From slc at publicus.net Thu Dec 1 03:38:23 2005 From: slc at publicus.net (Steven Clift) Date: Thu Dec 1 03:39:13 2005 Subject: [LINK] Everyday Citizens: Community Life in the Information Age Speech Message-ID: <002701c5f5cc$7b46faf0$6400a8c0@PUBLICUS2> I've put my one hour "Everyday Citizens: Community Life in the Information Age" speech online at: http://dowire.org/media/everydaycitizens.mp3 It highlights a number of e-participation lessons I share with different parts of government and society. If you have examples from Australia that fit the theme of the speech (after you listen :-)), send them along: clift@publicus.net More info: http://www.dowire.org/notes/?p=76 Steven Clift - http://publicus.net - Reply to: clift@publicus.net Join DoWire: http://dowire.org E-Democracy: http://e-democracy.org From slc at publicus.net Thu Dec 1 03:39:46 2005 From: slc at publicus.net (Steven Clift) Date: Thu Dec 1 03:40:32 2005 Subject: [LINK] Everyday Citizens: Community Life in the Information Age Speech Message-ID: <002e01c5f5cc$adabd420$6400a8c0@PUBLICUS2> I've put my one hour "Everyday Citizens: Community Life in the Information Age" speech online at: http://dowire.org/media/everydaycitizens.mp3 It highlights a number of e-participation lessons I share with different parts of government and society. If you have examples from Australia that fit the theme of the speech (after you listen :-)), send them along: clift@publicus.net More info: http://www.dowire.org/notes/?p=76 Steven Clift - http://publicus.net - Reply to: clift@publicus.net Join DoWire: http://dowire.org E-Democracy: http://e-democracy.org From brd at iimetro.com.au Thu Dec 1 08:11:43 2005 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (brd@iimetro.com.au) Date: Thu Dec 1 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [LINK] It's official: Diebold election bugware can't be trusted Message-ID: <20051201051143.nnshe5f1oaasgksc@webmail.iimetro.com.au> It's official: Diebold election bugware can't be trusted The company implies as much By Thomas C Greene in Washington Published Wednesday 30th November 2005 14:50 GMT The Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/30/diebold_hides_source/ Diebold would rather lose all of its voting machine business in North Carolina than open its source code to state election officials as required by law, the Associated Press reports. Due to irregularities in the 2004 election traced to touch screen terminals, North Carolina has taken the very reasonable precaution of requiring vendors of electronic voting gizmos to place all of the source code in escrow. Diebold has objected to the possibility of criminal sanctions if they fail to comply, and argued for an exemption before Wake County Superior Court Judge Narley Cashwell. The judge declined to issue an exemption, and Diebold has concluded that it has no choice but withdraw from the state. The company's explanation is that their machines contain Microsoft software, which they have no right to make available to state election officials. This seems disingenuous, as it is hard to imagine Microsoft suing Diebold for complying with the law. It would hardly be Diebold's fault if it released MS code to a lawful authority on demand; that issue would be something for MS and North Carolina to work out. One far-fetched explanation would be that MS has licensed its software to Diebold with a provision that the company withdraw from jurisdictions where the law requires the release of its source code. It's possible, but there's no reason to believe it. A considerably more plausible explanation is that Diebold is using this non-problem as an excuse to keep its bugware from the prying eyes of government regulators. And the most likely reason for that is that they've got a lot of blunders to hide. If North Carolina were to reject the machines on the basis of their software, other states would undoubtedly become suspicious, and begin doing their own investigations. So in that case, withdrawing from the market is the smartest move the company can make. But if the software is as good as the company claims, then North Carolina's future endorsement will make for excellent free advertising. Withdrawing from the market would be a very foolish move in that case, but, again, only if Diebold has nothing to hide. -- If you've found 3 bugs in a program, best estimate is that there are 3 more. 60% of product cost comes after initial shipment. -- unknown Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@iimetro.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using iiMetro WebMail From srh at ozemail.com.au Thu Dec 1 08:58:19 2005 From: srh at ozemail.com.au (Steve Hill) Date: Thu Dec 1 08:58:37 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection Message-ID: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Hi All I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten years. As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account with that organisation has been disconnected without any prior notification. Obviously, my former employer has a right to do this, or does he? Does it make any difference that I was allowed to use this email address for both personal and business use? Would this mean that I have at least a small claim to ownership of that account and should have been given a few days notice of the disconnection? Is there a point of law in having an email account that was used for business and private use being disconnected? Should I have realised what would happen and made changing my email address my first priority? Your comments and/or similar experiences would be appreciated Steve Hill Email: srh@ozemail.com.au From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Dec 1 09:19:32 2005 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu Dec 1 09:19:57 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: On 1/12/05 8:58 AM, "Steve Hill" wrote: > I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten years. > As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account with that > organisation has been disconnected without any prior notification. > Obviously, my former employer has a right to do this, or does he? He does. The email account/system belongs to the employer, and he can do with it what he wishes. He was providing the account as a "business tool" while you were an employee. Compare: An employer provides a car so you can visit clients. There's an understanding that you can also use that car after hours. When your employment ends, the car goes back to the employer. > Does it make any difference that I was allowed to use this email address for > both personal and business use? Unless you have something in writing which says that you may use the account for personal purposes, then probably not. Indeed, it could be said that the account was left in place for two whole weeks after your resignation, giving you plenty of time to make other arrangements. That said, it would have been *polite* for them to provide a warning. But the law isn't about politeness. > Would this mean that I have at least a small claim to ownership of that > account and should have been given a few days notice of the disconnection? > Is there a point of law in having an email account that was used for business > and private use being disconnected? > Should I have realised what would happen and made changing my email address my > first priority? Yes, sorry, you should have. I am not a lawyer, so I welcome people to shoot me down in flames on this one. Stil -- Stilgherrian Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia. ABN 25 231 641 421 mobile 0407 623 600 (international +61 407 623 600) fax 02 9516 5630 (international +61 2 9516 5630) From skeeve at skeeve.org Thu Dec 1 09:19:57 2005 From: skeeve at skeeve.org (Skeeve Stevens) Date: Thu Dec 1 09:20:13 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <200511302220.jAUMK0V25035@carpediem.eintellego.net> There's arguments on both sides here. Ignoring all the assumed rights of the employer and your use of their resources as a given. It could be possible for you to go to court to get it re-instated for a period... I'm not sure on what basis though. But, the easiest obvious avenue would be to make a deal with the employer... Have you talked to them? They were probably just following protocols... With that long at the company, they might be willing to restore it for a period (even if there is a cost associated). That's where I'd start before going to court to force them... And think how much email you'd lose anyhow, and how much it would cost you. ...Skeeve -----Original Message----- From: link-bounces@anumail0.anu.edu.au [mailto:link-bounces@anumail0.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Steve Hill Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2005 8:58 AM To: Link Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection Hi All I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten years. As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account with that organisation has been disconnected without any prior notification. Obviously, my former employer has a right to do this, or does he? Does it make any difference that I was allowed to use this email address for both personal and business use? Would this mean that I have at least a small claim to ownership of that account and should have been given a few days notice of the disconnection? Is there a point of law in having an email account that was used for business and private use being disconnected? Should I have realised what would happen and made changing my email address my first priority? Your comments and/or similar experiences would be appreciated Steve Hill Email: srh@ozemail.com.au _______________________________________________ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ======================================================================== iBurst Wireless Broadband from $34.95/month www.platformnetworks.net Forward undetected SPAM to: spam@mailsecurity.net.au ======================================================================== From lannet at lannet.com.au Thu Dec 1 09:42:24 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu Dec 1 09:42:47 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <438E2AD0.9080901@lannet.com.au> Did you have a company supplied car that you were allowed to use for business and private use - were you allowed to continue using that after you terminated - normally only so that you can get home on that day. Similarly with a company supplied laptop. Steve Hill wrote: > Hi All > > I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten years. As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account with that organisation has been disconnected without any prior notification. > Obviously, my former employer has a right to do this, or does he? > Does it make any difference that I was allowed to use this email address for both personal and business use? > Would this mean that I have at least a small claim to ownership of that account and should have been given a few days notice of the disconnection? > Is there a point of law in having an email account that was used for business and private use being disconnected? > Should I have realised what would happen and made changing my email address my first priority? > Your comments and/or similar experiences would be appreciated > > Steve Hill > Email: srh@ozemail.com.au > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From andyf at concero.com.au Thu Dec 1 10:05:34 2005 From: andyf at concero.com.au (Andy Farkas) Date: Thu Dec 1 10:05:50 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <20051201084507.Y88106@nfw.concero.com.au> On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Steve Hill wrote: > I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten > years. As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account > with that organisation has been disconnected without any prior > notification. Exact same thing happened to me. But I tend to blame it on the incompetent admins that took over the FreeBSD systems that I built, turned them off, and tried to use M$ products to perform the same functions; I was the admin for a small ISP in Sydney for 6 years and the new guys had no idea what they were getting into. My revenge consisted of a formal complaint to the TIO, which escalated to the second level, thereby causing them to pay a fee to the TIO. Small satisfaction I know, but it felt good at the time :) Plus I got my address back for a week or so. But by that time I was already unsubscribed from most mail lists. I guess over the last ten years I've been on the Internet, I've only ever had 2 email addresses, my current one being the third, and all employer owned. Might have to finally get one of them .id addresses. -andyf From ivan.trundle at alia.org.au Thu Dec 1 11:31:46 2005 From: ivan.trundle at alia.org.au (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu Dec 1 11:32:08 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection Message-ID: On 1/12/05 8:58 AM, "Steve Hill" wrote: > I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten years. > As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account with that > organisation has been disconnected without any prior notification. > Obviously, my former employer has a right to do this, or does he? Sorry Steve, but I can only concur completely with everything that Stil wrote (and I'll stand by Stil if anyone wishes to flame away). You've not got a leg to stand on. The act of using an employer e-mail to conduct private business is a no-no for most places that I know of (yes, I know it happens, all the same - but the ownership is with the organisation, not the individual). A two-week 'buffer' seems quite considerate in these circumstances. In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no longer employed in that workplace, most system administrators would not even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. Anyone remaining with an employer for a long period of time needs to consider this: and given that employers are becoming more and more hesitant to permit access to web-based mail or other forms of personal communication in the workplace, then alternatives need to be found that do not compromise the workplace's policies. Anyone with a workplace e-mail address (or other forms of communication) should be aware of this - even if the ubiquity of access means that an employee sees no immediate need to have alternatives (at home, on the road, etc). The same applies to phone numbers, laptops, cars, mobile phones, desks, chairs, stationery, and coffee cups. Ownership of an account in the workplace is very much in the hands of the employer, not the employee (and certainly not the ex-employee). iT From ivan.trundle at alia.org.au Thu Dec 1 11:33:28 2005 From: ivan.trundle at alia.org.au (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu Dec 1 11:33:39 2005 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Readability of Report on Anti-Terrorism Bill In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051130122726.038dfb88@fastmail.fm> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20051130122726.038dfb88@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <4F380356-D721-43EE-9863-3876FCB9E8FF@alia.org.au> On 30/11/2005, at 12:48 PM, Tom Worthington wrote: > Google provides a reasonable HTML translation, but it seems to cut > out at about page 75: ...which makes it unreasonable, in my view. iT From lannet at lannet.com.au Thu Dec 1 11:49:54 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu Dec 1 11:50:10 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> Ivan Trundle wrote: > In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the > resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or > the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no > longer employed in that workplace, most system administrators would not > even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. Having said that, it's still amazing that many business/organisations have an entry procedure which has all the necessary email accounts and data access set up for the new employee, but fail to address the same things in their exit procedures, many of which consist solely of the departure tea and hand over of the termination cheque. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From danny at anatomy.usyd.edu.au Thu Dec 1 12:02:15 2005 From: danny at anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:02:25 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <20051201010215.GA27881@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> This is like backups... people don't realise how important "owning" their email address is till they lose it. In improving order of long-term reliability, I'd rank the options as: * your employer * your ISP (you might want to, or have to change) * a small email service (could go out of business) * a email service (e.g. hotmail, gmail) * your own domain I've been trying for some years to move all my personal mail from my employer email (this one) to email addresses on my own domains, but I haven't gone at that systematically yet. (Our policy here is to provide forwards to students and staff who leave, if they want them, but there's no guarantees that policy will persist when I leave.) So everyone go grab an id.au domain now, before all the good ones go! Prices seem to be around $50 for two years. Danny. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - over eight hundred book reviews http://danny.oz.au/ - civil liberties, travel tales, blog ---------------------------------------------------------- From kauer at biplane.com.au Thu Dec 1 12:14:27 2005 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:14:49 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <20051201121427.77b0bca0.kauer@biplane.com.au> > I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten years. As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account with that organisation has been disconnected without any prior notification. > Obviously, my former employer has a right to do this, or does he? > [ and other discussion] It seems obvious to me that it is the employers right (and in many cases responsibility) to terminate all such services he might provide to you, on the day you leave. That said, some flexibility in this regard is a selling point for good employers, and it probably differs from industry to industry. The place I just left started sending me warnings about all the services I was about to lose, starting the week after my resignation was recieved. They sent about one warning a fortnight saying what was going, when it was going, what was gone etc. Policy is that VPN access stops the day you leave, some stuff goes to a month after you leave, and the email address goes last, two months after you actually leave. I think that's pretty good. It is also a written policy that Internet acess will be available for personal use, and it is up to supervisors to decide what is excessive. The important thing here is that everything is written down and up front - no surprises. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) +61-2-64957160 (w/h) http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob) From drose at nla.gov.au Thu Dec 1 12:25:08 2005 From: drose at nla.gov.au (Daniel Rose) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:25:18 2005 Subject: FW: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection Message-ID: <3F8819281E85774CA6CE6F4FB842874F01FABEA7@gimli.shire.nla.gov.au> > >Ivan Trundle wrote: >> In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the >> resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or >> the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no >> longer employed in that workplace, most system >administrators would not >> even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. > >Having said that, it's still amazing that many business/organisations >have an entry procedure which has all the necessary email accounts and >data access set up for the new employee, but fail to address the same >things in their exit procedures, many of which consist solely of the >departure tea and hand over of the termination cheque. I get a notification of all departures on a regular basis from personnel and disable all parts of the account on all systems unless other arrangments have been made by the staff member via the helpdesk. If the staff member contacts me and requests a redirect, that's fine. However I've never had a request to allow a staff member to use the webmail account to send email after they've left the Library, and I'd say no anyway unless overruled by upper management -- and if that happened I wouldn't be happy about it! It might be different if there were not hundreds of places where you can get free webmail, and many ISPs will give you a "real" email address for around $10 to $50 per year or something silly like that. If Steve was a senior member of the company then I think they should have contacted him, even if only to avoid acrimony. In any case, Steve should have made arrangements, and I think if Steve were to contact them today and request a redirection to some other email address then I can't think of a business reason for them not to allow it -- it's not a significant hassle, cost or risk for most places to run a redirection service, so if they refuse then it's probably just bloody mindedness. In any case, I can name concrete examples of "free" addresses supplied by govt, academic (ANU) and private business (netspeed) to people who aren't entitled anyway, so some places at least don't regard it as a big deal. From dlochrin at d2.net.au Thu Dec 1 12:28:40 2005 From: dlochrin at d2.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:29:47 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <20051201121427.77b0bca0.kauer@biplane.com.au> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> <20051201121427.77b0bca0.kauer@biplane.com.au> Message-ID: <200512011228.40128.dlochrin@d2.net.au> On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:14, Karl Auer wrote: >The place I just left started sending me warnings about all the services I was about to lose, starting the week after my resignation was recieved. They sent about one warning a fortnight saying what was going, when it was going, what was gone etc. Policy is that VPN access stops the day you leave, some stuff goes to a month after you leave, and the email address goes last, two months after you actually leave. I think that's pretty good. It is also a written policy that Internet acess will be available for personal use, and it is up to supervisors to decide what is excessive. The important thing here is that everything is written down and up front - no surprises. That's extraordinarily generous, I think. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "VPN access" but, if it means access from a home system to the company's server, this may be the only type of remote access which ~is~ supported. Also, some organisations may have trouble keeping Internet email happening while making an ex-employee invisible to internal systems. I'd suggest Steve's best bet would be to get a private email account with an ISP and ask his employer to simply set an alias which redirects his inbound Internet email there. David From lannet at lannet.com.au Thu Dec 1 12:46:39 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:46:56 2005 Subject: FW: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <3F8819281E85774CA6CE6F4FB842874F01FABEA7@gimli.shire.nla.gov.au> References: <3F8819281E85774CA6CE6F4FB842874F01FABEA7@gimli.shire.nla.gov.au> Message-ID: <438E55FF.9020505@lannet.com.au> Daniel Rose wrote: > If the staff member contacts me and requests a redirect, that's fine. > However I've never had a request to allow a staff member to use the > webmail account to send email after they've left the Library, and I'd > say no anyway unless overruled by upper management -- and if that > happened I wouldn't be happy about it! ...and written in DNA identifiable blood on stone :) -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From ivan.trundle at alia.org.au Thu Dec 1 12:53:34 2005 From: ivan.trundle at alia.org.au (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:54:14 2005 Subject: FW: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection Message-ID: >>> "Daniel Rose" - 1/12/05 12:25 PM >>> >If the staff member contacts me and requests a redirect, that's fine. There is still some concern at this point. Redirecting e-mail is the equivalent of maintaining the account. It then relies on the ex-employee to return all business-related messages to the organisation: and to declare to the sender of the e-mail that s/he is no longer an employee - and to make this clear in every sense. This is an unacceptable risk in my workplace, and I'm certain that it is in others. I'm not suggesting that all ex-employees are malevolent, but nonetheless, the risk is there. It's the equivalent of forwarding all snail mail (cheques and invoices included), and phone calls. iT From cas at taz.net.au Thu Dec 1 12:56:51 2005 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:57:04 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <20051201010215.GA27881@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> <20051201010215.GA27881@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <20051201015651.GM12961@taz.net.au> On Thu, Dec 01, 2005 at 12:02:15PM +1100, Danny Yee wrote: > This is like backups... people don't realise how important "owning" > their email address is till they lose it. yep. > I've been trying for some years to move all my personal mail from my > employer email (this one) to email addresses on my own domains, but > I haven't gone at that systematically yet. (Our policy here is to > provide forwards to students and staff who leave, if they want them, > but there's no guarantees that policy will persist when I leave.) there's another reason for having your own email address: whenever you send email from your work address you are representing your company, whether you realise it or not. your comments can be taken as being an official statement of the company - regardless of whether being a spokesperson is part of your job description or not. so, unless you're never likely to say anything that your employer would be unhappy about being associated with them (or for which THEY could be held responsible/liable), then you really ought to have your own separate email address for personal communications. it's better for you, and it's better for your employer. craig -- craig sanders From glen.turner at aarnet.edu.au Thu Dec 1 13:41:33 2005 From: glen.turner at aarnet.edu.au (Glen Turner) Date: Thu Dec 1 13:42:19 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <20051201015651.GM12961@taz.net.au> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> <20051201010215.GA27881@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> <20051201015651.GM12961@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <438E62DD.2010308@aarnet.edu.au> Craig Sanders wrote: > there's another reason for having your own email address: whenever you > send email from your work address you are representing your company, > whether you realise it or not. To my view the major concern is actually that your mail spool is sitting on your employer's hardware. Much better to have it sit on an ISP's hardware which is covered by the privacy conditions of the Telco Act (us employees of telcos are in a fortunate position). At my local council the mayor's e-mail spool was read by the city manager in a "routine" scan for "unauthorised" e-mail. It's a shame she didn't think to consult her doctor or lawyer using that mail account :-) -- Glen Turner Tel: (08) 8303 3936 or +61 8 8303 3936 Australia's Academic & Research Network www.aarnet.edu.au From jbirch at multinode.com.au Thu Dec 1 14:56:38 2005 From: jbirch at multinode.com.au (Jim Birch) Date: Thu Dec 1 14:56:47 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <438E7476.1080706@multinode.com.au> Steve Hill wrote: >Should I have realised what would happen and made changing my email address my first priority? >Your comments and/or similar experiences would be appreciated > > I see three main issues for you here. 1. New mail 2. Mail history 3. Address book 1. You could ask them nicely to do a redirect, but it gets messy. If company email is getting shunted off to you (now aka Joe Public) they run a serious risk of important business communications them being ignored or even misused. Deleting your address so the sender gets a bounce would be better for them because the sender will find an alternate contact. If your address is being redirected to another employee you could ask them to either forward personal stuff to your new external address, or probably better, do a standard reply to sender with your new address so the sender updates. 