From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Mar 1 08:09:25 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 08:09:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Sustainable ICT Procurement for Canberra Message-ID: <4B8ADB85.4080608@tomw.net.au> I will be giving evidence to the ACT Legislative Assembly Public Accounts Committee, 9:30 am, 4 March 2010 on "Sustainable ICT Procurement": . This is in Committee Room 1 of the Legislative assembly, London Circuit, Canberra, as part of an Inquiry into ACT Government Procurement: . The public are welcome to attend and I would appreciate some moral support. The hearing is timely as I have been trying to get myself off the ACT Government tender mailing list. The problem is that each week the government sends a message saying that there are tender opportunities available, but not what they are. Other governments allow you to register for a specific category of tender (such as ICT) and then send you details just of those. I have been trying to get myself off the ACT Government list, but no one there seems to be reading their mail. Perhaps they are getting ready for the committee hearing. ;-) --- Submission to the Inquiry into ACT Government Procurement This is a submission to the ACT Legislative Assembly Standing Committee on Public Accounts (1) for the Inquiry into ACT Government Procurement (2). The submission addresses the following terms of reference (3), largely with respect to the use and procurement of computers and telecommunications (ICT): "2. the integration of sustainability considerations that encompass environmental, economic and social aspects throughout procurement processes 3. agency approaches to procurement training and development activities 4. ability of local suppliers to compete for ACT Government procurement opportunities" Integration of sustainability considerations in procurement processes It is suggested that the ACT Government should work with the federal government and other state and local government on common sustainability standards for procurement of government ICT. The federal departments of Environment and Finance are working on green ICT standards at present. It is suggested that the ACT should propose to work with the Commonwealth and other jurisdictions. It is suggested that this be done by using the federal finance department's GovDex system (4). This will allow federal, state and local government officials to participate in joint working parties without the need for face-to-face meetings. It is suggested that there be also participation by industry representatives. The aim should be to release green ICT guidelines by the end of 2009. Agency approaches to procurement training and development activities It is suggested that ACT government agencies should make use of flexible and e-learning for procurement training, using nationally accredited courses. The Canberra Institute of Technology (5) (CIT) is a leader in the field of the development and delivery of such courses and could provide for the ACT Government's needs. In addition other organisations run specialised courses, as an example I have designed a course in Green ICT, including ICT procurement, versions of which are delivered via the web by the Australian National University (6) and the Australian Computer Society (7). Ability of local suppliers to compete for ACT Government procurement opportunities It is suggested that the ACT Government's online tender system (8) be upgraded to provide similar facilities to the Australian Government AusTender (9) and NZ Government GETS (10) Systems. In particular the system should allow a small business to register for a particular category of tender and automatically receive an email message advising of tenders in that category. Also once registered, the business should be able to obtain details of a specific tender via the ACT Government's web site without needing to reenter all their contact details. At present the ACT Government display tenders online and sends a weekly message advising new tenders are available. However, the message does not indicate if there are any tenders the particular business might be interested in. The business has to look through all the new tenders. In contrast the Australian and NZ systems allow a particular category to be registered for, such as computer related tenders. The business then can look at that specific tender. At present the business has to reenter all its contact details in order to download a tender from the ACT tender web site. In contrast the Australian and NZ systems only requiring registering this information once. Tom Worthington 24 July 2009 PO Box 13 Belconnen ACT 2617 http://www.tomw.net.au/ 1 Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Legislative Assembly for the ACT, 2009: 2 Inquiry into ACT Government Procurement, Legislative Assembly for the ACT, 7/05/2009: 3 Terms of reference, Inquiry into ACT Government Procurement, Legislative Assembly for the ACT, 2009: 4 Welcome to GovDex, Department of Finance and Deregulation, 2009: 5 Canberra Institute of Technology (CIT), 2009: 6 COMP7310: Green ICT Strategies, ANU, 2009: 7 Green ICT Strategies, ACS, 2009P: 8 Open tenders, ACT Procurement Solutions, 2009: 9 AusTender Homepage, Department of Finance and Deregulation , 2009: 10 New Zealand Government Electronic Tenders Service, Government Procurement Development Group (GPDG) of the NZ Ministry of Economic Development, 2009: --- -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au Mon Mar 1 12:00:34 2010 From: Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au (Birch, Jim) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:00:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Chess, Computers and AI In-Reply-To: <20100225105955.GM24121@taz.net.au> References: <20100225105955.GM24121@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D233332876@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> "The first chess program put into practice was designed by legendary British mathematician Alan Turing in 1952, and he didn't even have a computer! He processed the algorithm on pieces of paper and this "paper machine" played a competent game." If you're interested, like me, but don't follow the field closely, like me, there's a great article by Gary Kasparov, the retired world champion, on chess and computers on the New York Review of Books site. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23592 Well worth reading - as is most stuff at the NYRB. Jim CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER The information in this transmission may be confidential and/or protected by legal professional privilege, and is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. If you are not such a person, you are warned that any disclosure, copying or dissemination of the information is unauthorised. If you have received the transmission in error, please immediately contact this office by telephone, fax or email, to inform us of the error and to enable arrangements to be made for the destruction of the transmission, or its return at our cost. No liability is accepted for any unauthorised use of the information contained in this transmission. If the transmission contains advice, the advice is based on instructions in relation to, and is provided to the addressee in connection with, the matter mentioned above. Responsibility is not accepted for reliance upon it by any other person or for any other purpose. From stephen at melbpc.org.au Mon Mar 1 15:44:53 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 04:44:53 GMT Subject: [LINK] Commercial-in-Confidence Message-ID: <20100301044453.985898DE@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Linkers, I have a question regarding 'commercial-in-confidence'. Today, in a net-based educational forum, one member asked how much other schools paying for a particular service from one particular supplier and were quickly told by a forum member that that information was Commercial in Confidence. The information requested was only the costs schools were charged by this company. It didn't entail any special commercial-secrets which might harm that company if made public. (Eg, product secret-sauce). In this day of wide communications, the request seemed, imho, reasonable, (possibly saving the Australian tax-payer thousands of dollars for every school) and the "Commercial-in-Confidence" clauses in the sales contract seems anti-competitive. There is other such companies/services available. So my question. What is the legality of Commercial-in-Confidence clauses regarding product/service price in sale contracts for schools / anywhere? Such clauses could offer the potential for huge commercial rip-offs imho, and in this day of wide professional sub-set communications it does seem unfair to prohibit professionals comparing prices of different suppliers. Cheers, Stephen From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Mon Mar 1 15:52:05 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:52:05 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australia Post's new web site preview Message-ID: <4B8B47F5.9000705@hunterlink.net.au> I find the constantly-changing graphic a bit annoying. Blocking javascript fixes that, without losing any functionality of consequence. I'm not a fan of drop-down menus, though they do cram a lot into a small space. Have you considered plain-vanilla HTML, or at least minimising the XHTML and scripting? Tawdis threw up a substantial number of accessibility issues. It would pay you to run the site through that, and any of the others listed at that take your fancy. The reports that some of those tools generate might come in handy. In the current climate, I'd be looking for general accessibility and mobile friendliness. On 28/02/2010 3:45 PM, Josh Rowe wrote: > Linkers, > > I know that the Link community cares about web site standards and accessibility. > > With this in mind, please have a look at a preview of Australia Post's new web site and let us know what you think. > > http://auspost.com.au/preview > ... -- David Boxall | Drink no longer water, | but use a little wine http://david.boxall.id.au | for thy stomach's sake ... | King James Bible | 1 Timothy 5:23 From pbolger at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 18:03:54 2010 From: pbolger at gmail.com (Paul Bolger) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:03:54 +1300 Subject: [LINK] Australia Post's new web site preview In-Reply-To: <4B8B47F5.9000705@hunterlink.net.au> References: <4B8B47F5.9000705@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: > I find the constantly-changing graphic a bit annoying. Blocking > javascript fixes that, without losing any functionality of consequence. You can just hit the pause button to stop it too. Maybe it could set a cookie with the user's preference, so that if you pause the slideshow and come back later it stays paused. > I'm not a fan of drop-down menus, though they do cram a lot into a small > space. Have you considered plain-vanilla HTML, or at least minimising > the XHTML and scripting? I'm not a huge fan of drop-downs/fly-outs etc either. The site map http://preview.auspost.com.au/sitemap.html is pretty well a plain vanilla version of the home page, although minus the 'I want to' section - which is what a lot of visitors will be wanting. I think it's pretty good overall. The only suggestion I have might be to make an accessible (all on one page with no clicking between sections) version of the 'I want to' section. And maybe put the sitemap link up the top too. It's a bit too useful to be buried down the bottom. > Tawdis ?threw up a substantial number of > accessibility issues. It would pay you to run the site through that, and > any of the others listed at > that take your fancy. The reports that some of those tools generate > might come in handy. In the current climate, I'd be looking for general > accessibility and mobile friendliness. > > On 28/02/2010 3:45 PM, Josh Rowe wrote: >> ?Linkers, >> >> ?I know that the Link community cares about web site standards and accessibility. >> >> ?With this in mind, please have a look at a preview of Australia Post's new web site and let us know what you think. >> >> ?http://auspost.com.au/preview >> ?... > -- > David Boxall ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?Drink no longer water, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?but use a little wine > http://david.boxall.id.au ? ? ? | ?for thy stomach's sake ... > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ? ? ? ? ? ?King James Bible > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1 Timothy 5:23 > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Mar 1 18:25:50 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:25:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australia Post's new web site preview In-Reply-To: <20100228044513.GA21795@box> References: <20100228044513.GA21795@box> Message-ID: <4B8B6BFE.8000606@tomw.net.au> Josh Rowe wrote: > ... preview of Australia Post's new web site ... > http://auspost.com.au/preview I was mystified by the animated graphic which showed a sequence of photos of people, with slogans in the top left and numbered boxes in the bottom right corner. Presumably these are meant to represent happy Australia Post customers and workers, but what are the numbers for? What is the box with one double quote in it at the end of the list of numbers for? When I put the pointer over this, the double quote moves from the top of the box to the bottom. I have no idea what this is meant to communicate. While I realise photos of people can be a powerful marketing technique, in this case the animated graphic draws my eye away from the useful content of the page to a useless image. It is as if Australia Post is trying to promote themselves as a vacuous marketing organisation and distract from the useful services they provide. But otherwise the web site is not bad: * There was only one HTML validation error on Line 324, Column 66: "Attribute "target" exists, but can not be used for this element". * The TAW automated accessibility check reported zero level 1, two level 2 and three level 3 problems . * It is a shame the page is not mobile friendly: . ps: Australia Post also seems to be taking "Cloud Computing" literally, with an image of someone lying on a cloud using a laptop. ;-) -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From scott at doc.net.au Mon Mar 1 18:38:04 2010 From: scott at doc.net.au (Scott Howard) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:38:04 -0800 Subject: [LINK] Australia Post's new web site preview In-Reply-To: <4B8B6BFE.8000606@tomw.net.au> References: <20100228044513.GA21795@box> <4B8B6BFE.8000606@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Tom Worthington wrote: > I was mystified by the animated graphic which showed a sequence of > photos of people, with slogans in the top left and numbered boxes in the > bottom right corner. Presumably these are meant to represent happy > Australia Post customers and workers, but what are the numbers for? Have you actually used the Web in the past few years? This is fairly basic Marketing Homepage 101... The "numbers" are image currently being shown, as the images cycle between the various (in this case, 4) images. The play/pause button on the end allows you to stop or restart the rotation between those images. cnn.com, whitehouse.gov, dell.com, hp.com - the first 4 websites I picked at random and they all do exactly the same thing. I'm presuming that the images shown at the moment are place-holders which would be used for more relevant and 'click-worthy' images once the site goes live (Currently they all seem to link to the "About Us" page) Scott. From ivan at itrundle.com Mon Mar 1 19:09:48 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 19:09:48 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australia Post's new web site preview In-Reply-To: References: <20100228044513.GA21795@box> <4B8B6BFE.8000606@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <3C849903-9523-44AE-886D-AFBDB994253F@itrundle.com> After waiting forever for it to load... My only concern about the preview is that it doesn't fit on my screen. I can only view the top portion of the site, so miss out on the latest news, personalised stamps, Australia Today magazine, and the bottom menu. Using a standard 1024 x 768 might not be standard anymore. Those with 800 x 600 have a lot of scrolling to do! The oversized header is therefore a waste of valuable space, as is the whitespace directly underneath with only the font scaling, RSS and print icons (people still use these things?). If I had to use such anachronisms, I'd place them alongside the Home | Contact us | Help... though I see that a breadcrumb trail is meant to fill the white space when needed (which might be useful even though the site is not very big). The dropdown headings look way oversized and clunky (unprofessional) on a Mac compared with the rest of the fonts used, but maybe this is a non-Windows thing. It looks like it was designed by someone else when the rest of the site uses different fonts and scaling (maybe it is meant to look web2.0-ish: but the rest of the site doesn't, so it jarrs). Other than that, the site is fine (taking into account the overall accessibility issues mentioned by others) - but heaven help those viewing it on an iPhone: the top dropdown menus are too light to be viewed clearly until scaled enormously - but they work with reasonable contrast (i.e. dropdown options) once the dropdown is chosen. iT From stephen at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 2 01:20:01 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 14:20:01 GMT Subject: [LINK] e-book prices Message-ID: <20100301142001.871E58DE@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Math of Publishing Meets the E-Book By MOTOKO RICH, New York Times, Published: February 28, 2010 In the emerging world of e-books, many consumers assume that it is only logical publishers are saving vast amounts by not having to print or distribute paper books, leaving room to pass along those savings to their customers. Publishers largely agree, which is why in negotiations with Apple, five of the six largest publishers of trade books have said they would price most digital editions of new fiction and nonfiction books from $12.99 to $14.99 on the forthcoming iPad tablet ? significantly lower than the average $26 price for a hardcover book. But publishers also say consumers exaggerate the savings and have developed unrealistic expectations about how low the prices of e-books can go. Yes, they say, printing costs may vanish, but a raft of expenses that apply to all books, like overhead, marketing and royalties, are still in effect. All of which raises the question: Just how much does it actually cost to produce a printed book versus a digital one? Publishers differ on how they account for various costs, but a composite, and necessarily simplified, picture might look like this, according to interviews with executives at several major houses: On a typical hardcover, the publisher sets a suggested retail price. Let?s say it is $26. The bookseller will generally pay the publisher $13. Out of that gross revenue, the publisher pays about $3.25 to print, store and ship the book, including unsold copies returned to the publisher by booksellers. For cover design, typesetting and copy-editing, the publisher pays about 80 cents. Marketing costs average around $1 but may go higher or lower depending on the title. Most of these costs will deline on a per-unit basis as a book sells more copies. Let?s not forget the author, who is generally paid a 15 percent royalty on the hardcover price, which on a $26 book works out to $3.90. For big best-selling authors ? and even occasionally first-time writers whose publishers have taken a risk ? the author?s advance may be so large that the author effectively gets a higher slice of the gross revenue. Publishers generally assume they will write off a portion of many authors? advances because they are not earned back in sales. Without accounting for such write-offs, the publisher is left with $4.05, out of which it must pay overhead for editors, cover art designers, office space and electricity before taking a profit. Now let?s look at an e-book. Under the agreements with Apple, the publishers will set the consumer price and the retailer will act as an agent, earning a 30 percent commission on each sale. So on a $12.99 e- book, the publisher takes in $9.09. Out of that gross revenue, the publisher pays about 50 cents to convert the text to a digital file, typeset it in digital form and copy-edit it. Marketing is about 78 cents. The author?s royalty ? a subject of fierce debate between literary agents and publishing executives ? is calculated among some of the large trade publishers as 25 percent of the gross revenue, while others are calculating it off the consumer price. So on a $12.99 e-book, the royalty could be anywhere from $2.27 to $3.25. All that leaves the publisher with something ranging from $4.56 to $5.54, before paying overhead costs or writing off unearned advances. At a glance, it appears the e-book is more profitable. But publishers point out that e-books still represent a small sliver of total sales, from 3 to 5 percent. If e-book sales start to replace some hardcover sales, the publishers say, they will still have many of the fixed costs associated with print editions, like warehouse space, but they will be spread among fewer print copies. Moreover, in the current print model, publishers can recoup many of their costs, and start to make higher profits, on paperback editions. If publishers start a new e-book?s life at a price similar to that of a paperback book, and reduce the price later, it may be more difficult to cover costs and support new authors. Another reason publishers want to avoid lower e-book prices is that print booksellers like Barnes & Noble, Borders and independents across the country would be unable to compete. As more consumers buy electronic readers and become comfortable with reading digitally, if the e-books are priced much lower than the print editions, no one but the aficionados and collectors will want to buy paper books. (Page 2 of 2) ?If you want bookstores to stay alive, then you want to slow down this movement to e-books,? said Mike Shatzkin, chief executive of the Idea Logical Company, a consultant to publishers. ?The simplest way to slow down e-books is not to make them too cheap.? In many ways, the $12.99-$14.99 price bracket for e-books is an experiment. With it, the publishers seem to have beaten back, for the moment, the $9.99 price that Amazon has offered for Kindle versions of most new releases and best sellers, but it remains to be seen whether consumers will tolerate that. Music prices, for example, have come under significant pressure in the digital age: from 2000 to 2009, the price of audio discs, tapes and other media, which includes digitized music, fell a little more than 3 percent, according to the federal Consumer Price Index. Prices of so-called recreational books, meanwhile, have increased just over 6 percent during that same period. Certainly, publishers argue that it would be difficult to sustain a vibrant business on much lower prices. Margins would be squeezed, and it would become more difficult to nurture new authors. ?Most of the time these people are probably not going to make huge sums of money the first time they publish,? said Carolyn Reidy, chief executive of Simon & Schuster. In fact, the industry is based on the understanding that as much as 70 percent of the books published will make little or no money at all for the publisher once costs are paid. Some of these books are by writers who are experimenting with form or genre, or those who just do not have recognizable names. ?You?re less apt to take a chance on an important first novel if you don?t have the profit margin on the volume of the big books,? said Lindy Hess, director of the Columbia Publishing Course, a program that trains young aspirants for jobs in the publishing industry. ?The truth about this business is that, with rare exceptions, nobody makes a great deal of money.? For many authors, pricing is a thicket of confusion. ?None of us know what books cost. None of us know what kind of profits hardcover or paperback publishers make,? said Anne Rice, the author of ?Interview With a Vampire? and the ?Songs of the Seraphim? series. She said she did not know whether publishers had struck the right price for e-books. ?For all I know, a million books at $9.99 might be great for an author,? Ms. Rice said. ?The only thing I think is a mistake is people trying to hold back e- books or Kindle and trying to head off this revolution by building a dam. It?s not going to work.? -- Cheers, Stephen From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Tue Mar 2 09:40:49 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 09:40:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] more on AFACT -- an essay Message-ID: <8fplq0$3kiscj@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Good piece in The Age today on this whole AFACT/ISP/copyright thingo. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/blogs/pinch-of-basil/torrents-of-abuse-of-copy-rights-and-copy-wrongs/20100302-pdsy.html Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Tue Mar 2 16:58:07 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:58:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Senator Lundy live online from CeBIT Germany Tonight Message-ID: <4B8CA8EF.2020708@tomw.net.au> Senator Kate Lundy will be speaking live online from CeBIT Germany at 9:30pm AEDT: --- ?Connected Worlds? is the main topic at CeBIT 2010, and Senator Lundy will be speaking about how the Australian Government has set the scene through policies such as the National Broadband Network, the Digital Education Revolution and the FoI reforms to put ICT at the heart of social and economic growth. She will also discuss the Australian Gov 2.0 Taskforce report (launched December last year) which is a practical blueprint for a more open, transparent, participatory and open government. The Senator will discuss the important of open data, citizen-centric services and the collaboration of government with citizens to co-design the government of the future. She will also discuss important changes to ICT procurement in the Australian government, and some of the opportunities and challenges facing the industry today. ..." --- ps: Seems a long time since we sat around a cafe table in Canberra, discussing how to put the nation online: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Wed Mar 3 05:42:07 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 05:42:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] more on ebook pricing - MacMillan, low Message-ID: <8eavh8$p93nq@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Following on from yesterday: >Sargent Blogs on Pricing >Macmillan ceo John Sargent has taken up the call to speak to readers >directly about ebook pricing with a new >posting >on the company's blog. He notes that the agency model will eliminate >any delayed releases of new books in ebook editions: "Readers were >clearly frustrated at the lack of availability of new titles, and >the change to the agency model will solve this problem." And he >underscores, as we have mentioned before, that hardcover NYT >bestsellers will cost $12.99 or less under the new model. He points >out to readers that the company is providing "a tremendous discount" >on new release ebooks versus their print list prices. > >Sargent also makes another important point: for people who cannot >afford, or simply do not wish to pay, over ten dollars for an ebook, >the bulk of the company's list will be available for purchase: > >"There has been a lot of concern from e-book readers that $9.99 >books will no longer be available. Most Macmillan e-books will still >be priced below ten dollars. Our e-book sales over the last year >clearly indicate that only about a third of our e-book business is >in the digital versions of new release hardcovers. Unit sales of >older books far exceed our new release hardcover sales, so the $9.99 >and lower prices will continue to represent the largest portion of >our business.In short, we will continue to do what we have always >done: provide the reader with a vast selection of great books over a >wide range of prices." > >Needless to say, we're glad to see Sargent open a channel for direct >communication with readers ("there are millions of you and one of >me. So, please feel free to post questions or comments below") and >hope that more publishers find ways to join in the dialogue. Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 3 08:46:18 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 08:46:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online Message-ID: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> This is rather scary. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/02/2834702.htm > Medicare privacy breaches 'only the beginning' > By Carly Laird for PM > > Medicare says it has implemented privacy controls to curb snooping. > (ABC News: Giulio Saggin, file photo) > > Revelations that Medicare employees are being investigated for > spying on customers' personal information have renewed fears from > privacy advocates that healthcare staff cannot be trusted. > As the Federal Government works to bring in a national identity > scheme for patients, around 400 cases have emerged of unauthorised > snooping on people's private records over the past four years. > > Medicare says it has implemented privacy controls and that the > number of cases of snooping has been getting smaller, however it is > not known who or how far the information was allowed to spread. > > The agency has given few details of how the snooping was allowed to > occur and no one from Medicare was available to speak to PM this > afternoon. > > The privacy commissioner, Karen Curtis, insists Medicare is not > ignoring the issue. > > "Any privacy breach is a concern, but the fact that Medicare is > monitoring and investigating these potential breaches of personal > information and they've got systems in place, that's actually good > news," she said. > > Medicare says staff caught snooping in the past four years have been > disciplined but will not give details. > > Juanita Fernando, the chair of the health sub-committee at the > Australian Privacy Foundation, says Medicare's assurances may be of > little comfort to people whose privacy has been breached. > > "Wherever there is a whole range of information collected together, > regardless of people's ethics or how good they are, they're going to > look at it. And they do it basically out of curiosity," Dr Fernando > said. > > "I know anecdotally of ambulance officers during non-emergency cases > of patients who, because they've got nothing else to do, just read > patients' files while they're sitting and waiting. > > "And we already know that although Medicare staff are highly trusted > by Australian consumers and patients, Medicare workers are still > human and that's why the breaches occurred." > > > Patient records > Dr Fernando is concerned the privacy breaches at Medicare are a sign > of things to come. > > The Government has introduced bills into Parliament for what it > calls an "individual health identifier". They bills go to a Senate > inquiry next week. > > The ID number will be used to collate all patient records in one > place so health providers can gain access to relevant information at > the one time. > > It is the first stage of the Council of Australian Governments' > national electronic health plan. > > "It's of real concern to me and to many people who contact the > Australian Privacy Foundation," Dr Fernando said. > > "They're very concerned about it because if I'm a miscreant of some > sort, I can just use a single number and access people's records > from whatever health service I decide to go into." > > To stop this from happening, Dr Fernando says security controls must > be put in place to guard against the known ways people breach health > information. > > "You don't develop honey pots. You don't develop huge amassed files > with people's information, so that if security is breached it is > breached in one or two instances not for the entire population of > Australia," she said. > > > Extra security > Dr Mukesh Haikerwal, the former head of the Australian Medical > Association and the current head of the clinical unit at the > National E-Health Transition Authority, says the new system will > provide extra security for patients. > > "The way in which the system will be rolled out is far more secure > with these new arrangements than they are with a paper record," he > said. > > "With a paper record today you can potentially wander into a medical > record department, anybody can wander in and have a look at > somebody's notes without anybody knowing what's going on. > > "With the new arrangements, the [ID] number is only a number and > pertains to no medical information. So the number being generated by > Medicare actually has no medical information attached to it. > > "In order to get access to medical information the person has to be > an authorised healthcare provider." > > Dr Fernando says no one can say whether the new system will be more > secure because "nobody is actually looking at the facts". > > "For instance, notes about the Medicare data breach are tucked away > on the Australian Privacy Commission's website. We essentially don't > know what's going to happen," she said. > > "It's like taking a great big jump off into the unknown and being > comfortable that the Government is going to be trustworthy and > capable enough to take care of us all." > > If the legislation is passed it could only be a matter of months > before the ID numbers are used by healthcare professionals. > > -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 09:16:45 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:16:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> Message-ID: On 03/03/2010, at 8:46 AM, Kim Holburn wrote: > This is rather scary. Well, perhaps. I'm puzzled to understand Juanita Fernando's declaration: is 'being curious' a privacy or social problem? Karen Curtis puzzles me further by using public service speak in describing 'potential breaches', which is quite different to 'breach'. ABC editors should be more careful in scanning this stuff: 'it is not known who or how far the information was allowed to spread' is poorly constructed waffle ('who... the information was allowed to spread'?). And where is the link to the heading used? I wonder if Medicare breaches are of any concern to the Facebook generation? iT > > http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/02/2834702.htm > >> Medicare privacy breaches 'only the beginning' >> By Carly Laird for PM >> >> Medicare says it has implemented privacy controls to curb snooping. >> (ABC News: Giulio Saggin, file photo) >> >> Revelations that Medicare employees are being investigated for >> spying on customers' personal information have renewed fears from >> privacy advocates that healthcare staff cannot be trusted. >> As the Federal Government works to bring in a national identity >> scheme for patients, around 400 cases have emerged of unauthorised >> snooping on people's private records over the past four years. >> >> Medicare says it has implemented privacy controls and that the >> number of cases of snooping has been getting smaller, however it is >> not known who or how far the information was allowed to spread. >> >> The agency has given few details of how the snooping was allowed to >> occur and no one from Medicare was available to speak to PM this >> afternoon. >> >> The privacy commissioner, Karen Curtis, insists Medicare is not >> ignoring the issue. >> >> "Any privacy breach is a concern, but the fact that Medicare is >> monitoring and investigating these potential breaches of personal >> information and they've got systems in place, that's actually good >> news," she said. >> >> Medicare says staff caught snooping in the past four years have been >> disciplined but will not give details. >> >> Juanita Fernando, the chair of the health sub-committee at the >> Australian Privacy Foundation, says Medicare's assurances may be of >> little comfort to people whose privacy has been breached. >> >> "Wherever there is a whole range of information collected together, >> regardless of people's ethics or how good they are, they're going to >> look at it. And they do it basically out of curiosity," Dr Fernando >> said. >> >> "I know anecdotally of ambulance officers during non-emergency cases >> of patients who, because they've got nothing else to do, just read >> patients' files while they're sitting and waiting. >> >> "And we already know that although Medicare staff are highly trusted >> by Australian consumers and patients, Medicare workers are still >> human and that's why the breaches occurred." >> >> >> Patient records >> Dr Fernando is concerned the privacy breaches at Medicare are a sign >> of things to come. >> >> The Government has introduced bills into Parliament for what it >> calls an "individual health identifier". They bills go to a Senate >> inquiry next week. >> >> The ID number will be used to collate all patient records in one >> place so health providers can gain access to relevant information at >> the one time. >> >> It is the first stage of the Council of Australian Governments' >> national electronic health plan. >> >> "It's of real concern to me and to many people who contact the >> Australian Privacy Foundation," Dr Fernando said. >> >> "They're very concerned about it because if I'm a miscreant of some >> sort, I can just use a single number and access people's records >> from whatever health service I decide to go into." >> >> To stop this from happening, Dr Fernando says security controls must >> be put in place to guard against the known ways people breach health >> information. >> >> "You don't develop honey pots. You don't develop huge amassed files >> with people's information, so that if security is breached it is >> breached in one or two instances not for the entire population of >> Australia," she said. >> >> >> Extra security >> Dr Mukesh Haikerwal, the former head of the Australian Medical >> Association and the current head of the clinical unit at the >> National E-Health Transition Authority, says the new system will >> provide extra security for patients. >> >> "The way in which the system will be rolled out is far more secure >> with these new arrangements than they are with a paper record," he >> said. >> >> "With a paper record today you can potentially wander into a medical >> record department, anybody can wander in and have a look at >> somebody's notes without anybody knowing what's going on. >> >> "With the new arrangements, the [ID] number is only a number and >> pertains to no medical information. So the number being generated by >> Medicare actually has no medical information attached to it. >> >> "In order to get access to medical information the person has to be >> an authorised healthcare provider." >> >> Dr Fernando says no one can say whether the new system will be more >> secure because "nobody is actually looking at the facts". >> >> "For instance, notes about the Medicare data breach are tucked away >> on the Australian Privacy Commission's website. We essentially don't >> know what's going to happen," she said. >> >> "It's like taking a great big jump off into the unknown and being >> comfortable that the Government is going to be trustworthy and >> capable enough to take care of us all." >> >> If the legislation is passed it could only be a matter of months >> before the ID numbers are used by healthcare professionals. >> >> > -- > Kim Holburn > IT Network & Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 > mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Wed Mar 3 09:39:46 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:39:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australia Post's new web site preview In-Reply-To: References: <20100228044513.GA21795@box> <4B8B6BFE.8000606@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <4B8D93B2.1080005@tomw.net.au> Scott Howard wrote: > On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Tom Worthington > wrote: >> I was mystified by the animated graphic... > > Have you actually used the Web in the past few years? ... Yes, occasionally. I do see odd things on web pages, but usually ignore them. > ... The "numbers" are image currently being shown... The play/pause button on the end allows you > to stop or restart the rotation ... I did not recognise the pause button as such, the pause symbol was not centred in the square, it was in the top left corner. I assumed that what I was seeing was a double quote mark from some text which did not fit in the box. Also it moved to the bottom when I put the pointer over it, which a pause button does not normally do. > cnn.com, whitehouse.gov, dell.com, hp.com - the first 4 websites I > picked at random and they all do exactly the same thing. ... Of the four web pages you cited, only one, hp.com, displayed any animated graphics on my screen. The HP site was also the only one with numbered boxes on an image. These were much more subtle that on the Australia Post site, to the point were they were almost invisible. Also the play controls were recognisable as such. In any case I doubt that most people would ever see them, so no harm is done by having these pointless controls. The image did not change as rapidly as on the Australia Post site and so was less distracting. > I'm presuming that the images shown at the moment are place-holders > which would be used for more relevant and 'click-worthy' images ... This may be "marketing 101" but it still does not look like a good idea to me, nor than common. The HP example does not make the case, as most people would not notice the controls. The ability to be able to choose between slides with marketing slogans on them does not seem to be something which would be of interest to customers, just marketing people. