction engine, good controls and a plethora of connectivity options and API's. I look forward to what the LongHorn version will provide with great interest. With me, it's more a matter of what the client is using and working with. :) >BTW it's REALLY good to see someone throw all the variables up and >show the value in each. As I said, I'm not a Mac guru (yet), but I >know form a user (and admin technical perspective) the benefits. I did leave out one Wintel benefit ... if you're into the latest games that's the way to go. :) > >>I find other low end database options that make Access look rather >>poor. Filemaker for example comes at an Access price, > >I didn't like Filemaker. Found it clunky. That was a few years ago >now, it might be better. Problem is I got my Access licenses in >bulk and it works. I've got spares so I'm not in a rush to upgrade. Yo would probably be really surprised. I used it for a major project a few years ago, after it was specified by the client. I thought the client was nuts and told him so. I mean the last time I'd even looked at Filemaker it was in version 2, it was flat-file and it had a whole heap of dinky field types that were meant to compensate for its lack of relational capabilities - 'repeating fields' and the like. Anyway, he gave me a copy of 4.1 to mess with ... and I found it great - especially for the Web front end he wanted on the finished product. Over the ensuing years I've seen versions 5 and 6 arrive and each has been a huge leap in features and performance. > >>USB, 6 pin Firewire (which is way cool), > >Yep, using both on the iMac. Although the 100 Mbps Ethernet >doesn't seem to do that speed :) It doesn't on any platform ... that's its theoretical max with only two nodes connected and no intervening hub or switch or router. Generally speaking you get about 60% max published Ethernet performance on a small network, and a lot less than that on a big one. Packet collisions and its dated traffic control protocols make sure of that. Ethernet needs a replacement/upgrade big-time ... As it stands, the IEEE specification carries too many network overheads for serious high-speed networking. (Same goes for ATM and a number of other link level standards.) That said, Ethernet over fibre may be a goer ... given that you can easily run zillions of simultaneous channels over the same fibre. > >>native 802.11b wireless networking, in-built flat screens in their >>latest consumer desk-tops, and CD and DVD writers as standard. > >Ahh, the pleasures of well put together hardware, but a little pricey. As I said in another post ... I find it quite relaxing sitting in the sun on the balcony with the laptop, sipping the odd mint julep and doing my development work on the servers inside, or surfing the net without wires. It's a convenience/indulgence thing ... the performance is no great shakes, but it's good enough for most uses. :) It's also way cool when you go OS and can simply roam 802.11b networks at airports and cafes to connect to the Net at speed. > >>Apparently they're working on that new super fast IDE replacment >>standard which Intel is promoting, and Firewire 2 (800 Mbs powered >>external bus) and Firewire 3 (1600 Mbs) should be released in Mac >>models over the next year or > > So we can dump Ethernet :) Only if you use a Mac to Mac direct connection ... they'll network on Firewire at full speed, but PC's won't. FireWire isn't routable either ... its traffic control and device registration works on a 'bus discovery' process ... so I can't see it replacing Ethernet. > >>They're also looking at switching CPU suppliers from Motorola to >>IBM ... which has developed a new multi-core (think 4 CPU's on the >>one chip) Power chip with full Altivec (think a 256 bit DSP) >>capabilities on-board. > >Hmmm. Won't that mean a lot of software changes and a lack of >backward comparability? Nope - the new IBM Power chip is instruction and register compatible with the old G3's and G4's. The OS would have to be slightly recoded for on-chip SMP (rather than just multiple CPU handling) and other capabilities, but all your old apps should work fine. > >>About the only thing I haven't seen in their plans is USB 2 ... but >>then again, in practice Firewire is much faster and more extensible >>anyway. > >Almost. I haven't seen multiple devices hanging off Firewire yet. >I was of the understanding it's one device per port? If this isn't >the case, then USB is really not required. Given time, I'm sure >keyboards, mice and graphics tablets will all be Firewire. No ... like USB it's 127 devices per port from memory, but I'd advise you to whack the bus powered devices as close to the computer's Firewire port as possible (or buy heaps of powered Firewire hubs!). > >I'd be worried about Buss sharing and interrupts though. Especially >as our use of exclusively for Video. Like SCSI, Firewire is asynchronous ... and each Firewire device's CPU provides traffic governance for devices higher up in the bus ... in theory you shouldn't have any traffic problems > >>Yeah, but all the things in Exchange fall over if you don't use the >>MS client ware. Personally, in a corporate sense, I wouldn't >>install Exchange in a fit. If you want e-mail and integrated doc >>management and PIM ... think Lotus Notes/cc;Mail/Domino. Secure, >>quick, and works straight out the box ... > >Oh I have a thing about Lotus Notes. The first version gave me so >much frustration. It got better. :) Regards, ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From annm@exocat.com.au Sun Oct 6 14:08:47 2002 From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:08:47 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fw: FW: Virus Message-ID: <005c01c26d42$73ed5d00$d8218790@telstra.com> sorry people, tony had sent the virus to me, pl check your files!! his em gives the fix. if you have this em its because i've bcc'd everyone in my address book. annm ************************************ Ann Moffatt EXoCaT Pty Ltd 49 Raintree Avenue BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 *********************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Gall" Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 8:01 PM Subject: Fw: FW: Virus Please see e-mail I received below. I followed the instructions as listed and got rid of it. Sorry everyone, but I had a virus sent to me. The virus (called jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by Norton or McAfee anti-virus systems. The virus sits dormant for 14 days before damaging the system. It's sent automatically by messenger and by the address book, whether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how to get rid of it. > > > > > >1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option. > > >2. In the Files/Folders option, write the name jdbgmgr.exe > > >3 Be sure you search your C drive and any other drives you may have. > > >4. Click "Find now". > > >5. The virus has a teddy bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe. DO NOT > > >OPEN > > >IT. > > >6. Go to edit, choose "select all" to highlight the file without > > >opening > > >it. > > >7. Now go to file and select "delete". It will then go to the recycle > > >bin. > > >8. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well. > > >IF YOU FIND THIS VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS > > >BOOK > > >SO THAT THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS. > > > > > >SORRY ABOUT THIS. I'M SURE THAT AS I HAVE FOUND IT, EVERYONE IN MY > > >ADDRESS > > >BOOK WILL HAVE IT AS WELL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > > >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From 6009jabez2000@bcline.com Sat Oct 5 19:56:59 2002 From: 6009jabez2000@bcline.com (¹Ùºñ¸®½º) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 04:56:59 +0900 Subject: [LINK] Á¦¹ß !¿©¼ººĐ¸¸ º¸¼¼¿ä... °¡À»ÀÇ ¹̀ÀÎÀ̀ µÇ°í½ÍÀººĐ ¸¸ Ŭ¸¯ ÇÏ½Ă±æ (±¤°í) Message-ID: <246930-220021065195659640@bcline.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/f910d8cd/attachment.htm From josh@email.nu Sun Oct 6 21:48:14 2002 From: josh@email.nu (Josh Rowe) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:48:14 +1000 Subject: [LINK] RE: Jdbgmgr.exe file hoax In-Reply-To: <005c01c26d42$73ed5d00$d8218790@telstra.com> Message-ID: <000a01c26d82$18f7e330$0a00a8c0@ONE> Jdbgmgr.exe file hoax http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html JDBGMGR.EXE - New name. Same old hoax. http://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa050702a.htm Jdbgmgr.exe hoax http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99436.htm Josh -- http://josh.id.au/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au > [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Ann Moffatt > Sent: Monday, 7 October 2002 12:09 > To: ann moffatt > Subject: [LINK] Fw: FW: Virus > > > sorry people, > > tony had sent the virus to me, pl check your files!! his em > gives the fix. > > if you have this em its because i've bcc'd everyone in my > address book. > > annm > ************************************ > Ann Moffatt > EXoCaT Pty Ltd > 49 Raintree Avenue > BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 > tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 > fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 > *********************************** > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Gall" > Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 8:01 PM > Subject: Fw: FW: Virus > > Please see e-mail I received below. I followed the > instructions as listed and got rid of it. > > Sorry everyone, but I had a virus sent to me. The virus (called > jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by Norton or McAfee anti-virus systems. > > The virus sits dormant for 14 days before damaging the > system. It's sent automatically by messenger and by the > address book, whether or not you sent e-mails to your > contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how to get > rid of it. > > > > > > > > >1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option. > > > >2. In the Files/Folders option, write the name jdbgmgr.exe > > > >3 Be sure you search your C drive and any other drives > you may have. > > > >4. Click "Find now". > > > >5. The virus has a teddy bear icon with the name > jdbgmgr.exe. DO > > > >NOT OPEN IT. > > > >6. Go to edit, choose "select all" to highlight the file without > > > >opening > > > >it. > > > >7. Now go to file and select "delete". It will then go > to the recycle > > > >bin. > > > >8. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well. > > > >IF YOU FIND THIS VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE > IN YOUR ADDRESS > > > >BOOK > > > >SO THAT THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS. > > > > > > > >SORRY ABOUT THIS. I'M SURE THAT AS I HAVE FOUND IT, > EVERYONE IN MY > > > >ADDRESS BOOK WILL HAVE IT AS WELL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > > > >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Sun Oct 6 21:45:59 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 07:45:59 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <000201c26ccc$a74d89c0$0200a8c0@dassa> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081240.00ac3440@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021007074006.026a6b70@pop.primenet.com> At 10:09 AM 6/10/02 +1000, Dassa wrote: >Why not go after all consultants and advisors also. I'm sure a number >of link participants have been responsible for some of the >infrastructure, both hardware and software, that is in use at some of >the larger organisations around the country. I don't think this is a fair assessment in this regard. We consultants [SMEs mostly] are now more than not required to carry professional indemnity insurance to cover just this type of problem, particularly if it causes harm and action is taken against us. I guess the question is really: why are MS and other commercial products allowed to get away with licenses that let them off the hook from non-performance or damages caused as a result of using their products, when clients of consultants, especially big organisation clients like government, require contracts that say us little guys take the responsibility? Maybe that is the change that should happen in corporate law, similar to what is under consideration of the AG right now with the copyright act, taking out the license language from online publishers that would nullify fair dealing. Make contract law that says that buyer beware or liability nullification is not allowed or if included, is not enforceable. Brendan and other legal eagles, would that help the situation at all? Frank said: >It all comes down to a matter of disclosure. When I buy a piece of >hardware, or a copy of an OS, or an application, the company concerned >goes to pains to remove themselves from any liability via their >'agreements' ... that are only available after I have opened the package. >And basically the 'agreements' are a simply disavowal of ANY >responsibility for product shortcomings. I read the above in a later message. Similar to what I was saying [above]. It reminded me that A Current Affair is having a story about consumer warranty and guarantee issues interviewing people at the Consumer Law Centre TONIGHT [Monday], one being Catriona Lowe who is a friend of mine. The clip shows her saying something like "a car is supposed to 'go' ". My expectation is that the product is at least supposed to do what it was purchased to 'do'. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mgm-ns@tardis.net Sun Oct 6 22:23:36 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:23:36 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fw: FW: Virus In-Reply-To: <005c01c26d42$73ed5d00$d8218790@telstra.com> References: <005c01c26d42$73ed5d00$d8218790@telstra.com> Message-ID: It's a hoax. http://www.vmyths.com/hoax.cfm?id=275&page=3 -- Best wishes, Malcolm On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:08:47 +1000, you wrote: >sorry people, > >tony had sent the virus to me, pl check your files!! his em gives the fix. > >if you have this em its because i've bcc'd everyone in my address book. > >annm >************************************ >Ann Moffatt >EXoCaT Pty Ltd >49 Raintree Avenue >BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 >tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 >fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 >*********************************** >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Gall" >Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 8:01 PM >Subject: Fw: FW: Virus > >Please see e-mail I received below. I followed the instructions as > listed and got rid of it. > >Sorry everyone, but I had a virus sent to me. The virus (called > jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by Norton or McAfee anti-virus systems. > >The virus sits dormant for 14 days before damaging the system. It's sent >automatically by messenger and by the address book, whether or not you >sent e-mails to your contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how >to get rid of it. > >> > > >> > >1. Go to Start, click on Find or Search option. >> > >2. In the Files/Folders option, write the name jdbgmgr.exe >> > >3 Be sure you search your C drive and any other drives you may have. >> > >4. Click "Find now". >> > >5. The virus has a teddy bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe. DO NOT >> > >OPEN >> > >IT. >> > >6. Go to edit, choose "select all" to highlight the file without >> > >opening >> > >it. >> > >7. Now go to file and select "delete". It will then go to the recycle >> > >bin. >> > >8. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well. >> > >IF YOU FIND THIS VIRUS YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS >> > >BOOK >> > >SO THAT THEY CAN ERADICATE IT IN THEIR OWN ADDRESS BOOKS. >> > > >> > >SORRY ABOUT THIS. I'M SURE THAT AS I HAVE FOUND IT, EVERYONE IN MY >> > >ADDRESS >> > >BOOK WILL HAVE IT AS WELL. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >> > >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >> > >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >> > http://www.hotmail.com >> > >> >> >> > >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ -- Best wishes, Malcolm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From lannet@lannet.com.au Sun Oct 6 22:28:28 2002 From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:28:28 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Adam Todd wrote: > > I wasn't aware there were any (if) Mac Viruses at all? Perhaps OSX might > have some susceptibility due to it's Linux base? But even that is highly > minimal in most cases. There was a Mac virus once many moons ago, I don't even recall its name; and OSX is FreeBSD based not Linux. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me Get rid of the Australian states. ------------------------------------------ If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From annm@exocat.com.au Sun Oct 6 23:11:22 2002 From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:11:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Virus hoax involving jdbgmgr.exe file Message-ID: <006e01c26d8e$2e674a60$d8218790@telstra.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment hi people, several of you have told me that the info i sent yesterday was a hoax. see ref below. sorry!! i got the original info from a good source so = didn't check. better safe than sorry. these viruses etc. are a real pain!! peace & love "Virus hoax involving jdbgmgr.exe file A new hoax hit the streets in mid-April. It comes in a form of an e-mail urging the recipient to delete the jdbgmgr.exe virus (infected file) if = such a file is found on the recipient's system. jdbgmgr.exe is, in fact, a standard file of the windows system (java debugger manager in the = Microsoft runtime Java engine). If you happened to delete this file, it may (and = need to) be restored by means of reinstallation of the Internet Explorer. The author of the hoax is quite diligent. His hoax reads as follows = (similar variants are possible):" ************************************ Ann Moffatt EXoCaT Pty Ltd 49 Raintree Avenue BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 *********************************** ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/5f1038c4/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Sun Oct 6 23:24:00 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 09:24:00 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20021007074006.026a6b70@pop.primenet.com> References: <000201c26ccc$a74d89c0$0200a8c0@dassa> <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081240.00ac3440@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021007092310.06053ec0@pop> >>Why not go after all consultants and advisors also. I'm sure a number >>of link participants have been responsible for some of the >>infrastructure, both hardware and software, that is in use at some of >>the larger organisations around the country. > >I don't think this is a fair assessment in this regard. We consultants >[SMEs mostly] are now more than not required to carry professional >indemnity insurance to cover just this type of problem, particularly if it >causes harm Jan, in other words, most SME professional consultants who carry such insurance don't give a hoot about the success or failure of a deployment, simply because "The insurance company will cover it if we FSCK up." ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Fri Oct 4 05:42:34 2002 From: tom.worthington@tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:42:34 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ACA Posts WLAN FAQs In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE0C@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021004153341.028e14c0@tomw.net.au> At 11:02 4/10/02, Chirgwin, Richard wrote: >http://www.aca.gov.au/consumer/faq/wlans.htm Anyone in Sydney who can understand the FAQs might like to contact Ashley Hall from ABC Radio 702 in Sydney . He interviewed me about "War chalking" Friday morning and I am not sure I did a good job of it. The media reports about "War chalking" are rather silly and sensationalist, as an example "Chalk marks the spot in UK computer hacking" from the Canberra Times . ... Head of e-business for the Confederation of British Industry, Jeremy Beale, said today, "The CBI condemns war-chalking as an implicit incitement to irresponsible and illegal acts..." Also of interest is SydneyWireless.com: http://www.sydneywireless.com/ Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150 Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309 http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617 Visiting Fellow, Computer Science, Australian National University Publications Director & Past President, Australian Computer Society ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dazza@tucan.net Mon Oct 7 00:21:27 2002 From: dazza@tucan.net (Darrell Burkey) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:21:27 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fw: FW: Virus References: <005c01c26d42$73ed5d00$d8218790@telstra.com> Message-ID: <000201c26d97$c4f253e0$563525cb@tucan.net> This is a farily well known hoax. See the following (or whack "virus hoaxes" into google) for more info: http://www.vmyths.com/hoax.cfm?id=275&page=3 > sorry people, > > tony had sent the virus to me, pl check your files!! his em gives the fix. > > if you have this em its because i've bcc'd everyone in my address book. > > annm > ************************************ > Ann Moffatt > EXoCaT Pty Ltd > 49 Raintree Avenue > BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659 > tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796 > fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916 > *********************************** > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Gall" > Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 8:01 PM > Subject: Fw: FW: Virus > > Please see e-mail I received below. I followed the instructions as > listed and got rid of it. > > Sorry everyone, but I had a virus sent to me. The virus (called > jdbgmgr.exe) is not detected by Norton or McAfee anti-virus systems. > > The virus sits dormant for 14 days before damaging the system. It's sent > automatically by messenger and by the address book, whether or not you > sent e-mails to your contacts. Here is how to check for the virus and how > to get rid of it. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From djm@mindrot.org Mon Oct 7 00:44:52 2002 From: djm@mindrot.org (Damien Miller) Date: 07 Oct 2002 10:44:52 +1000 Subject: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] Message-ID: <1033951492.1200.7.camel@xenon> ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment >From the cryptography mailing list: ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment An embedded message was scrubbed... From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Subject: Interesting KPMG report on DRM Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:33:39 +1300 (NZDT) Size: 5539 Url: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/90d34238/attachment.eml ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From djm@mindrot.org Mon Oct 7 01:18:56 2002 From: djm@mindrot.org (Damien Miller) Date: 07 Oct 2002 11:18:56 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Changes in the support for the link list In-Reply-To: <20021004102303.A19140@vastsystems.com.au> References: <20021004102303.A19140@vastsystems.com.au> Message-ID: <1033953536.1200.18.camel@xenon> On Fri, 2002-10-04 at 10:23, John Clarke wrote: > > Well, majordomo seems to use it's own internal format, whereas mailman > > just uses pipermail. Perhaps some sort of perl script is in order? > > Mailman comes with a program for rebuilding archives > (~mailman/bin/arch). I think majordomo's archives are in mbox format, > so it should simply be a matter of running this script on each mbox. This is indeed the case. I migrated the openssh-unix-dev and csound-unix-dev mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman early this year. The process was largely painless: Mailman was able to import the subscriber list and archives. The archives are stored in standard mbox format and the aforementioned script can be used to ask Mailman to process the raw archives into web archives (which are really nice). I now have Mailman hooked up behind SpamAssassin, which stops a fair amount of spam from reaching the lists. Unfortunately SpamAssassin's efficacy has dropped off considerably in the last two months - I suspect that the spammers are starting to seriously analyse the tools of their enemies. Hopefully the new statistical techniques that are being played with will make future tools more effective. My only complaint with Mailman is the moderation interface. It is very tedious to wade through posts which have been held up for various reasons. Otherwise it has been very good. -d ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From grove@zeta.org.au Mon Oct 7 01:36:09 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:36:09 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] RE: Jdbgmgr.exe file hoax In-Reply-To: <000a01c26d82$18f7e330$0a00a8c0@ONE> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Josh Rowe wrote: > Jdbgmgr.exe file hoax > http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html > > JDBGMGR.EXE - New name. Same old hoax. > http://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa050702a.htm > > Jdbgmgr.exe hoax > http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99436.htm It's a "social engineering" exploit! As discussed in Link a few weeks ago, no one really knows what those pesky files are on your PC anymore and so people are vulnerable if they receive an email saying the prescence of something is a "virus", even if it isn't. I guess this one cannot be blamed on MS - it's just a crafty trick by someone too slack to write source code ;) rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rw@firstpr.com.au Mon Oct 7 02:34:35 2002 From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:34:35 +1000 Subject: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] References: <1033951492.1200.7.camel@xenon> Message-ID: <3DA0F2BB.3B81D4E8@firstpr.com.au> Damien Miller forwarded Peter Gutman's cryptography@wasabisystems.com and cypherpunks@lne.com quote of a KPMG report "The Digital Challenge: Are You Prepared?" http://www.kpmg.com/news/index.asp?cid=660 . Responses indicate that the media industry has yet to find its footing in the digital age. Rather than embracing the Internet as an inexpensive means of delivering top-quality creative content to the consumer in a highly customized format, industry executives remain mesmerized by the destructive potential of online piracy. Rather than go on the offensive, the industry has hunkered down in a defensive stance. . . . the industry has shown a deficit of creativity and innovation in rolling out products and services that can compete with the pirates. I think this is an accurate analysis of a really sad situation. Like King Canute, the record companies are devoting most of their thinking and resources to holding back the tide. The industry needs to conduct itself so that people *feel like* paying to purchase recordings rather than muck around find non-licenced copies. So the legitimate music needs to be very easy and rewarding to find and pay for, very easy to download, and unencumbered by encryption, watermarks etc. 7 years ago I wrote that record companies had to make distinctions between various kinds of copying, because some is very positive for the companies and the artists. Some copying is the best form of marketing they could hope for, and other copying is simply the purchaser deriving full value from their purchase. I wrote that that artists and record companies needed to make material available on the Net and make full use of the many new possibilities for discovery, different forms of "packaging" (why have an "album" when musicians may be producing music continually, and while some fans will buy a dozen different versions of the one song?), and far-reaching ability for listeners to interact with the artists and each other. http://www.firstpr.com.au/musicmar/ One use of the artist's web site is for listeners to subscribe on a monthly and annual basis to all the artist's output. This has no parallel in the physical pre-recorded disc model. Also, listeners who pay for the artist's music can be visible on the web site, by their real name or nom-de-Net - so enabling the possibility of peer pressure to encourage people to pay for the music they are keen about. Net-based discovery and delivery eliminates time-delays, capital expenses and most of the risk in the old system. It also makes advertising less vital, since it would be possible for news of good music from an new artist to spread rapidly and globally, by "word-of-mouth" on discussion forums, without cost to the artist or record company. The most prominent aspects of the record industry are addicted to big-selling, mass-market, releases - that is the only way they know how to make money. But the Net means that money can be made from the start, on a modest scale, if the artist's costs in producing the music are relatively low. While radio is surely going to remain an important discovery method, the Net has vast potential for discovery of the music, related material and for purchasing music 24 hours a day from the comfort of home, without the intrusive, noisy, distraction of a record store which is almost certainly playing Muddy Waters on the speakers when you are in the mood to purchase Steve Reich and vice-versa. The mainstream, big-company, recorded music industry is clearly unwilling to face reality, and prefers to paint illusory pictures in their collective mind, and to try to convince others that these illusions are real. The industry - as distinct from the artists - is made up of a few ex-musicians and lots of percent-men, who muscle into a niche between a small set of creative people and a larger number of people who want, or can be induced, into purchasing the artist's creative output. In the prior era of almost entirely radio-based discovery (how often do you hear something you liked and bought in a record shop?) and music delivery entirely on pre-pressed plastic discs, there are huge barriers to be surmounted between creating music and selling it to the potentially millions of people who want to hear it. My page has diagrams which depict these bridges for discovery, distribution and sale. The record industry, with its only half-willing accomplice, commercial radio, has grown strong by bridging this gap. But like fashion clothing, it has found that the only way to make substantial profit is to have big-selling hits, which are intensively promoted and sold for a few months before the next hit is wheeled into the spotlight. This creates an enormous barrier to the widespread discovery and development of new music, because the record companies won't press it or push it on radio unless they think they can sell large quantities, and radio won't play it if it is too riotous, too minimal, too instrumental or too long to support advertising. Consequently the whole history of popular music has been continually skewed to music which sounds like, or is at least compatible, with increasingly