2. If you really need mail history (or feel the need to preserve a glittering lode of modern literature) you could ask them for some kind of export of your mail history, maybe for selected addresses. They might want someone to vet what you're getting your hands on which could be a lot of work. 3. Address Book. If you got this or can get it in some form, you can at least email your personal correspondents a new address. All this depends on your relationship with your ex-employer. If you've left on good terms they might be helpful; if you've moved to (or become) the opposition, things could well be different! I've actualy got a similar but more convoluted situation happening here. I am a full time employee of XYZ Ltd but am moving interstate for personal reasons soon. I have an XYZ company email account that I'm happy to loose. I also have a personal domain multinode.com.au which I set up when I was consulting. I kept my private emails on multinode to avoid your situation. But the plot thickens: Multinode stayed in business when I went to work for XYZ basically as an purchasing agent for XYZ run by me and the multinode mail server was housed at XYZ, also run by me. Now I'm leaving XYZ want to take over Multinode and maybe move some of their IT functions into it. They'd let me continue to use my multinode email address for as long as required but in the long term it wouldn't be desirable on either side so ultimately I'll loose the multinode address (which I had thought was pretty rock solid.) I'm leaving on good terms and remain trusted so don't have any problems taking my personal address books and mail history. But I'm up for a new address. I've got a gmail account and an ISP account but I think I'll be getting a .net domain to use purely for personal stuff for me and the family. But then there's an ongoing hosting cost. I'll look at id.au too. -- Jim Birch jbirch "at" multinode * com * au (for now) t: 04 1243 1243 ----- All major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses. --Bruce Leverett From link at todd.inoz.com Thu Dec 1 15:52:23 2005 From: link at todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Thu Dec 1 16:04:32 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20051201154802.030dc510@wheresmymailserver.com> At 08:58 AM 1/12/2005, Steve Hill wrote: >I have recently left my place of employment where I worked for over ten >years. As of yesterday (2 weeks on from my resignation) my email account >with that organisation has been disconnected without any prior notification. Seems this 14 day period is a very typical period as I noticed this was mentioned in a Rape trial in Tasmania. I tend to disable the accounts on the day of departure ;) >Obviously, my former employer has a right to do this, or does he? Yes, of course. You are no longer employed and hence no longer entitled to the address. Do you still use their telephone and fax? Stationery cupboard, Tea, Coffee? >Does it make any difference that I was allowed to use this email address >for both personal and business use? No, because clearly a term of "use" would have been "employment." Hence when employment ceased, so did the licence to use the email address. I keep telling people to get an INOZ.COM or an INAU.COM address for life! >Would this mean that I have at least a small claim to ownership of that >account and should have been given a few days notice of the disconnection? I don't belive so. I'm sure again, the coffee consumption isn't a right beyond employment! >Is there a point of law in having an email account that was used for >business and private use being disconnected? I can't see why. People change phone numbers all the time, people change residential and business addresses all the time, people change mobile phone numbers more often than some change their underwear! If you move house, do you have some perpetual right to use the address? No. I don't think so. Interesting question and I might try and wriggle that one into a Supreme Court hearing on Monday. >Should I have realised what would happen and made changing my email >address my first priority? Just like when you change home address, you go to Australia Post and pay a redirection fee. And you get you're telephone provide to put on a recorded message giving your new number. I'd suggest asking your employer if they can redirect the email for a few months from your old address. You may have to compromise to allowing an employee receive the email and determine if it is personal or business and forward as appropriate. From link at todd.inoz.com Thu Dec 1 15:59:31 2005 From: link at todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Thu Dec 1 16:04:45 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <20051201010215.GA27881@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> <20051201010215.GA27881@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20051201155827.046bfda0@wheresmymailserver.com> >In improving order of long-term reliability, I'd rank the options as: > >* your employer >* your ISP (you might want to, or have to change) >* a small email service (could go out of business) >* a email service (e.g. hotmail, gmail) >* your own domain I'm guessing that was from lowest to highest! >So everyone go grab an id.au domain now, before all the good ones go! >Prices seem to be around $50 for two years. Or an INAU.COM for ZERO dollars per year provided you pay the $3 a month email service fee :) Or an INOZ.COM for around $36 a year, includes hosting :) I'm also happy to negotiate a fee for "delegation" of a domain to your own servers so I can forget about it unless you need a change :) Call is a "Community Service Announcement" and a benefit to Link :) From link at todd.inoz.com Thu Dec 1 15:55:21 2005 From: link at todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Thu Dec 1 16:04:49 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <20051201084507.Y88106@nfw.concero.com.au> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> <20051201084507.Y88106@nfw.concero.com.au> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20051201155441.0384fac8@wheresmymailserver.com> >My revenge consisted of a formal complaint to the TIO, which escalated to >the second level, thereby causing them to pay a fee to the TIO. Small >satisfaction I know, but it felt good at the time :) Plus I got my address >back for a week or so. But by that time I was already unsubscribed from >most mail lists. You nasty nasty boi! >I guess over the last ten years I've been on the Internet, I've only ever >had 2 email addresses, my current one being the third, and all employer owned. I've always had my own personally controlled domain name. >Might have to finally get one of them .id addresses. Why not get an INOZ.COM or an INAU.COM, I can delegate to you and forget about it forever :) A few Linkers are using these for their own personal use. And the small fee I charge goes towards keeping me off the Dole Queue :) From link at todd.inoz.com Thu Dec 1 15:57:43 2005 From: link at todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Thu Dec 1 16:05:19 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> References: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20051201155637.04473008@wheresmymailserver.com> At 11:49 AM 1/12/2005, Howard Lowndes wrote: >Ivan Trundle wrote: >>In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the >>resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or >>the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no >>longer employed in that workplace, most system administrators would not >>even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. > >Having said that, it's still amazing that many business/organisations have >an entry procedure which has all the necessary email accounts and data >access set up for the new employee, but fail to address the same things in >their exit procedures, many of which consist solely of the departure tea >and hand over of the termination cheque. I think many places keep the address operation for the purpose of catching any stray inbound email of a commercial nature. I said before that I delete the users account, but I do redirect the address to my own spool in case something important is sent. I normally find that after 2 weeks there is no email destined to the address. From stephen at melbpc.org.au Thu Dec 1 17:22:06 2005 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Thu Dec 1 17:22:25 2005 Subject: [LINK] RFC: GNU GPL Revision Message-ID: <20051201062215.A822A13F73@vscan41.melbpc.org.au> Free Software Foundation Releases Guidelines for Revising GNU GPL New York - Nov 30, 2005 - The Free Software Foundation (FSF) and the Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) today released a document specifying the process and guidelines for revising the Foundation's GNU General Public License (GNU GPL). The GNU GPL is the most widely used Free Software license worldwide: Almost three quarters of all Free Software programs (also known as Free and Open Source Software, or FOSS) are distributed under this license. Since the GPL's last revision more than 15 years ago, software development and the business of distributing software have changed dramatically. Research firm Gartner recently predicted that by 2010 more than 75 percent of IT organizations will have formal acquisition and management strategies dealing with Free Software. As a result, business enterprises, as well as individual users and developers, will have an interest in the content of the new license. "The guiding principle for developing the GPL is to defend the freedom of all users," said Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software Foundation. "As we address the issues raised by the community, we will do so in terms of the four basic freedoms software users are entitled to -- to study, copy, modify and redistribute the software they use. GPLv3 will be designed to protect those freedoms under current technical and social conditions and will address new forms of use and current global requirements for commercial and non-commercial users." The document being made public today, "GPLv3 Process Definition," outlines the principles, the timeline and the process for public comment and issue resolution and can be viewed at http://gplv3.fsf.org "It is an exciting time in the history of software, particularly in the history of the Free Software movement," said Eben Moglen, general counsel to the Free Software Foundation and founding director of the Software Freedom Law Center, which is providing logistical support and legal advice to the Free Software Foundation. "Through this process, all voices will be heard. We will evaluate every opinion and will consider all arguments in light of the GPL's goals. The process is accessible, transparent and public for all those who want to participate." -- From brd at iimetro.com.au Thu Dec 1 17:53:40 2005 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Thu Dec 1 17:53:56 2005 Subject: [LINK] AIIA open source event a closed shop Message-ID: <438E9DF4.91371E13@iimetro.com.au> AIIA open source event a closed shop By Sam Varghese Comment SMH December 1, 2005 - 2:26PM http://www.smh.com.au/news/breaking/aiia-open-source-event-a-closed-shop/2005/12/01/1133311148312.html The Australian Information Industry Association appears to have decided to educate the corporate world about the use of open source software - but it doesn't want any media present while it does so. This morning in Melbourne, the AIIA held an industry forum for 120 people. Any media people who tried to register in the run-up to the event were turned away on the grounds that "frank discussion" would not take place if journalists were present. Last evening, the Canberra-based AIIA representative James McAdam spent a considerable time on the telephone with me, trying to dissuade me from turning up for the event. His argument was that it would be "discourteous to our members" if the media turned up for events which he said were for AIIA members only. When it was pointed out that this could not be for members only, as representatives of several vendors and other organisations were also attending, he had no argument to voice. The Victorian AIIA representative, Kee Wong, who was one of the organisers, said there would be no space for the media. However, according to attendees, there were several empty seats at the morning's forum; even though it was over-subscribed, several of those who registered did not turn up. Mr Wong's paranoia was so great that at one stage he asked me not to turn up and try to register under a false name. The event was conducted jointly with the Victorian Government and representatives of Centrelink, IBM, Novell, Red Hat, Amazon, and the John Holland construction company provided insights into the use of open source, both from the perspectives of vendors and users. Novell's Paul Kangro, Red Hat Linux's Max McLaren, IBM's Ivan Kladnig and CyberSource's Con Zymaris were among those presenting arguments in favour of open source. On the other side, Microsoft's Martin Gregory put forward the arguments for his organisation's proprietary products. Tech consultant David Boyles, a former chief information officer and chief operating officer of ANZ, moderated the discussion. But the details of the discussions will remain secret. At times when open source meets closed minds, the latter tend to prevail. -- Many people think that open source projects are sort of chaotic and and anarchistic. They think that developers randomly throw code at the code base and see what sticks. -- Mitchell Baker Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@iimetro.com.au From lannet at lannet.com.au Thu Dec 1 18:43:18 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Thu Dec 1 18:43:46 2005 Subject: [LINK] AIIA open source event a closed shop In-Reply-To: <438E9DF4.91371E13@iimetro.com.au> References: <438E9DF4.91371E13@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: <438EA996.2040301@lannet.com.au> The media might feel highly miffed at being refused attendance, but they have to realise that they do not have a deity given right to go where they please. Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > AIIA open source event a closed shop > By Sam Varghese > Comment > SMH > December 1, 2005 - 2:26PM > http://www.smh.com.au/news/breaking/aiia-open-source-event-a-closed-shop/2005/12/01/1133311148312.html > > The Australian Information Industry Association appears to have decided to > educate the corporate world about the use of open source software - but it > doesn't want any media present while it does so. > > This morning in Melbourne, the AIIA held an industry forum for 120 people. Any > media people who tried to register in the run-up to the event were turned away > on the grounds that "frank discussion" would not take place if journalists were > present. > > Last evening, the Canberra-based AIIA representative James McAdam spent a > considerable time on the telephone with me, trying to dissuade me from turning > up for the event. > > His argument was that it would be "discourteous to our members" if the media > turned up for events which he said were for AIIA members only. > > When it was pointed out that this could not be for members only, as > representatives of several vendors and other organisations were also attending, > he had no argument to voice. > > The Victorian AIIA representative, Kee Wong, who was one of the organisers, > said there would be no space for the media. However, according to attendees, > there were several empty seats at the morning's forum; even though it was > over-subscribed, several of those who registered did not turn up. > > Mr Wong's paranoia was so great that at one stage he asked me not to turn up > and try to register under a false name. > > The event was conducted jointly with the Victorian Government and > representatives of Centrelink, IBM, Novell, Red Hat, Amazon, and the John > Holland construction company provided insights into the use of open source, > both from the perspectives of vendors and users. > > Novell's Paul Kangro, Red Hat Linux's Max McLaren, IBM's Ivan Kladnig and > CyberSource's Con Zymaris were among those presenting arguments in favour of > open source. On the other side, Microsoft's Martin Gregory put forward the > arguments for his organisation's proprietary products. > > Tech consultant David Boyles, a former chief information officer and chief > operating officer of ANZ, moderated the discussion. > > But the details of the discussions will remain secret. At times when open > source meets closed minds, the latter tend to prevail. > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Thu Dec 1 19:36:35 2005 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (rchirgwin@ozemail.com.au) Date: Thu Dec 1 19:36:27 2005 Subject: [LINK] AIIA open source event a closed shop In-Reply-To: <438E9DF4.91371E13@iimetro.com.au> References: <438E9DF4.91371E13@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: <438EB613.50305@ozemail.com.au> It's hardly a rarity for people to say "no media" if they want completely open private discussion. (media hat on) We're apt to think that any exclusion of media comes from dishonourable motives. Sometimes it's just because people want to say exactly what they think, without having to worry about it being a "good look" in front of the boss... RC Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: >AIIA open source event a closed shop >By Sam Varghese >Comment >SMH >December 1, 2005 - 2:26PM >http://www.smh.com.au/news/breaking/aiia-open-source-event-a-closed-shop/2005/12/01/1133311148312.html > >The Australian Information Industry Association appears to have decided to >educate the corporate world about the use of open source software - but it >doesn't want any media present while it does so. > >This morning in Melbourne, the AIIA held an industry forum for 120 people. Any >media people who tried to register in the run-up to the event were turned away >on the grounds that "frank discussion" would not take place if journalists were >present. > >Last evening, the Canberra-based AIIA representative James McAdam spent a >considerable time on the telephone with me, trying to dissuade me from turning >up for the event. > >His argument was that it would be "discourteous to our members" if the media >turned up for events which he said were for AIIA members only. > >When it was pointed out that this could not be for members only, as >representatives of several vendors and other organisations were also attending, >he had no argument to voice. > >The Victorian AIIA representative, Kee Wong, who was one of the organisers, >said there would be no space for the media. However, according to attendees, >there were several empty seats at the morning's forum; even though it was >over-subscribed, several of those who registered did not turn up. > >Mr Wong's paranoia was so great that at one stage he asked me not to turn up >and try to register under a false name. > >The event was conducted jointly with the Victorian Government and >representatives of Centrelink, IBM, Novell, Red Hat, Amazon, and the John >Holland construction company provided insights into the use of open source, >both from the perspectives of vendors and users. > >Novell's Paul Kangro, Red Hat Linux's Max McLaren, IBM's Ivan Kladnig and >CyberSource's Con Zymaris were among those presenting arguments in favour of >open source. On the other side, Microsoft's Martin Gregory put forward the >arguments for his organisation's proprietary products. > >Tech consultant David Boyles, a former chief information officer and chief >operating officer of ANZ, moderated the discussion. > >But the details of the discussions will remain secret. At times when open >source meets closed minds, the latter tend to prevail. > > > From kauer at biplane.com.au Thu Dec 1 20:10:54 2005 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Thu Dec 1 20:11:11 2005 Subject: [LINK] AIIA open source event a closed shop In-Reply-To: <438E9DF4.91371E13@iimetro.com.au> References: <438E9DF4.91371E13@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: <20051201201054.2205783b.kauer@biplane.com.au> > The Australian Information Industry Association appears to have decided to > educate the corporate world about the use of open source software - but it > doesn't want any media present while it does so. So what? Makes sense to me - people trying to overcome their prejudice, ignorance or whatever may quite reasonably want to do so without fearing that they will be ridiculed in the press. Good on them. > His argument was that it would be "discourteous to our members" if the media > turned up for events which he said were for AIIA members only. He should not have had to make any arguments at all. His clearly stated wish that the media not be present should have been enough. > Mr Wong's paranoia was so great that at one stage he asked me not to turn up > and try to register under a false name. Well - yes. Because that's exactly the sort of the thing that the media has done, does, and presumably will continue to do. For some reason the media, even as it pillories others who follow that path, uses the ends to justify the means all too often. > But the details of the discussions will remain secret. At times when open > source meets closed minds, the latter tend to prevail. That's a long stretch, Bernard. Seems to me that they were attempting that most difficult thing: Their own reeducation. Not the sign of a closed mind at all. We are not talking a court proceeding here, or a Government decision-making process or anything else that is properly conducted in clear sight of the public eye. You message sounds suspiciously like the media stamping its little foot because someone wouldn't let them play. If the media cannot show pretty clearly that exposing some proceeding is in the public interest, then privacy should take precedence. Dark mutterings don't cut it. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer@biplane.com.au) +61-2-64957160 (w/h) http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob) From paul.mcgowan at yawarra.com.au Thu Dec 1 21:17:15 2005 From: paul.mcgowan at yawarra.com.au (Paul McGowan) Date: Thu Dec 1 21:17:29 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438E7476.1080706@multinode.com.au> References: <001c01c5f5f9$2ce69d20$0200a8c0@CPQ27999229962> Message-ID: <438F685B.21519.2D43A86@localhost> Jim Birch wrote: > > But I'm up for a new address. I've got a gmail account and an ISP > account but I think I'll be getting a .net domain to use purely for > personal stuff for me and the family. But then there's an ongoing > hosting cost. I'll look at id.au too. > Not necessarily a hosting cost Jim (unless you count domain registration and renewal as hosting). I have done the same thing since the ISP I worked for a few years back was sold and the service went downhill. For 12 Euros a year, you can get a .net (or .com if you want) from gandi.net. They're French, so the English version of their website is occasionally amusing, but their service is very good. As part of the 12 Euros (about AUD$20 - not very much anyway) you can redirect your mail to whatever ISP account you happen to be using right now. Currently I'm with Optus, but no-one ever sees my optusnet address, so when I need to change ISP next time, no-one needs to know. I looked into getting an id.au for our family, but they wouldn't let me use something that wasn't my name. Not so great for my wife, who has a different name. At that point we'd need a domain for me, and one for her, making it quite a bit more expensive that a .net the whole family can use, and which can be anything we want, not just our name. Cheers, Paul McGowan From josh at email.nu Thu Dec 1 21:44:01 2005 From: josh at email.nu (Josh Rowe) Date: Thu Dec 1 21:44:12 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <20051201010215.GA27881@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <20051201104404.YCBN16720.omta01sl.mx.bigpond.com@five> -----Original Message----- From: Danny Yee Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2005 12:02 PM To: Link Subject: Re: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection [snip-snip] > So everyone go grab an id.au domain now, before all the good ones go! > Prices seem to be around $50 for two years. id.au's are down to $25/2yr now ... Price Comparison of auDA Accredited Registrars http://whatsinaname.com.au/ Josh -- http://josh.id.au/ From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Fri Dec 2 08:43:43 2005 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri Dec 2 08:49:14 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> References: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20051202083911.020a8f50@popa.melbpc.org.au> At 11:49 AM 1/12/2005, Howard Lowndes wrote: >Ivan Trundle wrote: >>In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the >>resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or >>the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no >>longer employed in that workplace, most system administrators would not >>even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. Rather than have this be an unpleasant aspect to what may be a mutual decision for separation, why not just add it to the list of things to be discussed prior to departure, say 2 weeks before? There are lots of handover activities in most jobs. That would give the leaver time to get his/her affairs in order, including this. Of course, if it is an 'escorted' departure, ahem, then all deals are off and it would be for the protection of the company to disable or suspend any accounts immediately. I don't think it's a 'one size fits all' decision, although the main thing is to provide appropriate closure. I had an account with my previous employer long beyond the time I left. It was handy for accessing files that I had to download to get [they eventually burned me a disc which I have around somewhere] and the main thing was that they trusted me not to do anything stupid. I had worked in the central IT department and with those in the most recent assignment area, so I wasn't a threat at all. Jan JLWhitaker Associates Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit@melbpc.org.au -- http://member.melbpc.org.au/~jwhit/whitentr.htm 'Seed planting is often the most important step. Without the seed, there is no plant.' - JW, April 2005 _ __________________ _ From Tom.Worthington at tomw.net.au Fri Dec 2 10:10:33 2005 From: Tom.Worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Fri Dec 2 10:12:35 2005 Subject: [LINK] The CIA uncovers a secret: how to look things up on the internet In-Reply-To: References: <90B2D7E0-FD82-4351-8C5E-6C255BA09A9F@tony-barry.emu.id.au> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051130121033.038456f0@fastmail.fm> At 02:49 PM 11/29/2005, Roger Clarke wrote: >... But even the term 'open source intelligence' is becoming venerable. >There have been conferences since the early 1990s. Robert David Steele's >book was about 1992. ... And the Linkers bought him a drink while he told us about it and was interviewed by the TV news at the National Press Club in 1998 . Tom Worthington FACS HLM tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150 Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617 http://www.tomw.net.au/ Director, ACS Communications Tech Board http://www.acs.org.au/ctb/ Visiting Fellow, ANU Blog: http://www.tomw.net.au/blog/atom.xml From mikal at stillhq.com Fri Dec 2 11:30:33 2005 From: mikal at stillhq.com (Michael Still) Date: Fri Dec 2 11:33:41 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <200511302220.jAUMK0V25035@carpediem.eintellego.net> References: <200511302220.jAUMK0V25035@carpediem.eintellego.net> Message-ID: <438F95A9.3080800@stillhq.com> Skeeve Stevens wrote: > It could be possible for you to go to court to get it re-instated for a > period... I'm not sure on what basis though. But, the easiest obvious > avenue would be to make a deal with the employer... Have you talked to them? > They were probably just following protocols... With that long at the > company, they might be willing to restore it for a period (even if there is > a cost associated). If I was the employer I would be concerned about work information "leaking" to you now that you're no longer in my employ. I would therefore always reject requests for staff email access to remain any longer than the bare minimum. Mikal From mikal at stillhq.com Fri Dec 2 11:32:30 2005 From: mikal at stillhq.com (Michael Still) Date: Fri Dec 2 11:36:37 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> References: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> Message-ID: <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> Howard Lowndes wrote: >> In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the >> resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or >> the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no >> longer employed in that workplace, most system administrators would not >> even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. > > Having said that, it's still amazing that many business/organisations > have an entry procedure which has all the necessary email accounts and > data access set up for the new employee, but fail to address the same > things in their exit procedures, many of which consist solely of the > departure tea and hand over of the termination cheque. For sure. In fact, why remove the account? There might be important incoming mail, which should at the very least be archived. I would probably just change the password to something the user doesn't know. Mikal From eleanor at pacific.net.au Fri Dec 2 13:19:19 2005 From: eleanor at pacific.net.au (Eleanor Lister) Date: Fri Dec 2 13:19:27 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> References: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> Message-ID: <438FAF27.5000400@pacific.net.au> Michael Still wrote: > Howard Lowndes wrote: > >>> In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the >>> resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or >>> the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no >>> longer employed in that workplace, most system administrators would not >>> even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. >> >> >> Having said that, it's still amazing that many business/organisations >> have an entry procedure which has all the necessary email accounts >> and data access set up for the new employee, but fail to address the >> same things in their exit procedures, many of which consist solely of >> the departure tea and hand over of the termination cheque. > > > For sure. > > In fact, why remove the account? There might be important incoming > mail, which should at the very least be archived. I would probably > just change the password to something the user doesn't know. > > Mikal sounds like the wrong question ... surely the entry procedure should have separate email accounts for work and personal use; then on exit you just lock the ex-employee out of the work one, and re-direct the personal one, with a request to notify personal contacts within, say, 30 days. *shrug* works for me, and no controversy. regards, EL From jbirch at multinode.com.au Fri Dec 2 13:30:21 2005 From: jbirch at multinode.com.au (Jim Birch) Date: Fri Dec 2 13:30:33 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> References: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> Message-ID: <438FB1BD.9090508@multinode.com.au> Michael Still wrote: > In fact, why remove the account? There might be important incoming > mail, which should at the very least be archived. I would probably > just change the password to something the user doesn't know. Depends on the organisation. Here, we have publication deadlines. We might alias the email address to someone else for a week or two in some cases. Clients will have clear contact points and if these change everyone gets told. It would generally be better for the client to get a bounce - they'd phone up - than run the risk of an email being ingested and not handled in a timely manner. Jim -- Jim Birch