From marghanita@ramin.com.au  Fri Sep 20 01:29:23 2002
From: marghanita@ramin.com.au (M. da Cruz)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:29:23 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Re: Miserly Telstra eyes Sun's  cheap desktop suite
References: <200208192346.g7JNjxJ24757@bree.inside.interweft.com.au>
Message-ID: <3D8A79F1.42BB@ramin.com.au>

There's also a pretty compelling business cased for a large enterprise
such as Telstra to standardise to RTF - internally and externally - this
would reduce storage (and bandwidth) requirements, ensure legibility of
archived documents and influence both their customers and suppliers -
this could be one of the most significant e-commerce initiatives in
Australia...

However, such a task isn't trivial. In a time past, I had the
responsibility of selecting the WP package across an enterprise's
desktops. At the time the Vax based All-in-1 (incorporating Email,
Directory, WP, Document Management) was the standard with PCs & Macs
running terminal emulation. With hindsight my decision to go with
MSOffice has been vindicated - however, the choice was on the basis that
compared to Wordperfect, AIME(?) and probably a couple of others it was
the only package, with which, I could create a document and save it
without reading the manual and it was also available on Apple Macs.
There was a lot of discussion about the additional features available in
other packages but my view was that most people would never use these...
anyway. There ofcourse was still the requirement for compatibility with
other users and integration with email - oh how things have changed. 

Marghanita

hartr@interweft.com.au wrote:
<snip>
> Telstra is a sufficiently large organisation that it could very easily
> specify an intermediate standard such as RTF in terms of its external
> communication from its business partners. Most (all?) business partners
> would jump through that hoop to win Telstra business!
<snip>
-- 
Marghanita da Cruz 
mailto:marghanita@ramin.com.au
http://www.ramin.com.au - Tel:(+61)0414-869202
Ramin Communications - ABN 27 089 713 084


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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Sun Sep  1 10:14:28 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 20:14:28 +1000
Subject: [LINK] NOIE update  20 August 2002
Message-ID: <a05100309b9979901463a@[10.0.1.202]>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
NOIE UPDATE - 20 AUGUST 2002
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Keeping you up to date with the latest information about the
National Office for the Information Economy on http://www.noie.gov.au
and associated NOIE sites.

You have received this email because you signed up on the NOIE web site
to receive this newsletter.

To Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this service visit:

http://www.noie.gov.au/admin/subscribe/subscribe.htm

To contact the list administrator
email: info@noie.gov.au

TIP: Sometimes URLs in this newsletter will wrap across two lines and
not work when clicked on. To make these URL's work you may need to
copy and paste both sections of the URL into your web browser.

-------------------------------------------------------
NEW ON THE NOIE WEB SITE(S)
-------------------------------------------------------

1. Current NOIE consultations

To facilitate public input into the decision making processes of NOIE
a 'Currently Consulting on...' area has been created on the NOIE web
site.

Current consultations include:

- Spam Review Interim Report - Draft Recomendations

More info:
http://www.noie.gov.au/projects/consult/consult.htm

_____________________________

2. New discussion papers on Broadband in Education and Health.

NOIE has released two discussion papers "Broadband in Education:
Availability, Initiatives and Issues" and "Broadband in Health:
Drivers, Impediments and Benefits" for the second meeting of the
Broadband Advisory Group (BAG), to provide a basis for discussion
of the issues involved in the use of broadband in education and
health.

More info on BAG:
http://www.noie.gov.au/Projects/consult/BAG/index.htm

Broadband in Education discussion paper (PDF 300k):
http://www.noie.gov.au/publications/NOIE/BAG/Broadband_in_educ_Final.PDF

Broadband in Health discussion paper (PDF 300k):
http://www.noie.gov.au/publications/NOIE/BAG/Broadband_inHealth_final.PDF

_____________________________

3. July 2002 E-procurement Update newsletter released

The July 2002 NOIE eProcurement Update newsletter has been released.
eProcurement Update is an online bulletin published each month by NOIE
highlighting new approaches and developments in government eProcurement,
implementation of eProcurement solutions and case studies.

This newsletter is available as a email newsletter and also as a web
page.

Browse the newsletter at:
http://www.govonline.gov.au/projects/eprocurement/newsletter

Newsletter subscription page:
http://www.noie.gov.au/admin/subscribe/subscribe.htm

_____________________________

4. Digital Divide Cross Sector Working Group.

NOIE is participating in a Digital Divide Cross Sector Working Group.
The Group is aiming to foster greater collaboration and shared
learning around Digital Divide projects in Australia and is now
seeking digital divide projects.

More info:
http://www.noie.gov.au/Projects/access/community/digitaldivide

_____________________________

5. New service for managing .gov.au domain names.

There have recently been a number of changes in the management of
the .au domain space.  As a result of these changes the
registration and registry services previously provided by AUNIC
will no longer apply to the .gov.au domain.  NOIE has developed
a new web-based registration service to assist those applying for
or managing .gov.au domains. This service is now live.

New .gov.au domain management site:
http://www.domainname.gov.au

-------------------------------------------------------
RECENT MEDIA RELEASES
-------------------------------------------------------

1. 'Broadband for small business' guide released.

The Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the
Arts, Senator Richard Alston, welcomed the release of the
NOIE "Broadband for Small Business" guide. 7/8/02

"Broadband for Small Business" is an easy to read guide explaining
technical information and the commercial opportunities generated
by fast, always on, broadband access.

More info:
http://www.noie.gov.au/publications/media_releases/2002/Jul2002/trust.htm

Broadband for Small Business guide (HTML):
http://www.noie.gov.au/publications/NOIE/eBusiness/Broadband/index.htm

Broadband for Small Business guide (PDF - 140k):
http://www.noie.gov.au/publications/NOIE/eBusiness/Broadband/Broadband.pdf

______________________________

2. Call for public comment on Interim Spam Report.

The Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the
Arts, Senator Richard Alston, has called for public comment on
the Interim Report of the NOIE Spam Review, "The Spam Problem and
How it Can be Countered". 1/8/02

The report proposes a number of recommendations to deal with
electronic junk mail, commonly known as spam.

Public comments are specifically sought on the proposed:
- development of a widely accepted working definition of spam; and
- the new legislative options canvassed in the report.

NOIE will be accepting comments until Friday, 13 September 2002.

More info:
http://www.noie.gov.au/publications/media_releases/2002/Aug2002/spam.htm

Interim Spam Report:
http://www.noie.gov.au/spam/interimreport.

Consultation page:
http://www.noie.gov.au/projects/consult/consult.htm

-------------------------------------------------------
OTHER NEWS
-------------------------------------------------------

1. OECD releases Information Security Guidelines

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD),
of which Australia is a member, has released a new set of
Information Security Guidelines to act as an important policy
framework for the formation of e-security policies and
practices for both private and public sectors within the OECD.
12/8/02

More info on OECD guidelines:
http://www.oecd.org/EN/document/0,,EN-document-43-1-no-24-33185-0,00.html

Summary of guidelines (PDF 57k):
http://www.noie.gov.au/Projects/information_economy/e-security/OECDPress_R
elease2.pdf

______________________________

2. Current NOIE tenders.

Find out about currently open NOIE tenders at the NOIE Tenders page.
Current tenders include:

- Expression of Interest for the Design of an eBusiness Pathways
   Guide (NCON/02/25)

More info:
http://www.noie.gov.au/admin/tenders.htm

______________________________

3. NOIE mailing lists.

NOIE has a range of mailing lists available to keep you up to date with
developments across a various NOIE areas of activity. Aside from "NOIE
Update" other NOIE newsletters include:

- ITOL News (periodic)- Keep informed of applications and progress for
   the Information Technology Online program.

- eProcurement Update (monthly) - Stay up to date with all the latest
   developments in the eProcurement arena.

- Authentication (periodic)- NOIE authentication newsletter.

Subscribe to these at:
http://www.noie.gov.au/admin/subscribe/subscribe.htm

______________________________

4. NOIE Government Online seminar program

Back by popular demand are a series of free half day seminars organised
by NOIE in Canberra which cover key aspects of the use of new technologies
in Government. The seminars often feature agency case studies, and are a
great way to hear about how other organisations may have tackled similar
problems to those facing your organisation.

In 2002 NOIE will also be organising a range of other events for
government agencies, including practitioner workshops on a range of
topics. For managers with experience in particular aspects of the use
of new technologies, these informal workshops provide the opportunity
to share information about how these issues are managed in various
organisations.

Upcoming events:

Executive Breakfast Briefing:

7.00 - 8.30 am, Wednesday 18 September 2002, Rydges Lakeside
Featuring : John Rimmer, CEO, NOIE
Title:      e-Government ñ Better Government

More info:
http://www.govonline.gov.au/projects/strategy/seminars/register.htm

______________________________

5. Interact Multimedia Festival, Victoria, 2- 15 September 2002

NOIE is a Festival Endorser for the Interact Asia-Pacific Multimedia
Festival, to be held in Victoria between 2 - 15 September.
The Interact Festival is the largest ICT development event of its kind
in the Asia Pacific region.

More info:
http://www.interact2002.com.au

----------------------------------------------------------------------

NOIE UPDATE is a service of the National Office for the Information
Economy covering NOIE related news and updates to NOIE's web sites

including:

http://www.noie.gov.au and http://www.govonline.gov.au.

Visit the main NOIE home page at http://www.noie.gov.au for the
latest news.

All rights reserved. (C) Copyright Commonwealth of Australia 2002.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have received this email because you signed up on the NOIE web site
to receive this newsletter.

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http://www.noie.gov.au/admin/subscribe/subscribe.htm

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From listoid@linkalarm.com  Sun Sep  1 12:42:47 2002
From: listoid@linkalarm.com (George Bray)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:42:47 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Microsoft EULA Reference to Java
In-Reply-To: <020c53e86e3a$8675d8b4$7ab71be2@vjqtgh>
References: <020c53e86e3a$8675d8b4$7ab71be2@vjqtgh>
Message-ID: <p05111705b997b91f9f60@[192.168.1.6]>


And now, a word from our lawyers...

---
10. NOTE ON JAVA SUPPORT.  THE SOFTWARE MAY CONTAIN SUPPORT FOR 
PROGRAMS WRITTEN IN JAVA. JAVA TECHNOLOGY IS NOT FAULT TOLERANT AND 
IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED, OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS 
ONLINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING 
FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR 
FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC 
CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH 
THE FAILURE OF JAVA TECHNOLOGY COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL 
INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.  Sun 
Microsystems, Inc. has contractually obligated Microsoft to make this 
disclaimer.
---

What software would YOU run for fail-safe performance?

George Bray
Windows Patch Enthusiast
----------
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From grove@zeta.org.au  Sun Sep  1 14:21:34 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 00:21:34 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Microsoft EULA Reference to Java
In-Reply-To: <p05111705b997b91f9f60@[192.168.1.6]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209020020530.13306-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, George Bray wrote:

>
> And now, a word from our lawyers...
>
> ---
> 10. NOTE ON JAVA SUPPORT.  THE SOFTWARE MAY CONTAIN SUPPORT FOR
> PROGRAMS WRITTEN IN JAVA. JAVA TECHNOLOGY IS NOT FAULT TOLERANT AND
> IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED, OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS
> ONLINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING
> FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR
> FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC
> CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH
> THE FAILURE OF JAVA TECHNOLOGY COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL
> INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.  Sun
> Microsystems, Inc. has contractually obligated Microsoft to make this
> disclaimer.
> ---
>
> What software would YOU run for fail-safe performance?
>
> George Bray
> Windows Patch Enthusiast


I have seen this disclaimer on a lot of Sun Software, including the license
for Solaris.


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

----------
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From rick@praxis.com.au  Sun Sep  1 15:22:40 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:22:40 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Microsoft EULA Reference to Java
References: <020c53e86e3a$8675d8b4$7ab71be2@vjqtgh> <p05111705b997b91f9f60@[192.168.1.6]>
Message-ID: <3D7230C0.55216452@praxis.com.au>

George Bray wrote:
> 
> And now, a word from our lawyers...
> 
> ---
> 10. NOTE ON JAVA SUPPORT.  THE SOFTWARE MAY CONTAIN SUPPORT FOR
> PROGRAMS WRITTEN IN JAVA. JAVA TECHNOLOGY IS NOT FAULT TOLERANT AND
> IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED, OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS
> ONLINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING
> FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR
> FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC
> CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH
> THE FAILURE OF JAVA TECHNOLOGY COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL
> INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.  Sun
> Microsystems, Inc. has contractually obligated Microsoft to make this
> disclaimer.
> ---
> 
> What software would YOU run for fail-safe performance?

Not Win/NT or systems derived from it, such as W2K and Win/XP AFAIK.

I recall a *very* similar waiver/disclaimer/caveat(!) on a Win NT/3.51
package. I presume all Windows O/S products have a similar warning 
somewhere in the (fine) print.

 
> George Bray
> Windows Patch Enthusiast

You've got to be joking 8-)



cheers
rickw


-- 
_________________________________
Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services

linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
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From davs@mail.com  Sun Sep  1 21:24:12 2002
From: davs@mail.com (MARK AKU)
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:24:12 -0000
Subject: [LINK] 
Message-ID: <200209012124.g81LOA9v023513@anu.edu.au>

 

Dear sir/madam

With good recommendation,I  decided to contact you.
I am PRINCE DAVID  SAVIMBI, the son of JONAS SAVIMBI ,the leader of the
UNITA rebel in ANGOLA, who  was killed in february by the troop loyal to
the government .After his funeral  and burial,we had a family meeting and
resolved to invest the money he left  behind in your country, hence this
letter to you.He left the sum of $80 million  us dollars in cash, which was
a proceed from the sale of diamonds,which was  under his control.

However,the entire  development made us to flee ANGOLA to JOHANESBURG,SOUTH
AFRICA, for fear of  being killed.
The amount of $80 million  united states dollars in cash is presently in our
possession, and I would want it  to be invested in your country,due to the
stability of your economy.The money is  presently with an emergency
diplomatic security courier company,which my mother and I hurriedly used
to move the
cargo out from our country to SOUTH AFRICA.We  registered it under a
security
code with no name, and was registered as  containing photographic paper
material.

My mother and I have resolved to give you  15% of the total sum for your
assistance in
getting this funds transferred to  your reliable company's account in your
country,for investment.We have equally  resolved to spend the rest of our
lives in your country.You have to  make traveling arrangement
of coming to JOHANESBURG,SOUTH AFRICA,immediately to  meet with me face to
face and see the funds physically,then have it transferred  to your
account.Afterwhich both of us would travel together to your country for
sharing and immediate investment,then my family will join me later.

As we await your urgent  reply, strictly through my e-mail
 davsavimbi2002@yahoo.com , davsavimbi2002@hotmail.com  ,  or my private
phone number +882 1 646685229.  your
absolute trust and confidentiality is highly solicited to serve us better.

Best regard
PRINCE DAVID SAVIMBI
----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sun Sep  1 22:05:28 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:05:28 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Plagarism and the MIT
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB58@EXCHANGE_AU>

Fame has been a curse for the MIT. Ever since Nick Neg, the institute has
become addicted to its role as "futurologist for the wired world." 

So when the ideas run a little dry, it steals them:
>http://horizoncomics.com/radix/
>(MONTREAL, QUEBEC) - The Massachusetts Institute of Technology appropriated

>copyrighted images from the new comic book "Radix" and used the images
without 
>permission as part of the school's successful application for a $50 million

>Defense Department grant.
>MIT's unwarranted use of Radix's lead character, "Valerie Fiores,"
permanently 
>damaged the comic book, said creator Ray Lai.
>"People who buy Radix buy a fantasy," said Lai. "Now MIT says all future
U.S. 
>soldiers will look like Radix. They're saying Radix is not fantasy, it's
reality. 
>By doing that, MIT stole our ability to market Radix as escapist
entertainment."
>On May 3, 2002, an attorney for MIT admitted the school "reproduced"
figures and 
>scenes from Radix "to illustrate to the U.S. Army certain research concepts
of the 
>future U.S. soldier" as part of its winning bid to create the Institute for
Soldier 
>Nanotechnologies (ISN.) 

Life imitating art: there was a sci-fi novel in the sixties, Philip K Dick's
"The Zap Gun", in which psionic weapons designers copied their creations
from comic books...

But what a crock the MIT is becoming. We complain how our own universities
debase academic goals for commercial ones ... how about debasing BOTH
academic and commercial goals, just to become a more effective member of the
military, and garner headlines?

RC
----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sun Sep  1 21:52:50 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:52:50 +1000 
Subject: Buyers' Market for IT staff? (was RE: [LINK] More Telstra  In
	competence)
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB57@EXCHANGE_AU>

Michael,

It's worse than that. Looking over one prominent university's course list
(unnamed because it's not alone), the specialisations are, well, pretty
trashy. Here's the bachelor's list (with my comments):
Business and Information Technology 
Business Systems 
...The difference between these two being?

Computer Science 
Computing
...with all the other specialisations, what's "computing"? Generic stuff?
Worth a degree on its own?

Digital Systems
Information Management and Systems
Multimedia
Multimedia Business and Computing
Multimedia Computing 
...Three variations on multimedia? 

Network Computing 
Software Engineering

I don't think it's harsh to suggest that at least in name, the subdivisions
have little to do with academic content, much to do with marketability of
the degree course. 

Returning to the original thread: the lack of background information relates
to what's 'marketable' in university courses. I'll bet you the three
'business' streams are VERY popular. All three, in the longer description,
envisage a career path more-or-less as follows:
1) finish degree
2) take an entry level position
3) become a consultant as soon as possible
4) enter "general management"

Quoting from the University's promotional guff:
>employment as a business analyst, IT consultant or analyst programmer, 
>with most looking to move into general management positions at a later
stage. 

and
>The degree is also intended to provide a strong basis for a transition to 
>more strategic management roles. 

Two, no three degrees in computing for people who don't want to work with
computers.

OK. Over in the real world, there's the ongoing debate about "IT Does Not
Deliver". Umm, a good slab of the reason why: it's managed by people that
don't understand what they're managing. Without sufficient knowledge of
their own, they're forced to rely on the vendors for their decision-making.
It's no surprise that the decisions start to look like vendor powerpoints.

Taking your medical analogy, Jan: what if I went to the college of surgeons
asking for accreditation, and said to them "No, I didn't study surgery, I
studied how to manage surgeons"? And then added ... "Which means, of course,
that I should earn more than the surgeons!" 

Richard Chirgwin


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Still [mailto:mikal@stillhq.com]
> Sent: Saturday, 31 August 2002 12:39
> To: Jan Whitaker
> Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: Re: Buyers' Market for IT staff? (was RE: [LINK] More Telstra
> Incompetence)
> 
> 
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote:
> 
> > I'm just putting out probably inane examples, but the point is has
> > computing enlarged so much as a field that it is being more and more
> > segmented, sort of like medical specialities?
> 
> This is an interesting concept which hadn't occurred to me until you
> suggested it. I think that you're right.
> 
> The problem is that the Universities don't advertise their 
> degrees in this
> way. For example, if you want to study law in Canberra, your 
> choices are
> going to Uni of Canberra (which advertises a commercial law focus), or
> going to ANU (which advertises a constitutional law focus). 
> The IT degrees
> don't do this yet.
> 
> Mikal
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com)     UMT+10hrs
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Sun Sep  1 22:34:31 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 08:34:31 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Telstra and ACCC - share that copper!
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020902083252.020fc190@pop.primenet.com>

In the Saturday Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/08/30/1030508118173.html

ACCC declares spectrum sharing on Telstra's copper network
Sydney
August 30 2002

Australia's competition watchdog today declared line sharing or spectrum 
sharing services on Telstra Corp Ltd's national copper telephone network.

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) chairman Allan Fels 
said the decision meant Telstra must allow other service providers access 
to the high-speed data capacity of its copper network

[snip]

Focus is on broadband competition and ACCC arbitration if agreements can't 
be reached.

Jan

JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au  Sun Sep  1 22:52:08 2002
From: Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:52:08 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Plagarism and the MIT
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB58@EXCHANGE_AU>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB58@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <a05100303b99849a4e840@[192.168.123.119]>


"Chirgwin, Richard" <Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au>
>But what a crock the MIT is becoming. We complain how our own universities
>debase academic goals for commercial ones ... how about debasing BOTH
>academic and commercial goals, just to become a more effective member of the
>military, and garner headlines?

MIT has had close ties with the military for a very long time. 
People sell their souls to the military in return for some space in 
which to do their *real* research.  It's one of the facts of life of 
engineering.  I don't know about Greece and Rome, but think Leonardo 
da Vinci.

-- 
Roger Clarke              http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/

Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd, 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA
                 Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916
mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au            http://www.xamax.com.au/

Visiting Fellow                       Department of Computer Science
The Australian National University     Canberra  ACT  0200 AUSTRALIA
Information Sciences Building Room 211       Tel:  +61  2  6125 3666
----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Mon Sep  2 00:27:59 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:27:59 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Plagarism and the MIT
In-Reply-To: <a05100303b99849a4e840@[192.168.123.119]>; from Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au on Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 08:52:08AM +1000
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB58@EXCHANGE_AU> <a05100303b99849a4e840@[192.168.123.119]>
Message-ID: <20020902102759.E18735@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Roger Clarke wrote:
> MIT has had close ties with the military for a very long time. 
> People sell their souls to the military in return for some space in 
> which to do their *real* research.  It's one of the facts of life of 
> engineering.  I don't know about Greece and Rome, but think Leonardo 
> da Vinci.
 
Archimedes designed war weapons for Hiero, the ruler of Syracuse.
	http://www.shu.edu/html/teaching/math/reals/history/archimed.html

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------
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From jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au  Mon Sep  2 00:56:09 2002
From: jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:56:09 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Hard-to find information (part 1)
Message-ID: <OF261DA7CD.12293284-ONCA256C28.0002E796@dsd.vic.gov.au>


Ash

For your information, there IS a quicker way to get to "search for a
(Victorian) business name"; < http://online.justice.vic.gov.au > While it's
not an intuitive URL, the site does provide important context for this and
other online transactions offered via Department of Justice.

For thoroughness' sake I've attach the (long)  response that is sent to
email enquirers. You'll see that there are several pathways to searching
Business Names and accessing the registration forms; in person, by phone
and Web.

Future VIC.GOV Web developments (particularly the Victorian Online Gateway
project, see < http://egov.vic.gov.au > for more) will provide a lot better
online discoverability of information for the public, so the structure of
government departments and agencies becomes far less relevant to people
like you, just wanting to get to the stuff you're after.

Regards

Jeff Evans
Online Services Manager, Small Business Online
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Victoria, Australia

http://www.businessaccess.vic.gov.au
http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au
http://www.export.vic.gov.au

--

Business Names
==============
>>Note: This information is correct for the state of Victoria, Australia.
Other regulations, etc. may apply in other locations.<<

The simplest form of business setup where you don't operate the
business under your own name is to register a Business Name.
Registering a Business Name costs $70 for 3 years and can be
done at Consumer & Business Affairs
  452 Flinders Street, Melbourne  VIC 3000
  Phone 03 9627 6200   Fax 03 9627 6530

It is possible to download the Application to Register a
Business Name, forms for Associations, Cooperatives
and other forms at the Consumer & Business Affairs
Victoria site. These forms are in Portable Document Format (PDF).
 visit: < http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/ >

Online applications for Business Names will become available
in due course.

Business Name registration forms can also be obtained by
contacting Business Access directly by phone (local call)
13 22 15, in person or by mail:
  Business Access, level 5/55 Collins Street,
  Melbourne VIC 3000
or by fax: (03) 9651 9725.

We can email or post you the forms, or you can visit Business
Channel (see below) and access the relevant forms online.

More about Business Names
========================
A more detailed outline of Business Names can be found on the
Consumer & Business Affairs Victoria web site
< http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/ >

The Consumer & Business Affairs registry is charged with the
responsibility to register and maintain records on the following:
- Business Names, Co-operatives, Incorporated Associations, Limited
     Partnerships.

Please contact Consumer & Business Affairs  if you have a
Business Name registration query about an existing or recently
registered Business Name (including change of address).

Renewing and Searching a Business Name - now online
===================================================
You can now renew your Victorian Business Name registration
or search to see if a name is registered online. Each business
name has its own business registration number. To use this free
service go to
< http://online.justice.vic.gov.au >

Full online searching of existing Victorian business names
and the national company register can be done via the National
Names Index or via an information broker (for a fee). From
the ASIC site < http://www.asic.gov.au/ > it is possible to do
Business Name searches for all states by selecting "National
Names Index". This gives basic details that would enable a
person to see if a name exists. This free search. This
search and other details can also be accessed through
some Brokers linked from the ASIC site (for a fee).

Searching for other business details
=====================================
The Business Entry Point (BEP) offers a range of services to
business clients via the Australian Business Register (ABR) and
its own public on-line database, ABRpublic. The ABR is the
central collection, storage and verification system for basic
business identity information from all entities with an
Australian Business Number (ABN).

ABRpublic is an online database that contains the publicly
available information provided by businesses when they register
for an ABN. It is a convenient way for you to access a partial
version of the ABR. < http://www.abr.gov.au/ >

Searching for Businesses
=====================
It is possible to search on the Internet for business names
that have been registered (see above). You can also search in
person for registered business names and find out other
information such as Association incorporation at:

   Consumer Affairs Victoria
   452 Flinders Street   Melbourne  VIC 3000
   Phone 03 9627 6200   Fax 03 9627 6530

Contact information for businesses is available from their
websites (if they have one) or a search of the phone directory
sites, eg. < http://www.whitepages.com.au/ >
     < http://www.yellowpages.com.au/ >


Online access - Business Name registration
========================================
Online access to Business Name registration and other licence
and permit information is now available via the Business Licence
Information Service (BLIS), delivered through Business Channel.
     <http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au/BLIS>

Click on "Licences & Permits" then "Business Licence Information
Service".


Do I need to register a Business Name?
================================
If you are operating your business under a business name in
Victoria there are some instances where that name will have
to be registered with Consumer and Business Affairs Victoria
(see below). You will not have to register the name if it consists
of your own surname and given names and/or initials.

However the name will have to be registered if you add other
words to your name - for example, Vic Brown Basement Bargains,
or Vic Brown and Son. All names other than your own will have to
be registered. Officers at Consumer and Business Affairs Victoria
will be able to advise you on this matter. When registering a
business name a fee is payable - $70.00 for a 3-year registration.

Business Names in other States
==============================
A Business Name is registered on a State-by-State basis - in
other words if you register a name in Victoria and want to operate
in SA too, you'll need to reserve the name with the SA authorities as well
(see below for more about interstate agencies).

_Companies_ (see below) are registered nationally.

Business Channel & BLIS
-----------------------------------
The Business Licence Information Service (BLIS) is available
online at the Business Channel website:
< http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au/BLIS >

Personal Business Name applications can be made at:
Business Access
Level 5, 55 Collins Street
MELBOURNE VIC 3000
Ph hotline 13 22 15 (local call)
     OR
Consumer and Business Affairs Victoria
Level 2, 452 Flinders Street
MELBOURNE VIC 3000
Ph (03) 9627 6200 Fax: (03) 9627 6210
Web site:  <http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/>

Other Business Structures
======================
If you're interested in other business structures available in
Victoria, we suggest you take a look at our website, which
also contains links to hundreds of sites & organisations
offering assistance to small businesses. Have a look at
Business Access's Information Sheets at
     < http://www.businessaccess.vic.gov.au/>

     Click on Starting Up, then Business

Click on the Information Sheets button and then the title/s you
have an interest in. To find out more, for instance,  about this
subject, there are Information Sheets entitled "Business
Names" and "How Should I Structure My Business?" for
free downloading. Printed Information Sheets can be obtained
at any of our Victorian Business Centre locations.

See the Business Access site for location details.

There are over 80 Information Sheets in total, on a variety
of small business management topics in Portable Document
Format (PDF).  A complete set of Information Sheets is
also available as a single PDF file.

Company information
=================
Companies can be registered by solicitors on behalf of their
clients; normally a solicitor will work with a client's
accountant to prepare all the necessary documents and records.
An alternative is to use a "shelf company service".  Such a
business registers a number of companies at the same time and
prepares necessary documentation; this is kept "on the shelf" so
to speak, ready to be sold to clients with straightforward
requirements as to their company structures. Fees for such
services vary considerably. See the Yellow Pages or other
phone directories under "Shelf Company Services" for a listing
of these businesses.

Companies are registered on a national basis. Company
information can be searched at:
     Australian Securities & Investment Commission
     Business Centre, Melbourne
     Level 17, CU Tower
     485 Latrobe St Melbourne Vic 3001
     Phone 03 9280 3500 or 1800 039 038
     Fax 03 9280 3550
     website:  < http://www.asic.gov.au/ >

There are also several commercial faxback ASIC services; visit
the ASIC Web site for more information.

Registering in Other States
=====================
Readers operating in other Australian States should contact
their local relevant authority:

Australian Capital Territory
------------------------------------------
Registrar General's Office
Allara House, Cnr Constitution Avenue & Allara Street,
Canberra, ACT 2600
Postal:  GPO Box 788 Canberra, ACT 2601
Telephone  (02) 6207 0461  Fax  (02) 6207 0895

New South Wales
------------------------------------------
Department of Fair Trading
1 Fitzwilliam Street, Parramatta NSW 2150
Postal  PO Box 972 Parramatta, NSW 2124
Telephone  (02) 9895 0111
Fax  (02) 9895 0222
<http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/>

Northern Territory
------------------------------------------
Registrar of Business Names
Ground Floor, Development House
76 The Esplanade Darwin, NT
Telephone  (08) 8924 4280

Queensland
------------------------------------------
Office of Fair Trading
Floor 21, State Law Building,
Corner Ann and George Streets, Brisbane QLD 4000
Postal:  GPO Box 3111 Brisbane, QLD 4001
Telephone  (07) 3246 1581  Fax  (07) 3220 0076
<http://www.consumer.qld.gov.au/business-names/>

South Australia
------------------------------------------
Business and Occupational Services
3rd Floor, Chesser House,
91-97 Grenfell Street, Adelaide SA 5000
Postal  GPO Box 1407 Adelaide, SA 5001
Telephone  (08) 8204 9779  Fax  (08) 8204 9771
<http://www.ocba.sa.gov.au/>

Tasmania
------------------------------------------
Department of Corporate Affairs
Ground Floor, 15 Murray Street Hobart, TAS 7000
Postal:  GPO Box 249C Hobart, TAS 7001
Telephone  (03) 6233 2226  Fax  (03) 6224 0743
<http://www.justice.tas.gov.au/breg/>

Western Australia
------------------------------------------
Ministry of Fair Trading, Business Names Branch
1st Floor, 66 St. George's Terrace, Perth, WA 6000
Postal:  GPO Box W2072 Perth, WA 6001
Telephone  (08) 9426 1222  Fax  (08) 9321 3563
<http://www.fairtrading.wa.gov.au>





                                                                                                                                   
                    "Ash                                                                                                           
                    Nallawalla"           To:     <link@www.anu.edu.au>                                                            
                    <ash@melbpc.org       cc:                                                                                      
                    .au>                  Fax to:                                                                                  
                    Sent by:              Subject:     [LINK] Hard-to find information                                             
                    owner-link@www.                                                                                                
                    anu.edu.au                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                    31/08/2002                                                                                                     
                    12:08 PM                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   




I'm having one of those lost-in-hyperspace days, or is it months?

Task 1.

Was looking for seemingly simple information -- how to search for a
registered business name in Victoria.

My usual search for such things begins at www.asic.gov.au whence I look
up a name.  I easily found the name as "pending" and noticed that it was
referenced to the VIC Office of Fair Trading & Business Affairs.  I
vaguely recalled being able to search the latter site.

I went to www.vic.gov.au and there the journey began.  Try searching for
"Fair Trading" or  "Business Name".  I visited numerous hits and dead
ends (there must be hundreds of independent web sites in this government
and they love changing department names).  Even tried the Google link
shown at the end of their search results, to no avail.  I finally found
the lookup page I was looking for (but not the company name in question)
-- has a long Domino URL.  If anyone loves a little challenge, I
recommend this project.

Task 2.

Those of us who belong to the RACV may recall a leaflet inside the
magazine advertising a competition to win a free kitchen worth $20,000.
You could drop off the coupon at the Home Show, mail it, or fill it out
online.  Of course, I went looking for the online form some weeks ago
via www.racv.com.au.

Hah.  I think I am good at finding things, but I failed.  Wrote an email
to the RACV and asked for the online link.  To be safe, I sent my
(winning?) entry by post. :-)

Good move.  This Saturday morning, their Tele-Centre sent me the
following a few minutes ago:
=====
Hi Ash

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the competition.  Please find below
the link to enter the competition plus a couple of others as well.

Good Luck!

Awesome accommodation deals
http://journeys.racv.com.au/members/tactical_enter_comp_form.cfm
The Witches of Eastwick special ticket offer
http://www.journeys.racv.com.au/racvrt/holidayideas/event.cfm?id=62D55AD
6-F0AA-4AFC-B9A0A2008E1FB0F1
Thrifty win a $3000 holiday competition
http://journeys.racv.com.au/members/comp_termsconditions.cfm?id=47AB6C9C
-1481-48C2-B7613CF4C83EE2C8
Win $20,000 kitchen make over
http://journeys.racv.com.au/members/homeshow_enter_comp_form.cfm

[snip]
====

The last one is the competition I was after.  Never mind that ALL those
links point to offers that have now closed (thank heavens I used the
post), but I cannot find them if I go in via www.racv.com.au.  Even if I
cheat and go to the non-intuitive Journeys and Destinations link, I
cannot find the kitchen promotion page even though the page is live.
Perhaps becoming an online "member" is a clue but I did not try that.

I think I'll go out and enjoy the sunshine. :-)

- Ash

----------
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 _____________________________________________________________
 
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Department of Tourism, Sport and the Commonwealth Games 
Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. 

This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and
confidential information.

If you are not the intended recipient, you may not 
distribute or reproduce this e-mail or the attachments.

If you have received this message in error please notify us
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From jpadfield@hotkey.net.au  Mon Sep  2 01:13:59 2002
From: jpadfield@hotkey.net.au (Jonathon Padfield)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:13:59 +1000
Subject: Buyers' Market for IT staff? (was RE: [LINK] More Telstra  In competence)
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB57@EXCHANGE_AU>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB57@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <200209021114.04008.jpadfield@hotkey.net.au>

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002 07:52, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> Michael,
>
> It's worse than that. Looking over one prominent university's course list
> (unnamed because it's not alone), the specialisations are, well, pretty
> trashy. Here's the bachelor's list (with my comments):
>
> Computer Science
> Computing
> ...with all the other specialisations, what's "computing"? Generic stuff?
> Worth a degree on its own?

I think I recognise the Uni, and I'll put my hand up to doing "computing". 
It's not a very helpful name, but the course consists of three pretty 
distinct streams, Software, Computer Tech and Info Systems. Students do a 
couple of compulsary subjects in each, and then choose electives in the 
stream that interests them. So a student may come out with a fairly technical 
knowledgebase, including things like database design, network programming, 
and programming in a wide variety of languages.

On the other hand, they could specialise in "Information Systems", which has 
all the project management, report writing and diagramming subjects. All 
under the same course name.

> I don't think it's harsh to suggest that at least in name, the subdivisions
> have little to do with academic content, much to do with marketability of
> the degree course.

I think you'll find that a lot of those subdivisions are geographical. One 
campus offers one computing, the other computer science, the other software 
engineering or network computing.

-Jon

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From rw@firstpr.com.au  Mon Sep  2 01:26:25 2002
From: rw@firstpr.com.au (Robin Whittle)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:26:25 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Victorian "explicit" services website restrictions
Message-ID: <3D72BE41.47CBBA56@firstpr.com.au>

The Victorian government takes this "Victorian" stuff seriously:

  http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/01/1030508160640.html   

New restrictions come into force about using the Web to "explicitly"
advertise certain personal services.

- - - - 

Brothels lose web nudity rights
By Julie Szego  September 2 2002

Prostitution websites in Victoria will no longer be able to entice
customers with full-body images of naked women or explicit menus of
available services, under regulations that take effect today.

The regulations limit pictures to head and shoulder images and ban
advertising of explicit sexual services. The changes are designed to
close a loophole that has allowed some businesses to engage in risque
Web advertising.

The restrictions already applied to "published" advertisements, such as
those that appeared in print, but whether "published" covered Web
material was unclear. The new rules abolish the ambiguity.

Consumer and Business Affairs Victoria director David Cousins said a
dispute with Melbourne's Daily Planet brothel showed the law change was
needed. The brothel's website contains full-body shots of naked women
and explicit advertisements for services.

Daily Planet Ltd's managing director, Andrew Harris, defended the
brothel's website as "tasteful". He said the company would review its
position under the new regulations.  (http://www.dailyplanet.com.au/)

Dr Cousins said the brothel would be prosecuted if it failed to comply
with the new regulations. He said the agency would examine prostitution
websites to ensure compliance with the new rules. Offenders would be
"rigorously prosecuted".

- - - - 

There's a certain irony in promising to "rigorously prosecute" stalwart
Businesswomen and businessmen for properly describing their personal,
and often highly therapeutic services, including services which
themselves involve rigorous ordeals of a disciplinary nature, such as
those offered by Mistress Tara's Fetish House:

   http://www.fetishhouse.com.au

or other Establishments and Independent Mistresses (its best to
capitalise references to these Women or anything to do with Them!) such
as:   

   http://home.mira.net/~ccentre/   The Correction Centre
   http://home.mira.net/~batgrl/    Mistress Victoria
   http://www.houseofdom.com.au/    The House of Domination
   
There are many more such Mistresses who can be found via various
dominatrix listing sites.

These fine Entrepreneurs offer personalised, emotional, intellectual and
tactile services for a wide range of clients, usually men - most
typically highly stressed persons with management and leadership
responsibilities in commerce, government and law.  

No doubt Dr Cousins gains much the same satisfaction as the Mistresses
in promising to be "rigorous"!   But Dr Cousin's rigour is one of dull,
bureaucratic suppression of commerce and truth in advertising - far
different from the Mistress' Acutely Personal and Enlivening Rigour for
which captains of government and industry pay $230 and hour!  

With the Victorian government, compulsory dullness is all part of the
service.
      

A search of legislation and regulations at:
 
   http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/sb/sbhome.html?

lead me to the likely culprit:

   http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/sb/1999_Act/A00642.html

but I haven't trawled through it to see what sorts of businesses this
applies to, or what "explicit" means in this context.  There's no
mention of "web" or "Internet" there, so I guess that some recent
additions to the regulations have extended the scope to the Net.   


 - Robin
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Liddy.Nevile@motile.net  Mon Sep  2 04:02:36 2002
From: Liddy.Nevile@motile.net (Liddy Nevile)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 14:02:36 +1000
Subject: [LINK] OZeWAI 2002 - Web Content Accessibility Conference - Nov 2002
Message-ID: <a05100303b99892672c67@[131.172.135.203]>

Linkers
This event has been held each year for a while now. If you are 
interested in learning more about accessibility, please consider this 
year's offering:

http://www.OZeWAI.org/2002/

We would be grateful if you can circulate this email to others who 
may be interested (appropriately).

Liddy Nevile
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Mon Sep  2 05:13:06 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:13:06 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Re: Sex differences in technical fields
In-Reply-To: <20020830093836.C515@cyber.com.au>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0208292323550.11408-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
 <013401c24fa8$4d2eadc0$d8218790@telstra.com>
 <20020830093836.C515@cyber.com.au>
Message-ID: <a0510030bb998a2b4b36b@[10.0.1.202]>

At 9:38 AM +1000 on 30/8/02, lance@cyber.com.au wrote:


>I was able to tell him what to do in a few words and it all worked.
>The Microsoft guy naturally asked him who he'd spoken to, and my son
>said the expression on his face when he replied "that was my mum," was
>very entertaining.  I guess it was strange enough to him that a female
>knew what to do, but a *mum*!  Probably caused a severe episode of
>cognitive dissonance...

A few years ago I was lurking on a list devoted to some software (now 
RealBasic) which my son Andrew had written. There was a posting with 
some rather over the top praise. In a spirit of fun I posted a 
comment asking for the praise to be toned down as it would go to 
Andrew's head and signed it "Andrew's dad". A comment came right back 
suggesting that Andrew had brought this on himself by showing his 
oldies how to use email. I later got an apology from the poster after 
he checked my web site ;-)

Tony
-- 
--
phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
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From rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU  Mon Sep  2 05:39:12 2002
From: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU (David Chia)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:39:12 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Re: Sex differences in technical fields
In-Reply-To: <20020830091514.GJ10029@taz.net.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020902151023.31930A-100000@atlantic>


> > *NT* in the meyer-briggs personality test (she's INTJ, I'm ENTP,
> > apparently less than 4% of the population are NT, but a large number
> > of sysadmins are).

On average 12.5% of population are NT type.


> it would be interesting to know whether there was a gender-based
> difference in the percentage of NT types,

There is a known gender shift in the F-T scale, i.e. on the T (thinking)
scale female 40% vs male 60%, or for NT type female 10% vs male 15%.

Below is my data from '96 online web survey with 70 questions. At that
time the % of female online was considered to be less than 10% and yet
I was able to obtain allegedly 49% female response. A few US universities
were using my survey in their teaching might explained the %.

In contrast to popular belief, it was the NF rather than NT type that
is over-represented on the internet at that time. (percentages in brackets
are the expected general population data). As expected, the SP type
was very under represented.


<pre>

CyberSpace Population Personality Profile
(C) David Chia '96, free to quote.

TOTAL  NUMBER =  32198

FEMALE NUMBER =  15671      49 %

energizing:	Extroversion 49% (75%),	Introversion 51% (25%)
attending: 	Sensing      33% (75%),	iNtuition    67% (25%)
deciding:  	Thinking     29% (40%),	Feeling      71% (60%) *
living:    	Judgement    61% (50%),	Perception   39% (50%)

NF (reach for the sky) 51.0% (15.0%)
NT (foresight)         15.9% (10.0%)
SJ (hindsight)         28.0% (37.5%)
SP (let's drink wine)   5.2% (37.5%)

+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
|  % |    NF |    NT |    SF |    ST |  sum  |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| EJ |    12 |     4 |     7 |     5 |    27 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| IJ |    12 |     6 |     9 |     7 |    34 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| EP |    16 |     3 |     2 |     1 |    22 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| IP |    11 |     3 |     2 |     1 |    17 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
|    |    51 |    16 |    20 |    14 |       |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+



MALE   NUMBER =  16527      51 %

energizing:	Extroversion 40% (75%),	Introversion 60% (25%)
attending: 	Sensing      33% (75%),	iNtuition    67% (25%)
deciding:  	Thinking     50% (60%),	Feeling      50% (40%) *
living:    	Judgement    55% (50%),	Perception   45% (50%)

NF (reach for the sky) 38.4% (10.5%)
NT (foresight)         28.6% (15.5%)
SJ (hindsight)         25.9% (37.5%)
SP (let's drink wine)   7.2% (37.5%)

+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
|  % |    NF |    NT |    SF |    ST |  sum  |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| EJ |     6 |     5 |     3 |     6 |    20 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| IJ |     8 |    10 |     5 |    12 |    35 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| EP |    12 |     5 |     2 |     1 |    20 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
| IP |    13 |     8 |     2 |     2 |    25 |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+
|    |    38 |    29 |    11 |    22 |       |
+----+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+

</pre>

-- 
David Chia, RMIT University

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From annm@exocat.com.au  Mon Sep  2 06:49:03 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 16:49:03 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Re: Sex differences in technical fields
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0208292323550.11408-100000@isis.virago.org.au> <013401c24fa8$4d2eadc0$d8218790@telstra.com> <20020830093836.C515@cyber.com.au> <a0510030bb998a2b4b36b@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <002901c2524c$d7b2b300$d8218790@telstra.com>

yes tony, as i said i'm old & female. there is no hope for me.

i remember in 60s or early 70s meeting the only female ibm director in the
usa. she was very well spoken & well qualified. i asked her how she got her
directorship. she said, with a DEEP southern accent, "honey chile, i's black
& i's female and if i were jewish as well they'd never get rid of me!!"

annm
************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Barry" <me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au>
To: <lance@cyber.com.au>
Cc: "Ann Moffatt" <annm@exocat.com.au>; <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Re: Sex differences in technical fields


> At 9:38 AM +1000 on 30/8/02, lance@cyber.com.au wrote:
>
>
> >I was able to tell him what to do in a few words and it all worked.
> >The Microsoft guy naturally asked him who he'd spoken to, and my son
> >said the expression on his face when he replied "that was my mum," was
> >very entertaining.  I guess it was strange enough to him that a female
> >knew what to do, but a *mum*!  Probably caused a severe episode of
> >cognitive dissonance...
>
> A few years ago I was lurking on a list devoted to some software (now
> RealBasic) which my son Andrew had written. There was a posting with
> some rather over the top praise. In a spirit of fun I posted a
> comment asking for the praise to be toned down as it would go to
> Andrew's head and signed it "Andrew's dad". A comment came right back
> suggesting that Andrew had brought this on himself by showing his
> oldies how to use email. I later got an apology from the poster after
> he checked my web site ;-)
>
> Tony
> --
> --
> phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
> mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From mgm-ns@tardis.net  Mon Sep  2 07:55:59 2002
From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 17:55:59 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Hard-to find information (part 1)
In-Reply-To: <OF261DA7CD.12293284-ONCA256C28.0002E796@dsd.vic.gov.au>
References: <OF261DA7CD.12293284-ONCA256C28.0002E796@dsd.vic.gov.au>
Message-ID: <l166nuov9rv77guqqp33tuv1ta1qdunqmq@4ax.com>

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:56:09 +1000, you wrote:

>Online applications for Business Names will become available
>in due course.

And when is "in due course"? This statement has been on the Web site
for as long as I can remember. Web pages that promise things "real
soon" are a pet hate of mine.

-- 
Best wishes,
Malcolm

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From carl@stagecraft.cx  Mon Sep  2 10:12:04 2002
From: carl@stagecraft.cx (Carl Makin)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 20:12:04 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
Message-ID: <6E264DCE-BE5C-11D6-ACC9-0050E445BE6D@stagecraft.cx>

<sigh>  More marketing driven invasion of privacy.

I automatically disable cookies except for certain known sites when 
browsing.  I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to 
require the use of cookies for any reason.

They appear to be using it as part of some form of link access counter.


Carl.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: FED Gov For InfoAccess <FED.GOV@noie.gov.au>
> Date: Mon Sep 02, 2002  03:05:43  PM Australia/Sydney
> To: "'carl@stagecraft.cx'" <carl@stagecraft.cx>
> Subject: Accessing links from FedGov query
>
>
> Dear Carl,
>
> Thank you for forwarding your inquiry to www.fed.gov.au - the 
> Commonwealth
> Government Entry Point.
>
> This site requires temporary or session cookies be enabled as the site 
> uses
> session cookies for maintaining contact with you while you are in a
> www.fed.gov.au session.  The site is also reliant on the cookies for
> security, however, no personal information is gathered.
>
> I hope this is of assistance.
>
> Regards
> Isobel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: agps web admin [mailto:webmstr@ausinfoweb.agps.gov.au]
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 9:23 PM
> Subject: www.fed.gov.au Comments/Feedback Form
>
>
> email=carl@stagecraft.cx
> comments=Hi,
> Whenever I try to follow a link on your main page I get the following 
> error;
>
> Error: 500
> Location: /CountHits
> The url trying to be counted is invalid.
>
> The URL was;
>
> http://www.fed.gov.au/CountHits?redirectTo=http://www.gold.gov.au/
>
>
> I am using Mozilla 1.1 under MacOS X with cookies disabled.
>
> Please email a response to the address listed above.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl.
>
> Submit=Submit
> subject=
> name=user
> action=submitFeedback
>
> Server protocol: HTTP/1.0
> HTTP From:
> Remote host: 203.51.31.214
> Remote IP address: 203.51.31.214
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
>
> The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient 
> only
> and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material.  Any
> review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result 
> in
> severe penalties.  If you have received this e-mail in error please 
> notify
> the Security Adviser of the Department of Communications, Information
> Technology and the Arts, telephone (02) 6271-1880 and delete all copies 
> of
> this transmission together with any attachments.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au  Mon Sep  2 13:37:42 2002
From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:37:42 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
Message-ID: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au>

From: Carl Makin <carl@stagecraft.cx> (2/9/02 8:12 PM)

>I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to 
>require the use of cookies for any reason.