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From swilson at lockstep.com.au Wed Mar 3 09:46:29 2010 From: swilson at lockstep.com.au (Stephen Wilson) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:46:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> Message-ID: <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 8:46 AM, Kim Holburn wrote: > > This is rather scary. > > Well, perhaps. I'm puzzled to understand Juanita Fernando's > declaration: is 'being curious' a privacy or social problem? I agree it's very scary. Why does it matter Ivan what sort of problem curiosity is? The real issue is that it is against the law for anyone to exercise their curiosity and peek at the records of another. > I wonder if Medicare breaches are of any concern to the Facebook > generation? So what if they're not? Are we to delegate privacy policy formulation for the entire community to a cohort that for barely five years has got itself hooked on the instant gratification and sheer fun of online social networking? I think not. Cheers, Stephen Wilson Lockstep www.lockstep.com.au From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 10:07:50 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:07:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: On 03/03/2010, at 9:46 AM, Stephen Wilson wrote: > The real issue is that it is against the law for anyone > to exercise their curiosity and peek at the records of another. Social behaviours are not always thwarted by the imposition of laws. I am not scared by these things, but I am concerned. For anyone to suggest what 'the real issue is' only convinces me that it is not, or that it demands deeper examination. > Are we to delegate privacy policy formulation > for the entire community to a cohort that for barely five years has got > itself hooked on the instant gratification and sheer fun of online > social networking? I think not. I would hope that any policy formulation was developed for the entire community, and with support from the whole community. It's unlikely to be so if such a disparaging view is expressed of one cohort. iT From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 10:22:20 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:22:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 10:07 AM 3/03/2010, Ivan Trundle wrote: >I would hope that any policy formulation was developed for the >entire community, and with support from the whole community. It's >unlikely to be so if such a disparaging view is expressed of one cohort. Of course that cohort is the one that seems to lack social responsibility awareness until late 20s (hoon drivers), so I'd rather be a bit more conservative than let them drive this issue. This is a case where the elders have a broader experience of human nature and should be given the lead. Less access to and less exposure of one's information the better in this case. I think a simple example of "let's have your girlfriend who works at Medicare able to look up your STD record" would be enough to convince even the worst of the 'bullet proof' in that cohort. Or, how about let's look up the PMs health records. NO, wait, they're special and get pseudonymous protections. True story. I guess if they had to have the same risks as the rest of the community, they may think twice about their policies. When is someone going to pose that problem to Roxon? I wonder if she has anything to hide besides her address? Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From bpa at iss.net.au Wed Mar 3 10:30:48 2010 From: bpa at iss.net.au (Brenda Aynsley) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:00:48 +1030 Subject: [LINK] [Fwd: E-HEALTH Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs] Message-ID: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> I thought the e-health identifier was to be the medicare number? Is this another attempt at introducing an Australia Card? cheers brenda -------- Original Message -------- THE HON NICOLA ROXON MP MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING MEDIA RELEASE ? 26 FEBRUARY 2010 FURTHER PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS ON E-HEALTH In recognition of the ongoing community and stakeholder interest in e-health, the Government has referred the Healthcare Identifiers Bill to the Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs. This gives the public and stakeholders an additional opportunity to find out further information about Individual Healthcare Identifiers and provide feedback on the proposed legislation. The legislation, the Healthcare Identifiers Bill, allows for a unique 16 digit number to be created for every Australian and all health care providers by the middle of this year. Individual Healthcare Identifier? or IHI?s, are to be provided to all individuals, in addition to Medicare numbers, as a further step to ensure the privacy and security of an e-health system. IHI?s are essential in creating a single process to accurately and consistently identify patients and healthcare providers. This legislation is an important part of the Rudd Government?s reform agenda. Without healthcare identifiers there cannot be an integrated, consistent, e-health system in Australia. The Committee is now seeking written submissions from interested individuals and organisations. For further information on the Committee?s investigation or to find out how to make a written submission, please visit www.aph.gov.au. Submissions should be received by 05 March 2010. The Committee will report on 15 March 2010. For all media inquiries, please contact the Minister's Office on 02 6277 7220. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Security Advisor of the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, 38 Sydney Ave, Forrest ACT 2603, telephone (02) 6271-1376 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Brenda Aynsley, FACS, PCP, HLM, ACCE Associate Vice President Australian Computer Society (ACS) Director Community Affairs Board, ACS Immediate Past Chairman ACS SA Branch www.acs.org.au/sa -- Director Oz Business Partners http://www.ozbusinesspartners.com/ Mobile:+61(0) 412 662 988 || Skype/Yahoo/Twitter: baynsley Phone:08 7127 0107 : 08 8357 8844 Fax:08 8272 7486 -- *Produced by Ubuntu and Mozilla Thunderbird* From swilson at lockstep.com.au Wed Mar 3 10:39:48 2010 From: swilson at lockstep.com.au (Stephen Wilson) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:39:48 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 9:46 AM, Stephen Wilson wrote: > > The real issue is that it is against the law for anyone to exercise > > their curiosity and peek at the records of another. > > Social behaviours are not always thwarted by the imposition of laws.... > For anyone to suggest what 'the real issue is' only convinces me > that it is not, or that it demands deeper examination. That's a fair point in the general, but in my defence, I was trying to stress that what matters most in this particular case is that staff were breaking the law by peeking at records. Judging by the way Ivan you prefaced your response to Juanita with "perhaps" [the Medicare breach is scary], I thought that your examination of the reasons for curiosity was deflecting from the fact that privacy laws were broken. Cheers, Stephen Wilson Lockstep www.lockstep.com.au From stil at stilgherrian.com Wed Mar 3 10:45:03 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:45:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] [Fwd: E-HEALTH Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs] In-Reply-To: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> References: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> Message-ID: <7B53DAE8-1201-4014-9066-ED35625A8392@stilgherrian.com> On 03/03/2010, at 10:30 AM, Brenda Aynsley wrote: > I thought the e-health identifier was to be the medicare number? Is > this another attempt at introducing an Australia Card? Medicare numbers are not unique to an individual. Currently members of a family often sit on the same Medicare number as "person number 1" etc. I suspect (without any more thought than that expended as I type this sentence) that moving everyone to a unique identifier would enhance privacy. Think daughter of controlling father seeking advice on birth control. Whether a health identifier is an "Australia Card" depends on which aspects of Australiacardness you wish to emphasise for political purposes. ;) In the Austrian health system, everyone has a unique identifier, but they they present a pseudonym to each health provider -- a different but consistent pseudonym for each. The provider knows the person is an Austrian citizen and entitled to care, but they cannot match them to any other part of their life. A similar system is rolling out across the Danish government, banking and education sector. I spoke to one of the people who worked on this in a recent "Patch Monday" podcast. http://www.zdnet.com.au/blogs/patch-monday/soa/Proving-your-identity-online/0,2001107879,339301276,00.htm or http://is.gd/9ySXP The program intro presents some background, and the relevant interview starts around 4'35". Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 10:50:10 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:50:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 10:39 AM, Stephen Wilson wrote: > Ivan Trundle wrote: >> Social behaviours are not always thwarted by the imposition of laws.... >> For anyone to suggest what 'the real issue is' only convinces me >> that it is not, or that it demands deeper examination. > > That's a fair point in the general, but in my defence, I was trying to > stress that what matters most in this particular case is that staff were > breaking the law by peeking at records. Judging by the way Ivan you > prefaced your response to Juanita with "perhaps" [the Medicare breach is > scary], I thought that your examination of the reasons for curiosity was > deflecting from the fact that privacy laws were broken. My concern was the way in which it was described: for the privacy commissioner to use the words 'potential breaches' is disingenuous. For the reporter to suggest that it was 'only the beginning' is laughable. That aside, I used 'perhaps' because, unlike Kim's assertion, I don't view 'potential privacy breaches' as being 'very scary'. I am usually scared by things which cause me to palpitate and sweat, not by 'potential' lax implementation of privacy controls. The report was even more puzzling to me since it declares that the number of cases is getting smaller, so why all the hyperbole? Warmly iT From bob.jansen at turtlelane.com.au Wed Mar 3 11:11:32 2010 From: bob.jansen at turtlelane.com.au (Dr Bob Jansen) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:11:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] [Fwd: E-HEALTH Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs] In-Reply-To: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> References: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> Message-ID: <2A320CB6-01A1-42A8-A36C-2AA8C3CEF98F@turtlelane.com.au> Brenda, I don't understand how you can read 'Australia Card' into this. Just because every Australian will have this number and it is controlled by the Federal Government, is no reason to cynically assume they'll just use it to link with other systems such as tax, community services, etc. :-) I give it twelve months before we see all the arguments for extending its reach - all the arguments we have heard before. And this time, there will be an existing scheme already in place rather than, as before, introducing such a scheme. Of course the overriding argument will be 'saving money' but the Feds will continue to squander whatever money they take from us mere mortals on their overseas trips, gold cards, superannuation, etc. Oh dear, I'm as cynical as you! bobj On 03/03/2010, at 10:30 AM, Brenda Aynsley wrote: > I thought the e-health identifier was to be the medicare number? Is > this another attempt at introducing an Australia Card? > > cheers > brenda > > -------- Original Message -------- > > THE HON NICOLA ROXON MP > > MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING > > MEDIA RELEASE ? 26 FEBRUARY 2010 > > FURTHER PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS ON E-HEALTH > > In recognition of the ongoing community and stakeholder interest in > e-health, the Government has referred the Healthcare Identifiers > Bill to > the Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs. > > This gives the public and stakeholders an additional opportunity to > find > out further information about Individual Healthcare Identifiers and > provide feedback on the proposed legislation. > > The legislation, the Healthcare Identifiers Bill, allows for a > unique 16 > digit number to be created for every Australian and all health care > providers by the middle of this year. > > Individual Healthcare Identifier? or IHI?s, are to be provided to all > individuals, in addition to Medicare numbers, as a further step to > ensure the privacy and security of an e-health system. > > IHI?s are essential in creating a single process to accurately and > consistently identify patients and healthcare providers. > > This legislation is an important part of the Rudd Government?s reform > agenda. Without healthcare identifiers there cannot be an integrated, > consistent, e-health system in Australia. > > The Committee is now seeking written submissions from interested > individuals and organisations. > > For further information on the Committee?s investigation or to find > out > how to make a written submission, please visit > > www.aph.gov.au. > > Submissions should be received by 05 March 2010. > > The Committee will report on 15 March 2010. > > For all media inquiries, please contact the Minister's Office on 02 > 6277 > 7220. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient > only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. > Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use > of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by > persons or > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may > result > in severe penalties. > > If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Security > Advisor of the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital > Economy, 38 Sydney Ave, Forrest ACT 2603, telephone (02) 6271-1376 and > delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -- > Brenda Aynsley, FACS, PCP, HLM, ACCE Associate > Vice President Australian Computer Society (ACS) > Director Community Affairs Board, ACS > Immediate Past Chairman ACS SA Branch www.acs.org.au/sa > -- > Director Oz Business Partners http://www.ozbusinesspartners.com/ > Mobile:+61(0) 412 662 988 || Skype/Yahoo/Twitter: baynsley > Phone:08 7127 0107 : 08 8357 8844 Fax:08 8272 7486 > -- > *Produced by Ubuntu and Mozilla Thunderbird* > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ----------------------------------- Dr Bob Jansen Turtle Lane Studios Pty Ltd PO Box 26, Erskineville NSW 2043, Australia Ph: +61-414 297 448 Skype: bobjtls http://www.turtlelane.com.au In line with the Australian anti-spam legislation, if you wish to receive no further email from me, please send me an email with the subject "No Spam" From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 11:13:52 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:13:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1qsqkl@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 10:50 AM 3/03/2010, Ivan Trundle wrote: >The report was even more puzzling to me since it declares that the >number of cases is getting smaller, so why all the hyperbole? Because it's not just a matter of numbers, I think. If there were only five breaches and that information was anonymously sent to the press, is that worse or less worse? If it were your cancer treatment information, or perhaps that of your child, better or worse situation? [Not wanting to be personal here, but it helps put these sorts of things in perspective] I must say that the actual medical information is not YET going to be linked, just your name, address, phone, medicare number, and date of birth, possibly birth order. In fact, the whole system is so mired in bad planning that it may never see the light of day. But oh yes, we'll still all have our new numbers! And there's another bit in the fine print of the legislation. Much of the specifics will be determined in regulation, NOT in the Act. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From bob.jansen at turtlelane.com.au Wed Mar 3 11:15:38 2010 From: bob.jansen at turtlelane.com.au (Dr Bob Jansen) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:15:38 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: The other thing to remember is that there are in fact no proven cases of online medical records actually making things safer for patients. A double blind test of this would be interesting, if any ethics committee would approve it. In terms of costs, having just implemented an electronic medical record system at a major public hospital, it is clear that costs saved in one area are merely spent on the IT infrastructure and running costs. So I would doubt the cost equation would come down in favour of such systems. bobj On 03/03/2010, at 10:22 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 10:07 AM 3/03/2010, Ivan Trundle wrote: > >> I would hope that any policy formulation was developed for the >> entire community, and with support from the whole community. It's >> unlikely to be so if such a disparaging view is expressed of one >> cohort. > > Of course that cohort is the one that seems to lack social > responsibility awareness until late 20s (hoon drivers), so I'd rather > be a bit more conservative than let them drive this issue. This is a > case where the elders have a broader experience of human nature and > should be given the lead. Less access to and less exposure of one's > information the better in this case. > > I think a simple example of "let's have your girlfriend who works at > Medicare able to look up your STD record" would be enough to convince > even the worst of the 'bullet proof' in that cohort. Or, how about > let's look up the PMs health records. NO, wait, they're special and > get pseudonymous protections. True story. I guess if they had to have > the same risks as the rest of the community, they may think twice > about their policies. When is someone going to pose that problem to > Roxon? I wonder if she has anything to hide besides her address? > > Jan > > > > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia > jwhit at janwhitaker.com > blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ > business: http://www.janwhitaker.com > > Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or > sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. > ~Madeline L'Engle, writer > > _ __________________ _ > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ----------------------------------- Dr Bob Jansen Turtle Lane Studios Pty Ltd PO Box 26, Erskineville NSW 2043, Australia Ph: +61-414 297 448 Skype: bobjtls http://www.turtlelane.com.au In line with the Australian anti-spam legislation, if you wish to receive no further email from me, please send me an email with the subject "No Spam" From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 11:30:12 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:30:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$1qsqkl@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <8heh0f$1qsqkl@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <8872FFC3-0193-4904-BE61-628F5284B8AF@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 11:13 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > In fact, the whole system is so mired in > bad planning that it may never see the light of day. I'm sure that the former head of the AMA would suggest otherwise. However, I see no evidence of 'bad planning', since I'm not party to what they are actually planning to do, other than developing a new system with purported benefits for healthcare users. However, it's interesting to listen to the anecdotal examples given: that people can more-easily access paper records than they can computer records. And that 'authorised healthcare providers' are the only people who can match the person's ID with medical records of any sort. On the one hand, we complain that paper records are archaic and impossible to transfer from one healthcare provider to another, and seek a better system of doing so, yet we complain when they are digitised and made accessible. We can't have it both ways. Yes, data honey pots are attractive to miscreants, and yes, security of any such data repository needs to be tight - but how do we properly reconcile the need to share data whilst maintaining privacy? iT From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 3 11:32:16 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:32:16 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/03, at 10:50 AM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > > On 03/03/2010, at 10:39 AM, Stephen Wilson wrote: > >> Ivan Trundle wrote: >>> Social behaviours are not always thwarted by the imposition of >>> laws.... >>> For anyone to suggest what 'the real issue is' only convinces me >>> that it is not, or that it demands deeper examination. >> >> That's a fair point in the general, but in my defence, I was trying >> to >> stress that what matters most in this particular case is that staff >> were >> breaking the law by peeking at records. Judging by the way Ivan you >> prefaced your response to Juanita with "perhaps" [the Medicare >> breach is >> scary], I thought that your examination of the reasons for >> curiosity was >> deflecting from the fact that privacy laws were broken. > > My concern was the way in which it was described: for the privacy > commissioner to use the words 'potential breaches' is disingenuous. > For the reporter to suggest that it was 'only the beginning' is > laughable. > > That aside, I used 'perhaps' because, unlike Kim's assertion, I > don't view 'potential privacy breaches' as being 'very scary'. I am > usually scared by things which cause me to palpitate and sweat, not > by 'potential' lax implementation of privacy controls. I don't know for me scary isn't just things that are immediately physically dangerous but things that I see may happen in the future. > The report was even more puzzling to me since it declares that the > number of cases is getting smaller, so why all the hyperbole? There's not a lot of information in the report. I don't really like this bit: > "In order to get access to medical information the person has to be > an authorised healthcare provider." > Medicare says it has implemented privacy controls and that the > number of cases of snooping has been getting smaller, It's not really clear if this is the case and how they know. They log every access? They make health care providers log in first to access the information? > however it is not known who or how far the information was allowed > to spread. They can't log that then. They didn't talk to the snoopers and ask them at least? This is all happening now? Our records are online now and accessible by any health professional? Do we get any say over who accesses our information? Do we get any right of approval about who accesses our medical data? Do we even get told someone has accessed the data? -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 11:41:40 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:41:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> Message-ID: On 03/03/2010, at 11:32 AM, Kim Holburn wrote: > I don't really like this bit: >> "In order to get access to medical information the person has to be >> an authorised healthcare provider." Are you concerned about who gets/gives authorisation? iT From marghanita at ramin.com.au Wed Mar 3 11:49:15 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:49:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> Dr Bob Jansen wrote: > The other thing to remember is that there are in fact no proven cases > of online medical records actually making things safer for patients. A > double blind test of this would be interesting, if any ethics > committee would approve it. > Medicare records are not so much about health information but rather accounting. One useful application is for regular check ups...Medicare allows for an eye test every two years. At least once, my Optometrists has rung Medicare, while I was sitting opposite her, to check when I had my last eye test. I certainly couldn't remember whether I had had an eye test elsewhere or when. > In terms of costs, having just implemented an electronic medical > record system at a major public hospital, it is clear that costs saved > in one area are merely spent on the IT infrastructure and running > costs. So I would doubt the cost equation would come down in favour of > such systems. One of the curious things about IT systems and billing, is that they seem to have moved out of part of doing business (ie efficiency) to a special category for which you can charge separately. Telstra even tried to charge you to pay your bill! With regard to unique identifiers.... > Gillard flags national ID scheme for schoolchildren > > Posted Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:44am AEDT > Head shot of Federal Education Minister Julia Gillard speaking on September 28, 2009. > > ID scheme: Federal Education Minister Julia Gillard (Dave Hunt: AAP ) > > The Federal Government plans to assign every schoolchild an individual identity number to track their academic progress. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 12:29:49 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:29:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1qtsm9@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 11:32 AM 3/03/2010, Kim Holburn wrote: > > however it is not known who or how far the information was allowed > > to spread. > >They can't log that then. They didn't talk to the snoopers and ask >them at least? > >This is all happening now? Our records are online now and accessible >by any health professional? Do we get any say over who accesses our >information? Do we get any right of approval about who accesses our >medical data? Do we even get told someone has accessed the data? The Medicare snooping is 'insurance' info, but they could possibly also see what is being paid for. I know there are codes for various things. So one could deduce from what is coded. However, our full records are not online. That is what the goal of the Ehealth effort is about: linking or concatenating disbursed records by using the IHIs to do the linkage. It's not an easy problem to solve. All the rest of the questions are part of that 'bad planning' I mentioned. The IHI bit is just the key to access something that may never happen. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From lealink at viking.org.au Wed Mar 3 12:45:17 2010 From: lealink at viking.org.au (Lea de Groot) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:45:17 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8872FFC3-0193-4904-BE61-628F5284B8AF@itrundle.com> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <8heh0f$1qsqkl@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <8872FFC3-0193-4904-BE61-628F5284B8AF@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <4B8DBF2D.8070702@viking.org.au> On 3/03/10 10:30 AM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > developing a new system with purported benefits for healthcare users. Its interesting, when its raised that the new system is for 'the benefit of healthcare users'. As an IT professional, I can't see any real benefits for 'healthcare users' (I'm lazy - I'm going to shorten that to 'patients' for the rest of this email.) Patients want the doctor to make them well when they are sick. They don't care how the doctor keeps their records. The proposed system is (possibly) for the benefit of health professionals, in reducing their workload, and (definitely) for the benefit of the people who fund them. Now, does this reduce the workload of the medical professionals? The American implementations I have heard of - from people forced to upgrade their workplaces to meet new standards - say that isn't the case. The changeover is horrendous and the benefits minimal. So, why are we doing this again? To help patients? I'm not buying it. A mistaken belief that computerising systems automatically makes things Better is just that - mistaken. There is no magic in IT. So, we come down to a benefit to the people who fund health care. I don't see that this benefit is worth the huge cost, myself. Lea -- Lea de Groot Brisbane, .au From marghanita at ramin.com.au Wed Mar 3 12:49:06 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:49:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] [Fwd: E-HEALTH Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs] In-Reply-To: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> References: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> Message-ID: <4B8DC012.60805@ramin.com.au> This report makes interesting background reading about who the Stakeholders are: Methodology for evaluating the socio-economic impact of interoperable EHR and ePrescribing systems provides a useful overview of several investment frameworks as well as describing the context for Electronic Health Records. Marghanita Brenda Aynsley wrote: > I thought the e-health identifier was to be the medicare number? Is > this another attempt at introducing an Australia Card? > > cheers > brenda > > FURTHER PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS ON E-HEALTH > > The Committee is now seeking written submissions from interested > individuals and organisations. > > For further information on the Committee???s investigation or to find out > how to make a written submission, please visit > www.aph.gov.au. > > Submissions should be received by 05 March 2010. > > The Committee will report on 15 March 2010. > -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 12:49:06 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:49:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8872FFC3-0193-4904-BE61-628F5284B8AF@itrundle.com> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <8heh0f$1qsqkl@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <8872FFC3-0193-4904-BE61-628F5284B8AF@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1qu1da@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 11:30 AM 3/03/2010, Ivan Trundle you wrote: >On the one hand, we complain that paper records are archaic and >impossible to transfer from one healthcare provider to another, and >seek a better system of doing so, yet we complain when they are >digitised and made accessible. We can't have it both ways. Who's complaining? There may be a subset of society who would benefit [some elderly, some with chronic care needs who cross among lots of providers, some with special needs], but not the whole bloomin' population! This is the same problem we faced with the Access Card -- to make it affordable, it had to be national to everybody. Same with this. So we all have to be included to make the numbers add up, whether we want it or not. I attended an early panel by Nehta a few years ago [this has been dragging out a LONG time, and many staff have left in disgust]. At that meeting my jaw hit the floor when we were told it was compulsory and you got a number whether you wanted one or not: no argument. Of course, I was also told at the same meeting by their technology 'manager' [can't recall his real title] that the health record information would be centrally held. We nearly came to blows on that one. He had made up his mind and that's the way it was going to be. I believe the jury may be out again on that little concept. But we do not know. Nehta has managed to anger so many consumer advocates that many of us don't turn up any more. Consultation was a farce. [sorry if anyone reading this doesn't like it, but I'm just being brutally honest] >Yes, data honey pots are attractive to miscreants, and yes, security >of any such data repository needs to be tight - but how do we >properly reconcile the need to share data whilst maintaining privacy? Data is being shared now. It may not be electronically shared, but it is being shared among THOSE WHO NEED IT. There is also this assumption that the data is relatively static. It is NOT. We get sicker and we get better. What was in the record last month may no longer be relevant. I had a bit removed that solved a problem in December. The symptoms are gone. I am well. No drama. Will I forget that set of symptoms and the fix for it? Unlikely. Will my specialist? Nope. Is there an accessible record? Of course there is. Can it be shared? Yes. Who sees it? Those who were involved in the case, not any and every health provider on the proposed linked system. The arguments for this 'system' aren't proven. The risk analysis hasn't been done because there is no system to analyse. If that work has been done, where is it? Sorry, I'll go back in my box for awhile. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 13:05:06 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:05:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <4B8DBF2D.8070702@viking.org.au> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <8heh0f$1qsqkl@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <8872FFC3-0193-4904-BE61-628F5284B8AF@itrundle.com> <4B8DBF2D.8070702@viking.org.au> Message-ID: <1AF4C7A9-5881-4DD4-ADBF-C3EB4B68C77E@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 12:45 PM, Lea de Groot wrote: > They don't care how the doctor keeps their records. Patients jolly well should! It's vitally important for their health into the future, and having seen first-hand how the information flow can fail in the current paper-based system, I'm for any improvement. Any relevant information about previous health history and medical intervention is useful to those providing current or future health care, sometimes even the most trivial information can assist (or reduce the guesswork). Cheers iT From marghanita at ramin.com.au Wed Mar 3 13:09:18 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:09:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] [Fwd: E-HEALTH Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs] In-Reply-To: <4B8DC012.60805@ramin.com.au> References: <4B8D9FA8.1090207@iss.net.au> <4B8DC012.60805@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B8DC4CE.4060404@ramin.com.au> Pity the media release couldn't have been more specific about the URL: There seem to be three Inquiries in the area: > Healthcare Identifiers Bill 2010 and Healthcare Identifiers (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2010 > Information about the Inquiry > > On 24 February 2010 the Senate referred the Healthcare Identifiers Bill 2010; for inquiry and report. > Health Insurance Amendment (Pathology Requests) Bill 2010 > Information about the Inquiry > > On 24 February 2010 the Senate referred the Health Insurance Amendment (Pathology Requests) Bill 2010 for inquiry and report. > Health Practitioner Regulation (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2010 > Information about the Inquiry > > On 25 February 2010 the Senate referred the Health Practitioner Regulation (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2010 for inquiry and report. Marghanita da Cruz wrote: > This report makes interesting background reading about who > the Stakeholders are: > > Methodology for evaluating the > socio-economic impact of interoperable > EHR and ePrescribing systems provides a > useful overview of several investment > frameworks as well as describing the > context for Electronic Health Records. > > > Marghanita > Brenda Aynsley wrote: >> I thought the e-health identifier was to be the medicare number? Is >> this another attempt at introducing an Australia Card? >> >> cheers >> brenda >> > >> FURTHER PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS ON E-HEALTH >> > >> The Committee is now seeking written submissions from interested >> individuals and organisations. >> >> For further information on the Committee???s investigation or to find out >> how to make a written submission, please visit >> www.aph.gov.au. >> >> Submissions should be received by 05 March 2010. >> >> The Committee will report on 15 March 2010. >> > > -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 3 13:21:16 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:21:16 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> Message-ID: <053585B4-8707-4B4C-908E-301D3DD152AE@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/03, at 11:41 AM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > > On 03/03/2010, at 11:32 AM, Kim Holburn wrote: > >> I don't really like this bit: >>> "In order to get access to medical information the person has to be >>> an authorised healthcare provider." > > Are you concerned about who gets/gives authorisation? Yes. Absolutely. These people over there are looking after my personal records. Why shouldn't I be concerned. It's not like they are sitting behind a secretary in a medical practise with only a few people able to access them. If they're online then technically anyone in the world can access them. It's odd in Australia, I just had some tests done and they won't send the results to me, even though I'm paying for it. Has to go to my doctor - actually it has to go to the company practise my doctor works in. What's wrong with people looking after their own records? Kim -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 13:32:56 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:32:56 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <053585B4-8707-4B4C-908E-301D3DD152AE@holburn.