jbirch@multinode.com.au t: 04 1243 1243 ----- Tech support: What's on your monitor now? End user: A teddy bear my boyfriend bought for me in the supermarket. From lannet at lannet.com.au Sat Dec 3 05:50:52 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Sat Dec 3 05:51:10 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438FAF27.5000400@pacific.net.au> References: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> <438FAF27.5000400@pacific.net.au> Message-ID: <4390978C.50303@lannet.com.au> Eleanor Lister wrote: > Michael Still wrote: > > >>Howard Lowndes wrote: >> >> >>>>In my workpace, the address is removed from the moment that the >>>>resignation is effective. Considering the damage that can be done (or >>>>the risk involved) by someone using a workplace address whilst no >>>>longer employed in that workplace, most system administrators would not >>>>even entertain two weeks for an ex-employee to sort things out. >>> >>> >>>Having said that, it's still amazing that many business/organisations >>>have an entry procedure which has all the necessary email accounts >>>and data access set up for the new employee, but fail to address the >>>same things in their exit procedures, many of which consist solely of >>>the departure tea and hand over of the termination cheque. >> >> >>For sure. >> >>In fact, why remove the account? There might be important incoming >>mail, which should at the very least be archived. I would probably >>just change the password to something the user doesn't know. >> >>Mikal > > > sounds like the wrong question ... surely the entry procedure should > have separate email accounts for work and personal use; My problem here is that if an employer provides an account for expressly personal use, I still don't see how it can absolve their liability for any material that is posted from that account. It's still the employer's account and it's still their responsibility. then on exit you > just lock the ex-employee out of the work one, and re-direct the > personal one, with a request to notify personal contacts within, say, 30 > days. > > *shrug* works for me, and no controversy. > > regards, > EL > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From link at todd.inoz.com Sat Dec 3 12:27:32 2005 From: link at todd.inoz.com (Adam Todd) Date: Sat Dec 3 12:30:10 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> References: <438E48B2.8080601@lannet.com.au> <438F961E.1010104@stillhq.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20051203122540.0321b9c0@wheresmymailserver.com> >In fact, why remove the account? There might be important incoming mail, >which should at the very least be archived. I would probably just change >the password to something the user doesn't know. 1. Delete user account. 2(a) (Sendmail) /etc/mail/virtualdomains user@company.com.au boss@company.com.au OR 2(b) (Sendmail and others) /etc/mail/aliases user@company.com.au boss, exemployee@somedomain.com No need to change passwords, mail ends up in the bosses account and everyone is happy :) From tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au Sat Dec 3 16:38:54 2005 From: tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au (Antony Barry) Date: Sat Dec 3 16:39:08 2005 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR58-05: Growing diversity in regional telecommunications services References: <07217800011334812887565@optinmailserver.com> Message-ID: <4D2FFC1C-40C8-4831-9B4E-994067A6A807@tony-barry.emu.id.au> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Australian Communications & Media Authority" > > Date: 2 December 2005 10:54:48 AM > To: > Subject: MR58-05: Growing diversity in regional telecommunications > services > Reply-To: broadcasting@acma.gov.au > > New infrastructure, products and services are increasingly being > offered by telecommunications carriers in regional markets, > according to a new report by the Australian Communications and > Media Authority. > The report, Telecommunications Services Availability in Australia > 2004?05, covers the availability of fixed voice, mobile and data > services in metropolitan, regional and remote areas of Australia. > The full media release can be viewed at http://www.acma.gov.au/ > ACMAINTER:STANDARD::pc=PC_100351. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > UNSUBSCRIBE INFORMATION > This email was sent to tony@tony-barry.emu.id.au, by
Mailing > list manager. > To opt-out of any future messages, please use the url below:- > http://elmn.com/?0055689801595tony@tony-barry.emu.id.au > We will respect your decision to receive no further emails from us. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > > phone : 02 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: 04 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au From stephen at melbpc.org.au Sun Dec 4 23:59:47 2005 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Mon Dec 5 00:00:09 2005 Subject: [LINK] Vic Gov responses to some e-democracy recommendations Message-ID: <20051204125956.9AA0A13FEF@vscan41.melbpc.org.au> Given the impressive history of attention to e-democracy by the Vic Gov some of the Government's responses to recommendations, which were tabled on 17 Nov 2005, may seem disappointing. http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/sarc/E-Democracy/Response_to_eDemocracy_Report.rtf .. Recommendation 80 The Parliament of Victoria should introduce an online petitions facility on a trial basis, subject to ongoing evaluation as to the benefits offered to Victorians. The Victorian online petition system should include a moderated discussion facility, similar to that provided by the Scottish Parliament. This system should be developed in open source, if possible, with access to the code available (at minimum) to the Local Government sector in Victoria. * The Government notes the Committee’s recommendation. The recommendation is a matter that is properly for Parliament’s consideration. Parliament, in considering the recommendation, should ensure that its implementation would constitute the best use of available resources. Recommendation 81 The Parliamentary template for paper petitions should be amended to allow for optional collection of email addresses or other electronic means of communication, in order to allow the petitioner to receive information about the status and tabling of their petition from the Parliament. The Parliament should pilot a postal feedback system. * The Government notes the Committee’s recommendation. The recommendation is a matter that is properly for Parliament’s consideration. Parliament, in considering the recommendation, should ensure that its implementation would constitute the best use of available resources. Recommendation 82 The Parliamentary commitment to the introduction of ICT-enabled consultation and participation processes must be matched with a tangible investment in staff, training, tools and promotional resources. * The Government notes the Committee’s recommendation. The recommendation is a matter that is properly for Parliament’s consideration. Parliament, in considering the recommendation, should ensure that its implementation would constitute the best use of available resources. -- Regards all .. Stephen Loosley From pbrooks-link at bwp.net.au Mon Dec 5 00:23:48 2005 From: pbrooks-link at bwp.net.au (Paul Brooks) Date: Mon Dec 5 00:24:07 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <438F685B.21519.2D43A86@localhost> References: <438E7476.1080706@multinode.com.au> Message-ID: <43938894.10138.2DE0A80@localhost> Paul McGowan wrote: > Jim Birch wrote: > > > > > But I'm up for a new address. I've got a gmail account and an ISP > > account but I think I'll be getting a .net domain to use purely for > > personal stuff for me and the family. But then there's an ongoing > > hosting cost. I'll look at id.au too. > > [...] > Currently I'm with Optus, but no-one ever sees my optusnet address, > so when I need to change ISP next time, no-one needs to know. > > I looked into getting an id.au for our family, but they wouldn't let > me use something that wasn't my name. Not so great for my wife, who > has a different name. At that point we'd need a domain for me, and > one for her, making it quite a bit more expensive that a .net the > whole family can use, and which can be anything we want, not just our > name. FWIW, I did the same thing for personal mail, after moving house for a year and then moving back, and changing ISP email addresses 3 times in quick succession. I registered an id.au domain for the family, with email redirection for several 'users' to any real address, to protect me against having to change addresses when changing ISPs ever again. Nobody sees my ISP address, so I can change it at will. Now my wife and each kid has their 'own' permanent email address, and a 'default catchall' forwarded so that even something like 'dickbrain@....id.au' will get to me - which can be an amusing conversation piece at parties..... --- Dr Paul Brooks | pbrooks@bwp.net.au Technology Partner | Mob 0414 366 605 Brooks Worrad & Partners | Ph +61 2 9402 7355 From lannet at lannet.com.au Mon Dec 5 04:52:03 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Mon Dec 5 04:52:20 2005 Subject: [LINK] Email Account Disconnection In-Reply-To: <43938894.10138.2DE0A80@localhost> References: <438E7476.1080706@multinode.com.au> <43938894.10138.2DE0A80@localhost> Message-ID: <43932CC3.8000203@lannet.com.au> Another one you might want to consider, if you have an uncommon name, is the .name TLD I have 'howard AT lowndes DOT name' registered with Godaddy (pse excuse the anti-spam corruption, but I don't know whether the LINK archives are public or private) for under US$10 per year (for up to 10 years if I wish) and I can redirect that to my current ISP account. Paul Brooks wrote: > Paul McGowan wrote: > >>Jim Birch wrote: >> >> >>>But I'm up for a new address. I've got a gmail account and an ISP >>>account but I think I'll be getting a .net domain to use purely for >>>personal stuff for me and the family. But then there's an ongoing >>>hosting cost. I'll look at id.au too. >>> > > [...] > >>Currently I'm with Optus, but no-one ever sees my optusnet address, >>so when I need to change ISP next time, no-one needs to know. >> >>I looked into getting an id.au for our family, but they wouldn't let >>me use something that wasn't my name. Not so great for my wife, who >>has a different name. At that point we'd need a domain for me, and >>one for her, making it quite a bit more expensive that a .net the >>whole family can use, and which can be anything we want, not just our >>name. > > > FWIW, I did the same thing for personal mail, after moving house for a > year and then moving back, and changing ISP email addresses 3 times in > quick succession. I registered an id.au domain for the family, with email > redirection for several 'users' to any real address, to protect me > against having to change addresses when changing ISPs ever again. Nobody > sees my ISP address, so I can change it at will. Now my wife and each kid > has their 'own' permanent email address, and a 'default catchall' > forwarded so that even something like 'dickbrain@....id.au' will get to > me - which can be an amusing conversation piece at parties..... > > > --- > Dr Paul Brooks | pbrooks@bwp.net.au > Technology Partner | Mob 0414 366 605 > Brooks Worrad & Partners | Ph +61 2 9402 7355 > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From danny at anatomy.usyd.edu.au Mon Dec 5 11:11:46 2005 From: danny at anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Mon Dec 5 11:11:56 2005 Subject: [LINK] Falun Gong spam Message-ID: <20051205001146.GA17197@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> Is there any faster way for an organisation to lose respect and support than by spamming all and sundry? | Subject: An Open letter to all Members of Parliament | | Dear Mailman, | | For your urgent attention. Please be aware that: | * Over 6 million People Renounce the Chinese Communist Party membership | (http://www.TheEpochTimes.com) Of course this could be a Chinese black-op, but I hardly think they'd want to publicise the URLs being spammed, so I think this can be safely blamed on Falun Gong or its supporters. Danny. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://dannyreviews.com/ - over eight hundred book reviews http://danny.oz.au/ - civil liberties, travel tales, blog ---------------------------------------------------------- From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Mon Dec 5 14:57:19 2005 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Mon Dec 5 14:58:19 2005 Subject: [LINK] Paymate and Paypal Message-ID: It was about time I went looking for an outline of how Paypal, Paymate (et al.?) work, and how well they stack up from a consumer perspective. Paymate makes a decent fist of describing its processes: http://www.paymate.com.au/help/help.do?helpSet=paymate&item=howtopay https://www.paymate.com.au/help/paymate/payments/complaints.html As a comparison of Paymate and PayPal, this is interesting: http://forums.ebay.com.au/thread.jspa?threadID=600000165&tstart=0&mod=1132631164901 Re Paypal, these give cause to pause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paypal http://www.paypalwarning.com/ http://www.paypalsucks.com/ PayPal's consumer-oriented pages are utterly inadequate: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/bizui/WhatIsPayPal-outside http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&eloc=26&loc=5&unique_id=1345&source_page=p/gen/about-outside&flow= This business-oriented page doesn't help much: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_wp-standard-feature-list-outside These are a little more useful: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_profile-comparison https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_feature-and-pricing-comparison Here's an ancient (2001) 'How PayPal Works' page: http://www.lowendmac.com/musings/paypal.html And here's a more recent one, but not very deep: http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-2977.html Basically PayPal looks like it's seriously consumer-unfriendly. -- Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in Info Science & Eng Australian National University Visiting Professor in the eCommerce Program University of Hong Kong Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW From tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au Mon Dec 5 15:11:27 2005 From: tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au (Antony Barry) Date: Mon Dec 5 15:11:40 2005 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Media briefing - TELECOMMUNICATIONS PERFORMANCE REPORT 2004-05 References: <07938310011337547236184@optinmailserver.com> Message-ID: <3D9EA011-7A9F-4802-9AAC-9ABD5EA6C467@tony-barry.emu.id.au> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Australian Communications & Media Authority" > > Date: 5 December 2005 2:52:03 PM > To: > Subject: Media briefing - TELECOMMUNICATIONS PERFORMANCE REPORT > 2004-05 > Reply-To: broadcasting@acma.gov.au > > The Australian Communications and Media Authority?s > Telecommunications Performance Report 2004-05 is scheduled to be > tabled in Parliament tomorrow, Tuesday 6 December. > The Telecommunications Act 1997 requires ACMA to monitor and report > to the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the > Arts on all significant matters relating to the performance of > carriers and carrier service providers, with particular reference > to consumer satisfaction, consumer benefits and quality of service. > This comprehensive document is an annual report card on the > performance of the Australian telecommunications industry. > ACMA will hold media briefings on the report at 3.30 pm tomorrow, > Tuesday 6 December, in Melbourne and by video link to Sydney. > Copies of the report and a detailed chapter by chapter summary will > be available at the briefings. > The Melbourne briefing will be held at > ACMA Melbourne Central Office > Level 44 > Melbourne Central Tower > 360 Elizabeth Street > Melbourne > The Sydney briefing will take place at > ACMA Sydney Central Office > Level 15 Tower 1 Darling Park > 201 Sussex Street > Sydney > Camera crews can set up from 3.00 pm > Media contacts: > Donald Robertson, ACMA Media Manager on (02 9334 7980 or 0418 86 1766. > Paul Slocum, ACMA Manager Communications/Media on (03) 9963 6966 or > 0408 152 471. > (end) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > UNSUBSCRIBE INFORMATION > This email was sent to tony@tony-barry.emu.id.au, by