It's a session cookie, as is apparent by (1) the fact it expires at the 
end of the session, and (2) it is named JSESSIONID.

I guess you think the fed.gov.au folks shouldn't care just how people 
actually use their website, what the common entry pages are, what the 
common exit pages are, whether people abandon their visit after trying 
the search function or viewing the site map (ie. not following any links 
from there), ...

Dang it all, they should just slap up some HTML pages and hope they've 
got it right. If they don't then tough bikkies. You don't honestly expect 
them to gather information which informs their future development 
decisions, surely?

e.

______________________________________________________________________
eric@ironclad.net.au                 i r o n c l a d   n e t w o r k s
information architect                      http://www.ironclad.net.au/


----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From grove@zeta.org.au  Mon Sep  2 13:59:30 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:59:30 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Legal Notification (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209021222170.13563-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

Here's a new scam - it looks very genuine.
They will have to sue me to get the $50.


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:23:25 -1000
From: "Anthony Baratta, CISSP" <info@isc2.org>
To: grove@zeta.org.au
Subject: Legal Notification

Legal Notification



You are herby informed that (under the privacy act), the International Information System Security Certification Consortium (ISC)2  has sold your information including,

Name ,

E-Mail address,

Residential address,

Credit and savings information,

Social Security information,

and Occupation details.

This information has been sold to a third Party \ Parties and this E-mail serves as notification for such action.

This information was sold under the premise for marketing and research.

Under the privacy act you may request to see in writing any information that we have about you. Please write to the following address with a self addressed envelope.



(ISC)2

860 Worcester Rd.,Ste 101

Framingham, Ma 01702

U.S.A



If you have any questions about the third Party \ Parties please inquire with them. The International Information System Security Certification Consortium (ISC)2 is no longer  responsible for the information sold. (ISC)2 Will hold no responsibility for damages and loss suffered by the reader of this E-mail. (ISC)2 is not responsible for the actions of third party companies.



Upon written request we will consider deleting records that we currently hold about you. A processing fee of $ 10.00 will apply.

Please make out this check to (ISC)2 and an application form will be mailed to you in order to complete this request.

Please visit our web site for more information about our organization



http://www.isc2.org



If you decline this offer by the 31 Sep 2002 a charge of $50 will be deducted from your account. This charge will cover services that our organization provides to secure the internet.



Thank you

Manager of Professional Programs

Anthony Baratta, CISSP

abaratta@isc2.org



Contact E-Mail  info@isc2.org




----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From MarketingTools0901@yahoo.com  Mon Sep  2 17:24:53 2002
From: MarketingTools0901@yahoo.com (Marketing-Products)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 03:24:53 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Lists: Publicity - Libraries - Bookstores - Film Producers - Art Galleries - Record Stores - Custom (more)
Message-ID: <200209021724.g82HOr9v006169@anu.edu.au>

UNLIMITED USE LISTS . . . 
--------------------------------------------------------------
NEW LISTS: PBS STATIONS, UK MEDIA, POLITICAL MEDIA,
NEW AGE MEDIA, UK LIBRARIES, SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS,
FILM & TV PRODUCERS, ART PUBLISHERS, LITERARY AGENTS, MENS MEDIA.
--------------------------------------------------------------
IF WE DO NOT HAVE THE LIST YOU NEED, WE WILL COMPILE A CUSTOM LIST
ACCORDING TO YOUR SPECIFICATIONS . . . Lists take 5-7 business days.
Custom orders accepted on first-come, first-served basis.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Call to place your order or for more information.

US & CANADA TOLL-FREE NUMBER: 888 330 4919  (24/7)

If you would like more information via email, please write us
at sendlistinfo@netscape.net - Thank you.
--------------------------------------------------------------
LIBRARIES

LISTS INCLUDE: Name, Address, phone, fax and email address
(when available).
AVAILABLE FORMATS: Excel Spreadsheet & Text Database

1,200 U.S. Public Libraries (Largest Headquarters) WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $109
1,200 U.S. Public Libraries (Largest Headquarters) - $89
1,000 U.S. University Libraries (Largest) WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $89
1,000 U.S. University Libraries (Largest) - $69
400+ Community College Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $59
400+ Community College Libraries - $49
1,093 U.S. K-12 Private School Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $109
1,093 U.S. K-12 Private School Libraries - $89
200  U.K. Public Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $49
200  U.K. Public Libraries - $39
250  U.K. University Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $49
250  U.K. University Libraries - $39
528  Australian Public Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $79
528  Australian Public Libraries - $69
279  Australian College & Univ. Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $49
279  Australian College & Univ. Libraries  - $39
200  Canadian Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $49
200  Canadian Libraries  - $39
100  New Zealand Libraries WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $39
100  New Zealand Libraries - $29
1,000 U.S. Medical Libraries -  $79
313  U.S. Law Libraries - $49
193  U.S. Religious Libraries - $39
----------------------------------------------
BOOKSTORES

LIST INCLUDES: Name, Address, phone, fax and email address
(when available).
AVAILABLE FORMATS: Excel Spreadsheets & Text Databases

1,900+ Independent Bookstores WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $149
1,900+ Independent Bookstores - $129
1,900+ College Bookstores WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $149
1,900+ College Bookstores - $129
3,000+ Christian Bookstores WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $169
3,000+ Christian Bookstores - $149
2,200+ Chain Bookstores - $129
575+ Book Distributors & Chain HQs - WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $59
575+ Book Distributors & Chain HQs - $ 49
675 Canadian General Bookstores WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $69
675 Canadian General Bookstores - $59
175 Canadian University Bookstores - WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES - $39
175 Canadian University Bookstores  - $29
300 New Age Bookstores - $49
125 African-American Bookstores - $29
You will be able to download your lists WITHIN MINUTES.
-----------------------------------------------
MEDIA LISTS

LISTS INCLUDE: Contact Name, Title/Position, Company, Address,
Phone, Fax and Email Address (when available)

AVAILABLE FORMATS: Excel Spreadsheet and Microsoft Word

PBS Stations                        (800+ Contacts)   - $99
Scientific Journals                 (500 Contacts)    - $99
UK Media List                       (500 Contacts)    - $99
Political Media List                (1,100+ Contacts) - $149
Canadian National Media             (590+ Contacts)   - $99
New Age Media                       (250+ Contacts)   - $99
Mens Interest Media                 (400 Contacts)    - $99
Womens Interest Media               (1,350+ Contacts) - $149
Teen Interest Media                 (216 Contacts)    - $99
Eclectic Newsweeklies               (575+ Contacts)   - $99
College Radio Stations              (520+ Contacts)   - $99
Local TV News (North Region)        (840+ Contacts)   - $99
Local TV News (Midwest Region)      (870+ Contacts)   - $99
Local TV News (West Region)         (890+ Contacts)   - $99
Local TV News (South Region)        (1,100+ Contacts) - $129
Local TV News (All Regions)         (3,700+ Contacts) - $249
Drive Time Radio - Top 50 Markets   (300+ Contacts)   - $69
Australian National Media List      (360+ Contacts)   - $99
Drive Time Radio - Top 100 Markets  (600 Contacts)    - $99
Newspapers - Top 100 Papers         (1,100+ Contacts) - $99
National Media List                 (1000+ Contacts)  - $99
Sex & Relationships Media List      (402 Contacts)    - $99
Music Industry Media List           (1,142 Contacts)  - $149
Fashion & Beauty List               (1,400 Contacts)  - $149
Motion Picture, Film  & Video       (695 Contacts)    - $99
National Public Radio               (265 Contacts)    - $99
Sports Media List                   (427 Contacts)    - $99
African American Media List         (1500 Contacts)   - $149
Environmental Media List            (763 Contacts)    - $99
Gay and Lesbian Media List          (260 Contacts)    - $99
Book Industry Media List            (502 Contacts)    - $99
Christian Media List                (370 Contacts)    - $99
Family & Parenting Media List       (789 Contacts)    - $99
College Newspaper Contacts          (1,400+ Contacts) - $99
-------------------------------------------------
TV & FILM PRODUCERS, DIRECTORS, DEVELOPMENT EXECS, (MORE)

3,000+ Contacts - $299 (Entire List)
800+ Producers Only - $99
650+ Development, Creative & Acquisitions Contacts Only - $89

Lists Include: Contact Name, Title, Company, Address, Phone and Fax Number
Available Formats: Excel Spreadsheet and Text Database

PUBLISHING COMPANY CONTACTS
1,700+ U.S. Publishing Contacts - $149
300 Art Publishing Contacts - $49
List Includes: Contact Name, Title, Company, Address, Phone, Number,
Fax Number and Email Address (when available)
Available Formats: Excel Spreadsheet and Text Database

LITERARY AGENTS
300+ Contacts - $59
List Includes: Contact Name, Title, Company, Address, Phone, Number,
Fax Number and Email Address (when available)
Available Formats: Excel Spreadsheet and Text Database

MUSIC AGENTS/MANAGERS
150+ Contacts - $39
List Includes: Contact Name, Title, Company, Address, Phone,
Fax Number and Email Address (when available)
Available Formats: Excel Spreadsheet and Text Database

Lists Include: Store Name, Address and Phone Number
Available Formats: Excel Spreadsheet and Text Database

MUSIC STORE LISTS
997  Independent Music Stores (Midwest) - $79
1215 Independent Music Stores (South)   - $89
1444 Independent Music Stores (East)    - $89
1355 Independent Music Stores (West)    - $89
5008 Independent Music Stores (National)- $249

Lists Include: Store Name, Address and Phone Number
Available Formats: Excel Spreadsheet and Text Database

ART GALLERY LISTS
US National List WITH EMAIL ADDRESSES: $169 (1090 Galleries)
US National List: $149 (1090 Galleries)
Southern US:   $39 (140 Galleries)
Central  US:   $39 (150 Galleries)
Western  US:   $69 (272 Galleries)
Eastern  US:   $89 (530 Galleries)
United Kingdom:   $69  (230 Galleries)
Canada:           $49  (165 Galleries)
Australia:        $29  (50 Galleries)

Lists Include: Gallery Name, Address, Phone Number and Fax Number
Available Formats: Excel Spreadsheet and Text Database

OUR GUARANTEE: We will gladly refund postage (up to 34 cents per item)
for any undeliverable addresses over 5% of the total list. We will also
correct the undeliverable contacts and issue you an updated list.

------------------------
You will be able to download your lists WITHIN MINUTES.

Call to place your order or for more information.

US & CANADA TOLL-FREE NUMBER: 888 330 4919  (24/7)

If you would like more information via email, please write us at
sendlistinfo@netscape.net - Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
To be removed from any future mailings, please send a message with
your email address in the subject line to PublicityRemoval@netscape.net.
Requests will be processed within 48 hours at that address only.
Apologies for any inconvience. Thank you.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From bobb@soxkat.com  Mon Sep  2 21:24:22 2002
From: bobb@soxkat.com (Bob Bain)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 07:24:22 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Legal Notification (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209021222170.13563-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209021222170.13563-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
Message-ID: <pjl7nuchdlfll5h053m23c9ouhjcst8kge@4ax.com>

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:59:30 +1000 (EST), rachel wrote:

>Here's a new scam - it looks very genuine.
>They will have to sue me to get the $50.

 Ah.  Thanks.  I was worrying about this as the following indicates an
organisation of this name (ISC)2, Inc. had charged my credit card for
$450.  I filed it in the "worry about it but be cautious" department.

*+*+*+*+*+*  THIS IS NOT A MAILING LIST  *+*+*+*+*+* THIS IS NOT A
MAILING LIST  *+*+*+*+*+* 

(ISC)2, Inc.

 This email is being sent to confirm that you have submitted an 
 application to sit for the CISSP examination.

 Your confirmation number is 16225
 
 You have applied for the following examination:
 
CISSP 
 
 The registration fee of USD 450 was charged to your credit card.
 
 PLEASE PRINT AND SIGN:
 
 By signing this admittance letter you acknowledge that you have 
 read and agree to abide by the CISSP Code of Ethics, that all the 
 information that you have provided is accurate and factual to the 
 best of your knowledge, and that you will maintain confidential 
 all examination related materials provided to you during the 
 examination.
 
 ____________________________________________________________
 Signature
 
 
 ____________________________________
 Date
 
 Please remember to bring a copy of this confirmation notice 
 to the examination. This will be your admittance letter.
 
 If you have additional questions or need further information, 
 please visit our web site at www.isc2.org or contact us at 
 888.333.4458 (North America only) or 727-738-8657, or 
 727-738-9548.  Our office is staffed Monday through Friday, 
 8:30 am - 5:00 pm ET.
 
 If you have received this message in error, please 
 forward it to the Registrar for investigation.

 Please keep a copy of this message for future reference. 

 Thank you.

 Registrar
 registrar@isc2.org

----------
Bob Bain
bobb@soxkat.com
www.soxkat.com/~bobb
Sydney Australia
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Mon Sep  2 21:40:21 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:40:21 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Hard-to find information (part 1)
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB73@EXCHANGE_AU>

"In due course" in this case probably means when the problems of identity,
authenticity and security are solved. "When hell freezes over" would do just
as well. 

Were it me, I would remove the promise, but then "real soon now" has been a
feature of this industry ever since MS invented the expression (.NET Server
is now .NET Server 2003. Oh well, I should be grateful Bill didn't just ask
the UN to rename next year as 2002.2 ).

RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Malcolm Miles [mailto:mgm-ns@tardis.net]
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 17:56
> To: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Hard-to find information (part 1)
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:56:09 +1000, you wrote:
> 
> >Online applications for Business Names will become available
> >in due course.
> 
> And when is "in due course"? This statement has been on the Web site
> for as long as I can remember. Web pages that promise things "real
> soon" are a pet hate of mine.
> 
> -- 
> Best wishes,
> Malcolm
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Mon Sep  2 21:50:29 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:50:29 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB74@EXCHANGE_AU>

I don't believe in a religious war about cookies, especially when it's so
easy to deal with them; but surely a cookie is not the only way such
information can be gathered?

My other observation is this: if people are using cookies to understand user
behaviour so they can improve the user experience - then why are the designs
still so atrocious? It's rather like the Nutri-Matics drink dispenser -
analyse the user down to the molecules, but the drink is always "almost, but
not entirely unlike tea".

Surely the horrid design, the almost nauseous colour scheme, the small
fonts, the dada-esque eclecticism of  the "news and issues" panel and so on
aren't the result of careful planning and analysis? 

Richard Chirgwin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Scheid [mailto:eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au]
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 23:38
> To: Link List
> Subject: Re: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
> 
> 
> From: Carl Makin <carl@stagecraft.cx> (2/9/02 8:12 PM)
> 
> >I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to 
> >require the use of cookies for any reason.
> 
> It's a session cookie, as is apparent by (1) the fact it 
> expires at the 
> end of the session, and (2) it is named JSESSIONID.
> 
> I guess you think the fed.gov.au folks shouldn't care just how people 
> actually use their website, what the common entry pages are, what the 
> common exit pages are, whether people abandon their visit 
> after trying 
> the search function or viewing the site map (ie. not 
> following any links 
> from there), ...
> 
> Dang it all, they should just slap up some HTML pages and 
> hope they've 
> got it right. If they don't then tough bikkies. You don't 
> honestly expect 
> them to gather information which informs their future development 
> decisions, surely?
> 
> e.
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> eric@ironclad.net.au                 i r o n c l a d   n e t w o r k s
> information architect                      http://www.ironclad.net.au/
> 
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From lannet@lannet.com.au  Mon Sep  2 22:01:29 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:01:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Legal Notification (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209021222170.13563-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209030759010.1301-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Rachel Polanskis wrote:

> Here's a new scam - it looks very genuine.
> They will have to sue me to get the $50.
>

Damned chop bar has dropped the forwarded message, but it's interesting to
note that there must still be a very large number of mugs out there to
have organisations persist in this type of scam.

BTW, from their privacy policy statement:

"Personally identifiable information on individual users will not be sold
or otherwise transferred to unaffiliated third parties without the
approval of the user. "

That seems to fly in the face of the email.

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From ian@topic.com.au  Mon Sep  2 22:04:59 2002
From: ian@topic.com.au (Ian Macintosh)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:04:59 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
References: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au>

Eric,

Why do they have to use cookies to do tracking? What about sessionids in
the URL, or log file analysis, or ignore tracking those users who have
cookies turned off?

<rant>
I have also complained to them that their site is BROKEN (aka must use
cookies).  There are NUMEROUS ways to track people through the site
without cookies, and to have such a high profile site effectively
innaccessable to a number of their users because of a random decision is
preposterous.  They told me that there are "no plans to develop a cookie
free site in the future", and I replied that the site was therefore
useless to me.

Having once run this site (before the current incarnation) I am highly
disappointed at the outcome </rant>

Ian Macintosh

Eric Scheid wrote:
> 
> From: Carl Makin <carl@stagecraft.cx> (2/9/02 8:12 PM)
> 
> >I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to
> >require the use of cookies for any reason.
> 
> It's a session cookie, as is apparent by (1) the fact it expires at the
> end of the session, and (2) it is named JSESSIONID.
> 
> I guess you think the fed.gov.au folks shouldn't care just how people
> actually use their website, what the common entry pages are, what the
> common exit pages are, whether people abandon their visit after trying
> the search function or viewing the site map (ie. not following any links
> from there), ...
> 
> Dang it all, they should just slap up some HTML pages and hope they've
> got it right. If they don't then tough bikkies. You don't honestly expect
> them to gather information which informs their future development
> decisions, surely?
> 
> e.
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> eric@ironclad.net.au                 i r o n c l a d   n e t w o r k s
> information architect                      http://www.ironclad.net.au/
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
----------
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Mon Sep  2 22:05:25 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:05:25 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Hard-to find information (part 1)
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB73@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209030803230.1301-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:

> Oh well, I should be grateful Bill didn't just ask
> the UN to rename next year as 2002.2 ).

That reminds me that a few years back the EU rewrote the calendar so that
they could make a contentious decision before an end of month (or year)
deadline - they just added extra days to the end of the effective month.

Stupid politicians.

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Mon Sep  2 22:15:24 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:15:24 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Hype alert...
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB78@EXCHANGE_AU>

Linkers,

We're about to have this hyped to us; it's already doing the rounds of the
less critical, more credulous media to get people saying "wow"! This is
usually the precursor to float-and-run...

www.meshnetworks.com
Let's take a quick look at the "About" page:
>MeshNetworks was founded in January 2000 to commercialize a cutting edge 
>wireless technology developed for military applications. 
DING! Military mystery always gets the kiddies' eyes wide.

>MeshNetworks is a private, technology oriented corporation that has
received over $27 
>million in funding from private investors, including Apax Partners, Redwood

>Ventures, ITT, 3Com and BancBoston.
>
>Altogether, more than $170 million and six years of development have been
invested 
>in MeshNetworks' solution. It supports the simultaneous use of Voice over
Internet 
>Protocol (VoIP), data, and multimedia at high data rates

[interjection] So what? We've just proven that this is better than RS-232.
And thrown in some buzzwords because the investor press can't tell sh*t from
sugar.

> - with or without network infrastructure. 
OK. We make a network without network infrastructure. If the claim is that
members of the network can form part of the network infrastructure, okay.
But a statement like this is just snakeoil.

>MeshNetworks technology leverages each subscriber device to enhance the
network, 
>by enabling it to act as an intelligent router and repeater for other
devices in 
>the network.

Which is why P2P has replaced conventional Internet infrastructure? 

The point of this post is that it's nearly inevitable that this will get the
usual syndication coverage in the .au IT media; and that the hypesters will
not be asked to support any of their statements...

Richard Chirgwin
----------
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From mgm-ns@tardis.net  Mon Sep  2 22:18:35 2002
From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:18:35 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Hard-to find information (part 1)
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB73@EXCHANGE_AU>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB73@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <6qo7nuoilo0o64nvvp9ec544tig0bv29s6@4ax.com>

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 07:40:21 +1000 , you wrote:

>Were it me, I would remove the promise, but then "real soon now" has been a
>feature of this industry ever since MS invented the expression

MS didn't invent this one. According to the Jargon File:

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Real-Soon-Now.html

[orig. from SF's fanzine community, popularized by Jerry Pournelle's
column in "BYTE"] 1. Supposed to be available (or fixed, or cheap, or
whatever) real soon now according to somebody, but the speaker is
quite skeptical. 2. When one's gods, fates, or other time commitments
permit one to get to it (in other words, don't hold your breath).
Often abbreviated RSN. Compare copious free time.

-- 
Best wishes,
Malcolm

----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Mon Sep  2 22:11:29 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:11:29 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <6E264DCE-BE5C-11D6-ACC9-0050E445BE6D@stagecraft.cx>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903080705.0227c0e0@pop.primenet.com>

At 08:12 PM 2/09/02 +1000, Carl Makin wrote:
>I automatically disable cookies except for certain known sites when 
>browsing.  I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to require 
>the use of cookies for any reason.

The ABC tries to use cookies on several bits, but doesn't seem to block 
access if you refuse.  I use a medium setting, allowing cookies back to the 
same server as the originating website, but alert me if they are to a 
different place. I generally say 'no' for the third party cookies.

I've also found some sites that won't work if you refuse js loads.  That 
one makes me angry, too.  Why should I allow things that are programs to 
interact with my machine?

Sadly, I finally broke down and loaded the macromedia flash program [waves 
at Ash] in order to get info from a site where I'm trying to get changes 
done in their organisation [long story].  The motivation was to get the 
'goods'  on them, so I had to play that flash game.  Doesn't make me any 
more disposed to be a 'nice guy' when the time comes.

Is there a competition at the moment to try and piss off the most consumers?

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Mon Sep  2 22:42:31 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 08:42:31 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB74@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903084137.02284d70@pop.primenet.com>

At 07:50 AM 3/09/02 +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
>I don't believe in a religious war about cookies, especially when it's so
>easy to deal with them; but surely a cookie is not the only way such
>information can be gathered?

We don't use any cookies on Agrigate.  We just count hits per page.  If the 
page is used, it stays.  If the page isn't used, we take a look and see if 
we really need it.  quite simple.

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From ian@topic.com.au  Mon Sep  2 23:04:25 2002
From: ian@topic.com.au (Ian Macintosh)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:04:25 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903080705.0227c0e0@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <3D73EE79.3088ACFF@topic.com.au>



Jan Whitaker wrote:
> 
> At 08:12 PM 2/09/02 +1000, Carl Makin wrote:
> >I automatically disable cookies except for certain known sites when
> >browsing.  I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to require
> >the use of cookies for any reason.
> 
> The ABC tries to use cookies on several bits, but doesn't seem to block
> access if you refuse.  I use a medium setting, allowing cookies back to the
> same server as the originating website, but alert me if they are to a
> different place. I generally say 'no' for the third party cookies.
> 
> I've also found some sites that won't work if you refuse js loads.  That
> one makes me angry, too.  Why should I allow things that are programs to
> interact with my machine?
> 
Of more annoyance are fallacious statements on the fed.gov.au site like
(from their about page):
"It is the Commonwealth's aim to provide equitable access to information
and the variety of access approaches available on this site will allow
you to choose the method of finding information that best suits you. The
site has been developed with useability and accessibility principles as
the main drivers for design. The incorporation of a common look and feel
across the site with your needs and feedback providing guidance on
specific features has resulted in a user-centred design where your input
and feedback have real impact on development. "

The above statement has not been achieved (if it ever was the aim). 
They have been told numerous times to allow non-cookie based access to
the site but are patently ignoring user feedback.  I would suggest that
we (users) do not have any "real impact on development".

No more rants from me on this topic (well at least for a while) ;-)

Ian Macintosh
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Mon Sep  2 23:01:02 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 09:01:02 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Hard-to find information (part 1)
In-Reply-To: <OF261DA7CD.12293284-ONCA256C28.0002E796@dsd.vic.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903085952.0227bec0@pop.primenet.com>

At 10:56 AM 2/09/02 +1000, jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au wrote:
>Renewing and Searching a Business Name - now online
>===================================================
>You can now renew your Victorian Business Name registration
>or search to see if a name is registered online. Each business
>name has its own business registration number. To use this free
>service go to
>< http://online.justice.vic.gov.au >

wow!!  This is excellent!  It's fast and it got me what I needed to know in 
about 30 seconds!!!  I also found out my registration is current to 2004, 
so no worries.  :-)

congrats, Jeff, if this is your work.  I punted and let the JS run.....

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From tom.worthington@tomw.net.au  Sun Sep  1 23:41:27 2002
From: tom.worthington@tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 09:41:27 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Broadband technology for Western Australia
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020902092045.02c24360@tomw.net.au>

This appeared in the weekend newspapers. I couldn't find it on-line and 
thought it may be of interest:

---

           Government of Western Australia
               Expressions of Interest
          South West Development Commission

                Broadband technology
           South West of Western Australia

  An opportunity to plan and develop an integrated broadband
    network in one of Australia's fastest growing regions.

The South West of Western Australia is a region of enormous potential. With 
a population growth rate at twice the national average and a gross regional 
product of $4.6 billion it's a great place in which to live and invest.

The South West Development Commission is inviting ideas and views from 
telecommunications providers on how they might participate in network and 
service development in the region, including models for delivery and financing.

There will be an opportunity to present ideas to the region's leading 
business, community and government stakeholders on a 
commercial-in-confidence basis. The information obtained will be used to 
provide advice to the State Government on the future of telecommunications 
in the region.

This is an opportunity to be part of a region gaining international 
recognition for its lifestyle and economic vibrancy. It is fast-becoming a 
region of excellence in information technology.

For further details contact: Mr. Ashley Clements, Executive Officer, South 
west Online, South West Development Commission, Telephone: 9792 2000, 
Facsimile: 9791 3223, E-mail: aclements@swdc.wa.gov.au

Submission close: Tuesday, 24 September 2002.

---

NOTE: Transcribed from paper copy and so may contain errors.

PS: See the IT industry attraction project report I prepared for the Great 
Southern Region of Western Australia (next to the South West Region) at: 
http://www.tomw.net.au/gsr

The South West Development Commission's web site is at 
<http://swdc.wa.gov.au>, but the search facility didn't find  "Broadband".



Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150
Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309
http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617

----------
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Mon Sep  2 23:36:08 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 09:36:08 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <3D73EE79.3088ACFF@topic.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209030934310.1301-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

Are you sure that you are correct here.

I just tried with Konqueror with cookies rejected and had no problems.  I
then tried with lynx and rejected the JSESSIONID cookie and still got in.

Either they have fixed it or it wasn't a problem in  the first place.


On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Ian Macintosh wrote:

>
>
> Jan Whitaker wrote:
> >
> > At 08:12 PM 2/09/02 +1000, Carl Makin wrote:
> > >I automatically disable cookies except for certain known sites when
> > >browsing.  I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to require
> > >the use of cookies for any reason.
> >
> > The ABC tries to use cookies on several bits, but doesn't seem to block
> > access if you refuse.  I use a medium setting, allowing cookies back to the
> > same server as the originating website, but alert me if they are to a
> > different place. I generally say 'no' for the third party cookies.
> >
> > I've also found some sites that won't work if you refuse js loads.  That
> > one makes me angry, too.  Why should I allow things that are programs to
> > interact with my machine?
> >
> Of more annoyance are fallacious statements on the fed.gov.au site like
> (from their about page):
> "It is the Commonwealth's aim to provide equitable access to information
> and the variety of access approaches available on this site will allow
> you to choose the method of finding information that best suits you. The
> site has been developed with useability and accessibility principles as
> the main drivers for design. The incorporation of a common look and feel
> across the site with your needs and feedback providing guidance on
> specific features has resulted in a user-centred design where your input
> and feedback have real impact on development. "
>
> The above statement has not been achieved (if it ever was the aim).
> They have been told numerous times to allow non-cookie based access to
> the site but are patently ignoring user feedback.  I would suggest that
> we (users) do not have any "real impact on development".
>
> No more rants from me on this topic (well at least for a while) ;-)
>
> Ian Macintosh
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au  Mon Sep  2 23:49:02 2002
From: carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Date: 03 Sep 2002 09:49:02 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au>
References: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1031010542.31422.13.camel@newton.aipo.gov.au>

On Mon, 2002-09-02 at 23:37, Eric Scheid wrote:

> From: Carl Makin <carl@stagecraft.cx> (2/9/02 8:12 PM)

> >I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to 
> >require the use of cookies for any reason.

> It's a session cookie, as is apparent by (1) the fact it expires at the 
> end of the session, and (2) it is named JSESSIONID.

Yes it is a session cookie. But it is still a cookie and the
functionality of the site should not depend on it working.

> I guess you think the fed.gov.au folks shouldn't care just how people 
> actually use their website, what the common entry pages are, what the 

There are plenty of other ways to generate that information without
mandating cookies. 

> common exit pages are, whether people abandon their visit after trying 
> Dang it all, they should just slap up some HTML pages and hope they've 
> got it right. If they don't then tough bikkies. You don't honestly expect 
> them to gather information which informs their future development 
> decisions, surely?

No, I expect them to use appropriate and non-invasive methods to collect
their statistics, and since there are acceptable alternatives they
shouldn't be forcing visitors to have cookies enabled.

It's not about whether fed.gov.au are abusing cookies, it is that by
forcing people to use cookies they are actively helping less reputable
organisations violate my privacy.  I don't enable cookies by default,
even for .gov.au organisations as I can't be certain that I'm really
talking to that organisation, at least until after the page loads (and
perhaps even then).

Paranoid?  Yes probably, but I am concerned about the steady erosion of
my privacy in this society and while there isn't much I can do overall,
I will do what I can where I can.


Carl.

----------
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From carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au  Tue Sep  3 00:06:03 2002
From: carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Date: 03 Sep 2002 10:06:03 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209030934310.1301-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209030934310.1301-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <1031011563.31422.27.camel@newton.aipo.gov.au>

On Tue, 2002-09-03 at 09:36, Howard Lowndes wrote:

> Are you sure that you are correct here.

> I just tried with Konqueror with cookies rejected and had no problems.  I
> then tried with lynx and rejected the JSESSIONID cookie and still got in.
> 
> Either they have fixed it or it wasn't a problem in  the first place.

The problem is when you click on a link to go to another site.  The
redirection script throws an exception if cookies arn't enabled.

The only reason I can think of is they want to narrow down click through
traffic to individual people, ie they want to know if the same person
clicks on multiple links.  There are other ways to do this.  


Carl.

----------
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From cas@taz.net.au  Tue Sep  3 00:15:06 2002
From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:15:06 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au>
References: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au> <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au>
Message-ID: <20020903001506.GF29543@taz.net.au>

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 08:04:59AM +1000, Ian Macintosh wrote:
> Why do they have to use cookies to do tracking? What about sessionids
> in the URL, 

because session-ids in URLs are both stupid and ugly. they also break
the ability to bookmark a site.

cookies aren't inherently evil.  it's the way that they are used which
is potentially a problem.

AFAICT, www.fed.gov.au doesn't appear to be using them in a
privacy-invading manner.  click-tracking within a site is harmless.

cookie-phobia is at least as dangerous as cookies themselves, especially
if you end up deluding yourself that your privacy is "secure" just
because you have disabled cookies.


> or log file analysis, 

contrary to popular belief, web-server log files don't and can't tell
you anything about how many people are using a site, or what pages they
visit, or in what order.  at best you can make a rough *guess* at those
details based on the logs.

the only information in the logs is (roughly, depending on the brand of
web server and how it is configured) the client IP address or hostname,
the login details if the page/site requires a login, the date and time,
the URL requested, a success/failure code, the bytes transferred, and
optionally the referer url and browser identification string.

that doesn't tell you *anything* about the number of distinct people who
are using it.  you can make a dumb assumption that one IP address
corresponds to one person, but that fails on two counts: a) a proxy may
be fetching pages for more than one user, and b) a user behind a
load-balanced proxy array may be fetching pages via multiple different
proxy servers.

all logfile analysis programs (except for those which support
click-tracking cookies) make such guesses and assumptions.

the truth is that web logs can only reliably tell you what load the
server is handling.

> or ignore tracking those users who have cookies turned off?

yep, they could do that.  in fact, they should do that.

> <rant>
> I have also complained to them that their site is BROKEN (aka must use
> cookies).  

that is broken.  if the cookies are only used for click-tracking then
it can and should work for users who choose to disable cookies or who
are using a browser which doesn't support cookies.

craig

-- 
craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>

Fabricati Diem, PVNC.
 -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch
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From r.williams@acif.org.au  Tue Sep  3 00:16:28 2002
From: r.williams@acif.org.au (Robin Williams)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:16:28 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] ACIF PUBLIC COMMENT ADVERTISMENT
Message-ID: <4C3B0535C196D511B0E8000255C872FD1A56AF@ACIF-NT>

The Australian Communications Industry Forum (ACIF) invites public comment
from industry and consumers on a draft Industry Guideline that has been
released for a 30 day public comment period - i.e.

· DR ACIF G601 Consumer Contracts Industry Guideline

DR ACIF G601 Consumer Contracts Industry Guideline provides guidance on
industry best practice for contract provisions and guidance on unfair and
unintelligible contract terms generally and in specific contexts. 

The Australian Communications Industry Forum (ACIF) is an industry owned,
operated and resourced company established by the telecommunications
industry to implement and manage communications self-regulation within
Australia.  Its primary role is to develop and administer Standards and
Industry Codes, and provide Industry Facilitation Services that promote both
the long-term interests of end-users and the efficiency and international
competitiveness of the Australian communications industry.

ACIF welcomes your input.

Copies of the Draft Industry Guideline can be obtained from ACIF:

Telephone: (02) 9959 9111 E-mail: acif@acif.org.au
Facsimile: (02) 9954 6136 Web site: www.acif.org.au

PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD CLOSES AT 5.00 P.M. ON FRIDAY 4 OCTOBER 2002

Robin Williams
Coordinator - Events, Publications and Compliance
Australian Communications Industry Forum 
Telephone: (02) 9959 9113
Facsimile:  (02) 9954 6136
----------
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From foconno1@bigpond.net.au  Tue Sep  3 00:25:00 2002
From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:25:00 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <1031010542.31422.13.camel@newton.aipo.gov.au>
References: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au>
 <1031010542.31422.13.camel@newton.aipo.gov.au>
Message-ID: <p05100300b999b0966eab@[203.51.157.49]>

Agreed,

Session management (for transaction based interaction) is easily 
managed in a less amateur way than the fed.gov site seems to be doing 
it ... most app servers handle it routinely ... and if they are using 
the cookies for logging access data, then they should admit it.

And if they're not deleting the cookies when the session ends, then 
what other purpose can it have? Expired cookies can still be put to 
use.

Personally I don' worry too much about cookies ... and will accept 
them from the page originating site ... but I do get a tad steamed 
when I'm forced to do a heap of cleaning up every few months.   :)

				Regards,

At 9:49 AM +1000 3/9/02, Carl Makin wrote:
>On Mon, 2002-09-02 at 23:37, Eric Scheid wrote:
>
>>  From: Carl Makin <carl@stagecraft.cx> (2/9/02 8:12 PM)
>
>>  >I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to
>>  >require the use of cookies for any reason.
>
>>  It's a session cookie, as is apparent by (1) the fact it expires at the
>>  end of the session, and (2) it is named JSESSIONID.
>
>Yes it is a session cookie. But it is still a cookie and the
>functionality of the site should not depend on it working.
>
>>  I guess you think the fed.gov.au folks shouldn't care just how people
>>  actually use their website, what the common entry pages are, what the
>
>There are plenty of other ways to generate that information without
>mandating cookies.
>
>>  common exit pages are, whether people abandon their visit after trying
>>  Dang it all, they should just slap up some HTML pages and hope they've
>>  got it right. If they don't then tough bikkies. You don't honestly expect
>>  them to gather information which informs their future development
>>  decisions, surely?
>
>No, I expect them to use appropriate and non-invasive methods to collect
>their statistics, and since there are acceptable alternatives they
>shouldn't be forcing visitors to have cookies enabled.
>
>It's not about whether fed.gov.au are abusing cookies, it is that by
>forcing people to use cookies they are actively helping less reputable
>organisations violate my privacy.  I don't enable cookies by default,
>even for .gov.au organisations as I can't be certain that I'm really
>talking to that organisation, at least until after the page loads (and
>perhaps even then).
>
>Paranoid?  Yes probably, but I am concerned about the steady erosion of
>my privacy in this society and while there isn't much I can do overall,
>I will do what I can where I can.
>
>
>Carl.
>
>----------
>For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep  3 00:24:13 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:24:13 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB7E@EXCHANGE_AU>

Carl,

It also falls back to a natural and intelligent wariness of anybody who uses
"for your own good" to justify an action. "We use cookies so we can serve
you better" is a noble sentiment, but "you can't use my site without cookies
because I will serve you better" is just a sort of "take your medicine,
child!" attitude.

Also: surely there's a high correlation between refusing cookies and
Internet nous; IOW, we know exactly WHY we refuse cookies; we already know
that there are other ways to 'evaluate the user experience'; and we still
prefer not to have cookies imposed by fiat, just because somebody wants to
gather data they patently don't use...

RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Makin [mailto:carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 09:49
> To: Eric Scheid
> Cc: Link List
> Subject: Re: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2002-09-02 at 23:37, Eric Scheid wrote:
> 
> > From: Carl Makin <carl@stagecraft.cx> (2/9/02 8:12 PM)
> 
> > >I really can't see any reason for the www.fed.gov.au to 
> > >require the use of cookies for any reason.
> 
> > It's a session cookie, as is apparent by (1) the fact it 
> expires at the 
> > end of the session, and (2) it is named JSESSIONID.
> 
> Yes it is a session cookie. But it is still a cookie and the
> functionality of the site should not depend on it working.
> 
> > I guess you think the fed.gov.au folks shouldn't care just 
> how people 
> > actually use their website, what the common entry pages 
> are, what the 
> 
> There are plenty of other ways to generate that information without
> mandating cookies. 
> 
> > common exit pages are, whether people abandon their visit 
> after trying 
> > Dang it all, they should just slap up some HTML pages and 
> hope they've 
> > got it right. If they don't then tough bikkies. You don't 
> honestly expect 
> > them to gather information which informs their future development 
> > decisions, surely?
> 
> No, I expect them to use appropriate and non-invasive methods 
> to collect
> their statistics, and since there are acceptable alternatives they
> shouldn't be forcing visitors to have cookies enabled.
> 
> It's not about whether fed.gov.au are abusing cookies, it is that by
> forcing people to use cookies they are actively helping less reputable
> organisations violate my privacy.  I don't enable cookies by default,
> even for .gov.au organisations as I can't be certain that I'm really
> talking to that organisation, at least until after the page loads (and
> perhaps even then).
> 
> Paranoid?  Yes probably, but I am concerned about the steady 
> erosion of
> my privacy in this society and while there isn't much I can 
> do overall,
> I will do what I can where I can.
> 
> 
> Carl.
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From rick@praxis.com.au  Tue Sep  3 00:33:06 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 10:33:06 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
References: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3D740342.8F9F44DF@praxis.com.au>

Eric Scheid wrote:

> I guess you think the fed.gov.au folks shouldn't care just how people
> actually use their website, what the common entry pages are, what the
> common exit pages are, whether people abandon their visit after trying
> the search function or viewing the site map (ie. not following any links
> from there), ...

And I guess you think that web logs do not provide the above
information.

Cookies are not designed or intended for page tracking. As a matter of
fact, once a cookie is sent to the browser from page X on the web site,
and the browser subsequently returns the cookies with each HTTP request,
the cookie itself tells the web server *nothing* about navigation.

What does tell all is the HTTP Request and Referrer URI's. These are
logged along with lots of other goodies. It is an analysis of the web
logs that provides the information you speak of.



> Dang it all, they should just slap up some HTML pages and hope they've
> got it right. If they don't then tough bikkies. You don't honestly expect
> them to gather information which informs their future development
> decisions, surely?

THe cynic in me (and years of experience) tells me that very very very
few web developers / sys admins actually analyse traffic flow through
their websites in order to provide a better service. VERY few.

cheers
rickw


-- 
_________________________________
Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services

linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Tue Sep  3 00:45:18 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:45:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <1031011563.31422.27.camel@newton.aipo.gov.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209031036420.1301-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On 3 Sep 2002, Carl Makin wrote:

> On Tue, 2002-09-03 at 09:36, Howard Lowndes wrote:
>
> > Are you sure that you are correct here.
>
> > I just tried with Konqueror with cookies rejected and had no problems.  I
> > then tried with lynx and rejected the JSESSIONID cookie and still got in.
> >
> > Either they have fixed it or it wasn't a problem in  the first place.
>
> The problem is when you click on a link to go to another site.  The
> redirection script throws an exception if cookies arn't enabled.
>
> The only reason I can think of is they want to narrow down click through
> traffic to individual people, ie they want to know if the same person
> clicks on multiple links.  There are other ways to do this.

What I am noticing on a link is that the URL becomes, for example:
http://www.fed.gov.au/CountHits?redirectTo=http://nationalsecurity.ag.gov.au/

and then I get:
Error: 500

Location: /CountHits

The url trying to be counted is invalid.


If I enable cookies and force a query then the RBA site offers a cookie,
which if I reject then it will still load.  This is one of the problems
with TLDs in that one of the options to accept cookies is "from the same
domain", which with a .com domain would mean mydomain.com but with any
other TLD means the whole of .gov.au



-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep  3 00:45:19 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 10:45:19 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Broadband technology for Western Australia
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB81@EXCHANGE_AU>

Tom - it's a good thing you sent this, because it hasn't yet made it onto
the SWDC's Website...or at least into the site's search engine, where
"broadband" returns zero results. But lots of neat graphics, naturally...

RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Worthington [mailto:tom.worthington@tomw.net.au]
> Sent: Monday, 2 September 2002 09:41
> To: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: [LINK] Broadband technology for Western Australia
> Importance: Low
> 
> 
> This appeared in the weekend newspapers. I couldn't find it 
> on-line and 
> thought it may be of interest:
> 
> ---
> 
>            Government of Western Australia
>                Expressions of Interest
>           South West Development Commission
> 
>                 Broadband technology
>            South West of Western Australia
> 
>   An opportunity to plan and develop an integrated broadband
>     network in one of Australia's fastest growing regions.
> 
> The South West of Western Australia is a region of enormous 
> potential. With 
> a population growth rate at twice the national average and a 
> gross regional 
> product of $4.6 billion it's a great place in which to live 
> and invest.
> 
> The South West Development Commission is inviting ideas and 
> views from 
> telecommunications providers on how they might participate in 
> network and 
> service development in the region, including models for 
> delivery and financing.
> 
> There will be an opportunity to present ideas to the region's leading 
> business, community and government stakeholders on a 
> commercial-in-confidence basis. The information obtained will 
> be used to 
> provide advice to the State Government on the future of 
> telecommunications 
> in the region.
> 
> This is an opportunity to be part of a region gaining international 
> recognition for its lifestyle and economic vibrancy. It is 
> fast-becoming a 
> region of excellence in information technology.
> 
> For further details contact: Mr. Ashley Clements, Executive 
> Officer, South 
> west Online, South West Development Commission, Telephone: 9792 2000, 
> Facsimile: 9791 3223, E-mail: aclements@swdc.wa.gov.au
> 
> Submission close: Tuesday, 24 September 2002.
> 
> ---
> 
> NOTE: Transcribed from paper copy and so may contain errors.
> 
> PS: See the IT industry attraction project report I prepared 
> for the Great 
> Southern Region of Western Australia (next to the South West 
> Region) at: 
> http://www.tomw.net.au/gsr
> 
> The South West Development Commission's web site is at 
> <http://swdc.wa.gov.au>, but the search facility didn't find  
> "Broadband".
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150
> Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309
> http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617
> 
> ----------
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> 
----------
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From rick@praxis.com.au  Tue Sep  3 01:08:29 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:08:29 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209031036420.1301-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <3D740B8D.72CB0A39@praxis.com.au>

Howard Lowndes wrote:

> What I am noticing on a link is that the URL becomes, for example:
> http://www.fed.gov.au/CountHits?redirectTo=http://
> and then I get:
> Error: 500
> 
> Location: /CountHits
> 
> The url trying to be counted is invalid.

Why on earth are they doing the above?
Most (at least 99%) of browsers send the following header:

Referrer: http://www.fed.gov.au/

(See RFC 1945).

Cockamamie techniques like the above to 'count' clicks, either from
www.fed.gov.au or to nationalsecurity.ag.gov.au are simply not necessary.
It shows a basic misunderstanding of the HTTP protocol. And it results
in bizarre error msgs like the above "The url trying to be counted is invalid."
which is very strange English. Your average punter would have no hope in 
hell figuring it out. (Passive aggressive voice with a bit of anthropomorphism
thrown in to stir up th the pot.)


cheers
rickw




-- 
_________________________________
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linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Tue Sep  3 01:14:07 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:14:07 +1000
Subject: [LINK] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Intel=92s?= R&D budget bigger than 
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Australia=92s?=
Message-ID: <3D740CDF.D82989BF@austarmetro.com.au>

Intel’s R&D budget bigger than Australia’s
By James Riley, iTnews
Monday, 02 September 2002
http://www.itnews.com.au/story.cfm?ID=10686

Australia's ability to compete in the global services economy is at risk
because of the nation's relatively low investment in research and
development, according to Intel chief executive Craig Barrett.

Although comparing well against other developed nations in indicators such
as PC penetration and Internet connections, Barrett said the most
"striking" statistic about Australia was its tiny R&D budget.

Australia spends less than one percent of its gross domestic product (GDP)
on R&D, compared to close to 5 percent in the US, and four percent in the
UK.

Based on a rough a rough annual GDP figure for Australia of US$350 billion,
Barrett said the combined total of all public and private sector R&D
spending locally was "somewhere less than US$3.5 billion" on research and
development.

"Intel by itself spends about $4 billion a year on R&D," Barrett said. "So
my company out spends your country. (And) my revenue base is not nearly as
high as your GDP base," he said.

Barrett said the low level of R&D investment should be focus of "a national
debate for the citizens of Australia". He said Australia was well
positioned to take advantage of opportunities to export broadband services
to Asia, but warned those opportunities could be lost without greater R&D
and broadband infrastructure investment.

Despite the worst recession the IT industry has endured in 30 years,
Barrett said the internet had largely delivered on its early promise,
particularly in business to business electronic commerce.

Intel, he said, was looking to save about US$1 billion annually through its
Internet-based sales and procurement programs. The company sold more than
US$25 billion worth of goods and services via Internet-based systems, and
bought more than $10 billion worth of goods and services through Internet
procurement systems.

Broadband would be the next frontier of Internet services, and Australia
was well placed as a regional centre for the development of broadband
services and business models.

Barrett said estimates in the US suggested that broadband services could
add as much as five percent - or US$500 billion - to that nation's GDP
annually, suggesting percentage increase may be similar in Australia.

Meanwhile, Barrett said Intel would continue to make venture capital
investments in Australia and the region through its Intel development fund.

Intel has so far invested in eight Australian companies and about 120
throughout the region, most made during the height of the Internet boom.

Barrett said Intel's investments had slowed in the past 18 months, largely
because its more traditional venture capital investment partners had become
more cautious in the wake of the dotcom bubble's burst.

Although Intel's investment rates were down to about one-third of levels
two years ago, Barrett said the company had no plan to reduce the amount of
funds already earmarked for its ongoing strategic investment plans.

-- 
Now who is responsible for this work of development on which so much
depends? To whom must the praise be given? To the boys in the back rooms.
They do not sit in the limelight. But they are the men who do the work.
-- Lord Beaverbrook, March 1941

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep  3 02:02:17 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:02:17 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Intel?s R&D budget bigger than  Australia?s
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB92@EXCHANGE_AU>

I know, don't blame the journalist, "I'm just reporting what he said."

Lots of nice one-liners, but nothing new except that Intel has learned that
Australia's cringe guarantees copy.

> Based on a rough a rough annual GDP figure for Australia of 
> US$350 billion,

The ABS and a calculator make this $400 billion, but that's a quibble...

We flayed ourselves for not being a "new economy", but are now not suffering
such a hangover from crookedness and chicanery... but still, "you're not new
economy enough" is the cry.

> "So my company out spends your country. (And) my revenue base is 
> not nearly as high as your GDP base," he said.

Let's make the comparison more accurate ... how much, for example, does
Intel spend on:
...a national healthcare system?
...universities?
...welfare?
...agriculture?
...police?
...justice?
Zero? Well, in that case I guess "my country outspends your company on the
well-being of citizens".