crass commercial radio advertising. The musicians hate the record companies, but need them - at least to ship large volumes of music on pre-pressed disks. The managers have an uneasy relationship with the artists and the record companies. Record companies and artists are almost utterly dependent on radio as the initial form of discovery, so they want radio to play whatever new CD they have just released this month. But radio sees the music industry as an almost free source of stuff to entice listeners with - and only a subset of listeners who are valuable from an advertising perspective are interested in listening to whatever the record industry is pushing this month. So, since about the 1930s, a complex, risk- and capital-intensive set of bridges has been built by the record industry between artists and listeners - with radio a crucial and only marginally willing participant. Now the Net, in principle (if it wasn't for speed and cost restrictions, and the fact that it is usually not as easy to access in mobile situations such as when AM/FM radio is perfectly convenient), enables a *direct* discovery, feedback and purchasing link to be made between artists and listeners. Even if the artists don't run their own web site, whoever runs their sites for them faces minimal costs and risks compared to the old system. This is 24 hours a day, irrespective of radio propagation limitations, two-way, enabled for commerce and browsing. It completely bypasses everything the record company has built. However, I still think that if someone is going to sell a million copies of their music, then pre-pressed discs will be a significant part of that, and only record companies know how to do this on such large scales. The new system does not rely on commercial-radio compatibility, or even the listener having the same language as the artist. There are no stylistic biases as bedevil the current situation with older record company and radio people trying to anticipate the next trend in young people's music fashion. The new system has nothing to do with fashion or gatekeepers at all. If the record companies were smart, they would dive into this - after recognising their old game is made partially or largely irrelevant. If they were smart, they would aggressively pursue Net-based discovery and sale of all their artist's music, recognising that this is a low-cost way (compared to pre-pressing and distributing disks, advertising and payola) to develop and modestly profit from the zillions of artists who are developing their music and who are outside the spotlight of whatever is currently "fashionable". To some extent, with a few freebie MP3s, I guess the record companies have done this. But the record companies first have to get over their immense fear of people copying music. Its going to happen, and the best way to reduce the damaging copying is to build trust and respect with potential purchasers to minimise copying which is bad for the artist and maximise that which is good. Unfortunately, since all these issues became apparent around 7 years ago (although I did not anticipate MP3 compression ratios - that was about 5 years ago) the mainstream record industry has obstinately clung to the notion that it must make digital music impossible or impractical to copy. But it is easily shown that this is impossible: If the music is to be delivered, in full fidelity, to the consumer - the consumer can copy it. All attempts at encryption, weirdo file formats etc. are useless to stop this - because the output of the system can be recorded. The other approach is "digital fingerprinting / watermarking". There's a lot of crap written about this by various proponents. If you can hear the watermark, people won't buy the music. If you can't hear the watermark, then perceptual compression systems such as MP3 will strip it out or weaken it without affecting the music. What use is the watermark anyway? Are record companies really going to prosecute purchasers? That would be madness, the best way of destroying trust and the desire to purchase - but it could happen. I wrote about the folly of watermarks in 1997: http://www.cni.org/Hforums/cni-copyright/1997-02/1005.html - Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au http://fondlyandfirmly.com ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From gordonkeith@acslink.net.au Mon Oct 7 03:42:22 2002 From: gordonkeith@acslink.net.au (Gordon Keith) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:42:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ACA Posts WLAN FAQs In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021004153341.028e14c0@tomw.net.au> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021004153341.028e14c0@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <200210071442.22573.gordonkeith@acslink.net.au> On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:42, Tom Worthington wrote: > The media reports about "War chalking" are rather silly and > sensationalist, compare: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: CARLTON VOGT: "Ethics Matters" from InfoWorld.com, Friday, October 4, 2002 Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:18:08 -0500 From: EthicsMatters@bdcimail.com ======================================================== CARLTON VOGT "Ethics Matters" InfoWorld.com ======================================================== Friday, October 4, 2002 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TRYING TO BUILD A CASE AGAINST 'WARCHALKING' Posted Oct 02, 2002 11:15 Pacific Time I've been thinking a lot about "warchalking" recently, which is strange because until last week I'd never heard of the word. Warchalking is a direct descendant of "wardialing," in which people would program their computers to dial around to find unlisted modems. In the modern version, "wardrivers" circulate throughout a community in an automobile -- some have even upgraded to airplanes -- to find and map unprotected wireless networks. Warchalkers then make chalk marks very much like the old hobo symbols, telling where the networks are and providing other useful information. The reader who alerted me to this practice had decided that it was immoral and thought that attempts to justify it were "bizarre." So, of course, I had to have a look for myself (check out more on warchalking for yourself at http://www.warchalking.org ). I don't think the attempts to justify it are at all bizarre, although they're arguable. But I find myself unable to make a solid case against it. Making chalk marks on a sidewalk seems benign enough, so it would be better to determine whether the underlying practice -- using an open wireless network to access the Internet -- is, in and of itself, unethical. So rather than examining warchalking, I'll examine that use. My initial reaction to the idea was the same one I imagine most people would have -- I was against it. That probably stems from some kind of a Puritan ethic buried deep within most of us that it's simply wrong for someone to get something for nothing. We just don't like that idea and will come up with all sorts of reasons -- invent them if necessary -- to prove that it's wrong. To examine the ethical thrust we need to start with several assumptions. We have to assume that those using someone else's wireless connections are engaged in morally benign activities. They're not breaking into someone's system, sending spam, corrupting files, overwhelming the available bandwidth, or engaging in terrorist or other criminal activities. If they were, then we would be having a different discussion. So, let's suppose someone with a wireless card finds an open connection at my house. He stops, uses my Internet connection to check his e-mail and the stock reports, and moves on. What harm has been done? Who has been deprived of anything? What he did was most likely totally transparent to me. Even if I were working on the Internet, I most likely never knew he used the connection. The person has deprived me of nothing. I have already paid my ISP for the privilege of being connected 24/7. My ISP has been deprived of nothing. They have their money and what difference does it make to them if one or two people have used my wireless network? It would have made no difference to them if I had invited the person in to use the connection or if he used it without my knowledge. I can have as many connections on that network as I desire, or at least until I decide that multiple users are degrading my response time significantly. How is this any different from the case in which I pay my cable company for digital music? While I'm out, I leave the music on, and my neighbor -- who doesn't pay for the digital music -- sits on his patio, which adjoins mine, and listens to my music. He deprives me of nothing and deprives the cable company of nothing, except perhaps a potential customer. You could probably try to construct a case that someone using open wireless networks is in fact depriving the ISP of a customer, but that's highly unlikely. I think there are very few people, especially those with a laptop and a wireless card, who would be satisfied with sitting on the sidewalk surfing the Internet. More than likely these would be people who already have their own connection, but use this method when away from home. So, I think the potential for people using this as their sole internet connection is extremely small. How is this different from someone tapping into my phone line and using my phone to dial up a connection? Well, it's significantly different, and a lot of that difference comes from the physical nature of the act. In fact, I'd feel differently about someone using my wireless network if they broke into my house to use it. That would be wrong for a lot of reasons unrelated to simply using the network. But once we put something into the air, we begin to lose control and claims over it. I would be hard-pressed to tell people they can't stop on the sidewalk in front of my house and enjoy the aroma from the baking bread. I can't claim that they're stealing the aroma. As long as what they do doesn't impinge on my enjoying the aroma, or the bread, they are free to enjoy it too, the same as my neighbor who enjoys my digital music without depriving me of its pleasure. Part of the problem is that many people, as well as businesses and government agencies, have not put sufficient protection on their wireless networks, allowing the practice of walk-by wireless users to flourish. In fact, the Secret Service has begun its own form of wardriving and warchalking in Washington in an effort to find government agencies -- especially critical ones -- with open and exposed wireless connections. However, as long as the walk-by users aren't accessing the open Internet connections to do anything harmful or illegal, I'm having a hard time figuring out why someone would think it unethical. It would seem that those people who want to secure their networks can, and should, do so. Then we could assume that those who leave their networks available to warchalkers on purpose -- as some people are reported to do -- don't really mind sharing their resources with others. Write to Carlton Vogt at ethics_matters@infoworld.com. To discuss any of these issues, you can go to the Ethics Matters forum at http://www.infoworld.com/forums/ethics . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - MORE ETHICS MATTERS For a complete archive of his InfoWorld columns visit http://www2.infoworld.com/cgi/component/columnarchive.wbs?column=ethics ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From rick@praxis.com.au Mon Oct 7 04:13:16 2002 From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:13:16 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear References: <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081240.00ac3440@pop.primenet.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20021007074006.026a6b70@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <3DA109DC.1F1D6998@praxis.com.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > why are MS and other commercial products allowed to get away with licenses > that let them off the hook from non-performance or damages caused as a > result of using their products, when clients of consultants, especially big > organisation clients like government, require contracts that say us little > guys take the responsibility? You took the words right out of my mouth, Jan. Why indeed? A few things to consider in this regard: (*) we SMEs would not get very far if we proposed contracts that abrigated our responsibilities as much as the onerous shrink-wrap licences manage to accomplish (imagine a contract that stated we could remotely access the computer systems on which we work at any time and upgrade software as we see fit, maintain a separate database on licence and other machine info, etc.etc. a la "latest from MS"!) (*) I have seen estimates (here on LINK?) that upwards of 85% of outsourced and contracted computer systems jobs wind up failures, i.e. unfinished, did not deliver according to specs, that kind of thing. Thus, a reasonable performance and delivery clause in an IT contract would be to specify that the job(s)in the contract will be delivered at a standard "common in the IT industry" ... that otta shut'em up! Hmmm ... the phrase "world's best practice' is really a joke in IT, isn't it? If the best the IT industry can do is deliver, say, even a 20% success rate in outsourced / contracted jobs, than perhaps "delivery and performance according to world's best practice in the IT industry" would be a good safety net ;) BTW: It might amuse some Linkers to recall some of the IT horror stories that have been reported on this List. Some real shockers come to mind - were these people sued or was compensation sought? IIRC, in the case of gummint outsourcing botchups, managers' / dept.heads' firmly cover their backsides by stridently ignoring outsourcing's fail to deliver and even let contracters off of there obligations. It all looks better this way, 'at the end of the day' (cringe). cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should be changed regularly and for the same reason. -- Gerry Brooks (in the Toronto Globe & Mail) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From gordonkeith@acslink.net.au Mon Oct 7 05:05:22 2002 From: gordonkeith@acslink.net.au (Gordon Keith) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:05:22 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021006085256.06a3cec0@pop> <5.1.0.14.0.20021006172033.0620cad0@pop> Message-ID: <200210071605.22628.gordonkeith@acslink.net.au> On Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:28, Adam Todd wrote: > Hmm. Access as an interface to MySQL is all I find useful :) If I > could find an "Access" for NIX, I'd be able to pretty much convert > the desk tops. If you are just after a query front end OpenOffice.org has a very access like query tool to access tables via odbc or jdbc connections. On the OpenOffice menu choose Tools | Data Source. Still a bit rough around the edges, but worth a look at, if you're not aware of it. Regards Gordon ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Oct 7 04:59:04 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:59:04 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Microsoft issues four security bulletins Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, October 04, 2002 - - - - - Late Wednesday Microsoft issued four security bulletins involving flaws in its operating systems and in SQL Server software. The flaws vary in severity, with some potentially allowing hackers to take over users' systems. Microsoft has issued patches for the four flaws covered in the latest bulletins, which came close