Mailing > list manager. > To opt-out of any future messages, please use the url below:- > http://elmn.com/?0055817101595tony@tony-barry.emu.id.au > We will respect your decision to receive no further emails from us. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------- > > phone : 02 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: 04 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Mon Dec 5 15:55:11 2005 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (rchirgwin@ozemail.com.au) Date: Mon Dec 5 15:55:22 2005 Subject: [LINK] Paymate and Paypal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051205125511.czr6jh8j7sv4k0ww@mymail.com.au> Quoting Roger Clarke : Let me add that a quick perusal of the ASIC website is also suggestive ... in particular, the chronology of events surrounding the use of the Paypal name here! RC > > It was about time I went looking for an outline of how Paypal, > Paymate (et al.?) work, and how well they stack up from a consumer > perspective. > > Paymate makes a decent fist of describing its processes: > http://www.paymate.com.au/help/help.do?helpSet=paymate&item=howtopay > https://www.paymate.com.au/help/paymate/payments/complaints.html > > As a comparison of Paymate and PayPal, this is interesting: > http://forums.ebay.com.au/thread.jspa?threadID=600000165&tstart=0&mod=1132631164901 > > Re Paypal, these give cause to pause: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paypal > http://www.paypalwarning.com/ > http://www.paypalsucks.com/ > > PayPal's consumer-oriented pages are utterly inadequate: > https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/bizui/WhatIsPayPal-outside > http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_help-ext&eloc=26&loc=5&unique_id=1345&source_page=p/gen/about-outside&flow= > > This business-oriented page doesn't help much: > https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_wp-standard-feature-list-outside > > These are a little more useful: > https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_profile-comparison > https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_feature-and-pricing-comparison > > Here's an ancient (2001) 'How PayPal Works' page: > http://www.lowendmac.com/musings/paypal.html > > And here's a more recent one, but not very deep: > http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-2977.html > > Basically PayPal looks like it's seriously consumer-unfriendly. > > -- > Roger Clarke http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/ > > Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA > Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 > mailto:Roger.Clarke@xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ > > Visiting Professor in Info Science & Eng Australian National University > Visiting Professor in the eCommerce Program University of Hong Kong > Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using MyMail From brendansweb at optusnet.com.au Mon Dec 5 18:04:51 2005 From: brendansweb at optusnet.com.au (Brendan Scott) Date: Mon Dec 5 18:01:32 2005 Subject: [LINK] Sony's rootkit Message-ID: <4393E693.3030603@optusnet.com.au> Can anyone tell me whether the Sony rootkit debacle got much coverage in AU press? Thanks Brendan From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Mon Dec 5 19:04:59 2005 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (rchirgwin@ozemail.com.au) Date: Mon Dec 5 19:05:10 2005 Subject: [LINK] Sony's rootkit In-Reply-To: <4393E693.3030603@optusnet.com.au> References: <4393E693.3030603@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <4393F4AB.4060801@ozemail.com.au> Not much, Brendan. I can't be bothered to source the now-73 stories listed by Google News for Sony rootkit location:australia - but the first 10 are entirely syndicated pieces, not written here. If you then exclude the AAP/AFP/Reuters stories, you'd be left with not much which constitutes local research. I find it amazing. Since Sony's most recent page-three news in Australia was losing a court case over copy-protection; but the rootkit was a non-event for about 10 days after the story broke, in most outlets. RC Brendan Scott wrote: > Can anyone tell me whether the Sony rootkit debacle got much coverage > in AU press? > > Thanks > > > Brendan > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Mon Dec 5 20:58:13 2005 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (rchirgwin@ozemail.com.au) Date: Mon Dec 5 20:58:22 2005 Subject: [LINK] Sony's rootkit In-Reply-To: <4393F4AB.4060801@ozemail.com.au> References: <4393E693.3030603@optusnet.com.au> <4393F4AB.4060801@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <43940F35.3020001@ozemail.com.au> Further to this ... Following the Google News links; out of the most recent 25 stories on the search below, three can be considered "Australian" in terms of the byline: two from Sam V at the SMH, one from Adam Gosling at Smart House. Adam also had, IIRC, the first local byline associated with this story. RC rchirgwin@ozemail.com.au wrote: > Not much, Brendan. I can't be bothered to source the now-73 stories > listed by Google News for > Sony rootkit location:australia > > - but the first 10 are entirely syndicated pieces, not written here. > If you then exclude the AAP/AFP/Reuters stories, you'd be left with > not much which constitutes local research. > > I find it amazing. Since Sony's most recent page-three news in > Australia was losing a court case over copy-protection; but the > rootkit was a non-event for about 10 days after the story broke, in > most outlets. > > RC > > Brendan Scott wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me whether the Sony rootkit debacle got much coverage >> in AU press? >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Brendan >> _______________________________________________ >> Link mailing list >> Link@mailman.anu.edu.au >> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link >> > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > From stephen at melbpc.org.au Tue Dec 6 00:22:39 2005 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (Stephen Loosley) Date: Tue Dec 6 00:23:01 2005 Subject: [LINK] DCITA: "The Current State of Play: Australia and the Information Economy" In-Reply-To: <7542BA003187DC43B21A8021F6B17BF30BADDBDF@edu002ms003.educa tion.vic.gov.au> Message-ID: <20051205132249.74620A0A@vscan41.melbpc.org.au> A recent Department of Communications, Information Technology and the Arts publication "The Current State of Play: Australia and the Information Economy" (November 2005) may be of interest: http://www.dcita.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/33120/Current_State_of_Play_-_November_2005.pdf -- Thanks, Paula Stephen Loosley Victoria, Australia From brd at iimetro.com.au Tue Dec 6 08:38:56 2005 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue Dec 6 08:39:15 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' Message-ID: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> A false Wikipedia 'biography' By John Seigenthaler Posted 11/29/2005 7:12 PM USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-29-wikipedia-edit_x.htm "John Seigenthaler Sr. was the assistant to Attorney General Robert Kennedy in the early 1960's. For a brief time, he was thought to have been directly involved in the Kennedy assassinations of both John, and his brother, Bobby. Nothing was ever proven." ? Wikipedia This is a highly personal story about Internet character assassination. It could be your story. I have no idea whose sick mind conceived the false, malicious "biography" that appeared under my name for 132 days on Wikipedia, the popular, online, free encyclopedia whose authors are unknown and virtually untraceable. There was more: "John Seigenthaler moved to the Soviet Union in 1971, and returned to the United States in 1984," Wikipedia said. "He started one of the country's largest public relations firms shortly thereafter." At age 78, I thought I was beyond surprise or hurt at anything negative said about me. I was wrong. One sentence in the biography was true. I was Robert Kennedy's administrative assistant in the early 1960s. I also was his pallbearer. It was mind-boggling when my son, John Seigenthaler, journalist with NBC News, phoned later to say he found the same scurrilous text on Reference.com and Answers.com. I had heard for weeks from teachers, journalists and historians about "the wonderful world of Wikipedia," where millions of people worldwide visit daily for quick reference "facts," composed and posted by people with no special expertise or knowledge ? and sometimes by people with malice. At my request, executives of the three websites now have removed the false content about me. But they don't know, and can't find out, who wrote the toxic sentences. Anonymous author I phoned Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia's founder and asked, "Do you ... have any way to know who wrote that?" "No, we don't," he said. Representatives of the other two websites said their computers are programmed to copy data verbatim from Wikipedia, never checking whether it is false or factual. Naturally, I want to unmask my "biographer." And, I am interested in letting many people know that Wikipedia is a flawed and irresponsible research tool. But searching cyberspace for the identity of people who post spurious information can be frustrating. I found on Wikipedia the registered IP (Internet Protocol) number of my "biographer"- 65-81-97-208. I traced it to a customer of BellSouth Internet. That company advertises a phone number to report "Abuse Issues." An electronic voice said all complaints must be e-mailed. My two e-mails were answered by identical form letters, advising me that the company would conduct an investigation but might not tell me the results. It was signed "Abuse Team." Wales, Wikipedia's founder, told me that BellSouth would not be helpful. "We have trouble with people posting abusive things over and over and over," he said. "We block their IP numbers, and they sneak in another way. So we contact the service providers, and they are not very responsive." After three weeks, hearing nothing further about the Abuse Team investigation, I phoned BellSouth's Atlanta corporate headquarters, which led to conversations between my lawyer and BellSouth's counsel. My only remote chance of getting the name, I learned, was to file a "John or Jane Doe" lawsuit against my "biographer." Major communications Internet companies are bound by federal privacy laws that protect the identity of their customers, even those who defame online. Only if a lawsuit resulted in a court subpoena would BellSouth give up the name. Little legal recourse Federal law also protects online corporations ? BellSouth, AOL, MCI Wikipedia, etc. ? from libel lawsuits. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996, specifically states that "no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker." That legalese means that, unlike print and broadcast companies, online service providers cannot be sued for disseminating defamatory attacks on citizens posted by others. Recent low-profile court decisions document that Congress effectively has barred defamation in cyberspace. Wikipedia's website acknowledges that it is not responsible for inaccurate information, but Wales, in a recent C-Span interview with Brian Lamb, insisted that his website is accountable and that his community of thousands of volunteer editors (he said he has only one paid employee) corrects mistakes within minutes. My experience refutes that. My "biography" was posted May 26. On May 29, one of Wales' volunteers "edited" it only by correcting the misspelling of the word "early." For four months, Wikipedia depicted me as a suspected assassin before Wales erased it from his website's history Oct. 5. The falsehoods remained on Answers.com and Reference.com for three more weeks. In the C-Span interview, Wales said Wikipedia has "millions" of daily global visitors and is one of the world's busiest websites. His volunteer community runs the Wikipedia operation, he said. He funds his website through a non-profit foundation and estimated a 2006 budget of "about a million dollars." And so we live in a universe of new media with phenomenal opportunities for worldwide communications and research ? but populated by volunteer vandals with poison-pen intellects. Congress has enabled them and protects them. When I was a child, my mother lectured me on the evils of "gossip." She held a feather pillow and said, "If I tear this open, the feathers will fly to the four winds, and I could never get them back in the pillow. That's how it is when you spread mean things about people." For me, that pillow is a metaphor for Wikipedia. John Seigenthaler, a retired journalist, founded The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University. He also is a former editorial page editor at USA TODAY. -- Newspapermen learn to call a murderer "an alleged murderer" and the King of England "the alleged King of England" to avoid libel suits. -- Stephen B. Leacock Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@iimetro.com.au From Tom.Worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Dec 5 10:27:47 2005 From: Tom.Worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Tue Dec 6 09:18:35 2005 Subject: [LINK] Vic Gov responses to some e-democracy recommendations In-Reply-To: <20051204125956.9AA0A13FEF@vscan41.melbpc.org.au> References: <20051204125956.9AA0A13FEF@vscan41.