> Despite the worst recession the IT industry has endured in 30 years,
> Barrett said the internet had largely delivered on its early promise,
> particularly in business to business electronic commerce.
> 
> Intel, he said, was looking to save about US$1 billion 
> annually through its Internet-based sales and procurement programs. The
company 
> sold more than US$25 billion worth of goods and services via
Internet-based 
> systems, and bought more than $10 billion worth of goods and services 
> through Internet procurement systems.

I've discussed this before. In any contested market, it's impossible to
impose a particular sales model on your consumer. Only where there's
inadequate competition (banking comes to mind!) can a vendor say "you WILL
deal with us the way WE require, and if you don't like it you're out of
business".

The Intel numbers also conveniently ignore the supply chain all the way to
the consumer: Intel benefits disproportionately by the Internet because it
deals through tied intermediaries. Those intermediaries, not Intel, are the
ones who have to bear the cost of physical retail presence.

I'm in favour of debate about R&D in Australia, but this isn't debate. It's
the usual "someone says something exciting, everybody falls over themselves
to report it, nobody asks for any assertion or number to be backed up
because it's CRAIG BARRETT and who are we to challenge him?"

Richard Chirgwin
PS. No, I didn't go to the media event. The invitation was enough to put me
off, Craig Barrett with a chip die forming a halo behind his head - I'm not
joking - and the following text:

You are invited to an exclusive session with Craig R Barrett, Chief
Executive Officer, Intel Corporation

Across Australia, companies are switched-on to the digital future,
discovering the new era of computing and communications. Broadband access,
wireless connectivity, ways to entertain and learn, and more efficient
business processes - and it's only the beginning. Join us as Craig looks
into the digital future and highlights the hardware and software
capabilities that can transform Australia.

Somehow, the notion of exclusivity being delivered in a room with 50 other
journalists didn't grab me...
RC
----------
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 02:00:01 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:00:01 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Reliable web server, no operating system
Message-ID: <a05100305b999c812a153@[10.0.1.202]>

Extracted item provided for information.

Source:Edupage, August 26, 2002
- - - - -
RELIABLE WEB SERVER, NO OPERATING SYSTEM
Two former Motorola engineers, frustrated by the constant attention and
maintenance required to keep Web servers running and safe from attack,
have designed a new Web server to run--potentially for years--without
human input. The server runs on a "kernel," just 4KB in size, rather
than having an operating system. According to Eric Hauk and Eric Uner,
the two men behind the project, it is a significant departure from
every other sort of device running the Internet today. Their server
eschews the notion of "enterprise computing" in favor of "embedded
computing," which lies behind medical and other devices that have
extremely small margins for error. Hauk and Uner said their server is
virtually immune from hackers and viruses, though they concede their
system sacrifices some flexibility for its security and reliability.
Some observers were skeptical, saying that the system's security has
not yet been tested and that other systems can be made extremely
reliable if operators install patches and updates.
NewsFactor Network, 26 August 2002
http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/19164.html
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 01:57:56 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 11:57:56 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Judge throws out patent claim on hyperlinking
Message-ID: <a05100304b999c79483c3@[10.0.1.202]>

Extracted item provided for information.

Source:Edupage, August 23, 2002
- - - - -
JUDGE THROWS OUT PATENT CLAIM ON HYPERLINKING
A federal judge in New York Thursday threw out a lawsuit filed by
British Telecommunications (BT) claiming a patent on Internet
hyperlinking technology. The company had sued Prodigy Communications
Corp., saying that Prodigy had violated BT's patent when it used
hyperlinks. A spokesman from Prodigy, now a part of SBC Communications,
said that because Prodigy was the first commercial ISP in the United
States, it was chosen as the target of BT's patent claim. The
spokesman said Prodigy hopes the judge's ruling puts an end to the
issue.
IDG, 23 August 2002
http://www.idg.net/ic_939438_4394_1-3921.html
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----------
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 02:02:07 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:02:07 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Doubleclick to pay fine, modify privacy policy
Message-ID: <a05100307b999c892bf53@[10.0.1.202]>

Extracted item provided for information.

Source:Edupage, August 28, 2002
- - - - -
DOUBLECLICK TO PAY FINE, MODIFY PRIVACY POLICY
Online ad provider DoubleClick Inc. has agreed to modify its privacy
policy and pay a $450,000 fine after a 30-month investigation into the
company's handling of consumer data. DoubleClick's ads use cookies to
track users' surfing habits, and privacy groups had accused the
company of abusing the information it collected. Under the agreement,
DoubleClick will make user profiles available to consumers, verify its
compliance with the settlement, and pay the fine. Web sites that permit
DoubleClick ads to collect user information must state this in their
privacy policies. Consumer data will no longer be shared without
permission from individuals, and DoubleClick is developing a tool for
users to review the data the company has collected on them.
New York Times, 27 August 2002 (registration req'd)
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/technology/AP-DoubleClick-Probe.html
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 02:07:15 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:07:15 +1000
Subject: [LINK] eTerrorism: Weighing security against liberties
Message-ID: <a0510030ab999c9ca08d8@[10.0.1.202]>

eTerrorism: Weighing security against liberties
Part 2: No prosecutions under new security laws have been reported, 
but critics say aggressive investigations and public overreaction 
have had a chilling effect on personal freedoms.
  <http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?185439 >Read Full Story
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 02:01:19 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:01:19 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Study shows mixed result for e-books
Message-ID: <a05100306b999c863b451@[10.0.1.202]>

Extracted item provided for information.

Source:Edupage, August 26, 2002
- - - - -
STUDY SHOWS MIXED RESULT FOR E-BOOKS
A study conducted at Ball State University showed that e-books are
having mixed success competing with conventional printed texts. The
study compared comments and academic performance between those using
printed texts and those using e-books. Quiz scores between the two
groups were, on average, the same, suggesting similar instructional
potential from e-books. Users of e-books, however, complained about the
difficulty of navigating through e-books and of finding particular
words. E-book features that drew praise were those that were similar to
what can be done with a printed book, such as highlighting sections of
text. The directors of the study said they remain optimistic about the
potential for e-books, seeing value in the ability to store several
whole texts on a single device and to have those texts updated every
semester.
Chronicle of Higher Education, 26 August 2002
http://chronicle.com/free/2002/08/2002082601t.htm

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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 02:04:00 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:04:00 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Higher education grapples with online learning ventures
Message-ID: <a05100309b999c901d989@[10.0.1.202]>

Extracted item provided for information.

Source:Edupage, August 28, 2002
- - - - -
HIGHER EDUCATION GRAPPLES WITH ONLINE LEARNING VENTURES
A series of setbacks and difficulties have kept for-profit, online
higher education spin-offs from realizing success. Ventures at schools
including Columbia University and New York University have been scaled
back or dropped. UMUC Online, the online project of the University of
Maryland University College, was scrapped last fall. But many involved
in such initiatives still believe in the potential for online higher
education. Gerald A. Heeger, the president of UMUC and champion of UMUC
Online, thinks that online learning can actually be better than
traditional, residential education. Matthew Pittinsky, chairman of
Blackboard, said that for every failed venture there are five that
succeed. Adam Newman of Eduventures said that the industry has seen a
"retrenchment" that focuses online initiatives where they can succeed,
such as in supplements to traditional classes.
Washington Post, 27 August 2002
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1393-2002Aug27.html
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 02:03:10 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:03:10 +1000
Subject: [LINK] IBM researcher tries to build an ethical computer
Message-ID: <a05100308b999c8cfcdb3@[10.0.1.202]>

Extracted item provided for information.

Source:Edupage, August 28, 2002
- - - - -
IBM RESEARCHER TRIES TO BUILD AN ETHICAL COMPUTER
A scientist at IBM is working on a "Hippocratic database" that he says
is based on a code of responsibility for the data it holds. Rakesh
Agrawal's idea was influenced by his brother, a doctor, who pointed
out that the Hippocratic Oath is a strong foundation for people's
trust in their doctors. Agrawal's database goes beyond basic rules for
handling data, including reasons why each piece of data is collected
and limits on how long those data should be kept. Data that are no
longer needed are deleted from the database. Rules in the functioning
of the database allow enforcement of the underlying policies for what
data are collected, how they are used, and how long they are kept.
According to Agrawal, a World Wide Web Consortium standard that aims
for the same level of trust lacks any provision for enforcement.
PCWorld, 27 August 2002
http://www.idg.net/ic_940272_1794_9-10000.html
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Tue Sep  3 02:52:01 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:52:01 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB7E@EXCHANGE_AU>; from Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au on Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 10:24:13AM +1000
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB7E@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <20020903125201.A26582@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> Also: surely there's a high correlation between refusing cookies and
> Internet nous; 

Indeed.  Requring users to accept cookies may only exclude 1% of
users, but that 1% may represent 10 or 20% of people who have their
own web sites (and won't link to a site they can't use themselves)
or who advise others about web sites.

So I've just taken the fed.gov.au link off the startup page most of
my 100+ users use -- I assume it wasn't getting much use, anyway,
since my link pointed at an old www.fed.gov.au/text/ page that no
longer exists (and doesn't redirects, sigh) and no one has bothered
to report it as broken.

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------
----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Tue Sep  3 02:56:43 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:56:43 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <20020903001506.GF29543@taz.net.au>; from cas@taz.net.au on Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 10:15:06AM +1000
References: <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au> <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au> <20020903001506.GF29543@taz.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020903125643.B26582@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Another problem is that, if you aren't accepting cookies, the site
doesn't say "you must enable cookies" -- it just silently fails to
work...  In most cases I don't have time to mess around working out why
a site isn't working, I just label it "broken" and go somewhere else.

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------
----------
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From notes/Rci@RCI.AU.COM  Tue Sep  3 02:58:25 2002
From: notes/Rci@RCI.AU.COM (notes/Rci@RCI.AU.COM)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:58:25 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Report to Sender
Message-ID: <OFE8C35C95.AA4E66B1-ON4A256C29.001055E4@rci.au.com>

Incident Information:-

Database: e:/lotus/domino/data/mail.box
Originator:    link <link@charlotte.anu.edu.au>
Recipients:    rcimail@rcipacific.com
Subject:  Worm Klez.E immunity
Date/Time:     09/03/2002 12:58:17 PM

The file attachment Hbn.bat you sent to the recipients listed above was
infected with the W32/Klez.h@MM virus and was not successfully cleaned.

----------
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From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au  Tue Sep  3 03:11:30 2002
From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:11:30 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
Message-ID: <200209030311.g833BaLV025295@anu.edu.au>

From: Carl Makin <carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au> (3/9/02 10:06 AM)

>The problem is when you click on a link to go to another site.  The
>redirection script throws an exception if cookies arn't enabled.

Well spotted. Unfair to characterise one cgi function as being the entire 
site though.

e.

______________________________________________________________________
eric@ironclad.net.au                 i r o n c l a d   n e t w o r k s
information architect                      http://www.ironclad.net.au/


----------
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From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au  Tue Sep  3 03:11:29 2002
From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:11:29 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
Message-ID: <200209030311.g833BY9v022889@anu.edu.au>

From: Rick Welykochy <rick@praxis.com.au> (3/9/02 10:33 AM)

>The cynic in me (and years of experience) tells me that very very very
>few web developers / sys admins actually analyse traffic flow through
>their websites in order to provide a better service. VERY few.

For quite some time very few have ever heard of User Centered Design, or 
HCI, or Usability, or considered respecting privacy. Each of these are 
changing. This is no longer the age of "build it and they will come", 
today professional websites need to pay attention and evolve, else lose 
out to faster evolving competitors.

More realistically, this is a time of transition from the earlier 
gee-whiz age to the business-case age. Expect hold outs.

e.

______________________________________________________________________
eric@ironclad.net.au                 i r o n c l a d   n e t w o r k s
information architect                      http://www.ironclad.net.au/


----------
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Tue Sep  3 03:19:38 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:19:38 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Critics fight RIAA file-trader action
Message-ID: <a05100301b999dac2056e@[10.0.1.202]>

Critics fight RIAA file-trader action
Consumer and privacy groups are arguing that the recording industry 
does not have the right to find out the identity of a Kazaa 
file-trader.
  <http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?185535>Read Full Story

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From carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au  Tue Sep  3 04:02:19 2002
From: carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Date: 03 Sep 2002 14:02:19 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <200209030311.g833BaLV025295@anu.edu.au>
References: <200209030311.g833BaLV025295@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1031025739.31422.32.camel@newton.aipo.gov.au>

On Tue, 2002-09-03 at 13:11, Eric Scheid wrote:

> From: Carl Makin <carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au> (3/9/02 10:06 AM)

>> redirection script throws an exception if cookies arn't enabled.

> Well spotted. Unfair to characterise one cgi function as being the entire 
> site though.

Normally I wouldn't, but in this case it happens to be one of the
primary functions of the site.


Carl.

----------
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Tue Sep  3 04:09:56 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:09:56 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Higher education grapples with online learning ventures
References: <a05100309b999c901d989@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <3D743614.A96F8EC6@austarmetro.com.au>

Tony Barry wrote:
> 
> Extracted item provided for information.
> 
> Source:Edupage, August 28, 2002
> - - - - -
> HIGHER EDUCATION GRAPPLES WITH ONLINE LEARNING VENTURES
> A series of setbacks and difficulties have kept for-profit, online
> higher education spin-offs from realizing success.

MP had help getting his MBA over the line, university chiefs told
By Aban Contractor, Higher Education Writer
September 3 2002
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/03/1030953437471.html

The University of Newcastle is investigating an allegation against a
federal Labor MP that he used a former academic to write an assignment for
his Master of Business Administration degree.

A letter to the vice-chancellor claims the member for the NSW seat of
Hunter, Joel Fitzgibbon, invited the former academic to use a
taxpayer-funded computer to help him write the assignment for his on-line
university course this year.

Yesterday Mr Fitzgibbon said the allegations were made by "a former
disgruntled employee" and were totally unfounded.

"They are totally without any basis. I'm very concerned for the academics
who have been charged with it because these things can affect people's
careers."

The Herald understands that the NSW Ombudsman has been asked to investigate
the integrity of on-line courses.

The letter, written by former employee Brendan Lalor, also alleges the MP's
assignment was written in the full view of another academic.

The vice-chancellor, Professor Roger Holmes, said he had spoken to this
person. He refused to confirm that the complaint was about Mr Fitzgibbon
but said the deputy vice-chancellor would write to the student involved.
"We got this letter on Friday and we've taken action today," he said.

Under the university's enterprise bargaining agreement, initial
investigation of the complaint is done by the vice-chancellor. If it
proceeds, the academic has two weeks to respond.

"I met with the staff member today," Professor Holmes said. "He has two
weeks to get back to me."

The university can dismiss the allegations, make a decision on them, or the
matter can be put to a staff disciplinary committee.

Mr Lalor claims his computer was used throughout a day and a half by the
academic, drafting an essay for Mr Fitzgibbon.

Mr Lalor has also forwarded his letter of complaint to the NSW Ombudsman.

It is understood that the Ombudsman is already investigating wider
complaints about the university's on-line courses, especially those where
students sit exams by email.

The Ombudsman is also investigating a complaint about a senior academic at
the university who allegedly plagiarised a student's work and submitted it
for a research grant worth thousands of dollars.

-- 
In certain situations all other existing rules may be ignored.
-- World Boxing Association's Rule 19

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Tue Sep  3 04:36:00 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:36:00 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Melbourne/Victoria IRC - 7 September
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903143148.0227e800@pop.primenet.com>

A reminder, the Victorian branch of the Link Institute will have a luncheon 
meeting on Saturday, 7 September
approx 12.30
Palms Food Court
213-215 Blackburn Road
Syndal

No topic, no speaker, just a chance for a f2f with fellow Linkers.

If you haven't been on my on-going update lists and would like to come 
along, please advise.  I've booked a table for based on current known 
numbers.  It is an open food court dining room, so should be OK for new 
joiners to come along.

Cheers,
Jan

JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Tue Sep  3 05:04:18 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 15:04:18 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <20020903001506.GF29543@taz.net.au>
References: <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au>
 <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au>
 <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903150317.02267b50@pop.primenet.com>

At 10:15 AM 3/09/02 +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
>that doesn't tell you *anything* about the number of distinct people who
>are using it.  you can make a dumb assumption that one IP address
>corresponds to one person, but that fails on two counts: a) a proxy may
>be fetching pages for more than one user, and b) a user behind a
>load-balanced proxy array may be fetching pages via multiple different
>proxy servers.

Interesting analysis, but given that so much data is collected and ignored 
anyway, why not use a simpler system?

I read your analysis of log info.  Very interesting.  Are you aware of a 
program called pwebstats from the University of Melbourne?  Worth a 
look.  We use it and if tells us most of the data we need.  I'm always a 
bit sus when a site wants data trackable to a particular person.  So what 
if it's summative data as you describe from a proxy access?  That sort of 
info is close enough for most purposes, considering people seldom look at 
the data collected anyway or make adjustments based on them!!! :-)

http://www.unimelb.edu.au/pwebstats/pwebstats.html


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From cas@taz.net.au  Tue Sep  3 05:35:13 2002
From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 15:35:13 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903150317.02267b50@pop.primenet.com>
References: <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au> <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au> <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.20020903150317.02267b50@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <20020903053513.GA26342@taz.net.au>

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 03:04:18PM +1000, Jan Whitaker wrote:
> At 10:15 AM 3/09/02 +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> >that doesn't tell you *anything* about the number of distinct people
> >who are using it.  you can make a dumb assumption that one IP address
> >corresponds to one person, but that fails on two counts: a) a proxy
> >may be fetching pages for more than one user, and b) a user behind a
> >load-balanced proxy array may be fetching pages via multiple
> >different proxy servers.
> 
> Interesting analysis, but given that so much data is collected and
> ignored anyway, why not use a simpler system?

who said anything about it being ignored?

> I read your analysis of log info.  Very interesting.  Are you aware of
> a program called pwebstats from the University of Melbourne?  

yes, i'm aware of it.  i first encountered it in, i think 1997.  might
have been as early as 1995.  i used it for a while.  i now use other
programs which, imo, are better.

> Worth a look.  We use it and if tells us most of the data we need.
> I'm always a bit sus when a site wants data trackable to a particular
> person.  So what if it's summative data as you describe from a proxy
> access?  That sort of info is close enough for most purposes,
> considering people seldom look at the data collected anyway or make
> adjustments based on them!!! :-)

your "most purposes" doesn't include counting the actual number of
people who visit the site.  as i said in my previous message, without
click-tracking, the best you can do is make assumptions and guess.

craig

-- 
craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>

Fabricati Diem, PVNC.
 -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Tue Sep  3 05:37:59 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 15:37:59 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Higher education grapples with online learning
  ventures
In-Reply-To: <a05100309b999c901d989@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903153326.022a4640@pop.primenet.com>

At 12:04 PM 3/09/02 +1000, Tony Barry wrote:
>  Matthew Pittinsky, chairman of
>Blackboard, said that for every failed venture there are five that
>succeed. Adam Newman of Eduventures said that the industry has seen a
>"retrenchment" that focuses online initiatives where they can succeed,
>such as in supplements to traditional classes.


puh-leeze!  The point in the story was "for profit" ventures failing.

>setbacks and difficulties have kept for-profit, online
>higher education spin-offs from realizing success.

There is a LOT of online education going on just fine, thank you very 
much.  What I've never understood is why institutions thought people would 
pay with a profit margin as part of the charge?  Makes no sense, 
particularly in the US where non-campus programs are so pervasive, face to 
face or otherwise.  The only ones who got caught are those who thought they 
had something new, or were being sold a bill of goods by licensed software 
vendors like Blackboard [quoted above].

I had a contrarian view to Steve Talbott a few months ago on a similar 
stance of the 'death of online education'.  Richard C, you've taught be to 
be very skeptical of media reports....

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Tue Sep  3 06:32:10 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:32:10 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
In-Reply-To: <20020903053513.GA26342@taz.net.au>; from cas@taz.net.au on Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 03:35:13PM +1000
References: <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au> <200209021337.g82Dbl9v013171@anu.edu.au> <3D73E08B.3D50B78E@topic.com.au> <5.0.2.1.0.20020903150317.02267b50@pop.primenet.com> <20020903053513.GA26342@taz.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020903163210.A313@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Craig Sanders wrote:
> your "most purposes" doesn't include counting the actual number of
> people who visit the site.  as i said in my previous message, without
> click-tracking, the best you can do is make assumptions and guess.
 
You still have to make assumptions and guesses with session cookies,
since different browser sessions by the same user will be counted
separately.  And even if you use permanent cookies, you still can't
follow the same person using different computers, or people who
periodically delete their cookies.

It's true that if you just count unique agent/host pairs in your log
files, reinitialising at regular time intervals, you'll get errors
a few percent higher -- but how many sites do the kind of analysis
where that level of error matters?

Another drawback of stopping clients that won't accept cookies and
do Javascript from viewing your pages is that search engine spiders
don't do cookies or Javascript... maybe that's not so important for a
portal without that much content of its own, but for many sites it's
a real killer.

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------

----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Tue Sep  3 06:36:25 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:36:25 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Higher education grapples with online learning ventures
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020903153326.022a4640@pop.primenet.com>; from jwhit@PrimeNet.Com on Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 03:37:59PM +1000
References: <a05100309b999c901d989@[10.0.1.202]> <5.0.2.1.0.20020903153326.022a4640@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <20020903163625.B313@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Jan Whitaker wrote:
> There is a LOT of online education going on just fine, thank you very 
> much.  What I've never understood is why institutions thought people would 
> pay with a profit margin as part of the charge?  

Hear, Hear!  All other things being equal, aren't small profit margins
a sign that the sector is doing well?

Vendors like Blackboard that have managed to lock clients in to
proprietary systems may be able to extract extra profits, but that's
going to be the exception.

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------
----------
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From grove@zeta.org.au  Tue Sep  3 06:43:38 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:43:38 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] IBM researcher tries to build an ethical computer
In-Reply-To: <a05100308b999c8cfcdb3@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209031642500.15015-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Tony Barry wrote:

> IBM RESEARCHER TRIES TO BUILD AN ETHICAL COMPUTER
> A scientist at IBM is working on a "Hippocratic database" that he says
> is based on a code of responsibility for the data it holds. Rakesh
> Agrawal's idea was influenced by his brother, a doctor, who pointed
> out that the Hippocratic Oath is a strong foundation for people's
> trust in their doctors.


I believe he is an ex-UWS Nepean professor......


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

----------
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From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au  Tue Sep  3 08:06:13 2002
From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:06:13 +1000
Subject: [LINK] www.fed.gov.au requires cookies.
Message-ID: <200209030806.g8386JfG005218@anu.edu.au>

From: Carl Makin <carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au> (3/9/02 2:02 PM)

>>> redirection script throws an exception if cookies arn't enabled.
>
>> Well spotted. Unfair to characterise one cgi function as being the entire 
>> site though.
>
>Normally I wouldn't, but in this case it happens to be one of the
>primary functions of the site.

I take it all back -- it just so happens that there are only a handful of 
links on the front page that don't require the cookie, and my dumb luck 
was to click one as my no-cookie test.

Turns out the site uses javascript to update a hidden form which it then 
submits to effect the internal navigation. Evil.

e.

______________________________________________________________________
eric@ironclad.net.au                 i r o n c l a d   n e t w o r k s
information architect                      http://www.ironclad.net.au/


----------
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From stephen@melbpc.org.au  Tue Sep  3 08:59:21 2002
From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 18:59:21 +1000
Subject: [LINK] ACS policy?
Message-ID: <200209030900.g8390HS2033714@relay1.melbpc.org.au>

Hi there,

The last paragraph of this news item may offer food
for thought for our Australian Computer Society, and
Linkers. Is ACS policy perhaps indeed protectionism?
(Common disclaimer about shooting the messenger etc)

--
Woo Migrants or Perish, Warns IT leader
By Nathan Cochrane
September 3 2002

Australia will perish unless it imports more skilled migrants to overcome
a crisis in imagination and economic activity, says .. Indian-born Roach,
who is chairman of Fujitsu Australia ..


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/08/31/1030508143890.html

"Immigrants also provide that magical and essential ingredient, which is 
diversity," he says. "Diversity encourages creativity and innovation, the
primary drivers of income and wealth creation in the information age."

Roach believes Australia needs to decide whether to follow the example
of the United States or Japan. Whereas the US has built its fortunes on a
steady flow of migrants, especially from India and China, Japan has remained
homogenous and has stagnated.

The attitude of industry groups such as the Australian Computer Society,
of which Roach is a fellow, and which believe immigration should stall during
the IT recession, smacks of old-fashioned protectionism, Roach says.
--

Cheers all ..
Stephen Loosley
Melbourne, Australia
----------
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From profilealert3389@zapo.net  Mon Sep  2 20:36:11 2002
From: profilealert3389@zapo.net (The Wall Street Reporter)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 03:36:11 -1700
Subject: [LINK] Smart Stock Watch  - GKIG.BB             OVRX
Message-ID: <000029860392$00005b81$00006330@host99.ancientmedia.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/88daec7d/attachment.htm
From rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU  Tue Sep  3 13:22:37 2002
From: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU (David Chia)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:22:37 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] eSuds: Online IBM Washing Machine
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020903225851.1665A-100000@atlantic>


  http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/08/30/offbeat.smart.dorm.laundry.ap/

  IBM unveils 'smart' laundry for dorms
  August 30, 2002 Posted: 10:44 PM EDT (0244 GMT)

  Students can log onto a Web page to see if
  there are free machines and receive an e-mail or page when
  the load is finished.


No doubt it will use the SOAP protocol and the WSDL (Washing Service
Dormitory Laundry) specification.

----------
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From grove@zeta.org.au  Tue Sep  3 13:38:50 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:38:50 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] RE: Legal Notification (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209032337160.15190-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

Here is my reply from ISC2.

I reported the suspect email to them.

I recommend anyone else receiving a similar email do the same,
ensuring the full headers are visible.


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 08:57:42 -0400
From: "Wilfred L Camilleri, CISSP" <webmaster@isc2.org>
To: grove@zeta.org.au
Subject: RE: Legal Notification (fwd)

Dear Rachel:

Thank you for bringing this incident to our attention.  At
(ISC)2, Inc. we take all security incidents seriously.

The e-mail you received is a hoax and the "From" address in
the e-mail is forged.

We are currently investigating this incident and we will take
action to stop this abuse once we have identified the source.

Sincerely,
Wilfred
_________________
Webmaster
(ISC)2, Inc.
Web: www.isc2.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Polanskis [mailto:grove@zeta.org.au]
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 9:44 AM
To: abuse@isc2.org
Subject: Legal Notification (fwd)


I received this email from someone puporting to
be an agent on your behalf.

Please cease and desist.


Rachel Polanskis
Senior UNIX Systems Administrator
Virago Computer Systems


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Return-Path: <info@isc2.org>
Received: from isc2.org (www.csp.on.ca [209.226.5.130] (may be forged))
	by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA08995
	for <grove@zeta.org.au>; Sun, 1 Sep 2002 15:09:24 GMT
X-Server: isc2.org securing the internet
Message-ID: <005801c2520e$92675320$0400a8c0@localhost>
Reply-To: "Anthony Baratta, CISSP" <info@isc2.org>
From: "Anthony Baratta, CISSP" <info@isc2.org>
To: grove@zeta.org.au
Subject: Legal Notification
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 13:23:25 -1000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01C251BA.C073B2D0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

Legal Notification



You are herby informed that (under the privacy act), the International
Information System Security Certification Consortium (ISC)2  has sold your
information including,

Name ,

E-Mail address,

Residential address,

Credit and savings information,

Social Security information,

and Occupation details.

This information has been sold to a third Party \ Parties and this E-mail
serves as notification for such action.

This information was sold under the premise for marketing and research.

Under the privacy act you may request to see in writing any information that
we have about you. Please write to the following address with a self
addressed envelope.



(ISC)2

860 Worcester Rd.,Ste 101

Framingham, Ma 01702

U.S.A



If you have any questions about the third Party \ Parties please inquire
with them. The International Information System Security Certification
Consortium (ISC)2 is no longer  responsible for the information sold. (ISC)2
Will hold no responsibility for damages and loss suffered by the reader of
this E-mail. (ISC)2 is not responsible for the actions of third party
companies.



Upon written request we will consider deleting records that we currently
hold about you. A processing fee of $ 10.00 will apply.

Please make out this check to (ISC)2 and an application form will be mailed
to you in order to complete this request.

Please visit our web site for more information about our organization



http://www.isc2.org



If you decline this offer by the 31 Sep 2002 a charge of $50 will be
deducted from your account. This charge will cover services that our
organization provides to secure the internet.



Thank you

Manager of Professional Programs

Anthony Baratta, CISSP

abaratta@isc2.org



Contact E-Mail  info@isc2.org



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From rick@praxis.com.au  Tue Sep  3 13:47:14 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 23:47:14 +1000
Subject: [LINK] ACS policy?
References: <200209030900.g8390HS2033714@relay1.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <3D74BD62.B21FBF2@praxis.com.au>

Stephen Loosley wrote:

> Woo Migrants or Perish, Warns IT leader
> By Nathan Cochrane
> September 3 2002
> 
> Australia will perish unless it imports more skilled migrants to overcome
> a crisis in imagination and economic activity, says .. Indian-born Roach,
> who is chairman of Fujitsu Australia ..

Good advice, of course.

And backed up by the sentiments of one (Hon) Sr. Ruddock who stated this
evening on an SBS program looking at the asylum seekers something to effect
that those people seeking refuge in Australia are taking jobs that Aussies
should be doing. Jobs like: fruit picking, garbage collection, manual labour,
road repairs, etc.etc.etc. Strangely, none of these refugees have any 'skills'
needed by this country.

As we all know, we Aussies are expert at such 'unskilled' jobs and there is little
need to improve and hone our skills to become part of the Information Revolution.

Knowledge Nation? Don't you believe it, mate! Hey Bruce, warm up the garbo
lorry ... we're heading out now!


cheers
rickw

P.S. Compare Ruddock's remarks and the Libs policies to Canada's approach to
the skill (and baby) shortage. Canada is now actively courting skilled
immigrants to fuel an ever growing skilled workforce, since there is (a) a 
definite braindrain to the USA because of the almighty greenback, and (b) a
distinct shortfall in the citizenry replacing themselves in the natural way.
And you know, I've never heard of "refugee prisons" or even "detention centres"
in Canada. Heaven forbid, I believe they actually unleash these woebegones on
the local community!




-- 
_________________________________
Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services

linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Tue Sep  3 21:30:11 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:30:11 +1000
Subject: [LINK] eSuds: Online IBM Washing Machine
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020903225851.1665A-100000@atlantic>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020904072925.020e4ca0@pop.primenet.com>

At 11:22 PM 3/09/02 +1000, you wrote:
>Students can log onto a Web page to see if
>   there are free machines and receive an e-mail or page when
>   the load is finished.

Reminds me of the old days when the coke machines were all programmed for 
the programmers to find out the supply status of Jolt!  Or is that an urban 
legend?


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Tue Sep  3 21:42:20 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:42:20 +1000
Subject: [LINK] ACS policy?
In-Reply-To: <3D74BD62.B21FBF2@praxis.com.au>
References: <200209030900.g8390HS2033714@relay1.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020904073211.020e3820@pop.primenet.com>

At 11:47 PM 3/09/02 +1000, Rick Welykochy wrote:
>And backed up by the sentiments of one (Hon) Sr. Ruddock who stated this
>evening on an SBS program looking at the asylum seekers something to effect
>that those people seeking refuge in Australia are taking jobs that Aussies
>should be doing. Jobs like: fruit picking, garbage collection, manual labour,
>road repairs, etc.etc.etc. Strangely, none of these refugees have any 'skills'
>needed by this country.

He has to be listening to his US brothers from the southern border 
states.  Everyone remember where ol' Dubbya is from?  Right!  Texas!!  And 
where did the term 'wet back' originate?  Right 
again!  Texas!!!  ['Illegals' coming across the Rio Grande River] Of 
course, people smuggling across the southwest has been going on for eons, 
with often dire consequences of people dying as they are let out in deserts 
miles from civilisation and perishing.  The smugglers are called 
'coyotes'.  Boat people generally arrive in Florida from the Caribbean 
Islands, e.g. Cuba.

In the late 80s/90s there was a change to some act, immigration?, that 
required any employer to check right to work status by completing what 
is/was? called an I9 form.  The person applying, either at interview or it 
may have been at hiring stage, had to complete a form and provide proof of 
identity that indicated they were a citizen or proper resident with the 
right to work in the US.  Big fines for those who hired 'illegals'.  This 
was a scandal that caught a lot of pollies when they were hiring 'illegals' 
as cheap nannies and house keepers, particularly those in NY and 
California.  Some had to resign over it -- after all, they broke the law!!!

The bit about fruit picking, etc. is quite evident in the US.  As here, the 
migrating work force that follows the crops is a routine thing there.  I 
don't recall a 'back packer' group that did this, unlike here in 
Australia.  Not sure of why the difference on that.  I may just not have 
been aware of it.  But the bit about taking away American jobs of picking 
fruit and doing menial labour has always been a catch cry of the immigrant 
bashers.  The truth of the matter that counters that [at least as close as 
one can get to any truth on this issue] is that the fruit wouldn't get 
picked and it would rot on the trees without this migrating 'illegal' work 
force.  So the farmers take their chances.

It's a sad world sometimes, isn't it?

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Tue Sep  3 21:12:47 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 07:12:47 +1000
Subject: [LINK] ACS policy?
In-Reply-To: <200209030900.g8390HS2033714@relay1.melbpc.org.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020904070612.009d9610@pop.primenet.com>

At 06:59 PM 3/09/02 +1000, Stephen Loosley wrote:

>The attitude of industry groups such as the Australian Computer Society,
>of which Roach is a fellow, and which believe immigration should stall during
>the IT recession, smacks of old-fashioned protectionism, Roach says

It is an interesting situation.  For the longest time, we couldn't get 
skilled staff. Now there is an abundance.  Which condition is more likely 
to be longer lasting?  What is the real cycle in this particular field?

The other part of the debate must be the issue of global movement of human 
'capital' [I'm not a fan of labeling people as capital, but that's the 
current jargon - apologies].  Moving raw materials as in mined or grown 
resources is good, if you have them to sell/exchange.  But for some reason 
that is probably more emotional than rational, [why else would a MINISTER 
lie about attempted murder of children?] it's not ok for people to move 
their own skills around the world.  If skilled people want to come here, 
why not let them?  Competition is supposed to be a good thing, isn't 
it?  There sure are a lot of people who are not cutting it that should find 
another line of work.  Why should ICT be a protected group?

Jan
[speaking as an immigrant consultant who will face a whole lot more 
competition herself as people set up their own consultancies when they 
can't get a permanent spot - that's life]


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep  3 21:36:06 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 07:36:06 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] eSuds: Online IBM Washing Machine
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBA6@EXCHANGE_AU>

Just a further development of IBM's patented toilet reservation
system...five dollars that there's a patent on this one as well.

RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Chia [mailto:rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU]
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 23:23
> To: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: [LINK] eSuds: Online IBM Washing Machine
> 
> 
> 
>   
> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/08/30/offbeat.smart.dorm.la
> undry.ap/
> 
>   IBM unveils 'smart' laundry for dorms
>   August 30, 2002 Posted: 10:44 PM EDT (0244 GMT)
> 
>   Students can log onto a Web page to see if
>   there are free machines and receive an e-mail or page when
>   the load is finished.
> 
> 
> No doubt it will use the SOAP protocol and the WSDL (Washing Service
> Dormitory Laundry) specification.
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep  3 22:13:23 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:13:23 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Higher education grapples with online learning venture
	s
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBAD@EXCHANGE_AU>

 Richard C, you've 
> taught me to 
> be very skeptical of media reports....

Tomorrow the world ... (evil laugh)

I think in all Internet activities, we need to distinguish between:
1) the feasability of an application; and
2) the viability of a get-rich-quick operator; and
3) the cynicism and gullibility of business managers who buy into faked demo
products.

1) Online learning is a feasible application.

2) Many online learning >ventures< (by which I mean "companies set up to
exploit the new market on behalf of VCs) were get-rich-quick scams. They had
no particular expertise either in teaching nor in software. Slap some
content into a database, create a searchable index and a fancy UI, and
whoopee we have a product. 

They excited media interest because a certain proportion of the VC money is
devoted to exciting media interest (VC requirements include a marketing and
promotional plan). And because, at least in the dotcom days, VCs kept some
US tech media as pets - "I can't talk numbers because they go IPO in
November, but I'm very optimistic, this is off-the-record you understand..."

They're now frequently listed on f***edcompany.com.

3) Business managers - including in universities - went along with the
excitement because they thought "Well, if I've got Jan Whitaker's content
online, I don't need Jan Whitaker any more". Always a thin premise and a
fake promise.

Richard Chirgwin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jan Whitaker [mailto:jwhit@primenet.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 15:38
> To: Tony Barry
> Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Higher education grapples with online learning
> ventures
> 
> 
> At 12:04 PM 3/09/02 +1000, Tony Barry wrote:
> >  Matthew Pittinsky, chairman of
> >Blackboard, said that for every failed venture there are five that
> >succeed. Adam Newman of Eduventures said that the industry has seen a
> >"retrenchment" that focuses online initiatives where they 
> can succeed,
> >such as in supplements to traditional classes.
> 
> 
> puh-leeze!  The point in the story was "for profit" ventures failing.
> 
> >setbacks and difficulties have kept for-profit, online
> >higher education spin-offs from realizing success.
> 
> There is a LOT of online education going on just fine, thank you very 
> much.  What I've never understood is why institutions thought 
> people would 
> pay with a profit margin as part of the charge?  Makes no sense, 
> particularly in the US where non-campus programs are so 
> pervasive, face to 
> face or otherwise.  The only ones who got caught are those 
> who thought they 
> had something new, or were being sold a bill of goods by 
> licensed software 
> vendors like Blackboard [quoted above].
> 
> I had a contrarian view to Steve Talbott a few months ago on 
> a similar 
> stance of the 'death of online education'.  Richard C, you've 
> taught be to 
> be very skeptical of media reports....
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> JLWhitaker Associates
> Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
> jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm
> 
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Tue Sep  3 23:15:18 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 09:15:18 +1000
Subject: [LINK] The case of the phantom jobs
Message-ID: <3D754286.F28D330@austarmetro.com.au>

The case of the phantom jobs
Caitlin Fitzsimmons, Analysis
SEPTEMBER 03, 2002  
The Australian
http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5022222%5E15302%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html
 
AUSTRALIA'S IT professionals are hurting, and recent announcements from
Indian technology giant Infosys and the Victorian government won't help
much.

The hi-tech jobs crisis is acute. Unemployment in the sector trebled from
August 1998 to August 2001 and the pool of unemployed computer
professionals has ballooned to more than 8000. The Victorian Government has
welcomed the decision of Infosys to locate a software development centre in
Melbourne, saying it would create "100 new jobs" for software engineers.
Unfortunately, it won't. At least 60 of the 100 staff will come from India.

...

For too long, the Federal Government has swallowed industry propaganda
about an IT skills shortage of between 30,000 and 50,000 people. It is
questionable that the skills shortage ever existed, and even its proponents
now acknowledge the figure was always "grossly inflated".

Yet the Government took the bait and the Australian Computer Society - the
body meant to represent the interests of IT professionals - did not
challenge it.

...

-- 
If work were good for you, the rich would leave none for the poor.
--Haitian Proverb

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Tue Sep  3 23:24:35 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 09:24:35 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Venezuela eliminates govt. software piracy
Message-ID: <3D7544B3.4C1E3EE1@austarmetro.com.au>

Venezuela eliminates govt. software piracy
By Thomas C Greene in Washington
Posted: 03/09/2002 at 11:52 GMT
The Register
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/26928.html

Venezuela has announced an official policy of preferring open source
software products to proprietary ones in the public sector, according to an
article by Linux Today's Brian Proffit
<http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-08-30-011-26-NW-LL-PB>.

Apparently, from now on all software developed for the government must be
licensed under the GPL. Even software used for Internet access to
e-government must run GPL'd apps on a GPL'd operating system. For new
purchases, free software is to be preferred to proprietaty wherever
practical.

Reasons for the switch include a desire to promote the local development
community rather than enriching those in bondage to foreign software
behemoths, and of course assisting in the good work of stamping out
unlicensed software from government bureaux.

Piracy is of course a major concern of Microsoft, which for years turned a
blind eye to the pestilence so long as world + dog was getting itself
nicely addicted to their wares. Now, with nearly every government and
business hopelessly dependent on their products, the company feels it's
safe to tighten the screws and send in the BSA Taliban to kick doors and
perform audits, leaving behind huge bills for licensing oversights.

No one needs this sort of treatment. But as Venezuela has just come to
realize, the best way to appease Microsoft -- indeed, to assist them in
this noble crusade -- is to replace their products with free ones.

Works for me.

-- 
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and  astonish the rest.
-- Mark Twain

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep  4 00:04:51 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:04:51 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] The case of the phantom jobs
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBAE@EXCHANGE_AU>

Question:
If the skills shortage was hyped, can we really trust our weight to every
tale of woe? Is an oversupply number of 8000 more trustworthy than 2001's
undersupply of 30,000?

A lot of the undersupply was as ephemeral as the dotcom boom which created
it. A dotcom needed to convince investors that it was moving, even when it
had neither a product nor a business plan to move with ... "ahh, but we have
60 developers, just keep shovelling money in and something will come out the
chute RSN."

Without disparaging any individual in the pool of unemployed developers, be
it 500 or 50,000, is it also feasible that at least some of the
now-unemployed developers are people who 'skilled up' to fill dotcom spots,
only to find that their skills have no real value in a business environment?
"I think we have enough people able to write Web pages using MS Front Page,
thank you."

PS: who was most guilty of inflating the skill shortage figures? The
headhunters. Surprise surprise...

Richard Chirgwin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernard Robertson-Dunn [mailto:brd@austarmetro.com.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2002 09:15
> To: Link
> Subject: [LINK] The case of the phantom jobs
> 
> 
> The case of the phantom jobs
> Caitlin Fitzsimmons, Analysis
> SEPTEMBER 03, 2002  
> The Australian
> http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5022222%5E1530
> 2%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html
>  
> AUSTRALIA'S IT professionals are hurting, and recent 
> announcements from
> Indian technology giant Infosys and the Victorian government 
> won't help
> much.
> 
> The hi-tech jobs crisis is acute. Unemployment in the sector 
> trebled from
> August 1998 to August 2001 and the pool of unemployed computer
> professionals has ballooned to more than 8000. The Victorian 
> Government has
> welcomed the decision of Infosys to locate a software 
> development centre in
> Melbourne, saying it would create "100 new jobs" for software 
> engineers.
> Unfortunately, it won't. At least 60 of the 100 staff will 
> come from India.
> 
> ...
> 
> For too long, the Federal Government has swallowed industry propaganda
> about an IT skills shortage of between 30,000 and 50,000 people. It is
> questionable that the skills shortage ever existed, and even 
> its proponents
> now acknowledge the figure was always "grossly inflated".
> 
> Yet the Government took the bait and the Australian Computer 
> Society - the
> body meant to represent the interests of IT professionals - did not
> challenge it.
> 
> ...
> 
> -- 
> If work were good for you, the rich would leave none for the poor.
> --Haitian Proverb
> 
> Regards
> brd
> 
> Bernard Robertson-Dunn
> Canberra Australia
> brd@austarmetro.com.au
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au  Wed Sep  4 01:07:46 2002
From: jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:07:46 +1000
Subject: [LINK] IE Doesn't Lock Down
Message-ID: <OF6B877E31.2E646909-ONCA256C2A.0005EEB4@dsd.vic.gov.au>

Extract from  "Window Manager" from InfoWorld.com, Monday, September 2,
2002

IE DOESN'T LOCK DOWN

Posted August 30, 2002 01:01 PM  Pacific Time


WE'VE SPENT years teaching users that their passwords
and credit card numbers are secure on the Web as long
as a little lock icon appears in the status bar of
their browser windows.

Now it turns out that this isn't true. Microsoft
Internet Explorer Versions 5.0 (released in 1999),
5.5, and today's 6.0 don't fully support SSL,
according to Mike Benham, a white-hat security expert.
SSL is the security technology that the lock icon
visually assures us is enabled.

Benham posted an explanation last month on Bugtraq, a
security forum. Numerous other professionals have
confirmed the hole. Please read
http://online.securityfocus.com/archive/1/286895/2002-08-08/2002-08-14/1

The issue lies with SSL certificates. These are
assigned to e-commerce Web sites by "certificate
authorities" such as VeriSign, Thawte, and several
other companies. When used properly, these digitally
signed certificates verify that your browser is
communicating with a known Web site and that no one
else can intercept and read your data.

The recipient of a certificate, however, can generate
an "intermediate" certificate labeled Amazon.com,
PayPal.com, or any other name. Benham says the
Netscape and Mozilla browsers correctly check that the
entire "chain" of certificates is valid but,
amazingly, IE does not.

This permits a "man-in-the-middle" attack. An
unscrupulous worker at an ISP, for example, could
watch IE users' credit card numbers and passwords flow
by, then use them or sell them.

Steve Fallin, director of the rapid response team for
WatchGuard Technologies ( http://www.watchguard.com ),
says this is "a pretty fundamental cryptographic
flaw." He added, "If it's confirmed that it's been a
flaw for three years, then it's pretty serious."

David Graves, engineering manager of Descan.net,
explains that the fault lies with Windows itself,
which Netscape and others don't draw upon for SSL
services. "A unique fix for each Windows version will
need to be developed," he says.

Steve Lipman, Microsoft's director of security
assurance, confirmed in an interview that the company
is developing patches for all supported versions of
Windows, back to Windows 98.

Microsoft's response is at
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/news/IARWSV.asp
. The notice says exploiting the flaw would be
"difficult." But Benham replies that such attacks are
simple and well known. "If they were so difficult," he
points out, "nobody would need SSL to begin with."

It's true that your credit card is at risk every time
you give it to a waiter, and there's a $50 fraud
limit. But companies that rely on SSL for more than
ordering pizza have real cause for alarm.

Starting immediately, all e-commerce sites have a duty
to warn vulnerable IE users to switch to another
browser for sensitive transactions. That may be
inconvenient, but it eliminates the danger.

Send tips to Contributing Editor Brian Livingston at
brian@brianlivingston.com. Get Window Manager and his
E-Business Secrets ezine free at
http://www.iwsubscribe.com/newsletters.



Regards

Jeff Evans
Online Services Manager, Small Business Online
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Victoria, Australia

http://www.businessaccess.vic.gov.au
http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au
http://www.export.vic.gov.au




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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep  4 01:51:42 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:51:42 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] We're not alone in our broadband woes...
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBB1@EXCHANGE_AU>

http://www.eircomtribunal.com/index.html

...a site which takes the mickey out of Ireland's broadband performance ...

I've seen all sorts of stuff in the last couple of weeks ... America is
unhappy with its broadband (insufficient competition), Ireland, the UK ...
probably the only country in the world that's happy with broadband is South
Korea. So how much did its government kick in?

Richard Chirgwin
CommsWorld
Informa Australia
Level 2, 120 Sussex Street  Sydney 2000
9080 4456

* This is an Email from the Informa Group. Its contents are confidential to
the intended recipient at the Email address to which it has been addressed.
It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than this addressee, nor
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Group on +61 2 9080 4480 quoting the name of the sender and the addressee,
then delete it from your system. Please note that neither The Informa Group
nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your
responsibility to scan attachments (if any)


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From grove@zeta.org.au  Wed Sep  4 02:20:23 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:20:23 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] The case of the phantom jobs
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBAE@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209041210330.15532-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:

> PS: who was most guilty of inflating the skill shortage figures? The
> headhunters. Surprise surprise...

I have been dealing with a lot of headhunters recently as I am still looking for a
new job.

My problem, as I found with the senior UNIX admin from Excite is that we
are both asking a lot more than the market can bear.   He only just got a new job
after nearly a year and took a bit of paycut in the process - at least he is walking
distance to the site so he sees it as a good compromise.