on the heels of a Microsoft announcement that its new focus on the security and stability of its code has seen substantial results. This year Microsoft has issued 57 security alerts, including the latest four. CNET, 3 October 2002 http://news.com.com/2100-1001-960639.html -- -- phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Oct 7 04:59:44 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:59:44 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Pentagon says wireless is insecure Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, October 04, 2002 - - - - - PENTAGON SAYS WIRELESS IS INSECURE The Secretary of Defense has banned the use of many types of wireless in the Pentagon and in most armed-forces applications, saying that the technology is too insecure to safeguard national secrets. Personnel are not allowed to connect wireless devices to classified networks or computers, according to the new ruling. Wireless access will still be allowed for some unclassified networks. The new wireless security policy document does make exceptions for certain devices and situations, including emergency and receive-only devices. The Office of the Secretary of Defense has asked the National Security Agency to identify a "Wireless Technology Vulnerabilities Database" and to develop a strategy to deploy secure wireless technology. PCWorld, 3 October 2002 http://www.idg.net/ic_953465_1794_9-10000.html -- -- phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au Mon Oct 7 05:00:25 2002 From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:00:25 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Initial MIT coursework goes online Message-ID: Extracted item provided for information. Source:Edupage, October 04, 2002 - - - - - INITIAL MIT COURSEWORK GOES ONLINE This week MIT began placing courseware online as part of its OpenCourseWare project (http://ocw.mit.edu/). MIT opted not to develop a for-profit learning initiative, as some other colleges and universities have, choosing instead to make its courseware open to the public online. MIT plans to put lecture notes, assignments, syllabi, tutorials, video simulations, and reading lists from over 2,000 courses on the site over the next ten years, though no credit will be offered for those who complete the assignments. Questions remain about technology tools for the site and intellectual property issues, but a representative of the program said that so far the response has been overwhelmingly positive. Critics said the offerings so far are limited and that merely posting such resources online does not substitute for an education at MIT. Officials from OpenCourseWare agreed that the experience of learning at MIT is not replicated by the program, but they hope that it will serve as a model for other institutions to disseminate their own resources. Wired News, 4 October 2002 http://www.wired.com/news/school/0,1383,55507,00.html -- -- phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Mon Oct 7 06:04:59 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:04:59 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021007092310.06053ec0@pop> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20021007074006.026a6b70@pop.primenet.com> <000201c26ccc$a74d89c0$0200a8c0@dassa> <5.0.2.1.0.20021006081240.00ac3440@pop.primenet.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021007160332.02696b50@pop.primenet.com> At 09:24 AM 7/10/02 +1000, you wrote: >Jan, in other words, most SME professional consultants who carry such >insurance don't give a hoot about the success or failure of a deployment, >simply because "The insurance company will cover it if we FSCK up." Hardly. I don't get paid if the job is messed up, unlike those who work for a consulting firm and get a salary. I care very much because my professional reputation hangs in the balance and determines if I get more work from clients. What carrying the insurance does do is jack up prices for absolutely no return to the client. Full stop. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From foconno1@bigpond.net.au Mon Oct 7 06:22:42 2002 From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:22:42 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mmmm, There were actually about 40 odd mac viruses and worms in the last 18 years ... but their incidence dropped off as the OS grew more complex.. Regards, At 8:28 AM +1000 7/10/2002, Howard Lowndes wrote: >On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Adam Todd wrote: >> >> I wasn't aware there were any (if) Mac Viruses at all? Perhaps OSX might >> have some susceptibility due to it's Linux base? But even that is highly >> minimal in most cases. > >There was a Mac virus once many moons ago, I don't even recall its name; >and OSX is FreeBSD based not Linux. > >-- >Howard. >LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people >Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com >"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me > Get rid of the Australian states. >------------------------------------------ >If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons? > > >---------- >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From manin@mpim-bonn.mpg.de Mon Oct 7 07:21:26 2002 From: manin@mpim-bonn.mpg.de (=?GB2312?B?zfjC582o0bbXqNOqteo=?=) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:21:26 +0800 Subject: [LINK] =?GB2312?B?zfjC57Xnu7C/qA==?= Message-ID: <200210070721.g977LLVq004556@anumail5.anu.edu.au> ÍøÂçͨѶרӪµêר̉µ¹©Ó¦ÍøÂçͨѶ²úÆ·£º net2PhoneÍøÂçµç»°¿¨: ÖĐ¹ú¡¢Ïă¸Û¡¢̀¨Íå¡¢Ó¢¹ú¡¢¼ÓÄĂ´ó¡¢ĂÀ¹ú¡¢µÂ¹ú¡¢°Ä´óÀûÑÇ¡¢Đ¼ÓÆ¡¢º«¹ú£º ×Ê·ÑΪ£¤0.32Ôª/·ÖÖÓ£¬Î̃ÊĐ»°·Ñ£¬Í¨»°Đ§¹ûÓÅÓÚ¹úÄÚIP³¤Í¾£» ÈƠ±¾¡¢°ÂµØÀû¡¢±ÈÀûʱ¡¢µ¤Âó¡¢·̉À¼¡¢·¨¹ú¡¢°®¶ûÀ¼¡¢̉â´óÀû¡¢ºÉÀ¼¡¢ĐÂÎ÷À¼¡¢Î÷°àÑÀ¡¢Â¬É­±¤¡¢ ŲÍ₫¡¢Èđµä¡¢ÈđÊ¿£º×Ê·ÑΪ£¤0.35Ôª/·ÖÖÓ£¬Î̃ÊĐ»°·Ñ£¬Í¨»°Đ§¹ûÓÅÓÚ¹úÄÚIP³¤Í¾. Net2phoneÍøÂçµç»°ƠʺÅĂæÖµ£ºUS$10,US$25£¬̉Ô1US$=8RMBÓÅ»ƯÏúÊÛ. InnomediaÍøÂçµç»°Ïă¸Û°üÔ¿¨: ÓÉInnomediaרΪÏă¸ÛÍƳöµÄÍøÂçµç»°°üÔ¿¨¡£30̀́Ö®ÄÚÈÎ̉Ⲧ´̣Ïă¸Ûµç»°£¨º¬ÊÖ»ú£©£¬²»Ï̃ʱ¼ä£¬²»Ï̃´ÎÊư£¬Ö»Đè198Ôª£¡³¬ÖµÏíÊÜ£¡ ÊÀ½ç¸÷µØ¾ù¿ÉʹÓĂ£¡½ÓͨѸËÙ! »°̉ôÇåÎú£¡Ïë´̣¶à¾Ă£¬¾Í´̣¶à¾Ă£¡ Ë«»ú¶Ô´̣£¬È«Ç̣Ψ̉»Ê¶±đºÅÂ룬ÍêÈ«Ăâ·Ñ¡£ InnomediaÍøÂçµç»°ƠʺÅĂæÖµ£ºUS$10,US$20£¬̉Ô1US$=8RMBÓÅ»ƯÏúÊÛ; Ïă¸ÛÍøÂçµç»°°üÔ¿¨198ÔªÈËĂñ±̉. ÍøͨWebµç»°¿¨£¬£¨Ô­Á¢Í¨¿¨£©£º ÔÚÍø̉³Éϲ¦ºÅ£¬Î̃ĐëÏÂÔØ°²×°Èí̀塣ͨ»°·ÑÂʵÍÖÁ0.33Ôª/·ÖÖÓ¡£ ĂæÖµ£¤50Ôª¡¢£¤100Ôª¡¢£¤200Ôª (95ƠÛ·¢ÊÛ) eTalkÍøÂçµç»°¿¨£º ĂÀ¹ú£¬ÖĐ¹ú¡¢Ïă¸Û¡¢̀¨Íå¡¢º«¹ú¡¢Ó¢¹ú¡¢ĂÀ¹ú¡¢¼ÓÄĂ´ó¡¢µÂ¹ú¡¢°Ä´óÀûÑÇ¡¢Đ¼ÓƵķÑÂÊΪ4ĂÀ·Ö/·ÖÖÓ£¬¼´Îª£º0.32Ôª/·ÖÖÓ °ÂµØÀû¡¢µ¤Âó¡¢·̉À¼¡¢·¨¹ú¡¢°®¶ûÀ¼¡¢̉â´óÀû¡¢ÈƠ±¾¡¢ÂíÀ´Î÷ÑÇ¡¢ºÉÀ¼¡¢ĐÂÎ÷À¼¡¢Å²Í₫¡¢Î÷°àÑÀ¡¢ÈđÊ¿¡¢ÈđµäµÈ¹ú¼̉µÄ·ÑÂÊΪ 5-7ĂÀ·Ö/·ÖÖÓ È«ÊÀ½ç´̣»ØÖĐ¹ú0.03ĂÀÔª/·ÖÖÓ.¼´0.24Ôª/·ÖÖÓ. Ë«·½Í¬Ê±Ê¹ÓĂĂâ·Ñ eTalkÍøÂçµç»°ƠʺÅĂæÖµ£ºUS$10, ̉Ô1US$=8RMBÓÅ»ƯÏúÊÛ. ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ ƠĐÉ̀̉øĐĐ×îĐÂÍƳö£º"¸öÈË̉øĐĐר̉µ°æ"£¬ÉêÇëר̉µ°æµÄÓĂ»§¿É̉ÔÔÚµçÄÔÉÏתƠʼ°²éѯÓà¶î.¿Í»§Ä¿Ç°¿Éͨ¹ưƠĐÉ̀̉øĐĐÍøÉÏÖ§¸¶·½Ê½ÔÚÏßÖ§¸¶£¬È»ºóͨ¹ưµç»°Í¬Î̉¹«Ë¾¿Í»§·₫ÎñÖĐĐÄÁªÏµ£¬±ă¿ÉµĂµ½ÄúËù¹ºẬµÄÉ̀Æ·¡£ °Û¶¼¹ú¼ÊÓĐÏ̃¹«Ë¾ Tel: 0755-26648962, 26406498 Fax: 0755-26648156 Web:http://szptt.online4sale.com Email: sales@netpcphone-china.com ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From mgm-ns@tardis.net Mon Oct 7 09:49:19 2002 From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 19:49:19 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Virus hoax involving jdbgmgr.exe file In-Reply-To: <006e01c26d8e$2e674a60$d8218790@telstra.com> References: <006e01c26d8e$2e674a60$d8218790@telstra.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:11:22 +1000, you wrote: >see ref below. sorry!! i got the original info from a good source so didn't check. > >better safe than sorry. these viruses etc. are a real pain!! Unfortunately "better safe than sorry" is exactly the response the originators of the hoax are looking for so you unwittingly keep the hoax alive by forwarding the message onto others. Better to check with one of the virus myths Web sites or ask a virus expert before forwarding the warning on to all those in your address book. When this hoax first appeared it was not uncommon at work to see hundreds of copies of the message with multiple cc's as people "warned" all their friends. -- Best wishes, Malcolm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From sales@al-ilmiyah.com Mon Oct 7 12:50:51 2002 From: sales@al-ilmiyah.com (DKI) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:50:51 +0200 Subject: [LINK] Arabic & Islamic Books Message-ID: <0H3M005RF0SX5N@typhoon.idm.net.lb> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/f8a8b249/attachment.htm From ptrei@rsasecurity.com Mon Oct 7 14:26:49 2002 From: ptrei@rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:26:49 -0400 Subject: [OT Canute] Re: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] Message-ID: > Robin Whittle[SMTP:rw@firstpr.com.au] wrote: > . [lots of good stuff about the music business clipped] > I think this is an accurate analysis of a really sad situation. Like > King Canute, the record companies are devoting most of their thinking > and resources to holding back the tide. > [even more good stuff clipped] In the interests of pedantry and accuracy, may I point out that Canute did not actually expect to hold back the tide. Canute was an an early Danish king of northern England, living ~995-1035. Like most modern leaders, he was surrounded by yes-men. Unlike them, he did something about it: --------------------- [From http://viking.no/e/people/e-knud.htm] "Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings. For there is none worthy of the name but God, whom heaven, earth and sea obey". So spoke King Canute the Great, the legend says, seated on his throne on the seashore, waves lapping round his feet. Canute had learned that his flattering courtiers claimed he was "So great, he could command the tides of the sea to go back". Now Canute was not only a religious man, but also a clever politician. He knew his limitations - even if his courtiers did not - so he had his throne carried to the seashore and sat on it as the tide came in, commanding the waves to advance no further. When they didn't, he had made his point that, though the deeds of kings might appear 'great' in the minds of men, they were as nothing in the face of God's power. ------------------------ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jschultz@coin.org Mon Oct 7 14:41:35 2002 From: jschultz@coin.org (John Schultz) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:41:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [OT Canute] Re: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Immunity On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: > > Robin Whittle[SMTP:rw@firstpr.com.au] wrote: > > . > [lots of good stuff about the music business clipped] > > > I think this is an accurate analysis of a really sad situation. Like > > King Canute, the record companies are devoting most of their thinking > > and resources to holding back the tide. > > > [even more good stuff clipped] > > In the interests of pedantry and accuracy, may I point out that Canute > did not actually expect to hold back the tide. Canute was an an early > Danish king of northern England, living ~995-1035. Like most modern > leaders, he was surrounded by yes-men. Unlike them, he did something > about it: > > --------------------- > [From http://viking.no/e/people/e-knud.htm] > > "Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings. > For there is none worthy of the name but God, whom heaven, earth > and sea obey". > > So spoke King Canute the Great, the legend says, seated on his throne > on the seashore, waves lapping round his feet. Canute had learned that > his flattering courtiers claimed he was "So great, he could command the > tides of the sea to go back". Now Canute was not only a religious man, > but also a clever politician. He knew his limitations - even if his > courtiers > did not - so he had his throne carried to the seashore and sat on it as the > tide came in, commanding the waves to advance no further. When they > didn't, he had made his point that, though the deeds of kings might appear > 'great' in the minds of men, they were as nothing in the face of God's > power. > > ------------------------ > John Schultz jschultz@coin.org ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jschultz@coin.org Mon Oct 7 14:59:04 2002 From: jschultz@coin.org (John Schultz) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:59:04 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [OT Canute] Re: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My apologies to everyone for this inscrutable email, I replied to the wrong email in my inbox and inadvertently sent it instead of the reply being cancelled as I had thought. On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, John Schultz wrote: > Immunity > > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: > > > > Robin Whittle[SMTP:rw@firstpr.com.au] wrote: > > > . > > [lots of good stuff about the music business clipped] > > > > > I think this is an accurate analysis of a really sad situation. Like > > > King Canute, the record companies are devoting most of their thinking > > > and resources to holding back the tide. > > > > > [even more good stuff clipped] > > > > In the interests of pedantry and accuracy, may I point out that Canute > > did not actually expect to hold back the tide. Canute was an an early > > Danish king of northern England, living ~995-1035. Like most modern > > leaders, he was surrounded by yes-men. Unlike them, he did something > > about it: > > > > --------------------- > > [From http://viking.no/e/people/e-knud.htm] > > > > "Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings. > > For there is none worthy of the name but God, whom heaven, earth > > and sea obey". > > > > So spoke King Canute the Great, the legend says, seated on his throne > > on the seashore, waves lapping round his feet. Canute had learned that > > his flattering courtiers claimed he was "So great, he could command the > > tides of the sea to go back". Now Canute was not only a religious man, > > but also a clever politician. He knew his limitations - even if his > > courtiers > > did not - so he had his throne carried to the seashore and sat on it as the > > tide came in, commanding the waves to advance no further. When they > > didn't, he had made his point that, though the deeds of kings might appear > > 'great' in the minds of men, they were as nothing in the face of God's > > power. > > > > ------------------------ > > > > John Schultz > jschultz@coin.org > John Schultz jschultz@coin.org ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From bill.stewart@pobox.com Mon Oct 7 20:43:26 2002 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 13:43:26 -0700 Subject: [OT Canute] Re: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021007133538.02aeadb0@idiom.com> > > Robin Whittle[SMTP:rw@firstpr.com.au] wrote: > > . >[lots of good stuff about the music business clipped] > > > I think this is an accurate analysis of a really sad situation. Like > > King Canute, the record companies are devoting most of their thinking > > and resources to holding back the tide. As Peter points out, Canute actually did have the clue that the record companies don't. One place I lived in New Jersey was in Sea Bright, which is a sand bar just south of Sandy Hook beach. Two hundred years ago, it was an island, and it's trying to become an island again. The Army Core of Engineers, however, keeps trying to tell the tides to stop, primarily by pouring a few million dollars worth of cement into the sea wall and road foundations every decade or so. In some sense, it may be worthwhile, since the value of the houses that they're protecting is higher than that, but while I knew I was renting the house I was living in, some of my neighbors their thought they owned something other than a bit of drifting sand. Perhaps the record companies need to see what equivalents of pilings or surfboards they can find for their business models. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From schear@lvcm.com Mon Oct 7 21:51:54 2002 From: schear@lvcm.com (Steve Schear) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:51:54 -0700 Subject: [OT Canute] Re: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021007133538.02aeadb0@idiom.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021007144724.04b60d48@pop3.lvcm.com> At 01:43 PM 10/7/2002 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: Perhaps the record companies need to see what equivalents of >pilings or surfboards they can find for their business models. Eventually they will have to come to terms with the fact that what technology (e.g., Thomas Edison and the phonograph) can grant, technology (the Internet, digital reproduction and P2P) can take away. But that day still looks to be far off. They've got lots of money and are no where near thinking about throwing in the towl. "[I]t is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." --Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Mon Oct 7 22:38:19 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:38:19 +1000 Subject: [LINK] CFP: Computers, Freedom & Privacy - NY 1-4 Apr 03 Message-ID: CFP2003: The Thirteenth Conference on Computers, Freedom & Privacy Freedom to Move, Think and Speak! New York, NY April 1-4, 2003 CALL FOR PROPOSALS http://www.cfp2003.org/submissions/ The Program Committee of the Thirteenth Conference on Computers, Freedom, and Privacy (CFP2003) seeks your proposals for innovative conference sessions and speakers. The Computers, Freedom & Privacy Conference has been a leading venue for public debate on the future of privacy and freedom in the online world for over a decade. Each year, key representatives from government, business, education, and non-profits including the legal, law enforcement, security, media, consumer, and hacker communities have gathered together to anticipate policy trends and issues and to help map the future of society in the online world. Attendees will meet again next April to address cutting edge questions and issues in computing, freedom and privacy. We are planning for the 2003 conference to have a global reach. The conference's site, New York is one of the media and International capitals of the world and offers an opportunity to attract a geographically and culturally diverse audience. The CFP 2003 Program Committee has tentatively decided on the theme of "Freedom to move, think and speak". Proposals are welcomed on all aspects of this theme, but they may cover any other aspects of computers, freedom, and privacy. Links to past conference programs can be found at http://www.cfp.org/. We are seeking proposals for tutorials, plenary sessions, workshops, technical demonstrations, and birds-of-a-feather sessions. We are also seeking suggestions for speakers and topics. Sessions should present a wide range of thinking on a topic by including speakers from different viewpoints. Complete submission instructions appear on the CFP2002 web site at http://www.cfp2003.org/submissions/ All submissions must be received by November 15, 2002 to receive priority consideration. Proposals will be reviewed by the CFP2003 Program Committee and Advisory Board. The Program Committee will notify submitters of the status of proposals no later than January 1, 2003. Thank you for your interest and we look forward to hearing from you. Barry Steinhardt Chair CFP 2003 -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor, Uni of Hong Kong, Dept of Comp Sci and Info Sys Visiting Fellow, Australian National University, Dept of Comp Sci ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Mon Oct 7 23:30:27 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:30:27 +1000 Subject: [LINK] RE: Jdbgmgr.exe file hoax Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE21@EXCHANGE_AU> About hoaxes and social engineering... ...first, the virus hoax created a mailstorm because everyone who received the hoax warning passed it on to everyone they knew to warn them... ...now, a new hoax creates a mailstorm of people telling the first reporter "it's a hoax", when once would be enough... RC > -----Original Message----- > From: Rachel Polanskis [mailto:grove@zeta.org.au] > Sent: Monday, 7 October 2002 11:36 > To: Josh Rowe > Cc: 'Ann Moffatt'; 'Link List' > Subject: Re: [LINK] RE: Jdbgmgr.exe file hoax > > > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Josh Rowe wrote: > > > Jdbgmgr.exe file hoax > > > http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html > > > > JDBGMGR.EXE - New name. Same old hoax. > > http://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa050702a.htm > > > > Jdbgmgr.exe hoax > > http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99436.htm > > > It's a "social engineering" exploit! > As discussed in Link a few weeks ago, no one really knows > what those pesky files > are on your PC anymore and so people are vulnerable if they > receive an email saying > the prescence of something is a "virus", even if it isn't. > > I guess this one cannot be blamed on MS - it's just a crafty > trick by someone > too slack to write source code ;) > > > rachel > > -- > Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western > Sydney, Australia > grove@zeta.org.au > http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html > "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors > (Seachange) > > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Oct 8 00:55:26 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:55:26 +1000 Subject: [LINK] How many patches? Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE23@EXCHANGE_AU> One linker said "60 patches", another says "six". So I looked over the MS site... For MS XP there have been three service packs (accumulative more than half a gig, at least that's what I glean from the site). Security bulletins: there are 54 in the 2002 series. I didn't read all of them, but from MS02-001 to MS02-021 there are ten "user" bulletins, the rest are "administrator" bulletins (of course, some are both, an admin needs to fix user machines, but I'm sticking to a consumer/business split here). All the user bulletins included a patch to download. We're up to number 54 for the year, so if the number held true there would be 27 user bulletins, each with a patch to download. That's not sixty, but it's not six either. The user could simply wait. Don't apply the patch until it's released in a service pack. But there, you have a problem: you remain exposed between the date of the exploit and the date of the service pack. "Patch immediately" is the advice given by M$ for most of the user-level patches. So we have an aggregate with service packs and patches of around 30 downloads so far this year. Which is why Bugbear took off: users don't patch - and at three patches a month, why should they? I know that hobbyists and enthusiasts will rise in outrage at this statement: but an ordinary consumer simply shouldn't have to devote that much time and attention to massaging the PC. There's also the sordid matter of money. Were I following this behaviour, I would have made 30 calls to the ISP just for MS updates (not counting any data charges I might incur). For that, I get nothing, in terms of extra functionality - the user spends the update money for no benefit except to stand still. The machine still crashes, and next week there'll still be another download or patch, and around we go. Let alone the cost to the economy of tens of thousands of people downloading tens of thousands of gigabytes to achieve almost nothing... Richard Chirgwin ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au Tue Oct 8 01:13:40 2002 From: carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au (Carl Makin) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:13:40 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Long-term Linux half the price of Windows References: <20021001145817.G5697@aurema.com> <20021002024333.GD4817@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <3DA23144.2030405@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au> Craig Sanders wrote >a single high-end sun box may support many more apache virtual servers >than a single linux box but that single sun box costs orders of >magnitude more than a good linux PC. > Not if you're comparing Apples to Apples. :) A high end enterprise sun is not in the same class as a x86 machine running Linux. Sun make low end machines that compete in that class. Machines such as the X1, T1/AC200 and similar that are actually very cost competitive with the Dell and IBM x86 offerings. Go check out the sun website. Carl. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From bscott@gtlaw.com.au Tue Oct 8 01:46:46 2002 From: bscott@gtlaw.com.au (bscott@gtlaw.com.au) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:46:46 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear Message-ID: > Brendan and other legal eagles, would that help the situation at all? Well, I think I have to say that this is the most debated (virulent?) thread I've started so far... In relation to imposing liability on software developers... I think that you'll find that the more regulation you apply to things the more you tend to favour companies with the resources capable of complying with those regulations. In general this means larger companies have an easier time of it all. In terms of product liability for software, I think this is a problematic area because software is more the output of providing a service rather than a product per se, although legislatures have attempted to provide mechanisms for developers to "productise" that output. The main difficulty lies in the fact that software does what software does - it's hard to identify commonly accepted standards in relation to software - what should an email program do? What should a word processor do? Compare these to "what should a screw driver do?" or "what should a toaster do?", each of which admits of relatively clear and simple answers. The areas in which a screwdriver or toaster can go wrong are relatively restricted and, therefore, compliance or non compliance could be relatively easily determined. The same is not true for software. Another aspect of the liability discussion is whether or not companies ought to be able to "contract out" of any obligations that ought to be imposed. That is, to exclude liability as a condition of the provision of the product. The effect of an inability to contract out will be to limit the scope for vendors to manage their risk exposure - that is, all risk management would need to be in quality assurance. The likely effect of this would be to delay the release of software until it was fully quality assured. Now, on the face of it, that seems like a good thing, except in practice it will inflate software price by over testing the software (the stricter the liability, the more testing). On what basis could people make beta releases if they couldn't contract out of liability? If I'm a consumer and I understand the risks, why shouldn't I be able to agree with a vendor that their software isn't perfect, but I'm willing to use it anyway and I'll take the consequences - probably in return for a greatly reduced price? Of course, if they *are* allowed to contract out of liability, then companies with more market power will be better able to impose strong terms without affecting their sales. Perhaps the main barrier to secure systems is the absence of self help. If someone sells me a cabinet which is not quite secure, I'm allowed to weld some extra steel onto it to make it secure. Not so software. The legislature permits the productisation of software development *without* requiring disclosure of the source code for the software *and* by granting a monopoly over further development to the original developer. Just rewards arguments aside, this means that there is only one person (ie the vendor) who is able to include security features in a program or audit it for security compliance - and that person might have other priorities. That said, the law of negligence measures negligence against an evolving standard (of the reasonably skilled person carrying out the particular task) and there is nothing inherent about the law which would prevent it applying to software development. My $0.02 Brendan PS The bugbear emails I've received have decreased. They also seemed to come out in bursts. Jan Whitaker Com> cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear owner-link@www.a nu.edu.au 07/10/02 07:45 AM At 10:09 AM 6/10/02 +1000, Dassa wrote: >Why not go after all consultants and advisors also. I'm sure a number >of link participants have been responsible for some of the >infrastructure, both hardware and software, that is in use at some of >the larger organisations around the country. I don't think this is a fair assessment in this regard. We consultants [SMEs mostly] are now more than not required to carry professional indemnity insurance to cover just this type of problem, particularly if it causes harm and action is taken against us. I guess the question is really: why are MS and other commercial products allowed to get away with licenses that let them off the hook from non-performance or damages caused as a result of using their products, when clients of consultants, especially big organisation clients like government, require contracts that say us little guys take the responsibility? Maybe that is the change that should happen in corporate law, similar to what is under consideration of the AG right now with the copyright act, taking out the license language from online publishers that would nullify fair dealing. Make contract law that says that buyer beware or liability nullification is not allowed or if included, is not enforceable. Brendan and other legal eagles, would that help the situation at all? Frank said: >It all comes down to a matter of disclosure. When I buy a piece of >hardware, or a copy of an OS, or an application, the company concerned >goes to pains to remove themselves from any liability via their >'agreements' ... that are only available after I have opened the package. >And basically the 'agreements' are a simply disavowal of ANY >responsibility for product shortcomings. I read the above in a later message. Similar to what I was saying [above]. It reminded me that A Current Affair is having a story about consumer warranty and guarantee issues interviewing people at the Consumer Law Centre TONIGHT [Monday], one being Catriona Lowe who is a friend of mine. The clip shows her saying something like "a car is supposed to 'go' ". My expectation is that the product is at least supposed to do what it was purchased to 'do'. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ======================================================================= This electronic mail is solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is confidential or privileged. If you receive this electronic mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify the sender by electronic mail or using any of the following. Brendan Scott Lawyer GILBERT + TOBIN Phone: +612 9263 4230 GPO Box 3810 Facsimile: +612 9263 4111 SYDNEY NSW 2001 Email: bscott@gtlaw.com.au AUSTRALIA Website: http://www.gtlaw.com.au Liability limited by the Solicitors Scheme approved under the Professional Standards Act 1994 (NSW). ======================================================================= ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au Tue Oct 8 01:46:53 2002 From: carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au (Carl Makin) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:46:53 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Webserver unavailability patterns References: <3.0.5.32.20021003101551.007a3bd0@mail.dot.net.au> Message-ID: <3DA2390D.8030801@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au> David Lochrin wrote: > Quite some time ago I found that the National Library http://www.nla.gov.au became unavailable. A recent email to NOIE, who I believe host NLA, elicited the helpful response "It works for me. > No, NLA host it themselves. Carl. ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dave77mccarthy@mail.com Wed Oct 9 03:29:05 2002 From: dave77mccarthy@mail.com (McCarthy DAVE) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 03:29:05 Subject: [LINK] i need your assistance Message-ID: <200210080215.g982FUVp011664@anumail5.anu.edu.au> FIRST SECURITIES DISCOUNT HOUSE LIMITED > FROM: McCARTHY DAVE > E-MAIL: dave77mccarthy@mail.com > > DEAR SIR, > > I am MR McCARTHY DAVE, the Director Of Operations, FIRST SECURITIES > DISCOUNT HOUSE LIMITED, JOHANNESBURG, here in SOUTH AFRICA. > Our firm is a security company of high repute with years of > outstanding service to the people of SOUTH AFRICA. > I have resolved to contact you through this medium based on business > proposal that will of mutual benefit to both of us. I have not > discussed this transaction with anybody because of its top secret. To > be explicit and straight to the point. Sometime, early last 1997; > a reputable clients of ours deposited a consignment in our company's > vault for safe keeping. And since then our client has failed to come > forward to claim his consignment, which has accumulated a > considerable amount of money in demurrage. > Consequently, in our bid to contact this client to redeem the > demurrage which his consignment had accumulated we discovered that > our client was the former president of the Federal Republic of Zaire, > who died of illness after he was de-throned in the same year the > consignment was entrusted into our care. > Since the death of our client, President Mobutou Seseseko, none of > his benefactors has come forward to claim the consignment with us, > which means that non of his relatives or aids had any knowledge of > this consignment. Hence out of curiosity I decided to secretly open > the two boxes that our client deposited in our vault. And to my > surprise I discovered that the two boxes that were registered as > treasurer by our client actually contained a considerable amount of > money in United States Dollars amounting to about US$30million > Dollar. Since this development I have been nursing plans secretly. I > also found out from enquiries and the foreign media that our late > client siphoned a lot of money from his country while he was in > office as head of state. It is my conviction that the consignment in > our vault was part of the money that our client siphoned and now that > he is dead there is no trace to this money in our care. I am now > soliciting your noble assistance to assistant me in transferring this > money out of South Africa to your country form immediate investment > with your assistance. I have also decided that you will generously be > entitled to 40% of the total amount > Upon the receipt of your reply confirming your willingness to assist > me of this transaction, I will immediately arrange and transfer all > the right of ownership to your person to facilitate your easy > clearance and transfer of the complete funs to your country. > Secondly, I will arrange for the consignment already labelled as > family treasure to be lifted by diplomatic means to our security > company's correspondence in oversea where I will meet you. You have > nothing to worry about, as I will be there to assist you in anyway > necessary with all necessary backup. > This transaction is 100% risk free. Please reply to the above email > address. > > Thanks. > > Yours faithfully, > > McCarthy DAVE > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From grove@zeta.org.au Tue Oct 8 02:47:22 2002 From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:47:22 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Rampaging bugbear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think there is a ridiculously simple solution to the whole Microsoft patching problem. It will still not stop the completely lazy users but it will catch most of them. The simple idea is that Microsoft encourages legitimate users to register their bugware. In return, MS will send patch updates on CDROM for the lifetime of the product - in fact the update could consist of a complete OS update linked to the original license key on the afflicted PC and only work with that machine. Users would still have the opportunity to download patch updates online if they desired but since this is proving to be useless in most cases, a CDROM install is more enticing. Especially if it contained some bonus trinkets like games or demos of future releases or whatever. Of course the idea pivots on MS spending some of it's ill earned profits on actually giving away free CD's with Windows on it periodically (albeit node licensed) but I think even domestic users are less likely to ignore a nice CD in a jewel case that promises to patch or update their OS. It also means that MS has to give in a little and actually trust their customers for a change and not be such greedy weasels wrt piracy &c. The benefit to the user is that they get a CD based update for the life of the OS (they already do this for corporate customers) which can double as a coaster when you're finished with it. The benefit to MS is that they increase their loyalty base because it encourages users to license their product as they actually get something tangible in return (this CD means we're thinking of you). It would boost their whole PR image and really not cost them a whole lot in production & distribution and there's not going to be too much difference in the level of Windoze piracy too - at least those cracked OS's will be relatively secure. All it involves is a little trust from MS and a dollar or two thrown back at their licensees every now and then. Microsoft is free to use my idea on the proviso it pays me an exorbitant amount of money for thinking up the bleeding obvious. rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove@zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange) ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From usman_bellong@usa.com Mon Oct 7 15:54:36 2002 From: usman_bellong@usa.com (usman bello) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 04:54:36 +1300 Subject: [LINK] urgent business relation Message-ID: <200210080358.g983wfwT014619@anumail4.anu.edu.au> URGENT PRIVATE & EXTREMELY CONFIDENTIAL Dear sir With profound interest and utmost confidence, I am soliciting your immediate assistance or co-operation as to enable us round up an opportunity within my capability as a result of the death of one of our contractor (Beneficiary). I am usman bello Auditor, Special Project and Foreign Contract Regularization and Disbursement, in the Office of the Auditor General of the Federation of Federal Republic of Nigeria. We work in hand with the Senate Committee on Foreign Contract Payment. Our duty is to ensure that all contractors are paid their contract sum indue time. This last payment quarter, a total of 30 contractors were shortlisted for payment and about 25 of them have been paid remaining about 5 (Five), information reaching this office indicates that one among the remaining has been reported dead. His name is Mr.Gerrand Schwartz from Sweden, he died in the last Air France Concorde plane crash. Mean while he finished the execution of his contract December 19th 1999. But since his death, nobody has come forward to put a claim to his contract fund which i! s about US$15,000,000.00 Million (Fifteen Million U.S Dollars) that is why I need your immediate assistance to expedite the transfer of the contract am! ount. With my position as a Director in the Department of Contract Regularisation and Disbursement, I will regularize all the necessary documents and present your company as the bona-fide beneficiary of this fund in as much as you respond within 48hours in respect of this important message. Your unreserved cooperation in this business is just what we require for a successful and hitch free transaction. Necessary measures to ensure a risk free and fool proof transaction and confidentiality has been taken. Kindly signify your interest by replying via my personal e mail address above. Upon receipt of your positive reply we shall discuss on (1) Basic Program for Operation (2)Financial Status as t! o ascertain your capability. Upon completion of this transaction I have decided to give you 30% of the total sum, 60% of the fund which is our share will be used for investment in your company or in any other company of our choice. Whi! le 10% has been mapped out to take care of any minor expenses incurred. Take note that this project will last for only 10 working days. If this is okey with you, your bank information is needed,to enable us secure payment approval in your favour,also you are to forward your communication link for easier communications. I expect your response in time (within 48 hours) as time is of great essence in this transaction God Bless and Kind Regards, usman bello please kindly reply to my private email address usman_bellong@myself.com ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Oct 8 04:58:18 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 14:58:18 +1000 Subject: [LINK] words from the 'past' Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021008145744.02c05b10@pop.primenet.com> History sure is being re-written at the moment, isn't it? Jan > From 1997 an article by then-senator Ashcroft about computer encryption >and the Clinton administration: > >Keep Big Brother's Hands Off The Internet By Senator John Ashcroft >http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itgic/1097/ijge/gj-7.htm > >There is a concern that the Internet could be used to commit crimes and >that advanced encryption could disguise such activity. However, we do >not provide the government with phone jacks outside our homes for >unlimited wiretaps. Why, then, should we grant government the Orwellian >capability to listen at will and in real time to our communications >across the Web? > >The protections of the Fourth Amendment are clear. The right to >protection from unlawful searches is an indivisible American value. Two >hundred years of court decisions have stood in defense of this >fundamental right. The state's interest in effective crime-fighting >should never vitiate the citizens' Bill of Rights. > > > >The administration's interest in all e-mail is a wholly unhealthy >precedent, especially given this administration's track record on FBI >files and IRS snooping. Every medium by which people communicate can be >subject to exploitation by those with illegal intentions. Nevertheless, >this is no reason to hand Big Brother the keys to unlock our e-mail >diaries, open our ATM records, read our medical records, or translate >our international communications. > >Additionally, the full potential of the Internet will never be realized >without a system that fairly protects the interests of those who use the >Internet for their businesses, own copyrighted material, deliver that >material via the Internet, or individual users. The implications here >are far-reaching, with impacts that touch individual users, companies, >libraries, universities, teachers, and students. JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au Tue Oct 8 05:01:49 2002 From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:01:49 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Enum musings Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> Linkers, As a tech journalist, my clear duty is as follows: 1) Hype Enum; 2) Quote analysts who hype Enum; 3) Find advocates who will help hype Enum; 4) Hype VC-funded crooks and shysters setting up Enum-based share bubbles (Headline sample: "Anywhere, Anytime with RichardEnum" ... "RichardEnum Inc hits $US80" ... "RichardEnum: What Went Wrong" and so on); and 5) Act smug if it crashes, and start hyping the next Big Thing... ...but I'm having trouble getting excited about Enum. Indulge me, Linkers, and forgive this diversion. Roger already has made some remarks about ENUM (see ), so I'm not going to rehash his privacy arguments. But the creature itself seems pretty ill-conceived - it has all the hallmarks of "wow, that's neat!" engineering in which the negatives are lost in the wonderfulness of it all... a) Enum is a proposal for a number-mapping database, so that +612 5555 5555 can be mapped to owner.domain.arpa (or whatever). The authors seem to envisage it as being analogous to other domain models. Here, I suspect, is the reason that the telecomms industry is keen on Enum; not because it solves any pressing user need; but because like URL registration, Enum registration would be a source of income - "just $200 gets you your very own single-number for two years!!!" If something is sufficiently ubiquitous, users will eventually lack choice; instead of "you can have Enum", the movement will be towards "you must have Enum"; and those who own and administer the database will have a pretty lazy source of income. Remember, there's a big interest at stake here; there are (say) ten million houshold numbers in Australia. The registration revenue could be in the hundreds of millions. So pro-Enum lobbying will be vocal and well-funded (and, I guess, the lobbyists will start by calling for a monopoly, which the losers will immediately lobby to have broken up). b) Enum seems to assume a fairly simple set of relationships, ie Richard is the "owner" of an e-mail address; a mobile phone number; a home telephone; a fax machine. Out in the real world, all of these are capable of overlapping ownership; I may share my e-mail and home phone, but not my mobile phone; my wife may share her work phone with someone, her home phone (with me!), and so on. Assuming a unidirectional hierarchy, ie "one owner devolves to a set of addresses" but not "one address devolves to a set of owners" seems at odds with normal human behaviour. Yes, I'm aware that there are behavioural, process or technical workarounds for this issue; but workarounds exist because something is wrong... c) Robustness: a threat introduced by Enum is that it migrates "contactability" onto the public network. Today, contactability resides separately from the telephone - in the SS7 network, which is not directly available to the public network. Not so a domain database: visibility is implicit in the architecture. It would be feasible to render all Enum users in a given domain uncontactable, merely by way of a denial-of-service attack on the database. d) User workload: Enum imposes a self-administration load on users, merely for the privilege of receiving a call. Let's compare scenarios. WITHOUT ENUM: To get in touch with Richard, the caller decides whether to phone (and which number of three to use) or e-mail (and which of two addresses to use). Richard receives either the call or e-mail with no effort (but some delay, depending on the number/address used etc). WITH ENUM: If Richard is at home, with three out of four methods available (home phone, mobile and e-mail), Richard has to: * decide how he is available 'now'; and * configure the decision into a telecommunicatios application. Even if this is (to a degree) automated, it means that what is now frictionless becomes a matter of self-service administration - frankly, a pain in the neck. But automation would not be complete - because if I configure a 'normal' communication pattern into my Enum application, then ANY exception will require action. IOW, the Enum user could easily end up enslaved to making themselves available, instead of merely deciding "do I answer the phone?" Even the most devoted gadgeteer will get sick of reconfiguring their 'availability' or 'location' etc every few minutes. Note that there is a reversal of onus implicit in Enum. Today, the onus is on the caller to find the address/number to use for Richard (even for spam). This is proper, even if it's seen as inconvenient (the greatest inconvenience is to the telemarketing business, incidentally a big customer of telecommunications which needs money at the moment...). Under Enum, the onus is on the user to manage contactability/availability/choice of device etc. e) Functionality At the moment, much of the public commentary says "look at all this neat stuff you can do!" And criticism is levelled mostly towards regulators for not moving fast enough. Remeber, this is criticism that regulators are slow to endorse what is an IETF drat... There are things that Enum can't do - for just one example, I don't see any provision in the standard for one physical line servicing multiple numbers (eg, a PABX). It's half-baked - and certainly unready for the imprint of governments... Richard Chirgwin ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au Tue Oct 8 05:52:29 2002 From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:52:29 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: IT contracts threaten local laws Message-ID: <200210080552.g985qXq8025867@anumail3.anu.edu.au> further to the thread on software liability... --------- begin fwd -------- IT contracts threaten local laws Karen Dearne, OCTOBER 08, 2002 ONLINE contracts and licensing agreements are being used to strip consumers of significant rights, a local study has found. The Copyright Law Review Committee says software and content vendors are imposing terms and conditions that appear to override consumer protections in copyright law. It calls for an end to the practice, and recommends amending the law to ensure consumer protections cannot be dodged in digital contracts. The CLRC report, Copyright and Contract, has been released by federal Attorney-General Daryl Williams, who commissioned it a year ago. "A key recommendation is that the Copyright Act be amended so that agreements or provisions that exclude or modify the exceptions in the Act have no effect," Mr Williams said. [snip] --------------- ends ---------- ______________________________________________________________________ eric@ironclad.net.au i r o n c l a d n e t w o r k s information architect http://www.ironclad.net.au/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Tue Oct 8 06:11:37 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:11:37 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Enum musings In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: "Chirgwin, Richard" ... draft article that needs to be published, omitted for brevity ... This is a response to just one specific point RC made: >Under Enum, the onus is on the user to manage >contactability/availability/choice of device etc. I'm a moderately mobile person, and use my portable as my desk machine when I'm at home. I've had a bit of bother sorting out the most appropriate way to use Apple's Location Manager in order to have the machine adapt to its surroundings as transparently, quickly and reliably as possible. (Location Manager records clusters of settings for such things as TCP/IP, VPN, Modem, Dialup scripts and telephone numbers, printer, time-zone, etc.). I currently have the following settings: - home-office when connected via the hub and router (normal at-home setting); - home-office when connected directly to the ADSL 'modem' (rare, but needed if the router packs it in ...); - travelling in Australia, using internal 56Kb modem and dialup to ISP; - travelling overseas, ditto - needs one for each relevant country, because of the variation in the number to dial, and the time-zone; - connected to a client's Ethernet, where the client uses DHCP; - connected to a client's Ethernet where the client *doesn't* use DHCP, and therefore I need to remember what IP-Address I borrowed last time - needs one per client. Now overlay all of that with the need to think through which number(s) I want to be reachable on at any given time, based on such considerations as my need to be reachable (which differs between clients and family), and the costs involved. The costs depend on the current terms applicable to each device and connection-type - and they vary often and a lot, e.g. as I move around, but also as the service-provider changes the tariff. As RC put it, "IOW, the Enum user could easily end up enslaved to making themselves available, instead of merely deciding "do I answer the phone?" Even the most devoted gadgeteer will get sick of reconfiguring their 'availability' or 'location' etc every few minutes". But if marketers would like it, you can bet it will be foisted on the consumer. -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor, Uni of Hong Kong, Dept of Comp Sci and Info Sys Visiting Fellow, Australian National University, Dept of Comp Sci ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From at@ah.net Tue Oct 8 06:17:17 2002 From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:17:17 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Enum musings In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021008161541.0688ae40@pop> >Here, I suspect, is the reason that the telecomms industry is keen on Enum; >not because it solves any pressing user need; but because like URL >registration, Enum registration would be a source of income - "just $200 >gets you your very own single-number for two years!!!" Gosh: 8825.6111.inoz.com so what? Anyone want an INOZ ENUM! Only $199.99! Credit cards or BPAY accepted! >If something is sufficiently ubiquitous, users will eventually lack choice; >instead of "you can have Enum", the movement will be towards "you must have >Enum"; and those who own and administer the database will have a pretty lazy >source of income. Goh, you MUST have an INOZ.COM enum otherwise you'll never be representing your country and the pride you have in being Australian! GET it QUICK! Before someone else does! BTW, what happens when I change phone numbers and a fe months later someone gets my new one? ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From james.pearce@zdnet.com.au Tue Oct 8 06:26:21 2002 From: james.pearce@zdnet.com.au (James Pearce) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:26:21 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Enum musings References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <051901c26e93$9e536ab0$e4e90ccb@meganmcauliffe> As far as I can tell, ENUM was originally designed simply to allow VoIP databases to interconnect easily. The actual software/standard was described to me as "ridiculously simple". However, the concept allows a whole lot of other things to be done, which means that the regulators have to get their act together. I don't think users will be charged to have an ENUM, I think they will automatically have it if they use a VoIP service. I think a 'specific' ENUM number will be offered by companies offering services, such as organising your inbound calls (as you said), although I think the fact that you can have more than one person on a number (eg at home) is seen as one of the selling points-ie you have greater control over how that phone is used (I forget the exact details). The thing I find interesting is that with ENUM you don't need a telephone to have a phone number. I haven't heard anything I thought was particularly wrong with ENUM, but I haven't heard anything I think is particularly good either. James ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chirgwin, Richard" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 3:01 PM Subject: [LINK] Enum musings > Linkers, > > As a tech journalist, my clear duty is as follows: > 1) Hype Enum; > 2) Quote analysts who hype Enum; > 3) Find advocates who will help hype Enum; > 4) Hype VC-funded crooks and shysters setting up Enum-based share bubbles > (Headline sample: "Anywhere, Anytime with RichardEnum" ... "RichardEnum Inc > hits $US80" ... "RichardEnum: What Went Wrong" and so on); and > 5) Act smug if it crashes, and start hyping the next Big Thing... > > ...but I'm having trouble getting excited about Enum. Indulge me, Linkers, > and forgive this diversion. > > Roger already has made some remarks about ENUM (see > ), so I'm not going to > rehash his privacy arguments. > > But the creature itself seems pretty ill-conceived - it has all the > hallmarks of "wow, that's neat!" engineering in which the negatives are lost > in the wonderfulness of it all... > > a) Enum is a proposal for a number-mapping database, so that +612 5555 5555 > can be mapped to owner.domain.arpa (or whatever). The authors seem to > envisage it as being analogous to other domain models. > > Here, I suspect, is the reason that the telecomms industry is keen on Enum; > not because it solves any pressing user need; but because like URL > registration, Enum registration would be a source of income - "just $200 > gets you your very own single-number for two years!!!" > > If something is sufficiently ubiquitous, users will eventually lack choice; > instead of "you can have Enum", the movement will be towards "you must have > Enum"; and those who own and administer the database will have a pretty lazy > source of income. > > Remember, there's a big interest at stake here; there are (say) ten million > houshold numbers in Australia. The registration revenue could be in the > hundreds of millions. So pro-Enum lobbying will be vocal and well-funded > (and, I guess, the lobbyists will start by calling for a monopoly, which the > losers will immediately lobby to have broken up). > > > b) Enum seems to assume a fairly simple set of relationships, ie Richard is > the "owner" of an e-mail address; a mobile phone number; a home telephone; a > fax machine. > > Out in the real world, all of these are capable of overlapping ownership; I > may share my e-mail and home phone, but not my mobile phone; my wife may > share her work phone with someone, her home phone (with me!), and so on. > > Assuming a unidirectional hierarchy, ie "one owner devolves to a set of > addresses" but not "one address devolves to a set of owners" seems at odds > with normal human behaviour. > > Yes, I'm aware that there are behavioural, process or technical workarounds > for this issue; but workarounds exist because something is wrong... > > > c) Robustness: a threat introduced by Enum is that it migrates > "contactability" onto the public network. Today, contactability resides > separately from the telephone - in the SS7 network, which is not directly > available to the public network. Not so a domain database: visibility is > implicit in the architecture. > > It would be feasible to render all Enum users in a given domain > uncontactable, merely by way of a denial-of-service attack on the database. > > > d) User workload: Enum imposes a self-administration load on users, merely > for the privilege of receiving a call. Let's compare scenarios. > > WITHOUT ENUM: > To get in touch with Richard, the caller decides whether to phone (and which > number of three to use) or e-mail (and which of two addresses to use). > Richard receives either the call or e-mail with no effort (but some delay, > depending on the number/address used etc). > > WITH ENUM: > If Richard is at home, with three out of four methods available (home phone, > mobile and e-mail), Richard has to: > * decide how he is available 'now'; and > * configure the decision into a telecommunicatios application. > > Even if this is (to a degree) automated, it means that what is now > frictionless becomes a matter of self-service administration - frankly, a > pain in the neck. But automation would not be complete - because if I > configure a 'normal' communication pattern into my Enum application, then > ANY exception will require action. > > IOW, the Enum user could easily end up enslaved to making themselves > available, instead of merely deciding "do I answer the phone?" Even the most > devoted gadgeteer will get sick of reconfiguring their 'availability' or > 'location' etc every few minutes. > > Note that there is a reversal of onus implicit in Enum. Today, the onus is > on the caller to find the address/number to use for Richard (even for spam). > This is proper, even if it's seen as inconvenient (the greatest > inconvenience is to the telemarketing business, incidentally a big customer > of telecommunications which needs money at the moment...). > > Under Enum, the onus is on the user to manage > contactability/availability/choice of device etc. > > > e) Functionality > At the moment, much of the public commentary says "look at all this neat > stuff you can do!" And criticism is levelled mostly towards regulators for > not moving fast enough. Remeber, this is criticism that regulators are slow > to endorse what is an IETF drat... > > There are things that Enum can't do - for just one example, I don't see any > provision in the standard for one physical line servicing multiple numbers > (eg, a PABX). It's half-baked - and certainly unready for the imprint of > governments... > > Richard Chirgwin > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au Tue Oct 8 07:30:31 2002 From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:30:31 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Dan Gillmor: Apple stands firm against entertainment cartel Message-ID: Apple stands firm against entertainment cartel Dan Gillmor 1 Oct 2002 http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4193833.htm -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor, Uni of Hong Kong, Dept of Comp Sci and Info Sys Visiting Fellow, Australian National University, Dept of Comp Sci ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au Tue Oct 8 08:14:07 2002 From: glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au (Glen Turner) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:44:07 +0930 Subject: [LINK] Enum musings References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <3DA293CF.5030601@aarnet.edu.au> Hi Richard, > c) Robustness: a threat introduced by Enum is that it migrates > "contactability" onto the public network. Today, contactability resides > separately from the telephone - in the SS7 network, which is not directly > available to the public network. Not so a domain database: visibility is > implicit in the architecture. The flip-side of this is that users can implement intelligent telephony services, not just SS7-speaking telcos. > It would be feasible to render all Enum users in a given domain > uncontactable, merely by way of a denial-of-service attack on the database. DNS is a distributed database, so a DoS attack against the DNS isn't simple. There's plenty of room for telcos to engineer in additional robustness -- for example, by taking slave copies of each other's DNS zone files. Also, rolling out DNS is a lot easier than rolling out SS7. So each switching core could hold a DNS server, very unlike SS7. There is a policy issue here -- the ACA needs to develop the appropiate engineering standards to ensure that robustness exists, just as it has done for SS7 (well, in that case it just used a Bellcore document, but you see where I'm coming from). > WITH ENUM: > If Richard is at home, with three out of four methods available (home phone, > mobile