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051205100302.01d41028@fastmail.fm> At 11:59 PM 12/4/2005, Stephen Loosley wrote: >... Government's responses to recommendations ... may seem disappointing. >http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/sarc/E-Democracy/Response_to_eDemocracy_Report.rtf When I tried to view it as HTML (to save downloading all the RTF) all I got was a blank screen: . In my evidence to the enquiry I suggested they avoid PDF for government reports . I really meant for them to use HTML not RTF. It is a shame that the Victorian Government has put people to so much trouble to so little effect. The message seems to be: if you want an IT savvy environment, don't go to Victoria. This is a shame as there are people doing good work at Vision Australia and Multimedia Victoria . Tom Worthington FACS HLM tom.worthington@tomw.net.au Ph: 0419 496150 Director, Tomw Communications Pty Ltd ABN: 17 088 714 309 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617 http://www.tomw.net.au/ Director, ACS Communications Tech Board http://www.acs.org.au/ctb/ Visiting Fellow, ANU Blog: http://www.tomw.net.au/blog/atom.xml From cas at taz.net.au Tue Dec 6 10:18:13 2005 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Tue Dec 6 10:18:25 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:38:56AM +1100, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > A false Wikipedia 'biography' > By John Seigenthaler > Posted 11/29/2005 7:12 PM > USA Today > http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-29-wikipedia-edit_x.htm > > "John Seigenthaler Sr. was the assistant to Attorney General Robert > Kennedy in the early 1960's. For a brief time, he was thought to > have been directly involved in the Kennedy assassinations of both > John, and his brother, Bobby. Nothing was ever proven." > ? Wikipedia > > This is a highly personal story about Internet character assassination. It > could be your story. in further shocking news, it has been discovered that people in pubs and other public venues can gossip about other people without having a clue what they are talking about. it is clear that the only way to prevent this heinous crime is to ban all public gatherings and require all means of communications (larynx, fingers, etc) to be surgically removed. craig -- craig sanders (part time cyborg) From lannet at lannet.com.au Tue Dec 6 11:36:42 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Tue Dec 6 11:37:03 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <4394DD1A.5020009@lannet.com.au> Craig Sanders wrote: > On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:38:56AM +1100, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > >>A false Wikipedia 'biography' >>By John Seigenthaler >>Posted 11/29/2005 7:12 PM >>USA Today >>http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-29-wikipedia-edit_x.htm >> >> "John Seigenthaler Sr. was the assistant to Attorney General Robert >> Kennedy in the early 1960's. For a brief time, he was thought to >> have been directly involved in the Kennedy assassinations of both >> John, and his brother, Bobby. Nothing was ever proven." >> ? Wikipedia >> >>This is a highly personal story about Internet character assassination. It >>could be your story. > > > in further shocking news, it has been discovered that people in pubs and > other public venues can gossip about other people without having a clue > what they are talking about. Ah, but there there is a better chance of them being identified and the scope for broad dissemination is reduced. In the case of Wikipedia the law is preventing identification, but allows broad dissemination. > > it is clear that the only way to prevent this heinous crime is to ban > all public gatherings and require all means of communications (larynx, > fingers, etc) to be surgically removed. > > craig > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From brd at iimetro.com.au Tue Dec 6 11:50:07 2005 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue Dec 6 11:50:20 2005 Subject: [LINK] [USA] Patent sanity is pending Message-ID: <4394E03F.8BAC25AB@iimetro.com.au> Patent sanity is pending December 4, 2005 latimes.com http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-ebay4dec04,0,6943666.story?coll=la-news-comment-editorials PATENT LAWS MAY BE AN inventor's best friend, giving someone with a groundbreaking idea the means to capitalize on it. But on many levels, the U.S. patent system is profoundly flawed. Too many patents are issued for "innovations" that are obvious, vague or already in wide use. Too many patent holders try to extend their claims to devices and services that weren't even contemplated when the patents were granted. And it's a difficult, costly exercise to overturn a questionable patent after it has been awarded. Compounding the problem, federal courts have been quick to hand patent holders a sledgehammer when their patents have been infringed. The appeals court in Washington takes the position that, except in exceptional circumstances, courts must issue permanent injunctions to stop infringers from using the inventions in dispute. As a consequence, someone who holds a patent over even a small piece of a product, service or business model could shut an entire operation down ? a nice bit of leverage when it comes to negotiating a licensing fee. As the Federal Trade Commission noted in a 2003 report, firms in some high-tech fields must obtain licenses to "dozens, hundreds or even thousands of patents" to produce just one product. Last week, the Supreme Court agreed to review the appeals court's stance. The case in question pits MercExchange, a small Virginia company that holds patents related to online commerce, against online auction giant EBay. But the issue is vital to a broad array of other technology, pharmaceutical and chemical companies. The courts may be right in this case to stop EBay from using technology patented by MercExchange, whose attempt to launch an online auction service fizzled several years ago. But judges need flexibility to provide different remedies in different situations. Patents must be enforced, but that doesn't necessarily require courts to award crippling injunctions ? particularly when the patent in dispute is just one of many involved in the product, service or business that would be shut down by an injunction. Nor is it good policy to encourage the creation of companies whose purpose is not to develop new products and services but to shake down businesses that do. Besides, the near-automatic granting of injunctions can lead to the absurd result of a company being forced to pay royalties to license patents later found to be invalid. That's the potential result in the battle between Research in Motion, the company behind the popular BlackBerry wireless e-mail devices, and patent holder NTP Inc. A federal judge may reinstate the injunction he granted against RIM for violating NTP's patents even though the Patent Office, which is reexamining the patents, has issued preliminary findings that all five are invalid. -- Lincoln said that the Patent Office adds the flame of interest to the light of creativity. And that is why we need to improve the effectiveness of our Patent Office. -- Jay Inslee Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Sydney Australia brd@iimetro.com.au From cas at taz.net.au Tue Dec 6 12:26:31 2005 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Tue Dec 6 12:26:51 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <4394DD1A.5020009@lannet.com.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> <4394DD1A.5020009@lannet.com.au> Message-ID: <20051206012631.GQ12961@taz.net.au> On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 11:36:42AM +1100, Howard Lowndes wrote: > Craig Sanders wrote: > >in further shocking news, it has been discovered that people in pubs and > >other public venues can gossip about other people without having a clue > >what they are talking about. > > Ah, but there there is a better chance of them being identified and the > scope for broad dissemination is reduced. In the case of Wikipedia the > law is preventing identification, but allows broad dissemination. so? "broad dissemination" is a subjective and relative term - i.e. meaningless. also, it doesn't change anything - if someone has been criticised (truthfully or falsely - doesn't matter), then that has been done whether 1 person read it or a million. in both cases, the reader(s) have to apply their judgement to decide whether they treat it as credible or not. preventing identification is essential - there should ALWAYS be opportunity for anonymous comment. anonymity is one of the most useful tools for safeguarding freedoms that it *should* override anyone's desire to find out who is slagging them off....because sometimes the slagging off is true and in the public interest to know, and wouldn't happen if whistle-blowers were to put themselves at risk of bankruptcy due to SLAPP lawsuits against them. what i found particularly amusing was that (according to the brief bio at the bottom of the article), the author "founded The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University." yet spent so much time whinging about other people exercising their freedom of speech. FoS isn't just reserved for things that you agree with, or even things that are truthful or informed or insightful or knowledgeable. if you support FoS then you have to support the right of people to utter the kind of crap that you don't approve of or agree with or even that which is an outright lie. craig -- craig sanders (part time cyborg) From tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au Tue Dec 6 12:49:41 2005 From: tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au (Antony Barry) Date: Tue Dec 6 12:49:51 2005 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: [ausweb-l] AusWeb06 Conference Update - Issue 3 References: <6.2.3.4.0.20051206085857.02874a28@popstaff.scu.edu.au> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: Kyona Luff > Date: 6 December 2005 9:13:08 AM > To: ausweb-l@scu.edu.au > Subject: [ausweb-l] AusWeb06 Conference Update - Issue 3 > Reply-To: ausweb-l@lists.scu.edu.au > > AusWeb06 Conference Update > Volume 12, Issue 3 > ------------------------------- > IN THIS ISSUE > ------------------------------- > 1. W3C Australian Office to Participate in AusWeb06 > 2. Early Bird Registration Opening 16th December > 3. Call for Papers and Posters Reminder > > > 1. W3C Australian Office to Participate in AusWeb06 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > We are delighted to announce that Ross Ackland has advised that the > Australian office of W3C http://www.w3c.org.au/ will be involved in > this years conference. They will be conducting a Special Interest > Group (SIG) day on the Wednesday as well as providing a keynote for > the main conference. We also hope some further members will be > submitting papers and posters. More details to be included in the > next update. > > 2. Early Bird Registration Opening 16th December > ------------------------------------------------------ > The pre and post conference workshop and tutorial program is > currently being finalised and we and we hope to announce details of > this shortly. Early Bird Registration will be available online on > 16th December so we encourage any eager delegates to use any end of > calendar year funding to register. > > 3. Call for Papers and Posters Reminder > ------------------------------------------- > Have you considered presenting a paper or poster? > Read the "Call for Papers and Posters" > Details are available at http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/aw06/papers/ > index.html > Closing dates for submissions are: 7th March (Papers) and 14th > April (Posters) > > Regards, > The AusWeb Team > > ------------------------------------------------------- > If you would like to be removed from this list: > Reply to mailto:ausweb@scu.edu.au > Subject line: UNSUBSCRIBE AUSWEB-L > > ausweb-l mailing list > ausweb-l@lists.scu.edu.au > http://lists.scu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/ausweb-l > _______________________________________________ > ausweb-l mailing list > ausweb-l@lists.scu.edu.au > http://lists.scu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/ausweb-l phone : 02 6241 7659 | mailto:me@Tony-Barry.emu.id.au mobile: 04 1242 0397 | http://tony-barry.emu.id.au From lannet at lannet.com.au Tue Dec 6 14:31:49 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Tue Dec 6 14:32:17 2005 Subject: [LINK] 2008 Olympics could go open source Message-ID: <43950625.5070007@lannet.com.au> Here's one for TomW http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/2008_Olympics_could_go_open_source/0,2000061733,39226012,00.htm The 2008 Beijing Olympic Games could switch to an open-source technology platform under proposals to be considered by the International Olympic Committee. The open-source move will be recommended by the IOC's technology partner, Atos Origin, under the guidance of subcontractors including Hewlett-Packard and IBM, according to Claude Philipps, program director at Atos Origin for the 2006 Turin Winter Olympics. "We have a plan to propose this for Beijing. It will save money on the licences," he said. After Atos presents the plans to the IOC in a formal proposal, the committee will make the final decision. But support costs could hinder the open-source switch, Philipps said. "The issue might be support because, especially in China, you don't have all the companies we have in Europe and the US." The information technology behind the Olympics is a massive operation involving some 1,200 IT team members, including 800 volunteers, who run 450 Intel-based servers and Unix boxes, 4,700 PCs and 700 printers. The inflexible deadlines and the need for security for the Olympic Games mean the technology choices are usually quite conservative. This led to wireless networks being banned for previous games but that, too, could change for Beijing in 2008. "There is no wireless in Turin (for next year's Winter Olympics) but there will be in Beijing," said Massimo Dossetto, IT security architect for the 2006 Turin games. "The technology has become mature, and we will use Cisco's network admin control." Radio frequency identification technology is also being looked at to help keep track of PCs and other IT equipment during the games, but biometrics and smart cards are not on the agenda, Dossetto said. "We would need to deploy a huge number of devices to read them, and just for one event it is not cost-effective," he said. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From jbirch at multinode.com.au Tue Dec 6 15:01:52 2005 From: jbirch at multinode.com.au (Jim Birch) Date: Tue Dec 6 15:02:03 2005 Subject: [LINK] eBay scam fools eBay Message-ID: <43950D30.8040805@multinode.com.au> ... Jennings reported the site to eBay on Nov. 25, and four days later he got a note back from the company's investigations team claiming that the e-mail message was, in fact, "an official e-mail message sent to you on behalf of e-Bay." Jennings was dumfounded. He immediately wrote back to eBay pointing out that the Web site being used was clearly fraudulent, but his e-mail went unanswered. On Monday, an eBay spokeswoman confirmed that the e-mail message was indeed part of a fraud, but she could not explain why it had initially been identified as legitimate. "I don't know the answer to that," said spokeswoman Amanda Pires. "I'm assuming right now it was just an error." From their initial response, it appeared that eBay's investigators did not take his concerns seriously, Jennings said. "They never actually used the word idiot, but I felt like they were calling me an idiot," he said. He believes that the e-mail message in question bore such a close resemblance to a legitimate eBay message that the company's investigators were simply tricked by the scam. .... http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=438487658&eid=-6787 I love (not) that a slimey piece of PR-speak there, admitting an error, or perhaps not... -- Jim Birch jbirch-at-multinode*com*au t: 04 1243 1243 ----- You can fool too many of the people too much of the time - James Thurber From eric.scheid at ironclad.net.au Tue Dec 6 15:56:04 2005 From: eric.scheid at ironclad.net.au (Eric Scheid) Date: Tue Dec 6 15:56:18 2005 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Big remake beats clock Message-ID: > Big remake beats clock > > THE Commonwealth Bank has finished rolling out its CommSee customer > relationship management system to retail branches five months ahead of > schedule and on budget. > > http://email.news.com.au/ct/click?q=30-u8qEIRrLECxUIz78IPDdGKmQ what went wrong? e. From jbirch at multinode.com.au Tue Dec 6 15:56:51 2005 From: jbirch at multinode.com.au (Jim Birch) Date: Tue Dec 6 15:57:00 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <43951A13.9000906@multinode.com.au> Craig Sanders wrote: >in further shocking news, it has been discovered that people in pubs and >other public venues can gossip about other people without having a clue >what they are talking about. > > And I've just received an email job offer from a Mr John Nash of the Ukrainian National Animal Welfare Foundation (UANAWF) . All I have to do is receive donor moneys direct to my bank account, take a cut and pass the rest along to to these animal lovers in the Ukraine. Look, I could be way out here, but my bet is these guys would buy a bone for a staving dog. You have to feel a bit sorry for this guy who has been defamed, but, between you and me, I reckon the Internet is awash with crap. Elsewhere, I see that "As a result of the incident, Wikipedia no longer accepts new submissions from anonymous contributors" http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=21324&eid=1&edate=20051206 OTOH, wouldn't the real story of who did what and why in this case be interesting reading? Where's Hunter S Thompson when you need him! I wonder if there's some extreme right hate outfit somewhere with a check list of Democrat elders they are working through. Or, maybe it's a just personal thing from someone who was inadvertently snubbed at a Washington cocktail party in 1976 and, despite therapy, hasn't been able to forget it. -- Jim Birch jbirch-at-multinode*com*au t: 04 1243 1243 ----- Truth is more of a stranger than fiction. --Mark Twain From mail at ozzmosis.com Tue Dec 6 16:10:57 2005 From: mail at ozzmosis.com (andrew clarke) Date: Tue Dec 6 16:11:16 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: <20051206051057.GA313@ozzmosis.com> On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:38:56AM +1100, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > A false Wikipedia 'biography' > By John Seigenthaler > Posted 11/29/2005 7:12 PM ... > At age 78, I thought I was beyond surprise or hurt at anything negative said > about me. I was wrong. One sentence in the biography was true. I was Robert What puzzles me a bit is he himself could've corrected his own biography - anonymously if he wished. Instead he made a big fuss about it and now due to all the publicity the article is currently locked: "This page has recently been featured in a major source outside of Wikipedia. As a result, it is experiencing higher than normal traffic, and has become the target of vandalism. It has consequently been protected from editing." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Seigenthaler_Sr. Regards Andrew From mail at ozzmosis.com Tue Dec 6 16:15:36 2005 From: mail at ozzmosis.com (andrew clarke) Date: Tue Dec 6 16:15:48 2005 Subject: [LINK] Sony's rootkit In-Reply-To: <4393E693.3030603@optusnet.com.au> References: <4393E693.3030603@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <20051206051536.GB313@ozzmosis.com> On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 06:04:51PM +1100, Brendan Scott wrote: > Can anyone tell me whether the Sony rootkit debacle got much coverage in AU > press? The story was mentioned (and a attempt made to explain what the rootkit did) by Shaun Micallef on his breakfast show on VEGA FM in Melbourne a few weeks ago. Unfortunately the station is only a few months old and so probably doesn't have much of a large audience, but I thought it was interesting, particularly since they regularly play Sony/BMG's music. Regards Andrew From KerryA.Webb at act.gov.au Tue Dec 6 16:29:47 2005 From: KerryA.Webb at act.gov.au (Webb, KerryA) Date: Tue Dec 6 16:30:00 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' Message-ID: <6728FC12ECED9547862D3B4261FBCE0002CA969D@cal067.act.gov.au> -Andrew Clarke wrote: > > What puzzles me a bit is he himself could've corrected his > own biography > - anonymously if he wished. Instead he made a big fuss about > it and now > due to all the publicity the article is currently locked: > I can't see why it's a bad thing that it's locked. Given that there's someone out there just itching to return it to its previous state. Kerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient: Please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From danny at anatomy.usyd.edu.au Tue Dec 6 16:43:01 2005 From: danny at anatomy.usyd.edu.au (Danny Yee) Date: Tue Dec 6 16:43:08 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <43951A13.9000906@multinode.com.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> <43951A13.9000906@multinode.com.au> Message-ID: <20051206054301.GB20856@mail.medsci.usyd.edu.au> > Elsewhere, I see that "As a result of the incident, Wikipedia no longer > accepts new submissions from anonymous contributors" > > http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=21324&eid=1&edate=20051206 That's just wrong. I'm still reverting anonymous vandalism to the few Wikipedia pages I monitor. Danny. From lannet at lannet.com.au Tue Dec 6 17:25:08 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Tue Dec 6 17:25:27 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <43951A13.9000906@multinode.com.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> <43951A13.9000906@multinode.com.au> Message-ID: <43952EC4.7060605@lannet.com.au> Jim Birch wrote: > Craig Sanders wrote: > >> in further shocking news, it has been discovered that people in pubs and >> other public venues can gossip about other people without having a clue >> what they are talking about. >> >> > And I've just received an email job offer from a Mr John Nash of the > Ukrainian National Animal Welfare Foundation (UANAWF) . All I have to > do is receive donor moneys direct to my bank account, take a cut and > pass the rest along to to these animal lovers in the Ukraine. Look, I > could be way out here, but my bet is these guys would buy a bone for a > staving dog. Damn it, that makes two of us :) > > You have to feel a bit sorry for this guy who has been defamed, but, > between you and me, I reckon the Internet is awash with crap. > > Elsewhere, I see that "As a result of the incident, Wikipedia no longer > accepts new submissions from anonymous contributors" > > http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=21324&eid=1&edate=20051206 > > OTOH, wouldn't the real story of who did what and why in this case be > interesting reading? Where's Hunter S Thompson when you need him! I > wonder if there's some extreme right hate outfit somewhere with a check > list of Democrat elders they are working through. Or, maybe it's a just > personal thing from someone who was inadvertently snubbed at a > Washington cocktail party in 1976 and, despite therapy, hasn't been able > to forget it. -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From lannet at lannet.com.au Tue Dec 6 17:27:46 2005 From: lannet at lannet.com.au (Howard Lowndes) Date: Tue Dec 6 17:28:02 2005 Subject: [LINK] Sony's rootkit In-Reply-To: <20051206051536.GB313@ozzmosis.com> References: <4393E693.3030603@optusnet.com.au> <20051206051536.GB313@ozzmosis.com> Message-ID: <43952F62.2000805@lannet.com.au> andrew clarke wrote: > On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 06:04:51PM +1100, Brendan Scott wrote: > > >>Can anyone tell me whether the Sony rootkit debacle got much coverage in AU >>press? > > > The story was mentioned (and a attempt made to explain what the rootkit > did) by Shaun Micallef on his breakfast show on VEGA FM in Melbourne a > few weeks ago. Unfortunately the station is only a few months old and > so probably doesn't have much of a large audience, but I thought it was > interesting, particularly since they regularly play Sony/BMG's music. Unfortunately when ever you mention something to most people about something that will violate their computer, their eyes glaze over and they go deafly into denial mode. > > Regards > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; When you want a system that works, just, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Tue Dec 6 17:33:15 2005 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (rchirgwin@ozemail.com.au) Date: Tue Dec 6 17:33:22 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <439530AB.7050006@ozemail.com.au> Craig Sanders wrote: >On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:38:56AM +1100, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > > >>A false Wikipedia 'biography' >>By John Seigenthaler >>Posted 11/29/2005 7:12 PM >>USA Today >>http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-29-wikipedia-edit_x.htm >> >> "John Seigenthaler Sr. was the assistant to Attorney General Robert >> Kennedy in the early 1960's. For a brief time, he was thought to >> have been directly involved in the Kennedy assassinations of both >> John, and his brother, Bobby. Nothing was ever proven." >> ? Wikipedia >> >>This is a highly personal story about Internet character assassination. It >>could be your story. >> >> > >in further shocking news, it has been discovered that people in pubs and >other public venues can gossip about other people without having a clue >what they are talking about. > >it is clear that the only way to prevent this heinous crime is to ban >all public gatherings and require all means of communications (larynx, >fingers, etc) to be surgically removed. > > Differences. 1) The guy in the pub doesn's say "I am an encyclopedia". Wikipedia does, on the entry page. All the caveats are somewhere else on the site. 2) Wikipedia rides a spurious goodwill - "This is good because it's a radical new model" - that nobody would give the pub gossip. 3) The (say) Hero of Waterloo doesn't lend its brand as an endorsement of the gossip at the bar. Nor is its name the "entry point" for the information. Its self-description as an encyclopedia* (* with hidden disclaimers) means that Wikipedia positions itself both as an endorsement* (* subject to caveats if you follow this link) and the fact that it centralises search to the URL means Wikipedia is perceived both as offering endorsement and as the aggregator for the stuff inside. It may be that people want to give Wikipedia a wide latitude for mistakes and malice. Fine; but there is no moral imperative that I, having decided that it's not trustworthy, should accept the judgement of others. And the same goes for John Seigenthaler Jr: having been defamed, he has a legitimate complaint and a right to express it. Richard Chirgwin >craig > > > From cas at taz.net.au Tue Dec 6 23:26:16 2005 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Tue Dec 6 23:26:44 2005 Subject: [LINK] A false Wikipedia 'biography' In-Reply-To: <439530AB.7050006@ozemail.com.au> References: <4394B370.B2FE48A9@iimetro.com.au> <20051205231813.GO12961@taz.net.au> <439530AB.7050006@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <20051206122616.GR12961@taz.net.au> On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 05:33:15PM +1100, rchirgwin@ozemail.com.au wrote: > >in further shocking news, it has been discovered that people in pubs and > >other public venues can gossip about other people without having a clue > >what they are talking about. > > > Differences. > 1) The guy in the pub doesn's say "I am an encyclopedia". Wikipedia > does, on the entry page. wikipedia is not the one making the claim, wikipedia is the pub. > All the caveats are somewhere else on the site. all the caveats and disclaimers in a print encylopedia are in an appendix (or possibly an introduction). just like wikipedia, they aren't embedded in every article - they're "hidden" somewhere else to recycle your prejudicial language. > 2) Wikipedia rides a spurious goodwill - "This is good because it's a > radical new model" - that nobody would give the pub gossip. like anything on the net (or off it), wikipedia articles are to be taken with a grain of salt. anyone who doesn't know that is an idiot, and probably also believes the shit they see on TV news without filtering it with any critical thinking. > 3) The (say) Hero of Waterloo doesn't lend its brand as an endorsement > of the gossip at the bar. Nor is its name the "entry point" for the > information. Its self-description as an encyclopedia* (* with hidden it's an encylopedia, just like any other. what's that? you say it's biased? well, so are print encylopedia. huh? it has articles that are false or misleading or just plain bullshit? well, so do print enyclopedia. anyone can create and account and correct those false or misleading articles? of course, that's part of the point of wikipedia...and no, that ISN'T feature of proprietary print encyclopedia. > disclaimers) means that Wikipedia positions itself both as an > endorsement* (* subject to caveats if you follow this link) and > the fact that it centralises search to the URL means Wikipedia is > perceived both as offering endorsement and as the aggregator for the > stuff inside. so now the street directory is at fault too, for providing directions to the pub where malicious gossip can be heard? read wikipedia's own comments about itself. it explicitly disclaims being any kind of authoritative source of information on any subject. it informs all users about it's nature, that it is a collaborative effort, and that anyone may create or edit an article - regardless of whether they are an expert or informed or not. > It may be that people want to give Wikipedia a wide latitude for > mistakes and malice. Fine; i don't want to give wikipedia any more latitude than i'd give anyone/anything else. the guy was an anti-free-speech whinger...and a hypocrite about it, too. free-speech is only acceptable if it's not something he disapproves of. well, tough. it doesn't work that way. speech is either free or it's not free. it can not be "free if i like it". > but there is no moral imperative that I, having decided that it's not > trustworthy, should accept the judgement of others. fine, no-one's saying you have to trust wikipedia. that's your choice, and completely irrelevant to the argument here. > And the same goes for John Seigenthaler Jr: having been defamed, > he has a legitimate complaint and a right to express it. sure he has a right to express his complaint, but he goes way too far...he wants to use his free speech to suppress someon