I can get lots of jobs in a "junior" capacity where they want someone to be able to
work with screaming money managers and know 6 different OS's and be able to
be a perfect barrista on the old Krupps out the back but as soon as I quote
my asking price, the roles disappear.  I have been told not to back down on my salary
rate though as I am labeled as "senior".  It would seem that the jobs are there
but only if you are prepared to give up a lot to get one.  I have been getting 2-3 calls
from agents a week and this is only through one posting on "jobnet".

I think something will come along eventually, but I may need to wait a little while.
As for the "Supercomputing Corridor" that is supposedly going to bring lots of
IT roles to the outer west of Sydney,  I have been scanning everywhere in the local
papers and in any other appropriate forum and have found exactly one IT role in the
outer west that was to do with Microsoft Exchange support over tha past 6 months.......


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep  4 02:29:06 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:29:06 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Two views of one story
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBB4@EXCHANGE_AU>

I love syndication (not):
http://www.abc.net.au/news/scitech/default.htm
Child tracking devices in demand
A British scientist says he has been inundated with requests by panicked
parents to implant a tracking microchip into their children.
...and so on. 

The view from The Register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/26908.html
Some samples...
"it is quite clear that some of the people involved - possibly the reporter,
possibly the reporter and the Duval family - have somehow managed to get
themselves seriously misled about the capabilities of the technology. "

"This is a publicity stunt well up to the usual mark, with the added extra
of being in the worst possible taste. It marks the point where Captain
Cyborg ceased to be comical, and started to look like something far worse."

"So it's complete hokum, and under the circumstances pernicious. The Holly
and Jessica case has generated much concern, and some hysteria in the UK,
and stories such as the Mirror's serve only to fuel that hysteria by
deluding parents into thinking that technology can somehow protect their
children."

Since all three major dailies have Link members, I will hope not to see this
crap story turn up on the SMH, the Oz or the Fin...

I only hope that someone from the ABC is also getting this...

RC
----------
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From me@karmanaut.com  Wed Sep  4 02:58:34 2002
From: me@karmanaut.com (Viveka)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:58:34 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Two views of one story
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBB4@EXCHANGE_AU>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBB4@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <a05111703b99b26169608@[144.132.248.89]>

At 12:29 pm +1000 4/9/02, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
>Since all three major dailies have Link members, I will hope not to see this
>crap story turn up on the SMH, the Oz or the Fin...

It's going out on Radio National and 702 at this moment... long 
quotes from Captain Cyborg, no questioning of his credibility in the 
field or the technical possibility of the claim. They're interviewing 
people critical of the idea, but no-one pointing out that it's all 
bollocks in the first place.

The ABC have extended the myth further - the announcer introduced the 
program with "A professor in Britain *has implanted* an 
eleven-year-old girl...".

The media need a "Kevin Warwick" flag, like the alerts that customs 
officers get for certain people...

V.
-- 
Viveka Weiley, Karmanaut.
{ http://www.karmanaut.com | http://www.planet-earth.org
    http://www.MacWeb3D.org | http://sydney.siggraph.org.au }
Hypermedia, virtual worlds, human interface, truth, beauty.
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From mikal@stillhq.com  Wed Sep  4 03:45:13 2002
From: mikal@stillhq.com (Michael Still)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 13:45:13 +1000
Subject: [LINK] AUUG 2002
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209041344110.2066-100000@localhost.localdomain>


Hey all,

I just thought I would mention in case people are interested that AUUG
2002, the annual conference of the Australian Unix User's Group is
currently on in Melbourne.

Checkout http://www.auug.org.au for details and embarrassing web cam
shots...

Cheers,
Mikal

-- 

Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com)     UMT+10hrs

----------
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From at@ah.net  Wed Sep  4 04:00:32 2002
From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 14:00:32 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Recall: PBL Full Year Results - 2002
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020904135959.0513bec0@pop>

Oh this just gets weirder by the minute.   Bit late now huh!


>From: "Paton, Maggie" <mpaton@pbl.com.au>
>Subject: Recall: PBL Full Year Results - 2002
>Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:33:37 +1000
>
>Paton, Maggie would like to recall the message, "PBL Full Year Results -
>2002".
>
>
>**********************************************************************
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
>the system manager.
>
>This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
>MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>**********************************************************************

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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Wed Sep  4 03:29:40 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 13:29:40 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Two views of one story
In-Reply-To: <a05111703b99b26169608@[144.132.248.89]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209041329230.1257-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

Why not throw it at the ABC's Media Watch


On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Viveka wrote:

> At 12:29 pm +1000 4/9/02, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> >Since all three major dailies have Link members, I will hope not to see this
> >crap story turn up on the SMH, the Oz or the Fin...
>
> It's going out on Radio National and 702 at this moment... long
> quotes from Captain Cyborg, no questioning of his credibility in the
> field or the technical possibility of the claim. They're interviewing
> people critical of the idea, but no-one pointing out that it's all
> bollocks in the first place.
>
> The ABC have extended the myth further - the announcer introduced the
> program with "A professor in Britain *has implanted* an
> eleven-year-old girl...".
>
> The media need a "Kevin Warwick" flag, like the alerts that customs
> officers get for certain people...
>
> V.
>

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep  4 04:25:58 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:25:58 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Two views of one story
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBC0@EXCHANGE_AU>

Actually, Howard, I have done such things in the past...Link is an
indulgence, at least one isn't shouting into silence!
RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Lowndes [mailto:lannet@lannet.com.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2002 13:30
> To: Viveka
> Cc: 'link@www.anu.edu.au'
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Two views of one story
> 
> 
> Why not throw it at the ABC's Media Watch
> 
> 
> On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Viveka wrote:
> 
> > At 12:29 pm +1000 4/9/02, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> > >Since all three major dailies have Link members, I will 
> hope not to see this
> > >crap story turn up on the SMH, the Oz or the Fin...
> >
> > It's going out on Radio National and 702 at this moment... long
> > quotes from Captain Cyborg, no questioning of his credibility in the
> > field or the technical possibility of the claim. They're 
> interviewing
> > people critical of the idea, but no-one pointing out that it's all
> > bollocks in the first place.
> >
> > The ABC have extended the myth further - the announcer 
> introduced the
> > program with "A professor in Britain *has implanted* an
> > eleven-year-old girl...".
> >
> > The media need a "Kevin Warwick" flag, like the alerts that customs
> > officers get for certain people...
> >
> > V.
> >
> 
> -- 
> Howard.
> LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
> Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
> "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
>  Get rid of the Australian states.
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Wed Sep  4 06:01:28 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:01:28 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Two views of one story
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBC0@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209041600470.1257-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:

> Actually, Howard, I have done such things in the past...Link is an
> indulgence, at least one isn't shouting into silence!

The story is on the wire.  It was in my local rag this morning, having
just picked it up.

> RC
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Howard Lowndes [mailto:lannet@lannet.com.au]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2002 13:30
> > To: Viveka
> > Cc: 'link@www.anu.edu.au'
> > Subject: Re: [LINK] Two views of one story
> >
> >
> > Why not throw it at the ABC's Media Watch
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Viveka wrote:
> >
> > > At 12:29 pm +1000 4/9/02, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> > > >Since all three major dailies have Link members, I will
> > hope not to see this
> > > >crap story turn up on the SMH, the Oz or the Fin...
> > >
> > > It's going out on Radio National and 702 at this moment... long
> > > quotes from Captain Cyborg, no questioning of his credibility in the
> > > field or the technical possibility of the claim. They're
> > interviewing
> > > people critical of the idea, but no-one pointing out that it's all
> > > bollocks in the first place.
> > >
> > > The ABC have extended the myth further - the announcer
> > introduced the
> > > program with "A professor in Britain *has implanted* an
> > > eleven-year-old girl...".
> > >
> > > The media need a "Kevin Warwick" flag, like the alerts that customs
> > > officers get for certain people...
> > >
> > > V.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Howard.
> > LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
> > Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
> > "Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
> >  Get rid of the Australian states.
> >
> > ----------
> > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> >
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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From rick@praxis.com.au  Wed Sep  4 07:18:47 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 17:18:47 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Online Gaming in Greece Throws the Baby Out with the Bathwater
Message-ID: <3D75B3D7.43D31BDB@praxis.com.au>

This is hard to believe:

<http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html>

	In Greece, playing a shoot-'em-up video game could land you in jail. 

	The Greek government has banned all electronic games across the country, including those that run
	on home computers, on Game Boy-style portable consoles, and on mobile phones. Thousands of
	tourists in Greece are unknowingly facing heavy fines or long terms in prison for owning mobile
	phones or portable video games. 

	...

	The Greek government introduced the law in an attempt to prevent illegal gambling. According to a
	report in the Greek newspaper Kathimerini, Greek police will be responsible for catching offenders,
	who will face fines of 5,000 to 75,000 euros (about $4,980 to $74,650) and imprisonment of one to 12
	months. "The blanket ban was decided in February after the government admitted it was incapable of
	distinguishing innocuous video games from illegal gambling machines," the report said



cheers
rickw


-- 
_________________________________
Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services

linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
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From grove@zeta.org.au  Wed Sep  4 10:42:43 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 20:42:43 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Online Gaming in Greece Throws the Baby Out with the
 Bathwater
In-Reply-To: <3D75B3D7.43D31BDB@praxis.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209042041460.15840-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote:

> This is hard to believe:
>
> <http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html>
>
> 	In Greece, playing a shoot-'em-up video game could land you in jail.


Greece, the same country that tried to ban "Sea Monkeys".


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

----------
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From rick@praxis.com.au  Wed Sep  4 13:08:02 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 23:08:02 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Online Gaming in Greece Throws the Baby Out with theBathwater
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209042041460.15840-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
Message-ID: <3D7605B2.63BCFE33@praxis.com.au>

Rachel Polanskis wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote:
> 
> > This is hard to believe:
> >
> > <http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html>
> >
> >       In Greece, playing a shoot-'em-up video game could land you in jail.
> 
> Greece, the same country that tried to ban "Sea Monkeys".

They tried to ban those cut little brine shrimp swimming in a fantasy
tank environment that was never really realised by the time you opened
up the 50c packet to find ... eggs ?


cheers
rickw


-- 
_________________________________
Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services

linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
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From rick@praxis.com.au  Wed Sep  4 15:32:23 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 01:32:23 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Thursday humour
Message-ID: <3D762787.5D2F4CC4@praxis.com.au>

<what?>it doesn't have anything to do with Australia's Internet?</what?>

Cartoonist extraordinaire: <http://www.claybennett.com/pages/business.html>

cheers
rickw



-- 
_________________________________
Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services

linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Wed Sep  4 20:18:40 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 06:18:40 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Online Gaming in Greece Throws the Baby Out with
  the Bathwater
In-Reply-To: <3D75B3D7.43D31BDB@praxis.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020905061804.0227d800@pop.primenet.com>

At 05:18 PM 4/09/02 +1000, Rick Welykochy wrote:
>  "The blanket ban was decided in February after the government admitted 
> it was incapable of
>         distinguishing innocuous video games from illegal gambling 
> machines," the report said

Doesn't look like a pinball machine, therefore we can't distinguish if 
these electronic gizmos may be used for the same thing!  Bizarre!


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Wed Sep  4 20:16:50 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 06:16:50 +1000
Subject: Fwd: Re: [LINK] eSuds: Online IBM Washing Machine
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020905061551.02284560@pop.primenet.com>

 From a linker who I guess wished to remain anonymous or had some other 
reason for not copying link:

>UWA over in Perth had a coke machine that was setup to show the
>quantities of drinks, along with a program that would track your
>outstanding credits, and allow you to purchase drinks, from any
>terminal.  Apparently this all caused some fuss with the Coke people,
>who didn't like their machines being tampered with.
>
>I saw it and used it, I can verify it was no urban legend ;)

I think maybe one of the first ones in the USA was MIT.

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From tom.worthington@tomw.net.au  Wed Sep  4 23:15:25 2002
From: tom.worthington@tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 09:15:25 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Broadband technology for Western Australia
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DB81@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020904111623.024865f0@tomw.net.au>

At 10:45  3/09/02, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
>Tom - it's a good thing you sent this, because it hasn't yet made it onto 
>the SWDC's Website...

Yes, gone are the days when you could just copy something to the corporate 
web site. Now organisations have lots of (needed) approval procedures. When 
working as a consultant I obtain permission from the client's senor 
executive to put a draft of material on my own site to bypass their 
bureaucracy.

On the topic of IT industry in regional Australia, you might not think much 
would be happening IT-wise in a place next to Antarctica, but all sorts of 
interesting people and organisations pop up. As an example when doing a 
report for the Great Southern Region of Western Australia (next to the 
South West Region) I found they had a University of Western Australia 
campus with wireless data and remote education (including poetry reading by 
video conference), as well as a factory making computer controlled plasma 
cutting machines for export around the world <http://www.tomw.net.au/gsr>.

By coincidence the person now responsible for the network at UWA is Alex 
Reid, who's computer centre I gate crashed at Oxford University in 1994: 
http://www.tomw.net.au/nt/tourist.html#oxford



Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150
Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309
http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617
Visiting Fellow, Computer Science, Australian National University
Publications Director & Past President, Australian Computer Society

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep  4 23:28:41 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:28:41 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Broadband technology for Western Australia
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBCB@EXCHANGE_AU>

Good point about approval procedures ... but why would the approval
procedure for the advertisement be easier/quicker/not transferable to the
Website? ... that would suggest someone still views the Web as somehow
"different" from publication.

RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Worthington [mailto:tom.worthington@tomw.net.au]
> Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2002 09:15
> To: Chirgwin, Richard; link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: RE: [LINK] Broadband technology for Western Australia
> Importance: Low
> 
> 
> At 10:45  3/09/02, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> >Tom - it's a good thing you sent this, because it hasn't yet 
> made it onto 
> >the SWDC's Website...
> 
> Yes, gone are the days when you could just copy something to 
> the corporate 
> web site. Now organisations have lots of (needed) approval 
> procedures. When 
> working as a consultant I obtain permission from the client's senor 
> executive to put a draft of material on my own site to bypass their 
> bureaucracy.
> 
> On the topic of IT industry in regional Australia, you might 
> not think much 
> would be happening IT-wise in a place next to Antarctica, but 
> all sorts of 
> interesting people and organisations pop up. As an example 
> when doing a 
> report for the Great Southern Region of Western Australia 
> (next to the 
> South West Region) I found they had a University of Western Australia 
> campus with wireless data and remote education (including 
> poetry reading by 
> video conference), as well as a factory making computer 
> controlled plasma 
> cutting machines for export around the world 
> <http://www.tomw.net.au/gsr>.
> 
> By coincidence the person now responsible for the network at 
> UWA is Alex 
> Reid, who's computer centre I gate crashed at Oxford 
> University in 1994: 
> http://www.tomw.net.au/nt/tourist.html#oxford
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150
> Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309
> http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617
> Visiting Fellow, Computer Science, Australian National University
> Publications Director & Past President, Australian Computer Society
> 
----------
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From mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au  Thu Sep  5 02:39:38 2002
From: mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Mark Tearle)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:39:38 +0800 (WST)
Subject: Fwd: Re: [LINK] eSuds: Online IBM Washing Machine
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020905061551.02284560@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0209051037090.20776-100000@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote:

> Subject: Fwd: Re: [LINK] eSuds: Online IBM Washing Machine
>
>  From a linker who I guess wished to remain anonymous or had some other
> reason for not copying link:
>
> >UWA over in Perth had a coke machine that was setup to show the
> >quantities of drinks, along with a program that would track your
> >outstanding credits, and allow you to purchase drinks, from any
> >terminal.  Apparently this all caused some fuss with the Coke people,
> >who didn't like their machines being tampered with.
> >
> >I saw it and used it, I can verify it was no urban legend ;)
>
> I think maybe one of the first ones in the USA was MIT.
>
> Jan

It's still working;
	http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/drink/

UCC also has a snack machine that they are hoping to do the same kind
of conversion to at some point.

Yours
Mark
PS.  [ObPlug] See it for yourself!  Come to linux.conf.au 2003
-- 
Mark Tearle - mark@tearle.com "Happiness is not a lifestyle, happiness is"
                                  - greeting card
linux.conf.au 2003         - The Australian Linux Technical Conference
http://conf.linux.org.au/    22nd - 25th January 2003 in Perth


----------
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From tom.worthington@tomw.net.au  Thu Sep  5 05:11:47 2002
From: tom.worthington@tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 15:11:47 +1000
Subject: [LINK] WorldCom Charges Cause Panic
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020905144400.02be1e50@tomw.net.au>

WorldCom has sent a message to web host customers 
<<https://vemail.server-secure.com/vision6/webcentral/vemail/logLink.php?id=343:175:124&link=http://www1.worldcom.com/au/products/>http://www1.worldcom.com/au/products/  
 > to say that they will start charging for excess bandwidth as of October:

>Excess Bandwidth Charges Notification... We trust you have been enjoying 
>your WorldCom webhosting service to date. A recent review of your service 
>has revealed an oversight on our part in relation to the billing of your 
>service. As you may be aware, the website you have purchased has a certain 
>amount of bandwidth volume in megabytes (MB) included within the monthly 
>charges you are currently paying. Please refer to the list below.  When 
>you exceed the allowance that applies to your website, the lower amount of 
>either inbound data or outbound data transferred is meant to be charged at 
>a fixed rate of ...

I have been a very happy WebCentral customer for years and I hadn't 
realised I was a WorldCom customer. I was even prepared to pay when they 
previously forgot to bill for a year's service.

When I checked the web statistics (as per WorldComs' instructions) I found 
my company web site <http://www.tomw.net.au/> was serving an average of 
19807.88 hits or 216143.52 Kilobytes, a week. This would cost about $30 a 
week in excess fees, a considerable amount for a small one-person 
consulting company, and I started to panic.

After having lunch and calming down, I decided to read the WorldCom 
announcement again. It says: "When you exceed the allowance that applies to 
your website, the lower amount of either inbound data or outbound data 
transferred is meant to be charged at a fixed rate ...". As there would be 
very little incoming data, compared to web pages served, this shouldn't 
result in an excess charge. A recorded message on the WorldCom enquiry line 
says they are sending out a clarification which should hopefully remove the 
panic.

ps: While panicking I checked who was currently reading my web site and 
found 27 active sessions. However, 21 of these were Google crawlers 
(crawl1.googlebot.com, crawl2.googlebot.com ... ) indexing the site, which 
seems a bit excessive.

pps: A few minutes later I checked again and there are now 53 active 
sessions, most of which are Google crawlers. Is this normal?



Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150
Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309
http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617

----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Thu Sep  5 06:28:47 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:28:47 +1000
Subject: [LINK] WorldCom Charges Cause Panic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020905144400.02be1e50@tomw.net.au>; from tom.worthington@tomw.net.au on Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 03:11:47PM +1000
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020905144400.02be1e50@tomw.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020905162847.B854@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Tom Worthington wrote:
> ps: While panicking I checked who was currently reading my web site and 
> found 27 active sessions. However, 21 of these were Google crawlers 
> (crawl1.googlebot.com, crawl2.googlebot.com ... ) indexing the site, which 
> seems a bit excessive.
> 
> pps: A few minutes later I checked again and there are now 53 active 
> sessions, most of which are Google crawlers. Is this normal?
 
Googlebot pulls more than 1000 pages a day off dannyreviews.com --
it's fetching pages more than once a day on average.  Last month
there was a day when it fetched over 10 000 pages in a day, but I
report that and they told me that was an error that had been fixed...

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------
----------
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Thu Sep  5 06:54:51 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:54:51 +1000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <a05100301b99caf99b0b1@[10.0.1.202]>

Link

Another in the ongoing saga of print and web publishing not being 
seen as the same? This time being pushed by the publisher though.

Tony

Brothel website hearing
IMAGES of naked women on a Melbourne brothel's website were
not advertising, a court has heard.
http://email.ni.com.au/Click?q=3e-F5vnIizjmoC9x55_qGQZS3dR
-- 
--
phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Thu Sep  5 07:15:16 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:15:16 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Content controversy
Message-ID: <a05100302b99cb4fcf4af@[10.0.1.202]>

Content controversy
It is widely assumed that manage content providers are subject to the 
laws wherever their data is hosted, butwhat happens when when content 
delivery is global?
  <http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?185650 >Read Full Story
-- 
--
phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
----------
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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Thu Sep  5 07:16:11 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:16:11 +1000
Subject: [LINK] New PC models to restrict copying
Message-ID: <a05100303b99cb53301ad@[10.0.1.202]>

New PC models to restrict copying
Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard have released additional details about 
digital entertainment PCs coming for the holidays. But new 
anti-copying technology could hamper sales, say analysts and 
potential buyers.
  <http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?185592>Read Full Story

-- 
--
phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
----------
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From gbayley@ausmac.net  Thu Sep  5 07:30:22 2002
From: gbayley@ausmac.net (Grant Bayley)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:30:22 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] auDA New Names Panel Discussion Paper
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.44.0209051711550.16098-100000@ausmac.net>

Hi all,

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned on link@ and 2600-[list|law]@, but
the auDA New Names Panel Discussion Paper has been online for a couple of
weeks now, and it appears that some responses are flowing in to it.  I'm
personally not sure that all of them directly address the issues that the
paper has brought up, but they're comments nonetheless.

Might I recommend that anyone wishing to have a finger in the pie of
Australian 2LDs not already sitting on the panel have a read of the
discussion paper and get some comments sent into Jo at auDA before Friday
27th September.

The New 2LDs Discussion Paper and the Geographic 2LDs Discussion Paper are
both located here:

	http://www.auda.org.au/policy/panel-newname-2002/

Grant

-------------------------------------------------------
Grant Bayley                         gbayley@ausmac.net
-Admin @ AusMac Archive, Wiretapped.net, 2600 Australia
 www.ausmac.net   www.wiretapped.net   www.2600.org.au
-------------------------------------------------------

----------
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From grove@zeta.org.au  Thu Sep  5 13:46:47 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:46:47 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Online Gaming in Greece Throws the Baby Out with theBathwater
In-Reply-To: <3D7605B2.63BCFE33@praxis.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209052339440.16472-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote:

> Rachel Polanskis wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Rick Welykochy wrote:
> >
> > > This is hard to believe:
> > >
> > > <http://news.com.com/2100-1040-956357.html>
> > >
> > >       In Greece, playing a shoot-'em-up video game could land you in jail.
> >
> > Greece, the same country that tried to ban "Sea Monkeys".
>
> They tried to ban those cut little brine shrimp swimming in a fantasy
> tank environment that was never really realised by the time you opened
> up the 50c packet to find ... eggs ?

The Greeks had an ethical dislilke because they felt it trivialised the
keeping of an animal as a pet.   In Greece, Sea monkeys were marketed as
"little sea souls" and so of course this started a religious controversy.

My experience with sea monkeys was first when I was young and actually had
them come via Japan well before they appeared in Australia.  They actually
gre quite big and bred prolifically and I had finally put them in a huge coffee
jar, which ended up accidentally breaking after about a year.

I tried again last year, and had a little colony but these ones only lived for
about 6 months - they are supposed to be some sort of hardy hybrid but I
found them all dying off after awhile.  I have another generation "in stasis"
sitting on a shelf in the bathroom ready to be rehydrated when the political
and economic climate changes as it would be a shame to get bring them into
the world in it's current state...


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

----------
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From foconno1@bigpond.net.au  Thu Sep  5 17:03:41 2002
From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 03:03:41 +1000
Subject: [LINK] New PC models to restrict copying
In-Reply-To: <a05100303b99cb53301ad@[10.0.1.202]>
References: <a05100303b99cb53301ad@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <p05100301b99d3eaf1c37@[203.51.173.158]>

Mmmm,

And the consensus of opinion seems to be that these models won't 
exactly sell like wild fire.     :)

Regards,

At 5:16 PM +1000 5/9/02, Tony Barry wrote:
>New PC models to restrict copying
>Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard have released additional details about 
>digital entertainment PCs coming for the holidays. But new 
>anti-copying technology could hamper sales, say analysts and 
>potential buyers.
>  <http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?185592>Read Full Story
>
>--
>--
>phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
>mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
>----------
>For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Thu Sep  5 21:24:41 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 07:24:41 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] New PC models to restrict copying
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBF9@EXCHANGE_AU>

Indeed. Let's just run over the business model:
1) PC sales are slowing because lots of people already have a PC.
2) Here's a new PC, not as capable as your old one, but almost as expensive.

Boy, have I got a deal for you...

Richard C

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank O'Connor [mailto:foconno1@bigpond.net.au]
> Sent: Friday, 6 September 2002 03:04
> To: Tony Barry
> Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: Re: [LINK] New PC models to restrict copying
> 
> 
> Mmmm,
> 
> And the consensus of opinion seems to be that these models won't 
> exactly sell like wild fire.     :)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> At 5:16 PM +1000 5/9/02, Tony Barry wrote:
> >New PC models to restrict copying
> >Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard have released additional details about 
> >digital entertainment PCs coming for the holidays. But new 
> >anti-copying technology could hamper sales, say analysts and 
> >potential buyers.
> >  <http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?185592>Read Full Story
> >
> >--
> >--
> >phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
> >mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
> >----------
> >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Thu Sep  5 21:47:48 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 07:47:48 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Another B2B model starts to flake?
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBFC@EXCHANGE_AU>

Linkers,

I notice on the deadpool that the shakeout is beginning in the
infrastructure B2B world:
http://www.infrastructureworld.com/
"Thank you for allowing us to be your choice in researching
infrastructure-related knowledge, news, and 
information. InfrastructureWorld is winding down its business operations."

As I recall, it's only a couple of years since everyone was hyping B2B
portals for the construction business. These portals are now starting to
creep up the tables on fcompany.

What shakes out today in the US can only have six months to live in
Australia...

RC
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Thu Sep  5 21:43:13 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 07:43:13 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Re: 
In-Reply-To: <a05100301b99caf99b0b1@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020906074026.025c8c30@pop.primenet.com>

At 04:54 PM 5/09/02 +1000, Tony Barry wrote:
>Brothel website hearing
>IMAGES of naked women on a Melbourne brothel's website were
>not advertising, a court has heard.
>http://email.ni.com.au/Click?q=3e-F5vnIizjmoC9x55_qGQZS3dR
>--

Terry Lane was talking about this on local ABC radio yesterday.  He was 
viewing it from his position as president of Free Speech Victoria.  The 
debate focused on having similar rules in the e-pub world as the print 
world.  We have limitations to what can appear in newspaper 'ads' for 
brothels.   But then they talked about specifics, like describing what is 
on offer and the prices, the tour of the place, the 'work clothes' of the 
staff and the customers, the Grecian room, etc.  Not enough time for a good 
discussion, but the other point made was that it's legal here, so why not 
deal with it in that regard?

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Thu Sep  5 22:15:02 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 08:15:02 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC03@EXCHANGE_AU>

Oh, no, not again...

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5020510%5E15317%5E%5Enbv%5E1
5306,00.html
>Intel spurns fabrication here
>Simon Hayes
>SEPTEMBER 03, 2002 INTEL boss Craig Barrett has pronounced a death sentence

>on Australia's electronics manufacturing industry, calling for the country
to 
>focus instead of software and product development.
>
>Formally killing off any hope of a local microprocessor manufacturing
facility, Dr 
>Barrett said Australia could not hope to compete against low-wage
countries. 
>The site of the flagged $US6 billion ($11.1 billion) fab plant remains a
mystery 
>after an Asia-Pacific tour that has taken in India, Malaysia, Vietnam and
the 
>Philippines. 

For years, a visit by a high-ranking Intel executive is used to create a
"Silicon Plant for Australia?" story. Then the executive arrives, says no,
and this is the resulting headline. 

There was never any prospect that this visit would be any different: Craig
Barrett wasn't coming here to announce a brand-new chip plant for Australia;
the only thing fabricated was the possibility that he would.

However: between yesterday and today, the electronics manufacturing industry
didn't change simply on the basis of Intel's non-decision about a non-story.
It was small and specialised last week, and will be small and specialised
next week.

[There is even some small and specialised chip fab here, but don't tell
anyone...]

A favourite way to fill space with no discernable effort is the "denial
story". "This might be true" followed by "he denied it". But really, every
couple of years the SAME denial story gets tedious!

Richard C
----------
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From jmorris@intercode.com.au  Thu Sep  5 23:42:38 2002
From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:42:38 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Another B2B model starts to flake?
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DBFC@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209060927420.7899-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au>

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:

> As I recall, it's only a couple of years since everyone was hyping B2B
> portals for the construction business.

Well, how solid is this type of prediction looking now?

  "By the year 2004, Forrester Research and Gartner Group predict B2B 
   e-commerce transactions will top $7 trillion dollars, of which 37% will 
   be done via B2B marketplaces. More than 80 % of the Global 1000 
   companies will participate in B2B e-marketplaces by 2002 - and 100.000 
   of these marketplaces will be operational by 2001."

(from http://www.itworks.be/marketplaces/)

I think these figures were later downgraded to $6T by 2004 and $1.9T by 
about now.


- James
-- 
James Morris
<jmorris@intercode.com.au>



----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Thu Sep  5 23:51:46 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:51:46 +1000
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
Message-ID: <3D77EE12.CC5D3FAC@austarmetro.com.au>

An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
By STEVE LOHR
New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/05/technology/05CODE.html

Governments around the world, afraid that Microsoft has become too powerful
in critical software markets, have begun working to ensure an alternative.

More than two dozen countries in Asia, Europe and Latin America, including
China and Germany, are now encouraging their government agencies to use
"open source" software - developed by communities of programmers who
distribute the code without charge and donate their labor to cooperatively
debug, modify and otherwise improve the software.

The best known of these projects is Linux, a computer operating system that
Microsoft now regards as the leading competitive threat to its lucrative
Windows franchise in the market for software that runs computer servers.
The foremost corporate champion of Linux is I.B.M., which is working with
many governments on Linux projects.

Against this opposition, Microsoft has found itself in the uncommon
position of campaigning for the even-handed competition of "a level playing
field." And I.B.M., once the feared monopolist of the era of mainframe
computers, is casting itself as a force of liberation from Microsoft, the
monopolist of today.

Microsoft worries that some governments may all but require the use of
Linux for their powerful servers, which provide data to large networks of
computer users. For the most part, the battle does not involve the kind of
software that runs on the typical computer user's desk.

To curb such moves, Microsoft is backing an industry group called the
Initiative for Software Choice. The group lists 20 members - besides the
chip maker Intel, a close ally, most of them small foreign companies or
organizations. (Illegally stifling choice, of course, was precisely what
the federal courts in the long-running antitrust case ruled that Microsoft
did in the market for personal computer software.)

The motivations and actions by foreign governments vary somewhat, but
mostly they seem to be trying to ensure competition. That was the stance
taken by a delegation of Chinese officials involved in developing their
software industry, who visited the United States last month.

In an interview, Jiang Guangzhi, director of a software development center
in Shanghai, discussed the progress made in China on various Linux projects
and emphasized that the government did not want one company "to manipulate
or dominate the Chinese market." With its entry into the World Trade
Organization, China is facing increased pressure to crack down on software
piracy, adding to the appeal of free software like Linux, Mr. Jiang said.

His delegation had attended the LinuxWorld conference in San Francisco, and
met with I.B.M. executives and its Linux experts at the company's
headquarters in Armonk, N.Y.

Yet Mr. Jiang also spoke glowingly of Microsoft's involvement in China. The
company set up a research laboratory in Beijing and recently made a
commitment to invest $700 million in China over the next three years in
education, training and research, and in investments in local companies.

"We appreciate Microsoft's contributions," Mr. Jiang said.

To Chinese Communist officials, it seems, Linux is a useful tool of
pragmatic capitalism to pump-prime market competition to China's advantage.

The support of open source software by governments around the world is
rising. There are currently 66 government proposals, statements and studies
promoting open source software in 25 countries, according to the Initiative
for Software Choice. The policy statements and legislative proposals mainly
encourage the use of open source software in government procurement, and
nearly all of them have cropped up in the last 18 months.

"It's growing, unfortunately, from our perspective," said Mike Wendy, a
spokesman for the software initiative, which was founded in May.

The impetus for the international activity was in Europe. A technology
advisory group to the European Commission issued a report two years ago
that termed open source software "a great opportunity" for the region that
could perhaps "change the rules in the information technology industry,"
wresting the lead in software from the United States and reducing Europe's
reliance on imports.

As open source software, especially Linux, has spread, countries in other
regions have also come to regard it as both a model of software development
and perhaps an engine of economic growth. The government proposals and
projects are efforts to position their nations to exploit a promising trend
in technology.

Source code is software rendered in a programming language that human
programmers can read and understand, before it is compiled down to the
digital 1's and 0's that the machine processes. Software companies, like
Microsoft, typically guard their source code as a trade secret, and
certainly do not allow outsiders to modify or redistribute it.

In the open source model, the source code is freely published for all to
see. Then, interested programmers - often all over the world, communicating
over the Internet - work on a project to fix, modify and add improvements.
These self-selected communities work out their own governing arrangements
to determine when changes in the code are approved or rejected.

The leading open source projects are Apache, the software most used for
distributing Web pages to desktop computers, and the Linux operating
system. The kernel, or basic engine, of Linux was initially developed by
Linus Torvalds, a Finnish programmer who now works in the United States -
though the operating system itself is a result of work from many
contributors, including Richard M. Stallman, who leads a free software
project called GNU.

Just how far the open source model can go is uncertain. The projects rely
on voluntary contributions from programmers who work at universities,
government laboratories and companies. Money is made in the open source
environment by supplying technical support, services and writing
applications that run on top of the open source software.

Linux has certainly gone a long way already. Though there are versions of
Linux that run on desktop PC's, the real success of Linux has been as an
operating system on larger data-serving machines, which power computer
networks in corporations and governments and the Internet.

The big market for computer server software is also crucial to Microsoft's
future. Although the company controls a huge portion of the personal
computer operating systems market, to keep growing it must push
increasingly into the lucrative market for software that runs corporate and
government data centers. It is there that Microsoft encounters what its
senior executives have cited as the two most significant competitive
threats: I.B.M. and free software, notably Linux.

That combination, in Microsoft's view, could be particularly powerful,
especially if open source software emerges as the most politically
acceptable technological path.

In Germany, for example, the lower house of Parliament adopted a resolution
last November declaring that the government should use open source software
"whenever doing so will reduce costs." The resolution also cited as
advantages "stability" and "security." Microsoft's Windows operating system
is often criticized for crashing too often and for being susceptible to
computer viruses and security breaches.

Then in June, the German government and I.B.M. announced a "far-reaching
cooperation agreement" to use open source software in national and
municipal government agencies. "The fact that Linux provides a true
alternative to the Windows operating system," said Otto Schily, the German
interior minister, "increases our independence and improves our position as
a big customer for software."

The German case, I.B.M. says, is part of an emerging pattern. "There's not
a large government in the world we're not talking to," said Steven Solazzo,
general manager of I.B.M.'s Linux business.

The Initiative for Software Choice, the Microsoft-supported group, said it
has nothing against open source software as such, but that a declared
policy favoring one development model is a bias - a competition based on
prejudice instead of the merits of the products.

"All we're looking for is a level playing field competitively," said Peter
Houston, a senior strategy executive in Microsoft's Windows group.

As open source software moves out of its incubator of a comparatively small
community of devoted software developers and into the commercial
mainstream, customers - in governments and corporations - will increasingly
see its limitations, Mr. Houston said. Windows, he said, has a wide range
of tools and technical abilities that Linux does not have in a
"comprehensive, integrated, easy-to-use" package.

By contrast, Mr. Houston said, I.B.M. is mainly trying to convert its
weakness in the operating-system market to its advantage by making money
supplying the software - the ingredients that an operating system like
Linux lacks - and collecting services revenue for putting it all together.

"I.B.M. is just trying to move the value up the chain from the operating
system," Mr. Houston said.

In the end, market competition should determine whether Microsoft or Linux
gains the upper hand.

-- 
The trouble with the media is that it seems unable to distinguish between
the end of the world and a bicycle accident.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Fri Sep  6 00:44:09 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:44:09 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Another B2B model starts to flake?
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC09@EXCHANGE_AU>

According to current trends, it will soon be a zero-trillion-dollar
market...
RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Morris [mailto:jmorris@intercode.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, 6 September 2002 09:43
> To: Chirgwin, Richard
> Cc: 'link@www.anu.edu.au'
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Another B2B model starts to flake?
> 
> 
> On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> 
> > As I recall, it's only a couple of years since everyone was 
> hyping B2B
> > portals for the construction business.
> 
> Well, how solid is this type of prediction looking now?
> 
>   "By the year 2004, Forrester Research and Gartner Group predict B2B 
>    e-commerce transactions will top $7 trillion dollars, of 
> which 37% will 
>    be done via B2B marketplaces. More than 80 % of the Global 1000 
>    companies will participate in B2B e-marketplaces by 2002 - 
> and 100.000 
>    of these marketplaces will be operational by 2001."
> 
> (from http://www.itworks.be/marketplaces/)
> 
> I think these figures were later downgraded to $6T by 2004 
> and $1.9T by 
> about now.
> 
> 
> - James
> -- 
> James Morris
> <jmorris@intercode.com.au>
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From marghanita@ramin.com.au  Fri Sep  6 00:43:49 2002
From: marghanita@ramin.com.au (M. da Cruz)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:43:49 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Publishing vs Advertising was SWWA Broadband tender
References: <a05100301b99caf99b0b1@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <3D77FA45.735A@ramin.com.au>

Hang on, I think a few issues are getting confused here - Advertising vs
Publishing

The Internet seems to be recognised as a source of "reference
information & research data" The Yellow pages 2002 E-Business Report
-the online experience of small and medium enterprises (avail "at under
the SME section at": http://www.corporate.pacificaccess.com.au) reports: 
94% use the Internet to communicate via email and 
82% to reference information or research data.

However, if the advertisement had appeared only in the South West Region
courier (if such a paper exists) and on the website - we proably
wouldn't have heard about the tender. 

The interesting issue is the publication of "notices" - not being
familiar with legal procedures - I peruse with amazement the "Notices"
and "Court Notices" that appear in newspapers. I presume there is some
requirement to publish "notices" in particular ways.

Marghanita

Tony Barry wrote:
> 
> Link
> 
> Another in the ongoing saga of print and web publishing not being
> seen as the same? This time being pushed by the publisher though.
> 
> Tony
> 
> Brothel website hearing
> IMAGES of naked women on a Melbourne brothel's website were
> not advertising, a court has heard.
> http://email.ni.com.au/Click?q=3e-F5vnIizjmoC9x55_qGQZS3dR
> --
> --
> phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
> mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

-- 
Marghanita da Cruz 
mailto:marghanita@ramin.com.au
http://www.ramin.com.au - Tel:(+61)0414-869202
Ramin Communications - ABN 27 089 713 084


----------
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Fri Sep  6 04:15:07 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:15:07 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
In-Reply-To: <3D77EE12.CC5D3FAC@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061409530.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

I went to look at CompTIA's site (Initiative for Software Choice) and I
looked at their 4 principles:

	Procure software on its merits, not through categorical preferences
	Promote broad availability of government funded research
	Promote interoperability through platform-neutral standards
	Maintain a choice of strong intellectual property protections

It strikes me that these principles very much suit the Linux creed, and
the support of this organisation by M$ is particularly hypocritical in
light of principle 3.

I would like to see organisations such as RedHat, Suse try to join :) -
just stirring the possum.

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:

> An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
> By STEVE LOHR
> New York Times
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/05/technology/05CODE.html
>
> Governments around the world, afraid that Microsoft has become too powerful
> in critical software markets, have begun working to ensure an alternative.
>
[snip]
>
> To curb such moves, Microsoft is backing an industry group called the
> Initiative for Software Choice. The group lists 20 members - besides the
> chip maker Intel, a close ally, most of them small foreign companies or
> organizations. (Illegally stifling choice, of course, was precisely what
> the federal courts in the long-running antitrust case ruled that Microsoft
> did in the market for personal computer software.)

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Fri Sep  6 05:57:43 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:57:43 +1000
Subject: [LINK] NT Govt outsourcing policy a shambles
Message-ID: <3D7843D7.AFA40AA@austarmetro.com.au>

NT Govt outsourcing policy a shambles
BY HELEN YEATMAN
5 September, 2002 10:11
SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
http://www.arnnet.com.au/IDG2.NSF/All/E73F701033F58616CA256C2B00027D86!OpenDocument&NavArea=Home&SelectedCategoryName=News

The Northern Territory government is finally taking definitive steps to
remedy the disastrous impact its IT outsourcing policy has had on the
territory's local IT economy. It has conducted an IT Forum to address some
of the issues that some claim have "killed local businesses".

The Department of Corporate Information Services (DCIS), which manages the
IT&T infrastructure of the NT government, began outsourcing its IT
requirements in June 1999. But the government is now facing a $10 million
IT budget blowout, according to Peter Toyne, Minister for Corporate and
Information Services.

Bruce Diggens, managing director of Darwin-based integrator Asset
Management Systems, said the implementation of the NT government's
outsourcing policy has had a massive impact on his business, which
specialises in spatial information systems and the government market.

"We saw an impact immediately after the outsourcing program started,
particularly in midrange applications," Diggens said. "Because the desktop
contracts were so large -- they signed a $200 million contract with CSC for
desktop hardware and support and server management -- it meant they had no
cash to feed the mid-range apps area.

"The NT outsourcing policy has soaked up government agencies' kitties so
they can't spend money on licensing and so on from other businesses."

A number of the large outsourcing contracts went to multinationals such as
CSC and DMR Consulting or large national companies like Dialog against whom
smaller local businesses could not compete.

According to Diggens, the local IT community is far too small to see
enormous contracts being issued to a select number of companies. A number
of companies have had to shut up shop as a result of the implementation of
the outsourcing policy. The companies that have survived have had to
refocus their business and align themselves with the outsourcing companies.

Diggens said that not only is the local IT economy reeling from the massive
loss of revenue occasioned by the large outsourcing contracts, but many of
the government agencies forced into adopting the outsourcing policy are
extremely unhappy about the level of service they are receiving and are
looking to escape from their contracts.

Although the majority of agencies are only halfway through their
outsourcing contracts, Diggens said that government agencies like utility
provider Power and Water are already trying to buy their way out of their
outsourced agreements. Andrew Hodges, executive officer of the NT
Information Industry Association, said that Territory Health had also
expressed grave concerns about the lack of service it is receiving from its
outsourcer.

The NT government is facing a further cost crisis because all its systems
are running on IBM mainframes, which cannot run a number of the
contemporary applications used by the different agencies.

"The government is paying $20 million per annum for the provision of these
mainframes," said Hodges, but because a number of agencies cannot
effectively run some of their critical applications on the mainframes, they
have put their applications on more contemporary platforms and have had to
foot the bill by dipping into their discretionary spending funds.

The situation is so dire that the Northern Territory government called for
an ITC Industry and government Forum, which was held on September 4, to
address some of the issues surrounding the government's IT outsourcing
arrangements and the detrimental effects it has had on the local IT
economy.

"The government [under the new leadership of Chief Minister Clare Martin]
has inherited an expensive and diabolical mess left behind by former IT
Minister Peter Adamson, with government and taxpayers facing expected
blowouts of up to $10 million," Toyne said.

The government is also recruiting new staff within the Department of
Information and Communications Technology, such as newly appointed
executive director Les Hodgson, to review the government's outsourcing
arrangements to ensure it is getting the best possible value from the
contracts currently in place.

"The whole issue of outsourcing government IT services and the impact of
this policy on industry, government and individual agencies will also be
investigated," said Toyne.

But local IT players like Diggens are sceptical about how beneficial the
forum will be for the private sector. "The forum's agenda is about
rebuilding SMEs in the area, but if there's no money left in the government
coffers, then they're just pissing in the wind."

Government and private sector representatives agree that the NT
government's outsourcing strategy has been a fiasco since its inception and
that it failed to heed the warnings from the government-commissioned
Humphrey Report, which clearly pointed out that a broad-based outsourcing
policy would not necessarily benefit either the government or the private
sector.

"The government is full of people who aren't businesspeople in their own
right, but who are making business decisions," said Hodges.

According to Hodges, the government's misinterpretation of the requirements
of the local business community is a central issue that must be addressed.
"The level of collaboration between government policy and the private
sector has been sketchy at best. This has to change."

-- 
In a meeting with his generals, Abraham Lincoln once asked them, "If I call
a tail a leg, then how many legs does a sheep have?"

The generals replied, "Five."

Abraham Lincoln responded, "No, it’s four; because calling a tail a leg
doesn’t make it one."
-- unknown

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au  Fri Sep  6 06:12:21 2002
From: carl@xena.ipaustralia.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Date: 06 Sep 2002 16:12:21 +1000
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061409530.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061409530.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <1031292741.46608.10.camel@newton.aipo.gov.au>

On Fri, 2002-09-06 at 14:15, Howard Lowndes wrote:

> I went to look at CompTIA's site (Initiative for Software Choice) and I
> looked at their 4 principles:

-> > 	Maintain a choice of strong intellectual property protections

This is the kicker. The others mean little if your "platform neutral
standard" is "protected".


Carl.
(not speaking for IP Australia! :)



----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From lannet@lannet.com.au  Fri Sep  6 06:45:50 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:45:50 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] NT Govt outsourcing policy a shambles
In-Reply-To: <3D7843D7.AFA40AA@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061636420.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:

> NT Govt outsourcing policy a shambles
> BY HELEN YEATMAN
> 5 September, 2002 10:11
> SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
> http://www.arnnet.com.au/IDG2.NSF/All/E73F701033F58616CA256C2B00027D86!OpenDocument&NavArea=Home&SelectedCategoryName=News
>
> The Northern Territory government is finally taking definitive steps to
> remedy the disastrous impact its IT outsourcing policy has had on the
> territory's local IT economy. It has conducted an IT Forum to address some
> of the issues that some claim have "killed local businesses".
>
> The Department of Corporate Information Services (DCIS), which manages the
> IT&T infrastructure of the NT government, began outsourcing its IT
> requirements in June 1999. But the government is now facing a $10 million
> IT budget blowout, according to Peter Toyne, Minister for Corporate and
> Information Services.
>
> Bruce Diggens, managing director of Darwin-based integrator Asset
> Management Systems, said the implementation of the NT government's
> outsourcing policy has had a massive impact on his business, which
> specialises in spatial information systems and the government market.
>
> "We saw an impact immediately after the outsourcing program started,
> particularly in midrange applications," Diggens said. "Because the desktop
> contracts were so large -- they signed a $200 million contract with CSC for
> desktop hardware and support and server management -- it meant they had no
> cash to feed the mid-range apps area.

This is nothing short of criminal negligence - except that it done by a
government who cannot be guilty of such things.

Population of NT - 210,664 so the contract is just under $1000 per head

In employment 97,500 or just over $2000 per employee

Average income $499 per week or $26,000 per annum or $2.5B per year for
all employees.

Assume the contract is over 5 years then it represents around 1.5% of each
employees wages.

[*] all figures are from the NT web site

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From darius@obsidian.com.au  Fri Sep  6 06:55:40 2002
From: darius@obsidian.com.au (KevinL)
Date: 06 Sep 2002 16:55:40 +1000
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061409530.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061409530.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <1031295341.2927.645.camel@ufo>

On Fri, 2002-09-06 at 14:15, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> I went to look at CompTIA's site (Initiative for Software Choice) and I
> looked at their 4 principles:
> 
> 	Procure software on its merits, not through categorical preferences
> 	Promote broad availability of government funded research
> 	Promote interoperability through platform-neutral standards
> 	Maintain a choice of strong intellectual property protections
> 
> It strikes me that these principles very much suit the Linux creed, and
> the support of this organisation by M$ is particularly hypocritical in
> light of principle 3.
> 
> I would like to see organisations such as RedHat, Suse try to join :) -
> just stirring the possum.

The trick, of course, is that this is a MS-driven initiative, using
words that make themselves look friendly.  Compare to various
"astroturf" organisations in America, where a company will set itself up
with a friendly-sounding organisation to push it's own agenda
(environmental lobbyists are very used to this - you get organisation
names that sound fluffy and environmental and nice, who are pushing
pro-logging or pro-mining agendas - or "junk science" sites that attack
anyone trying to apply scientifically sound methods to studying various
things).

The name makes people who don't know the background think they must be a
good group to listen to - then they come out with this sort of
propoganda.

It's done by both sides, I'm sure, but it's the monied side of any
debate that has more ability to play these tricks.  Hence, you don't see
a "centre for innovative proprietary systems" claiming that the best way
to build a strong company is through strategic use of GPL software and
consulting/whatever around that (the semi-standard model pushed for
GPL-based companies).