and e-mail), Richard has to: > * decide how he is available 'now'; and > * configure the decision into a telecommunicatios application. It really depends if you want the "contact me via one number" function. People that want that now have to configure amazingly complicated call forwarding chains. Pressing a button on the most convenient phone may be better recieved. Personally, I'd be surprised if this possibility of ENUM takes off. I'd more see the reverse. People will hold down a lot more numbers -- I could give differing numbers to friends than the bank (who insist as a loan condition that they can use my number for direct marketing of thier products). > There are things that Enum can't do - for just one example, I don't see any > provision in the standard for one physical line servicing multiple numbers > (eg, a PABX). They'd buy a DNS delegation of a ENUM number range, just like buying a SS7 number range now. > It's half-baked - and certainly unready for the imprint of > governments... Parts are, parts aren't. For example, any real world deployment of ENUM is problematic in the absence of a stable implementation of DNS authentication. It's still the policy aspects that concern me most. Does the ACA even know what DNS authentication is? I also think they there is a considerable financial issue. For ENUM to work numbers will need to be cheap. No one wants to pay $200pa for a number -- you can get a mobile handset for less than that. So numbers will need to be at least two orders of magnitude cheaper than SS7 or DNS names. The obvious implication being that adopting either the ACA SS7 model or the auDA DNS name model isn't going to work. This is bad news to DNS registry companies, who I think currently see ENUM as another revenue source. Cheers, Glen Disclaimer: AARNet are attempting to work with the ACA on ENUM issues, partly because we want to roll it out across our nationwide VoIP network rather than run SS7. I'm not directly involved in that work. -- Glen Turner Network Engineer (08) 8303 3936 Australian Academic and Research Network glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au http://www.aarnet.edu.au/ -- The revolution will not be televised, it will be digitised ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au Tue Oct 8 08:34:12 2002 From: glen.turner@aarnet.edu.au (Glen Turner) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:04:12 +0930 Subject: [LINK] Automatic software updates and Tripwire References: <3D9E68BE.3FA75B6E@firstpr.com.au> Message-ID: <3DA29884.1030806@aarnet.edu.au> Robin Whittle wrote: > Rick Welykochy wrote: > > >>Linux has various forms of auto-update, and I eschew the use of any of >>them. Software updating is far to complex an operation to allow a >>piece of software to do it automatically. Too many interdepencies in >>a complex system cause things to break when careful consideration is >>not given to the process. > > I run two Red Hat 7.2 machines and use the free update service, one > using my real email address and one with another address for a > fictitious version of myself. https://rhn.redhat.com Similarly, we use the "autoupdate" package. This allows us to distribute all software on our machines, not just Red Hat's patches. It also allows us to regression test an update with our application software before distributing it to all machines. I like that I can install Linux on a machine from CD, install autoupdate and automatically have the AARNet-specific configurations and programs added. This helps considerably when running up test machines, as these end up with the standard configuration with little effort, and are maintained at the standard configuration with no effort. So they don't become warez hosts a few months later. I'd say that you can't afford not to do automated software upgrade once you've got more than 20 machines. The difficulty of corporate-wide automated upgrade for Windows is one of the main reasons for its higher TCO. You might consider that we spend 0.5 staff years pa on maintaining over 50 machines scattered across Australia and the world. Because of automation that cost is relatively independent from the number of machines -- we could add another 50 without an increase in staffing. Without automation another 50 machines would require a doubling of the staffing. Sysadm is an expensive non-core activity which does nothing for the bottom line. The first priority is that sysadm be done well, because an IT failure effects operations. But the next priority is that it be done cheaply, so that revenue obtained by those operations isn't frittered away. Glen ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au Tue Oct 8 14:04:56 2002 From: ian.johnston@infobrokers.com.au (Ian Johnston) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:04:56 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Enum musings In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: > But the creature itself seems pretty ill-conceived - it has all the > hallmarks of "wow, that's neat!" engineering in which the negatives > are lost in the wonderfulness of it all... Richard Finding quality / objective information about ENUM and its benefits (IETF, ITU, IAB, ISOC, ACA, etc) was difficult as a discovered when researching for academic studies earlier this year. I read a mass of (hype) material, accessible mainly at www.ngi.org/enum/, www.cybertelecom.org/dns/enum.htm, www.itu.int/osg/spu/enum/index.html and www.aca.gov.au/committee/nsg2/enum.htm. I found little material of substance to answer the question: Will ENUM fundamentally change the way in which the Internet develops and is used? A journal article by Anthony Rutkowski (www.ngi.org/rutkowski.html), gives a unique historical and critical perspective of ENUM, examining a number of myths. See The ENUM golden tree: the quest for a universal communications identifier, Info: Journal of policy, regulation and strategy for telecommunications, information and media, vol.3, no.2, April 2001, www.ngi.org/enum/pub/info_rutkowski.pdf. Ian Johnston > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au]On > Behalf Of Chirgwin, Richard > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 3:02 PM > To: 'link@www.anu.edu.au' > Subject: [LINK] Enum musings > > > Linkers, > > As a tech journalist, my clear duty is as follows: > 1) Hype Enum; > 2) Quote analysts who hype Enum; > 3) Find advocates who will help hype Enum; > 4) Hype VC-funded crooks and shysters setting up Enum-based share bubbles > (Headline sample: "Anywhere, Anytime with RichardEnum" ... "RichardEnum Inc > hits $US80" ... "RichardEnum: What Went Wrong" and so on); and > 5) Act smug if it crashes, and start hyping the next Big Thing... > > ...but I'm having trouble getting excited about Enum. Indulge me, Linkers, > and forgive this diversion. > > Roger already has made some remarks about ENUM (see > ), so I'm not going to > rehash his privacy arguments. > > But the creature itself seems pretty ill-conceived - it has all the > hallmarks of "wow, that's neat!" engineering in which the negatives are > lost in the wonderfulness of it all... > > a) Enum is a proposal for a number-mapping database, so that +612 5555 5555 > can be mapped to owner.domain.arpa (or whatever). The authors seem to > envisage it as being analogous to other domain models. > > Here, I suspect, is the reason that the telecomms industry is keen on Enum; > not because it solves any pressing user need; but because like URL > registration, Enum registration would be a source of income - "just $200 > gets you your very own single-number for two years!!!" > > If something is sufficiently ubiquitous, users will eventually lack choice; > instead of "you can have Enum", the movement will be towards "you must have > Enum"; and those who own and administer the database will have a pretty lazy > source of income. > > Remember, there's a big interest at stake here; there are (say) ten million > houshold numbers in Australia. The registration revenue could be in the > hundreds of millions. So pro-Enum lobbying will be vocal and well-funded > (and, I guess, the lobbyists will start by calling for a monopoly, which the > losers will immediately lobby to have broken up). > > > b) Enum seems to assume a fairly simple set of relationships, ie Richard is > the "owner" of an e-mail address; a mobile phone number; a home telephone; a > fax machine. > > Out in the real world, all of these are capable of overlapping ownership; I > may share my e-mail and home phone, but not my mobile phone; my wife may > share her work phone with someone, her home phone (with me!), and so on. > > Assuming a unidirectional hierarchy, ie "one owner devolves to a set of > addresses" but not "one address devolves to a set of owners" seems at odds > with normal human behaviour. > > Yes, I'm aware that there are behavioural, process or technical workarounds > for this issue; but workarounds exist because something is wrong... > > > c) Robustness: a threat introduced by Enum is that it migrates > "contactability" onto the public network. Today, contactability resides > separately from the telephone - in the SS7 network, which is not directly > available to the public network. Not so a domain database: visibility is > implicit in the architecture. > > It would be feasible to render all Enum users in a given domain > uncontactable, merely by way of a denial-of-service attack on the database. > > > d) User workload: Enum imposes a self-administration load on users, merely > for the privilege of receiving a call. Let's compare scenarios. > > WITHOUT ENUM: > To get in touch with Richard, the caller decides whether to phone (and which > number of three to use) or e-mail (and which of two addresses to use). > Richard receives either the call or e-mail with no effort (but some delay, > depending on the number/address used etc). > > WITH ENUM: > If Richard is at home, with three out of four methods available (home phone, > mobile and e-mail), Richard has to: > * decide how he is available 'now'; and > * configure the decision into a telecommunicatios application. > > Even if this is (to a degree) automated, it means that what is now > frictionless becomes a matter of self-service administration - frankly, a > pain in the neck. But automation would not be complete - because if I > configure a 'normal' communication pattern into my Enum application, then > ANY exception will require action. > > IOW, the Enum user could easily end up enslaved to making themselves > available, instead of merely deciding "do I answer the phone?" Even the most > devoted gadgeteer will get sick of reconfiguring their 'availability' or > 'location' etc every few minutes. > > Note that there is a reversal of onus implicit in Enum. Today, the onus is > on the caller to find the address/number to use for Richard (even for spam). > This is proper, even if it's seen as inconvenient (the greatest > inconvenience is to the telemarketing business, incidentally a big customer > of telecommunications which needs money at the moment...). > > Under Enum, the onus is on the user to manage > contactability/availability/choice of device etc. > > > e) Functionality > At the moment, much of the public commentary says "look at all this neat > stuff you can do!" And criticism is levelled mostly towards regulators for > not moving fast enough. Remeber, this is criticism that regulators are slow > to endorse what is an IETF drat... > > There are things that Enum can't do - for just one example, I don't see any > provision in the standard for one physical line servicing multiple numbers > (eg, a PABX). It's half-baked - and certainly unready for the imprint of > governments... > > Richard Chirgwin > ---------- > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ > ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From k.brown@ccs.bbk.ac.uk Tue Oct 8 16:54:06 2002 From: k.brown@ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:54:06 +0100 Subject: [OT Canute] Re: [LINK] [Fwd: Interesting KPMG report on DRM] References: Message-ID: <3DA30DAE.8A2C833@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> In the interests of even more pedantry and accuracy can I point out that Canute (usually spelled "Knut" these days in solidarity with our Dansk brethren :-) was mostly a king in *Southern* England, living at Bosham near Chichester? Though at one point he ruled over all England, Denmark, and some of the bits in between as well. "Trei, Peter" wrote: > > > Robin Whittle[SMTP:rw@firstpr.com.au] wrote: > > . > [lots of good stuff about the music business clipped] > > > I think this is an accurate analysis of a really sad situation. Like > > King Canute, the record companies are devoting most of their thinking > > and resources to holding back the tide. > > > [even more good stuff clipped] > > In the interests of pedantry and accuracy, may I point out that Canute > did not actually expect to hold back the tide. Canute was an an early > Danish king of northern England, living ~995-1035. Like most modern > leaders, he was surrounded by yes-men. Unlike them, he did something > about it: ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com Tue Oct 8 21:12:09 2002 From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 07:12:09 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Enum musings In-Reply-To: <051901c26e93$9e536ab0$e4e90ccb@meganmcauliffe> References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DE29@EXCHANGE_AU> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021009070812.0234c260@pop.primenet.com> At 04:26 PM 8/10/02 +1000, James Pearce wrote: >The thing I find interesting is that with ENUM you don't need a telephone to >have a phone number. I'm not across all the details of this and have filed Richard's piece for later referal, but this concept stuck out from James' message. Question: if ENUM can result in assignment of a 'telephone' number for someone/place without a phone, isn't that a waste of a limited resource? Didn't we just go through a phone number adjustment in the past 5 years to address this issue? Maybe the return answer will be that we now have 'enough' numbers to allow for this. Well, maybe that is what is thought, but doesn't demand of lines continue to increase? I'm not across phone metrics, but I know the US had to redo many many area code assignments to get enough new numbers back into their system as well. We would still have that option, I guess. BTW, what happened to the big 'problem' of about 8-9 yrs ago about running out of IP numbers? Did that get solved? Or is that still staring us in the face as well? Just some ramblings.... Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@primenet.com -- http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm ---------- For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/ From dbni@maktoonb.com Tue Oct 8 21:42:25 2002 From: dbni@maktoonb.com (dbni) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 02 21:42:25 Greenwich Standard Time Subject: [LINK] private Message-ID: <200210082203.g98M3iq8006142@anumail3.anu.edu.au> ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NClRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSB3 YXMgc2VudCBieSBFeHByZXNzIERpcmVjdCBFbWFpbCBCbGFzdGVyIFY1LjEsIA0KeW91IGNh biBkb3dubG9hZCBpdCBmcm9tOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmZhc3RidWxrZW1haWwuY29tIA0KRXhw cmVzcyBEaXJlY3QgRW1haWwgQmxhc3RlciBpcyBhIHBvd2VyZnVsIGVtYWlsIG1hcmtldGlu ZyB0b29sISENCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCg0KDQpO byA3NiBVREVHQkUsIA0KR09WRVJOTUVOVCBSRVNJREVOVElBTCBBUkVBLg0KRU1FTkUNCkVO VUdVDQogIA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICB7VkVSWSBVUkdFTlQgQlVTSU5FU1MgVFJBTlNBQ1RJ 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