Think of it less as an organisation that MS is supporting that happens
to have decided free software has issues, and more as a semi-detached
arm of MS, and what they say makes a lot more sense.

http://www.prwatch.org/ is worth a read for more info on this sort of
shennanigans.

KJL

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Fri Sep  6 06:53:50 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:53:50 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Fwd: R/T15 - sights and sounds
Message-ID: <a05100306b99e01650ed6@[10.0.1.202]>


<< start of forwarded material >>


Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:13:42 +1000
Subject: R/T15 - sights and sounds
From: Justine Molony <aah.office@anu.edu.au>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/)

Dear NSCF,

The following website has the information and registration form for the next
Round Table - Sights and Sounds in Scholarly Communication:

http://www.humanities.org.au/NSCF/current.htm

I would be grateful if you could circulate the information to anyone you
think may be interested.

Thanks,

Justine
Executive Assistant
The Australian Academy of the Humanities
GPO Box 93
CANBERRA ACT 2601
3 Liversidge Street, Acton, ACT
aah.office@anu.edu.au
www.humanities.org.au
Tel: 02 6125 9860
Fax: 02 6248 6287

<< end of forwarded material >>
-- 
--
phone : +61 2 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au
mobile: +61 4 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au
----------
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From MedEuroImports@hotmail.com  Fri Sep  6 11:55:20 2002
From: MedEuroImports@hotmail.com (MedEuroImports@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 04:55:20 -0700
Subject: [LINK] Always search for the truth
Message-ID: <200209060943.g869h59v028882@anu.edu.au>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/5382bf27/attachment.htm
From hartr@interweft.com.au  Fri Sep  6 13:16:16 2002
From: hartr@interweft.com.au (hartr@interweft.com.au)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 23:16:16 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061409530.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <200209061316.g86DGJX14684@bree.inside.interweft.com.au>

On  6 Sep, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> I went to look at CompTIA's site (Initiative for Software Choice) and I
> looked at their 4 principles:
> 
> 	Procure software on its merits, not through categorical preferences
> 	Promote broad availability of government funded research
> 	Promote interoperability through platform-neutral standards
> 	Maintain a choice of strong intellectual property protections
> 
> It strikes me that these principles very much suit the Linux creed, and
> the support of this organisation by M$ is particularly hypocritical in
> light of principle 3.

At the risk of repeating myself, take a look at
	http://www.sincerechoice.org/

This offers an analysis fo the Software Choice approach and an alternate
set of principles - which in particular does NOT promote open source or
proprietary software (it specifically says the two should interoperate).

The key here is for TRUE open standards - and choice through
interoperabilty.

Interestingly, I have not seen any response on this from the Microsoft
camp - possibly because they cannot respond without truly showing their
hand. I'd love to see our media ask Microsoft Australia for a response
on this.

> I would like to see organisations such as RedHat, Suse try to join :) -
> just stirring the possum.

It would be extremely hard for Red Hat to join I think, given their very
strong commitment to open source (they only release software under an
appropriate open source licence). I reckon the CompTIA people would kind
of know this and smell a rat :-)

SuSE might be able to join as it has never had the same level of
commitment to open source, having released software under non-open
source licences.

-- 
Robert Hart					 hartr@interweft.com.au
Strategic IT & open source consulting                +61 (0)438 385 533
Brisbane, Australia			    http://www.interweft.com.au

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From jmorris@intercode.com.au  Fri Sep  6 16:21:59 2002
From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 02:21:59 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows
Message-ID: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209070211460.11269-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au>

Another one...

http://www.paknews.com/top.php?id=1&date1=2002-09-06

  ISLAMABAD, September 06 (PNS): While the government continues to engage
  Microsoft Corporation in dialogue to seek exceptional discounts for
  making its software as platform for official operating systems, a recent
  notification suggest that the stage is being set to adopt Linux instead.

  "Linux is going to be the cornerstone of this initiative, as it is
  world over the Open Source movement," said the official correspondence
  confirming its decision to replace the pirated Windows-based systems
  already in use in the government offices.
 
  On the other hand, the government has sought huge discounts from
  Microsoft Corporation for adopting its software as platform of choice
  for the official machinery. The PC-1 for the project has not been
  approved so far, PNS has learnt on authority. Well-placed official
  sources told PNS, "The Microsoft Corporation has already offered over
  90 per cent discount to the government but we want to press for more
  cuts in prices."

  [...]



- James
-- 
James Morris
<jmorris@intercode.com.au>


----------
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Fri Sep  6 21:32:13 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 07:32:13 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows
In-Reply-To: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209070211460.11269-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209070727140.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

Ah, yes, Pakistan.  Where a girl is sentenced by a tribal council to be
pack raped to atone for the "sins" of her brother.

I think the association of holding Pakistan up as an example does little
for Linux advocacy.

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, James Morris wrote:

> Another one...
>
> http://www.paknews.com/top.php?id=1&date1=2002-09-06
>
>   ISLAMABAD, September 06 (PNS): While the government continues to engage
>   Microsoft Corporation in dialogue to seek exceptional discounts for
>   making its software as platform for official operating systems, a recent
>   notification suggest that the stage is being set to adopt Linux instead.
>
>   "Linux is going to be the cornerstone of this initiative, as it is
>   world over the Open Source movement," said the official correspondence
>   confirming its decision to replace the pirated Windows-based systems
>   already in use in the government offices.
>
>   On the other hand, the government has sought huge discounts from
>   Microsoft Corporation for adopting its software as platform of choice
>   for the official machinery. The PC-1 for the project has not been
>   approved so far, PNS has learnt on authority. Well-placed official
>   sources told PNS, "The Microsoft Corporation has already offered over
>   90 per cent discount to the government but we want to press for more
>   cuts in prices."

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Fri Sep  6 20:26:49 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 06:26:49 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Publishing vs Advertising was SWWA Broadband tender
In-Reply-To: <3D77FA45.735A@ramin.com.au>
References: <a05100301b99caf99b0b1@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020907062419.025dea20@pop.primenet.com>

At 10:43 AM 6/09/02 +1000, M. da Cruz wrote:
>However, if the advertisement had appeared only in the South West Region
>courier (if such a paper exists) and on the website - we proably
>wouldn't have heard about the tender.

The brothel had a tender?  A tender what?  ;-)

There is a story in the Age today :

Brothel's website was an ad, court finds
By Selma Milovanovic
September 7 2002
A Melbourne magistrate yesterday rejected the claim of an Elsternwick 
brothel that its explicit website was not an advertisement.
Magistrate Lisa Hannan ruled that the Prostitution Control Act, which 
prohibits radio and television advertisements for prostitution, extended to 
Internet advertising. She was presiding over a preliminary hearing of a 
case brought by Consumer Affairs Victoria against the Daily Planet brothel.

[snip]

She agreed with prosecutor Stephen Devlin that material on a website could 
be classed as a publication and that despite the international nature of 
the Internet, the Daily Planet website could be accessed, downloaded and 
printed from within Victoria.
On Thursday, Daily Planet removed all explicit content from its website. Mr 
Trimble will contest the charges on February 25 next year.

http://theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/06/1031115935750.html


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Fri Sep  6 21:01:29 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 07:01:29 +1000
Subject: [LINK] NT Govt outsourcing policy a shambles
In-Reply-To: <3D7843D7.AFA40AA@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020907065627.025e9e60@pop.primenet.com>

At 03:57 PM 6/09/02 +1000, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:
>"The government is full of people who aren't businesspeople in their own
>right, but who are making business decisions," said Hodges.

This is also a weird comment.  It's not just a lack of business skills or 
IT skills.  It's a problem of a lack of an ability to put the two together 
from a public good position and stand one's ground against unscrupulous 
marketing staff of the vendors.  It's an inability to read and trust 
commissioned expert reports of people who are disinterested in the agendas 
of those who stand to benefit from the decision.

I always wonder why there is this thought that Ministers are the ones who 
know any of this stuff any way. [Do we really think David Kemp knows any 
thing about the environment in his own right?]  I was pleased to see in the 
report that the department staff are also being changed.  My guess is that 
the political agendas and department staff ambitions are what gets 
governments into these terrible positions.  I'm not knocking all public 
servants or political minders.  Some of my best friends fit in those 
categories.  But you gotta admit, there are holes in the process somewhere 
to have so many examples of this sort out there.

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Fri Sep  6 22:00:11 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 08:00:11 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Plac
	es
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC2B@EXCHANGE_AU>

The techniques were probably first perfected by PR companies working for the
pharmaceutical industry. The rough outline:

1) New drug discovered (or new treatment);
2) Drug company finances interest/contact groups - partly to find some
success stories that fit into its later media strategy;
3) Drug company finances social/economic research - "involuntary erections
cost this country $42 billion annually!" stuff;
4) Research and success stories get "placed" in the media;
5) The combination of 2 - 4 forms the basis of lobbying efforts on two
fronts: getting doctors along to hear about the benefits of the drug; and
getting politicians to pay for it.

The CompTIA "initiative" is just another take on this sort of behaviour.
Regrettably, 'money PR' has become a serious force in how IT is put before
the public. And because of their (relatively niaive) history, few IT journos
have been exposed to this sort of stuff before.

And the research skills to expose such things as CompTIA aren't innate: they
have to be taught ...

[Comment on drug company behaviour: pharmaceutical PR goes a long way
towards what I call "narrowing of normal" - the only way you can convince
someone to buy a treatment is to convince them that they suffer from a
'disorder'. But that often means what was normal ten years ago is a disorder
today...]

Richard Chirgwin

-----Original Message-----
From: KevinL
To: Howard Lowndes
Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au
Sent: 9/6/02 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places

On Fri, 2002-09-06 at 14:15, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> I went to look at CompTIA's site (Initiative for Software Choice) and
I
> looked at their 4 principles:
> 
> 	Procure software on its merits, not through categorical
preferences
> 	Promote broad availability of government funded research
> 	Promote interoperability through platform-neutral standards
> 	Maintain a choice of strong intellectual property protections
> 
> It strikes me that these principles very much suit the Linux creed,
and
> the support of this organisation by M$ is particularly hypocritical in
> light of principle 3.
> 
> I would like to see organisations such as RedHat, Suse try to join :)
-
> just stirring the possum.

The trick, of course, is that this is a MS-driven initiative, using
words that make themselves look friendly.  Compare to various
"astroturf" organisations in America, where a company will set itself up
with a friendly-sounding organisation to push it's own agenda
(environmental lobbyists are very used to this - you get organisation
names that sound fluffy and environmental and nice, who are pushing
pro-logging or pro-mining agendas - or "junk science" sites that attack
anyone trying to apply scientifically sound methods to studying various
things).

The name makes people who don't know the background think they must be a
good group to listen to - then they come out with this sort of
propoganda.

It's done by both sides, I'm sure, but it's the monied side of any
debate that has more ability to play these tricks.  Hence, you don't see
a "centre for innovative proprietary systems" claiming that the best way
to build a strong company is through strategic use of GPL software and
consulting/whatever around that (the semi-standard model pushed for
GPL-based companies).

Think of it less as an organisation that MS is supporting that happens
to have decided free software has issues, and more as a semi-detached
arm of MS, and what they say makes a lot more sense.

http://www.prwatch.org/ is worth a read for more info on this sort of
shennanigans.

KJL

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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Fri Sep  6 23:36:11 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:36:11 +1000
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
In-Reply-To: <200209061316.g86DGJX14684@bree.inside.interweft.com.au>; from hartr@interweft.com.au on Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 11:16:16PM +1000
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209061409530.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au> <200209061316.g86DGJX14684@bree.inside.interweft.com.au>
Message-ID: <20020907093611.A10329@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

> > I would like to see organisations such as RedHat, Suse try to join :) -
> > just stirring the possum.
 
hartr@interweft.com.au wrote:
> It would be extremely hard for Red Hat to join I think, given their very
> strong commitment to open source (they only release software under an
> appropriate open source licence). 

> SuSE might be able to join as it has never had the same level of
> commitment to open source, having released software under non-open
> source licences.
 
How much software has Microsoft released under a genuine open source
licence?  Their obvious commitment to proprietary software doesn't
seem to have stopped them being an advocate of "choice"...

But as someone pointed out, the whole thing is clearly astroturf.
I don't know why companies like Intel joined, though.

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------
----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Fri Sep  6 23:43:48 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:43:48 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209070727140.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>; from lannet@lannet.com.au on Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 07:32:13AM +1000
References: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209070211460.11269-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209070727140.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <20020907094348.B10329@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Howard Lowndes wrote:
> Ah, yes, Pakistan.  Where a girl is sentenced by a tribal council to be
> pack raped to atone for the "sins" of her brother.
 
And the people who did that were subsequently sentenced to death...

> I think the association of holding Pakistan up as an example does little
> for Linux advocacy.
 
No bad things have ever happened in Australia or the United States?

You can't dismiss an entire country -- especially one that diverse
(anyone think they know what the most widely spoken language in
Pakistan is?) -- on the basis of one news report that happens to have
been picked up by the western media.  Bad shit happens all over the
world, on an unfortunately regular basis.

I spent three weeks in Pakistan in 1999.
	http://danny.oz.au/1999/pakistan/

Danny.

----------
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From sobenightlife4@hotmail.com  Sat Sep  7 00:28:09 2002
From: sobenightlife4@hotmail.com (Labeth Backhaus)
Date: 07 Sep 02 00:28:09 -0000
Subject: [LINK] New product
Message-ID: <200209070050.g870oXLV014518@anu.edu.au>

Please do not email me at the address above, email me at ingpist@btamail.net.cn
COOL, WET AND CAN BE WILD.... IN JUST MINUTES
 
Those are just a few ways to describe it. This totally adjustable sleek design adds flavor and excitement to any toilet. 
 
 Whether it's a fetish or personal hygiene the TushyClean provides a unique alternative to abrasive toilet paper. The carefully designed water jet technology is effective at removing residual waste, while enabling the user to simultaneously reap the soothing benefits of a washing sensation. It's great for hemorrhoid relief too !!!
 
An adjustable lever gives the user full control over the force of water. The nozzle can be positioned for optimal comfort and easy cleaning on any toilet 
 
The patented design offers strength, reliability and easy installation by anyone.  Now available in  5 colors. Plus it comes complete with a free universal hook up kit to fit any standard plumbing. 
 
Free gift wrapping and free shipping anywhere in the U.S.
 
See for yourself why this top quality, affordable TushyClean washes away the competition.
Please email me at  hasp@btamail.net.cn

djdjd

----------
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From nospam@easyrsvp.com  Sat Sep  7 01:44:04 2002
From: nospam@easyrsvp.com (Ash Nallawalla)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:44:04 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows
In-Reply-To: <20020907094348.B10329@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <001f01c25610$0dade1c0$0100a8c0@pcu>

> From: Danny Yee

> You can't dismiss an entire country -- especially one that 
> diverse (anyone think they know what the most widely spoken 
> language in Pakistan is?) 

You will find many opinions depending on whom you ask and what is
regarded as a spoken language.  Many people in the subcontinent speak
3-4 languages.

Punjabi is the most common language by sheer numbers.  The national
language, Urdu, is not the language of any of Pakistan's provinces, but
all educated Pakistanis and many others can speak it.  This person
claims that Urdu is the most widely spoken:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sadil/pakistan.html

A month ago, a Pakistani colleague from Lahore but living in the US said
that his trips suggest to him that Punjabi is losing its 

> I spent three weeks in Pakistan in 1999.
> 	http://danny.oz.au/1999/pakistan/

404.  Try http://danny.oz.au/travel/1999/pakistan/

----------
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From at@ah.net  Sat Sep  7 02:14:03 2002
From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 12:14:03 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Law criminalizes contact with ET
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>

Thought linkers might get a good laugh out of this one :)


>From: "Robin"
>Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 00:37:08 -0400
>
>Hey guys I just got a letter in my email that's full of interesting facts 
>but this one struck me, is this really a law??? If so why the hell don't 
>we ever hear about this one, and why aren't the abductees getting any 
>static for it?
>
>If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 
>14,Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations,implemented on July 16,
>1969, make it illegal for U.S. citizens to have any contact with 
>extraterrestrials or their vehicles?

----------
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From rha@juggernaut.com.au  Sat Sep  7 02:56:07 2002
From: rha@juggernaut.com.au (Richard Archer)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 12:56:07 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Law criminalizes contact with ET
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
Message-ID: <p05111b1db99f1aba8d3f@c17876.sunsh2.vic.optusnet.com.au>

At 12:14 +1000 7/9/02, Adam Todd wrote:

>Thought linkers might get a good laugh out of this one :)


Why am I not surprised. Do us all a favour adam and think
before you post.

http://www.snopes.com/legal/et.htm

 ...R.
----------
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From me@karmanaut.com  Sat Sep  7 03:43:48 2002
From: me@karmanaut.com (Viveka)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 13:43:48 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Law criminalizes contact with ET
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
Message-ID: <a05111702b99f263ef877@[144.132.248.89]>

http://www.snopes.com/legal/et.htm

Snopes is always a good source for this kind of thing.

Regards,

V.
-- 
Viveka Weiley, Karmanaut.
{ http://www.karmanaut.com | http://www.planet-earth.org
    http://www.MacWeb3D.org | http://sydney.siggraph.org.au }
Hypermedia, virtual worlds, human interface, truth, beauty.
----------
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From adam@todd.inoz.com  Sat Sep  7 01:59:38 2002
From: adam@todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 11:59:38 +1000
Subject: [LINK] In Greece, play with your mobile or game boy - go to jail
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907115834.0566fec0@pop>

Not sure if this story made it to link, but it caught my attention on a 
Child Protection web site.

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-956357.html

In Greece, use a Game Boy, go to jail
By Matt Loney and Rupert Goodwins
ZDNet (UK)
September 3, 2002, 3:18 PM PT
URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-956406.html
In Greece, playing a shoot-'em-up video game could land you in jail.
The Greek government has banned all electronic games across the country, 
including those that run on home computers, on Game Boy-style portable 
consoles, and on mobile phones. Thousands of tourists in Greece are 
unknowingly facing heavy fines or long terms in prison for owning mobile 
phones or portable video games.
Greek Law Number 3037, enacted at the end of July, explicitly forbids 
electronic games with "electronic mechanisms and software" from public and 
private places, and people have already been fined tens of thousands of 
dollars for playing or owning games.
The law applies equally to visitors from abroad: "If you know these things 
are banned, you should not bring them in," said a commercial attaché at the 
Greek Embassy in London, who declined to give her name.
Internet cafes will be allowed to continue to operate, providing no 
games-playing takes place. If a customer is found to be running any sort of 
game, including online chess, the cafe owner will be fined and the place 
closed.
The Greek government introduced the law in an attempt to prevent illegal 
gambling. According to a report in the Greek newspaper Kathimerini, Greek 
police will be responsible for catching offenders, who will face fines of 
5,000 to 75,000 euros (about $4,980 to $74,650) and imprisonment of one to 
12 months. "The blanket ban was decided in February after the government 
admitted it was incapable of distinguishing innocuous video games from 
illegal gambling machines," the report said.
The Greek gaming community has reacted with a mixture of shock, disbelief 
and anger. One Web site, www.gameland.gr, has started a news service about 
the ban and opened a petition to protest it. In addition, it is posting 
English translations of the law and messages of support from around the world.
A test case is to come before the Greek courts next week, and the Greek 
gaming community is already planning protests in the event that the 
defendant is convicted.
"We are trying to organize a protest against this law," said Petros Tipis 
of Thessaloniki-based gaming company Reload Entertainment, which has had to 
cancel a gaming tournament that was to be held this week.
If the prosecution of the defendant next week is successful, said Tipis, 
the Greek gaming industry will take the case to the European Court.
In the meantime, Tipis told ZDNet UK, a lot of people in Greece are very 
worried about the new law. "They are taking it very seriously," he said. 
"It even affects the games that come with Windows. This law isn't the right 
one," he added. "It is unfair. It was introduced too quickly."
Reload's tournament, which was to be held Fridah, was a qualifier for the 
CPL Oslo 2002 gaming tournament. "Now we are trying not to lose the two 
slots we were given from CPL for the tournament," Tipis said. "This was the 
first time for a qualifier (for this tournament) in Greece."
ZDNet UK's Rupert Goodwins and Matt Loney reported from London.

----------
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From at@ah.net  Sat Sep  7 04:13:55 2002
From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 14:13:55 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Law criminalizes contact with ET
In-Reply-To: <p05111b1db99f1aba8d3f@c17876.sunsh2.vic.optusnet.com.au>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907141321.05403180@pop>


> >Thought linkers might get a good laugh out of this one :)
>
>
>Why am I not surprised.

I did say get a laugh.

>Do us all a favour adam and think before you post.
>
>http://www.snopes.com/legal/et.htm

Ok, so now the question is - which one is the myth?

Sheesh.  Humor left the country early this year.


----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From bobb@soxkat.com  Sat Sep  7 04:43:12 2002
From: bobb@soxkat.com (Bob Bain)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 14:43:12 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Law criminalizes contact with ET
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020907121316.0590e130@pop>
Message-ID: <ri0jnu4s81h7qubl3cqjh3ssauq0h69kca@4ax.com>

On Sat, 07 Sep 2002 12:14:03 +1000, Adam Todd wrote:

>>Hey guys I just got a letter in my email that's full of interesting facts 
>>but this one struck me, is this really a law??? If so why the hell don't 
>>we ever hear about this one, and why aren't the abductees getting any 
>>static for it?

>>If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 
>>14,Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations,implemented on July 16,
>>1969, make it illegal for U.S. citizens to have any contact with 
>>extraterrestrials or their vehicles?

 From what I can see it relates primarily to Earthlings rather than
little green people...

  http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/aliens.htm

 --------------------

Section 1211 was added in 1969 when the U.S. would be bringing a space
vehicle and astronauts back to earth from a mission to the moon. The
section was designed to protect the earth from any contamination that
may have been picked up during the trip and did not specifically
describe contact with alien beings or UFO's. The wording from Section
1211 part 100 says, " NASA policy, responsibility and authority to
guard the Earth against any harmful contamination or adverse changes
in its environment resulting from personnel, spacecraft and other
property returning to the [earth] after landing on or coming within
the atmospheric envelope of a celestial body..." There is no mention
of alien beings or vehicles.

 -----------------------------

1211.100 Title 14 - Aeronautics and Space

Part 1211 - Extra-terrestrial Exposure

1211.100 - Scope

This part establishes: (a) NASA policy, responsibility and authority
to guard the Earth against any harmful contamination or adverse
changes in its environment resulting from personnel, spacecraft and
other property returning to the Earth after landing on or coming
within the atmospheric envelope of a celestial body; and (b) security
requirements, restrictions and safeguards that are necessary in the
interest of national security.

1211.101 - Applicability

The provisions of this part to all NASA manned and unmanned space
missions which land or come within the atmospheric envelope of a
celestial body and return to the Earth.

1211.102 - Definitions

(a) "NASA" and the "Administrator" mean, respectively the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration and the administrator of the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration or his authorized
representative.

(b) "Extra-terrestrially exposed" means the state of condition of any
person, property, animal or other form of life or matter whatever, who
or which has:

(1) Touched directly or come within the atmospheric envelope or any
other celestial body; or

(2) Touched directly or been in close proximity to (or been exposed
indirectly to) any person, property, animal or other form of life or
matter who or which has been extra-terrestrially exposed by virtue of
paragraph (b)(1) of this section.

For example, if person or thing "A" touches the surface of the Moon,
and on "A's" return to Earth, "B" touches "A" and, subsequently, "C"
touches "B", all of these - "A" through "C" inclusive - would be
extra- terrestrially exposed ("A" and "B" directly; "C" indirectly). 
 
--------------------------

----------
Bob Bain
bobb@soxkat.com
www.soxkat.com/~bobb
Sydney Australia
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From mail@ecommercereport.com.au  Sat Sep  7 07:35:04 2002
From: mail@ecommercereport.com.au (stewart carter)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 17:35:04 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020907173352.02866070@mail.sprintsoft.com>

Linkers,

I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day and
when I went to www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus site appears to be still
be in operation.

The 'official' site is, of course, at www.soh.nsw.gov.au

I'm told that a fellow "reptile of the press" reported on it recently.

Does anyone have any clues on whom, or where?


Stewart Carter
eCommerce Report
www.ecommercereport.com.au
Ph 03 9347 5254 or mob 0411 477 149

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From rick@praxis.com.au  Sat Sep  7 08:50:40 2002
From: rick@praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 18:50:40 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Here is a first: unknown attack vector can affect most MS Windows 
 Platforms
Message-ID: <3D79BDE0.ADCD657B@praxis.com.au>

<http://www.techtv.com/news/security/story/0,24195,3398556,00.html>

Mysterious Hack Attack Strikes Windows Users
The source does not appear to be a worm or a virus.

By Becky Worley, Tech Live
Print Printer-friendly format
Email Email this story

Microsoft posted a mysterious alert on its product support services (PSS) page.
<http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q328691>

The alert warns of a hack attack that locks out users, installs backdoor programs, and
gives an attacker remote access via IRC. Tonight's "Tech Live" reports.

Some IT managers say the hack is also installing a key-logging program onto infected
computers. Oddly, the source of this attack doesn't appear to be a worm or a virus.
But the sudden increase in reports of the attack has convinced the PSS that the attack
is automated.

Since the method of infection is still unknown, Microsoft says antivirus programs do not
protect users from the attack. 
Here's a list of affected systems:

    * Microsoft Windows 98
    * Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition
    * Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition
    * Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 4.0
    * Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0
    * Microsoft Windows NT Server, Enterprise Edition 4.0
    * Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
    * Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
    * Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server
    * Microsoft Windows 2000 Datacenter Server
    * Microsoft Windows XP 64-bit Edition
    * Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
    * Microsoft Windows XP Professional

[SNIP]


cheers
rickw



-- 
_________________________________
Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services

linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
  (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From daeheego@naver.com  Mon Sep  2 09:50:24 2002
From: daeheego@naver.com (ÇÚµåÆù)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 18:50:24 +0900
Subject: [LINK] ÃֽŠĮ¶ó ÇÚµåÆùÀÌ 3¸¸¿ø! ÇÚµåÆù °øµ¿±¸¸Å! [±¤°í]
Message-ID: <76700-2200291295024577@naver.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/cae071cf/attachment.htm
From annm@exocat.com.au  Sat Sep  7 10:06:00 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 20:06:00 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020907173352.02866070@mail.sprintsoft.com>
Message-ID: <006401c25656$2e85ebe0$d8218790@telstra.com>

it was discussed on the abc radio about a week ago. evidently it even takes
money from people via their credit cards. when the tickets don't turn up
they phone the opera house to hear they've been had.

surely the govt can stop this sort of thing-esp in the case of the opera
house!!

peace & love

(i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the hope
that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the shrub
needs it to get re-elected!!)
************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "stewart carter" <mail@ecommercereport.com.au>
To: <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:35 PM
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site


> Linkers,
>
> I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day and
> when I went to www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus site appears to be still
> be in operation.
>
> The 'official' site is, of course, at www.soh.nsw.gov.au
>
> I'm told that a fellow "reptile of the press" reported on it recently.
>
> Does anyone have any clues on whom, or where?
>
>
> Stewart Carter
> eCommerce Report
> www.ecommercereport.com.au
> Ph 03 9347 5254 or mob 0411 477 149
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From gtaylor@efa.org.au  Sat Sep  7 10:32:03 2002
From: gtaylor@efa.org.au (Greg Taylor)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 20:32:03 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020907173352.02866070@mail.sprintsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000001c25659$ceee3170$0301a8c0@greghome>

On Saturday, 7 September 2002 5:35 PM Stewart Carter wrote:
> I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day and
> when I went to www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus site appears to be still
> be in operation.
> 
> The 'official' site is, of course, at www.soh.nsw.gov.au
> 
> I'm told that a fellow "reptile of the press" reported on it recently.
> 
> Does anyone have any clues on whom, or where?

Haven't learnt how to use Google yet Stewart? ;-)

http://www.abc.net.au/am/s660796.htm
Internet ticket scam 
AM - Wednesday, August  28, 2002 8:21 
....


Greg

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From karl@inspired.net.au  Sat Sep  7 10:58:03 2002
From: karl@inspired.net.au (karl@inspired.net.au)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 20:58:03 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <006401c25656$2e85ebe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020907205529.8237A-100000@inspired.net.au>


Stewart, Ann, Linkers,

surely the gov't shouldn't need to do much about this...

surely the people who do get sucked in contact their bank and request a
credit card chargeback - for services paid for and not supplied?

Most banks are happy to do this, so long as you agree to pay a small
($10-$20) fee if you are proven wrong.

Regards
Karl
=8)




On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote:

> it was discussed on the abc radio about a week ago. evidently it even takes
> money from people via their credit cards. when the tickets don't turn up
> they phone the opera house to hear they've been had.
> 
> surely the govt can stop this sort of thing-esp in the case of the opera
> house!!
> 
> peace & love
> 
> (i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the hope
> that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the shrub
> needs it to get re-elected!!)
> ************************************
> Ann Moffatt
> EXoCaT Pty Ltd
> 49 Raintree Avenue
> BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
> tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
> fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
> ***********************************
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stewart carter" <mail@ecommercereport.com.au>
> To: <link@www.anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:35 PM
> Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
> 
> 
> > Linkers,
> >
> > I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day and
> > when I went to www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus site appears to be still
> > be in operation.
> >
> > The 'official' site is, of course, at www.soh.nsw.gov.au
> >
> > I'm told that a fellow "reptile of the press" reported on it recently.
> >
> > Does anyone have any clues on whom, or where?
> >
> >
> > Stewart Carter
> > eCommerce Report
> > www.ecommercereport.com.au
> > Ph 03 9347 5254 or mob 0411 477 149
> >
> > ----------
> > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From bobb@soxkat.com  Sat Sep  7 11:21:34 2002
From: bobb@soxkat.com (Bob Bain)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 21:21:34 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209070727140.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
References: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209070211460.11269-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209070727140.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <7lnjnush053kpkn34vddi6tdtvbhdg07fs@4ax.com>

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002 07:32:13 +1000 (EST), Howard Lowndes wrote:

>Ah, yes, Pakistan.  Where a girl is sentenced by a tribal council to be
>pack raped to atone for the "sins" of her brother.

 But suggested in the Christian Bible - the cornerstone of Western
morality.  (Fortunately this hasn't been carried forward to our
Western democracy legal system):-

"Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I
pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye unto them as is good in
your eyes, only unto these men do nothing." (Lot speaking to an angry
mob, Genesis 19:8)"

 Basically - "Don't rape the men.  I have virgin daughters you can
use"  This has always been a sticky point for me.  It's one of the
crucial paragraphs that lead me to reject the suggestion I should read
such books for the "Good News" they contain..

 I believe operating systems are religion resistant and the use of
Linux in any country should be seperated from belief systems/practices
(abhorrent or otherwise) of any country under consideration.

----------
Bob Bain
bobb@soxkat.com
www.soxkat.com/~bobb
Sydney Australia
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From grove@zeta.org.au  Sat Sep  7 13:17:51 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 23:17:51 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <006401c25656$2e85ebe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote:

> peace & love
>
> (i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the hope
> that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the shrub
> needs it to get re-elected!!)

Trouble is, most of this current generation of kids that are the same age now as
the 60's generation was then, couldn't give a sh*t about peace and love.

This current lot are all conservatives and seem hell bent on continuing to
vote conservative govts into power.   Just look at little Johnny in the
playground getting mobbed by schoolgirls in all the recent photo opportunities.

Then you look at someone like John Brogden (NSW state lib leader) who has often
been accused of being "born 40" - he's 36 or something......

Where is all the student activism?  Why is it all the union activists I've
seen recently are all over 35?

Scratch any one of somebody under 30 these days and they'll tell you the
Pacific solution is necessary.

Ok, there is a small faction of youth dissent, but it's nothing like it should
be....


I'll stop now.....


Peace, bells, incense and harikrsna


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From lannet@lannet.com.au  Sat Sep  7 13:35:58 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 23:35:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <006401c25656$2e85ebe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209072331190.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote:

> it was discussed on the abc radio about a week ago. evidently it even takes
> money from people via their credit cards. when the tickets don't turn up
> they phone the opera house to hear they've been had.
>
> surely the govt can stop this sort of thing-esp in the case of the opera
> house!!

Which government, & which jurisdiction.

Admittedly the registration looks genuine enough until you come to the
technical contact, but anyone can register anything in any name, there
just are _no_ checks.  They have only done the registration for 1 year so
they look to have made their dough by 17 Jan.

Registrant:
          Sydney Opera House Trust
          Bennelong Point
          Sydney, New South Wales  AU
          2000

          Registrar: NameSecure.com
          Domain: SYDNEYOPERA.ORG
          Created on 01-17-2002
          Expires on 01-17-2003

          Administrative Contact:
          Web  Host
          Phone: 61 2 9250 7466
          E-mail: info@sydneyopera.org

          Technical Contact:
          Namesecure Inc.
          Phone: 703-925-6988
          E-mail: support@namesecure.com

          Name Servers:
          DNS1.NAMESECURE.COM            216.136.133.88
          DNS2.NAMESECURE.COM            63.168.49.34


>
> peace & love
>
> (i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the hope
> that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the shrub
> needs it to get re-elected!!)
> ************************************
> Ann Moffatt
> EXoCaT Pty Ltd
> 49 Raintree Avenue
> BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
> tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
> fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
> ***********************************
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stewart carter" <mail@ecommercereport.com.au>
> To: <DEFANGED_link@www.anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:35 PM
> Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
>
>
> > Linkers,
> >
> > I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day and
> > when I went to www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus site appears to be still
> > be in operation.
> >
> > The 'official' site is, of course, at www.soh.nsw.gov.au
> >
> > I'm told that a fellow "reptile of the press" reported on it recently.
> >
> > Does anyone have any clues on whom, or where?
> >
> >
> > Stewart Carter
> > eCommerce Report
> > www.ecommercereport.com.au
> > Ph 03 9347 5254 or mob 0411 477 149
> >
> > ----------
> > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From lannet@lannet.com.au  Sat Sep  7 14:18:08 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 00:18:08 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209080017260.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Rachel Polanskis wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote:
>
> > peace & love
> >
> > (i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the hope
> > that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the shrub
> > needs it to get re-elected!!)
>
> Trouble is, most of this current generation of kids that are the same age now as
> the 60's generation was then, couldn't give a sh*t about peace and love.
>
> This current lot are all conservatives and seem hell bent on continuing to
> vote conservative govts into power.   Just look at little Johnny in the
> playground getting mobbed by schoolgirls in all the recent photo opportunities.
>
> Then you look at someone like John Brogden (NSW state lib leader) who has often
> been accused of being "born 40" - he's 36 or something......
>
> Where is all the student activism?  Why is it all the union activists I've
> seen recently are all over 35?
>
> Scratch any one of somebody under 30 these days and they'll tell you the
> Pacific solution is necessary.
>
> Ok, there is a small faction of youth dissent, but it's nothing like it should
> be....

Unfortunately most of them are in "Rent-A-Mob"

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From jmorris@intercode.com.au  Sat Sep  7 14:45:10 2002
From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 00:45:10 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209080017260.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209080035120.14798-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au>

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Rachel Polanskis wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately most of them are in "Rent-A-Mob"
> 

Most?  How do you figure that?


- James
-- 
James Morris
<jmorris@intercode.com.au>


----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From darius@obsidian.com.au  Sat Sep  7 14:48:25 2002
From: darius@obsidian.com.au (KevinL)
Date: 08 Sep 2002 00:48:25 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
Message-ID: <1031410106.6608.483.camel@ufo>

On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 23:17, Rachel Polanskis wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote:
> 
> > peace & love
> >
> > (i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the hope
> > that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the shrub
> > needs it to get re-elected!!)
> 
> Trouble is, most of this current generation of kids that are the same age now as
> the 60's generation was then, couldn't give a sh*t about peace and love.

*ahem*  And most of the people that were peace and love-ites back then
are now board members, ceo's, and the like (or were during the wonderful
'80s/'90s).

Something went wrong somewhere along the line.  If the generation back
then was so strong in it's ability to change the political direction of
the world, why has that strength vanished as those people have moved
into the age and the positions of power themselves?

It's not all "the youth of today" that have stopped caring.

KJL
(my guess:  it's hard to be a revolutionary when you're comfortably
well-off, or when you're working 9 to 5 to stay comfortable.  And it's
really easy to end up "bum up, head down" doing the best you can to keep
your little corner of the world right, and lose sight of the big picture
- the stuff that used to matter.)

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From stephen@melbpc.org.au  Sat Sep  7 15:13:06 2002
From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 01:13:06 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020907173352.02866070@mail.sprintsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Version.32.20020908003332.0122eab0@popa.melbpc.org.au>

Hi Stewart and all ..

At 05:35 PM 7/09/2002, stewart carter wrote:

> I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day
> and when I went to <http://www.sydneyopera.org/>www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus
site appears
> to be still be in operation. The 'official' site is, of course, at 
> <http://www.soh.nsw.gov.au/>www.soh.nsw.gov.au Does anyone have any clues on
> whom, or where? Stewart Carter

Peter wrote to Link last week of a smh report, and now we have three
web addresses, with the same content, to choose from.  How excellent. 

At 09:00 AM 29/08/2002 , Peter Batchelor forwarded: [to Link]

> You and your partner are done up to the nines for a night out
> at the opera, ballet or theatre.
>...
> The thieves copy official Web sites of premier venues to almost
> every detail, including theatre layouts and restaurant information,
> and constantly update shows. The crucial difference is the scam
> site has its own credit card booking set-up, so your money goes
> directly into their account.
>
> The bogus site for Sydney appears as
<http://www.sydneyopera.org/>www.sydneyopera.org -
> as opposed to the genuine site,
<http://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/>www.sydneyoperahouse.com
> But the outfit has created 23 sites mirroring opera houses in
> Europe, including Paris and Vienna's.
><http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/28/1030053076045.html>http://www.s
mh.com.au/articles/2002/08/28/1030053076045.html
>
> --

Chees all ..
Stephen Loosley
Melbourne, Australia

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sat Sep  7 22:12:22 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 08:12:22 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC2E@EXCHANGE_AU>

The same scam was pulled on the Rugby World Cup. You can get the scam site
as number one on the Google search list if you use the right terms.

RC

[Responding to Greg's crack about using Google. I know journalists who can't
search either ASIC or the various patents offices. Maybe the Link Institute
should create an uber search engine especially for the press...]

-----Original Message-----
From: stewart carter
To: link@www.anu.edu.au
Sent: 9/7/02 5:35 PM
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site

Linkers,

I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day and
when I went to www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus site appears to be still
be in operation.

The 'official' site is, of course, at www.soh.nsw.gov.au

I'm told that a fellow "reptile of the press" reported on it recently.

Does anyone have any clues on whom, or where?


Stewart Carter
eCommerce Report
www.ecommercereport.com.au
Ph 03 9347 5254 or mob 0411 477 149

----------
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----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sat Sep  7 22:05:50 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 08:05:50 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC2C@EXCHANGE_AU>

>Admittedly the registration looks genuine enough until you come to the
>technical contact, but anyone can register anything in any name, there
>just are _no_ checks. 

Yep. When Mark Foys was registered a couple of years back, by someone who
later lost the domain in a court battle, I was interested to notice that the
address given by the registrant was at Mark Foys House in Artarmon. Of
course, not even an address is checked when the registry is in America.

RC

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Lowndes
To: Ann Moffatt
Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au; stewart carter
Sent: 9/7/02 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote:

> it was discussed on the abc radio about a week ago. evidently it even
takes
> money from people via their credit cards. when the tickets don't turn
up
> they phone the opera house to hear they've been had.
>
> surely the govt can stop this sort of thing-esp in the case of the
opera
> house!!

Which government, & which jurisdiction.

Admittedly the registration looks genuine enough until you come to the
technical contact, but anyone can register anything in any name, there
just are _no_ checks.  They have only done the registration for 1 year
so
they look to have made their dough by 17 Jan.

Registrant:
          Sydney Opera House Trust
          Bennelong Point
          Sydney, New South Wales  AU
          2000

          Registrar: NameSecure.com
          Domain: SYDNEYOPERA.ORG
          Created on 01-17-2002
          Expires on 01-17-2003

          Administrative Contact:
          Web  Host
          Phone: 61 2 9250 7466
          E-mail: info@sydneyopera.org

          Technical Contact:
          Namesecure Inc.
          Phone: 703-925-6988
          E-mail: support@namesecure.com

          Name Servers:
          DNS1.NAMESECURE.COM            216.136.133.88
          DNS2.NAMESECURE.COM            63.168.49.34


>
> peace & love
>
> (i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the
hope
> that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the
shrub
> needs it to get re-elected!!)
> ************************************
> Ann Moffatt
> EXoCaT Pty Ltd
> 49 Raintree Avenue
> BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
> tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
> fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
> ***********************************
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stewart carter" <mail@ecommercereport.com.au>
> To: <DEFANGED_link@www.anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:35 PM
> Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
>
>
> > Linkers,
> >
> > I was told about a bogus Sydney Opera House site the other day and
> > when I went to www.sydneyopera.org, the bogus site appears to be
still
> > be in operation.
> >
> > The 'official' site is, of course, at www.soh.nsw.gov.au
> >
> > I'm told that a fellow "reptile of the press" reported on it
recently.
> >
> > Does anyone have any clues on whom, or where?
> >
> >
> > Stewart Carter
> > eCommerce Report
> > www.ecommercereport.com.au
> > Ph 03 9347 5254 or mob 0411 477 149
> >
> > ----------
> > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sat Sep  7 22:09:12 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 08:09:12 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] NT Govt outsourcing policy a shambles
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC2D@EXCHANGE_AU>

A remark:
Okay, businesspeople can be expected to make the self-serving statement that
they are the only ones who can make any decision about anything; that's one
of the myths they peddle to try and get rid of government oversight of their
activities.

But it's one of >those< statements: anyone can make it at anytime, and
nobody challenges it.

Surely in an economy beset by OneTel, HIH, Enron, WorldCon and a squillion
smaller, petty ripoffs, we could dispense with the mythology of the
all-knowing, all-powerful 'business decision maker'?

Richard 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Whitaker
To: Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Cc: Link
Sent: 9/7/02 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: [LINK] NT Govt outsourcing policy a shambles

At 03:57 PM 6/09/02 +1000, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:
>"The government is full of people who aren't businesspeople in their
own
>right, but who are making business decisions," said Hodges.

This is also a weird comment.  It's not just a lack of business skills
or 
IT skills.  It's a problem of a lack of an ability to put the two
together 
from a public good position and stand one's ground against unscrupulous 
marketing staff of the vendors.  It's an inability to read and trust 
commissioned expert reports of people who are disinterested in the
agendas 
of those who stand to benefit from the decision.

I always wonder why there is this thought that Ministers are the ones
who 
know any of this stuff any way. [Do we really think David Kemp knows any

thing about the environment in his own right?]  I was pleased to see in
the 
report that the department staff are also being changed.  My guess is
that 
the political agendas and department staff ambitions are what gets 
governments into these terrible positions.  I'm not knocking all public 
servants or political minders.  Some of my best friends fit in those 
categories.  But you gotta admit, there are holes in the process
somewhere 
to have so many examples of this sort out there.

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Sat Sep  7 22:02:04 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 08:02:04 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020907205529.8237A-100000@inspired.net.au>
References: <006401c25656$2e85ebe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908080148.0213bd00@pop.primenet.com>

At 08:58 PM 7/09/02 +1000, karl@inspired.net.au wrote:
>surely the gov't shouldn't need to do much about this...
>
>surely the people who do get sucked in contact their bank and request a
>credit card chargeback - for services paid for and not supplied?

But shouldn't the police do something?  Like stop the fraud?

JW


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From annm@exocat.com.au  Sat Sep  7 23:36:47 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 09:36:47 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au> <1031410106.6608.483.camel@ufo>
Message-ID: <00a901c256c7$72fd9fe0$d8218790@telstra.com>

kevin wrote

" Something went wrong somewhere along the line.  If the generation back
 then was so strong in it's ability to change the political direction of
 the world, why has that strength vanished as those people have moved
 into the age and the positions of power themselves?

 It's not all "the youth of today" that have stopped caring."

good point kevin, but the 60s children are not those i power now, most of us
are now over 60. those in power now are our children who haven't EXPERIENCED
anything but peace. they are the ones who seem to want to live on the edge.

also, we weren't in power in the 60s but were the youngs protesting against
those in power. as rachel said-where are the youngs now, the 16-30yr olds?

peace & love

annm

************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "KevinL" <darius@obsidian.com.au>
To: <grove@zeta.org.au>
Cc: <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site


> On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 23:17, Rachel Polanskis wrote:
> > On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Ann Moffatt wrote:
> >
> > > peace & love
> > >
> > > (i'm brushing up my old 60s sign off on all my ems letters etc in the
hope
> > > that it does something to stop the impending war but i doubt it. the
shrub
> > > needs it to get re-elected!!)
> >
> > Trouble is, most of this current generation of kids that are the same
age now as
> > the 60's generation was then, couldn't give a sh*t about peace and love.
>
> *ahem*  And most of the people that were peace and love-ites back then
> are now board members, ceo's, and the like (or were during the wonderful
> '80s/'90s).
>
> Something went wrong somewhere along the line.  If the generation back
> then was so strong in it's ability to change the political direction of
> the world, why has that strength vanished as those people have moved
> into the age and the positions of power themselves?
>
> It's not all "the youth of today" that have stopped caring.
>
> KJL
> (my guess:  it's hard to be a revolutionary when you're comfortably
> well-off, or when you're working 9 to 5 to stay comfortable.  And it's
> really easy to end up "bum up, head down" doing the best you can to keep
> your little corner of the world right, and lose sight of the big picture
> - the stuff that used to matter.)
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
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From cas@taz.net.au  Sun Sep  8 00:43:51 2002
From: cas@taz.net.au (Craig Sanders)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 10:43:51 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <00a901c256c7$72fd9fe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au> <1031410106.6608.483.camel@ufo> <00a901c256c7$72fd9fe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <20020908004351.GC20692@taz.net.au>

On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 09:36:47AM +1000, Ann Moffatt wrote:
> also, we weren't in power in the 60s but were the youngs protesting
> against those in power. as rachel said-where are the youngs now, the
> 16-30yr olds?

they are the terrorists who go around stabbing horses.

everyone knows that a horse was stabbed by protestors at the S11 protest
2 years ago.  they heard the rumours on the news.  they noted that the
police never denied it, so it must be true.  the trouble is, it didn't
happen.  but facts are irrelevent in a case like this.

ask anyone who *wasn't* at S11 or any of the other anti-globalisation
protests, they'll tell you what violent & evil thugs the protesters are.
they'll moan sympathetically about "the poor horse".  they know, they
saw "journalists" talking about it on the TV.  some of the protestors
deliberately threw themselves under police horses and even viciously
assaulted police batons with their heads, stomachs, elbows, knees,
backs, kidneys etc.

control over television "news" is far tighter and slicker these days.
the public may be a lot more cynical than they were in the 60s, but so
are the media manipulators.

craig

-- 
craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>

Fabricati Diem, PVNC.
 -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch
----------
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From karl@inspired.net.au  Sun Sep  8 01:51:36 2002
From: karl@inspired.net.au (karl@inspired.net.au)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 11:51:36 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908080148.0213bd00@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020908114856.19506A-100000@inspired.net.au>



On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote:

> At 08:58 PM 7/09/02 +1000, karl@inspired.net.au wrote:
> >surely the gov't shouldn't need to do much about this...
> >
> >surely the people who do get sucked in contact their bank and request a
> >credit card chargeback - for services paid for and not supplied?
> 
> But shouldn't the police do something?  Like stop the fraud?
> 
> JW
> 

Jan, Linkers,

very true, the police fraud squad should be contacted by a person who has
been ripped off by this site. Crimestoppers would be a good place
to start.
Further if every person who was ripped off refused the charge on their
credit card, then obviously the scammer would just give up, as they would
not be making money, or at least have their merchant facilities cancelled
by their bank.

Regards
Karl
=8)





----------
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Sun Sep  8 01:53:07 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 11:53:07 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908080148.0213bd00@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209081151011.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Jan Whitaker wrote:

> At 08:58 PM 7/09/02 +1000, karl@inspired.net.au wrote:
> >surely the gov't shouldn't need to do much about this...
> >
> >surely the people who do get sucked in contact their bank and request a
> >credit card chargeback - for services paid for and not supplied?
>
> But shouldn't the police do something?  Like stop the fraud?

Perhaps, but do you know whether the registrant is an Australian or what.
Basically this is international fraud, not a local affair, and I would
prefer that Australian police spent their time removing pack rapists from
the community...

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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From darius@obsidian.com.au  Sun Sep  8 04:50:24 2002
From: darius@obsidian.com.au (KevinL)
Date: 08 Sep 2002 14:50:24 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <00a901c256c7$72fd9fe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
	<1031410106.6608.483.camel@ufo> 
	<00a901c256c7$72fd9fe0$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <1031460625.988.231.camel@ufo>

I'd agree, except for two things:

1) The average age of politicians and CEO's and their ilk tends toward
the higher numbers - often even past "retirement age".

2) The 60's "time in the sun" wrt power would have been around the 80's
and 90's.  They weren't exactly boom years for social and environmental
awareness in corporates or politics.

As a child of a younger generation, I'm sick of hearing how the 60's
generation was so full of "peace and love".  Woodstock, the poster-child
event for that generation, was a massive rip-off by the people who
attended (the organisers and bands got shafted by a large number of
freeloaders), and those values that appeared to be so prolific when the
60's generation was young seem to have been replaced by a "greed is
good" motto once they reached earning capacity.

Smells more like a bunch of people out for what they can get (the same
way people have always been), than a new enlightened era, to me.  I'll
grant there were people who were honest in their beliefs, and stuck to
them - but I don't accept that there were any more then than there are
now.  Perhaps it's just that the media was focussing on them then, where
it focusses on different things now - perhaps you were just all sold the
idea of being revolutionary, the same way Woodstock and the Beatles were
marketing triumphs.  Certainly, if you look at things like Kyoto and
Tampa and "the war on terrorism" (Bush was born in 46, btw, which would
put him squarely in the "flower power" generation), it doesn't look like
there's been a shift in power or attitudes as the flower power
generation came into control.

KevinL

On Sun, 2002-09-08 at 09:36, Ann Moffatt wrote:
> kevin wrote
> 
> " Something went wrong somewhere along the line.  If the generation back
>  then was so strong in it's ability to change the political direction of
>  the world, why has that strength vanished as those people have moved
>  into the age and the positions of power themselves?
> 
>  It's not all "the youth of today" that have stopped caring."
> 
> good point kevin, but the 60s children are not those i power now, most of us
> are now over 60. those in power now are our children who haven't EXPERIENCED
> anything but peace. they are the ones who seem to want to live on the edge.
> 
> also, we weren't in power in the 60s but were the youngs protesting against
> those in power. as rachel said-where are the youngs now, the 16-30yr olds?
> 
> peace & love
> 
> annm

----------
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From annm@exocat.com.au  Sun Sep  8 12:50:46 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 22:50:46 +1000
Subject: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC03@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <007101c25736$5d4eefe0$d8218790@telstra.com>

richard said

" For years, a visit by a high-ranking Intel executive is used to create a
"Silicon Plant for Australia?" story. Then the executive arrives, says no,
and this is the resulting headline. "

i don't think that is true. my company did all intel's certification
training in oz & nz & i attended many briefings with top intel people all
over the world. at one stage i am convinced that intel was v interested in
setting up a fab plant here. the government incentives weren't good enough.

peace & love

annm

************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chirgwin, Richard" <Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au>
To: <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 8:15 AM
Subject: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...


> Oh, no, not again...
>
>
http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5020510%5E15317%5E%5Enbv%5E1
> 5306,00.html
> >Intel spurns fabrication here
> >Simon Hayes
> >SEPTEMBER 03, 2002 INTEL boss Craig Barrett has pronounced a death
sentence
>
> >on Australia's electronics manufacturing industry, calling for the
country
> to
> >focus instead of software and product development.
> >
> >Formally killing off any hope of a local microprocessor manufacturing
> facility, Dr
> >Barrett said Australia could not hope to compete against low-wage
> countries.
> >The site of the flagged $US6 billion ($11.1 billion) fab plant remains a
> mystery
> >after an Asia-Pacific tour that has taken in India, Malaysia, Vietnam and
> the
> >Philippines.
>
> For years, a visit by a high-ranking Intel executive is used to create a
> "Silicon Plant for Australia?" story. Then the executive arrives, says no,
> and this is the resulting headline.
>
> There was never any prospect that this visit would be any different: Craig
> Barrett wasn't coming here to announce a brand-new chip plant for
Australia;
> the only thing fabricated was the possibility that he would.
>
> However: between yesterday and today, the electronics manufacturing
industry
> didn't change simply on the basis of Intel's non-decision about a
non-story.
> It was small and specialised last week, and will be small and specialised
> next week.
>
> [There is even some small and specialised chip fab here, but don't tell
> anyone...]
>
> A favourite way to fill space with no discernable effort is the "denial
> story". "This might be true" followed by "he denied it". But really, every
> couple of years the SAME denial story gets tedious!
>
> Richard C
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

----------
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From rayclark3@email.com  Sun Sep  8 20:29:53 2002
From: rayclark3@email.com (MR RAYMOUND CLARK)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 20:29:53
Subject: [LINK] INVESTMENT
Message-ID: <200209081829.g88ITpu23918@web.anu.edu.au>

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT.

I am MR RAYMOUND CLARK a native of Cape Town in
South Africa and I am an Executive Accountant with
the
South Africal  DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY ,
CORRENTLY  IN AMSTERDAM ON ONE YEAR STUDY LEAVE.

First and foremost, I apologized using this medium to
reach you for a transaction/business of this
magnitude, but this is due to
Confidentiality and prompt access reposed on this
medium.

I have decided to seek a confidential
co-operation with you in the execution of the deal
described Hereunder for the benefit of all parties
and
hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the
nature of this transaction.

Within the Department of Mining & Natural Resources
where I work as an Executive Accountant and with the
cooperation of four other top officials, we have in
our possession as overdue payment bills totaling
thirty five Million, Five Hundred Thousand U. S.
Dollars ($35,500,000.) which we want to transfer
abroad with the assistance and cooperation of a
foreign company/individual to receive the said fund
on
our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account
to receive such funds. More so, we are handicapped in
the circumstances, as the South Africa Civil Service
Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore
account hence your importance in the whole
transaction.
This amount $35.5m represents the balance of the
total
contract value executed on behalf of my Department by
a foreign contracting firm, which we the officials
over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual
contract
cost have been paid to the original contractor,
leaving the balance in the Tune of the said amount
which we have in principles gotten approval to remit
by Key tested Telegraphic Transfer (K.T.T) to any
foreign bank account you will provide by filing in an
application through the Justice Ministry here in
South Africa for the transfer of rights and privileges
of
the former contractor to you.

I have the authority of my partners involved to
propose that should you be willing to assist us in
the
transaction, your share of the sum will be 25% of the
$35.5 million, 70% for us and 5% for taxation and
miscellaneous expenses. The business itself is 100%
safe, on your part provided you treat it with utmost
secrecy and confidentiality. Also your area of
specialization is not a hindrance to the successful
execution of this transaction. I have reposed my
confidence in you and hope that you will not
disappoint me. Endeavor to contact me immediately on  my
private phone number  31613866332
if you are interested in this deal, this is
to assure you that my partners and myself are in a
position to make the payment of this claim possible
provided you can give us a very strong Assurance and
guarantee that our share will be secured and please
remember to treat this matter as very confidential
matter, because we will not comprehend with any form
of exposure as we are still in active Government
Service and remember once again that time is of the
essence in this business.
I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation.

Yours faithfully,

MR RAYMOUND CLARK
reply to :rayclark@email.com



----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From rayclark3@email.com  Sun Sep  8 21:25:54 2002
From: rayclark3@email.com (MR RAYMOUND CLARK)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 21:25:54
Subject: [LINK] INVESTMENT
Message-ID: <200209081925.g88JPtu02290@web.anu.edu.au>

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT.

I am MR RAYMOUND CLARK a native of Cape Town in
South Africa and I am an Executive Accountant with
the
South Africal  DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY ,
CORRENTLY  IN AMSTERDAM ON ONE YEAR STUDY LEAVE.

First and foremost, I apologized using this medium to
reach you for a transaction/business of this
magnitude, but this is due to
Confidentiality and prompt access reposed on this
medium.

I have decided to seek a confidential
co-operation with you in the execution of the deal
described Hereunder for the benefit of all parties
and
hope you will keep it as a top secret because of the
nature of this transaction.

Within the Department of Mining & Natural Resources
where I work as an Executive Accountant and with the
cooperation of four other top officials, we have in
our possession as overdue payment bills totaling
thirty five Million, Five Hundred Thousand U. S.
Dollars ($35,500,000.) which we want to transfer
abroad with the assistance and cooperation of a
foreign company/individual to receive the said fund
on
our behalf or a reliable foreign non-company account
to receive such funds. More so, we are handicapped in
the circumstances, as the South Africa Civil Service
Code of Conduct does not allow us to operate offshore
account hence your importance in the whole
transaction.
This amount $35.5m represents the balance of the
total
contract value executed on behalf of my Department by
a foreign contracting firm, which we the officials
over-invoiced deliberately. Though the actual
contract
cost have been paid to the original contractor,
leaving the balance in the Tune of the said amount
which we have in principles gotten approval to remit
by Key tested Telegraphic Transfer (K.T.T) to any
foreign bank account you will provide by filing in an
application through the Justice Ministry here in
South Africa for the transfer of rights and privileges
of
the former contractor to you.

I have the authority of my partners involved to
propose that should you be willing to assist us in
the
transaction, your share of the sum will be 25% of the
$35.5 million, 70% for us and 5% for taxation and
miscellaneous expenses. The business itself is 100%
safe, on your part provided you treat it with utmost
secrecy and confidentiality. Also your area of
specialization is not a hindrance to the successful
execution of this transaction. I have reposed my
confidence in you and hope that you will not
disappoint me. Endeavor to contact me immediately on  my
private phone number  31613866332
if you are interested in this deal, this is
to assure you that my partners and myself are in a
position to make the payment of this claim possible
provided you can give us a very strong Assurance and
guarantee that our share will be secured and please
remember to treat this matter as very confidential
matter, because we will not comprehend with any form
of exposure as we are still in active Government
Service and remember once again that time is of the
essence in this business.
I wait in anticipation of your fullest co-operation.

Yours faithfully,

MR RAYMOUND CLARK
reply to :rayclark@email.com



----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Sun Sep  8 20:56:54 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 06:56:54 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209081151011.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020908080148.0213bd00@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020909065104.00aa6ce0@pop.primenet.com>

At 11:53 AM 8/09/02 +1000, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> > But shouldn't the police do something?  Like stop the fraud?
>
>Perhaps, but do you know whether the registrant is an Australian or what.
>Basically this is international fraud, not a local affair, and I would
>prefer that Australian police spent their time removing pack rapists from
>the community...

But the domain is .au, so there are consequences here.  This is an issue I 
raised in the code of practice panel for auDA over the last 3-4 months and 
never received an answer:  can .au be registered by people who are outside 
Australia?

Howard, I asked:
> > Is the Registrar listed?  This is obviously a case of the registrar not
> > getting bone fide info from the applicant.

you sent this info:

> > >Registrant:
> > >           Sydney Opera House Trust
> > >           Bennelong Point
> > >           Sydney, New South Wales  AU
> > >           2000
> > >
> > >           Registrar: NameSecure.com
>Registrant:
>           VeriSign Registrar
>           VeriSign, Inc
>           21355 Ridgetop Circle, Lakeside 3
>           Dulles, VA  US
>           20166
>           Registrar: NameSecure.com
>           Domain: NAMESECURE.COM
>           Created on 10-06-1997
>           Expires on 10-09-2011

thanks, Howard.  How is it that a US group was able to register a .au 
address?  Note the date. This has been in the works for awhile if this is 
the whois info for the bogus site and it hasn't been hijacked.  Is this the 
info for the bogus site?

that's a different date from the one you sent before:
>           Registrar: NameSecure.com
>           Domain: SYDNEYOPERA.ORG
>           Created on 01-17-2002
>           Expires on 01-17-2003
>
>           Administrative Contact:
>           Web  Host
>           Phone: 61 2 9250 7466
>           E-mail: info@sydneyopera.org


I'm confused now.  Where does any liability and jurisdiction lie for these 
sorts of things? And what good is auDA if this sort of false registering 
take place from a US based registrar?

It's things like this that will make people withdraw from e-bus sites.  Yes 
pack rape is terrible, yes police should 'do something(TM)' about it.  But 
there are lots of things that police should do something about, and e-fraud 
is on their agenda.

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sun Sep  8 21:39:55 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:39:55 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC30@EXCHANGE_AU>

Ann,
>intel was v interested in setting up a fab plant here. the government 
>incentives weren't good enough.
Maybe so ... but the recyclability of the story in the media is another
issue entirely. It's just freebie copy, in that sense; no effort, no
commitment and no serious research required.

It's a couple of years since the same issue was last debated on Link;
unfortunately the Panoptic search engine seems broken right now, so I can't
set a date to it (even single-word searches on Link were returning zero
results).

But read again what you wrote, Ann, and compare it to the story in the Oz.
We get "Our R&D is bigger than Australia's" from Craig Barrett, but if we
want an Intel plant here, can we please hand over some tax dollars. I never
was convinced this was a great idea. 

We have had silicon fab in Australia; plants that come immediately to mind
(others will occur to those with better memories):
- Fairchild in Melbourne - ended up with either Motorola or National
Semiconductor when Fairchild crashed in the early 1980s. Closed towards mid-
to late-80s.
- AWA Microelectronics in Homebush. Sold to a US company in the early 90s;
eventually closed, I think.
- Philips' Hendon plant in South Australia; unsure when this was closed (or
is it still operating?).
- One whose name I can't remember, but it constructed devices for the
Australia Telescope.

I suspect there's still a certain amount of local fab for prototyping and
defence work. And there's a very small fab at CSIRO Radiophysics in North
Ryde for constructing prototype MMICs. Are there others?

Certainly, a large scale silicon fab might be good for the national ego; but
it wouldn't necessarily herald a new dawn of technology. Once you're away
from the research facility, silicon fab focuses on the capital equipment
rather than the operator skills.

Richard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ann Moffatt [mailto:annm@exocat.com.au]
> Sent: Sunday, 8 September 2002 22:51
> To: Chirgwin, Richard; link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: Re: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
> 
> 
> richard said
> 
> " For years, a visit by a high-ranking Intel executive is 
> used to create a
> "Silicon Plant for Australia?" story. Then the executive 
> arrives, says no,
> and this is the resulting headline. "
> 
> i don't think that is true. my company did all intel's certification
> training in oz & nz & i attended many briefings with top 
> intel people all
> over the world. at one stage i am convinced that intel was v 
> interested in
> setting up a fab plant here. the government incentives 
> weren't good enough.
> 
> peace & love
> 
> annm
> 
> ************************************
> Ann Moffatt
> EXoCaT Pty Ltd
> 49 Raintree Avenue
> BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
> tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
> fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
> ***********************************
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chirgwin, Richard" <Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au>
> To: <link@www.anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 8:15 AM
> Subject: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
> 
> 
> > Oh, no, not again...
> >
> >
> http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5020510%5E1531
> 7%5E%5Enbv%5E1
> > 5306,00.html
> > >Intel spurns fabrication here
> > >Simon Hayes
> > >SEPTEMBER 03, 2002 INTEL boss Craig Barrett has pronounced a death
> sentence
> >
> > >on Australia's electronics manufacturing industry, calling for the
> country
> > to
> > >focus instead of software and product development.
> > >
> > >Formally killing off any hope of a local microprocessor 
> manufacturing
> > facility, Dr
> > >Barrett said Australia could not hope to compete against low-wage
> > countries.
> > >The site of the flagged $US6 billion ($11.1 billion) fab 
> plant remains a
> > mystery
> > >after an Asia-Pacific tour that has taken in India, 
> Malaysia, Vietnam and
> > the
> > >Philippines.
> >
> > For years, a visit by a high-ranking Intel executive is 
> used to create a
> > "Silicon Plant for Australia?" story. Then the executive 
> arrives, says no,
> > and this is the resulting headline.
> >
> > There was never any prospect that this visit would be any 
> different: Craig
> > Barrett wasn't coming here to announce a brand-new chip plant for
> Australia;
> > the only thing fabricated was the possibility that he would.
> >
> > However: between yesterday and today, the electronics manufacturing
> industry
> > didn't change simply on the basis of Intel's non-decision about a
> non-story.
> > It was small and specialised last week, and will be small 
> and specialised
> > next week.
> >
> > [There is even some small and specialised chip fab here, 
> but don't tell
> > anyone...]
> >
> > A favourite way to fill space with no discernable effort is 
> the "denial
> > story". "This might be true" followed by "he denied it". 
> But really, every
> > couple of years the SAME denial story gets tedious!
> >
> > Richard C
> > ----------
> > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> >
> 
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sun Sep  8 21:52:05 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:52:05 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Here is a first: unknown attack vector can affect most
	 MS Windows  Platforms
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC31@EXCHANGE_AU>

It got corrected ... from The Register:
>Well, it turns out that the original bulletin was so completely 
>wrong that MS has replaced it. And those early news stories have been 
>quietly updated to reflect reality, without actually copping to the 
>fact that they'd been misleading. 
>
>It's got a name, finally. It's called the "mIRC Trojan-Related Attack." It 
>turns out that Win-2K Server is the only product presently known to be 
>vulnerable, and then only if the latest patches and hotfixes haven't been 
>installed. 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/27007.html

Richard C
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Welykochy [mailto:rick@praxis.com.au]
> Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2002 18:51
> To: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: [LINK] Here is a first: unknown attack vector can affect most
> MS Windows Platforms
> 
> 
> <http://www.techtv.com/news/security/story/0,24195,3398556,00.html>
> 
> Mysterious Hack Attack Strikes Windows Users
> The source does not appear to be a worm or a virus.
> 
> By Becky Worley, Tech Live
> Print Printer-friendly format
> Email Email this story
> 
> Microsoft posted a mysterious alert on its product support 
> services (PSS) page.
> <http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q328691>
> 
> The alert warns of a hack attack that locks out users, 
> installs backdoor programs, and
> gives an attacker remote access via IRC. Tonight's "Tech 
> Live" reports.
> 
> Some IT managers say the hack is also installing a 
> key-logging program onto infected
> computers. Oddly, the source of this attack doesn't appear to 
> be a worm or a virus.
> But the sudden increase in reports of the attack has 
> convinced the PSS that the attack
> is automated.
> 
> Since the method of infection is still unknown, Microsoft 
> says antivirus programs do not
> protect users from the attack. 
> Here's a list of affected systems:
> 
>     * Microsoft Windows 98
>     * Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition
>     * Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition
>     * Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 4.0
>     * Microsoft Windows NT Server 4.0
>     * Microsoft Windows NT Server, Enterprise Edition 4.0
>     * Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
>     * Microsoft Windows 2000 Server
>     * Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server
>     * Microsoft Windows 2000 Datacenter Server
>     * Microsoft Windows XP 64-bit Edition
>     * Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
>     * Microsoft Windows XP Professional
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> 
> cheers
> rickw
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _________________________________
> Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services
> 
> linux: because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
>   (ksh@cis.ufl.edu put this on Tshirts in '93)
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From annm@exocat.com.au  Sun Sep  8 23:13:06 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:13:06 +1000
Subject: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC30@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <001101c2578d$4daec5e0$d8218790@telstra.com>

richard wrote

 "Certainly, a large scale silicon fab might be good for the national ego;
but
 it wouldn't necessarily herald a new dawn of technology. Once you're away
from the research facility, silicon fab focuses on the capital equipment
rather than the operator skills."

i'm well aware of what a full scale fab would do for australia and of the
numerous small scale, often special purpose, chip plants we've had in oz.

intel was planning to invest $US6 billion. kennet was offering cheap power
in victoria. ( i know he has plenty to give away.) the proposed fab would
only employ 30 local people-plus several intel specialists from other parts
of the world. the fed govt used the argument that there were too few local
jobs created to justify its lack of support.

however, chips would have been considerably cheaper for australian computer
manufacturers. (mainly assembly only plants.) at the time i am
recalling-late 90s-there were 1200 australian companies buying chips from
intel for 'computer manufacture'. many of these companies were small but
from little thingz big thingz grow. many were run by asian immigrants who
brought skills from factories in taiwan, singapore or malaysia.

i believe if we had established an intel fab here, not only would we have
put a 'stake in the ground' showing oz had a fab but we would not have to
import chips. computers would have been cheaper for australian business & we
would have been able to export more computers to the asian markets
especially china.

additionally, as with ibm under pfd, we could have attracted intel research
here at a later stage.

i'm well aware that the price of a chip-bought at wholesale, bulk buy,
rates- is very small in relation to the overall price of a pc. but i believe
that many of the pc component parts like motherboards & casing etc would
have been manufactured here too rather than importing them from asia as we
do now.

thus i DO think an intel fab here in oz would have been good for the
country.

peace & love

annm



************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chirgwin, Richard" <Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au>
To: <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: RE: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...


> Ann,
> >intel was v interested in setting up a fab plant here. the government
> >incentives weren't good enough.
> Maybe so ... but the recyclability of the story in the media is another
> issue entirely. It's just freebie copy, in that sense; no effort, no
> commitment and no serious research required.
>
> It's a couple of years since the same issue was last debated on Link;
> unfortunately the Panoptic search engine seems broken right now, so I
can't
> set a date to it (even single-word searches on Link were returning zero
> results).
>
> But read again what you wrote, Ann, and compare it to the story in the Oz.
> We get "Our R&D is bigger than Australia's" from Craig Barrett, but if we
> want an Intel plant here, can we please hand over some tax dollars. I
never
> was convinced this was a great idea.
>
> We have had silicon fab in Australia; plants that come immediately to mind
> (others will occur to those with better memories):
> - Fairchild in Melbourne - ended up with either Motorola or National
> Semiconductor when Fairchild crashed in the early 1980s. Closed towards
mid-
> to late-80s.
> - AWA Microelectronics in Homebush. Sold to a US company in the early 90s;
> eventually closed, I think.
> - Philips' Hendon plant in South Australia; unsure when this was closed
(or
> is it still operating?).
> - One whose name I can't remember, but it constructed devices for the
> Australia Telescope.
>
> I suspect there's still a certain amount of local fab for prototyping and
> defence work. And there's a very small fab at CSIRO Radiophysics in North
> Ryde for constructing prototype MMICs. Are there others?
>
> Certainly, a large scale silicon fab might be good for the national ego;
but
> it wouldn't necessarily herald a new dawn of technology. Once you're away
> from the research facility, silicon fab focuses on the capital equipment
> rather than the operator skills.
>
> Richard
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ann Moffatt [mailto:annm@exocat.com.au]
> > Sent: Sunday, 8 September 2002 22:51
> > To: Chirgwin, Richard; link@www.anu.edu.au
> > Subject: Re: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
> >
> >
> > richard said
> >
> > " For years, a visit by a high-ranking Intel executive is
> > used to create a
> > "Silicon Plant for Australia?" story. Then the executive
> > arrives, says no,
> > and this is the resulting headline. "
> >
> > i don't think that is true. my company did all intel's certification
> > training in oz & nz & i attended many briefings with top
> > intel people all
> > over the world. at one stage i am convinced that intel was v
> > interested in
> > setting up a fab plant here. the government incentives
> > weren't good enough.
> >
> > peace & love
> >
> > annm
> >
> > ************************************
> > Ann Moffatt
> > EXoCaT Pty Ltd
> > 49 Raintree Avenue
> > BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
> > tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
> > fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
> > ***********************************
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chirgwin, Richard" <Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au>
> > To: <link@www.anu.edu.au>
> > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 8:15 AM
> > Subject: [LINK] No Intel Plant for Au? Surprise...
> >
> >
> > > Oh, no, not again...
> > >
> > >
> > http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5020510%5E1531
> > 7%5E%5Enbv%5E1
> > > 5306,00.html
> > > >Intel spurns fabrication here
> > > >Simon Hayes
> > > >SEPTEMBER 03, 2002 INTEL boss Craig Barrett has pronounced a death
> > sentence
> > >
> > > >on Australia's electronics manufacturing industry, calling for the
> > country
> > > to
> > > >focus instead of software and product development.
> > > >
> > > >Formally killing off any hope of a local microprocessor
> > manufacturing
> > > facility, Dr
> > > >Barrett said Australia could not hope to compete against low-wage
> > > countries.
> > > >The site of the flagged $US6 billion ($11.1 billion) fab
> > plant remains a
> > > mystery
> > > >after an Asia-Pacific tour that has taken in India,
> > Malaysia, Vietnam and
> > > the
> > > >Philippines.
> > >
> > > For years, a visit by a high-ranking Intel executive is
> > used to create a
> > > "Silicon Plant for Australia?" story. Then the executive
> > arrives, says no,
> > > and this is the resulting headline.
> > >
> > > There was never any prospect that this visit would be any
> > different: Craig
> > > Barrett wasn't coming here to announce a brand-new chip plant for
> > Australia;
> > > the only thing fabricated was the possibility that he would.
> > >
> > > However: between yesterday and today, the electronics manufacturing
> > industry
> > > didn't change simply on the basis of Intel's non-decision about a
> > non-story.
> > > It was small and specialised last week, and will be small
> > and specialised
> > > next week.
> > >
> > > [There is even some small and specialised chip fab here,
> > but don't tell
> > > anyone...]
> > >
> > > A favourite way to fill space with no discernable effort is
> > the "denial
> > > story". "This might be true" followed by "he denied it".
> > But really, every
> > > couple of years the SAME denial story gets tedious!
> > >
> > > Richard C
> > > ----------
> > > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> > >
> >
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From gordonkeith@acslink.net.au  Sun Sep  8 23:22:40 2002
From: gordonkeith@acslink.net.au (Gordon Keith)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:22:40 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows
In-Reply-To: <7lnjnush053kpkn34vddi6tdtvbhdg07fs@4ax.com>
References: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209070211460.11269-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209070727140.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au> <7lnjnush053kpkn34vddi6tdtvbhdg07fs@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200209090922.40232.gordonkeith@acslink.net.au>

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002 21:21, Bob Bain wrote:
>  But suggested in the Christian Bible - the cornerstone of Western
> morality.  (Fortunately this hasn't been carried forward to our
> Western democracy legal system):-
>
> "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I
> pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye unto them as is good in
> your eyes, only unto these men do nothing." (Lot speaking to an angry
> mob, Genesis 19:8)"
>
>  Basically - "Don't rape the men.  I have virgin daughters you can
> use"  This has always been a sticky point for me.  It's one of the
> crucial paragraphs that lead me to reject the suggestion I should
> read such books for the "Good News" they contain..

One of reasons I like the bible so much is that it records the truth of 
the situation, not some nice sanitised version. 

It accurately records many of the cultural mores from the time when it 
was written. It does not espouse those as necessarily right behaviour.

Regards
Gordon
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From hartr@interweft.com.au  Sun Sep  8 23:45:57 2002
From: hartr@interweft.com.au (hartr@interweft.com.au)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:45:57 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] An Alternative to Microsoft Gains Support in High Places
In-Reply-To: <20020907093611.A10329@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <200209082346.g88Nk0X22046@bree.inside.interweft.com.au>

On  7 Sep, Danny Yee wrote:
>> > I would like to see organisations such as RedHat, Suse try to join :) -
>> > just stirring the possum.
>  
> hartr@interweft.com.au wrote:
>> It would be extremely hard for Red Hat to join I think, given their very
>> strong commitment to open source (they only release software under an
>> appropriate open source licence). 
> 
>> SuSE might be able to join as it has never had the same level of
>> commitment to open source, having released software under non-open
>> source licences.
>  
> How much software has Microsoft released under a genuine open source
> licence?  Their obvious commitment to proprietary software doesn't
> seem to have stopped them being an advocate of "choice"...

My point was that Red Hat is openly very pro open source (and actively
promotes that as a better mousetrap than proprietary). Given that widely
understood stance, it's unlikely that the Software Choice people would
accept their membership as real...

-- 
Robert Hart					 hartr@interweft.com.au
Strategic IT & open source consulting                +61 (0)438 385 533
Brisbane, Australia			    http://www.interweft.com.au

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Sun Sep  8 23:51:28 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:51:28 +1000 
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC36@EXCHANGE_AU>

Jan,
... the bogus wasn't a .au - it was sydneyopera.org. (However, since
Australians can and do take domains in the US registries, why would it be
any different in reverse?) 

I'm disappointed that the police and media seem to be avoiding naming the
scam sites ... for eg, the rugby fake ticket sites ... surely name-and-shame
would be in the consumers' interests?

Taking the IP address the site comes from for a trace (207.21.244.94) we end
up at www.traveluniverse.org - a site which seems to do remarkably little.
And guess what ... it uses the same registrar, Namesecure.com, as the
sydneyopera.org. Not much else that the cops could use, I guess, except that
traveluniverse refers to someone in the UK.

>Registrant:
>Chen Richard
>34 Tenison Road
>Cambridge, UK  GB
>60559
>Registrar: NameSecure.com
>Domain: TRAVELUNIVERSE.ORG
>Created on 11-07-2001
>Expires on 11-07-2002

Searching on Traveluniverse's hosting company turns up the same registrar
contact. He also lives in Nevada, sorry, Nirvana it seems, but this address
may be less than informative:

>Registrant:
>Wealth Lane
>Wealth Lane
>Nirvana, NY  US
>10000
>
>Registrar: NameSecure.com
>Domain: WITESTAR.COM
>Created on 06-04-2002
>Expires on 06-04-2003
>Administrative Contact:
>Richard Chen
>Phone: 212 665 7956 
>E-mail: richard@witestar.com 

Interstingly, Namesecure's whois makes it look like a subsidiary of
Verisign. This is impossible to verify, because Namesecure's own site
provides almost no corporate information. There's no "About Us" page for
example. 

Gotta go back to the day job now...

Richard Chirgwin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jan Whitaker [mailto:jwhit@primenet.com]
> Sent: Monday, 9 September 2002 06:57
> To: Howard Lowndes
> Cc: link@www.anu.edu.au
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
> 
> 
> At 11:53 AM 8/09/02 +1000, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> > > But shouldn't the police do something?  Like stop the fraud?
> >
> >Perhaps, but do you know whether the registrant is an 
> Australian or what.
> >Basically this is international fraud, not a local affair, 
> and I would
> >prefer that Australian police spent their time removing pack 
> rapists from
> >the community...
> 
> But the domain is .au, so there are consequences here.  This 
> is an issue I 
> raised in the code of practice panel for auDA over the last 
> 3-4 months and 
> never received an answer:  can .au be registered by people 
> who are outside 
> Australia?
> 
> Howard, I asked:
> > > Is the Registrar listed?  This is obviously a case of the 
> registrar not
> > > getting bone fide info from the applicant.
> 
> you sent this info:
> 
> > > >Registrant:
> > > >           Sydney Opera House Trust
> > > >           Bennelong Point
> > > >           Sydney, New South Wales  AU
> > > >           2000
> > > >
> > > >           Registrar: NameSecure.com
> >Registrant:
> >           VeriSign Registrar
> >           VeriSign, Inc
> >           21355 Ridgetop Circle, Lakeside 3
> >           Dulles, VA  US
> >           20166
> >           Registrar: NameSecure.com
> >           Domain: NAMESECURE.COM
> >           Created on 10-06-1997
> >           Expires on 10-09-2011
> 
> thanks, Howard.  How is it that a US group was able to register a .au 
> address?  Note the date. This has been in the works for 
> awhile if this is 
> the whois info for the bogus site and it hasn't been 
> hijacked.  Is this the 
> info for the bogus site?
> 
> that's a different date from the one you sent before:
> >           Registrar: NameSecure.com
> >           Domain: SYDNEYOPERA.ORG
> >           Created on 01-17-2002
> >           Expires on 01-17-2003
> >
> >           Administrative Contact:
> >           Web  Host
> >           Phone: 61 2 9250 7466
> >           E-mail: info@sydneyopera.org
> 
> 
> I'm confused now.  Where does any liability and jurisdiction 
> lie for these 
> sorts of things? And what good is auDA if this sort of false 
> registering 
> take place from a US based registrar?
> 
> It's things like this that will make people withdraw from 
> e-bus sites.  Yes 
> pack rape is terrible, yes police should 'do something(TM)' 
> about it.  But 
> there are lots of things that police should do something 
> about, and e-fraud 
> is on their agenda.
> 
> Jan
> 
> 
> JLWhitaker Associates
> Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
> jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm
> 
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From Stiebritz@ourbrisbane.com  Mon Sep  9 01:08:00 2002
From: Stiebritz@ourbrisbane.com (Stiebritz)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:08:00 +1000
Subject: [LINK] attachment of book promotion
Message-ID: <d3bf5d8386.d8386d3bf5@bigpond.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment


----------------
Get your free email address from www.ourbrisbane.com

                                                                     

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From gu@263.net  Mon Sep  9 05:08:00 2002
From: gu@263.net (gu@263.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:08:00 +0800
Subject: [LINK] =?GB2312?B?obbEp7nt06LT76G3tPLU7NOi0++w18Hs0MK58w==?=
Message-ID: <200209090508.g8957w9w007745@anu.edu.au>

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=  ÂÛ̳վµã£ºhttp://qlong2008.xilubbs.com
=
=====================================
±¾×ÊÁϲÉÓá°±©Á¦ÓªÏú¡±µç×ÓÉÌÎñÍƹãϵͳ·¢²¼


----------
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From puppy@tigersnake.com  Mon Sep  9 06:46:10 2002
From: puppy@tigersnake.com (Ed Parsons)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:46:10 +1200
Subject: [LINK] Dodgy Domain Names Renewals continue
Message-ID: <D399477E-C3BF-11D6-9AC6-003065791AEE@tigersnake.com>

We have all seen letters like this before, this is a new one. It seems 
to be preying on
people who may have been done over by Internet Names Group , does anyone 
know where
Mark Spektor is or what he is doing now ? Is the ACCC still going after 
him ?

For a look at the latest mass mail out by INTERNET REGISTRY PTY LTD see

http://www.scammers.com/index.html

This latest letter was received by a customer of Melbourne IT.


Ed Parsons

----------
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From srh@ozemail.com.au  Mon Sep  9 09:55:42 2002
From: srh@ozemail.com.au (Stephen Hill)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 19:55:42 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows
References: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209070211460.11269-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209070727140.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au> <7lnjnush053kpkn34vddi6tdtvbhdg07fs@4ax.com> <200209090922.40232.gordonkeith@acslink.net.au>
Message-ID: <004d01c257e7$1064d260$15ec223f@net.au>

Sorry to be off topic everyone but I'm with you Gordon.

Bob - you should know that you should never judge a book and its message by
one sentence or paragraph especially when the purpose of such a passage is
to simply demonstrate the sinfulness of man.

Have a go at reading Romans 5 for the alternative to Lot's depravity -
Christ's love - the REAL Good News.

Regards

Steve Hill
Canberra
srh@ozemail.com.au

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Keith" <gordonkeith@acslink.net.au>
To: "Bob Bain" <bobb@soxkat.com>; "Link" <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Pak Govt may choose Linux as platform instead of Windows


> On Sat, 7 Sep 2002 21:21, Bob Bain wrote:
> >  But suggested in the Christian Bible - the cornerstone of Western
> > morality.  (Fortunately this hasn't been carried forward to our
> > Western democracy legal system):-
> >
> > "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I
> > pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye unto them as is good in
> > your eyes, only unto these men do nothing." (Lot speaking to an angry
> > mob, Genesis 19:8)"
> >
> >  Basically - "Don't rape the men.  I have virgin daughters you can
> > use"  This has always been a sticky point for me.  It's one of the
> > crucial paragraphs that lead me to reject the suggestion I should
> > read such books for the "Good News" they contain..
>
> One of reasons I like the bible so much is that it records the truth of
> the situation, not some nice sanitised version.
>
> It accurately records many of the cultural mores from the time when it
> was written. It does not espouse those as necessarily right behaviour.
>
> Regards
> Gordon
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

----------
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From annm@exocat.com.au  Mon Sep  9 10:22:24 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:22:24 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
Message-ID: <003f01c257ea$cee6ef40$d8218790@telstra.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment
hi linkers,

a young unemployed man here in hervey bay has just completed a =
multimedia course at tafe with flying colours. to get some experience =
under his belt, he would like to build web sites for local =
not-for-profit organisations. we are trying to get him a free copy of =
dreamweaver. does anyone have any idea where we could try?

peace & love

annm


************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************

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URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/32b94790/attachment.htm

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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Mon Sep  9 11:10:34 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:10:34 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
In-Reply-To: <003f01c257ea$cee6ef40$d8218790@telstra.com>; from annm@exocat.com.au on Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 08:22:24PM +1000
References: <003f01c257ea$cee6ef40$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <20020909211034.C20255@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Ann Moffatt wrote:
> a young unemployed man here in hervey bay has just completed
> a multimedia course at tafe with flying colours. to get some
> experience under his belt, he would like to build web sites for local
> not-for-profit organisations. we are trying to get him a free copy of
> dreamweaver. does anyone have any idea where we could try?

I don't want to be negative, but I think the very last think someone
just starting out on web design should be given is something like
Dreamweaver.  Once someone has learnt how HTML works, then maybe they
can pick up some fancy tools for manipulating it... but if they start
with those tools, they'll end up understanding the tools rather than
what they are applying them too.  (I get lots of people volunteering
to help with web sites I'm involved with, but when they're only
experience is "I know how to use X", then it's simply too difficult
to employ them -- I'd pretty much have to retrain them.)

With a proprietary product like Dreamweaver, there's also the issue
of getting people hooked on software they can't afford.  It's all
very well finding one free copy for this guy, but then he's going to
go off and create web sites for non-profit organisations that won't
be able to maintain them because *they* can't afford Dreamweaver.

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------

----------
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From gu@263.net  Mon Sep  9 12:16:52 2002
From: gu@263.net (gu@263.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:16:52 +0800
Subject: [LINK] =?GB2312?B?obbEp7nt06LT76G3tPLU7NOi0++w18Hs0MK58w==?=
Message-ID: <200209091216.g89CGnI9020000@anu.edu.au>

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From dassa@dhs.org  Mon Sep  9 12:26:02 2002
From: dassa@dhs.org (Dassa)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:26:02 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
In-Reply-To: <003f01c257ea$cee6ef40$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <01e201c257fc$11d804e0$0200a8c0@dassa>

http://www.w3schools.com/ Some good tutorials and an online editor.  Not
Dreamweaver but the young person may find the site of some use.

Darryl (Dassa) Lynch 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-link@www.anu.edu.au [mailto:owner-link@www.anu.edu.au] On
Behalf Of Ann Moffatt
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 8:22 PM
To: Link
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver


hi linkers,

a young unemployed man here in hervey bay has just completed a
multimedia course at tafe with flying colours. to get some experience
under his belt, he would like to build web sites for local
not-for-profit organisations. we are trying to get him a free copy of
dreamweaver. does anyone have any idea where we could try?

peace & love

annm


************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************

----------
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From andrew@sullust.net  Mon Sep  9 19:39:43 2002
From: andrew@sullust.net (Andrew Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:39:43 +0800
Subject: [LINK] Bogus Sydney Opera House web-site
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
References: <006401c25656$2e85ebe0$d8218790@telstra.com> <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209072308310.17457-100000@isis.virago.org.au>
Message-ID: <20020909193943.GE13347@thump.bur.st>

On Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 11:17:51PM +1000, Rachel Polanskis wrote:
> Where is all the student activism?  

It got stupid and/or greedy.

There seems to be a syndrome which I call "blanket stereotypical leftism" -
the symptom being an inability to look at:

 - the refugee/illegal immigrant/asylum seeker mess
 - feminism and women's interests
 - violent crushing of dissent in other countries
 - student welfare

and others, and consider them as *separate issues*. Few want to be part of
a mob.

I lost interest in my uni's Amnesty International chapter when talk began
of doing joint functions, cross-promotion etc with the campus 'women's 
collective.'

On the greed side of it, the last editorial I read in my student guild's 
paper had the author pointing out that she drives a car, goes out lots
and can afford nice clothes - but when she does that, she needs to buy
$2.50 lunches instead of $8 lunches, which is described as 'student 
poverty.' (I prefer 'living beyond your means.') Anyways, the point of
the story is that we should all be lobbying for more student welfare.

I've no first hand experience at other unis, but people tell me it's
the same everywhere.

-- 
Andrew Francis          | To email me, get | ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) 
Perth, Australia        | the real address |    against HTML email  X
http://www.sullust.net/ | from my homepage |   http://arc.pasp.de/ / \
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From hartr@interweft.com.au  Mon Sep  9 22:06:33 2002
From: hartr@interweft.com.au (hartr@interweft.com.au)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:06:33 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
In-Reply-To: <003f01c257ea$cee6ef40$d8218790@telstra.com>
Message-ID: <200209092206.g89M6bX22934@bree.inside.interweft.com.au>

On  9 Sep, Ann Moffatt wrote:
> hi linkers,
> 
> a young unemployed man here in hervey bay has just completed a
> multimedia course at tafe with flying colours. to get some experience
> under his belt, he would like to build web sites for local
> not-for-profit organisations. we are trying to get him a free copy of
> dreamweaver. does anyone have any idea where we could try?

Ann

Can I suggest that you give him a copy of Red Hat Linux - complete with
Apache etc etc - that way he can learn not only html, but also things
like php, sql database access (and Java if he wants to download it)
almost ad infinitum.

After he spends a month or so with this toolkit, I think he will be much
better off in terms of basic knowledge and understanding than spending
an equivalent time a proprietary product. Of particular importance to
web design is that the package comes with both graphical and text based
browsers - and a text based browser is essential to good web design
IMHO.

He probably won't have created such 'beautiful' web sites, complete with
massive flash pages and no text access though...

-- 
Robert Hart					 hartr@interweft.com.au
Strategic IT & open source consulting                +61 (0)438 385 533
Brisbane, Australia			    http://www.interweft.com.au

----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Mon Sep  9 21:33:59 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:33:59 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Dodgy Domain Names Renewals continue
In-Reply-To: <D399477E-C3BF-11D6-9AC6-003065791AEE@tigersnake.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020910073313.022f4e90@pop.primenet.com>

At 06:46 PM 9/09/02 +1200, Ed Parsons wrote:
>This latest letter was received by a customer of Melbourne IT.

And many others.  auDA has a consumer alert up on their website.
http://www.auda.org.au/about/news/2002090902.html

Jan



JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Mon Sep  9 21:24:35 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:24:35 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC47@EXCHANGE_AU>

Ann - I'd go with Danny on this. Dreamweaver won't teach much, except how to
use Dreamweaver. He can work with plenty of free stuff that would also teach
better the underlying principles ... and wouldn't nail the non-profits with
the question of what to do when he's moved on and Dreamweaver needs an
upgrade.

For eg, Kevin L on Link would happily describe Zope ... www.zope.org ...

RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny Yee [mailto:danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, 9 September 2002 21:11
> To: Ann Moffatt
> Cc: Link
> Subject: Re: [LINK] dreamweaver
> 
> 
> Ann Moffatt wrote:
> > a young unemployed man here in hervey bay has just completed
> > a multimedia course at tafe with flying colours. to get some
> > experience under his belt, he would like to build web sites 
> for local
> > not-for-profit organisations. we are trying to get him a 
> free copy of
> > dreamweaver. does anyone have any idea where we could try?
> 
> I don't want to be negative, but I think the very last think someone
> just starting out on web design should be given is something like
> Dreamweaver.  Once someone has learnt how HTML works, then maybe they
> can pick up some fancy tools for manipulating it... but if they start
> with those tools, they'll end up understanding the tools rather than
> what they are applying them too.  (I get lots of people volunteering
> to help with web sites I'm involved with, but when they're only
> experience is "I know how to use X", then it's simply too difficult
> to employ them -- I'd pretty much have to retrain them.)
> 
> With a proprietary product like Dreamweaver, there's also the issue
> of getting people hooked on software they can't afford.  It's all
> very well finding one free copy for this guy, but then he's going to
> go off and create web sites for non-profit organisations that won't
> be able to maintain them because *they* can't afford Dreamweaver.
> 
> Danny.
>   --------------------------------------------------------
>   http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
>   http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
>   http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
>   --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Mon Sep  9 22:27:28 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:27:28 +1000
Subject: [LINK] I stand corrected....
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020910082602.022c45b0@pop.primenet.com>

Sorry, folks, particularly Howard, for the confusion.  I 'missed' the 
missing .au on the Opera House listing info.

Jan

JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From ebayhotseller4@hotmail.com  Mon Sep  9 23:09:50 2002
From: ebayhotseller4@hotmail.com (Nycole Archambault)
Date: 09 Sep 02 23:09:50 -0000
Subject: [LINK] Auctions'
Message-ID: <PIA-DCstNSZuXJwOWFj00025875@pia-dc.pia.ops.gov.ph>

Please do not email me at the address above, email me at ingpist@btamail.net.cn
COOL, WET AND CAN BE WILD.... IN JUST MINUTES
 
Those are just a few ways to describe it. This totally adjustable sleek design adds flavor and excitement to any toilet. 
 
 Whether it's a fetish or personal hygiene the TushyClean provides a unique alternative to abrasive toilet paper. The carefully designed water jet technology is effective at removing residual waste, while enabling the user to simultaneously reap the soothing benefits of a washing sensation. It's great for hemorrhoid relief too !!!
 
An adjustable lever gives the user full control over the force of water. The nozzle can be positioned for optimal comfort and easy cleaning on any toilet 
 
The patented design offers strength, reliability and easy installation by anyone.  Now available in  5 colors. Plus it comes complete with a free universal hook up kit to fit any standard plumbing. 
 
Free gift wrapping and free shipping anywhere in the U.S.
 
See for yourself why this top quality, affordable TushyClean washes away the competition.
Please email me at  hasp@btamail.net.cn
djdfjdf

----------
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Mon Sep  9 23:25:07 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:25:07 +1000
Subject: [LINK] EU Funds Flow To Open Source
Message-ID: <3D7D2DD3.30DCDC98@austarmetro.com.au>

EU Funds Flow To Open Source
E-Government Bulletin:
Issue 121 09 September 2002 

E-government projects based on open source software could receive a major
boost when the European Commission decides at the end of September how 3.65
billion euros of EU money will be spent over the next four years on
research into digital technologies.

As part of the decision process, the commission will consider a report from
its technology advisory group (http://www.cordis.lu/ist/istag.htm)
suggesting that rapid evolution and adoption of new software applications
would be accelerated if open source software and standards are adopted as a
common infrastructure for all digital technology research projects.

The report singled out e-government for particular emphasis, concluding:
"It is recommended to specifically encourage research, technological
development and demonstration for technologies for e-government . . .
making use of open source software and creating a joint open environment
for public services" (http://fastlink.headstar.com/EU3).

Phillipe Aigrain, head of software technologies at the European
Commission's Information Society Directorate, told E-Government Bulletin
that past levels of EU funding for open source projects have been low.
"During the previous [four year] programme, the share of funding going to
open source software projects progressively increased, but remained very
limited, at between 2 and 3 per cent of the total. I expect this share will
grow significantly in the next programme, but to what degree depends on the
submissions and further evolution of the programme and policy."

The current funding decisions follow a feasibility study from the European
Commission which found that high quality, low cost e-government
applications could be deployed across Europe if software was released under
open source licences and distributed through a central pool, dubbed 'POSS'
(see E-Government Bulletin, issues 118 and 119).

To subscribe to this free monthly bulletin as an HTML attachment email
egovbulletin-subscribe@headstar.com

or for the plain text version email

egovbulletin-subscribe@headstar.com

-- 
Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should be changed
regularly and for the same reason.
-- Gerry Brooks (in the Toronto Globe & Mail)

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
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From tom.worthington@tomw.net.au  Mon Sep  9 06:55:19 2002
From: tom.worthington@tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:55:19 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Publishing vs Advertising was SWWA Broadband tender
In-Reply-To: <3D77FA45.735A@ramin.com.au>
References: <a05100301b99caf99b0b1@[10.0.1.202]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020909163955.0237dec0@tomw.net.au>

At 10:43  6/09/02, M. da Cruz wrote:

>... I peruse with amazement the "Notices" and "Court Notices" that appear 
>in newspapers. I presume there is some requirement to publish "notices" in 
>particular ways...

It seems a haphazard process. For example "Queensland Courts Practice 
Directions - No. 25 of 1999, Rule 599(3)(c) Uniform Civil Procedure Rules: 
Approval of Newspapers" 
<http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/practice/pracdir/sc99_25.htm>:

>Rule 599(3) of the Uniform Civil Procedure Rules provides for the 
>publication of a notice of intention to apply for a grant of probate or 
>letters of administration, where the deceased's last known address is not 
>more than 150 kilometres from Brisbane, in a newspaper circulating 
>throughout the State or a newspaper approved for the area of the 
>deceased's last known address by the Chief Justice under a Practice Direction.
>
>I approve the following newspapers for publication where the deceased's 
>last known address falls within the circulation district of the following:
>(a) The Gold Coast Bulletin;
>(b) The Toowoomba Chronicle; and
>(c) The Sunshine Coast Daily.
>
>Paul de Jersey
>Chief Justice
>
>23 August, 1999




Tom Worthington FACS tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150
Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309
http://www.tomw.net.au PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617
Visiting Fellow, Computer Science, Australian National University
Publications Director & Past President, Australian Computer Society

----------
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From darius@obsidian.com.au  Tue Sep 10 00:30:33 2002
From: darius@obsidian.com.au (KevinL)
Date: 10 Sep 2002 10:30:33 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC47@EXCHANGE_AU>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC47@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <1031617834.4300.459.camel@ufo>

On Tue, 2002-09-10 at 07:24, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> Ann - I'd go with Danny on this. Dreamweaver won't teach much, except how to
> use Dreamweaver. He can work with plenty of free stuff that would also teach
> better the underlying principles ... and wouldn't nail the non-profits with
> the question of what to do when he's moved on and Dreamweaver needs an
> upgrade.
> 
> For eg, Kevin L on Link would happily describe Zope ... www.zope.org ...

*laugh*

I was getting there...

What's your friend wanting to specialise in, graphical stuff, or "Web
applications programming", or portability/accessibility/usability design
work, or something else?  Because it'll depend, to some extent, what he
is most interested in as to what he should look at doing next.

Zope is a good choice if he wants to work on his "web apps" skills -
building live sites that do things, from discussion forums on up to
multi-admin workflow-driven document management systems.  It provides a
lot of the tools for the latter, and makes the former easier to produce
than a straight scripting language - as a lot of the pre-requisites, the
stuff you'll have to build anyway, are already there.  Particularly if
he's working with not-for-profits, if he's building little
community-type sites, Zope has some advantages (and you're welcome to
put him in touch with me if he wants to explore that option more).

PHP is a good choice if he wants industry recognition - as hackish as
the language may be, it's well recognised, as is perl, and skills in
either of those are easy to market.  There's also more skills out there
in those, so he'd be more replacable/his code would be easier to find
someone to work on it, to a point (that point being a fairly small size
of project, before it all gets unwieldy).

If he's just interested in the graphical aspect, or the site design
aspects, then pretty much anything is good - I'd recommend he get an
account somewhere that's friendly to developers (ie. somewhere that'll
allow him to play with php and cgi scripting and maybe even Zope), and
start trying to find excuses to build websites.  The more practice, and
the more portfolio, he can build, the better.

DreamWeaver is a crutch - I wouldn't recommend it for people starting
out, I'd recommend bogging in with pure html, and installing as many
different browsers as he can, and start looking at how html actually
behaves in the real world and what constitutes good html.  Our main html
guy here still works in a text editor on a windows box mostly, even
though he has DreamWeaver, because he prefers to be able to write the
code the way he wants.

I don't think you'll find a free copy of DreamWeaver out there easily
without pirating one.

KevinL
(Disclaimer/Plug:  We run a hosting system that caters heavily to
developers and community sites, and provide php/scripting/zope/pretty
much anything you want as long as it's unix-based)

----------
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From Liddy.Nevile@motile.net  Tue Sep 10 01:12:08 2002
From: Liddy.Nevile@motile.net (Liddy Nevile)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:12:08 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
In-Reply-To: <1031617834.4300.459.camel@ufo>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC47@EXCHANGE_AU>
 <1031617834.4300.459.camel@ufo>
Message-ID: <a05100328b9a2f6d61e69@[210.10.135.124]>

You know, I sort of agree with a lot I am reading on this topic but 
not everything.
We know little about the person in question.

I supported getting Dreamweaver because, for all its faults, it is 
very good for making accessible sites, for incremental growth of how 
sites work etc, and management of them, and because I personally 
appreciate the neat integration of code and WYSIWYG that leaves it 
open to the user to play about at whim. Also, there are neat, free 
plug-ins that help develop metadata, accessibility, etc ....

The questions is, "What do you value most?"

I go for access to the code, preservation of my code combined with 
WYSIWYG, accessibility support, site management, code and text 
checking, libraries and more ... that's a lot for starters.... and it 
costs because it is one of the few applications on the market that is 
up-to-date with the standards. There is little chance a new developer 
will know the standards - but they should be encouraged to use them.

And BTW, the student price is usually something like $125 - not huge...

Liddy
----------
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From josh@email.nu  Tue Sep 10 01:43:11 2002
From: josh@email.nu (Josh Rowe)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:43:11 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Another .au domain name scandal causes a stir 
Message-ID: <001601c2586b$7d682f40$627e000a@pm10139629>

auDA issues consumer alert
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/10/1031608236608.html

Another .au domain name scandal causes a stir
http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/ebusiness/story/0,2000024981,20268079,00.ht
m

The NetRegister renewal notice:
http://www.whatsinaname.com.au/renewals/wNR01.gif
http://www.whatsinaname.com.au/renewals/wNR02.gif
http://www.whatsinaname.com.au/renewals/wNR03.gif

and the complete set:

http://www.whatsinaname.com.au/renewals/

official auDA consumer alert:

NetRegister letter contains incorrect information
http://www.auda.org.au/about/news/2002090902.html

NetRegistry is not very happy with the similarity of their business name.

from: http://www.netregistry.com.au/

"Sept 9, 2002 - NETREGISTER IS NOT AN ASSOCIATED COMPANY OF NETREGISTRY.
Please ignore all correspondance from the company. If you registered, or
renewed your domain name through NetRegistry, we will send you renewal
invoices when due."

NetRegister is a trading name for Internet Registry P/L, who have been in
the renewal notice game previously.

auDA takes action on Internet Registry Pty Ltd mail out
http://www.auda.org.au/about/news/2002072902.html

Internet Registry Pty Ltd - Mail out contains inaccurate information
http://www.auda.org.au/about/news/2002070802.html


Josh
--
http://josh.id.au/

----------
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From jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au  Tue Sep 10 01:06:46 2002
From: jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:06:46 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Privacy in the UK - Guardian feature
Message-ID: <OF56376533.D5098369-ONCA256C30.0005A21C@dsd.vic.gov.au>

LINK readers may be interested in the recent Guardian feature coverage of
privacy issues

< http://www.guardian.co.uk/bigbrother/privacy >

 Simon Davies's article is perhaps the most worrying/thought-provoking.
It's a tale of two neighbors and their use of surveillance equipment...
<
http://www.guardian.co.uk/bigbrother/privacy/yourlife/story/0,12384,783641,00.html

>

Regards

Jeff Evans
Online Services Manager, Business Information Services
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Victoria, Australia

http://www.businessaccess.vic.gov.au
http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au
http://www.export.vic.gov.au
http://www.ecommerce.vic.gov.au
--



 _____________________________________________________________
 
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Department of Tourism, Sport and the Commonwealth Games 
Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. 

This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and
confidential information.

If you are not the intended recipient, you may not 
distribute or reproduce this e-mail or the attachments.

If you have received this message in error please notify us
by return e-mail.
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From foconno1@bigpond.net.au  Tue Sep 10 02:04:50 2002
From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:04:50 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
In-Reply-To: <a05100328b9a2f6d61e69@[210.10.135.124]>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC47@EXCHANGE_AU>
 <1031617834.4300.459.camel@ufo> <a05100328b9a2f6d61e69@[210.10.135.124]>
Message-ID: <p05100302b9a3009edbe6@[203.51.147.203]>

In many ways I agree ...

Many years ago I introduced a few of the Web authoring fraternity at 
work to DreamWeaver ... and it's enhanced their productivity 
something terrible. It's also made them a bit more adventurous, a bit 
more willing to use Javascript and other features in a context other 
than dinky graphics and has been a wonder for ensuring browser 
compatibility in the various stuff they do.

And when they discovered 'live data connections', WebDAV, versioning 
and the like during the development process, it really opened their 
eyes as to what was possible outside their comfortable 
FrontPage/Visual InterDev worlds.

At any rate I like DreamWeaver ... as a Web RAD it's hard to beat. 
Probably it's only real competitor is Adobe GoLive ... but I don't 
like the way that does many things.

That said, for someone starting out with static HTML I'd probably 
recommend they start off for a while hand coding, to get some idea of 
what the tags do and the rationale behind the Web. (Same for XML and 
the like - because what you learn when hand-coding simply can't be 
duplicated with a GUI based package.)

I don't agree with the idea of hard coding just for the sake of it 
... often because I simply don't have the time (or inclination) and 
at any rate DreamWeaver offers so much low level support and version 
control that you can do that in the package if you want to, anyway.

As Liddy points out, compared to other GUI editors DreamWeaver is 
great when you're coding for standards, browser compatibility and the 
like ... and in many ways it make sit easy to keep up with same 
because it all happens so transparently.

                                     Regards,

At 11:12 AM +1000 10/9/02, Liddy Nevile wrote:
>You know, I sort of agree with a lot I am reading on this topic but 
>not everything.
>We know little about the person in question.
>
>I supported getting Dreamweaver because, for all its faults, it is 
>very good for making accessible sites, for incremental growth of how 
>sites work etc, and management of them, and because I personally 
>appreciate the neat integration of code and WYSIWYG that leaves it 
>open to the user to play about at whim. Also, there are neat, free 
>plug-ins that help develop metadata, accessibility, etc ....
>
>The questions is, "What do you value most?"
>
>I go for access to the code, preservation of my code combined with 
>WYSIWYG, accessibility support, site management, code and text 
>checking, libraries and more ... that's a lot for starters.... and 
>it costs because it is one of the few applications on the market 
>that is up-to-date with the standards. There is little chance a new 
>developer will know the standards - but they should be encouraged to 
>use them.
>
>And BTW, the student price is usually something like $125 - not huge...
>
>Liddy
>----------
>For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Tue Sep 10 02:18:00 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 12:18:00 +1000
Subject: [LINK] dreamweaver
In-Reply-To: <a05100328b9a2f6d61e69@[210.10.135.124]>; from Liddy.Nevile@motile.net on Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 11:12:08AM +1000
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC47@EXCHANGE_AU> <1031617834.4300.459.camel@ufo> <a05100328b9a2f6d61e69@[210.10.135.124]>
Message-ID: <20020910121800.A7605@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

Liddy Nevile wrote:
> And BTW, the student price is usually something like $125 - not huge...
 
Not huge, but enough that people are looking around for freebies...

The real problem is that if he's doing volunteer work for non-profits,
that's likely to involve showing them how to maintain the sites he
builds.  And if he he's done everything with Dreamweaver, then his
dependency on that will spread to those organisations... which may
not be eligible for student prices, and may not be able to afford $125
anyway.  (And there are only going to be so many free copies around.)

Danny.
  --------------------------------------------------------
  http://dannyreviews.com/ - over six hundred book reviews
  http://www.caa.org.au/ -   working for an end to poverty
  http://danny.oz.au/ - free speech, free software, travel
  --------------------------------------------------------

----------
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Tue Sep 10 06:55:22 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:55:22 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <3D7D975A.A60902B8@austarmetro.com.au>

Folks,

If I copy a news article or web page from a source on the Internet and
distribute it (with attribution) via email to a bunch of people in my
company, am I breaking any copyright laws?

What about to Link?

--
Correlation is usually used when knowledge is incomplete, and many times it
leads to unsound conclusions. Every statistics student knows the story of
the man who had a hangover after drinking scotch and water one night,
bourbon and water the second, and vodka and water the third. A statistician
advised him to stop drinking water.
-- unknown

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From foconno1@bigpond.net.au  Tue Sep 10 09:11:32 2002
From: foconno1@bigpond.net.au (Frank O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:11:32 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <3D7D975A.A60902B8@austarmetro.com.au>
References: <3D7D975A.A60902B8@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <p05100300b9a365b9f213@[203.51.147.136]>

My gut feeling is no.

I rely on the various common law and Copyright Act copyright defences 
that are available including 'fair dealing', research and study, 
reasonable portion, news reporting (doesn't only work for 
newspapers!) and/or criticism and review.

One article out a a whole newspaper would probably be fine.

The whole newspaper on the other hand.  :)

Needless to say you'll leave the attribution and other aspects of the 
page untouched, and there is no statement on the site or the page 
that specifically precludes you from doing this.

Finally, newspapers and media organisations who produce them have for 
a long while impliedly consented to people cutting them up, 
photocopying articles or otherwise and making use of them in this 
fashion ... and I haven't seen them make any case against anyone 
who's done so in good faith.

Just my 2 cents worth

				Regards,

At 4:55 PM +1000 10/9/02, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:
>Folks,
>
>If I copy a news article or web page from a source on the Internet and
>distribute it (with attribution) via email to a bunch of people in my
>company, am I breaking any copyright laws?
>
>What about to Link?
>
>--
>Correlation is usually used when knowledge is incomplete, and many times it
>leads to unsound conclusions. Every statistics student knows the story of
>the man who had a hangover after drinking scotch and water one night,
>bourbon and water the second, and vodka and water the third. A statistician
>advised him to stop drinking water.
>-- unknown
>
>Regards
>brd
>
>Bernard Robertson-Dunn
>Canberra Australia
>brd@austarmetro.com.au
>----------
>For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From mikal@stillhq.com  Tue Sep 10 10:20:13 2002
From: mikal@stillhq.com (Michael Still)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:20:13 +1000
Subject: [LINK] NetRegister letter contains INCORRECT INFORMATION - (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209102019340.12461-100000@localhost.localdomain>


I thought this might be of interest given discussion about this topic
here...

Cheers,
Mikal

-- 

Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com)     UMT+10hrs

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:14:29 +1000
From: Chris Disspain <info@auda.org.au>
To: mikal@stillhq.com
Subject: NetRegister letter contains INCORRECT INFORMATION -


As a registrant of a com.au domain name you may have recently received a
letter from "NetRegister" about Internet Name Group going out of business.
This letter contains statements that are inaccurate and may mislead you.

As the CEO of auDA (the internet domain name regulator) I am sending you
this email to ensure that you do not, due to the inaccurate statements,
pay money to NetRegister or renew your domain name through them.

Net Register is a business name registered to Internet Registry Pty Ltd
and this company has been the subject of a previous auDA Consumer Alert
(http://www.auda.org.au/about/news/2002070802.html).

PLEASE NOTE that Net Register and Internet Registry Pty Ltd have no
connection whatsoever with auDA accredited registrar Net Registry Pty Ltd.

In auDA's view, the "NetRegister" letter may mislead you into believing
that you are in danger of losing your domain name. This is NOT TRUE.

1. If you were not a customer of Internet Name Group

The information contained in the letter is of no relevance to you and you
should discard it.

2. If you were a customer of Internet Name Group

You should read "Internet Name Group - Information for Domain Name
Registrants" on auDA's website at
http://www.auda.org.au/about/news/2002082102.html

Regards,

Chris Disspain
CEO - auDA
www.auda.org.au


----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep 10 21:37:40 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 07:37:40 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC54@EXCHANGE_AU>

Frank, 

The exception, I guess, applies to commercial repro, ie clipping services.
They're covered by a special license under the Copyright Agencies Limited
(CAL).

Richard Chirgwin
<RC off-topic opinion>The CAL license is a good thing, in that it stops
media monitoring services ripping off newspapers without paying for
reproduction. But it's a little inequitable for non-newspaper media.

The license assumes that circulation is large enough so that reader
"bleeding" by clipping services is insignificant. Fine for a newspaper, but
it hurts small circulation titles. A magazine that needs advertiser revenue
(sorry to talk dirty...) can't comfortably lose chunks of management readers
because "oh, we don't subscribe to magazines, we just use the clipping
service" (especially because I suspect that Richard's Enourmous Company
Limited redistributes the clipping stuff for zip internally, illegally but
"look, we're paying $10k a year for this!")...
RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank O'Connor [mailto:foconno1@bigpond.net.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 19:12
> To: Bernard Robertson-Dunn
> Cc: Link
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Copyright question
> 
> 
> My gut feeling is no.
> 
> I rely on the various common law and Copyright Act copyright defences 
> that are available including 'fair dealing', research and study, 
> reasonable portion, news reporting (doesn't only work for 
> newspapers!) and/or criticism and review.
> 
> One article out a a whole newspaper would probably be fine.
> 
> The whole newspaper on the other hand.  :)
> 
> Needless to say you'll leave the attribution and other aspects of the 
> page untouched, and there is no statement on the site or the page 
> that specifically precludes you from doing this.
> 
> Finally, newspapers and media organisations who produce them have for 
> a long while impliedly consented to people cutting them up, 
> photocopying articles or otherwise and making use of them in this 
> fashion ... and I haven't seen them make any case against anyone 
> who's done so in good faith.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth
> 
> 				Regards,
> 
> At 4:55 PM +1000 10/9/02, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:
> >Folks,
> >
> >If I copy a news article or web page from a source on the 
> Internet and
> >distribute it (with attribution) via email to a bunch of people in my
> >company, am I breaking any copyright laws?
> >
> >What about to Link?
> >
> >--
> >Correlation is usually used when knowledge is incomplete, 
> and many times it
> >leads to unsound conclusions. Every statistics student knows 
> the story of
> >the man who had a hangover after drinking scotch and water one night,
> >bourbon and water the second, and vodka and water the third. 
> A statistician
> >advised him to stop drinking water.
> >-- unknown
> >
> >Regards
> >brd
> >
> >Bernard Robertson-Dunn
> >Canberra Australia
> >brd@austarmetro.com.au
> >----------
> >For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep 10 22:09:47 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:09:47 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Killing TV at last?
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC57@EXCHANGE_AU>

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/news/n-invidi.shtml

Clip:
>NEW YORK For Madison Avenue, the Holy Grail is television 
>commercials targeted to individuals on a home-by-home basis.
>Now, a company called Invidi, using technology developed at 
>legendary television pioneer Sarnoff Corp., is preparing to 
>introduce the Holy Grail to the marketplace. 
>Ad insertion is reaching a whole new level. 
>"The emergence of the digital set-top box allows us to present 
>targeted ads in this fashion," said David Downey, Invidi CEO and 
>president. "We can provide different commercials to individual residences."

Okay, I don't swallow adjectives like Holy Grail without salt ... but there
are so many holes in this idea...
...any consumer backlash is likely to be very severe.
...it's almost certain that even if the delivery mechanism is able to target
individual set-top boxes, the marketeers' databases will be so flakey that
'targeting' will become laughable. A whole new level of "Dear Mr Jones,
Deceased," if you know what I mean!

Richard Chirgwin
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From lannet@lannet.com.au  Tue Sep 10 22:39:27 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:39:27 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

WT* is "blogging"?

-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From mikal@stillhq.com  Tue Sep 10 23:03:22 2002
From: mikal@stillhq.com (Michael Still)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:03:22 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209110901390.31891-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote:

> WT* is "blogging"?

The righting of an oline diary which documents your otherwise inane
life: http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/blog/

Mikal

-- 

Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com)     UMT+10hrs

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From contour@prussia.net  Tue Sep 10 23:22:27 2002
From: contour@prussia.net (Stilgherrian)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:22:27 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <a0510030db9a42e526a53@[192.168.2.23]>

At 08:39 +1000 11/9/02, Howard Lowndes wrote:
>WT* is "blogging"?

Probably not age, Howard, just ignorance. ;) Even old people blog...

"Blog" comes from "weblog", the idea of keeping a diary online. (I 
guess the use of "log" rather than "diary" could even relate back to 
Lisa Simpson's usage... She keeps a log, not a diary.) The word seems 
to have been extended (narrowed?) to those weblogs which use a basic 
content management system to post the entries.

However, I've even seen Slashdot referred to as a "blog", presumably 
because it's still based around the concept of daily-ish postings of 
an "I just saw X" nature.

There ya go, version 0.1 of an explanation... Others may wish to add 
more specifics but that should do you.

Kind regards,

Stil


-- 
Stilgherrian <contour@prussia.net>
Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia. ABN 25 231 641 421
mobile 0407 623 600 (international +61 407 623 600)
fax 02 9516 5630 (international +61 2 9516 5630)
----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Tue Sep 10 23:27:12 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:27:12 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC58@EXCHANGE_AU>

And a contraction of "Weblog", ie "Weblogging" becomes "blogging" for those
who are thrifty with their syllables. 

(I suspect there's a wordwide shortage of w and e at the moment. Definite
articles are also in short supply, as are capitals and punctuation. I should
feel guilty on my profligate use of all of these, but I don't!)
RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Still [mailto:mikal@stillhq.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 09:03
> To: Howard Lowndes
> Cc: Mail List - LINK
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
> 
> 
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> 
> > WT* is "blogging"?
> 
> The righting of an oline diary which documents your otherwise inane
> life: http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/blog/
> 
> Mikal
> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com)     UMT+10hrs
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au  Tue Sep 10 23:55:23 2002
From: jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au (jeff.evans@iird.vic.gov.au)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:55:23 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
Message-ID: <OFBAC80650.6C6FD310-ONCA256C30.00803D09@dsd.vic.gov.au>


Howard

"Blogging" derives from "Web logging", and a brief intro to the phenomenon
is at < http://newhome.weblogs.com/historyOfWeblogs >
According to Dave Winer,
"The first weblog was the first website, http://info.cern.ch/, the site
built by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN. From this page TBL pointed to all the new
sites as they came online."

There are many tens of thousands of blogs now, and according to one of the
early commercial sites Blogger < http://www.blogger.com > there are more
than one new Blogger blogs being created every second... like anything else
that stretches a few paradigms, blogging is seen as
a) a mere passing fad, or
b) the biggest thing since sliced bread

Many blog writers focus on specific issues eg Zeldman's A List Apart <
http://www.alistapart.com/issues/149/ > and the corporate world is starting
to take them seriously for instance  Macromedia management & staff author
several blogs, eg < http://radio.weblogs.com/0106797/ >.  "Serious"
journalists even do it!

Community blogs are developing eg < http://www.memepool.com/ > <
http://www.metafilter.com/ >  and how many/who links to blogs can be
important in this collective/cultural thang
< http://blogdex.media.mit.edu/ >

New jargon and even arts are being developed, such as Figure Blogging <
http://www.fishrush.com/links/blog.htm >

Personally I think blogging can't be ignored as a cultural phenomenon and
it's helping to keep the Web free(ish).

Regards

Jeff Evans
Online Services Manager, Business Information Services
Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development
Victoria, Australia

http://www.businessaccess.vic.gov.au
http://www.business.channel.vic.gov.au
http://www.export.vic.gov.au
http://www.ecommerce.vic.gov.au
--


                                                                                                                                   
                    Howard Lowndes                                                                                                 
                    <lannet@lannet.       To:     Mail List - LINK <link@www.anu.edu.au>                                           
                    com.au>               cc:                                                                                      
                    Sent by:              Fax to:                                                                                  
                    owner-link@www.       Subject:     [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...                                 
                    anu.edu.au                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                    11/09/2002                                                                                                     
                    08:39 AM                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   




WT* is "blogging"?

--
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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From rik@kawaja.net  Wed Sep 11 00:11:21 2002
From: rik@kawaja.net (Rik Harris)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:11:21 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC58@EXCHANGE_AU>
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC58@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <20020911001120.GL24769@fulcrum.com.au>

On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 09:27:12AM +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> And a contraction of "Weblog", ie "Weblogging" becomes "blogging" for those
> who are thrifty with their syllables. 
> 
> (I suspect there's a wordwide shortage of w and e at the moment. Definite
> articles are also in short supply, as are capitals and punctuation. I should
> feel guilty on my profligate use of all of these, but I don't!)

Well, I'm sure all the w's have gone into redundant 'www' prefixes and
since 'e' is the most common letter in the English language, perhaps
the prolifilation of Internet web sites is beginning to use them all
up?  Of course, Unix was always thrifty with its vowels (mv = move,
etc), but it just doesn't have the market share to make a significant
difference to this worldwide shortage.

rik.

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Still [mailto:mikal@stillhq.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 09:03
> > To: Howard Lowndes
> > Cc: Mail List - LINK
> > Subject: Re: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> > 
> > > WT* is "blogging"?
> > 
> > The righting of an oline diary which documents your otherwise inane
> > life: http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/blog/
> > 
> > Mikal
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com)     UMT+10hrs
> > 
> > ----------
> > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> > 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU  Wed Sep 11 01:01:47 2002
From: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU (David Chia)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:01:47 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] (FWD) Does Your Weblog Own You? (was Re: Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020911105017.13103A-100000@atlantic>


On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote:

> WT* is "blogging"?

To some people Link and blogging are almost interchangable.
Try the quiz below replacing the word blogging with Link.

  Does Your Weblog Own You?
  http://wannabegirl.org/quiz/owned/

If your result is positive you are almost there.


David Chia

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From at@ah.net  Wed Sep 11 00:50:16 2002
From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:50:16 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC58@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020911104923.06583ec0@pop>

At 09:27 11/09/02 +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
>And a contraction of "Weblog", ie "Weblogging" becomes "blogging" for those
>who are thrifty with their syllables.
>
>(I suspect there's a wordwide shortage of w and e at the moment. Definite

No kidding.  It's all those www's out there using up the characters.  And 
all that e-commernce has used most of the e's too.

b is a viable character presently, but don't worry the pr^hawn industry 
will see it's benefits soon enough and take it over.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From at@ah.net  Wed Sep 11 00:49:09 2002
From: at@ah.net (Adam Todd)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:49:09 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209110901390.31891-100000@localhost.localdo
 main>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020911104838.06582920@pop>

At 09:03 11/09/02 +1000, Michael Still wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote:
>
> > WT* is "blogging"?
>
>The righting of an oline diary which documents your otherwise inane
>life: http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/blog/

Righting?  You mean the diary is making a wrong more correct :)

Writing is what was meant - I'm sure!


----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From m.lean@qut.edu.au  Wed Sep 11 01:17:41 2002
From: m.lean@qut.edu.au (Michael Lean)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:17:41 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <3D7D975A.A60902B8@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020911103959.00b04b68@pop.qut.edu.au>

---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment
Bernard,
The Copyright Act 1968 (Commonwealth) grants to copyright owners the 
exclusive right of "communication to the public". This applies to all 
online activities - sending email to lists, uploading to websites, ftp 
sites, and so on.

Distributing stuff to the people in your company could be construed as a 
communication to the public, as your co-workers are there in their public 
persona. ( from Commonwealth Bank case a few years ago about workers 
viewing a training film being "the public").

The fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act do not cover such an 
activity. Fair dealing for the reporting of news must be in connection with 
a newspaper, magazine or similar periodical, or in a cinematographic film, 
so distributing in the way you describe is not covered.

Fair dealing for criticism and review doesn't apply either, from Beaumont 
J's holding in _De Garis v Neville Jefffress Pidler Pty Ltd.

Attributing something doesn't get you off the hook, it merely means that 
you are complying with the moral rights part of the Act, and ensuring that 
you respect the author's right of attribution.

So, my opinion is that you are infringing the copyright owner's several 
exclusive rights:
a) the right of communication to the public
b) the right to make copies
c) the right to perform the work in public (i.e. display it on a screen)
d) the right of publication (you are arguably re-publishing)
e) the right of adaptation (if you scanned the article and distributed a 
digital version)

Of course, how risky this behaviour is, is another thing.

cheers,
Mike




At 04:55 PM 10/09/2002 +1000, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:
>Folks,
>
>If I copy a news article or web page from a source on the Internet and
>distribute it (with attribution) via email to a bunch of people in my
>company, am I breaking any copyright laws?
>
>What about to Link?
>

Michael M. Lean JP (Qual)
University Copyright Officer
Queensland University of Technology and Griffith University
Brisbane, Australia
Phone 07 3864 4024  Fax 07 3864 1823  Mobile 0438 589 181
CRICOS No. 00213J

...the raison d'etre of the web, both in its  utopian and capitalist 
manifestations, is the click; to resist the click is to resist the web. Who 
would want to do a thing like that?
Keith Gessen  "The New Write"  in The Australian 30/5/01
---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/0e24a67e/attachment.htm

---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--

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From james.pearce@zdnet.com.au  Wed Sep 11 01:29:50 2002
From: james.pearce@zdnet.com.au (James Pearce)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:29:50 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
References: <3D7D975A.A60902B8@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <013c01c25932$b8f75910$e4e90ccb@meganmcauliffe>

Hi Bernard,

Copying an entire news article or web page is technically in breach of
copyright. I'll answer some of Frank's points below.

An article or web page is not considered a reasonable portion of an entire
site, it is considered a complete entity. Some paragraphs from an article or
page would be considered a fair portion. I guess some arguable exceptions
would be articles that are only two or three paragraphs long, or features
that covered many web pages.

For research and study you tend not to distribute the article, even if you
make a copy of it for research purposes, you tend to refer to it in other
published material, and perhaps quote a small part of it.

For criticism or review you would also tend to quote relevant portions to
support your claims on the article. For example, when Richard goes to town
on a piece of journalism he considers inadequate, he'll usually link to it
and cut out pieces that illustrate his complaints.

For news reporting, you can refer to an article and quote portions of it,
but not replicate it whole without prior consent. For example, newspapers
can publish wires stories, (and are probably given consent to publish press
releases if they want :-) but if the SMH lifted a story straight out of the
Australian they would find themselves in court before the day was out.

That being said, the reality is you probably won't get in trouble for it,
most sites won't care and many will consider it good publicity. Sending to
your workmates you could raise the comparison of lending a newspaper, but
publishing to Link it would be harder to argue that.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernard Robertson-Dunn" <brd@austarmetro.com.au>
To: "Link" <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:55 PM
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question


> Folks,
>
> If I copy a news article or web page from a source on the Internet and
> distribute it (with attribution) via email to a bunch of people in my
> company, am I breaking any copyright laws?
>
> What about to Link?
>
> --
> Correlation is usually used when knowledge is incomplete, and many times
it
> leads to unsound conclusions. Every statistics student knows the story of
> the man who had a hangover after drinking scotch and water one night,
> bourbon and water the second, and vodka and water the third. A
statistician
> advised him to stop drinking water.
> -- unknown
>
> Regards
> brd
>
> Bernard Robertson-Dunn
> Canberra Australia
> brd@austarmetro.com.au
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From mikal@stillhq.com  Wed Sep 11 01:43:02 2002
From: mikal@stillhq.com (Michael Still)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:43:02 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020911104838.06582920@pop>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209111142460.8695-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Adam Todd wrote:

> At 09:03 11/09/02 +1000, Michael Still wrote:
> >On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> >
> > > WT* is "blogging"?
> >
> >The righting of an oline diary which documents your otherwise inane
> >life: http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/blog/
>
> Righting?  You mean the diary is making a wrong more correct :)
> Writing is what was meant - I'm sure!

Sorry, I am suffering under the effects of the flu.

Mikal

-- 

Michael Still (mikal@stillhq.com)     UMT+10hrs

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep 11 01:50:28 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:50:28 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Broadband "League Tables"
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC61@EXCHANGE_AU>

In the UK:
http://www.nielsen-netratings.com/news.jsp
>UK Lags Behind Europe in Broadband Take-Up

>The latest research from Nielsen//NetRatings, the leading provider of 
>Internet audience measurement, shows that the number of households 
>using broadband Internet connections in the UK is lower than in 
>any other country in Europe.
>As the chart below shows, only 9% of UK households use a high-speed
connection 
>to dial up to the Internet, compared to 39% in Germany and 33% in Sweden. 
>Even France, which has a far lower overall penetration of the Internet, 
>has a higher number of households using broadband.'
>"This time last year 5% of British surfers were using a high-speed 
>Internet connection"...

[Observation: it's inconsistent to equate "households" to "surfers", as if
every household in Britain had an Internet user...]

In the Australian scene:
http://www.acnielsen.com.au/news.asp?newsID=188
>Broadband takes off as Internet providers turn up the volume

>Sydney, September 5, 2002: The number of Internet users connecting from
home 
>by broadband* surged 25 per cent over the past three months, with more than

>half a million Australians now enjoying high-speed access (>56k), according

>to latest findings from Nielsen//NetRatings.

Well, well. 8% is Australia doing well, 9% is UK doing badly. And I know
about Korea and everything.

Perhaps, since broadband aspires to being a consumer market, it would be
mature if we stopped measuring national pride according to the number of
broadband users...

Richard Chirgwin
----------
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From lannet@lannet.com.au  Wed Sep 11 01:54:03 2002
From: lannet@lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:54:03 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <20020911001120.GL24769@fulcrum.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209111147210.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Rik Harris wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 09:27:12AM +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> > And a contraction of "Weblog", ie "Weblogging" becomes "blogging" for those
> > who are thrifty with their syllables.
> >
> > (I suspect there's a wordwide shortage of w and e at the moment. Definite
> > articles are also in short supply, as are capitals and punctuation. I should
> > feel guilty on my profligate use of all of these, but I don't!)
>
> Well, I'm sure all the w's have gone into redundant 'www' prefixes and
> since 'e' is the most common letter in the English language, perhaps
> the prolifilation of Internet web sites is beginning to use them all
> up?  Of course, Unix was always thrifty with its vowels (mv = move,
> etc), but it just doesn't have the market share to make a significant
> difference to this worldwide shortage.

The "e"s have all been used up by the curse of everything/anything that
can be remotely associated with the Internet being described as
"e-Something".

I also think the shortage of "w" and "e" is further compounded by their
combined use as "we".

I hav to thank (I think) vryon ho rspondd.  It's gratifying to ralis that
som Linkrs hav sufficint tim to undrtak such in-dpth rsarch.


-- 
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people
Contact detail at http://www.lannetlinux.com
"Flatter government, not fatter government." - me
 Get rid of the Australian states.

----------
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From bscott@gtlaw.com.au  Wed Sep 11 01:59:42 2002
From: bscott@gtlaw.com.au (bscott@gtlaw.com.au)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:59:42 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <OF965EDF84.91360195-ONCA256C31.000A5905@gtlaw.com.au>


Exam question 1:
How do these manifold restrictions on your rights contribute to the goals
of the copyright regime (the provision of an incentive to the creation of
works).  To put it another way, if you (and others) were not so restricted,
and did in fact email out copies of articles (heaven forbid), would the
creation of such works grind to a screaming halt?  If not, would their
creation be unduly inhibited?




                                                                                                                      
                      "James Pearce"                                                                                  
                      <james.pearce@zd         To:      "Bernard Robertson-Dunn" <brd@austarmetro.com.au>, "Link"     
                      net.com.au>              <link@www.anu.edu.au>                                                  
                      Sent by:                 cc:                                                                    
                      owner-link@www.a         Subject: Re: [LINK] Copyright question                                 
                      nu.edu.au                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      
                      11/09/02 11:29                                                                                  
                      AM                                                                                              
                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                      



Hi Bernard,

Copying an entire news article or web page is technically in breach of
copyright. I'll answer some of Frank's points below.

An article or web page is not considered a reasonable portion of an entire
site, it is considered a complete entity. Some paragraphs from an article
or
page would be considered a fair portion. I guess some arguable exceptions
would be articles that are only two or three paragraphs long, or features
that covered many web pages.

For research and study you tend not to distribute the article, even if you
make a copy of it for research purposes, you tend to refer to it in other
published material, and perhaps quote a small part of it.

For criticism or review you would also tend to quote relevant portions to
support your claims on the article. For example, when Richard goes to town
on a piece of journalism he considers inadequate, he'll usually link to it
and cut out pieces that illustrate his complaints.

For news reporting, you can refer to an article and quote portions of it,
but not replicate it whole without prior consent. For example, newspapers
can publish wires stories, (and are probably given consent to publish press
releases if they want :-) but if the SMH lifted a story straight out of the
Australian they would find themselves in court before the day was out.

That being said, the reality is you probably won't get in trouble for it,
most sites won't care and many will consider it good publicity. Sending to
your workmates you could raise the comparison of lending a newspaper, but
publishing to Link it would be harder to argue that.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernard Robertson-Dunn" <brd@austarmetro.com.au>
To: "Link" <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:55 PM
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question


> Folks,
>
> If I copy a news article or web page from a source on the Internet and
> distribute it (with attribution) via email to a bunch of people in my
> company, am I breaking any copyright laws?
>
> What about to Link?
>
> --
> Correlation is usually used when knowledge is incomplete, and many times
it
> leads to unsound conclusions. Every statistics student knows the story of
> the man who had a hangover after drinking scotch and water one night,
> bourbon and water the second, and vodka and water the third. A
statistician
> advised him to stop drinking water.
> -- unknown
>
> Regards
> brd
>
> Bernard Robertson-Dunn
> Canberra Australia
> brd@austarmetro.com.au
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/




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From dlochrin@dot.net.au  Wed Sep 11 02:06:08 2002
From: dlochrin@dot.net.au (David Lochrin)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:06:08 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Predictions from Lindows
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020911120608.007a8100@mail.dot.net.au>

Linkers,

This bumpf is from Lindows however it contains some interesting predictions including "MS Windows XPLite".

David Lochrin

------------------------------------
Michael's Minutes: Predictions

I've learned a lot about the desktop Linux business over the last year that we've been doing Lindows.com. I've talked with industry experts, consumers, CEOs from many of the major software and hardware companies and our own Insiders. Using the knowledge I've learned from these people, I'm going to make a few predictions about what you'll see in the desktop computer business in the upcoming year.
 
 1) PCs will cost $0.00
 
Customers will soon be provided with free computers if they sign-up for services. With the price of computers finally under $200, offers will start emerging that will provide a complimentary PC when committing to services such as Internet connectivity, cable, online banking, or even a software service similar to our Click-N-Run Warehouse, which provides all the basic software needed for a flat fee. This is similar to the cell phone business which provides a free or heavily subsidized phone, if you'll promise to stick with their service for an extended period of time. AOL might be a likely candidate as they watch subscriber numbers plateau. Sign-up for a 2 year commitment with AOL and receive an AOL-equipped computer. Plummeting hardware prices are going to make different business propositions related to PC ownership possible. 
 
2) Microsoft Windows XPLite 
 
You'll see a series of design wins for Linux powering many of the sub-$500 computers as you've seen with Walmart.com. The cost of hardware is dropping so steeply, that manufacturers are unwilling to pay Microsoft $100 per copy of Microsoft Windows XP as well as deal with their onerous auditing and accounting demands which make the true price much higher. In the second half of 2003, Microsoft will unveil XPL which is a stripped down version of Microsoft Windows XP designed to be less than half the price of the current operating system licensing. This still won't be cheap enough for the majority of hardware manufacturers and by the end of 03 Linux will be firmly entrenched in the low-end market.
 
Microsoft won't be happy about doing this (and giving up their monopolistic windfall profit margins), but because LindowsOS and others are bringing choice to the desktop computer, they'll be forced to. 
 
3) Desktop Linux Adoption Will Achieve 10%
 
According to Netcraft, more than half of the web servers today are running Linux. Most of the server operators selected Linux because of its low-cost and robustness. Those same compelling factors will propel the adoption of Linux on the desktop in schools, in homes and in cost-conscience businesses around the globe. Since it does take a bit more inertia to standardize an office or household with Linux than a headless, faceless server, the adoption will be a bit slower than we saw on the server side, but will still see healthy growth. If you want to see it first hand, plan to attend the Desktop Linux Summit February 20-21st in San Diego. 
 
4) Return of the Windows Wars
 
In the 80s, there was healthy competition as many companies offered windows based products. Microsoft's ferocious competition and illegal tactics eventually wiped out these companies and their window manager products. This year we'll see several of the larger hardware companies adopt their own window managers based on Linux which will invigorate the software business with some much needed competition. Can you imagine a car company that didn't design the interior of cars they manufactured? 
 
Worse, what if all cars had identical interiors and there was only one supplier who marked them up so that they made more profits than all the actual car companies combined? That sounds like a preposterous idea, but that's the PC business today. PC builders are relegated to commodity vendors because their interiors are all identical and Microsoft makes more profits then all the computer companies combined. Instead of giving the lion's share of the profits in the computing industry to Microsoft, it makes much more sense to invest a portion of those monies into a product they can own and use as a competitive advantage. They'll be able to not only customize this product to their own tastes, but also generate revenues from it through upgrades and other sales opportunities such as software subscriptions. Today's computer builders pay massive fees to Microsoft for the privilege of making cheap razors while Microsoft makes all the profits by selling the razor blades. Management of PC companies will eventually tire of selling low-margin hardware while Microsoft reaps all the profits from high-margin software. They'll start shipping computers with their own operating system tailored to their customers needs and designed to give them a healthier profit margin. The enormous strides that Linux has made over the last few years (driver support, ease-of-use, hardware support) has made this a practical business decision where in the past it was a very difficult proposition.
 
Before "Gateway Windows," "Dell Windows," "AOL Windows" or others can label their own operating systems with the windows moniker without reprisal from Microsoft (as was commonplace in the early PC era), Lindows.com will have to prevail in our lawsuit fight  so the word 'windows' will be returned to the public domain of computing. 
 
Special note: Thanks to all those who responded to our requests for pre-1983 materials using the word 'windows'. You provided us with many very helpful materials which we plan on introducing to the court. If you find more mentions in your personal libraries, please, let us know!
 
5) No all-in-one personal computers 
 
Over the past few years many pundits have put forth the notion that your personal computer will be your telephone, game station, music center, TV set, alongside the list of duties it already admirably performs. At Lindows.com, we see it differently. We don't dispute that PC architecture will power many, if not all of those devices. But we don't believe you'll see a consolidation of devices into one monolithic machine. Just as you have many kitchen appliances all designed to do separate things instead of an all-in-one toaster/blender/microwave/waffle iron, your house will be the same.  
 
You'll see a proliferation of inexpensive personal computer powered devices where each one is dedicated to a specific purpose. In fact, that's what you're already seeing. An Xbox is actually a personal computer masquerading as a game console (and some people are even trying to run Linux on it). Your Tivo or ReplayTV may look like a souped-up VCR, but it's really just a personal computer with a specialized case, remote and software. Expect to see more personal computers appearing in your home designed with specific purposes such as your music library, kitchen duties, home finances, etc. Some may remember the Internet appliance disasters a few years ago. The difference now is that the equipment will be based on existing low-cost PC hardware and run Linux software, which will keep the price low. 
 
Those are my predictions for what will be an exciting year for desktop Linux. As a special thank you to all our Insiders who are helping us shape the direction of LindowsOS, we are allowing free admission to  Desktop Linux Summit. Insiders also receive a TWO-year membership to the Lindows.com "Click-N-Run Warehouse" (a $198 value) for $99. You'll want to hurry though, as this offer ends with the General Release of LindowsOS later this year
 
As always, thanks for your support.
 
Michael Robertson
 
Please visit support.lindows.com to answers questions you may have about LindowsOS or Lindows.com.
 
<link>
 
Bringing Choice to Your Computer!
 
Lindows.com is a consumer company that brings choice to computer users. Lindows.com, Inc. was started by Michael Robertson, founder and former CEO of MP3.com. LindowsOS is a modern, affordable, easy-to-use operating system that allows users access to hundreds of applications via the Click-N-Run(tm) Warehouse. All applications in the Click-N-Run Warehouse (www.lindows.com/warehouse) are licensed on a per-person or family basis and can be downloaded, installed and run with just one-mouse click. LindowsOS is presently available on LindowsOS Certified Computers (www.lindows.com/walmart) being offered from Lindows.com Builder partners, such as Walmart.com (NYSE:WMT) (www.lindows.com/builders). The General Release of LindowsOS, available presently for download and preview to Lindows.com Insiders (www.lindows.com/signup), will be made available later this year for those wishing to install and run LindowsOS on their existing computer hardware. The General Release version will support a wider range of computer hardware and includes unique features such as a "Friendly-Install" alongside an existing Microsoft(r) Windows operating system, a streamlined installation process which requires no computer knowledge, and the ability to run a select set of "bridge" Windows-compatible programs. For more information see www.lindows.com/products.
 
 
LindowsOS and Lindows.com are trademarks of Lindows.com, Inc. Linux® is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. Microsoft® Windows operating system is a registered trademark or service mark of the Microsoft Corporation.
 
mm27
 



__________________________________________________________

=================================================
David Lochrin
+61 2 9363 1094
PGP public key available by mail to:    pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net
                                          subject:    GET David Lochrin
=================================================
----------
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From paris@dot.net.au  Wed Sep 11 02:21:45 2002
From: paris@dot.net.au (Virginia Gordon)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:21:45 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
References: <3D7D975A.A60902B8@austarmetro.com.au> <013c01c25932$b8f75910$e4e90ccb@meganmcauliffe>
Message-ID: <3D7EA8BA.9D499563@dot.net.au>

And don't forget the good folk at the Copyright Council are paid to
provide free advice on such issues - our government dollars at work!!!
They do fantastic research work and I would recommend you get advice on
anything where there may be doubt.

But good also to get the G&T view of the world. Their newsletter is
another good source of copyright information.

It may be useful for Linkers to pull together the range of issues they'd
like their advice on and we get them to respond to us directly as a group?

Their contact info:

info@copyright.org.au
PO Box 1986 Strawberry Hills NSW 2012
Australia

+61 2 9699 3247 (Tel)
+61 2 9698 3536 (Fax)
----------------------

Virginia G
----------
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From james.pearce@zdnet.com.au  Wed Sep 11 02:46:32 2002
From: james.pearce@zdnet.com.au (James Pearce)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:46:32 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
References: <OF965EDF84.91360195-ONCA256C31.000A5905@gtlaw.com.au>
Message-ID: <021001c2593d$6fde9350$e4e90ccb@meganmcauliffe>

That's an arguable point.

If I was going to argue no, I would say that it would be good publicity,
increase brand recognition and therefore more people would go to the
original page off their own bat.

If I was to argue yes, I would say that if the articles were emailed out
(not by the authors, but others through cut and paste) then the number of
people visiting the site would be reduced because they read the articles in
their inbox. If no-one visits the site, it closes down and no more articles
are produced.

I don't know which of these scenarios is true, it would probably require a
great deal of research beyond my capacities.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: <bscott@gtlaw.com.au>
To: "Bernard Robertson-Dunn" <brd@austarmetro.com.au>; "Link"
<link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Copyright question


>
> Exam question 1:
> How do these manifold restrictions on your rights contribute to the goals
> of the copyright regime (the provision of an incentive to the creation of
> works).  To put it another way, if you (and others) were not so
restricted,
> and did in fact email out copies of articles (heaven forbid), would the
> creation of such works grind to a screaming halt?  If not, would their
> creation be unduly inhibited?
>
>
>
>
>
>                       "James Pearce"
>                       <james.pearce@zd         To:      "Bernard
Robertson-Dunn" <brd@austarmetro.com.au>, "Link"
>                       net.com.au>              <link@www.anu.edu.au>
>                       Sent by:                 cc:
>                       owner-link@www.a         Subject: Re: [LINK]
Copyright question
>                       nu.edu.au
>
>
>                       11/09/02 11:29
>                       AM
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Bernard,
>
> Copying an entire news article or web page is technically in breach of
> copyright. I'll answer some of Frank's points below.
>
> An article or web page is not considered a reasonable portion of an entire
> site, it is considered a complete entity. Some paragraphs from an article
> or
> page would be considered a fair portion. I guess some arguable exceptions
> would be articles that are only two or three paragraphs long, or features
> that covered many web pages.
>
> For research and study you tend not to distribute the article, even if you
> make a copy of it for research purposes, you tend to refer to it in other
> published material, and perhaps quote a small part of it.
>
> For criticism or review you would also tend to quote relevant portions to
> support your claims on the article. For example, when Richard goes to town
> on a piece of journalism he considers inadequate, he'll usually link to it
> and cut out pieces that illustrate his complaints.
>
> For news reporting, you can refer to an article and quote portions of it,
> but not replicate it whole without prior consent. For example, newspapers
> can publish wires stories, (and are probably given consent to publish
press
> releases if they want :-) but if the SMH lifted a story straight out of
the
> Australian they would find themselves in court before the day was out.
>
> That being said, the reality is you probably won't get in trouble for it,
> most sites won't care and many will consider it good publicity. Sending to
> your workmates you could raise the comparison of lending a newspaper, but
> publishing to Link it would be harder to argue that.
>
> James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bernard Robertson-Dunn" <brd@austarmetro.com.au>
> To: "Link" <link@www.anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:55 PM
> Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
>
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > If I copy a news article or web page from a source on the Internet and
> > distribute it (with attribution) via email to a bunch of people in my
> > company, am I breaking any copyright laws?
> >
> > What about to Link?
> >
> > --
> > Correlation is usually used when knowledge is incomplete, and many times
> it
> > leads to unsound conclusions. Every statistics student knows the story
of
> > the man who had a hangover after drinking scotch and water one night,
> > bourbon and water the second, and vodka and water the third. A
> statistician
> > advised him to stop drinking water.
> > -- unknown
> >
> > Regards
> > brd
> >
> > Bernard Robertson-Dunn
> > Canberra Australia
> > brd@austarmetro.com.au
> > ----------
> > For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
> This electronic mail is solely for the use of the addressee and may
contain
> information
> which is confidential or privileged.  If you receive this electronic mail
> in error, please
> delete it from your system immediately and notify the sender by electronic
> mail or using
> any of the following.
>
> Brendan Scott
> Lawyer
>
> GILBERT + TOBIN          Phone: +612 9263 4230
> GPO Box 3810                Facsimile: +612 9263 4111
> SYDNEY NSW 1042         Email: bscott@gtlaw.com.au
> AUSTRALIA                    Website: http://www.gtlaw.com.au
>
> Liability limited by the Solicitors Scheme approved under the Professional
> Standards
> Act 1994 (NSW).
>
> =======================================================================
>
>
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
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From danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au  Wed Sep 11 02:54:27 2002
From: danny@anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:54:27 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
Message-ID: <20020911125427.A10349@anatomy.usyd.edu.au>

I've started my own blog, though it's really just an archive of links
I've found interesting, with minimal commentary
	http://danny.oz.au/blog/
I'm following the approach and layout of Robot Wisdom 
	http://www.robotwisdom.com/

Danny.

----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From m.cunningham@chisholm.vic.edu.au  Wed Sep 11 03:47:55 2002
From: m.cunningham@chisholm.vic.edu.au (Michael Cunningham)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:47:55 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <sd7f4997.075@gwise.chisholm.vic.edu.au>

Well, that's exactly the problem with Napster etc. - some would argue
that the free and wide-open file-swapping of music (or whatever) in fact
enhances the marketplace.  Others (usually those closely associated with
collecting royalties on these products) tend to disagree.

In our commercial society, it has been agreed that the creator of an
original work is entitled to a slice of any profit that is generated
from the sale/use of that product. We can argue until the cows come home
(and beyond) about what constitutes an original work, and whether Bruce
Springsteen and Bill Gates and Harold Robbins earn too much money, but
those are other questions.

Journalists/reporters generally give up their syndication rights (and
online publication rights) when they sign on the bottom line with the
SMH or the Age or whatever, but they do usually retain the right to
include their own material in commercial anthologies they negotiate with
outside publishers.

So by emaiing articles from the online SMH, we are (in a legal sense)
ripping off the SMH, not the journalist. Not sure whether makes anyone
feel any better, though?

Michael.

>>> <bscott@gtlaw.com.au> Wednesday, 11 September 2002 11:59:42 >>>

Exam question 1:
How do these manifold restrictions on your rights contribute to the
goals
of the copyright regime (the provision of an incentive to the creation
of
works).  To put it another way, if you (and others) were not so
restricted,
and did in fact email out copies of articles (heaven forbid), would
the
creation of such works grind to a screaming halt?  If not, would their
creation be unduly inhibited?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTICE - This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information.  If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it immediately.
Under no circumstances does Chisholm Institute accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments.

This message has been scanned for viruses by VET Antivirus and content by MailMarshal.
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From bobb@soxkat.com  Wed Sep 11 03:54:45 2002
From: bobb@soxkat.com (Bob Bain)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:54:45 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209110901390.31891-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209110901390.31891-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <q8ftnucne9n2mtgvlfsf9kpaqnn9rhno2v@4ax.com>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:03:22 +1000, Michael Still wrote:

>> WT* is "blogging"?
>
>The righting of an oline diary which documents your otherwise inane
>life: http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/blog/

 Over 11,000 people in Australia have an on-line diary at:
http://www.livejournal.com.

 I'm not certain (I doubt) if the qualifies as "blogging".

 For an analysis of users by country:-

   http://www.livejournal.com/directory.bml

 It seems there are 202 users in the Vatican City Holy State (Holy
See). 

 Perhaps the Pope has an on-line diary... (??)

----------
Bob Bain
bobb@soxkat.com
www.soxkat.com/~bobb
Sydney Australia
----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Wed Sep 11 04:33:58 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:33:58 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <OF965EDF84.91360195-ONCA256C31.000A5905@gtlaw.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020911142934.022b10f0@pop.primenet.com>

At 11:59 AM 11/09/02 +1000, bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote:
>Exam question 1:
>How do these manifold restrictions on your rights contribute to the goals
>of the copyright regime (the provision of an incentive to the creation of
>works).  To put it another way, if you (and others) were not so restricted,
>and did in fact email out copies of articles (heaven forbid), would the
>creation of such works grind to a screaming halt?  If not, would their
>creation be unduly inhibited?

Aw, c'mon, Brendan!  You're being too logical.  You know the copyright act 
deals with maintaining rights of the owners [generally the publisher and 
less the author] and secondarily with the 'rights' of the reader to do 
anything other than read the material.  Besides, as soon as everything is 
handled under license and contract, there won't be any need for the Act 
anyway, except for those who are dead.

Anyone try to negotiate a shared copyright condition in a contract 
lately?  It ain't easy, even if you are the one who developed the material 
in the first place.  Even the ABC is requiring a full release.

Jan [who had a poem selected for the Outback Visions recordings and got a 
$25 cheque for it along with the release form; available in all fine ABC 
shoppes across the country later this year I'm told]


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Wed Sep 11 04:27:07 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:27:07 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <013c01c25932$b8f75910$e4e90ccb@meganmcauliffe>
References: <3D7D975A.A60902B8@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020911142610.022f4af0@pop.primenet.com>

At 11:29 AM 11/09/02 +1000, James Pearce wrote:
>but if the SMH lifted a story straight out of the
>Australian they would find themselves in court before the day was out.

or appearing on Media Watch :-)  David Maher seems to find this type of 
comparison 'the thing to do' at the moment, comparing who is ripping of 
whom, particularly if it's a commercial entity ripping off the ABC.

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From jbirch@multinode.com.au  Wed Sep 11 04:39:07 2002
From: jbirch@multinode.com.au (Jim Birch)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:39:07 +0800
Subject: [LINK] Best Blogs?
Message-ID: <3D7EC8EB.7080209@multinode.com.au>

Following on the blog topic what are people's favourites?  Mine:

www.robotwisdom.com - an original, with eclectic links to astronomy, 
literature, politics, technology, art, etc, etc
gimbo.org.uk - more personal, more amusing
johnquiggin.blogspot.com - pol-economy comment, analysis
www.diepunyhumans.com/blog.html - whacky

Jim






----------
For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

From pche@unimelb.edu.au  Wed Sep 11 05:35:16 2002
From: pche@unimelb.edu.au (Peter Chen)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:35:16 +1000
Subject: [LINK] 
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020911152309.00a4fa30@mail.staff.unimelb.edu.au>

Linkers / Cybergov folk,

         This just came across my desk, may be of interest to some - the 
symposium appears very broad, but is compressed into a one and one half day 
format.

Peter

--BEGIN--
"Building the E-Nation" - A Social Science Symposium

Call for Papers

On 24-25th April 2003, the Department of Sociology at Macquarie University 
and the Faculty of Social and Behavioural Sciences at the University of 
Queensland will be hosting a one and a half day Social Science symposium 
called Building the E-Nation.

The symposium will bring together a variety of disciplines within the 
social sciences from around Australasia to empirically and theoretically 
examine the issues concerning the internet, and new information and 
communication technologies (ICTs).

We seek empirical and theoretical contributions from scholars who are 
investigating the implications of e-community, e-government and e-commerce 
in the Australian context. While most papers should focus on internet 
technologies, papers dealing with other new ICTs are also welcome.

Themes

The three main presentation and dialogue sessions will be structured around 
the following concerns:

E-community.

¨       In what ways are ICTs being introduced into communities and for 
what purpose are they being used?

¨       How does the use of the internet reconfigure ideas and notions of 
community? For example, in terms of space, and the dichotomy of reality and 
virtuality?

¨       How are ICTs reconfiguring social relations and the experience of 
gender, age, race and class?

¨       In what ways are ICTs linked with aspirations and experiences of 
civil participation, the leisure/work interplay, religion and spirituality, 
subjectivity and meaning, social activism?
E-government.

¨       In what ways are ICTs reconfiguring rationalities and practices of 
government, including the nature of government service delivery, practices 
of control and surveillance, the achievement of participatory democracy, 
forms of government accountability and the nature of the state?

¨       What does it mean to be governed in a network society?

¨       To what governmental purposes are ICTs being enrolled?

¨       What are the public policy issues that ICTs give rise to?

¨       What roles do ICTs play in governmental concerns of security, 
policing, border protection, taxation, war and the like?

¨       In what way are new ICTs changing political engagement and the 
activity of politics?
E-commerce.

¨       In what ways are businesses adopting ICTs and for what purposes?

¨       How does the use of ICTs reconfigure exchange relations and the 
nature of money?

¨       What is the experience of the work/leisure relationship in the 
network society?

¨       What do ICTs contribute to marketing practices and the capacity to 
govern the consumer?

¨       Does e-commerce represent enhanced consumer technologies, or simply 
a means to downscale services for low-profit areas?

¨       What are the differential effects of e-commerce on various members 
and sectors of society?

¨       How are ICTs being incorporated into stories of economic globalisation?

Timetable

Expressions of interest by a short 200 word abstract:   due 31 October 2002.

Extended abstracts (1500-2000 words) for
selected papers:                                                due 28 
February 2003.

Final papers:                                                   due 30 
March 2003

Symposium details

Date:           24-25 April 2003

Location:       Sydney

Contacts

Expressions of interest and any questions regarding the symposium can be 
directed to the organisers:

Angela Coco
Faculty of Social and Behavioural Sciences
Ipswich Campus
University of Queensland  QLD  4072
07 3262 1639 (p) 0410 685 250 (mob)
A.Coco@mailbox.uq.edu.au

Paul Henman
Department of Sociology
Macquarie University  NSW  2109
02 9850 8239 (p)
02 9850 9355 (f)
Paul.Henman@mq.edu.au

--END--



_ __________________ _

Dr Peter Chen
  Centre for Public Policy
  Department of Political Science
  Faculty of Arts
  University of Melbourne
  +61 (0)3 8344 3505 (phone)
  +61 (0)3 8344 7906 (fax)
  pche@unimelb.edu.au
  www.politics.unimelb.edu.au

----------
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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep 11 05:44:46 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:44:46 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC6D@EXCHANGE_AU>

> Anyone try to negotiate a shared copyright condition in a contract 
> lately?  It ain't easy, even if you are the one who developed 
> the material 
> in the first place.  Even the ABC is requiring a full release.

Exam Question 2:
"To what extent are moves to constrain copyright by contract a response to
abuse of authors' rights in the digital age?"
RC

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jan Whitaker [mailto:jwhit@PrimeNet.Com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 14:34
> To: bscott@gtlaw.com.au
> Cc: Link
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Copyright question
> 
> 
> At 11:59 AM 11/09/02 +1000, bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote:
> >Exam question 1:
> >How do these manifold restrictions on your rights contribute 
> to the goals
> >of the copyright regime (the provision of an incentive to 
> the creation of
> >works).  To put it another way, if you (and others) were not 
> so restricted,
> >and did in fact email out copies of articles (heaven 
> forbid), would the
> >creation of such works grind to a screaming halt?  If not, 
> would their
> >creation be unduly inhibited?
> 
> Aw, c'mon, Brendan!  You're being too logical.  You know the 
> copyright act 
> deals with maintaining rights of the owners [generally the 
> publisher and 
> less the author] and secondarily with the 'rights' of the 
> reader to do 
> anything other than read the material.  Besides, as soon as 
> everything is 
> handled under license and contract, there won't be any need 
> for the Act 
> anyway, except for those who are dead.
> 
> Anyone try to negotiate a shared copyright condition in a contract 
> lately?  It ain't easy, even if you are the one who developed 
> the material 
> in the first place.  Even the ABC is requiring a full release.
> 
> Jan [who had a poem selected for the Outback Visions 
> recordings and got a 
> $25 cheque for it along with the release form; available in 
> all fine ABC 
> shoppes across the country later this year I'm told]
> 
> 
> JLWhitaker Associates
> Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
> jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm
> 
> 
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
> 
----------
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From link@amoisonic.com.cn  Wed Sep 11 06:14:04 2002
From: link@amoisonic.com.cn (=?GB2312?B?sbG6vS+7qtbQL8flu6q/qreizcW20w==?=)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:14:04 +0800
Subject: [LINK] =?GB2312?B?z8i/qreiwvrS4rrzuLa/7ii7qtbQL7Gxur2/qreizcW20w==?=
Message-ID: <200209110614.g8B6EPfH005577@anu.edu.au>

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½¨ÖþÁìÓò½¨Ä£×÷ͼºÍ»æͼ¡¢µØÕð·´·ÖÎö¡¢Ë®¿âÌØÐÔ·ÖÎöÒÔ¼°½ü±íÃæÕÛÉä·ÖÎö¡¢Ê¯ÓÍ¿±Ì½¡¢Æø¶¯Á÷Ìå·ÖÎöÄ£Äâ¡¢Ä;ÃÐÔÆ£ÀÍÊÙÃü·ÖÎö¡¢²ÄÁÏÊý¾ÝÐÅϢϵͳ¡¢¹¤Òµ²úÆ·ÔìÐÍÈí¼þ¡¢²úÆ·¸ÅÄîÉè¼Æ¡¢²úÆ·Êý¾Ý¹ÜÀí¹¤¾ß¡¢Êý¾Ý½á¹¹¹ÜÀí¡¢Êý×ÖÑù»ú¡¢ÄæÏò¹¤³Ì¡¢ÇúÃæÔìÐÍ¡¢ÈýάÊý×Ö»¯Éè¼Æ¹¤¾ß¡¢¹¤³ÌÁ÷Ì嶯̬·ÖÎö¡¢¶¯Ì¬×é×°¡¢Èýά»ú¹¹¶¯Ì¬·ÂÕæ¡¢»úеÔ˶¯·ÂÕ桢ͼֽʸÁ¿»¯Èí¼þ¡¢¼Ó¹¤Ä£Äâ¡¢Èýά¸¡µñºÍµñ¿Ì¡¢¸ß¼¶·ÇÏßÐԽṹÓÐÏÞÔª·ÖÎöϵͳ¡¢¶¯Á¦Ñ§·ÖÎöÈí¼þ¡¢Ä£Á÷·ÖÎöϵͳ¡¢ÓÐÏÞÔª·ÖÎö¡¢µç´Å·ÖÎö¡¢»úеϵͳ¶¯Á¦Ñ§·ÖÎöÈí¼þ¡¢¸ßƵµç×Ó·ÖÎöÉè¼Æ¡¢Ôì´¬¼Ó¹¤Èí¼þ¡¢¹¤³§Éè¼ÆºÍ¹¤³§Êý¾Ýά»¤¡¢¹¤³ÌÔ¤ËãÈí¼þ¡¢¹ÉƱ·ÖÎöÈí¼þ¡¢Ó°Ïó¹¤×÷Õ¾Èí¼þ¡¢½ðÏàͼÏó·ÖÎöÈí¼þ................................................
----------
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From jmorris@intercode.com.au  Wed Sep 11 06:24:50 2002
From: jmorris@intercode.com.au (James Morris)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:24:50 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Best Blogs?
In-Reply-To: <3D7EC8EB.7080209@multinode.com.au>
Message-ID: <Mutt.LNX.4.44.0209111619340.970-100000@blackbird.intercode.com.au>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Jim Birch wrote:

> Following on the blog topic what are people's favourites?

I'm not a huge blog fan, but have found Ali Davis's True Porn Clerk 
Stories to be a really great read:
http://www.improvisation.ws/mb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4475

Obviously, don't load this page if you're likely to be offended or fired.


- James
-- 
James Morris
<jmorris@intercode.com.au>


----------
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From bobb@soxkat.com  Wed Sep 11 06:26:04 2002
From: bobb@soxkat.com (Bob Bain)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:26:04 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <q8ftnucne9n2mtgvlfsf9kpaqnn9rhno2v@4ax.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209110901390.31891-100000@localhost.localdomain> <q8ftnucne9n2mtgvlfsf9kpaqnn9rhno2v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <b8otnugmqb5ojqdvg8nnrqgp2p64uvd3s9@4ax.com>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:54:45 +1000, I wrote:

> It seems there are 202 users in the Vatican City Holy State (Holy
>See). 

> Perhaps the Pope has an on-line diary... (??)

 Somewhat tongue in cheek I would imagine but it appears "Pope-Karol
Wojtyla" has a livejournal diary at:-

  http://www.livejournal.com/users/pope

 *Warning*  Some of the comments in this diary could be offensive to
some.

----------
Bob Bain
bobb@soxkat.com
www.soxkat.com/~bobb
Sydney Australia
----------
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From stephen@melbpc.org.au  Wed Sep 11 11:37:32 2002
From: stephen@melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:37:32 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Off-topic for Link, but seems good news ..
Message-ID: <200209111140.g8BBe8S2067116@relay1.melbpc.org.au>

Hi there,

An Australian Stock Exchange announcement at 4.35pm today.

This hasn't got a lot to do with the Internet, but this new scheme
may tap into sufficient thermal energy, which, when converted into
electricity, can supply all of Australia's electricity needs for 75 years.

And ... with *zero* greenhouse gas emissions. 

The ANU have a slice of it. It would appear a smart move to me.
(Note: I have no connection with this company at all, and I'm not
offering investment advice; am simply another planet-earth citizen.
So, perhaps we could sign Kyoto a lot sooner than we expected)

--

http://www.australianinvestor.com.au/ftools.asp?toolId=34

GEODYNAMICS LIMITED
2002-09-11  ASX-SIGNAL-G

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

* First listed company to acquire geothermal energy licences under
pioneering legislation in South Australia.

* Resource potential with heat equivalent to 50 billion barrels of oil.

* HDR geothermal electricity can operate on 24 / 7 basis with zero
emissions of greenhouse gases.

* Mobilisation to site for field work within 2 months.

* Approximately 800 shareholders following IPO.

HDR GEOTHERMAL ELECTRICITY

Geodynamics Limited (ASX code: GDY) is now preparing Stage One
of its hot dry rock (HDR) geothermal electricity project. This is the first
step of Geodynamics' overall vision of becoming the largest renewable
electricity producer in Australia.

The projected all-up costs of producing HDR geothermal electricity
from Geodynamics' high temperature tenements is estimated to be lower
than hydro, wind, biomass or solar alternatives. In addition, unlike
many other renewable sources, HDR electricity can operate on a 24
hour per day, 7 day per week basis and therefore provide electricity
to higher revenue base-load customers.

Geodynamics is taking advantage of three factors that have only come
together recently:

1. IDENTIFICATION OF THE WORLD CLASS ENERGY
RESOURCES IN THE COOPER BASIN.

The core resource for HDR geothermal energy is naturally occurring
heat within buried granitic rocks. Recovery of electricity from HDR
geothermal sources is effectively a heat transfer process with zero
emissions, unlike fossil fuels such as oil, coal or gas that rely on
the burning of carbon to liberate heat.

Oil and gas drilling in the Cooper Basin over the past thirty years
discovered Geodynamics' HDR energy resource. The availability of
information from five wells and gravity and seismic data has provided
Geodynamics with approximately $20 million of data on the granite and
its temperature. The drilling located massive granite rocks at depths
of approximately 3,500 metres along with extremely high temperatures
of 232 to 245 degrees Celsius near the top of the granite. These
temperatures were noted then as amongst the highest in the world at
this depth. Even higher temperatures will be experienced deeper in
the granite.

The Australian energy market has only just begun to realise the scale
and potential environmental advantages of this energy source.


2. TITLE TO RESOURCE OWNED BY GEODYNAMICS

In a pioneering move to accelerate the development of the Cooper
Basin HDR resource, the South Australian Government offered
Geothermal Exploration Licences for the first time in early 2001.
Geodynamics was successful in acquiring one block (GEL 98) in that
competitive tender. Since then, Geodynamics has alsoacquired the
adjacent block (GEL 97).

These two tenements cover an area of 985 square kilometres. The
contained heat (thermal) energy is enormous. Geodynamics estimates
that the stored thermal energy within an accessible 1000 m thick slab
of granite within GEL's 97 and 98 is equivalent to 50 billion barrels
of oil. By comparison, the proved oil reserves in the USA are
estimated at approximately 30 billion barrels, and for Australia, 3
billion barrels.

To put this into perspective, this amount of thermal energy could,
when converted into electricity, supply 100% of Australia's
electricity needs for 75 years.

3. NEW FINANCIAL INCENTIVES FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY

The Australian Federal Government, like many other Governments in
developed countries is providing financial incentives for greenhouse
gas friendly sources of electricity. HDR geothermal energy meets the
requirements of the Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act 2000...

As an illustration of the attractiveness of Geodynamics project, the
Cooper Basin has a granite temperature of 250 degrees C or more
at 4,000 metres depth compared with the European Union HDR
project in France of only 170 degrees C.

SHARE HOLDING OF GEODYNAMICS

Following the IPO, Geodynamics has approximately 800 shareholders.
The five largest shareholders are:

Metasource                         31.6%
CVC REEF Limited                    8.4%
The Australian National University  7.9%
Commonwealth Custodial Services     3.0%
RBC Global Services Australia       1.5%

DEVELOPMENT UNDERWAY

The process of testing and developing the HDR resource in the Cooper
Basin will commence immediately. The first step is drilling of
Geodynamics #1 well, located approximately 8 km south of Innamincka.
The drilling contract is now being finalised with mobilisation
planned within 2 months.

B de Graaf
MANAGING DIRECTOR
Contact 07 3876 8955 or 0417 767 277


----------
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From mgm-ns@tardis.net  Wed Sep 11 11:44:03 2002
From: mgm-ns@tardis.net (Malcolm Miles)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:44:03 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
In-Reply-To: <a0510030db9a42e526a53@[192.168.2.23]>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0209110838120.3417-100000@int.lannet.com.au> <a0510030db9a42e526a53@[192.168.2.23]>
Message-ID: <n2bunu86f0vd58k8q2mhse3dvof0bj024l@4ax.com>

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:22:27 +1000, you wrote:

>At 08:39 +1000 11/9/02, Howard Lowndes wrote:
>>WT* is "blogging"?
>
>Probably not age, Howard, just ignorance. ;) Even old people blog...

Even our Prime Minister does http://johnhoward.blogspot.com/.

-- 
Best wishes,
Malcolm

----------
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From annm@exocat.com.au  Wed Sep 11 13:51:13 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:51:13 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020911104923.06583ec0@pop>
Message-ID: <007d01c2599a$4ef7e620$d8218790@telstra.com>

come on adam,

surely you know that the reason there is a shortage of wws in the world is
because the outgoing administration stole all wws from the keyboards before
the shrub's administration too over!!

peace & love

annm
************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Todd" <at@ah.net>
To: "Chirgwin, Richard" <Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au>; "Mail List -
LINK" <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: [LINK] Is my ignorance (or age) showing?...


> At 09:27 11/09/02 +1000, Chirgwin, Richard wrote:
> >And a contraction of "Weblog", ie "Weblogging" becomes "blogging" for
those
> >who are thrifty with their syllables.
> >
> >(I suspect there's a wordwide shortage of w and e at the moment. Definite
>
> No kidding.  It's all those www's out there using up the characters.  And
> all that e-commernce has used most of the e's too.
>
> b is a viable character presently, but don't worry the pr^hawn industry
> will see it's benefits soon enough and take it over.
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/

----------
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From annm@exocat.com.au  Wed Sep 11 14:14:44 2002
From: annm@exocat.com.au (Ann Moffatt)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:14:44 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020911142934.022b10f0@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c2599d$97fbe300$d8218790@telstra.com>

jan wrote

'Anyone try to negotiate a shared copyright condition in a contract
lately?  It ain't easy, even if you are the one who developed the material
in the first place.  Even the ABC is requiring a full release.'

having been involved in a big study for the AG on the australian copyright
collecting societies, i think the current system stinks!! have a look at
some of the annual reports of the societies-if you can make head or tail of
them!! most of the money goes to administering/legal costs etc, very little
money gets to the rights owners.

the study i was involved in was done in 1994. i pointed out that the www
would need special consideration with respect to copyright esp copyright in
records. i was told not to be silly!!

if i had my way we'd do away with the current copyright laws. i don't think
they serve rights owners well. i was hoping that more & more would be
'published' on the www & we'd find a good way to handle micro payments. its
happening but only very slowly!!

if grabbing a bit of info from the web resulted in a micro payment to the
owner that didn't cost the earth to collect then i think copyright would
die.

peace & love

annm

************************************
Ann Moffatt
EXoCaT Pty Ltd
49 Raintree Avenue
BURRUM HEADS QLD 4659
tel +61 (0) 7 4129 5796
fax +61 (0) 7 4129 5916
***********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Whitaker" <jwhit@PrimeNet.Com>
To: <bscott@gtlaw.com.au>
Cc: "Link" <link@www.anu.edu.au>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Copyright question


> At 11:59 AM 11/09/02 +1000, bscott@gtlaw.com.au wrote:
> >Exam question 1:
> >How do these manifold restrictions on your rights contribute to the goals
> >of the copyright regime (the provision of an incentive to the creation of
> >works).  To put it another way, if you (and others) were not so
restricted,
> >and did in fact email out copies of articles (heaven forbid), would the
> >creation of such works grind to a screaming halt?  If not, would their
> >creation be unduly inhibited?
>
> Aw, c'mon, Brendan!  You're being too logical.  You know the copyright act
> deals with maintaining rights of the owners [generally the publisher and
> less the author] and secondarily with the 'rights' of the reader to do
> anything other than read the material.  Besides, as soon as everything is
> handled under license and contract, there won't be any need for the Act
> anyway, except for those who are dead.
>
> Anyone try to negotiate a shared copyright condition in a contract
> lately?  It ain't easy, even if you are the one who developed the material
> in the first place.  Even the ABC is requiring a full release.
>
> Jan [who had a poem selected for the Outback Visions recordings and got a
> $25 cheque for it along with the release form; available in all fine ABC
> shoppes across the country later this year I'm told]
>
>
> JLWhitaker Associates
> Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
> jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm
>
>
> ----------
> For Link list information see http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/link/
>

----------
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From karl.auer@id.ethz.ch  Wed Sep 11 14:45:38 2002
From: karl.auer@id.ethz.ch (Auer, Karl James)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:45:38 +0200
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <DE0C030726A41142B6F9F08BA2F730DB037EC937@groupw4.d.ethz.ch>

> jan wrote
> 'Anyone try to negotiate a shared copyright condition in a contract
> lately?  It ain't easy, even if you are the one who developed 
> the material in the first place.  Even the ABC is requiring a full
> release.'

Funny how simple the answer is, but like all simple answers, it's hard to implement. It's this: Creators of works don't sell or give away their copyright except on their terms.

Publishers need content; they are even prepared to pay for it. But that they then own that content, exclusively and in perpetuity, is a condition that no content creator has to accept. Far better is a limited reproduction right, renegotiable at agreed intervals and preferably non-exclusive.

Regards, K.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karl Auer (karl.auer@id.ethz.ch)             Geschaeft/work +41-1-6327531
Kommunikation, ETHZ RZ                          Privat/home +41-43-2660706
Clausiusstrasse 59 CH-8092 ZUERICH Switzerland          Fax +41-1-6321225
            Eidgenoessische Technische Hochschule, Zuerich


----------
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From frank.omenka@caramail.com  Wed Sep 11 18:23:50 2002
From: frank.omenka@caramail.com (frank omenka)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:23:50 GMT+1
Subject: [LINK] IMMEDIATE RESPONSE
Message-ID: <1031761430015824@caramail.com>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment
FROM THE DESK OF DR. FRANK OMENKA.ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK 
LTD,LAGOS-NIGERIA.
EMAIL:frank.omenka@caramail.com
 DEAR SIR,
 STRICTLY A PRIVATE BUSINESS PROPOSAL
I AM DR FRANK OMENKA, THE MANAGER, BILLS AND
EXCHANGE AT THE FOREIGN REMITTANCE DEPARTMENT OF THE
ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK LTD.I AM WRITING
THIS LETTER TO ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND COOPERATION
TO CARRY OUT THIS BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY IN MY
DEPARTMENT. WE DISCOVERED AN ABANDONED SUM OF
$15,000,000.00 (FIFTEEN MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS
ONLY) IN AN ACCOUNT THAT BELONGS TO ONE OF OUR FOREIGN
CUSTOMERS WHO DIED ALONG WITH HIS ENTIRE FAMILY OF A
WIFE AND TWO CHILDREN IN NOVEMBER 1997 IN A PLANE CRASH.
SINCE WE HEARD! OF HIS DEATH, WE HAVE BEEN EXPECTING HIS
NEXT-OF-KIN TO COME OVER AND PUT CLAIMS FOR HIS MONEY
AS THE HEIR,BECAUSE WE CANNOT RELEASE THE FUND FROM
HIS ACCOUNT UNLESS SOMEONE APPLIES FOR CLAIM AS THE
NEXT-OF-KIN TO THE DECEASED AS INDICATED IN OUR
BANKING GUIDELINES. UNFORTUNATELY, NEITHER THEIR
FAMILY MEMBER NOR DISTANT RELATIVE HAS EVER APPEARED TO
CLAIM THE SAID FUND. UPON THIS DISCOVERY,I AND OTHER
OFFICIALS IN MY DEPARTMENT HAVE AGREED TO MAKE
BUSINESS WITHYOU AND RELEASE THE TOTAL AMOUNT INTO
YOUR ACCOUNT AS THE HEIR OF THE FUND SINCE NO ONE CAME
FOR IT OR DISCOVERED HE MAINTAINED ACCOUNT WITH
OUR BANK, OTHERWISE THE FUND WILL BE RETURNED TO THE
BANKS TREASURY ASUNCLAIMED FUND.WE HAVE AGREED THAT 
OURRATIO OF SHARING WILL BE
AS STATED THUS;30 % FOR YOU AS FOREIGN PARTNER,60 % FOR US
THE OFFICIALS IN MY DEPARTMENT AND10% FOR THE SETTLEMENT
OF ALL LOCAL AND FOREIGNEXPENCES INCURRED BY US AND YOU
DURI! NG THE COURSE OF THIS BUSINESS. UPON THE SUCCESSFUL
COMPLETION OF THIS TRANSFER, I AND ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES
WILL COME TO YOUR COUNTRY AND MIND OUR SHARE. IT
IS FROM OUR 60 % WE INTEND TO IMPORT AGRICULTURAL
MACHINERIES INTO MY COUNTRY AS A WAY OF RECYCLING THE
FUND. TO COMMENCE THIS TRANSACTION, WEREQUIRE YOU TO
IMMEDIATELY INDICATE YOUR INTEREST BY A RETURN E-MAIL
AND ENCLOSE YOUR PRIVATE CONTACT TELEPHONE NUMBER, FAX
NUMBER FULL NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOUR DESIGNATED
BANK COORDINATES TO ENABLE US FILE LETTER OF CLAIM TO
THE APPROPRIATE DEPARTMENTS FOR NECESSARY APPROVALS
BEFORE THE TRANSFER CAN BE MADE. NOTE ALSO, THIS
TRANSACTION MUST BE KEPT STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL BECAUSE
OFITS NATURE.
I LOOK FORWARD TO RECEIVING YOUR PROMPT RESPONSE.
DR FRANK OMENKA.
ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK LTD.

______________________________________________________
Bo=EEte aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment--

----------
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From jayesh@eliteconferences.com  Wed Sep 11 21:41:19 2002
From: jayesh@eliteconferences.com (Elite Conference)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:11:19 +0530
Subject: [LINK] Indian Petrochem 2002  
Message-ID: <200209112145.23w9r9A@eliteconferences.com>  

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/attachments/53cabec6/attachment.htm
From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Wed Sep 11 22:26:21 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:26:21 +1000
Subject: [LINK] spam haikus
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020912082502.022c5be0@pop.primenet.com>

at least we would be 'entertained'

>    A company named Habeas intends to help block spam by
>        including a copyrighted haiku in their e-mail headers.
>                       For the full story see
>      <http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,54645,00.html>
>
>             Kinda makes you wonder: how will the spammers
>                     respond with their own haiku?
>
>                         The Top  Spam Haikus
>
>   9> Amateur teen girls
>      Friendly barnyard animals
>      Fornicate for you
>
>   8> Are you gullible?
>      Please send us your money, NOW!
>      We give you nothing
>
>   7> Forward this letter
>      To at least ten buddies and
>      Bill Gates will pay you
>
>   6> I roll in wealth now
>      Laws touch me not, nor conscience
>      I love stupid folk
>
>   5> Little boy who's sick
>      Wants many business cards
>      Please mail to clinic
>
>   4> Saplings stretch upward
>      Growing toward heaven's bliss
>      Buy Horny Goat Weed
>
>   3> Interest rates fall
>      Petals on the still water
>      Refinance mortgage
>
>   2> Is your mighty oak
>      A gnarly, withered bonsai?
>      You need Viagra

[and the favourite....ta da-da dah: ]

>   1> Send us money now
>      Or we sell your address to
>      Four dozen MORE lists
>
>                [   Copyright 2002 by Chris White    ]
>                [       http://www.topfive.com       ]

JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From m.lean@qut.edu.au  Wed Sep 11 22:46:35 2002
From: m.lean@qut.edu.au (Michael Lean)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:46:35 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <DE0C030726A41142B6F9F08BA2F730DB037EC937@groupw4.d.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020912084308.00adc170@pop.qut.edu.au>

I couldn't agree more, but this is not an easy thing to negotiate. In the 
world of academic publishing, publishers tend to have the upper hand, due 
to the need people have to be published.

>An academic sent a paper off to a learned journal. Much to his delight, he 
>received a letter from the publisher, saying that his paper had been found 
>to be excellent, and that the publisher wished to publish it the next 
>issue of the journal, and would the academic be happy with a fee of $50?
>
>The publisher duly received the completed assignment of copyright, and 
>pinned to it was the academic's cheque for $50!

Funny? I dunno.
Mike



At 04:45 PM 11/09/2002 +0200, Auer, Karl James wrote:
>Publishers need content; they are even prepared to pay for it. But that 
>they then own that content, exclusively and in perpetuity, is a condition 
>that no content creator has to accept. Far better is a limited 
>reproduction right, renegotiable at agreed intervals and preferably 
>non-exclusive.

Michael M. Lean JP (Qual)
University Copyright Officer
Griffith University and Queensland University of Technology
Brisbane, Australia
  Phone 07 3864 4024 Fax 07 3864 1823

...the raison d'etre of the web, both in its  utopian and capitalist 
manifestations, is the click; to resist the click is to resist the web. Who 
would want to do a thing like that?
Keith Gessen  "The New Write"  in The Australian 30/5/01

----------
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From jwhit@PrimeNet.Com  Wed Sep 11 23:05:49 2002
From: jwhit@PrimeNet.Com (Jan Whitaker)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:05:49 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020912084308.00adc170@pop.qut.edu.au>
References: <DE0C030726A41142B6F9F08BA2F730DB037EC937@groupw4.d.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020912090449.022d8610@pop.primenet.com>

At 08:46 AM 12/09/02 +1000, Michael Lean wrote:
>>The publisher duly received the completed assignment of copyright, and 
>>pinned to it was the academic's cheque for $50!
>
>Funny? I dunno.

I understand that publishing fees are not unheard of in academic journals. 
I think we're in a really sad state that this is the case.  So no, not 
funny, Mike.

Jan


JLWhitaker Associates
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwhit@primenet.com  --  http://www.primenet.com/~jwhit/whitentr.htm


----------
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Wed Sep 11 23:06:28 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:06:28 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
References: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC6D@EXCHANGE_AU>
Message-ID: <3D7FCC74.21382609@austarmetro.com.au>

Thank you to everyone who shed some light onto this murky issue.

I think I'll just carry on as normal until someone tells me to stop.

-- 
If there be one principle more deeply rooted than any other in the mind of
every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Wed Sep 11 23:12:05 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:12:05 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Online Gaming in Greece Throws the Baby Out with the 
 Bathwater
References: <3D75B3D7.43D31BDB@praxis.com.au>
Message-ID: <3D7FCDC5.889A80A1@austarmetro.com.au>


Greek gaming law defeated in court
By Matt Loney
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
September 11, 2002, 10:46 AM PT
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-957519.html?tag=fd_top

A new Greek law banning the playing of electronic games was declared
unconstitutional by a judge, and the charges against three people were
dismissed.

The decision by a judge in Thessaloniki, Greece, could eventually result in
the law being repealed, according to reports in the local press.

Before Tuesday's decision, computer game players and Internet cafe owners
in Greece said they would fight the law. According to opponents, the law
was conceived to address illicit gambling but was written so broadly that
playing any electronic game could be considered illegal.

Indeed, the three people released Tuesday operated or worked at Internet
cafes, and, according to a Greek news Web site, the police officers who
searched the cafes testified that they did not observe any Internet
gambling going on--just customers playing chess and other non-gambling
games over the Internet.

A draft of the bill, which was brought before the Greek parliament at the
end of May, stated clearly that all games supported by electrical,
electromechanical and software means were banned from public places,
according to Nikos Kakayanis, managing director of a string of Internet
cafes called The Web. A board member of The Web, Christos Iordanidis, was
among those facing charges Tuesday.

When the bill was discussed again in July, said Kakayanis, "a member of the
opposition party expressed concern that it would only be a matter of time
before the owners of illegal gambling machines moved whatever machines they
were using for gambling (coin-ops, PCs, consoles) from their stores (to)
private places." As a result, the law was modified to include every private
place as well, said Kakayanis.

"Nobody from the members of the parliament realized or could foresee the
effects that this would have for PC games, Internet games and game
consoles, simply because they are not familiar with that side of
technology," Kakayanis added. The bill became law July 30.

Each of the three people charged with violating the law faced up to three
months imprisonment and a fine of about $5,000.

-- 
If you haven’t found something strange during the day, it hasn’t been much
of a day.
-- John Archibald Wheeler

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
----------
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From eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au  Wed Sep 11 23:22:12 2002
From: eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:22:12 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <200209112322.g8BNMHfG011870@anu.edu.au>

From: Auer, Karl James <karl.auer@id.ethz.ch> (12/9/02 12:45 AM)
>Funny how simple the answer is, but like all simple answers, it's hard to 
>implement. It's this: Creators of works don't sell or give away their 
>copyright except on their terms.
>
>Publishers need content; they are even prepared to pay for it. But that 
>they then own that content, exclusively and in perpetuity, is a condition 
>that no content creator has to accept. Far better is a limited 
>reproduction right, renegotiable at agreed intervals and preferably 
>non-exclusive.

Unfortunately, for most unpublished content it's a buyers market. If you 
don't want to agree giving up your full copyright on some short poem, 
they can likely find some other content to fill the space.

e.

______________________________________________________________________
eric@ironclad.net.au                 i r o n c l a d   n e t w o r k s
information architect                      http://www.ironclad.net.au/


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From Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au  Wed Sep 11 23:31:04 2002
From: Richard.Chirgwin@informa.com.au (Chirgwin, Richard)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:31:04 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Kiddie chip was a fraud...
Message-ID: <9BD4AE8C2EB1D311982700508BA2498902A4DC6F@EXCHANGE_AU>

I predicted (feared?) that Kevin Warwick's trash would get a run in serious
media, like:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/03/1030953453352.html
Girls' murders sparks plea for child tracking implants

...as well as the ABC's swallow-it-all coverage.

Well: the story gets unmasked by a journalist in Scotland (here via the
Reg):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27071.html
>Professor Kevin Warwick is a media tart, and the kiddie chip that won
worldwide 
>publicity last week probably does not exist. These nuggets have been
unearthed by 
>Stephen Naysmith, Science Correspondent of the Scottish Sunday Herald,
whose 
>report <http://www.sundayherald.com/27519> we warmly recommend to Warwick 
>watchers everywhere. 

>From the Scottish Sunday Herald story:
>The implant story was promoted not by the university, but by INS News Group

>of Reading, which wanted to charge the Sunday Herald £75 to speak to 
>Professor Warwick for 10 minutes. 

Any comment on my part would be schaudenfreude...
RC
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From kauer@biplane.com.au  Wed Sep 11 23:41:17 2002
From: kauer@biplane.com.au (Karl Auer)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:41:17 +0200
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
In-Reply-To: <200209112322.g8BNMHfG011870@anu.edu.au>
References: <200209112322.g8BNMHfG011870@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20020912014117.31db8120.kauer@biplane.com.au>

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:22:12 +1000, Eric Scheid <eric.scheid@ironclad.net.au> wrote:

> From: Auer, Karl James <karl.auer@id.ethz.ch> (12/9/02 12:45 AM)
> >Funny how simple the answer is, but like all simple answers, it's hard to 
> >implement. It's this: Creators of works don't sell or give away their 
> >copyright except on their terms.
>
> Unfortunately, for most unpublished content it's a buyers market. If you 
> don't want to agree giving up your full copyright on some short poem, 
> they can likely find some other content to fill the space.

Of course! That's the problem. But creators can't have it both ways. And the current laws actually favour them, strongly - as long as they hold onto their copyrights. It does take a bit of organising - but look! What's that? Gosh, it's an Internet, I wonder what we can use that for....?

Regards, K.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au)                   +41-43-2660706 (h)
http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/                  +41- 1-6327531 (w)
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From grove@zeta.org.au  Wed Sep 11 23:49:11 2002
From: grove@zeta.org.au (Rachel Polanskis)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:49:11 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] Online Gaming in Greece Throws the Baby Out with the 
 Bathwater
In-Reply-To: <3D7FCDC5.889A80A1@austarmetro.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.40.0209120948370.20860-100000@isis.virago.org.au>

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote:

> A new Greek law banning the playing of electronic games was declared
> unconstitutional by a judge, and the charges against three people were
> dismissed.


More backflips than a bucket of Sea Monkeys........


rachel

-- 
Rachel Polanskis                 Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia
grove@zeta.org.au                http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html
      "People don't say sorry in this country" - Max Connors (Seachange)

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From bscott@gtlaw.com.au  Thu Sep 12 00:33:00 2002
From: bscott@gtlaw.com.au (Brendan Scott)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:33:00 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright question
Message-ID: <3D7FE0BC.31C24202@gtlaw.com.au>

Keeping my devil's advocate hat on for the time being...

I think this discussion leads on to the Supplementary Question:

In light of your answer to the previous question what do you consider to
be the primary design goal of copyright: (a) to provide an incentive for
the creation of works?; (b) to provide an incentive for the distribution
of works?

In relation to (a), bonus marks will be awarded for a detailed
description of the crucial role played by the $25 and $50 incentives in
the creation of works referred to in Jan and Michael's respective
emails. 

Brendan
----------
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From m.lean@qut.edu.au  Thu Sep 12 00:39:41 2002
From: m.lean@qut.edu.au (Michael Lean)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:39:41 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Copyright debate (was Copyright Question)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020912103425.00ae1d60@pop.qut.edu.au>

Linkers,
Interesting article in The Chronicle of Higher Education -
definitely worth a read.
Mike


>Vaidhyanathan, Siva.  "[48]Copyright as Cudgel"  [49]The Chronicle
>      of Higher Education   48(47) (2 August 2002)
>      (http://chronicle.com/free/v48/i47/47b00701.htm). - This forcefully
>      argued opinion piece on the state of copyright pulls no punches.
>      And for good reason. It isn't pretty what has happened since
>      legislation such as the Digital Millenium Copyright Act and the
>      Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act have become law.
>      Vaidhyanathan cites a number of examples to explain why he thinks
>      of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act as "reckless, poorly
>      thought out, and with gravely censorious consequences." Most
>      librarians would have to agree. But this piece is aimed squarely at
>      academics -- faculty and researchers who have largely been on the
>      sidelines of the war being fought by librarians, civil libertarians
>      and others trying to wrest copyright back to its constitutional
>      origins. Those origins can be found in Section 8, "Powers Granted
>      to Congress", to wit, "To promote the progress of science and
>      useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors
>      the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."
>      The phrase "limited times" Congress now interprets to mean roughly
>      a century -- 100 years until a work enters the public domain. Add
>      to that the serious damage that these laws do to principles such as
>      first sale and fair use, and it's no wonder we're at war.

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From brd@austarmetro.com.au  Thu Sep 12 04:17:52 2002
From: brd@austarmetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:17:52 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Articles in CIO magazine on government IT
Message-ID: <3D801570.4596F39C@austarmetro.com.au>

In CIO Magazine, a whole bunch of articles about e-government & IT and
outsourcing in government.

Topic Centres: Government
http://cio.idg.com.au/idg2.nsf/cio_Keyword?OpenView&NavArea=Topic+Centres&SelectedCategoryName=Government&Start=2

You Can't Outsource City Hall
TOM FIELD
In the US, the state and local government outsourcing marketplace was
supposed to explode, but as yet there isn't even a spark. Is large-scale
outsourcing unworkable in the public sector?
More...

To Secure and Protect 02/09/2002 14:37
In the US, government CIOs are on the front lines defending IT
infrastructure and information security. But the rules of engagement are
still emerging here. More...

The Integration Imperative 02/09/2002 14:30
Integration is no longer a choice - it's an obligation. And that means far
more than merely connecting systems. It means marrying IT strategy to
business goals. More...

Red Tape Remover 02/09/2002 14:24
When South Australia's Port Adelaide Enfield Council decided to implement a
new e-procurement system its IT leaders knew the
move would save the local government body a great deal of money. What they
didn't count on, however, was just how useful it would be in getting rid of
unwanted bureaucracy. More...

Outsourcing and the Call for Versatility 02/09/2002 14:17
It is almost 18 months since responsibility for the implementation of the
federal government's policy on IT infrastructure outsourcing with
Centrelink was devolved to its statutory board. More...

Not Content to Wait 02/09/2002 14:10
Content is King (But only if it is managed) More...

Managing Uncertainty in E-government Investments 02/09/2002 14:02
Though still in its infancy across the world, e-government represents the
most significant change to democratic public sectors ever experienced, a
change that is as fast and turbulent as it is constant. More...

IT Experts Know Best 02/09/2002 13:57
Five years after the widely leaked Cabinet-in-Confidence submissions from
agencies warning the government against its radical whole-of-government
approach to outsourcing, and with contracts up for renewal or newly
renewed, agency IT heads can feel vindicated. More...

Immunising Against Terror 02/09/2002 13:46
Post 9-11, the world is a changed place. Governments need to realise that
Web site information for their citizens needs to go beyond how to make
online rates payments and where to get a dog licence. More...

More Stories ....

-- 
We use our knowledge to stop others do what we do to them.
-- A certain Australian Government security agency.

Regards
brd

Bernard Robertson-Dunn
Canberra Australia
brd@austarmetro.com.au
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From rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU  Thu Sep 12 04:59:13 2002
From: rsedc@urgento.gse.rmit.EDU.AU (David Chia)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:59:13 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [LINK] (FWD) (OT) Strange Coincidence ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1020912144146.15120A-100000@atlantic>


Although this is from the same source, it is published in many
online press ...

  http://www.canada.com/news/story.asp?id=%7B885A0B60-2546-4AF7-A617-F381287FA95E%7D

  http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/sh/news/stories/nat-news-166364320020911-210924.html

  http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2002/sep/11/091102355.html



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From me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au  Thu Sep 12 05:15:45 2002
From: me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au (Tony Barry)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:15:45 +1000
Subject: [LINK] Infighting erupts at NetRegistry over auDA attack
Message-ID: <a0510030cb9a5d3781e4e@[10.0.1.202]>

Infighting erupts at NetRegistry over auDA at