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> <053585B4-8707-4B4C-908E-301D3DD152AE@holburn.net> Message-ID: <07CE6F1D-57CC-449D-873E-E8738B9E37C4@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 1:21 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: > What's wrong with people looking after their own records? Would be fine if we carried them with us at all times (maybe on the smart card stapled to our body, or perhaps an under-skin implant - though you wouldn't want to enter a hospital without the body part that contained the chip or card). I'd prefer to see medical information in a place where it can be accessed by those who need to see it, with my direct or implied consent. If I get wheeled into a medical facility in some outpost in an uncommunicative state, I'd hope that they had all relevant history before taking any action. Cheers iT From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 3 13:52:19 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:52:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <07CE6F1D-57CC-449D-873E-E8738B9E37C4@itrundle.com> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> <053585B4-8707-4B4C-908E-301D3DD152AE@holburn.net> <07CE6F1D-57CC-449D-873E-E8738B9E37C4@itrundle.com> Message-ID: On 2010/Mar/03, at 1:32 PM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 1:21 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: > >> What's wrong with people looking after their own records? > > > Would be fine if we carried them with us at all times (maybe on the > smart card stapled to our body, or perhaps an under-skin implant - > though you wouldn't want to enter a hospital without the body part > that contained the chip or card). > > I'd prefer to see medical information in a place where it can be > accessed by those who need to see it, with my direct or implied > consent. > > If I get wheeled into a medical facility in some outpost in an > uncommunicative state, I'd hope that they had all relevant history > before taking any action. So you are going to have your medicare/e-health ID number tattooed on your wrist? In general this argument I have heard before, I remember talking this over with Tony Hill several years ago. But what it means is that any ambulance driver can access your records - if they have your ID. Or so can any health professional if they can get your ID. Now they won't even need your permission nor might you ever know. Then we were discussing if next of kin would be allowed to give that permission with some special key number. Now it seems we're talking about no technical permission needed at all. It does seem like a good idea - that your records might be available in an emergency but how useful would it be really? How many real emergency uses would there be compared to accesses unauthorised by the patient? Kim -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From cas at taz.net.au Wed Mar 3 14:34:24 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:34:24 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> Message-ID: <20100303033424.GP24121@taz.net.au> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 08:46:18AM +1100, Kim Holburn wrote: > This is rather scary. yep, it is. > > Extra security > > Dr Mukesh Haikerwal, the former head of the Australian Medical > > Association and the current head of the clinical unit at the > > National E-Health Transition Authority, says the new system will > > provide extra security for patients. > > > > "The way in which the system will be rolled out is far more secure > > with these new arrangements than they are with a paper record," he > > said. bullshit. to illegally access current paper records, someone has to actually break in (i.e. burglary) to the office where they are kept and read, steal, or copy them. this sets an extremely high barrier to entry for snoopers, not many healthcare workers are willing to jeopardise their career by engaging in overt criminal offences like that. with electronic records, they will be accessible over a network. probably the internet (if not initially, then inevitably - all networks eventually become part of, or connected to, the internet). this enables casual snooping and it "decriminalises" the activity in the mind of the user because it's just clicking on some buttons on a screen. worse, it enables mass, automated snooping. > > "With a paper record today you can potentially wander into a medical > > record department, anybody can wander in and have a look at > > somebody's notes without anybody knowing what's going on. right. and hospitals and clinics and surgeries simply won't notice that someone has "wandered in" and is reading patient records. or that doctor X is reading the records of people who aren't their patients. > > "In order to get access to medical information the person has to be > > an authorised healthcare provider." well, that's extremely comforting. how many thousands of "authorised healthcare providers" are there in australia? and how many of them would be willing to take cash from insurance companies, employers, (ex-)spouses/partners, relatives, friends, private detectives, police, spooks, tabloid journalists, or anyone else in exchange for snooping? i don't mind if my own doctors read my records (although i can imagine situations where i wouldn't want all of my doctors to have access to ALL of my records). but i sure as hell don't want ANY doctor or "authorised healthcare provider" in the country having access to all of my records. even if that means i might die in an ambulance because they weren't allowed access to my records (IMO that is an acceptable extremely low risk compared to the extremely high risk of privacy invasion) and i especially don't want someone accessing my records because they managed to guess, hack, steal, or social-engineer some health-worker's login and password. or because some dickhead doctor wrote their login details on a postit note, or shared their login with everyone in the office - the vast majority of computer users are incredibly bad at even understanding the concept of password security, let alone thinking it's important enough to take precautions over. training and education DO NOT HELP with this, most users are just not interested and think it's just pedantic paranoia for obsessive nerds if the issue is brought up (because they certainly won't think about it on their own initiative). what is the exact definition of an "authorised healthcare provider" - i.e. who gets to be one? what sort of security checks or vetting are performed when someone applies to be an "authorised healthcare provider"? for example, can nutcase anti-abortionist doctors or nurses access someone's pregnancy records. what kind of audit trail is kept of each access? and can citizens request (or preferably, DEMAND) a copy of the audit trail for their own records at any time? what kind of alerts are there for excessive or suspicious searches? is there any provision for automatic notification of citizens whenever their medical records are accessed? what control do citizens have over exactly which "authorised health care" providers are allowed to access their health records? and how fine-grained is that control (if any exists)...i.e. is it just all or nothing? can a person specify that "doctor X is only allowed to access records that they generated or test results that they personally ordered" or "my records are only accesible if I'm physically present to input my secret key". at the moment, it seems like the entire focus is on the convenience of the medical bureacracy with little or no attention being paid to individual's privacy rights. craig -- craig sanders From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 14:40:26 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 03:40:26 GMT Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online Message-ID: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> > If I get wheeled into a medical facility in some outpost in an > uncommunicative state, I'd hope that they had all relevant history > before taking any action. Cheers iT Agreed. In this small country-town-outpost, we have a medical practice that is sometimes staffed by a doctor (it varies a lot) and when it is it's fairly often by some unknown young newbie locum. And at the larger town practices (all at least an hour or so away) the waiting list is several months. Thus, as a result, residents here tend to have a catch-doctor-as-catch-can medial consultation history. If these newbie doctors, (to us, and fairly often, newbie to medicine doctors) which we are sometimes lucky to be able to consult, (country medical-staffing is quickly getting worse) all have medical histories readily available, i think the health of country folk especially will surely benefit. At least, it might help newbie docs to avoid mistakes. It's fine for city-centric folk who have the luxury of permanence and choice in terms of doctors, and health care, but we country folk with very patchy (literally) medical care, really need some form of record keeping of our medical records which are available literally anywhere. Cheers, Stephen From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 3 14:47:08 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:47:08 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <07CE6F1D-57CC-449D-873E-E8738B9E37C4@itrundle.com> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> <053585B4-8707-4B4C-908E-301D3DD152AE@holburn.net> <07CE6F1D-57CC-449D-873E-E8738B9E37C4@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <0EA67476-4222-497A-99E3-67FA193E3362@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/03, at 1:32 PM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 1:21 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: > >> What's wrong with people looking after their own records? > > Would be fine if we carried them with us at all times (maybe on the > smart card stapled to our body, or perhaps an under-skin implant - > though you wouldn't want to enter a hospital without the body part > that contained the chip or card). > > I'd prefer to see medical information in a place where it can be > accessed by those who need to see it, with my direct or implied > consent. > > If I get wheeled into a medical facility in some outpost in an > uncommunicative state, I'd hope that they had all relevant history > before taking any action. Let me put this another way. If you have all your medical records online what's to stop your insurance company or a potential employer or the police accessing your medical records. Knowing something about computers I'd also ask what if they got the wrong records. One thing about a technical means of controlling access is that it also makes it more likely they have the right records. An open slather system makes it much more likely that mistakes are made. Kim -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From cas at taz.net.au Wed Mar 3 14:50:42 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:50:42 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 11:49:15AM +1100, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: > Medicare records are not so much about health information > but rather accounting. > > One useful application is for regular check ups...Medicare > allows for an eye test every two years. At least once, my > Optometrists has rung Medicare, while I was sitting opposite > her, to check when I had my last eye test. I certainly > couldn't remember whether I had had an eye test elsewhere or > when. it's worse than that. last time i went to an optometrist it was just slightly less than two years since my previous eye test. that optometrist was not allowed to test my eyes because, according to medicare rules, my previous optometrist "owned" me until the two years were up. i could go back to the old optometrist (who would then "own" me for another two years) or i could wait until my "emancipation" date. i had to come back a week or so later. the fact that my glasses were broken and held together with sticky-tape didn't provide an exception to this rule. and it's such a stupid penny-pinching bean-counter's rule. it's not as if there's a huge financial burden from people having unneccesary and overly frequent eye tests. mostly people have their eyes tested when they need new glasses - either because they're broken or scratched up, or because they're getting fuzzy/poor vision or eyestrain-related headaches. also, some people's eyesight gets worse at much shorter intervals than every two years - not at all uncommon for people who don't need glasses until their mid-teens...it gets progressively worse for the next 5-10 years, then stabilises. craig -- craig sanders From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 15:15:34 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:15:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> Message-ID: On 03/03/2010, at 2:50 PM, Craig Sanders wrote: > that optometrist was not allowed to test my eyes because, according to > medicare rules, my previous optometrist "owned" me until the two years > were up. i could go back to the old optometrist (who would then "own" me > for another two years) or i could wait until my "emancipation" date. In Australia, any optometrist can test your eyes at any time - either free, or for a fee, which is entirely at the optometrist's discretion (they generally won't charge you if they can get you to buy some lenses and frames). Here's the applicable wording from the Medicare Benefits Schedule: "Where a patient receives a comprehensive initial consultation within 24 months of a previous comprehensive consultation provided by another optometrist an additional fee may be charged provided that the service is not direct-billed. The actual additional amount charged is a matter between the optometrist and the patient but it must not exceed an amount equal to the difference between the Schedule fees for Item 10900 and Item 10907." http://www9.health.gov.au/mbs/fullDisplay.cfm?type=item&qt=ItemID&q=10900 iT From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 15:18:01 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:18:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <0EA67476-4222-497A-99E3-67FA193E3362@holburn.net> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> <053585B4-8707-4B4C-908E-301D3DD152AE@holburn.net> <07CE6F1D-57CC-449D-873E-E8738B9E37C4@itrundle.com> <0EA67476-4222-497A-99E3-67FA193E3362@holburn.net> Message-ID: On 03/03/2010, at 2:47 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: > If you have all your medical records > online what's to stop your insurance company or a potential employer > or the police accessing your medical records. Trust. And a sensible system of security, legislation and penalties. As with with paper records. I am fully aware of the risks of keeping information in a database, and the potential to screw things up royally, but the same applies with paper records, which were perfectly adequate in a time when people lived in the same place for years at a time and had the same doctor until their death, and when the likelihood of your attending an out-of-area hospital with a difficult problem were much more remote, and with records held by a doctor that you cannot remember. iT From cas at taz.net.au Wed Mar 3 15:57:44 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:57:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <20100303045744.GS24121@taz.net.au> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 03:15:34PM +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 2:50 PM, Craig Sanders wrote: > > > that optometrist was not allowed to test my eyes because, according to > > medicare rules, my previous optometrist "owned" me until the two years > > were up. i could go back to the old optometrist (who would then "own" me > > for another two years) or i could wait until my "emancipation" date. > > In Australia, any optometrist can test your eyes at any time - either > free, or for a fee, which is entirely at the optometrist's discretion > (they generally won't charge you if they can get you to buy some > lenses and frames). why, then, was my new optometrist unable to bulk bill my eye test? given that there was several hundred dollars in frames and lenses in it for him, i think it's unlikely that he'd just make up something that would cost him some business. it wasn't that he wanted to charge me extra (or charge me at all). he said he wasn't allowed to bulk bill the test at all. a week or so later, there was no problem. my medicare-indenture had expired. craig -- craig sanders From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 16:12:26 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:12:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <20100303045744.GS24121@taz.net.au> References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> <20100303045744.GS24121@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <77051740-F720-4E2C-84D1-D9A7E8854F63@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 3:57 PM, Craig Sanders wrote: >> In Australia, any optometrist can test your eyes at any time - either >> free, or for a fee, which is entirely at the optometrist's discretion >> (they generally won't charge you if they can get you to buy some >> lenses and frames). > > why, then, was my new optometrist unable to bulk bill my eye test? Simple. Because Medicare do not allow it. > given that there was several hundred dollars in frames and lenses in it > for him, i think it's unlikely that he'd just make up something that > would cost him some business. Some eye shops engage consultant optometrists and have less flexible billing arrangements (they have to pay for the service, rather than absorb it into their overall costs), so I can understand a level of reluctance if the overall profit margin was reduced to a negative, even though the test itself takes precious little time. > it wasn't that he wanted to charge me extra (or charge me at all). he > said he wasn't allowed to bulk bill the test at all. a week or so later, > there was no problem. my medicare-indenture had expired. There's your answer: he would rather recover money from taxpayers than accept you as an immediate customer. He was probably convinced that you would wait until the bulk-bill test could be carried out. By the sounds of it, the wait was worthwhile for him. iT From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 3 16:26:19 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:26:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/03, at 2:40 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: >> If I get wheeled into a medical facility in some outpost in an >> uncommunicative state, I'd hope that they had all relevant history >> before taking any action. Cheers iT > > > Agreed. In this small country-town-outpost, we have a medical practice > that is sometimes staffed by a doctor (it varies a lot) and when it is > it's fairly often by some unknown young newbie locum. > > And at the larger town practices (all at least an hour or so away) the > waiting list is several months. Thus, as a result, residents here tend > to have a catch-doctor-as-catch-can medial consultation history. > > If these newbie doctors, (to us, and fairly often, newbie to medicine > doctors) which we are sometimes lucky to be able to consult, (country > medical-staffing is quickly getting worse) all have medical histories > readily available, i think the health of country folk especially will > surely benefit. At least, it might help newbie docs to avoid mistakes. > > It's fine for city-centric folk who have the luxury of permanence and > choice in terms of doctors, and health care, but we country folk with > very patchy (literally) medical care, really need some form of record > keeping of our medical records which are available literally anywhere. Perhaps Canberra would be a small country town by your definition, I have heard it described thus. The waiting lists for even a basic GP consultation can be more than a week, the fact that at least one practise I went to recently told me that their books were closed even though my small daughter is a patient on their books. I can get an appointment with a specialist in Sydney in less than a week but it's 6 months or more in Canberra. Several times I have found a good doctor here, then they move to another practise and their contract states that no-one's allowed to tell me where they've gone and the practise owns/retains my records so even if I did manage to track them to their new practise they wouldn't have my records. grrrr. Don't get me started ;-) I am sure someone else will tell me Canberra has a fine, functioning medical system. Maybe I'm on the wrong side of town or something. Still not good to have my records online unless I can control who gets access. As someone who occasionally lives in other countries this is all moot. This is never going to be more than Australia wide. If you find yourself in emergency in Moscow or Copenhagen or worse the USA it's not going to help. Hmmm... actually it might be really useful if I could access my own records online but I bet it wouldn't be allowed. Kim -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From swilson at lockstep.com.au Wed Mar 3 16:45:02 2010 From: swilson at lockstep.com.au (Stephen Wilson) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:45:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <4B8DA1C4.2010205@lockstep.com.au> <71ACC768-C844-4C87-9215-1F78FB7A0BA8@itrundle.com> <18F14621-3A3A-4AC3-B6DA-D9A3BFEB3385@holburn.net> <053585B4-8707-4B4C-908E-301D3DD152AE@holburn.net> <07CE6F1D-57CC-449D-873E-E8738B9E37C4@itrundle.com> <0EA67476-4222-497A-99E3-67FA193E3362@holburn.net> Message-ID: <4B8DF75E.4020505@lockstep.com.au> Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 2:47 PM, Kim Holburn wrote > > If you have all your medical records online what's to stop your > > insurance company or a potential employer or the police accessing > > your medical records. > > Trust. And a sensible system of security, legislation and penalties. > As with with paper records. There's an old saying, "It's good to trust, but it's better not to". So I would delete trust from your list of protections, and retain (in order) security, legislation and penalties. This is how we traditionally secure banks and houses, and also how we ensure safety of card, planes, electricity etc. We don't muck around, we usually mandate certain technologies or at least technical standards. A stark curiosity in e-security and e-health is that actual preventative measures are almost totally absent in the regulatory menu. Under the guise of "technology neutrality" we have Internet banking regimes and soon Internet health information regimes where there is little real security, and certainly no mandated security. Convenience trumps security. Nominating actual security measures is uncool, for it's deemed to be "backing a winner". Yet the Health Identifiers Act is actually drafted around a very specific design: a centralised directory from which authorised providers will look up IHIs for patients. And therein lies the deep privacy problem in the proposed IHI design and legislation. Cheers, Stephen Wilson Managing Director Lockstep Group Phone +61 (0)414 488 851 www.lockstep.com.au Lockstep Consulting provides independent specialist advice and analysis on digital identity and privacy. Lockstep Technologies develops unique new smart ID solutions that enhance privacy and prevent identity theft. From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 17:04:34 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:04:34 GMT Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online Message-ID: <20100303060434.23CF062B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Kim writes, > Still not good to have my (medical) records online unless I can > control who gets access. Agreed, Kim. No argument at all here. Difficult though .. > Hmmm... actually it might be really useful if I could access my own > records online .. but I bet it wouldn't be allowed. Again agreed, on both points. But, in terms of complete accuracy, eg even simply current address, phone, next-of-kin, etc, it does appear reasonable to allow individual access. Maybe biometric log-ins might be indicated despite past-Linked security issues around such systems? Cheers, Stephen From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 17:36:37 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:36:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1r13o4@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 04:26 PM 3/03/2010, Kim Holburn wrote: >Hmmm... actually it might be really useful if I could access my own >records online but I bet it wouldn't be allowed. Actually, that's in the mix possibly. MS is pushing for it. PHR - Personal Health Record. Doesn't mean it will be complete though. And even if you can access them, it doesn't mean that the new treating doc is going to believe them. The lab may have goofed, they may be out of date, and you may be ill or injured with something unrelated anyway that the prior results could mask or mislead the doc to believe. Liability such as it is means that doctors need to make their own determinations. If there is a consistent allergy or heart condition, better off carrying some Alert bracelet which people are used to looking for in emergency rooms. Like I said, the planning is in flux, all over the shop. As my colleague said, The number is a possible bridge to nowhere. You should read what some of the health informatics producers/suppliers are saying. They are reporting that they aren't being consulted either. So they aren't sure what the government expects them to build by July 1! Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 17:50:02 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 17:50:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$1r13o4@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> <8heh0f$1r13o4@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <9E88F437-1855-497B-9A45-1870480135A7@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 5:36 PM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > If there is a consistent allergy or heart condition, better off > carrying some Alert bracelet which people are used to looking for in > emergency rooms. ...which, incidentally, keep your personal details on their own computer database, and are authorised to give this information to health and emergency workers. iT From marghanita at ramin.com.au Wed Mar 3 18:00:30 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:00:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <9E88F437-1855-497B-9A45-1870480135A7@itrundle.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> <8heh0f$1r13o4@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <9E88F437-1855-497B-9A45-1870480135A7@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <4B8E090E.2010509@ramin.com.au> Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 5:36 PM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > >> If there is a consistent allergy or heart condition, better off >> carrying some Alert bracelet which people are used to looking for in >> emergency rooms. > > ...which, incidentally, keep your personal details on their own computer database, and are authorised to give this information to health and emergency workers. > I remember having a discussion once with someone who only wanted her own blood, if she ever needed a blood transfusion. As a bit of a traveller I could not comprehend this perspective, but then she like many others may have never travelled or ventured to places where she wasn't known. In the event you can't speak for yourself, it is interesting what you would want to communicate most. Your next of kin may have an interest. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 3 18:02:07 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:02:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <80FDCA33-849A-4525-B141-9CE6E7245CC0@holburn.net> <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1r1bqv@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 10:07 AM 3/03/2010, Ivan Trundle wrote: >I am not scared by these things, but I am concerned. For anyone to >suggest what 'the real issue is' only convinces me that it is not, >or that it demands deeper examination. Here's one in the UK: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/26/nhs_patient_record_privacy_concerns/ snippet, quite similar to my post earlier: Anderson notes that a similar system was abused when it was introduced in Scotland by a rogue medic who snooped into the medical records of health records of prime minister Gordon Brown and SNP leader Alex Salmond. The doctor concerned was spared prosecution for hacking because of his own medical problems. At least the UK system is opt-out! Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From dassa at dhs.org Wed Mar 3 18:41:24 2010 From: dassa at dhs.org (Darryl (Dassa) Lynch) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 18:41:24 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au wrote: ||| If I get wheeled into a medical facility in some outpost in an ||| uncommunicative state, I'd hope that they had all relevant history ||| before taking any action. Cheers iT || || || Agreed. In this small country-town-outpost, we have a || medical practice that is sometimes staffed by a doctor (it || varies a lot) and when it is it's fairly often by some || unknown young newbie locum. || || And at the larger town practices (all at least an hour or so || away) the waiting list is several months. Thus, as a result, || residents here tend to have a catch-doctor-as-catch-can || medial consultation history. || || If these newbie doctors, (to us, and fairly often, newbie to medicine || doctors) which we are sometimes lucky to be able to consult, || (country medical-staffing is quickly getting worse) all have || medical histories readily available, i think the health of || country folk especially will surely benefit. At least, it || might help newbie docs to avoid mistakes. || || It's fine for city-centric folk who have the luxury of || permanence and choice in terms of doctors, and health care, || but we country folk with very patchy (literally) medical || care, really need some form of record keeping of our medical || records which are available literally anywhere. I'm always confused about how our medical records belong to the service providers and not ourselves. My personal choice would be for each individual to be responsible for their own medical records and they can provide them to what ever service provider they happen to be seeing at the time. Isn't it just lazy to expect the service providers to look after our records for us, shouldn't we be keeping our own records? A better investment to me would be technology that would make it easier for individuals to keep all their records in a handy portable form they can carry with them as required. Or at the very least, the individual to control the key that would make a central repository of the data available to the service provider of their choice. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 19:17:14 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 19:17:14 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> Message-ID: <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 6:41 PM, Darryl (Dassa) Lynch wrote: > Isn't it just lazy to expect the service providers to look after our records > for us, shouldn't we be keeping our own records? Agreed, except for when someone is transported to a medical facility without due preparation. Or even with. It's still essential for informed communication based on a whole host of data in very mixed forms to take place between a range of medical professionals - before, during and after a medical event - between people whom will most likely not sit under the same roof and not be able share a single record easily. If people think that a little satchel of information is all that is needed, tell 'em that they're dreamin'... (I'm beginning to wonder how many Linkers are being entirely hypothetical here, or if they are all far too healthy to venture near a medical facility of any kind) iT -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From bob.jansen at turtlelane.com.au Wed Mar 3 22:04:50 2010 From: bob.jansen at turtlelane.com.au (Dr Bob Jansen) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:04:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> We keep reading the scenario of an emergency admittance to a care institution and the requirement for our medical records. I wonder though that proportion of the actual record the clinician or care giver would need. Do they really need all my blood pressure readings over the past 20 years, notes of all visits to my GP, etc, or just a summary indicating what medications I am on, basic vital signs and what else? Maybe this represents a compromise over where the stuff gets stored. A small proportion of the really necessary stuff on central, government run, servers and the rest with me so I can protect my security. That way I control who gets access to the detail whilst still having the necessary stuff available when needed. bobj On 03/03/2010, at 7:17 PM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > > On 03/03/2010, at 6:41 PM, Darryl (Dassa) Lynch wrote: > >> Isn't it just lazy to expect the service providers to look after >> our records >> for us, shouldn't we be keeping our own records? > > Agreed, except for when someone is transported to a medical facility > without due preparation. Or even with. > > It's still essential for informed communication based on a whole > host of data in very mixed forms to take place between a range of > medical professionals - before, during and after a medical event - > between people whom will most likely not sit under the same roof and > not be able share a single record easily. > > If people think that a little satchel of information is all that is > needed, tell 'em that they're dreamin'... > > (I'm beginning to wonder how many Linkers are being entirely > hypothetical here, or if they are all far too healthy to venture > near a medical facility of any kind) > > iT > > -- > Ivan Trundle > http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com > ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ----------------------------------- Dr Bob Jansen Turtle Lane Studios Pty Ltd PO Box 26, Erskineville NSW 2043, Australia Ph: +61-414 297 448 Skype: bobjtls http://www.turtlelane.com.au In line with the Australian anti-spam legislation, if you wish to receive no further email from me, please send me an email with the subject "No Spam" ----------------------------------- Dr Bob Jansen Turtle Lane Studios Pty Ltd PO Box 26, Erskineville NSW 2043, Australia Ph: +61-414 297 448 Skype: bobjtls http://www.turtlelane.com.au In line with the Australian anti-spam legislation, if you wish to receive no further email from me, please send me an email with the subject "No Spam" From dassa at dhs.org Wed Mar 3 22:26:32 2010 From: dassa at dhs.org (Darryl (Dassa) Lynch) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:26:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au><264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org><5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> Message-ID: link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au wrote: || We keep reading the scenario of an emergency admittance to a || care institution and the requirement for our medical || records. I wonder though that proportion of the actual || record the clinician or care giver would need. Do they || really need all my blood pressure readings over the past 20 || years, notes of all visits to my GP, etc, or just a summary || indicating what medications I am on, basic vital signs and what else? || || Maybe this represents a compromise over where the stuff gets || stored. A small proportion of the really necessary stuff on || central, government run, servers and the rest with me so I || can protect my security. That way I control who gets access || to the detail whilst still having the necessary stuff || available when needed. The few times I've been in an emergency situation, past medical history was not needed or used. They were concerned about alergies and perhaps past instances in at least one case but either I or someone close to me provided the information required. For the most part, the emergencies were unrelated to any past history anyway. After the treatment had progressed past the emergency point, history became more important, mostly after 24 hours or so. To my mind, the requirement to have a full history available immediately upon visiting a medical centre of any type is hype only and an attempt to confuse the issue. There may be a small number of cases where it would be of benefit but until some statistics and research shows it is of greater benefit than alternatives I'm not convinced. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 22:27:13 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:27:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> Message-ID: <8A11A82F-FD37-4CD6-89F1-F04DF9041B55@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 10:04 PM, Dr Bob Jansen wrote: > Do they really need all my blood pressure readings > over the past 20 years, notes of all visits to my GP, etc, Depending on the circumstances, yes. It might not be 20 years of history, but any kind of history can be helpful when determining a course of action. It's not a simple matter of saying that one type of data is not useful, but rather what data can be used to make an informed diagnosis, and what prognosis can be made from this data and possible actions. From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 3 22:32:29 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:32:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au><264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org><5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> Message-ID: <462D0F68-4D82-46D2-B777-58655CDF56EB@itrundle.com> On 03/03/2010, at 10:26 PM, Darryl (Dassa) Lynch wrote: > The few times I've been in an emergency situation, past medical history was > not needed or used. Lucky for you. That is not always the case, and depends entirely on the circumstances and the individual. Ultimately, if we adopted the UK system of opting into a centralised health record system, I'd be first in the line to have my records placed where medical staff can find it, though I appreciate that some Linkers have reservations. It would be good if it were a personal choice. iT From dassa at dhs.org Wed Mar 3 22:52:19 2010 From: dassa at dhs.org (Darryl (Dassa) Lynch) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 22:52:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <462D0F68-4D82-46D2-B777-58655CDF56EB@itrundle.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au><264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org><5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com><0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> <462D0F68-4D82-46D2-B777-58655CDF56EB@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <9BEE00485C2F4C9C988B6A3D0B4A73F1@dassa.dhs.org> link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au wrote: || On 03/03/2010, at 10:26 PM, Darryl (Dassa) Lynch wrote: || ||| The few times I've been in an emergency situation, past medical ||| history was not needed or used. || || Lucky for you. That is not always the case, and depends || entirely on the circumstances and the individual. Agree, if I was an individual who would benefit from having my records freely available I'd make sure it happened. I doubt if it is the case for the majority, I'd be pleased if there is some data around this we could all look at and evaluate. || Ultimately, if we adopted the UK system of opting into a || centralised health record system, I'd be first in the line || to have my records placed where medical staff can find it, || though I appreciate that some Linkers have reservations. || || It would be good if it were a personal choice. Personally, that is the biggest problem I have with a lot of these issues and similar, the lack of choice and control. Someone else makes the decisions, claiming it is for the greater good but more often than not, it proves to be a failure in the stated aims. With what little self responsibility and control we have eaten away and everyone reduced down to the lowest common denominator. It should be up to the individual if they wish to have the records available or not, it is their risk to manage. If I thought the risk was worth the effort and benefits, I would make sure I had my records available with me at all times. I don't. My decision. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch PS... I have taken some steps to reduce risk in that I've notified certain people of parts of my medical history/condition that may cause an issue in a medical emergency. Only the parts I was comfortable with disclosing and which I deemed appropriate. From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 4 06:52:40 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 06:52:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8A11A82F-FD37-4CD6-89F1-F04DF9041B55@itrundle.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> <8A11A82F-FD37-4CD6-89F1-F04DF9041B55@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <2C0E8C67-FFE7-43F1-B7BE-7A87977259BD@stilgherrian.com> Is anyone involved in this discussion about what medical records are or are not needed in emergencies a doctor, nurse, paramedic or hospital administrator? "Evidence" is not the plural of "anecdote". Would you like to see my scar? Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Thu Mar 4 07:29:40 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:29:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media Message-ID: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> from: Fwd: Publishers Lunch [this is fascinating. But 'streaming' sorta means a net connection of some sort... and there's that 'flash' problem...] >Penguin's Makinson Demonstrates iPad Adaptations >Yesterday Penguin Group ceo John Makinson presented more of the >company's vision of how to present books on the iPad platform at a >conference in London. Their vision is that they "will be embedding >streaming audio, video and gaming into everything that we do." Which >means they are forsaking epub, which "is designed for narrative text >but not this cool stuff that we're talking about now" and "for the >time being at least we'll be creating a lot of our content as applications." > >Makinson freely admitted that "we don't understand at the moment >what the consumer is prepared to pay for. We don't know whether the >inclusion of a video introduction by an author will be of value to >the consumer, and it may not be the same answer every time." He >added, "we'll only find answers to these questions by trial and >error." The point is, "we'll have to be innovative and take some >risks. We'll have to, above all, listen to our readers to understand >what they want, and what they'll pay for." > >Makinson show a demo video of some of the projects they are working >on as well. Paid Content UK declared "many of Penguin's iPad books >seem hardly to resemble 'books' at all, but rather very interactive >learning experiences." Indeed, while it's a highly subjective >judgment based on short clips, I found most of the samples >reminiscent of earlier efforts by publishers to compete in the >software and cd-Rom businesses. Are their adaptations of Spot and >board books really going to compete in the world of young child and >early education/entertainment apps? Can DK, which has taken many >shots at this before, outdo education publishers with their Human >Body and other projects? Their DK Paris guidebook boasts a gps map >when you lay it flat (like my free Google Maps app?) and their >Starfinder, which shows you constellations in the sky and names >them, is "a pretty cool idea," as Makinson said--just like the $2.99 >Star Walk app from Vito Technology my son has. "Vampire Academy," an >enhanced ebook with live chat and online community for vampire >lovers, seems closest to the mark of connecting a popular >text-driven them with added connectivity for readers. > >Judge for yourself with the videos below. >Makinson >video >Demo >video Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 4 08:41:40 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:41:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <462D0F68-4D82-46D2-B777-58655CDF56EB@itrundle.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> <462D0F68-4D82-46D2-B777-58655CDF56EB@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <8fplq0$3lnnu5@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> At 10:32 PM 3/03/2010, Ivan Trundle wrote: >Ultimately, if we adopted the UK system of opting into a centralised >health record system, I'd be first in the line to have my records >placed where medical staff can find it, though I appreciate that >some Linkers have reservations. Correction of the above: it is opt-OUT, not opt-IN, in the UK NHS. There is a BIG difference. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 4 09:16:51 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:16:51 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3lnnu5@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> <462D0F68-4D82-46D2-B777-58655CDF56EB@itrundle.com> <8fplq0$3lnnu5@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B8EDFD3.40902@ramin.com.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 10:32 PM 3/03/2010, Ivan Trundle wrote: > >> Ultimately, if we adopted the UK system of opting into a centralised >> health record system, I'd be first in the line to have my records >> placed where medical staff can find it, though I appreciate that >> some Linkers have reservations. > > > Correction of the above: it is opt-OUT, not opt-IN, in the UK NHS. > There is a BIG difference. > Accurate pharmaceutical records that are the critical part of the Medical records. As Stil has mentioned even the lay person can see a scar. Alergies/Adverse affects of particular drugs have already been mentioned but another issue, which needs addressing, is making sure patients do not receive bad combinations of drugs. Immunisation records are also useful - when was your last Tetnus shot? Also medical/community health research into what constitutes a healthy lifestyle - though unfortunately we only have data on lifestyles that contribute to poor health outcomes. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From cas at taz.net.au Thu Mar 4 10:01:44 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:01:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <77051740-F720-4E2C-84D1-D9A7E8854F63@itrundle.com> References: <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> <20100303045744.GS24121@taz.net.au> <77051740-F720-4E2C-84D1-D9A7E8854F63@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <20100303230144.GT24121@taz.net.au> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:12:26PM +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 3:57 PM, Craig Sanders wrote: > > why, then, was my new optometrist unable to bulk bill my eye test? > > Simple. Because Medicare do not allow it. which was precisely what i said in the first place. > There's your answer: he would rather recover money from taxpayers than > accept you as an immediate customer. 1. at first glance, that sounds like extreme cynicism. but it's not. it's got the hallmarks of the loony libertarian anti-welfare dogma. 2. wrong. craig -- craig sanders From stephen at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 4 10:02:59 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 23:02:59 GMT Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online Message-ID: <20100303230259.0A95A74B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Stil writes, > Would you like to see my scar? Mine's bigger than yours. Cheers Stephen Message sent using MelbPC WebMail Server From ivan at itrundle.com Thu Mar 4 10:25:19 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:25:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <20100303230144.GT24121@taz.net.au> References: <4B8D9545.3060800@lockstep.com.au> <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> <20100303045744.GS24121@taz.net.au> <77051740-F720-4E2C-84D1-D9A7E8854F63@itrundle.com> <20100303230144.GT24121@taz.net.au> Message-ID: <8DD46074-3492-4CE5-940A-1C068A7A3767@itrundle.com> Craig: your words come across as a very angry person in some of your messages to Link. But it's only words, and your mental state or views are of no interest to me: I offered comment to assist you and others on Link in the act of receiving eye tests. Further, your original statement was: > that optometrist was not allowed to test my eyes because, according to > medicare rules, my previous optometrist "owned" me until the two years > were up. ...and I tried to be helpful by responding that there is nothing to stop an optometrist from testing your eyes at any time - and quoting from the MBS, of which I have had some some familiarity. I made no mention of Medicare refusing to allow the test (which it has no power to do under the MBS scheme). Medicare does allow the test to take place - it's just that... aah, what's the point, I'm going over the same point I made earlier, and there are better brick walls to bash my head against. Warmly iT On 04/03/2010, at 10:01 AM, Craig Sanders wrote: > On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:12:26PM +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: >> On 03/03/2010, at 3:57 PM, Craig Sanders wrote: >>> why, then, was my new optometrist unable to bulk bill my eye test? >> >> Simple. Because Medicare do not allow it. > > which was precisely what i said in the first place. > > >> There's your answer: he would rather recover money from taxpayers than >> accept you as an immediate customer. > > 1. at first glance, that sounds like extreme cynicism. but it's not. it's > got the hallmarks of the loony libertarian anti-welfare dogma. > > 2. wrong. > > craig From cas at taz.net.au Thu Mar 4 10:29:07 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:29:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> Message-ID: <20100303232907.GU24121@taz.net.au> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 04:26:19PM +1100, Kim Holburn wrote: > As someone who occasionally lives in other countries this is all moot. > This is never going to be more than Australia wide. If you find > yourself in emergency in Moscow or Copenhagen or worse the USA it's > not going to help. it won't help you while travelling or living in other countries, but it will almost certainly harm you. health insurance companies will inevitably gain access to your records (even if they have to do it illegally) and WILL use information in them to deny you cover or add exclusions to what is covered. in some cases, this will prevent you from travelling (some countries require that you have private health insurance as a condition of entry). BTW, Australia has reciprocal health-care agreements with several countries[1]: New Zealand, The United Kingdom, The Republic of Ireland, Sweden, The Netherlands, Finland, Italy, Belgium, Malta, and Norway [1] http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/travelling/index.jsp there are, of course, limitations and exclusions and conditions but this page contains a good summary: "Australia's Reciprocal Health Care Agreements with these countries cover any medically necessary treatment you require which may arise while in that country." "medically necessary" and "which may arise while in that country" are the key phrases. visiting a public hospital or emergency ward is covered. pre-arranged elective surgery isn't. craig -- craig sanders From cas at taz.net.au Thu Mar 4 10:34:11 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:34:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <9E88F437-1855-497B-9A45-1870480135A7@itrundle.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <33923001-3336-410C-85B4-8C4C9E94A58D@holburn.net> <8heh0f$1r13o4@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <9E88F437-1855-497B-9A45-1870480135A7@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <20100303233411.GV24121@taz.net.au> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 05:50:02PM +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 03/03/2010, at 5:36 PM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > > > If there is a consistent allergy or heart condition, better off > > carrying some Alert bracelet which people are used to looking for in > > emergency rooms. > > ...which, incidentally, keep your personal details on their own > computer database, and are authorised to give this information to > health and emergency workers. which, incidentally, is completely voluntary and consensual. and under the control of the patient (e.g. simply by not wearing the bracelet or removing the card from your wallet) unlike the mandatory database being planned. which is, IMO, the root cause of the objections - there is no opt-in or opt-out, and patients have no control over which particular health-care workers are allowed access to some or all of their records. craig -- craig sanders From cas at taz.net.au Thu Mar 4 10:48:29 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:48:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8A11A82F-FD37-4CD6-89F1-F04DF9041B55@itrundle.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> <8A11A82F-FD37-4CD6-89F1-F04DF9041B55@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <20100303234829.GW24121@taz.net.au> On Wed, Mar 03, 2010 at 10:27:13PM +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: > > On 03/03/2010, at 10:04 PM, Dr Bob Jansen wrote: > > > Do they really need all my blood pressure readings > > over the past 20 years, notes of all visits to my GP, etc, > > Depending on the circumstances, yes. > > It might not be 20 years of history, but any kind of history can be > helpful when determining a course of action. actually, no. most of what is useful/necessary in emergency treatment can be contained on a voluntarily-carried card listing your allergies and similar immediately relevant medical conditions, and contact details for your doctors and specialists. in an emergency, doctors don't have time to be reading through your records. they only want information that is relevant to determining the immediate treatment (e.g. are you allergic to penicillin?, are you haemophiliac? what drugs, prescription or otherwise, have you taken in the past 24 hours?) more information than that is a distraction and a time-waster. and it's probably also a legal minefield for doctors - if they miss some obscure little detail in your records because they were too busy treating you, that COULD be used against them in a medical negligence case. craig -- craig sanders From cas at taz.net.au Thu Mar 4 10:54:23 2010 From: cas at taz.net.au (Craig Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 10:54:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <8DD46074-3492-4CE5-940A-1C068A7A3767@itrundle.com> References: <8heh0f$1qs3cq@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B8DB20B.2010302@ramin.com.au> <20100303035042.GQ24121@taz.net.au> <20100303045744.GS24121@taz.net.au> <77051740-F720-4E2C-84D1-D9A7E8854F63@itrundle.com> <20100303230144.GT24121@taz.net.au> <8DD46074-3492-4CE5-940A-1C068A7A3767@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <20100303235423.GX24121@taz.net.au> On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 10:25:19AM +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: > I offered comment to assist you and others on Link in the act of > receiving eye tests. actually, you made a pedantic point-scoring post zero-ing in on the fact that i neglected to say "covered by medicare" after "test my eyes" because it was implicitly obvious in the context. > ...and I tried to be helpful [...] no, you weren't trying to be helpful. you were indulging your ego. craig -- craig sanders From liddy at sunriseresearch.org Thu Mar 4 11:07:22 2010 From: liddy at sunriseresearch.org (Liddy Nevile) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 11:07:22 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Dublin Core is 15! Message-ID: <05C64262-F97F-42FE-A3BA-81F29574239D@sunriseresearch.org> There are some early photos of DC DownUnder etc - more are solicited. Please help identify the participants. See the photos at http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4813203&id=687509282#!/ photo_search.php?oid=24728343159&view=all (nice URI? !!) Liddy From swilson at lockstep.com.au Thu Mar 4 11:42:21 2010 From: swilson at lockstep.com.au (Stephen Wilson) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:42:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <2C0E8C67-FFE7-43F1-B7BE-7A87977259BD@stilgherrian.com> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> <8A11A82F-FD37-4CD6-89F1-F04DF9041B55@itrundle.com> <2C0E8C67-FFE7-43F1-B7BE-7A87977259BD@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <4B8F01ED.2000109@lockstep.com.au> Stilgherrian wrote: > Is anyone involved in this discussion about what medical records are or are not needed in emergencies a doctor, nurse, paramedic or hospital administrator I am not a medico but I have worked in the health system for over 20 years, in clinical studies, hospitals, medical device R&D, and e-health. I observe that a lot of the debate on the Link list is treading old ground. Nothing wrong with that. Just be aware that there is heaps and heaps and heaps of considered literature on all aspects of electronic health records, usability, pros and cons, privacy, architecture etc. The claimed benefits of EHRs (such as the system proposed by NEHTA before COAG) are many and varied, and it is true that many of the claims are overstated. It's also true that there are few robust studies so far of the impact on clinical outcomes of going electronic. Regarding Stil's observation that "Evidence is not the plural of anecdote", unfortunately many of the claimed benefits do seem to erupt politician's personal experience of the health system. One past health minister made a big deal about how his medical history was taken time after time as he stayed in hispital. It's commonly said that an EHR available at the hospital bedside will mean medicos won't have to 'waste time' taking histories. But that's nonsense. Histories are taken because ... - the way a patient recounts their condition is itself diagnostic - different medicos have different interests, and look through different prisms - an EHR that held everything of interest to all would probably be unreadable - in public hospitals, medical students take histories as part of their training - it is good bedside manner to take an interest rather than stare at a screen ... and so on. Regarding the availability of emergency information online, as many have observed, what matters in an emergency is usually pretty concise and is better conveyed in a non-volatile card or bracelet. Incidentally, Alan Fels' consumer & privacy working group in the Joe Hockey Access Card project released a really very good analysis of what medical data should go on to a card. I commend the paper, as one of the few worthy outcomes of that effort. I think one of the few claimed benefits of EHRs that is not controversial is the potential to improve public health outcomes and to support better population-wide health resource planning. With proper privacy in place, it will be very valuable to have an eye-in-the-sky view of disease trends, demographic correlations, long term medical device and drug performance, etc. With some privacy and professional medical colleagues, I wrote an academic paper about privacy, security and opt-out healthcare records a few years ago: "Patient Privacy and Security ? Not a zero sum game!" Wilson, Connolly & Denney-Wilson, Journal of the Australian Epidemiology Association V12.1, 2005 Abstract All too often in the debate over electronic health records, the interests of the individual and of the broader community are thought to be at odds. The patient?s fundamental right to privacy is generally assumed to be best served by an opt-in rule requiring their explicit up-front consent to participate. Yet the benefits to population health and medical research of a comprehensive record depend on the completeness of the data and a freedom from bias, both of which may be compromised unless the vast majority do in fact opt-in. Is this tension between individual and community unavoidable? The answer may lie in new security technologies such as smartcards, which can help de-identify event summaries written into the record, while preserving the patient?s explicit control over the process. If fundamental privacy protections can be built into the architecture of electronic health record systems and health identifiers, then the de facto rule might be safely changed from opt-in to opt-out, with significant improvements in participation rates and consequentially the usefulness of population health data. http://lockstep.com.au/library/privacy/patient_privacy_and_security_ Cheers, Steve Wilson Lockstep. From Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au Thu Mar 4 12:09:46 2010 From: Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au (Birch, Jim) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 12:09:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au><264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org><5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> Message-ID: <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D233332882@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> Dr Bob Jansen wrote: > Maybe this represents a compromise over where the stuff gets stored. A > small proportion of the really necessary stuff on central, government > run, servers and the rest with me so I can protect my security. That > way I control who gets access to the detail whilst still having the > necessary stuff available when needed. Your Medicare record will only limited information like demographic data and a list of Medicare item numbers, practitioner and dates. This isn't a health record that a doctor would consider using, except for specific limited purposes. OTOH you might be able to guess a bit from it, say, if you were flogging life insurance, but you'd probably do about as well with demographics and a few questions. Hospitals have multiple systems which generally lack full integration. The main hospital patient administration system (PAS) traditionally contains demographics, and details about when and where the patient has been and who looked at them. The real medical data is distributed through a lot of other systems, emergency medicine, pharmacology, oncology, xray, etc. These systems contain a fair bit of embedded expertise and practice so (eg) a PAS vendor won't be able to match the best oncology system. This federated system presents numerous integration problems. Hospitals are constantly trying to provide better integrated views of their data although the full detail will reside in the specialist systems. PAS vendors incorporate some modules like ward systems that will contain medical information but won't have specialist level detail. Some vendors are attempting to create super applications that encompass all specialities in a single integrated application. This has proven difficult. GPs and specialists are other islands of data. They probably believe that it's their data, rather than the patients or anyone else's, but most of the GP systems couldn't support remote interrogation with granular authorisation anyway. There's a massive problem with incompatible data formats, record standards, and even nomenclature for medical symptoms, conditions, and so on. Patients often fail to tell their GPs that they have been to hospital, even with serious conditions. Public health systems try to notify GPs about hospital admissions and provide a discharge summary for the GP's records if the patient OKs it. Some doctors don't want it. Information transfer the other way is fairly haphazard too. GPs may write a one line referral letter. Hospital doctors may occasionally ring a patient's GP and request information. AFAICS a complete integrated health record is a long way off and current federated model will persist for a long time, with gradual improvements in standards and capability for remote access on a need to know basis. This access will be managed in a federated model too, patient X allows agency Y to make their records available to agency Z. It's worth noting that medical practice doesn't put absolute faith in records unlike, say, a bank. Records are very useful because it takes time to take histories and patients have limited knowledge about their own conditions. However, apart from the obvious need to improve on prior diagnoses that were incomplete, inaccurate or plain wrong, patients change, and so do tests, diagnoses and treatments. That's probably got a lot to do with why the current system is as crazy as it is. Jim Disclosure: I work in IT in the public health system but I'm not fully informed about anything (at all). Here, our knowledge base says we support 320 client applications, though a few may be missed. Most of these are medical but some provide administrative, decision support, etc. I guess a hundred or so contain information that might be called "medical records". CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER The information in this transmission may be confidential and/or protected by legal professional privilege, and is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. If you are not such a person, you are warned that any disclosure, copying or dissemination of the information is unauthorised. If you have received the transmission in error, please immediately contact this office by telephone, fax or email, to inform us of the error and to enable arrangements to be made for the destruction of the transmission, or its return at our cost. No liability is accepted for any unauthorised use of the information contained in this transmission. If the transmission contains advice, the advice is based on instructions in relation to, and is provided to the addressee in connection with, the matter mentioned above. Responsibility is not accepted for reliance upon it by any other person or for any other purpose. From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 4 13:25:50 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:25:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Dublin Core is 15! In-Reply-To: <05C64262-F97F-42FE-A3BA-81F29574239D@sunriseresearch.org> References: <05C64262-F97F-42FE-A3BA-81F29574239D@sunriseresearch.org> Message-ID: <4B8F1A2E.3030009@ramin.com.au> Liddy Nevile wrote: > There are some early photos of DC DownUnder etc - more are solicited. > whatever happened to Dublin Core? I diligently marked up Annandale on the Web, since 1998,....but I can't see that it makes any difference.... > Please help identify the participants. > > See the photos at > > http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4813203&id=687509282#!/ > photo_search.php?oid=24728343159&view=all > > (nice URI? !!) > > Liddy > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From KerryA.Webb at act.gov.au Thu Mar 4 13:51:25 2010 From: KerryA.Webb at act.gov.au (Webb, KerryA) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:51:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Dublin Core is 15! In-Reply-To: <4B8F1A2E.3030009@ramin.com.au> References: <05C64262-F97F-42FE-A3BA-81F29574239D@sunriseresearch.org> <4B8F1A2E.3030009@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <6728FC12ECED9547862D3B4261FBCE001516BBB3@cal067.act.gov.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au [mailto:link- > bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Marghanita da Cruz > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2010 1:26 PM > To: Liddy Nevile > Cc: Link list > Subject: Re: [LINK] Dublin Core is 15! > > whatever happened to Dublin Core? > In Australia, it morphed into AGLS and AS 5044, which are being used by Australian Government bodies. > I diligently marked up Annandale on the Web, since > 1998,....but I can't see that it makes any difference.... > It won't, except that Google will pick up the Description tag to display in search results. Just about everybody ignores the other tags. Kerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 4 14:22:15 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 14:22:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Dublin Core is 15! In-Reply-To: <6728FC12ECED9547862D3B4261FBCE001516BBB3@cal067.act.gov.au> References: <05C64262-F97F-42FE-A3BA-81F29574239D@sunriseresearch.org> <4B8F1A2E.3030009@ramin.com.au> <6728FC12ECED9547862D3B4261FBCE001516BBB3@cal067.act.gov.au> Message-ID: <4B8F2767.2020102@ramin.com.au> Webb, KerryA wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au [mailto:link- >> bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Marghanita da Cruz >> Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2010 1:26 PM >> To: Liddy Nevile >> Cc: Link list >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Dublin Core is 15! >> >> whatever happened to Dublin Core? >> > > In Australia, it morphed into AGLS and AS 5044, which are being used by > Australian Government bodies. > >> I diligently marked up Annandale on the Web, since >> 1998,....but I can't see that it makes any difference.... >> > > It won't, except that Google will pick up the Description tag to display > in search results. > Actually I just checked, as I included both fields (but found they had different text): Google picks up Just about everybody ignores the other tags. > > Kerry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 4 14:54:02 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 14:54:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Your Medicare records online In-Reply-To: <4B8F01ED.2000109@lockstep.com.au> References: <20100303034026.E84F362B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <264A9D020FFB4E7C90DF74350D0D3263@dassa.dhs.org> <5003C4AC-68BC-4499-B273-C86C9ADAF7FA@itrundle.com> <0496F1B8-8F82-4609-83B1-57A6F0D58237@turtlelane.com.au> <8A11A82F-FD37-4CD6-89F1-F04DF9041B55@itrundle.com> <2C0E8C67-FFE7-43F1-B7BE-7A87977259BD@stilgherrian.com> <4B8F01ED.2000109@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: <4B8F2EDA.2030102@ramin.com.au> > Take charge of your health information > > It's safe, secure and free > > * Organize your health information all in one place > * Gather your medical records from doctors, hospitals, and pharmacies > * Share your information securely with a family member, doctors or caregivers Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From gdt at gdt.id.au Fri Mar 5 00:06:02 2010 From: gdt at gdt.id.au (Glen Turner) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2010 23:36:02 +1030 Subject: [LINK] Dublin Core is 15! In-Reply-To: <4B8F1A2E.3030009@ramin.com.au> References: <05C64262-F97F-42FE-A3BA-81F29574239D@sunriseresearch.org> <4B8F1A2E.3030009@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B8FB03A.7080308@gdt.id.au> On 04/03/10 12:55, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: > Liddy Nevile wrote: >> There are some early photos of DC DownUnder etc - more are solicited. >> > > whatever happened to Dublin Core? It's a common metadata description for text objects. When you use OpenOffice's Properties you are populating a Dublin Core schema. Ditto for SVG drawings. -- Glen Turner From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Fri Mar 5 08:44:21 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 08:44:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: >> Penguin's Makinson Demonstrates iPad Adaptations ... forsaking >> epub, which "is designed for narrative text but not this cool stuff >> ... The Epub ebook format is not much more than XHTML and other web format files, zipped into a file to make it portable . I expect that someone, perhaps Apple, will propose a multimedia e-book format, using HTML 5 in place of XHTML, with all the media flies zipped: . This would allow for a more interactive and engaging, less book-like interface. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From stil at stilgherrian.com Fri Mar 5 09:06:35 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:06:35 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> On 05/03/2010, at 8:44 AM, Tom Worthington wrote: > I expect that someone, perhaps Apple, will propose a multimedia e-book > format, using HTML 5 in place of XHTML, with all the media flies zipped: > . > > This would allow for a more interactive and engaging, less book-like > interface. I believe Apple's "iTunes LP" format, released in September last year, is the format you might be imagining. While it's marketed as a way of adding DVD-like "special features" to downloadable movies and album artwork to music, it could well be used for a general multimedia publishing format. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes_LP http://www.apple.com/itunes/lp-and-extras/ Since I'm not really a developer, I haven't gone digging to see whether it's HTML5 or something else under the hood. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 5 10:09:41 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:09:41 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <4B903DB5.2000907@ramin.com.au> Tom Worthington wrote: > I expect that someone, perhaps Apple, will propose a multimedia e-book > format, using HTML 5 in place of XHTML, with all the media flies zipped: > . > It is worth noting that published media files, unlike text files, are already compressed - zipping won't reduce their size. However, packaging webpages (ie text/images) for offline use would be useful - perhaps like a print function of the browser. This could possibly encourage more people to use HTML in preference to Word/PDF. Though the real problem is that the media formats are not going to be compatible with all browsers/readers - Firefox is building in Ogg/Theora/Vorbis while the closed source camp is supporting the licensed MPEG formats. > This would allow for a more interactive and engaging, less book-like > interface. > My notes about early versions of the HTML 5 spec are here: Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 5 10:30:39 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:30:39 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Trust and Privacy on the Social and Semantic Web Workshop Heraklion (Greece), 30th or 31st of May 2010. Message-ID: <4B90429F.7030904@ramin.com.au> Linkers may be interested in this scope of topics... and extension of Submission deadline to March 14, 2010 (23:59 pm Hawaii time, GMT-10) Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From kim at holburn.net Fri Mar 5 10:48:45 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:48:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Strange antiparticles pop out of RHIC's quark-gluon plasma Message-ID: <01FE1732-672A-4134-90FF-4ADE1ADBFEF3@holburn.net> This is the first time I have heard of strange quark interactions being observed. Perhaps I haven't kept up with the latest in particle physics. http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/03/strange-antiparticles-pop-out-of-rhics-quark-gluon-plasma.ars Great quote: "Hypernuclei bring a third dimension into play, based on the strangeness quantum number of the nucleus, thus allowing the territory of antinuclei with nonzero strangeness." -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From antonybbarry at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 12:20:52 2010 From: antonybbarry at gmail.com (Antony Barry) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 12:20:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Strange antiparticles pop out of RHIC's quark-gluon plasma In-Reply-To: <01FE1732-672A-4134-90FF-4ADE1ADBFEF3@holburn.net> References: <01FE1732-672A-4134-90FF-4ADE1ADBFEF3@holburn.net> Message-ID: <2d36879c1003041720l2b98d83w51fe0c0895c08a5@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Kim Holburn wrote: > > This is the first time I have heard of strange quark interactions > being observed. ?Perhaps I haven't kept up with the latest in particle > physics. > > When I were a young physicist we didn't have any of these fancy-nancy quark and gluon thingys. We only just had wild eccentric bongo playing Dick Feynman 's very suss quantum electrodynamics trying to mess up nice Scot, James Clerk Maxwell's, beudyful equations so elegant in Jean le Rond d'Alembert's formulation. Tony -- Phone:02 6241 7659, Mobile:04 3365 2400, Skype:antonybbarry Email:tony at Tony-Barry.emu.id.au, antonybbarry at gmail.com http://www.facebook.com/people/Antony-Barry/1386242004 http://tony-barry.emu.id.au From stephen at melbpc.org.au Fri Mar 5 14:44:16 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 03:44:16 GMT Subject: [LINK] NBN & Telstra Message-ID: <20100305034416.3FE78733@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Personally, i'd like to see our NBN extended to provision Layer 2 services for government agencies such as education and health. Probably better data security, and removing commercial profit-taking for essential gov services Telstra and NBN Co: damned if they do ... March 5, 2010 A report commissioned by the federal government into the implementation of the national broadband network has, predictably, decided that the business case for the proposal is strongest if it is the sole national land-based network. Strongest, in other words, if Telstra accepts a payment of about $8 billion to co-operate fully with its introduction by progressively shutting down its copper network and transferring its copper customers over: Telstra is particularly important to the returns the network achieves in its early years, as it seeks economies of scale. But the as-yet unreleased report by consultants McKinsey & Co and KPMG is also believed to conclude that the network can generate an acceptable return over its projected 20 year-plus commercial life without Telstra. The report has just been completed and the government has not committed to release it, but it obviously must do so as soon as possible, given the importance of the broadband network project. When it does, the report's findings and the assumptions behind them will be examined: and if they survive scrutiny, the Hobson's choice that has driven Telstra's shares to a new low of $2.92 will become painfully apparent. Talks between Telstra about its possible participation in the network project are described by both sides as extremely complicated, and the process is being strained by the Government's use of threats as a negotiating tactic. It has introduced but not yet pushed through the Senate legislation that would punish Telstra for not co-operating with the network introduction, by forcing it to functionally separate itself from its existing network, barring it from future spectrum auctions that will enable the expansion of wireless services, and forcing it to sell off its half-share of Australia's dominant pay TV provider, Foxtel. The legislation is set to return to a finely balanced Senate next Thursday, a crowded day that gives it little hope of progressing. Telstra is watching to to see if the Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy, turns up the heat by moving it to a slot earlier in the week, when it can debated and moved more quickly towards a vote. Senator Conroy last week also revealed draft legislation for the network that might allow it to expand from being a wholesaler of broadband services to Telstra and its competitors into the provision of services to "certain end-users; for example, government agencies". Telstra's profitable business supplying services to the government sector would be undermined if this occurred, and on Tuesday the Telstra chairman, Catherine Livingstone, and the group's chief executive, David Thodey, wrote to shareholders declaring that the bill contradicted the "core purpose" of the network as a wholesaler, and warning that Telstra would need to be paid more to co-operate with the network's creation if the network was also a competitor. But Telstra's real counterpart in the network talks is NBN Co itself, and a simple commercial equation sits at the heart of the fraught talks. Telstra can choose to co-operate with the physical construction of the network by selling some of its own infrastructure into it, in particular by selling access to pipes and ducts that carry its existing, copper- based network. It can also agree to allow its copper wire to be ripped out and replaced with the new fibre, something that would have the effect of progressively transferring its copper wire customers over to the new broadband network. Either or both moves will accelerate the growth of the network, adding value to NBN, and accelerate the decline of Telstra's own copper network, generating a loss of value for Telstra. A payment to Telstra that both sides can commercially justify needs to balance those outcomes, by fairly compensating Telstra for the loss it will incur, but from NBN's perspective, not exceeding the value to the network of Telstra's co-operation: if the payment exceeds the network value-add, the network is better off going it alone. The network implementation report is said to place a net present value of about $30 billion on the project - well below an early headline government estimate of $38 billion to $43 billion that loaded in price inflation during the eight-year construction phase, but closer to the original estimate if it is revised down to between $33 billion and $35 billion using the same net present value methodology. Telstra has suggested three compensation amounts in return for its co- operation so far, and one of the reasons it reacted strongly to last week's draft network legislation is that the legislation surfaced after the third one was made, and before the NBN Co responded. The first two offers were quickly rejected as too high, however, and the delay in a reply to the third may reflect the fact that Telstra is getting closer to a price that works for both sides. Even if if does strike a deal with NBN, Telstra will still need the approval of its unhappy shareholders, of course. The sales pitch could be that with the network rated a goer with or without its help, an upfront payment and perhaps a side-deal giving it an income stream from the network is the best of a bunch of bad options, and certainly preferable to taking its existing, ageing network into head-on competition. -- Cheers, Stephen From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Fri Mar 5 16:20:08 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:20:08 +1100 Subject: [LINK] NBN & Telstra In-Reply-To: <20100305034416.3FE78733@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100305034416.3FE78733@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4B909488.8000807@hunterlink.net.au> On 5/03/2010 2:44 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > ... > Telstra and NBN Co: damned if they do ... > > ... > The sales pitch could be that with the network rated a goer with or > without its help, an upfront payment and perhaps a side-deal giving it an > income stream from the network is the best of a bunch of bad options, and > certainly preferable to taking its existing, ageing network into head-on > competition. > ... For the past few weeks, I've regularly passed an open Telstra pit in the shopping district of a nearby town. It's a bit of a trip hazard, but the pit is crammed with cables, so nobody can actually fall into it. Lying on top is a cut-off soft drink bottle sealed with insulating tape, with cables running into it. Presumably a temporary repair that achieved some level of permanence. If that's typical (and I've seen worse in the countryside), then then there's not much left of the "ageing network" to go into competition. Wasn't privatisation supposed to ensure adequate funding of network maintenance and repairs? -- David Boxall | I have seen the past | And it worked. http://david.boxall.id.au | --TJ Hooker From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Sat Mar 6 08:01:58 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 08:01:58 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad/ebook news Message-ID: <8heh0f$1s1on4@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> >Apple Adjusts, Clarifies iPad Release Dates >Apple announced this morning that they will start taking pre-orders >in the US for the iPad on March 12, and the unit will arrive a few >days later than originally planned, on April 3. (That's for wi-fi >models; 3G units will come in late April.) > >The company says that "all models of iPad will be available in >Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Spain, Switzerland >and the UK in late April." >Release > >In other device news, the WSJ reports on plans by Sony to introduce >"a portable device that shares characteristics of netbooks, >electronic-book readers and handheld-game machines" later this year >to compete with the iPad. >WSJ > >Author JA Konrath continues his series of posts reporting on his >progress selling some of his own books on the Kindle. "I'm currently >selling $1.99 ebooks at the rate of 170 per day. That means I'm >earning around $120 per day just sitting on my butt. If this trend >continues as-is, I'll earn $43,800 this year on previously published >short stories and novels that NY print publishing rejected. But I >don't expect this trend to continue as-is. I expect it to explode," >when Amazon doubles the royalty for such projects. >Blog > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Sun Mar 7 08:21:42 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 08:21:42 +1100 Subject: [LINK] the filter and where the money should really go Message-ID: <8heh0f$1s9ki2@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> [This story demonstrates why the net filter is bad public policy in terms of where funds really need to go.] Cyber-crime cases ignored by untrained police http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/cybercrime-cases-ignored-by-untrained-police-20100306-ppth.html CARMEL EGAN March 7, 2010 PARENTS of children targeted by paedophiles and bullies online or via mobile phones are being fobbed off at their local police stations by officers untrained to deal with cyber-crimes, according to two former high-profile members of Victoria Police. They say Victoria is lagging behind other states and territories when it comes to tackling cyber-crime because the police are unaware of which laws apply to the growing menace of online bullying, ''grooming'' of children for sexual exploitation, stalking and ''sexting'' (sexual texting). ''I would average one call every 14 days from a mother trying to report cyber-bullying or grooming [to police] only to be told 'it's not our problem' and to go to the federal authorities,'' said former cyber-safety project officer Susan McLean. ''Most Victorian police officers have no knowledge of these crimes or how to deal with them.'' Using mobile phones to stalk or to harass is a crime under the Australian Telecommunications Act, a Commonwealth law. Victorian police can conduct investigations into such complaints but lack the expertise to do so, Ms McLean said. Her concerns are echoed by former deputy commissioner Bob Falconer, who said Victoria Police had no policies and frontline police had no instructions on how to deal with such incidents. ''Unless you give police some operation policy or standard guideline, they have no way of dealing with it,'' Mr Falconer said. ''They can take some action but they need to be told that.'' Ms McLean, who now runs her own-cyber safety business, was appointed Victoria's first ''cyber-cop'' in 2006, with responsibility for raising public awareness of internet dangers and recommending strategies to tackling cyber-crime. She was sent to the US on a study tour to gather information on how police in other jurisdictions were tackling this form of crime. On her return, the former senior constable made several recommendations to Victoria Police, including the establishment of a specialised unit to tackle internet crimes against children. But she quit the force in frustration in 2007 after her recommendations were ignored. ''I was a unit of one,'' said Ms McLean. ''I got out because nothing was happening. Victoria Police are playing catch-up. Cyber-crime is not a focal point. It was all in the too hard basket. ''They will tell you there is an e-crime unit, but this is for high-level fraud, stolen identities, major crime. It is not about cyber-bullying, stalking, harassing. There is no expertise and they don't see it as their problem.'' Queensland and Western Australia have established specialised cyber-crime units. Dr Ian Warren, a criminologist and cyber-crime specialist at Deakin University, says police at state and federal levels need a taskforce to deal with this fast-emerging criminal behaviour. "They are incredibly strapped for resources to deal with this, and training is difficult because it is just emerging," Dr Warren said. "We need better training and warnings of how to deal with cyber-crime in the police agencies and better collaboration to break down boundaries between agencies,'' he said. A spokesman for Victoria Police said the force took cyber-crime seriously and aimed to educate the public, particularly parents and children, about the dangers of the internet, through lectures and brochures. The police did not respond to questions about training or whether the force planned to set up a cyber-safety unit. But according to Mr Falconer and Ms McLean, officers are able to act on such issues by referring the complaints to the sex crimes unit. The federal criminal law imposes a maximum penalty of three years' imprisonment for using the internet to menace, harass or cause offence to another user. According to Dr Warren, penalties apply in cases where a ''reasonable person'' would consider the alleged behaviour to be offensive, which could extend to any socially questionable content such as depictions of drug use, sexual violence, strong language or blood and gore. Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Sun Mar 7 11:13:15 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 11:13:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Sustainable ICT Procurement for Canberra In-Reply-To: <4B8ADB85.4080608@tomw.net.au> References: <4B8ADB85.4080608@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <4B92EF9B.3020003@tomw.net.au> I wrote: > I will be giving evidence to the ACT Legislative Assembly Public > Accounts Committee, 9:30 am, 4 March 2010 on "Sustainable ICT > Procurement" ... The hearing went well. Thankyou to the Linkers who came along to provide moral support. The committee was interested in green procurement for ICT, very interested in having common procurement practices between the ACT and federal government and most interested in removing impediments to small business tendering. They were not interested in the ACT government having staff trained in green practices. Of note were questions about insurance requirements in government tenders causing problems for small IT businesses. I suggested a cap on professional indemnity (the ACS has a scheme with a $1.5M cap for NSW). Also I suggested making the worker's compensation paperwork simpler. I threatened to move my business from Canberra to NSW if this was not done. Desperate times call for desperate measures. ;-) More at: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Sun Mar 7 12:48:19 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:48:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Open Wifi threatened in UK Message-ID: <8heh0f$1sautg@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> U.K. bill would 'outlaw open Wi-Fi' The U.K. government will not exempt universities, libraries, and small businesses providing open Wi-Fi services from its Digital Economy Bill copyright crackdown, according to official advice released earlier this week. This would leave many organizations open to the same penalties for copyright infringement as individual subscribers, potentially including disconnection from the Internet, leading legal experts to say it will become impossible for small businesses and the like to offer Wi-Fi access. Lilian Edwards, professor of Internet law at Sheffield University, told ZDNet UK on Thursday that the scenario described by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) in an explanatory document would effectively "outlaw open Wi-Fi for small businesses" and would leave libraries and universities in an uncertain position....Read More... Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Sun Mar 7 12:49:09 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:49:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] EU stand up to ACTA Message-ID: <8heh0f$1sautr@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Europe 'will not accept' three strikes in Acta treaty The European Commission has pledged to make sure the Acta global treaty will not force countries to disconnect people for unlawfully downloading copyrighted music, movies and other material. The assurance from the office of the trade commissioner, Karel De Gucht (pictured), is the strongest statement on Acta (the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement) to emerge from the new Commission since it took office earlier in February. "We are not supporting...Read More... Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From kim at holburn.net Sun Mar 7 13:52:30 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 13:52:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Apple's HTC attack is a very dangerous game Message-ID: <6E18C49A-2B02-4FDD-B241-2CF8CE46F643@holburn.net> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/leader/0,1000002982,40067878,00.htm > Apple's HTC attack is a very dangerous game > > The intellectual property in mobile phones is a mess. Most of it is > locked up in a set of cross-licensing agreements between the major > players, making it very hard for outsiders to play ? except on their > terms. If you've ever wondered why there are so few new names in > handset manufacturing, one of the biggest markets on the planet, > then that is why. > > It so happened that Apple, an outsider, chose not to play it that > way. It didn't like what Nokia wanted as a cross-licensing deal and > hit back with claims of violation of its own handset IP. > > HTC is different: it isn't part of the inner sanctum of GSM/3G IP > holders, but it is the standard bearer for Android. Its crime > against Apple is of playing the same role to the iPhone as the PC > did to the Macintosh. Cheaper, quicker to innovate with and easier > to adopt ? these are powerful things in Android's favour. > > Apple doesn't like those odds, but appreciates that attacking a > major Linux distribution with patents is incendiary. So, instead of > going after Google, it has asked the International Trade Commission > to ban imports of HTC's Android phones to the US. Such an outcome is > entirely possible, in the name of free trade, and sends a very > powerful message to other Android adopters. > > So far, so normal in the aggressively dirty world of corporate IP. > If you can stand the sight of big companies claiming moral > superiority while spitting in each other's soup, it's even > entertaining. Think of it as a natural history programme with > silverback gorillas ripping chunks out of each other before reaching > an understanding over how to divide the females and foliage. > > The trouble is, this goes a long way beyond smartphones. The patents > Apple has invoked cover some basic aspects of modern computing ? and > many were written in the 1990s, when a great many very bad software > patents got accepted in the first panicky flush of defensive > posturing. The impetus then was to have something ? anything ? to > hit back if a rival decided to attack. The broader, and more wide- > ranging, the better to up the odds of making any court case too > expensive and risky to contemplate. > -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au Sun Mar 7 15:33:54 2010 From: tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au (Antony Barry) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 15:33:54 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: New mobile rules mean premium safeguards for SMS References: <00342880012679138677893@subscribedmailings.com> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Australian Communications & Media Authority" > Date: 7 March 2010 9:17:47 AM AEDT > To: > Subject: New mobile rules mean premium safeguards for SMS > Reply-To: media at acma.gov.au > > New rules to come into effect on 1 July 2010 will give consumers the choice of barring all premium SMS from their mobile phones and thus preventing unwanted premium SMS charges. > > ?If you don?t want these services, you can simply contact your phone company and ask for them to be turned off,? said ACMA Chairman, Chris Chapman. > > ?This will be a great option for parents who want to make sure their kids don?t sign up for something without understanding the charges. And people trying to manage their phone budget can stop premium charges by barring these services from their phone. > > ?This is the latest in a package of measures we have put in place so mobile users can feel confident they will only receive and pay for services they actually want.? > > The ACMA considers mobile phone companies should also move towards enabling consumers to request quick and easy barring via SMS. > > The ACMA will meet with senior representatives from mobile phone companies to discuss the introduction of this service for consumers and timings. > > New rules to stop mobile phone companies engaging with rogue operators are also being developed. > > Following the measures introduced last year, complaints to the Telecommunication Industry Ombudsman about premium SMS services have decreased by 50 per cent. > > ?That is a dramatic turnaround.? said Mr Chapman ?The ACMA expects this trend to continue and will be monitoring the industry closely over the next twelve months to ensure that consumer concerns are being adequately addressed. > > ?The ACMA has demonstrated its willingness to pursue, to the full extent of its powers, providers of premium SMS services that repeatedly operate in breach of rules governing these services,? said Mr Chapman. > > Recently, the ACMA accepted an enforceable undertaking ( http://www.emailhosts.com/ct/ctcount.php?key=008881470096813200002125 )from Funmobile Australia Pty Limited, a premium SMS supplier, following an investigation into allegations that it had sent SMS messages in breach of the Spam Act. As part of the enforceable undertaking, Funmobile agreed to implement training, complaint handling and quality assurance programs. Funmobile also undertook to pay a financial component of $55,000. > > The Consultation Paper (http://www.emailhosts.com/ct/ctcount.php?key=008881460096813200002125 ) setting out proposed new premium SMS charging and contracting rules for industry, and further information on making submissions is available from the ACMA website. Submissions are due by 5pm on Friday 9 April 2010. > > Background material on regulation of mobile premium services is available on the ACMA website (http://www.emailhosts.com/ct/ctcount.php?key=008881450096813200002125 ) > > For more information or to arrange an interview please contact: Donald Robertson, Media Manager on (02) 9334 7980, 0418 86 1766 or media at acma.gov.au. > > # # # > > The ACMA is Australia?s regulator for broadcasting, the internet, radiocommunications and telecommunications. The ACMA?s goal is to make communications and media work in Australia?s public interest. We engage users and providers in a dynamic, changing environment. For more information www.acma.gov.au > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Mar 8 09:17:11 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 09:17:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Role of IT in health, Canberra 9 March & Brisbane 17 March Message-ID: <4B9425E7.9070609@tomw.net.au> The ACS is hosting "The Patient Journey - What role for IT?" by Dr George Margelis from the Digital Health Group of Intel Australia in Canberra, on 9 March 2010: . Also Brisbane, on 17 March 2010: . --- "George took on the role of Industry Development Manager for Intel's new Digital Health Group in November 2005. For him it was an opportunity to take an active role in changing the way healthcare was delivered in Australia. Prior to moving to Intel Australia he has been very active in the healthcare informatics arena as the CIO of a private hospital group in Sydney, manager of an innovative software development group developing solutions for healthcare providers and consumers, and board member at the state and national level of the Health Informatics Society of Australia. He is a registered medical practitioner having graduated from the University of Sydney. He is also a registered optometrist and holds a graduate degree in E-Business from the University of Southern Queensland. He ran a successful software company during the heady days of the late 80's and early 90's and has been an active computer enthusiast from the late 70's when he acquired his first PC, a Sinclair Z80." --- ps: ACS hosted a talk on "ICT in Health Delivery in the 21st Century" in 11 November 2008: . Two days later I was taken by ambulance to Canberra Hospital: . The staff found me one of the best informed patients they have ever had. ;-) -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Mon Mar 8 09:21:32 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 09:21:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] the Fairfax website trying to be too clever Message-ID: <8eavh8$r49ef@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Is anyone else finding this interchange of webpages among the Fairfax group to be problematic? I wanted to read a feature story about Google Evil [love the logo, with the devil pitchfork on the Age homepage], but it points to: http://production-interface.dcds.fairfaxdigital.com.au/proofAsset.action?assetId=1201332&brandName=The%20Age What is a production interface? Anyway, it doesn't load. It may be the same as the 'frenemy' story in the Technology section, but who would know? Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From stil at stilgherrian.com Mon Mar 8 09:55:21 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 09:55:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] the Fairfax website trying to be too clever In-Reply-To: <8eavh8$r49ef@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> References: <8eavh8$r49ef@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <863387FA-2D61-4EA6-A329-81754472CDDD@stilgherrian.com> On 08/03/2010, at 9:21 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Is anyone else finding this interchange of webpages among the Fairfax > group to be problematic? > > I wanted to read a feature story about Google Evil [love the logo, > with the devil pitchfork on the Age homepage], but it points to: > http://production-interface.dcds.fairfaxdigital.com.au/proofAsset.action?assetId=1201332&brandName=The%20Age > > What is a production interface? Anyway, it doesn't load. It may be > the same as the 'frenemy' story in the Technology section, but who would know? Link works fine for me just now. http://www.theage.com.au/technology/biz-tech/how-google-became-the-indispensable-frenemy-20100308-pqyc.html I don't think it's a matter of "clever". The link you cite looks like an editor's link in their content management system. Maybe the story was still marked as a draft for a while even after the home page promo was published. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From kim at holburn.net Mon Mar 8 10:01:36 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 10:01:36 +1100 Subject: [LINK] the Fairfax website trying to be too clever In-Reply-To: <8eavh8$r49ef@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> References: <8eavh8$r49ef@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <719B0AC5-5430-4F29-988A-C4FD9B2ED48D@holburn.net> When I look at the front page with scripting allowed that story points to the frenenemy story. On 2010/Mar/08, at 9:21 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Is anyone else finding this interchange of webpages among the Fairfax > group to be problematic? > > I wanted to read a feature story about Google Evil [love the logo, > with the devil pitchfork on the Age homepage], but it points to: > http://production-interface.dcds.fairfaxdigital.com.au/proofAsset.action?assetId=1201332&brandName=The%20Age > > What is a production interface? Anyway, it doesn't load. It may be > the same as the 'frenemy' story in the Technology section, but who > would know? > > Jan > > > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia > jwhit at janwhitaker.com > blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ > business: http://www.janwhitaker.com > > Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or > sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. > ~Madeline L'Engle, writer > > _ __________________ _ > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From marghanita at ramin.com.au Mon Mar 8 13:56:01 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:56:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Google to add captions to youtube videos Message-ID: <4B946741.2080609@ramin.com.au> > San Francisco: Google is to add automatic captions to the tens of millions of English-language videos it hosts on YouTube, the web search giant said Friday. > ... > "We know it's not perfect, and sometimes it will be funny," said Google engineer Ken Harrenstien, who is deaf. "But it's better than nothing." -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From georgebray at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 01:05:09 2010 From: georgebray at gmail.com (George Bray) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 01:05:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Role of IT in health, Canberra 9 March & Brisbane 17 March In-Reply-To: <4B9425E7.9070609@tomw.net.au> References: <4B9425E7.9070609@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <635bd2181003080605u6aad3dc7sf96461799db2707@mail.gmail.com> He ran a successful software company during the heady days > of the late 80's and early 90's and has been an active computer > enthusiast from the late 70's when he acquired his first PC, a Sinclair > Z80." That's ZX-80, which had a Z80 CPU. My first computer, the ZX-80 had 1KB RAM and an audio cassette for storage. I used wet tissue on the heatsink to keep it from crashing. Today, my computer has 7 million times more memory. Cardboard box?, you were lucky! -- George Bray, Canberra, Australia. http://geobray.com From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Tue Mar 9 08:21:47 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:21:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australian Tsunami Awareness Review Message-ID: <4B956A6B.4030606@tomw.net.au> The Attorney-General, Robert McClelland, announced a Tsunami Awareness Project, and a review of the public response to tsunami warnings on 6 March: . Also a "Tsunami Education and Awareness" as CD-ROM and web site is distributed by Surf Life Saving Australia: http://beachsafe.org.au/tsunami/>. These initiatives are of limited value due to a lack of detail about the review and restrictions placed on distribution of the awareness campaign materials by the Attorney. The Attorney says he has written to Emergency Services Ministers and Surf Life Saving Organisations requesting a review of the public response to tsunami warnings. It is not clear who is conducting the review, what resources have been made available for it or when it is to be completed. The Attorney did not release the proposed terms of reference for the review. Australia has a well designed and run Joint Australian Tsunami Warning Centre (JATWC) provided by the Bureau of Meteorology and Geoscience Australia: However, there is no national system for the warnings to be distributed, nor for or response. Warnings are sent to an ad-hoc arrangement of state organisations and then to an assortment of local bodies. It is not surprising that the public may take little notice of the resulting confusing and contradictory messages they get as a result. An example of the lack of effort for Tsunami warning is show by the Queensland Government's "Queensland Tsunami Notification Protocol" (Version 1 , 9 December 2009): . This has been distributed as a 9 page 3.7Mbyte PDF document, scanned from a paper original. As a result the text of the protocol cannot be found with a search or copied for use in other documents. The protocol contains such outdated procedures as the JTWC contacting Queensland by telephone before issuing a Tsunami warning. This is not an acceptable procedure, as it would delay the issue of a warning and risk public safety. The protocol assumes a 90 minute warning for a Tsunami. However, situations can arise much more quickly, which would place emergency personnel in the dilemma of either following procedures or ignoring them to issue a timely warning. The Protocol does not specify how agencies within Queensland are notified. Based on previously experience of a Tsunami warning in Queensland, it is not clear the Queensland Government has a system for coordinating a response . Tsunami Education and Awareness Material The distribution of the awareness material by Surf Life Saving Australia will be greatly hampered be the Attorney's decision to ban making copies. The Attorney has imposed copyright restrictions on the material banning the making of any copies without written permission of the federal government. The Attorney could have instead used a Creative Commons licence, freely allowing not-for-profit distribution. Tests on the main menu page of the awareness kit show: 1. No HTML Validation Errors. 2. Score of only 35/100 with the W3C mobileOK Checker. It would be very useful for such a awareness program to be compatible with mobile phones used by young people. 3. On an automated accessibility test (TAW 3.0 for WACG 1.0) the page had zero Priority 1, sixteen Priority 2 and 4 Priority 3 problems. It would be useful if the page at least met current Australian guidelines for accessibility of web sites by the disabled. More at: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From antonybbarry at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 18:04:59 2010 From: antonybbarry at gmail.com (Antony Barry) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:04:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Role of IT in health, Canberra 9 March & Brisbane 17 March In-Reply-To: <635bd2181003080605u6aad3dc7sf96461799db2707@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B9425E7.9070609@tomw.net.au> <635bd2181003080605u6aad3dc7sf96461799db2707@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d36879c1003082304w3fdada52q9d16bc4e3cc62940@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:05 AM, George Bray wrote: > > That's ZX-80, which had a Z80 CPU. ?My first computer, the ZX-80 had > 1KB RAM and an audio cassette for storage. I used wet tissue on the > heatsink to keep it from crashing. Today, my computer has 7 million > times more memory. ?Cardboard box?, you were lucky! > I still have on my shelves - Intel 8080/8085 assembly language programming, Intel Corp, 1977 William Barden "The Z-80 microcomputer handbook". Indianapolis, Howard W Sams, 1978. Willian Barden "TRS-80 assembly language programming", Fort Worth, Radio Shack, 1979. I bought a TRS-80 in 1978 which had 4k of RAM which I upgraded to 16k and it also had 16k of ROM which had all of it's software. Mostly a Basic interpreter.. Tony -- Phone:02 6241 7659, Mobile:04 3365 2400, Skype:antonybbarry Email:tony at Tony-Barry.emu.id.au, antonybbarry at gmail.com http://www.facebook.com/people/Antony-Barry/1386242004 http://tony-barry.emu.id.au From dassa at dhs.org Tue Mar 9 18:20:23 2010 From: dassa at dhs.org (Darryl (Dassa) Lynch) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 18:20:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Role of IT in health, Canberra 9 March & Brisbane 17 March In-Reply-To: <2d36879c1003082304w3fdada52q9d16bc4e3cc62940@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B9425E7.9070609@tomw.net.au><635bd2181003080605u6aad3dc7sf96461799db2707@mail.gmail.com> <2d36879c1003082304w3fdada52q9d16bc4e3cc62940@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au wrote: || On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:05 AM, George Bray || wrote: ||| ||| That's ZX-80, which had a Z80 CPU. ?My first computer, the ZX-80 had ||| 1KB RAM and an audio cassette for storage. I used wet tissue on the ||| heatsink to keep it from crashing. Today, my computer has 7 million ||| times more memory. ?Cardboard box?, you were lucky! ||| || || || I still have on my shelves - || || Intel 8080/8085 assembly language programming, Intel Corp, || 1977 William Barden "The Z-80 microcomputer handbook". || Indianapolis, Howard W Sams, 1978. || Willian Barden "TRS-80 assembly language programming", Fort Worth, || Radio Shack, 1979. || || I bought a TRS-80 in 1978 which had 4k of RAM which I || upgraded to 16k and it also had 16k of ROM which had all of || it's software. Mostly a Basic interpreter.. I have the 8086/8088 book on my shelf, the Z-80 and TRS-80 books are packed away with the TRS I picked up years ago. Along with the VZ 200 and 300 books although I don't have those first computers I used any more. Darryl (Dassa) Lynch From stephen at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 9 22:36:13 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:36:13 GMT Subject: [LINK] Fwd: ISOC Next Generation Leaders Message-ID: <20100309113613.50F27888@eagle.melbpc.org.au> > From: Connie Kendig > Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 11:36:28 -0500 > Subject: ISOC Next Generation Leaders [Upcoming Call for Applications] Dear Internet Society members: (Free Membership) On 15 March 2010, the ISOC NGL will open up three calls for applications for the following components: the ISOC Fellowship to the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), the ISOC Internet Governance Forum (IGF) Ambassadors programme, and the new ISOC NGL eLearning programme. To learn more about the NGL, and each of the three components, please visit: www.isoc.org/leaders Please review each component separately, including the separate criteria, to help you decide which component(s) are appropriate for your professional background and future goals. The application cycles will be as follows: eLearning: 15 March: application cycle opens 5 April: application cycle closes Week of April 19: notifications sent 3 May: classes begin IGF Ambassadors: 15 March: application cycle opens 12 April: application cycle closes mid-May: notifications sent 14-17 September: Vilnius, Lithuania meeting ISOC Fellowship to the IETF: *please note there is no age criteria for this component* 15 March: application cycle opens 16 April: application cycle closes mid-May: notifications sent 25-30 July: Maastricht, Netherlands meeting 7-12 November: Beijing, China meeting We will send another email on 15 March officially announcing that applications are being accepted. Any questions may be sent to leaders at internetsociety.org Best, Connie J Kendig Sponsored Programs & Grants Manager Internet Society www.isoc.org Tel: +1 703 439-2136 _______________________________________________ Isoc-members-announce mailing list Isoc-members-announce at elists.isoc.org http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/isoc-members-announce -- Cheers, Stephen From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Wed Mar 10 08:23:38 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:23:38 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Princeton University e-reader pilot In-Reply-To: <871B1597F6E4F04B85465F9C7E706C5004587788@CASEVS03.cas.anu.edu.au> References: <871B1597F6E4F04B85465F9C7E706C5004587788@CASEVS03.cas.anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <4B96BC5A.5090706@tomw.net.au> An e-reader pilot at Princeton University, using Amazon Kindle DX ebook readers, found them as readable as printed material, but a major problem was the difficulty of annotating ebooks: . There is a 7 page (127 Kbytes PDF) executive summary as well as a full report available. Ironically, these reports are provided in PDF, the format the report found the students had most difficulty annotating. In my view a low cost netbook computer would overcome most of the limitations reported with the Kindle for educational purposes at a lower overall cost. This would have a superior keyboard, allowing notes to be taken and add-on software could be used to add notes to PDF documents. Netbooks provide a colour screen, more useful for annotations. Most students could use the netbook as their primary computer, with a low cost external screen, keyboard and mouse at home. The ebook has advantages of light weight, long battery life and daylight readable screen, but require students to have a second computer for their studies, adding cost and complexity. --- Abstract In the Fall of 2009, the Office of Information Technology (OIT) at Princeton conducted a pilot program using electronic readers (e-readers) in a classroom setting. The pilot was conducted with three broad goals. One was to reduce the amount of printing and photocopying done in the three pilot courses. The second was to determine if using this technology in the classroom could equal (or better) the typical classroom experience where more traditional readings were used. The third sought to explore the strengths and weaknesses of current e-reader technology to provide suggestions for future devices. From: The E-reader pilot at Princeton, Fall semester, 2009, Final report, (executive summary), Janet Temos, Princeton University, February 2010 --- More in my blog at: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 10 13:57:33 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:57:33 GMT Subject: [LINK] Google Labs, Public Data Explorer Message-ID: <20100310025733.B5E6B870@eagle.melbpc.org.au> This seems interesting .. http://www.google.com/publicdata/home Google Labs: Data visualizations for a changing world ​The Google Public Data Explorer makes large datasets easy to explore, visualize and communicate. As the charts and maps animate over time, the changes in the world become easier to understand. You don't have to be a data expert to navigate between different views, make your own comparisons, and share your findings. Explore the data Students, journalists, policy makers and everyone else can play with the tool to create visualizations of public data, link to them, or embed them in their own webpages. Embedded charts and links can update automatically so you?re always sharing the latest available data. Here?s an example of an embedded visualization: ​This chart correlates life expectancy and number of children per woman for most economies of the world. The bubble sizes show population, and the colors represent different regions of the world. You can also click on the play button to see data change over time. The Explore data link in the bottom right corner brings you to the explore tool that lets you play with the data by highlighting regions, switching variables, or even adjusting the scale. Learn more by visiting our FAQ and checking out our tutorial .. ​This is a Google Labs project, which means it's work in progress. We are making it available now to gather feedback, but also to get in contact with public data providers who want to try publishing some data on this new platform. If you have data that deserves a broader audience, please tell us about it. -- Cheers Chris, (via a tweet) Steve Loosley From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 10 14:15:09 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:15:09 GMT Subject: [LINK] Free US spectrum for wireless Message-ID: <20100310031510.07E55870@eagle.melbpc.org.au> U.S. considers some free wireless broadband service (Reuters) - U.S. regulators may dedicate spectrum to free wireless Internet service for some Americans to increase affordable broadband service nationwide, the Federal Communications Commission said on Tuesday. The FCC provided few details about how it would carry out such a plan and who would qualify, but will make a recommendation under the National Broadband Plan set for release next week. The agency will determine details later. One way of making broadband more affordable is to "consider use of spectrum for a free or a very low cost wireless broadband service," the FCC said in a statement. The FCC statement was released during a Digital Inclusion Summit aimed at connecting one-third of Americans without home broadband service. The FCC also said there would also be a recommendation in the broadband blueprint to launch a Digital Literacy Corps of volunteers who would provide training to communities with low rates of adoption. (Reporting by John Poirier; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn) -- Cheers, Stephen From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 10 14:57:07 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:57:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] 'The treasury your fingertips transplant, there's no joy' Message-ID: This is quite funny. Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-YAQ1wfNqc (the iPad intro from Apple) ...and turn on 'CC' (closed captioning) by clicking on the 'CC' icon and select 'Transcribe audio'. A sample or three: "...I've had is the best way two grounds the reasons they just to hold a book or a magazine or newspaper in your hands you read them to hold the internet in your hand as the surface this heart you can just see more of the west as your service." "I tried to use the world-class female it's incredibly fun but very productive if you go through why is it you know really quickly and it's fun because you're too tall to him..." "Polls show Clinton key the NASDAQ in children I look upon her vote you're sure that friend look over the eye that and I think automatically flips the photo to the trek to ring to it..." "With half of your finger you can purchase doula I mean the police are treating it police in almost two hours oh no I can't the iTunes store the gap store and now the eyeball..." ("You're too tall to him" should really be "You're doing it all with your hands", but I'll let your mind boggle over the rest)... -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Thu Mar 11 08:30:25 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:30:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network Message-ID: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> Dr George Margelis, from Intel's Digital Health Group, talked on Tuesday in Canberra about "The Patient Journey - What role for IT?" he will be repeating this in Brisbane, 17 March: . Dr Margelis, showed a number of interesting before and after video segments of problems with the health system and how ICT could help. Normally I dislike company videos in presentations as they are advertisements for companies. While these were clearly produced for Intel, they were relevant to the topic. The first video was of someone being rushed to hospital in an ambulance. This is something I could identify with having had it happen to me: . The video illustrated how currently medical staff in the ambulance and the hospital use computer based systems, but these are not linked, so that information has to be relayed by voice or paper. A future scenario showed the patent details being shared online between the ambulance and the hospital. Dr Margelis emphasised that none of the technology envisaged was exotic and was not already in use in other fields. It was a matter of integrating it into the medial system in a way which helped the medical staff and the patents. The major issue was to network records so that dispersed medical services could serve the patient. Dr Margelis showed a scenario networking the ambulance to the hospital, to the remote specialist. In a later scenario Dr Margelis showed patients using a home based system. This not only monitored the patent and prompted them to take medication, but also connected them to their helpers and medical staff. One problem I had with these scenarios is that they were applying computerisation to an existing system without considering how to change the system. As an example, it is difficult for a hospital to obtain patent's GP records in an emergency, because the records are stored on paper in dispersed GP offices. The Intel solution is to network the records. An alternative low technology solution would be to group the GPs in clinics. These clinics would then be large enough to employ professional record keepers and be open 24 hours a day, so they could respond to emergency record requests. My doctor would not like this as they see themselves as a provider of custom personal services, not part of a corporation. However, the alternative ICT solution will result in some loss of their autonomy. What Dr Margelis presented was a clear logical vision. The question this raises is why has it not been done? This is not a technical issue, but still an issue for ICT professionals. It is not enough we have a solution that the customer is not buying. The underlying issues as to why such systems are not implemented need to be addressed. The Prime Minister has proposed to take over all public hospitals in Australia: . As Dr Margelis pointed out, the public hospitals are the smallest and least important part of the health care system. There is a risk that the government will concentrate on hospitals, resulting in better hospitals but an overall decline in the quality of health care and an increase in costs. This would be similar to the situation where the government funded insulation in homes is likely to increase energy use, rather than reduce it: . Similarly a networked national hospital system may increase costs and reduce the health of the population. Some far less glamorous, less expensive, more local community health initiatives, might be far more effective. These could still make use of ICT. The NBN Company provides one possible model for the health care reforms: . Under this approach the government announced an impressive sounding multi-billion dollar national broadband network (NBN). They then set up a government owned company to implement it. What NBN Co has done is architect a national system, but are first implementing small scale local projects. These projects are small enough to be implemented efficiently and provide local benefits in the short term, so the government can be seen to be delivering services (in what might happen to be marginal electorates). One day all these system might join up into the envisaged national system, but in the interim they will provide useful local services to the community and political kudos to the government. Current attempts at national e-Health standards are mired in the need to have a consultative process between government and industry. NBN overcame this problem with broadband standards by consulting with parties, but making clear that as a company they were not required to wait for everyone to agree and were going to make a decision and then implement that decision. A NHN Co (Australian National Health Network Company) could make similar decisions for e-health standards and the implement them. The government could announce the goal that all public hospitals would be networked and all patent records would be available by a set date. Governments and companies which did not wish to cooperate would not be funded. One interesting question asked was when will patents will be able to ask their doctor to put their records on Google health. This might be useful for the patent, but the doctor would need to be compensated for the extra effort in working out how to do this: . Another question was on casemix to provide appropriate incentives for keeping people healthy, instead of dispensing medicine to them. If there were the right incentives this would provide an incentive for better ICT systems to keep the patents out of hospital: . It was pointed out that there are now international standards for medical imaging (Xrays). There is work on for standards for the medial records delivered to the patent in the home, so that we will not first build proprietary systems and then have to convert to real standards. It may be that Australia has to accept an international standard which is not as good as a local standard, but which is adequate and has the advantage of widespread acceptance. More in my blog: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 11 08:41:41 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:41:41 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 08:30 AM 11/03/2010, Tom Worthington wrote: >The government could announce the goal that all public hospitals would >be networked and all patent records would be available by a set date. >Governments and companies which did not wish to cooperate would not be >funded. Been there, doing that. www.nehta.gov.au Still many problems. Let's see, this has been going on for about 10 years now, in exactly the way you suggest: 'small project' (in various states and for various aspects of the medical process) and 'medium' project (HealthConnect). Some have succeeded and are moving ahead, others have failed dismally. Heck, there is even a bill before Parliament for the first legislative change, creating -- ta da! -- individual health identifiers, that is, a number for each and every one of us! Call it Access Card 'lite'. Medicare is even proposed to manage the database! http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/clac_ctte/healthcare_identifier/hearings/index.htm Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Thu Mar 11 08:56:26 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:56:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <4B98158A.3000203@tomw.net.au> Stilgherrian wrote: > On 05/03/2010, at 8:44 AM, Tom Worthington wrote: >> I expect that someone, perhaps Apple, will propose a multimedia >> e-book format, using HTML 5 in place of XHTML, with all the media >> flies zipped ... > > > I believe Apple's "iTunes LP" format, released in September last > year, is the format you might be imagining. While it's marketed as a > way of adding DVD-like "special features" to downloadable movies and > album artwork to music, it could well be used for a general > multimedia publishing format. ... Might be, but I can't find any document specifying what version of HTML iTunes LP supports. But being Apple, perhaps that is defined as "whatever Safari supports". ps: When referring to "Zipped" I meant the Zip file format: . That both compresses individual files and packages them up in one archive file. The compression works fine for HTML and CSS. I assume it is smart enough not to try and compress already compresses audio, image and video formats. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Thu Mar 11 09:15:07 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:15:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: At 8:30 +1100 11/3/10, Tom Worthington wrote: ... [Interesting summary of an interesting presentation] ... > ... A NHN Co (Australian National Health Network >Company) could make similar decisions for e-health standards and the >implement them. ... [Jan beat me to it, but I'll say it anyway] The tragedy is that HealthConnect (a large-scale program within the Dept of Health) and now NEHTA, have wasted 15 years. One and then the other has wasted their time working towards a great, virtually-centralised database in the sky, complete with national id number. What was their real job? Inter-operability, incl. technical standards and protocols, inter-organisational (i.e. human) protocols, demonstrators and reference code, and support for priority applications. Yesterday, several organisations (APF, PIAC and CLPC) had to pour cold water all over NEHTA, DOHA and Medicare, in front of a Senate Committee. The Bills before the Senate are solely to create a national healthcare identifier. No substance. Just an enabler of a national id scheme. The great promise that the Rudd regime seemed to offer is turning out to be completely vacuous. Plural EHRs have been reduced to a singular EHR. eHealth has been reduced to a national identifier followed by a national database. None of this has anything to do with patient care, or even with public health. It has everything to do with admin, insurance and research. Added to that, the hospitals take-over proposal contains nothing at all that's relevant to health care - it's just money and politics. The fiasco in the Dept of Environment demonstrated the total incapacity of federal bureaucrats to run anything more complicated than a turkey raffle. And, even in matters of policy, they're so far removed from the real world, and so committed to simple-minded centralisation and top-down management, that little that they initiate bears fruit. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From KerryA.Webb at act.gov.au Thu Mar 11 09:21:38 2010 From: KerryA.Webb at act.gov.au (Webb, KerryA) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:21:38 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <6728FC12ECED9547862D3B4261FBCE001527BFA8@cal067.act.gov.au> Roger wrote: > > The fiasco in the Dept of Environment demonstrated the total > incapacity of federal bureaucrats to run anything more complicated > than a turkey raffle. And, even in matters of policy, they're so far > removed from the real world, and so committed to simple-minded > centralisation and top-down management, that little that they > initiate bears fruit. > I think that's a bit harsh. "Federal bureaucrats" can run damned good turkey raffles, but I think in time we'll learn that there were a lot of "but Minister" comments to do with resources and timing, but they were told to press on regardless. Kerry (no longer a federal bureaucrat, lo these 14 years) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ivan at itrundle.com Thu Mar 11 09:35:16 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:35:16 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <4B98158A.3000203@tomw.net.au> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> <4B98158A.3000203@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: On 11/03/2010, at 8:56 AM, Tom Worthington wrote: >> I believe Apple's "iTunes LP" format, released in September last >> year, is the format you might be imagining. While it's marketed as a >> way of adding DVD-like "special features" to downloadable movies and >> album artwork to music, it could well be used for a general >> multimedia publishing format. ... > > Might be, but I can't find any document specifying what version of HTML > iTunes LP supports. But being Apple, perhaps that is defined as > "whatever Safari supports". Rumour has it the the iTunes LP format is the bastard child of the RIAA, and if Apple had the chance, they wouldn't use it. The only reason it exists is to appease the RIAA, and has proved to be a spectacular, unmitigated flop. But of course this is just a rumour... -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From georgebray at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 10:12:12 2010 From: georgebray at gmail.com (George Bray) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:12:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <4B98158A.3000203@tomw.net.au> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> <4B98158A.3000203@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <635bd2181003101512u3ef5b296t72cf7af415b52f74@mail.gmail.com> Tom, you're right, essentially Safari/Webkit. Creating iTunes LP iTunes LP is simply a directory with an ".itlp" extension and a set of defined contents, described below. The iTunes application will recognize such directories and import them into its library. Once there, they are associated with their corresponding album, and iTunes presents a special UI in order to allow the user to initiate playback. At its core, iTunes LP is an HTML file that is presented using an embedded version of the Safari Web Browser within iTunes. The Web engine used in iTunes 9.0 is equivalent to the Safari 4.0 release, and you can expect most content that functions correctly when loaded into Safari to do the same in iTunes, with a few restrictions. The HTML content must be valid HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.0 or HTML 5. It can reference other assets such as images, audio, movies, CSS and JavaScript as long as they are addressed by relative URLs and are included in the iTunes LP package - referencing media external to the iTunes LP will fail. Links to external sites are allowed, but will not open within iTunes. Instead, they will launch inside the Web browser on the user's system. Also plugins such as Flash and Java are not supported - for media use the HTML 5 audio or video elements. http://www.apple.com/itunes/lp-and-extras/ geo On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Tom Worthington wrote: > Might be, but I can't find any document specifying what version of HTML > iTunes LP supports. But being Apple, perhaps that is defined as > "whatever Safari supports". -- George Bray, Canberra, Australia. http://geobray.com From kim at holburn.net Thu Mar 11 10:24:48 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:24:48 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/11, at 9:15 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: > The fiasco in the Dept of Environment demonstrated the total > incapacity of federal bureaucrats to run anything more complicated > than a turkey raffle. And, even in matters of policy, they're so far > removed from the real world, and so committed to simple-minded > centralisation and top-down management, that little that they > initiate bears fruit. What I don't understand is that we have three levels of government which control all these things. From state governments which control working conditions, right down to local governments which control building approvals and building works. I still don't understand why with all these layers of government we blame it all on the top level. Where were the other two levels? Federal government is supposed to do top level policy. State and local are supposed to be there at the implementation. What went wrong with them? -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 11 10:52:39 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:52:39 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1trv3l@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 10:24 AM 11/03/2010, Kim Holburn wrote: >with all these layers of government we blame it all on the top level. >Where were the other two levels? Federal government is supposed to do >top level policy. State and local are supposed to be there at the >implementation. What went wrong with them? I think that's a misunderstanding of federalism. It's not a top-down approach through all systems. There is a separation of areas of responsibility rather than a pure hierarchy. The problem in Australia is the lack of the ability of states to levi certain kinds of taxes. So the money for social services has to come from Canberra. As they say, he who pays the piper calls the tune. In your description, the feds would be the government and the states would be the 'departments' or executive administration of programs. That's not how it works. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 11 11:21:53 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:21:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Apps for Healthy Kids competition. Message-ID: <4B9837A1.60404@ramin.com.au> > Let?s Move! for the > Apps for Healthy Kids competition. > > $40,000 in prizes to create innovative, fun and engaging tools and games that encourage children directly or through their parents to make more nutritious food choices and be more physically active. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 11 12:00:51 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:00:51 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> <4B98158A.3000203@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: On 11/03/2010, at 9:35 AM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > Rumour has it the the iTunes LP format is the bastard child of the RIAA, and if Apple had the chance, they wouldn't use it. The only reason it exists is to appease the RIAA, and has proved to be a spectacular, unmitigated flop. > > But of course this is just a rumour... On this point, an iPhone / iPad developer (their work is now almost entirely on the iPad) says: I can't speak to who was behind its inception, but iTunes LPs are being given pretty high profile spots in the iTunes Store. I will say that having just completed a post-mortem of the new Gorillaz album for a client, Apple seem to have worked very closely with EMI on the iTunes LP's production. As for formats, Apple's documentation doesn't list specific HTML versions. The albums themselves vary between doctypes, but there's a lot of WebKit candy in there, like -webkit-gradient and -webkit-transform. In my mind, I think Apple is behind the iTunes LP format. Can you imagine the RIAA coming out with a DRM-free format that uses open web technologies like HTML, CSS, and JavaScript? All distributed in a simple Zip archive? Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From ivan at itrundle.com Thu Mar 11 12:35:49 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:35:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> <4B98158A.3000203@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <17B8D430-8F65-4E53-9F91-6062C0AEED0C@itrundle.com> On 11/03/2010, at 12:00 PM, Stilgherrian wrote: > On 11/03/2010, at 9:35 AM, Ivan Trundle wrote: >> Rumour has it the the iTunes LP format is the bastard child of the RIAA, and if Apple had the chance, they wouldn't use it. The only reason it exists is to appease the RIAA, and has proved to be a spectacular, unmitigated flop. >> >> But of course this is just a rumour... > > On this point, an iPhone / iPad developer (their work is now almost entirely on the iPad) says: > > I can't speak to who was behind its inception, but iTunes LPs > are being given pretty high profile spots in the iTunes Store. All 31 albums... that's a pretty poor number of albums in six months since Cocktail was finally delivered as iTunesLP. > I will say that having just completed a post-mortem of the new > Gorillaz album for a client, Apple seem to have worked very > closely with EMI on the iTunes LP's production. >From a production standpoint, quite likely, and from a technical perspective, most certainly - but the gist of the rumour story is that albums are the tombstone of the recording industry, and that it only suited an earlier distribution mechanism. The rumour spreader insists that iTunesLP was not Apple's idea, and that although the recording industry conceded to Apple in offering DRM-free music via iTunes (mainly to counter Amazon, of course), this was seen as an olive branch from Apple to the industry. Also, it hardly makes sense for a company that promoted the push into singles to suddenly attempt to revitalise the album format - even with iPads just around the corner (which suit iTunesLP formats far better than anything else that Apple have invented so far). And it is worthy of note that Steve Jobs didn't mention iTunesLP once during the iPad launch. iT From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 11 13:40:54 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:40:54 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$1trv3l@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> <8heh0f$1trv3l@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B985836.7070001@ramin.com.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > I think that's a misunderstanding of federalism. It's not a top-down > approach through all systems. There is a separation of areas of > responsibility rather than a pure hierarchy. > > The problem in Australia is the lack of the ability of states to levi > certain kinds of taxes. So the money for social services has to come > from Canberra. As they say, he who pays the piper calls the tune. > The GST was a move from State Taxes (stamp duty was abolished and I think payroll tax was also to go) to National Taxes. The GST was to be allocated to the states or whoever is providing the services. Under federalism every state has equal representation. This is great for "smaller states" ie not NSW. This means that in 500,000 Tasmanians are respresented by 12 senators and 6,000,000 NSW people are represented by 12 senators. The 300,000 ACTites and how ever many NTites there are, with just two senators each may feel dudded. There are a number of equations worth contemplating 1. GST revenue from NSW 2. GST revenue from Tas The medicare levy is based on income and here too, NSW is probably contributing more than its fair share. By the way, the latest salvo in the US healthcare debate: Marghanita --- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Thu Mar 11 14:04:58 2010 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (Richard Chirgwin) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:04:58 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> Message-ID: <4B985DDA.1030206@ozemail.com.au> Kim Holburn wrote: > On 2010/Mar/11, at 9:15 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: > >> The fiasco in the Dept of Environment demonstrated the total >> incapacity of federal bureaucrats to run anything more complicated >> than a turkey raffle. And, even in matters of policy, they're so far >> removed from the real world, and so committed to simple-minded >> centralisation and top-down management, that little that they >> initiate bears fruit. >> > > > What I don't understand is that we have three levels of government > which control all these things. From state governments which control > working conditions, right down to local governments which control > building approvals and building works. I still don't understand why > with all these layers of government we blame it all on the top level. > Where were the other two levels? Federal government is supposed to do > top level policy. State and local are supposed to be there at the > implementation. What went wrong with them? > > Well: in this case, local government wasn't involved; and actually, my reading of the problems with the insulation scheme is that some were caused by the states. I'm pretty sure that Queensland got in the way of some requirements to do with licensing and training (but will stand corrected if I'm wrong). I don't have any particularly strong feelings about getting rid of state government. Some things are bigger than local council but smaller than national government - think railway networks for example. But I like the principle outlined by Gittins yesterday, the "organising principle of subsidiarity" - give the job to the "smallest competent authority". http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/think-small--and-other-capital-ideas-20100309-pvpd.html RC From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 11 14:13:44 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:13:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B985836.7070001@ramin.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> <8heh0f$1trv3l@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B985836.7070001@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1tue06@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 01:40 PM 11/03/2010, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >The GST was a move from State Taxes (stamp duty was abolished >and I think payroll tax was also to go) to National Taxes. Actually stamp duty wasn't abolished. It's still big time here in Victoria. Don't know about NSW or the other states. I pay stamp duty on my car reg each year and I believe some other payments, oh, rereg of my business. There is also hefty stamp duty on property sales. The GST handover was Costello's 'bribe' to get the states to support the tax and eliminate the argy-bargy of the yearly grants to the states process. How well that's worked out is up for grabs. As you say, some states subsidise the smaller ones. That's called Federalism and was going on via income and corporate tax redistribution anyway. It's just that now there's a consumption tax to add to the pot. Income taxes were reduced, but not state stamp duty as was part of the original intent. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Thu Mar 11 14:27:55 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:27:55 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$1trv3l@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> <8heh0f$1trv3l@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B98633B.2040904@hunterlink.net.au> On 11/03/2010 10:52 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 10:24 AM 11/03/2010, Kim Holburn wrote: >> with all these layers of government we blame it all on the top level. >> Where were the other two levels? Federal government is supposed to do >> top level policy. State and local are supposed to be there at the >> implementation. What went wrong with them? > > I think that's a misunderstanding of federalism. It's not a top-down > approach through all systems. There is a separation of areas of > responsibility rather than a pure hierarchy. > > The problem in Australia is the lack of the ability of states to levi > certain kinds of taxes. So the money for social services has to come > from Canberra. As they say, he who pays the piper calls the tune. > > In your description, the feds would be the government and the states > would be the 'departments' or executive administration of programs. > That's not how it works. > ... What chills me is the realisation that health records will inevitably be networked nationally and, eventually, internationally. Lives will depend on how well it's done. History gives no comfort. -- David Boxall | When a distinguished but elderly | scientist states that something is http://david.boxall.id.au | possible, he is almost certainly | right. When he states that | something is impossible, he is | very probably wrong. --Arthur C. Clarke From tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au Thu Mar 11 14:43:51 2010 From: tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au (Antony Barry) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:43:51 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> Message-ID: <08EAEE0C-F3AB-4B80-B83F-0D47FDEED5EB@tony-barry.emu.id.au> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Australian Communications & Media Authority" > Date: 9 March 2010 11:15:22 AM AEDT > To: > Subject: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] > Reply-To: media at acma.gov.au > > It?s time to re-register for the Do Not Call Register for people who signed up in 2007. This will ensure you do not get any unwanted telemarketing calls. > Registrations for the Do Not Call Register are valid for three years. Anyone who signed up when the service was launched in May 2007 should re-register now to maintain protection from unwanted marketing calls. > The Chairman of the Australian Communications and Media Authority, Chris Chapman, said more than one million numbers were listed when the register was first launched in May 2007. > ?It?s now time to re-register your numbers if you want to make sure you don?t receive telemarketing calls,? Mr Chapman said. > ?Any numbers not re-registered by their three-year expiry deadline will be automatically removed from the register > ?So the best way to protect yourself from the days when you?d sit down to dinner and the telemarketing calls would start is to re-register your numbers now.? > More than 4.3 million home, mobile and VoIP numbers are now listed on the Do Not Call Register. > According to a recent ACMA survey, 93 per cent of people who registered their landlines noticed a marked reduction of telemarketing calls. > Mr Chapman said anyone in any doubt about when they listed their numbers should re-register them anyway. > ?It?s fast, free and easy ? simply call 1300 792 958 or go to www.donotcall.gov.au, where you can learn more and re-register,? Mr Chapman said. > For more information or to arrange an interview please contact: Donald Robertson, Media Manager on (02) 9334 7980, 0418 86 1766 or media at acma.gov.au. > # # # > The ACMA is Australia?s regulator for broadcasting, the internet, radiocommunications and telecommunications. The ACMA?s goal is to make communications and media work in Australia?s public interest. We engage users and providers in a dynamic, changing environment. For more information: www.acma.gov.au > > From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Thu Mar 11 15:23:59 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:23:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] [ISOC-AU-mems] EU Parliament votes 663-13 against ACTA Message-ID: From: Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com> Date: 11 March 2010 2:51:56 PM To: pubpol-wg at elists.isoc.org Subject: [Pubpol-wg] EU Parliament votes 663-13 against ACTA http://www.boingboing.net/2010/03/10/eu-parliament-votes.html The European Parliament resoundingly voted against the secret Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA), in a resounding 663 to 13 tally. The parliamentarians defied the EU executive and threatened to take the issue to the European Court of Justice if the EU doesn't reject ACTA's provisions on disconnection for infringement and other enforcement provisions. A strong majority of MEPs (663 against and 13 in favour) today voted against the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA), arguing that it flouts agreed EU laws on counterfeiting and piracy online. In addition, the Parliament's decision today states that MEPs will go to the Court of Justice if the EU does not reject ACTA rules, including cutting off users from the Internet "gradually" if caught stealing content. Though MEPs cannot participate in the ACTA talks, without the consent of the European Parliament, EU negotiators will have to go back to the drawing board and come up with a compromise. --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 917 442 8665 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com --------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Pubpol-wg mailing list Pubpol-wg at elists.isoc.org http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/pubpol-wg -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From kim at holburn.net Thu Mar 11 15:36:00 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:36:00 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <08EAEE0C-F3AB-4B80-B83F-0D47FDEED5EB@tony-barry.emu.id.au> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <08EAEE0C-F3AB-4B80-B83F-0D47FDEED5EB@tony-barry.emu.id.au> Message-ID: <99713147-3A6E-487A-906C-82C5A1F46656@holburn.net> I don't understand why people should have to reregister. What's wrong with a permanent registration? On 2010/Mar/11, at 2:43 PM, Antony Barry wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Australian Communications & Media Authority" > > >> Date: 9 March 2010 11:15:22 AM AEDT >> To: >> Subject: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls >> [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] >> Reply-To: media at acma.gov.au >> >> It?s time to re-register for the Do Not Call Register for people >> who signed up in 2007. This will ensure you do not get any unwanted >> telemarketing calls. >> Registrations for the Do Not Call Register are valid for three >> years. Anyone who signed up when the service was launched in May >> 2007 should re-register now to maintain protection from unwanted >> marketing calls. >> The Chairman of the Australian Communications and Media Authority, >> Chris Chapman, said more than one million numbers were listed when >> the register was first launched in May 2007. >> ?It?s now time to re-register your numbers if you want to make sure >> you don?t receive telemarketing calls,? Mr Chapman said. >> ?Any numbers not re-registered by their three-year expiry deadline >> will be automatically removed from the register >> ?So the best way to protect yourself from the days when you?d sit >> down to dinner and the telemarketing calls would start is to re- >> register your numbers now.? >> More than 4.3 million home, mobile and VoIP numbers are now listed >> on the Do Not Call Register. >> According to a recent ACMA survey, 93 per cent of people who >> registered their landlines noticed a marked reduction of >> telemarketing calls. >> Mr Chapman said anyone in any doubt about when they listed their >> numbers should re-register them anyway. >> ?It?s fast, free and easy ? simply call 1300 792 958 or go to www.donotcall.gov.au >> , where you can learn more and re-register,? Mr Chapman said. >> For more information or to arrange an interview please contact: >> Donald Robertson, Media Manager on (02) 9334 7980, 0418 86 1766 or media at acma.gov.au >> . >> # # # >> The ACMA is Australia?s regulator for broadcasting, the internet, >> radiocommunications and telecommunications. The ACMA?s goal is to >> make communications and media work in Australia?s public interest. >> We engage users and providers in a dynamic, changing environment. >> For more information: www.acma.gov.au >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 11 15:40:58 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:40:58 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <99713147-3A6E-487A-906C-82C5A1F46656@holburn.net> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <08EAEE0C-F3AB-4B80-B83F-0D47FDEED5EB@tony-barry.emu.id.au> <99713147-3A6E-487A-906C-82C5A1F46656@holburn.net> Message-ID: On 11/03/2010, at 3:36 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: > I don't understand why people should have to reregister. What's wrong > with a permanent registration? Because people move home occasionally, or change numbers. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From ivan at itrundle.com Thu Mar 11 15:50:46 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:50:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <08EAEE0C-F3AB-4B80-B83F-0D47FDEED5EB@tony-barry.emu.id.au> <99713147-3A6E-487A-906C-82C5A1F46656@holburn.net> Message-ID: On 11/03/2010, at 3:40 PM, Stilgherrian wrote: > On 11/03/2010, at 3:36 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: >> I don't understand why people should have to reregister. What's wrong >> with a permanent registration? > > Because people move home occasionally, or change numbers. Fair enough, but why is an phone account number sought (though not required, I understand): surely all that is needed is a phone number? iT From kim at holburn.net Thu Mar 11 16:08:15 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:08:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <08EAEE0C-F3AB-4B80-B83F-0D47FDEED5EB@tony-barry.emu.id.au> <99713147-3A6E-487A-906C-82C5A1F46656@holburn.net> Message-ID: <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/11, at 3:50 PM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 11/03/2010, at 3:40 PM, Stilgherrian wrote: > >> On 11/03/2010, at 3:36 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: >>> I don't understand why people should have to reregister. What's >>> wrong >>> with a permanent registration? >> >> Because people move home occasionally, or change numbers. Ummm, so you could change your registration then. A lot less work for them really. Who's benefit is this all for anyway? The only reason to force three year registrations is to let telemarketers have another crack at the numbers of those who forget to reregister. > Fair enough, but why is an phone account number sought (though not > required, I understand): surely all that is needed is a phone number? -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From dlochrin at d2.net.au Thu Mar 11 07:05:25 2010 From: dlochrin at d2.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:05:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> Message-ID: <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> On Thursday 11 March 2010 16:08, Kim Holburn wrote: >>> Because people move home occasionally, or change numbers. > > Ummm, so you could change your registration then. A lot less work > for them really. Who's benefit is this all for anyway? The only > reason to force three year registrations is to let telemarketers > have another crack at the numbers of those who forget to reregister. Telephone numbers are re-allocated when given up for whatever reason and, who knows, a registered number might be given to someone who just l-o-v-e-s marketing calls. I wouldn't be surprised if it were part of some compromise with telemarketers. Personally, I've found a firm "I'm sorry, but I don't take marketing calls" quite effective in reducing them to almost zero. But one has to be ruthless in refusing every caller, including the worthwhile charities. David From kim at holburn.net Thu Mar 11 17:10:41 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:10:41 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> Message-ID: <0D422E29-2788-4C2A-8EED-37E0C959DFD9@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/11, at 7:05 AM, David Lochrin wrote: > On Thursday 11 March 2010 16:08, Kim Holburn wrote: >>>> Because people move home occasionally, or change numbers. >> >> Ummm, so you could change your registration then. A lot less work >> for them really. Who's benefit is this all for anyway? The only >> reason to force three year registrations is to let telemarketers >> have another crack at the numbers of those who forget to reregister. > > Telephone numbers are re-allocated when given up for whatever reason > and, who knows, a registered number might be given to someone who > just l-o-v-e-s marketing calls. Yes well they could always unregister couldn't they? It's not supposed to be any harder. None of this seems like a real reason to force everyone to reregister. A huge amount of work for everyone on the list and the list maintainers, hundreds of thousands of registrations as opposed to say: one or two of deregistrations? > I wouldn't be surprised if it were part of some compromise with > telemarketers. Yeah, there you go. > Personally, I've found a firm "I'm sorry, but I don't take marketing > calls" quite effective in reducing them to almost zero. But one has > to be ruthless in refusing every caller, including the worthwhile > charities. > > David -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 11 17:23:33 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:23:33 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <0D422E29-2788-4C2A-8EED-37E0C959DFD9@holburn.net> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> <0D422E29-2788-4C2A-8EED-37E0C959DFD9@holburn.net> Message-ID: <93585AE4-BED5-4834-B625-921BEB7DAEDD@stilgherrian.com> On 11/03/2010, at 5:10 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: > Yes well they could always unregister couldn't they? It's not > supposed to be any harder. None of this seems like a real reason to > force everyone to reregister. A huge amount of work for everyone on > the list and the list maintainers, hundreds of thousands of > registrations as opposed to say: one or two of deregistrations? Or, dare I say it, we could just let people use caller ID and screen their calls and -- gasp! -- accept that maybe it's OK for someone to initiate a conversation and the other party to politely say "Sorry, I'm not interested". That way we'd save the entire cost of this rigmarole. Are people really so precious that they cope with occasionally glancing at their phone and not answering if they don't recognise the number? Or so desperate for contact that they can't just turn the phone off if they're doing something else? Very, very few of us are really on call requiring instant response to anyone who might thing they want us Right Now. [ducks] Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From ivan at itrundle.com Thu Mar 11 17:31:56 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:31:56 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <93585AE4-BED5-4834-B625-921BEB7DAEDD@stilgherrian.com> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> <0D422E29-2788-4C2A-8EED-37E0C959DFD9@holburn.net> <93585AE4-BED5-4834-B625-921BEB7DAEDD@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: On 11/03/2010, at 5:23 PM, Stilgherrian wrote: > Or, dare I say it, we could just let people use caller ID and screen their calls and -- gasp! -- accept that maybe it's OK for someone to initiate a conversation and the other party to politely say "Sorry, I'm not interested". Doesn't work: I've had caller ID since it was made available, and unfortunately, most of my regular callers (work and private) use blocked numbers - as do marketers. The obvious answer of 'why not let the phone ring out, let people leave a message?' elicits this response from me: in a business sense, it is bad business, and in any event, I'd rather not foot the bill for calling others who have generous mobile caps or who are calling from OS when they are the ones wishing to talk with me. The difficulty in saying 'No thanks' to marketing calls is trivial, especially since the number of marketing calls is now dramatically less than it used to be, which I would hope is because of my registration with ACMA. Warmly iT -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 11 17:33:04 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:33:04 +1100 Subject: [LINK] =?windows-1252?q?Government=92s_plan_to_appoint_an_IT_advo?= =?windows-1252?q?cate_to_assist_SMB_suppliers_targeting_government_and_en?= =?windows-1252?q?terprise_contracts?= Message-ID: <4B988EA0.8030107@ramin.com.au> > Labor ACT senator, Kate Lundy, has announced the Government?s plan to appoint an IT advocate to assist SMB suppliers targeting government and enterprise contracts ... > ?With multinational enterprises and government CIOs often hesitant to undertake business with small to medium-sized businesses due to perceptions of risk, the IT Supplier Advocate will work with parties to mitigate these often unfounded perceptions of risk associated with contracting a small business,? she said. and... > On the issue of a Government fund to provide SMBs with professional indemnity insurance and reduce the burden on small to medium businesses, the Senator said she would look at any proposals presented by the IT industry. > > ?One of the most frustrating things is professional indemnity insurance requirement is often way beyond the value of the contracts. It?s an issue of education in the Government market about the perception of risk,? she said. > > But the Senator said she would help the SMB IT advocacy position to recommend legislative changes to streamline the industry. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Thu Mar 11 18:32:36 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:32:36 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <93585AE4-BED5-4834-B625-921BEB7DAEDD@stilgherrian.com> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> <0D422E29-2788-4C2A-8EED-37E0C959DFD9@holburn.net> <93585AE4-BED5-4834-B625-921BEB7DAEDD@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: At 17:23 +1100 11/3/10, Stilgherrian wrote: >Are people really so precious that they cope with occasionally >glancing at their phone and not answering if they don't recognise >the number? Or so desperate for contact that they can't just turn >the phone off if they're doing something else? ... >[ducks] And well you should, Stil. A lot of people accept calls from numbers that they don't recognise, assuming that they're from a community-member, and in good faith: 'Someone on the P&C / kids' football committee said you offered to help this weekend' / 'we've found a cat with your phone-number on its collar' ... -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 11 18:41:21 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:41:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> <0D422E29-2788-4C2A-8EED-37E0C959DFD9@holburn.net> <93585AE4-BED5-4834-B625-921BEB7DAEDD@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <23AD8CCB-1642-4C15-9CE8-C606322F51FE@stilgherrian.com> On 11/03/2010, at 6:32 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > At 17:23 +1100 11/3/10, Stilgherrian wrote: >> Are people really so precious that they cope with occasionally >> glancing at their phone and not answering if they don't recognise >> the number? Or so desperate for contact that they can't just turn >> the phone off if they're doing something else? > ... >> [ducks] > > And well you should, Stil. > > A lot of people accept calls from numbers that they don't recognise, > assuming that they're from a community-member, and in good faith: > 'Someone on the P&C / kids' football committee said you offered to > help this weekend' / 'we've found a cat with your phone-number on its > collar' ... So, they should answer the phone. And politely say "Sorry, I'm not interested", whether that's about helping at the trading table or buying a product. I stand by what I said. That a call is wrong if it's about "grubby commerce" is Victorian middle-class pretension. People are being precious. Conversely, they don't *have* to answer the phone. They can listen to the voicemail later and call back, or not. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Thu Mar 11 19:31:17 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:31:17 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <23AD8CCB-1642-4C15-9CE8-C606322F51FE@stilgherrian.com> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <4E7F7BBB-5D59-4FDA-9BAB-6035675C6589@holburn.net> <201003110705.25960.dlochrin@d2.net.au> <0D422E29-2788-4C2A-8EED-37E0C959DFD9@holburn.net> <93585AE4-BED5-4834-B625-921BEB7DAEDD@stilgherrian.com> <23AD8CCB-1642-4C15-9CE8-C606322F51FE@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: At 18:41 +1100 11/3/10, Stilgherrian wrote: >So, they should answer the phone. And politely say "Sorry, I'm not >interested", whether that's about helping at the trading table or >buying a product. >I stand by what I said. That a call is wrong if it's about "grubby >commerce" is Victorian middle-class pretension. People are being >precious. A lot of the population is that way, and always will be. You're getting taken in by the upbeat, techno-hip environment you operate it. (Sorry the adjectives are so 80s and 90s). Or I could try it within that segment's own terms: in an era when people are increasingly time-poor, they want to interact with the people they want to interact with, not the cretins who populate the direct marketing world. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 11 22:45:11 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:45:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B98633B.2040904@hunterlink.net.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <877D6074-FB9D-4F2B-B314-76AB60CE8602@holburn.net> <8heh0f$1trv3l@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B98633B.2040904@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: <8kgklc$150m9m@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> At 02:27 PM 11/03/2010, David Boxall wrote: >What chills me is the realisation that health records will inevitably be >networked nationally and, eventually, internationally. Lives will depend >on how well it's done. History gives no comfort. If you want an education: http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/clac_ctte/healthcare_identifier/hearings/index.htm Day one: http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S12875.pdf - mostly the pro-stakeholders and this for day two: http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S12876.pdf - mostly the skeptics This is just about the new ID number. Yes, it's b-a-a-a-c-k. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 11 22:51:40 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:51:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: <99713147-3A6E-487A-906C-82C5A1F46656@holburn.net> References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <08EAEE0C-F3AB-4B80-B83F-0D47FDEED5EB@tony-barry.emu.id.au> <99713147-3A6E-487A-906C-82C5A1F46656@holburn.net> Message-ID: <8kgklc$150m9p@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> At 03:36 PM 11/03/2010, Kim Holburn wrote: >I don't understand why people should have to reregister. What's wrong >with a permanent registration? The woman on ABC local this morning said it was because of 'bad' numbers being left behind. >Fair enough, but why is an phone account number sought (though not >required, I understand): surely all that is needed is a phone number? > >iT account? I just had to enter my numbers. Stil said: >Are people really so precious that they cope with occasionally >glancing at their phone and not answering if they don't recognise >the number? Or so desperate for contact that they can't just turn >the phone off if they're doing something else? > >Very, very few of us are really on call requiring instant response >to anyone who might thing they want us Right Now. So you want me to install yet another piece of technology to see a number that I won't remember anyway? And you do realise that telemarketers block call numbers, right? Turn of four phones? How? Go around and take them all off hook? Why should I make myself uncontactable by everyone because of the dregs? Some people do have responsibilities for others that do require Right Now access (parents, carers). Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From dlochrin at d2.net.au Thu Mar 11 13:20:00 2010 From: dlochrin at d2.net.au (David Lochrin) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:20:00 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR30/2010: Re-register now to avoid telemarketing calls [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] In-Reply-To: References: <03284180012680937227601@subscribedmailings.com> <23AD8CCB-1642-4C15-9CE8-C606322F51FE@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <201003111320.00927.dlochrin@d2.net.au> On Thursday 11 March 2010 19:31, Roger Clarke wrote: > A lot of the population is that way, and always will be. You're > getting taken in by the upbeat, techno-hip environment you > operate it. (Sorry the adjectives are so 80s and 90s). The phrase "upbeat, techno-hip environment" crystallises the idea well. We could say the same about the upbeat, econo-hip environment of those who precipitated the GFC. > Or I could try it within that segment's own terms: in an era when > people are increasingly time-poor, they want to interact with the > people they want to interact with, not the cretins who populate the > direct marketing world. Those cretins are, in the end, simply responding to demand. Unfortunately we seem to have come to a point where simple concern on the part of both the telemarketers and their business clients for the comfort & autonomy of other human beings is so devalued. Non-cooperation is my solution. David From stephen at melbpc.org.au Fri Mar 12 01:33:55 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:33:55 GMT Subject: [LINK] The Program Message-ID: <20100311143355.515017A8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Hi all, http://www.theprogram.com.au Welcome to The Program (Beta version) The Program is a nationwide "what's on" guide, giving you the latest info on events, festivals, gigs, performances, theatre shows, exhibitions and loads more ? all in your local area. Set up a profile and meet people who enjoy the same things as you do, and who can help you to find a whole lot more. And if you?re putting on events, it?s free and easy to add your own page and start to build an audience community. The project has been assisted by the Australian Government through the Australia Council, its art funding and advisory body. Event Listings, 12th March 2010: Browse Events (All Events 489) Circus (5) Comedy Show (30) Conference (6) Dance & Physical Theatre (30) Exhibition (116) Fashion Show (1) Festival (32) Film (24) Installation (9) Music (189) Other (11) Performance Art (13) Reading / Book Launch (2) Talk Forum (14) Theatre (102) Workshop (11) Get Connected on The Program! * FIND PEOPLE Let other people on The Program help you to find events that you might like. Browse and connect to other people and follow their activity throughout the site. * JOIN A GROUP Join a Group that focusses on your areas of interest, or why not start your own and invite friends to join you? * BECOME A FAN Become a Fan of an organisations or a venue, find other fans and get regular updates on new events and activities. * START TALKING There's discussions happening all over The Program jump in and find out what other people are saying, or start your own discussion about something you're passionate about. * JOIN US! Join "The Program Community" group for all things related to the site, latest news about The Program, site updates, ideas, suggestions and feedback. We're all ears! -- Cheers, Stephen From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 12 08:45:30 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:45:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Conroy delays bill to rein in telemarketers' Message-ID: [Conroy's chickened out on extending the Register. He's withdrawn this: Do Not Call Register Legislation Amendment Bill 2009 http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/billsdgs/R9SV6/upload_binary/r9sv60.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf#search=%22Do%20Not%20Call%20bills%20and%20legislation%22 The Bill amends the Do Not Call Register Act 2007 (the DNCR Act) with the purpose of expanding the Do Not Call Register to enable all Australian telephone and fax numbers to be registered, including those used by businesses and emergency services. [This is not relevant to the consumer concerns, which haven't reached the stage of a Bill yet. Conroy delays bill to rein in telemarketers NINA HENDY The Sydney Morning Herald (Business Section) March 12, 2010 http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/conroy-delays-bill-to-rein-in-telemarketers-20100311-q1oe.html THE bill to extend the Do Not Call Register to include businesses has been struck from the federal parliamentary schedule, representing a clear victory for the advertising and marketing industry. The proposed legislation had gained support from a Senate inquiry and was to have been debated in Parliament yesterday but was removed from the agenda. A spokeswoman for the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Stephen Conroy, said he remained committed to the extension of the register to include businesses. However, the delay gives the advertising and marketing sector another chance to persuade the government to dump the bill. The spokeswoman went on to say that the department would continue to meet interested parties to discuss the detail of the legislation, which confirms that the government believes the issue warrants further debate. The reprieve comes after strong opposition from the advertising, marketing and telecommunications industries, which argued that the proposed extension of the register would restrict legitimate telemarketing. If passed, the bill would prevent small businesses from calling a business to promote, advertise or propose to supply goods and services. Failure to check a phone number against the register would result in a maximum $1.1 million fine for every day a business was in breach. The development comes the same week that the Council of Small Business of Australia met representatives of Senator Conroy's office to negotiate a compromise on the extension of the register. The council chairwoman, Jaye Radisich, was relieved by the delay and said small businesses needed to generate new leads by telephone to build their business. She said the council was concerned about the adverse effect on small- and medium-sized businesses. The Australian Direct Marketing Association's director of corporate and regulatory affairs, Melina Rohan, said: "The decision to put this issue on the backburner is entirely sensible given the considerable costs and restrictions this would impose on Australian businesses." The chief executive of the Australian Association of National Advertisers, Scott McClellan, said stronger justification was needed before introducing new regulatory compliance obligations that could interfere with normal commerce, hinder business growth and increase business costs. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Fri Mar 12 09:00:12 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:00:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Baird Report on International Students Message-ID: <4B9967EC.30104@tomw.net.au> "Stronger, simpler, smarter ESOS: supporting international students" by Bruce Baird was released 9 March: .. This recommends improved regulation of Australia?s international education sector, support for international students, improved information improved support for for students and consumer protection mechanisms. The report is a 108 page 1.2Mbyte PDF document. The Minister for Education, Julia Gillard, welcomed the report: The Government supports recommendations to amend the ESOS Act to increase the standard for education providers and restricting unethical student recruitment practices. Other changes will require state legislation. It occurs to me that many of the proposed recommendations, such as improving information to students and consumer protection, would also benefit Australian students. The legislation could be drafted to apply to all students and institutions, not just international ones. Also the government could bring forward its proposed "My University" website, to supply better information on universities to all students and expand it to include the vocational sector for information on TAFEs and commercial training organisations. Rather than setting up complex and expensive state based services for international students, the Commonwealth could fund services available online for all students. I have set my ANU web design students an assignment question asking them to looking at the implications of building a web based system for providing information about courses. I thought this appropriate as they are the customers of such a system. More in my blog at: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 12 09:24:04 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:24:04 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Overinvestment in green tech? Message-ID: <4B996D84.4070407@ramin.com.au> > The usual assumption is that people should avoid speculative investment bubbles, since they're bound to lose money. But Ethernet Inventor Bob Metcalfe, who is now a venture capitalist at Polaris Ventures, argues that bubbles and even "boondoggles" are an important "source of innovation." The role of government is central to the discussion of investment bubbles in energy because power and fuel markets are far more regulated than the Internet. Also, governments around the world, in general, seek policies that encourage domestic and clean sources of energy. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 12 09:27:03 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:27:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] apps4nsw Message-ID: <4B996E37.6050400@ramin.com.au> apps4nsw is a public competition to foster and promote the development of innovative digital applications and web services using public sector data relating to New South Wales. Individuals and groups can compete for a share in the total prize pool of $100, 000 ! This generous prize is jointly funded by the Department of Services, Technology and Administration and Industry and Investment NSW. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From brd at iimetro.com.au Fri Mar 12 10:26:48 2010 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:26:48 +0800 Subject: [LINK] =?utf-8?q?Federal_Government=E2=80=99s_data_centre_strateg?= =?utf-8?q?y?= Message-ID: <2686.1268350008@iimetro.com.au> Cebit Conference, Sydney 22-23 March 2010 http://na-d.marketo.com/lp/hannoverfairs/datacentres-120310.html The Minister for Finance and Deregulation will use this platform to launch the Federal Government?s data centre strategy, which has already drawn a huge amount of media attention. -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd at iimetro.com.au From brd at iimetro.com.au Fri Mar 12 10:32:02 2010 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:32:02 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Australia on internet censorship threat list Message-ID: <26521.1268350322@iimetro.com.au> Australia on internet censorship threat list AFP March 12, 2010 8:56AM http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/australia-on-internet-censorship-threat-list/story-e6frgakx-1225839858395 A top media rights watchdog has listed Australia along with Iran and North Korea in a report on countries that pose a threat of internet censorship. Paris-based Reporters Without Bordersput Australia and South Korea on its list of countries "under surveillance" in its "Internet Enemies" report (rsf.org/ennemis.html). Australia was listed for its government's plan to block access to websites featuring material such as rape, drug use, bestiality and child sex abuse. Critics say the plan is a misguided measure that will harm civil liberties. In South Korea, the RSF report added, "draconian laws are creating too many specific restrictions on web users by challenging their anonymity and promoting self-censorship". "These countries are worrying us because they have measures that could have repercussions for freedom of expression on the internet," RSF secretary general Jean-Francois Julliard said. Russia and Turkey were also added to the watchlist, which is a category below RSF's top "Enemies of the internet'', the countries it considers the 12 worst web freedom violators. These include Saudi Arabia, Burma, China, North Korea, Iran and Vietnam. "The world's largest netizen prison is in China, which is far out ahead of other countries with 72 detainees, followed by Vietnam and then by Iran, which have all launched waves of brutal attacks on websites in recent months," RSF's report said. A senior manager of US internet giant Google, David Drummond, said there was an "alarming trend'' of government interference in online freedom, not only in countries that are judged to have poor human rights records. He cited Australia's plans as an example, saying that there ``the wide scope of content prohibited could include socially and politically controversial material''. The Australian case "is an example of where these benign intentions can result in the spectre of true censorship'', he added. "Here in Europe, even in France, at this very moment, some are tempted by this slippery path of network filtering.'' -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd at iimetro.com.au From brd at iimetro.com.au Fri Mar 12 10:34:17 2010 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:34:17 +0800 Subject: [LINK] NEHTA 'ignored' global standards, claims medical software expert Message-ID: <35843.1268350457@iimetro.com.au> NEHTA 'ignored' global standards, claims medical software expert Karen Dearne Australian IT March 11, 2010 7:00PM http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/nehta-ignored-global-standards-claims-medical-software-expert/story-e6frgakx-1225839683836 MEDICAL software-makers say the National E-Health Transition Authority has ignored international standards for implementation of the Healthcare Identifier service, under which Medicare will assign unique identifiers to all Australians for health record-keeping purposes. Dr Vince McCauley, immediate past president of the Medical Software Industry Association, says NEHTA has "implemented basic web standards but the higher level application standards that are available internationally have not been implemented". "There are particular standards applicable to healthcare identifiers both in terms of their structure and how they are allocated and accessed," he told a Senate inquiry into the federal government's Healthcare Identifiers Bill. "NEHTA has, to a point, used the international standards for the structure of the identifiers, and where that is not entirely the case we (MSIA) have through negotiation been able to reach a point where they are compatible. "However they have chosen to ignore the international standards for implementation of the service. They have basically made that up." Dr McCauley said the industry was only provided with "a basic list of functions to be implemented" a week ago, and had not yet reviewed the list in any detail. But non-compliance with international standards has enormous ramifications for software developers, locally and overseas. For instance, the nation's largest health software company, iSoft, which earns most of its revenues in overseas markets, will be obliged to implement NEHTA's requirements as a one-off. "Because they are unable to amortise these development costs across their whole business, the cost to the local market will be significantly higher," Dr McCauley said. "(Non-standard) requirements will act as a barrier not only to the export of Australian software (because international standards are not met), but also prevent us bringing in competitive software from overseas. We believe strongly in a competitive environment producing better outcomes." Dr McCauley said the MSIA was concerned that NEHTA's structure - a private corporation owned jointly by federal and state governments - meant it was focused on the state-based hospitals, rather than the private sector which delivers two-thirds of the nation's healthcare. "I believe the public hospital sector is actually where the need for identifiers is least, because they already have state identifiers," he said. "Most of the patients are well known in public hospitals - the so-called frequent fliers - many of them are regular attendees. "It is in the private sector where we are not able to have identifiers of that nature (under current privacy laws). "We do not have an identifier program where the national identifier would benefit patient care most." Dr McCauley said MSIA members were "100 per cent in support" of the proposed legislation and the HI program, although there were concerns about NEHTA's handling of the rollout. MSIA president Geoffrey Sayer said the industry agreed on the "urgency argument". "Marketplace competitors who usually do not get on agree that unique identifiers are the most significant thing that is going to happen to improve health through the better management of health information," he said. "Given the scenario where we know there are going to be tangible benefits, why would you wait?" But not one product in the market has the capacity to work with the HI service when it is supposed to commence operation on July 1, because NEHTA had not released the technical specifications. "We do not have the software today," Dr Sayer said. However, the provision of a unique number that helps a clinician care for their patients is a vital first step. "The broader e-health agenda gets much more complicated when you start talking about decision support systems, shared e-health records on the net, sharing of images, remote access and telemedicine," he said. "All that debate has been going on for well over a decade, and nothing has been achieved. You will get tangible results today if you sort out a better way of matching patients' data that patients are already sharing with their healthcare providers." -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd at iimetro.com.au From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Fri Mar 12 10:37:32 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:37:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Pirate Party/Multilingualism Message-ID: <8kgklc$156lbo@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> from: Fwd: APO Weekly Briefing - 11 March 2010 >----- >OK, COMPUTER: FILE SHARING, THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, AND WHY WE NEED THE >PIRATE PARTY >http://www.apo.org.au/research/ok-computer-file-sharing-music-industry-and-why-we-need-pirate-party > >Adrian Cosstick | PLATFORM: Journal of Media and Communication >05 March, 2010 | This essay examines the central issues raised by >illegal file sharing and the future for record companies in an >environment that increasingly demands flexibility. >----- >36 MILLION LANGUAGE PAIRS: GENERATIVE MULTILINGUALISM IN >DIGITALLY-ENABLED SOCIETIES >http://www.apo.org.au/research/36-million-language-pairs-generative-multilingualism-digitally-enabled-societies > >Thomas Petzold | ARC Centre of Excellence for Creative Industries >and Innovation >05 March, 2010 | This essay is based on a study that explores the >relationships among multilingualism, technological change and the >generation of novelty. >----- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 12 12:39:35 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:39:35 +1100 Subject: [LINK] EPIC: "Buzz violated Google's own privacy policy for Gmail" Message-ID: ======================================================================= E P I C A l e r t ======================================================================= Volume 17.05 March 11, 2010 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================= [4] EPIC Files Amended Complaint on Google Buzz ======================================================================= EPIC has filed a supplement to its earlier complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, urging the FTC to investigate Google Buzz. EPIC's original complaint cited clear harms to service subscribers, and alleged that the change in business practices "violated user expectations, diminished user privacy, contradicted Google's privacy policy, and may have violated federal wiretap laws." The FTC sent a letter to EPIC regarding the February 2010 EPIC complaint. In the letter, the Bureau of Consumer Protection Director states that the complaint "raises interesting issues that relate to consumer expectations about the collection and use of their data." Further, the FTC Director highlighted the importance of having consumers "understand how their data will be used" and allowing consumers the "opportunity to exercise meaningful control over such uses." EPIC's amended complaint, which was filed a few days after receiving the FTC's letter, describes how Google Buzz violated Google's own privacy policy for Gmail. EPIC states, "In whole and in part, the Gmail Privacy Notice describes the collection and use of personal data for the purpose of providing the Gmail email service." Creating Google Buzz, a social networking tool, within this email service constitutes a "clear contradiction between the Gmail policy in place at the time Buzz was released and the use of Gmail account information by Google for the Buzz service..." EPIC urged the FTC to investigate Google's practices, compel Google to make Google Buzz an opt-in service, and compel Google to cease using Gmail users' private address book contacts to compile their Buzz social networking lists. EPIC's Amended Complaint in In re Google Buzz http://www.epic.org/redirect/031110googlebuzzcomp.html EPIC's original complaint in In re Google Buzz http://epic.org/privacy/ftc/googlebuzz/GoogleBuzz_Complaint.pdf Letter from FTC to EPIC regarding Google Buzz complaint http://www.epic.org/redirect/031110ftcletter.html EPIC: In re Google Buzz http://epic.org/privacy/ftc/googlebuzz ======================================================================= _______________________________________________ EPIC_news mailing list EPIC_news at mailman.epic.org http://mailinglists.epic.org/mailman/listinfo/epic_news -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 12 12:42:54 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:42:54 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Facebook Levied Damages, But Makes Another Ugly Play Message-ID: ======================================================================= E P I C A l e r t ======================================================================= Volume 17.05 March 11, 2010 ======================================================================= Judge Waits to Decide on Proposed Settlement in Facebook Privacy Case Following a hearing last week, U.S. District Court Judge Seeborg reserved decision about the approval of Facebook's proposed 9.5 million dollar settlement in a case involving Facebook Beacon. According to the settlement terms, Facebook would contribute about $6 million to the establishment of a privacy organization. Facebook, however, would maintain control over this organization, as Facebook's top lobbyist would become co-President and all significant decisions would require a unanimous vote. EPIC and several other privacy organizations, including the Consumer Federation of America and the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, have written a letter to Judge Seeborg, ask him to reject the settlement as proposed Facebook Beacon Settlement Terms http://www.beaconclasssettlement.com/Files/SettlementAgreement.pdf Facebook's Proposed Bylaws for the Privacy Foundation http://www.beaconclasssettlement.com/Files/ByLawAndFormation.pdf EPIC: Letter to Judge Seeborg regarding Facebook Beacon Settlement http://epic.org/privacy/facebook/EPIC_Beacon_Letter.pdf EPIC: Facebook Privacy http://epic.org/privacy/facebook/ ======================================================================= -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 12 15:22:20 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:22:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Email still an important - if not the most important social networking medium... Message-ID: <4B99C17C.1000806@ramin.com.au> Ofcourse...linkers probably already knew this: > Active social networkers are more likely to be avid email users, as measured by time spent with social email as well as number of times checked daily. Forty-two percent of social networkers check their email account four or more times a day, compared to just 27% of their non-networked counterparts. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au Fri Mar 12 16:03:02 2010 From: tony at tony-barry.emu.id.au (Antony Barry) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:03:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: MR31-10: Re-scan may be required to receive Sydney community television in digital [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] References: <08532190012683629463606@subscribedmailings.com> Message-ID: <617E81DC-5F66-42D0-B1C4-B0B2E04E63D3@tony-barry.emu.id.au> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Australian Communications & Media Authority" > Date: 12 March 2010 2:02:26 PM AEDT > To: > Subject: MR31-10: Re-scan may be required to receive Sydney community television in digital [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] > Reply-To: media at acma.gov.au > > Sydney viewers may need to perform a rescan on their digital TV or set-top box to receive the latest addition to the suite of digital channels in Sydney, community television service TVS on channel 44. This is because not all digital receivers automatically detect the arrival of a new channel. > > TVS and the ACMA are working together to raise consumer awareness of the issue and provide advice on how and when to rescan. ?Many receivers will require a ?rescan? or ?retune? every time a new channel is launched,? said ACMA Chairman, Chris Chapman. ?This is not a situation that relates only to TVS?it occurs whenever a new digital channel commences in any market.? > > Manual rescanning of digital services is usually done through the menu button on the remote control of a digital television or set top box. Usually the option of rescanning is available in the ?set-up? menu. Once viewers have accessed this menu they should choose 'rescan', 'store channels', 'retune' or 'replace' and allow the set to automatically identify digital services. A rescan will identify and remember all the digital services that a television is able to receive. > > In some cases re-scanning may still not provide access to TVS. This may be because the home is not within the TVS coverage area. TVS is only available from the Gore Hill transmission site so antennas pointing to other sites such as Kings Cross or North Head, may not receive the TVS digital signal. > > ?Generally speaking, if you can receive TVS via your analog TV you should be able to pick us up on your digital receiver,? said TVS Chief Executive, Laurie Patton. > > Other issues that may affect the ability to receive a digital signal include the quality of the external antenna and the cabling between the antenna outlet and the receiver. > > TVS (Television Sydney) is a not-for-profit community television channel. Since it launched in February 2006, TVS has provided an analog service on UHF channel 31 and was the first new permanent free-to-air television channel in Sydney in more than twenty-five years. > > TVS launched its digital service on channel 44 from 1 March 2010, leading the way to digital television for community broadcasters. TVS will ?simulcast? in both digital and analog from 2010 until the switch-off of all of Sydney's analog channels in 2013. > > TVS is committed to providing an outlet for programs for all the communities of Sydney with an aim to maximise content developed in Sydney. > > For more information please contact: > > Ian Sneddon > TVS Operations Manager > > Telephone: (02) 9852 5000 > > Website: www.tvs.org.au/ > > or > > David Brumfield > Executive Manager, Allocation Coordination and Policy > ACMA Digital Transition Division > > Telephone: (02) 6219 5391 > Website: www.acma.gov.au From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Fri Mar 12 16:39:18 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:39:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Conroy delays bill to rein in telemarketers' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B99D386.1020809@hunterlink.net.au> On 12/03/2010 8:45 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: > [Conroy's chickened out on extending the Register. ... > > ... > Conroy delays bill to rein in telemarketers > NINA HENDY > The Sydney Morning Herald (Business Section) > March 12, 2010 > http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/conroy-delays-bill-to-rein-in-telemarketers-20100311-q1oe.html > ... > The reprieve comes after strong opposition from the advertising, > marketing and telecommunications industries, which argued that the > proposed extension of the register would restrict legitimate > telemarketing. > ... *Legitimate* telemarketing? -- David Boxall | Dogs look up to us | And cats look down on us http://david.boxall.id.au | But pigs treat us as equals --Winston Churchill From fpilcher at netspeed.com.au Fri Mar 12 21:01:11 2010 From: fpilcher at netspeed.com.au (Fred Pilcher) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:01:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The Program In-Reply-To: <20100311143355.515017A8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100311143355.515017A8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4B9A10E7.9040105@netspeed.com.au> stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > Hi all, > > http://www.theprogram.com.au > > Welcome to The Program (Beta version) Now that looks like a pretty good idea! It'll be interesting to see how it develops. As an old muso just starting to get back into solo performance after [mumble] years, I have a vested interest. Fred From marty at supine.com Sat Mar 13 01:00:36 2010 From: marty at supine.com (Martin Barry) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:00:36 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Conroy delays bill to rein in telemarketers' In-Reply-To: <4B99D386.1020809@hunterlink.net.au> References: <4B99D386.1020809@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: <20100312140036.GA25378@tigger.mamista.net> $quoted_author = "David Boxall" ; > > *Legitimate* telemarketing? Cold calling is dead! Long live cold calling! cheers Marty [Puts away his wishful thinking hat for another year] From fpilcher at netspeed.com.au Sat Mar 13 08:23:32 2010 From: fpilcher at netspeed.com.au (Fred Pilcher) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:23:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Conroy delays bill to rein in telemarketers' In-Reply-To: <4B99D386.1020809@hunterlink.net.au> References: <4B99D386.1020809@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: <4B9AB0D4.7090404@netspeed.com.au> David Boxall wrote: > *Legitimate* telemarketing? We have a new oxymoron! From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Sat Mar 13 09:40:38 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:40:38 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Conroy delays bill to rein in telemarketers' In-Reply-To: <20100312140036.GA25378@tigger.mamista.net> References: <4B99D386.1020809@hunterlink.net.au> <20100312140036.GA25378@tigger.mamista.net> Message-ID: <8heh0f$1umrk3@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 01:00 AM 13/03/2010, Martin Barry you wrote: > > *Legitimate* telemarketing? > >Cold calling is dead! Long live cold calling! > >cheers >Marty >[Puts away his wishful thinking hat for another year] Tony Abbott: "The term Work Choices is dead." - Long live Work Choices! ;-) Ain't semantics wunnerful? Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From stephen at melbpc.org.au Sun Mar 14 01:10:46 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:10:46 GMT Subject: [LINK] SkyDrive and/or Live Sync? Message-ID: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Anybody have any good/bad experiences with Windows SkyDrive or Live Sync? -- Microsoft?s Free Sync Service by David Pogue http://www.nytimes.com March 11, 2010, 3:42 pm Last week, I wrote about an underpublicized gem in Microsoft?s Windows Live suite of free online and offline services and programs: SkyDrive. It?s a free, 25-gigabyte virtual hard drive on the Internet, accessible from any computer. My readers gently pointed out that I managed to miss an equally spectacular feature: Windows Live Sync. It?s another very good, very free Windows Live service, for Mac and Windows, that everyone should know about. The problem: you have a work machine and a home machine. Or a desktop PC and a laptop that?s frequently out of the house. Or a family. Or a small business. In any case, you find yourself having to copy certain important files back and forth after each trip: when you return home with your laptop, when you get to the office after doing work at home over the weekend, and so on. The solution: Windows Live Sync. You designate one folder on Computer A, and another folder on Computer B. Then Sync keeps them synced with each other, magically, over the Internet, with no effort on your part. Add, change, or delete a file on your laptop; you?ll find it added, changed, or deleted on your desktop. Edit some chapters or spreadsheets on your Mac at home; you?ll find them edited the same way at work. There are plenty of services like this online-SugarSync, for example-but they?re not free. I?d venture that they?re not even as simple. Here?s how to set it up. Suppose, in this example, that you have a PC at work and a Mac at home. Suppose, furthermore, that you?ve already signed up for a free Windows Live account (www.live.com). On each computer, visit https://sync.live.com/clientdownload.aspx. Download and install the little Live Sync app. It puts a tiny Sync icon on your menu bar (Mac) or system tray (PC). Now sit at the PC and sign into the Sync Web site (http://sync.live.com). Click ?Create a personal folder.? Navigate to the folder on your hard drive that you want to sync; select it by opening it, right there on the Sync Web page, and then clicking ?Sync folder here.? (You can also create a new folder at this point.) You?re shown a list of the computers on which you?ve installed the Sync program (and that are turned on and online). Click the one you want this folder to sync with, and then, on the ?Select a folder? screen, specify which folder on the Mac you want synced with the PC folder you chose. Finally, choose either Automatic or On-demand synchronization, and click Finish. And that is all. When you add, change, or delete anything in a synced folder on one machine, it?s automatically updated on the other, over the Internet. It?s totally great for keeping the latest versions of everything accessible at all times. And it has a lot of fans among my readers. As a handy side effect, Live Sync lets you grab files from any of your computers, from the Web site, even from folders you haven?t set up for syncing. Left the Smithers presentation at the office, and now you?re on- site at the client?s place? No problem. You?re covered. You can also make certain folders available to family members and coworkers, making the whole thing even more useful. The fine print: You can synchronize up to 20 folders, each containing up to 20,000 files, max. Files can?t be larger than 4 gigabytes each. Files can be synced with Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Macs. Microsoft recommends that you don?t sync your Outlook mail stash, because it?s an enormous file that?s constantly changing. This, by the way, isn?t even the end of the story. The next-generation Microsoft free sycning software is called Windows Live Mesh. It?s roughly the same idea, but it?s even more powerful and complicated. It creates a Web-based ?desktop? with 5 gigabytes of storage-and your Macs, PCs, smartphones, and even authorized friends can sync up to it. Details are at www.mesh.com -- Cheers, Stephen From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Sun Mar 14 10:08:34 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:08:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SkyDrive and/or Live Sync? In-Reply-To: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: At 14:10 +0000 13/3/10, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: >Anybody have any good/bad experiences with Windows SkyDrive or Live Sync? I couldn't work out whether it's a peer-to-peer synch'ing service, or whether a copy of the files is stored, or passes through, the US. Can anyone read between the lines, or more deeply, than I can? -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Sun Mar 14 10:18:57 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:18:57 +1100 Subject: [LINK] shopping website back Message-ID: <8eavh8$tl9rk@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Watchdog site set to bust shop duopoly http://www.theage.com.au/national/watchdog-site-set-to-bust-shop-duopoly-20100313-q59d.html DANIELLA MILETIC March 14, 2010 CONSUMER watchdog Choice has taken on Coles and Woolworths with a new website aimed at getting shoppers, farmers and suppliers to publicly voice their concerns about the duopoly. Choice says the initiative will force grocery prices to drop. It is not the website the federal government offered, and failed to deliver, in a pre-election promise to ease cost-of-living pressures. It is Choice's version of the controversial price-comparison website, which was scrapped by the government last year. The government said at the time it was concerned about the accuracy of the information and potential for incorrect prices being listed. Choice says it was dumped because of lack of co-operation from the two major chains. The non-profit consumer group asks shoppers to look beyond the major two supermarket chains for cheaper groceries. Consumers will notice if they visit checkoutchoice.com.au that it, too, does not offer shoppers individual prices for items at their local supermarkets or state which store is the cheapest in their area. Under a ''take action'' category, consumers are asked to join a national campaign to bring competition to the supermarket sector. They are asked if they have noticed any items on supermarket shelves being replaced by the supermarket's own home brand items. The website also calls for farmers and suppliers to tell any stories they may have about the ''ugly side of market power''. Shoppers can click on ''dob in a price scam'' when advertised pricing does not match the reality. Choice chief executive Nick Stace tells visitors to the site that in Australia over 75 per cent of all packaged groceries are sold by Woolworths and Coles. But the Australian Retailers Association, which represents Coles and Woolworths, said the sector had never been more competitive. ''The major supermarkets have worked hard to introduce more price transparency,'' chief executive Margy Osmond said. Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Sun Mar 14 10:55:51 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:55:51 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 08:30 AM 11/03/2010, Tom Worthington wrote: >> The government could announce the goal that all public hospitals would >> be networked ... > > Been there, doing that. www.nehta.gov.au > > ... this has been going on for about 10 years now, in exactly the way you suggest ... Not quite. NEHTA seems to be more like the Communications Alliance , in that it is creating standards by consensus between the parties involved. NEHTA does not appear to have the authority, nor then multi-billion dollar budget needed to implement a national system.take aprt What I had in mind was something more like NBN Co., which can select the ideas from the Communications Alliance, or elsewhere, and has the money to implement them, even if companies, or state governments, do not want to cooperate. NEHTA only has a few hundred million dollars to work with and so needs the cooperation of others. Also health bodies can choose not to cooperate with NEHTA and still get federal funding (non-cooperation may take the form of participating in order to slow progress). What I suggest would speed things up is a body with the authority and money to implement a national health network. State and private health service providers which choose to not to cooperate would receive no federal funding for health. The NHN could provide open source software and a hosted systems, for those who wanted to use them, as well as standard interfaces. The minimum a doctor, or hospital, would need to use the system would be a smart phone with a web browser. They would not need any special software or hardware. The system would also provide online training, from simple introductory materials, all the way up to accredited vocational and tertiary courses. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Sun Mar 14 11:50:10 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:50:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: At 10:55 +1100 14/3/10, Tom Worthington wrote: >What I had in mind was something more like NBN Co. ... NBNCo is an infrastructure provider, at a deep level, Layer 2+. eHealth is applications layer (5 or 7, depending which model you use). Apart from which, the idea of 'a' system, and 'a' health record, is complete nonsense. And that's what the childish minds who populate the executive offices of organisations like NEHTA mean when they use the singular 'Australian National Health Network'. They should switch their efforts away from a singular database and a singular identifier, and focus on things that would actually help us, in particular a federated architecture, inter-operability features, demonstrators, reference code, and lead examples of specific applications. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Sun Mar 14 11:51:17 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:51:17 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> At 10:55 AM 14/03/2010, Tom Worthington wrote: >Not quite. NEHTA seems to be more like the Communications Alliance >, in that it is creating standards by >consensus between the parties involved. NEHTA does not appear to have >the authority, nor then multi-billion dollar budget needed to >implement a national system.take aprt They are private company owned by COAG, not an industry alliance. They have a mulitmillion dollar budget to set the foundation as you say. The government hasn't approved the next stages for EHRs, as Nehta keeps telling us as they and government press for their legislative changes. I do NOT want health funding dependent upon participating in EHRs or such a network at all. It is NOT the primary purpose of health services. Such a network or information is a single element of a complex system of healthcare delivery. Medical services have been delivered since the beginning of the country without such a network in place. BTW, there already is incentive funding for electronic upgrades of practices and hospitals already. Can't recall the program, but it's there and has been for a few years. According to recent testimony, 98% of practices are computerised now. Some say 100%. >The NHN could provide open source software and a hosted systems, for >those who wanted to use them, as well as standard interfaces. The >minimum a doctor, or hospital, would need to use the system would be >a smart phone with a web browser. They would not need any special >software or hardware. The system would also provide online training, >from simple introductory materials, all the way up to accredited >vocational and tertiary courses. And this is not a good idea either from a security standpoint and for standards requirements. Above is a very simplistic perspective of an extremely complex problem that those of us who have been studying it for many many years consistently point out. The practice systems aren't 'just a web browser' nor should they be. They are medical record-keeping systems, prescription systems, referral systems, and based on health informatics standards for doing that. It is a specialised field, with defined messaging security and format for information exchange. Just having an agreed vocabulary is a challenge, let alone the range of data formats. I'll leave it there. I don't have time to go through this design debate for the umpteenth time. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From rick at praxis.com.au Sun Mar 14 12:18:23 2010 From: rick at praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:18:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SkyDrive and/or Live Sync? In-Reply-To: References: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4B9C395F.1070102@praxis.com.au> Roger Clarke wrote: > At 14:10 +0000 13/3/10, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: >> Anybody have any good/bad experiences with Windows SkyDrive or Live Sync? > > I couldn't work out whether it's a peer-to-peer synch'ing service, or > whether a copy of the files is stored, or passes through, the US. > > Can anyone read between the lines, or more deeply, than I can? If you trust what the evol empire says ... "Windows Live Sync Sync uses the same synchronization concept as Live Mesh, but is a peer-to-peer (P2P) service. Files you include in Sync aren?t stored in the cloud, they?re copied and updated from one PC to another. Therefore, Sync is a good option if you don?t want your files to be stored online but wish to keep them in sync among multiple PCs. Because Sync is a P2P network, you must periodically keep at least two of the PCs in your network turned on at the same time so the files can sync. As an example, I use Sync on my desktop, notebook, and mini- notebook to keep my documents and browser favorites in sync among all three PCs. I typically use my desktop and at least one of my notebooks every day, giving them the opportunity to sync with each other." BTW: ww.live.com is now www.bing.com and the Windows Live stuff is harder to find. My concern about Windows Luve and Synch: are they using rsync (GPL) technology to accomplish this and if so, is the source code available? cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Simply stated, it is sagacious to eschew obfuscation -- Norman Augustine From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Sun Mar 14 12:46:56 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:46:56 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SkyDrive and/or Live Sync? In-Reply-To: <4B9C395F.1070102@praxis.com.au> References: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4B9C395F.1070102@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: >Roger Clarke wrote: >> I couldn't work out whether it's a peer-to-peer synch'ing service, or >> whether a copy of the files is stored, or passes through, the US. >> Can anyone read between the lines, or more deeply, than I can? At 12:18 +1100 14/3/10, Rick Welykochy wrote: > >If you trust what the evol empire says ... Thanks Rick! Back in 2004, I speculated on backup as a potentially valuable application of P2P: http://www.rogerclarke.com/EC/P2POview.html#PotApp But I hadn't noticed any evidence of it being used. So, if we believe what's said, this could be an MS 'good thing'. __________________________________________________________________________ >"Windows Live Sync > > Sync uses the same synchronization concept as Live Mesh, but is a > peer-to-peer (P2P) service. Files you include in Sync aren't stored > in the cloud, they're copied and updated from one PC to another. > Therefore, Sync is a good option if you don't want your files to be > stored online but wish to keep them in sync among multiple PCs. > > Because Sync is a P2P network, you must periodically keep at least > two of the PCs in your network turned on at the same time so the files > can sync. As an example, I use Sync on my desktop, notebook, and mini- > notebook to keep my documents and browser favorites in sync among all > three PCs. I typically use my desktop and at least one of my notebooks > every day, giving them the opportunity to sync with each other." > >BTW: ww.live.com is now www.bing.com and the Windows Live stuff is harder >to find. > >My concern about Windows Luve and Synch: are they using rsync (GPL) technology >to accomplish this and if so, is the source code available? -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From steven.clark at internode.on.net Sun Mar 14 13:29:27 2010 From: steven.clark at internode.on.net (Steven Clark) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:59:27 +1030 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B9C4A07.3060503@internode.on.net> On 14/03/2010 11:21 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 10:55 AM 14/03/2010, Tom Worthington wrote: > > >> Not quite. NEHTA seems to be more like the Communications Alliance >> , in that it is creating standards by >> consensus between the parties involved. NEHTA does not appear to have >> the authority, nor then multi-billion dollar budget needed to >> implement a national system.take aprt >> > They are private company owned by COAG, not an industry alliance. > They have a mulitmillion dollar budget to set the foundation as you > say. The government hasn't approved the next stages for EHRs, as > Nehta keeps telling us as they and government press for their > legislative changes. > > I do NOT want health funding dependent upon participating in EHRs or > such a network at all. It is NOT the primary purpose of health > services. Such a network or information is a single element of a > complex system of healthcare delivery. Medical services have been > delivered since the beginning of the country without such a network in place. > Indeed. Such a requirement would stall the whole thing at implementation ... Concerns about ownership of records, (self-)censorship of notes, availability when parts of the system fail, cost of implementation and maintenance at the health care delivery end ... > BTW, there already is incentive funding for electronic upgrades of > practices and hospitals already. Can't recall the program, but it's > there and has been for a few years. According to recent testimony, > 98% of practices are computerised now. Some say 100%. > My local GP has five computers in his practice: and he's a sole practitioner. If he were in legal practice, he'd probably get away with 2-3 machines (and a similar reduction in support staff.) The computer is a boon for bureaucrats. And most of what I've seen of this, and other, systems proposed and put in place by governments, it's about making the bureaucrats job easier, not the end users. Health care providers hardly need *more* burdens put on their capacity to deliver - and not just in hospitals. >> The NHN could provide open source software and a hosted systems, for >> those who wanted to use them, as well as standard interfaces. The >> minimum a doctor, or hospital, would need to use the system would be >> a smart phone with a web browser. They would not need any special >> software or hardware. The system would also provide online training, from simple introductory materials, all the way up to accredited vocational and tertiary courses. >> > And this is not a good idea either from a security standpoint and for > standards requirements. Above is a very simplistic perspective of an > extremely complex problem that those of us who have been studying it > for many many years consistently point out. The privacy issues are legion as well - not only are individual patient records involved, but health practitioner's as well. The chilling effect on note-making when they *might* be read by a third party should not be underestimated. What you commit to a record is very different if you think someone else might read it: not only do you write them differently, but *what* you write and *how* your write it changes as well. The capacity for professional notes to be a learning mechanism, for example, is huge - but only if a practitioner is free to write notes *for* themselves. If someone is looking over your shoulder, you will be far less speculative, far less self-critical. > The practice systems aren't 'just a web browser' nor should they be. They are medical record-keeping systems, prescription systems, referral systems, and based on health informatics standards for doing that. It is a > specialised field, with defined messaging security and format for > information exchange. Just having an agreed vocabulary is a > challenge, let alone the range of data formats. > Oy vey. > I'll leave it there. I don't have time to go through this design > debate for the umpteenth time. > As Prof Graham Greenleaf has recently commented, this proposed system looks a whole lot like the shelved identity card systems - a system for collecting together information about individuals as much as it might be one for improving the accessibility and availability of healthcare records. -- Steven R Clark, BSc(Hons) LLB/LP(Hons) /Flinders/, MACS, Barrister and Solicitor PhD Candidate, School of Commerce, City West Campus, University of South Australia /Finding a Balance between Privacy and National Security in Australia's ePassport System/ QUIS?CUSTODIET?IPSOS?CUSTODES From kim at holburn.net Sun Mar 14 15:27:43 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:27:43 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SkyDrive and/or Live Sync? In-Reply-To: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <8F92BFD8-3C01-4CDB-909D-A82310CF83AB@holburn.net> Hmmm... I have tried dropbox. Mainly because someone wanted to send me some files. You can synchronise between Windows, Mac and Linux. You can encrypt the files. You can share with other people with a bunch of permissions. It's free for a few gigs. You can turn it on and off. On 2010/Mar/14, at 1:10 AM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > Anybody have any good/bad experiences with Windows SkyDrive or Live > Sync? > > -- > Microsoft?s Free Sync Service > > by David Pogue http://www.nytimes.com March 11, 2010, 3:42 pm > > src=me&ref=technology> > > > Last week, I wrote about an underpublicized gem in Microsoft?s Windows > Live suite of free online and offline services and programs: SkyDrive. > > It?s a free, 25-gigabyte virtual hard drive on the Internet, > accessible > from any computer. > > My readers gently pointed out that I managed to miss an equally > spectacular feature: Windows Live Sync. > > It?s another very good, very free Windows Live service, for Mac and > Windows, that everyone should know about. > > The problem: you have a work machine and a home machine. Or a > desktop PC > and a laptop that?s frequently out of the house. Or a family. Or a > small > business. > > In any case, you find yourself having to copy certain important files > back and forth after each trip: when you return home with your laptop, > when you get to the office after doing work at home over the > weekend, and > so on. > > The solution: Windows Live Sync. You designate one folder on > Computer A, > and another folder on Computer B. Then Sync keeps them synced with > each > other, magically, over the Internet, with no effort on your part. Add, > change, or delete a file on your laptop; you?ll find it added, > changed, > or deleted on your desktop. Edit some chapters or spreadsheets on your > Mac at home; you?ll find them edited the same way at work. > > There are plenty of services like this online-SugarSync, for example- > but > they?re not free. I?d venture that they?re not even as simple. > > Here?s how to set it up. Suppose, in this example, that you have a > PC at > work and a Mac at home. Suppose, furthermore, that you?ve already > signed > up for a free Windows Live account (www.live.com). > > On each computer, visit https://sync.live.com/clientdownload.aspx. > Download and install the little Live Sync app. It puts a tiny Sync > icon > on your menu bar (Mac) or system tray (PC). > > Now sit at the PC and sign into the Sync Web site (http://sync.live.com > ). > Click ?Create a personal folder.? Navigate to the folder on your hard > drive that you want to sync; select it by opening it, right there on > the > Sync Web page, and then clicking ?Sync folder here.? (You can also > create > a new folder at this point.) > > You?re shown a list of the computers on which you?ve installed the > Sync > program (and that are turned on and online). Click the one you want > this > folder to sync with, and then, on the ?Select a folder? screen, > specify > which folder on the Mac you want synced with the PC folder you chose. > Finally, choose either Automatic or On-demand synchronization, and > click > Finish. > > And that is all. When you add, change, or delete anything in a synced > folder on one machine, it?s automatically updated on the other, over > the > Internet. It?s totally great for keeping the latest versions of > everything accessible at all times. And it has a lot of fans among my > readers. > > As a handy side effect, Live Sync lets you grab files from any of your > computers, from the Web site, even from folders you haven?t set up for > syncing. Left the Smithers presentation at the office, and now > you?re on- > site at the client?s place? No problem. You?re covered. > > You can also make certain folders available to family members and > coworkers, making the whole thing even more useful. > > The fine print: You can synchronize up to 20 folders, each > containing up > to 20,000 files, max. Files can?t be larger than 4 gigabytes each. > Files > can be synced with Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Macs. > > Microsoft recommends that you don?t sync your Outlook mail stash, > because > it?s an enormous file that?s constantly changing. > > This, by the way, isn?t even the end of the story. The next-generation > Microsoft free sycning software is called Windows Live Mesh. It?s > roughly > the same idea, but it?s even more powerful and complicated. It > creates a > Web-based ?desktop? with 5 gigabytes of storage-and your Macs, PCs, > smartphones, and even authorized friends can sync up to it. > > Details are at www.mesh.com > > -- > > Cheers, > Stephen > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From brd at iimetro.com.au Sun Mar 14 17:01:37 2010 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:01:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> There's an interesting podcast from the ABC's Rear Vision on Hospital Reform this week. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/rearvision/stories/2010/2834416.htm > *Robin Gauld:* I spent some time in the US last year. I was there for > almost 12 months on a Commonwealth Fund Harkness Fellowship, and there > are some not-for-profit private healthcare systems in the [United] > States that work really, really well. And so these will be systems > which care for maybe a couple of million patients in a geographical > area. Of course it's funded by health insurance so the patients will > come with various different forms of funding when they go to see their > GP or hospital or whatever. But the system will consist of Head > Office, and then maybe a cluster of hospitals, and then a number of > primary care physicians and so forth working across a region. > > Now some of the really, really good ones have decided that information > technology is the heart of improving the health care system, that > without good information technology and infrastructure for the > transfer of accurate and swift information, then you're not going to > be able to get the improvements happening. And so they have electronic > patient records which are universally accessible across the region to > any health care provider who's a part of that system. They tend to > have very, very strong clinical leadership, and so they'll be led by a > doctor by and large, and that will be a practising doctor, not someone > who's a full-time bureaucrat as such, or manager, but it will be a > doctor who probably practises a half-day a week, then they spend the > rest of their time in their sort of managerial, clinical leadership role. > > They will also have a very, very strong medical and nursing and other > allied practitioner representation at the board table and at the > highest management levels and then throughout the organisation. > The wheel has been invented. The problem is that our public service bureaucrats aren't as interested in health outcomes as they are in health funding. Question: why should a health authority be paid for the number of sick people they treat, rather than the number of people (healthy and sick) they support? They have no incentive to keep people healthy. In fact they are incented to let people get sick. -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd at iimetro.com.au From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Mar 15 08:24:15 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:24:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <4B903DB5.2000907@ramin.com.au> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <4B903DB5.2000907@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9D53FF.7020104@tomw.net.au> Marghanita da Cruz wrote: > Tom Worthington wrote: > >> ... multimedia e-book format, using HTML 5 ... > > ... print function of the browser. This could possibly encourage more > people to use HTML in preference to Word/PDF. ... Yes, an add-on for a web browser to turn a set of web pages into an ebook should be much simpler than PDF production. The application just has to make any adjustments to the markup to conform to the web version the ebook uses, create some XML metadata and Zip it all up. This is not that much different to some of the addons available for web browsers already. Of course if the original web pages are not well designed the resulting ebook is not going to work well. As an example, documents might not adjust to different size screens well. Excessive use of Javascript and "Web 2.0" would be a problem, as ebooks are relatively static. > Though the real problem is that the media formats are not going to be > compatible with all browsers/readers ... Assuming that accessibility design principles are followed with the original web pages, that should be less of an issue. If a particular audio or video can't be played, the reader should be able to get a text description which at least tells them what they are missing. They can the decide if they want to go to the trouble of getting a plug-in to play it. YouTube have announced automatic transcriptions of audio in English, which might help, if it works. I submitted videos but got "Machine Transcription (Failed)". -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From - Wed From ivan at itrundle.com Mon Mar 15 09:15:08 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:15:08 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <4B9D53FF.7020104@tomw.net.au> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <4B903DB5.2000907@ramin.com.au> <4B9D53FF.7020104@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <1EF94887-AE0F-408D-BF54-FEFFA705292B@itrundle.com> On 15/03/2010, at 8:24 AM, Tom Worthington wrote: > YouTube have announced automatic transcriptions of audio in English, > which might help, if it works. It doesn't (see my earlier post). Most certainly beta, if not alpha. The results at present are good to play at drunken parties, but that's about it. iT -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Mon Mar 15 09:51:55 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:51:55 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SkyDrive and/or Live Sync? In-Reply-To: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100313141046.B86A285C@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: G'day Stephen At 14:10 +0000 13/3/10, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: >Anybody have any good/bad experiences with Windows SkyDrive or Live Sync? >>Roger Clarke wrote: >>I couldn't work out whether it's a peer-to-peer synch'ing service, >>or whether a copy of the files is stored, or passes through, the US. I checked with a contact inside MS. He said: >Afraid I don't know the details of LiveSync >What I would find very useful if you find the official avenues (e.g. >the >recommended >forum >or an inquiry via the web form https://support.microsoft.com/contactus/emailcontact.aspx?scid=sw;en;1310&ws=1prcen) don't produce timely relevant answers - let me know (impolitic to go mystery shopping myself) If you ask them, let me know whether you get any useful info. Regards ... Roger -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From marghanita at ramin.com.au Mon Mar 15 09:55:00 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:55:00 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > Question: why should a health authority be paid for the number of sick > people they treat, rather than the number of people (healthy and sick) > they support? They have no incentive to keep people healthy. In fact > they are incented to let people get sick. > While it is called a Health network, what we are really talking about is acute medical care. If you want your records to be private, then I would guess you can go to the doctor/hospital pay the full amount and not expect a rebate from Medicare. As a community we need to monitor the cost of medical services and the economic/social costs of poor health and put in programs to improve the health of the community generally - through better nutrition, exercise, OH&S, reducing car accidents, alcohol and smoking related health issues etc and better hospital care outcomes. One battleground is midwife managed homebirths - NZ has medicare/hospital supported Homebirths. Whereas homebirths in Australia are not permitted under medicare or supported by the hospital/medical people. Interesting public information campaign from the whitehouse: > 41 -- that?s the number of leading economists -- including three Nobel Prize winners -- who sent a letter to President Obama and Congress yesterday urging the swift passage of comprehensive health insurance reform to curb skyrocketing health care costs. [Source] 41 -- is also the percentage of adults under the age of 65 who accumulated medical debt, had difficulty paying medical bills, or struggled with both during a recent one year period. [Source] > 625 ? That?s the number of people who lost their health insurance EVERY HOUR in 2009 > 8 -- The number of people every minute who are denied coverage, charged a higher rate, or otherwise discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Mon Mar 15 10:30:01 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:30:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <8fplq0$3pt3cf@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> At 09:55 AM 15/03/2010, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >As a community we need to monitor the cost of medical >services and the economic/social costs of poor health and >put in programs to improve the health of the community >generally - through better nutrition, exercise, OH&S, >reducing car accidents, alcohol and smoking related health >issues etc and better hospital care outcomes. And there are a variety of ways to accomplish that objective without a complete set of records of every citizen's health problems. It's called sampling research. The only reason for a complete record that is identifiable to a person is for longitudinal studies. And even that should have blind indexes of the individuals involved to avoid researcher contamination of the results through that knowledge. Population studies does NOT mean the 'whole' population. It is a research term of the level of perspective. This is not an all or nothing process. And there is some confusion about life style choices and the real effects on an individual's health status. I surprise my doctor every time I walk in and he starts by telling me how he's going to make me well, only to discover after my blood tests that I'm probably healthier than he is, despite my lifestyle choices. If I'm the lucky one who doesn't use the health system much, which I don't, why should I have to pay full costs because of those choices and NOT wanting my records held in Canberra? Don't I pay my taxes like everyone else? Answer: yes. I have no choice because of the GST method of taking them: 10% of nearly every dollar I spend. I think that's fair, don't you? Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From swilson at lockstep.com.au Mon Mar 15 10:50:47 2010 From: swilson at lockstep.com.au (Stephen Wilson) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:50:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture [was: Building the Australian National Health Network] In-Reply-To: <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> Marghanita da Cruz wrote: > If you want your records to be private, then I would guess > you can go to the doctor/hospital pay the full amount and > not expect a rebate from Medicare. That method works when Medicare is only involved in paying. But the new paradigm where Medicare operates the IHI service (and in time, maybe the IEHR as well?) has them involved in all clinical events where the IHI is looked up and extracted, or verified. If patients want to avail themselves of the IHI (and for the sake of argument, let's assume that patient identification is a good thing) then they cannot avoid having Medicare involved in the interaction. My real beef is not actually with Medicare, it's with the centralised IHI architecture arrived at by NEHTA. Whomever operates a centralised IHI directory, I think the structural privacy problem is that this architecture centralises IHI resolution and creates needless event logs. Why should *anyone* know about my consultation with a family planning clinic, ER, drug & alcohol service or mental health service, apart from me and my clinician, and secondarily, other clinicians that I have consented to be involved? Cheers, Steve. Stephen Wilson Managing Director Lockstep Group Phone +61 (0)414 488 851 www.lockstep.com.au Lockstep Consulting provides independent specialist advice and analysis on digital identity and privacy. Lockstep Technologies develops unique new smart ID solutions that enhance privacy and prevent identity theft. From marghanita at ramin.com.au Mon Mar 15 13:51:32 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:51:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture [was: Building the Australian National Health Network] In-Reply-To: <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> Stephen Wilson wrote: > My real beef is not actually with Medicare, it's with the centralised > IHI architecture arrived at by NEHTA. Whomever operates a centralised > IHI directory, I think the structural privacy problem is that this > architecture centralises IHI resolution and creates needless event > logs. Why should *anyone* know about my consultation with a family > planning clinic, ER, drug & alcohol service or mental health service, > apart from me and my clinician, and secondarily, other clinicians that I > have consented to be involved? Are you speculating or do you have concrete counter examples - to disprove the proposed model? For those not up on the TLAs, From > How will the IHI improve healthcare communication? > A: There are four key areas where the use of IHIs to support the safe and secure electronic > exchange of information will deliver immediate benefits for you and your family: > Discharge summaries ? When a patient leaves hospital, and information about ongoing care > is communicated to their healthcare provider/s, the provider will be able to more accurately > match the information to the correct patient. > Pathology Tests ? When a patient?s tests results are sent to their healthcare provider/s, > the provider will be able to more accurately match the test results to the correct patient > record. > Prescriptions ? Pharmacists can be more confident when receiving electronically lodged > scripts that the script is matched to the correct patient, resulting in safer dispensing of > medications. > Referrals ? When patient records and case histories are communicated between the referring > healthcare provider and a specialist, the specialist can more efficiently check they have the > correct information for the correct patient. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From swilson at lockstep.com.au Mon Mar 15 15:22:39 2010 From: swilson at lockstep.com.au (Stephen Wilson) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:22:39 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> Marghanita da Cruz wrote: > Stephen Wilson wrote: > >> My real beef is not actually with Medicare, it's with the centralised >> IHI architecture arrived at by NEHTA. Whomever operates a >> centralised IHI directory, I think the structural privacy problem is >> that this architecture centralises IHI resolution and creates >> needless event logs. Why should *anyone* know about my consultation >> with a family planning clinic, ER, drug & alcohol service or mental >> health service, apart from me and my clinician, and secondarily, >> other clinicians that I have consented to be involved? > > > Are you speculating or do you have concrete counter examples - to > disprove the proposed model? Concrete examples of the exposure of information about consults? Sure, it's in the legislation. As APF pointed out, the legislation only includes one use case: when a healthcare provider needs to access a patient's IHI. The only way to do this contemplated by the legislation is that for the provider to send identifying information about the patient to the IHI service, which then serves up the IHI. It is not expected that the patient will ever disclose their IHI direct; indeed, NEHTA testimony to the senate committee was repeatedly to the effect that there is no need for patients to know their own IHI. Therefore, the first time I present at a clinic, a provider or administrator will send a request to the IHI service for my identifier (once they have the IHI, and have injected it into their own local systems, it seems unnecessary to request it againe). Not explicit in the legislation but surely essential is that the clinic will also have to authenticate itself to the IHI service, revealing the name of the facility and, I guess, the name of the person requesting the identifier. So ... the IHI service will have a detailed event log of almost every initial consultation that patients have with health services. The event log will presumably record the patient name, DOB and other identifying information (as spelled out in the Bill, this can and -- and in the vast majority will -- include Medicare no.), the date of the visit, the name and address of the clinic, the healthcare organisation identifier, and surely also the name and provider identifier of the person authorised to request the IHI. It has been said over and over and over that there is no clinical information information 'attached to' the IHI or included in the IHI database. This overlooks all the metadata that will be generated. The IHI system will record (indeed, has to record for audit) ... 15/7/2014 1:25AM Stephen Z. Wilson IHI downloaded by Sister Alice Smith at Royal General Emergency Room Admissions HPI 222222 16/7/2014 10:00AM Stephen Z. Wilson IHI downloaded by Dr Ida Bett at Melbourne Major Drug & Alcohol Centre HPI 666666 21/7/2014 3:10PM Stephen Z. Wilson IHI downloaded by Dr Fred Nurk at Toorak Psychiatric Services HPI 123456 22/7/2014 9:00AM Stephen Z. Wilson IHI downloaded by Ms. Ima Clerk at Inner City Mental Hospital HPI 654321 So the IHI system doesn't *explicitly* say that Steve had an episode that caused him to attend an emergenecy room late one night, that he went on to drug and psychiatric counselling before being admitted to an acute mental health facility. But it would all be obvious in the log. In my view, this logging is a by-product of a centralised IHI service designed in response to a particular challenge: people carrying their IHIs for themselves and presenting them to clinicians as needed. THe NEHTA design has avoided this, seemingly because it's deemed too hard. The logging of IHI requests is not inherently necessary for the provision of IHIs, but of course, once you commit to a centralised architecture, the logging is necessary (ironically) to help individuals prosecute their own privacy. There should be alternative choices for carrying one's IHI, such that they way you use the IHI remains confidential between you and the healthcare provider. Cheers, Steve. Stephen Wilson Managing Director Lockstep Group Phone +61 (0)414 488 851 www.lockstep.com.au Lockstep Consulting provides independent specialist advice and analysis on digital identity and privacy. Lockstep Technologies develops unique new smart ID solutions that enhance privacy and prevent identity theft. From brd at iimetro.com.au Mon Mar 15 15:39:57 2010 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:39:57 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Word, Excel, Powerpoint - free on the web Message-ID: <58052.1268627997@iimetro.com.au> Word, Excel, Powerpoint - free on the web LIA TIMSON SMH March 15, 2010 - 2:00PM http://www.smh.com.au/technology/enterprise/word-excel-powerpoint--free-on-the-web-20100315-q7g7.html Microsoft is rising to Google Docs, offering free Office applications on the web as it releases Office 2010. New paid versions of the ubiquitous office suite will be available to businesses in May and consumers in June, but its Office Web Apps component is already available in beta through Microsoft Office Live. Anyone with a Windows Live account can create, modify or share Word, Excel and PowerPoint documents for free. They do not need Microsoft software installed on their machines. Gartner predicts web-based office suites will grow at 34 per cent annually through to 2013 to satisfy market demand. Google recently purchased DocVerse, a company that enables Microsoft applications in the cloud. It begs the question: with so many free web-based office software options available, why pay for a new version of the proprietary suite? Reed Shaffner, senior product manager, Office 2010, was in Australia last week to explain. He disputed the notion that free online applications like Google Docs, Zoho and ThinkFree are adequate for sophisticated users, especially in the enterprise. ?It's really about the different applications that we provide as leading software vendor. We invest US$1billion in R&D in every version of Office that we put out. If you think of productivity suites, no one else can begin to play in that arena.? Office 2010 brings incremental changes to Word, Excel, Publisher, Access, OneNote, PowerPoint and Outlook. Professional and Home & Business beta trials are available for download now. The focus, Shaffner said, is on collaboration and sharing. All programs include a ?Save to SkyDrive? button to upload to the cloud more easily. SkyDrive is the company's name for the storage space within Office Live. Enterprise users on SharePoint have a ?Save to SharePoint? button for the same purpose. Social connection The change in Outlook 2010 is substantial. Here Microsoft has attempted to catch up with the social media revolution by adding Social Connectors to the most used email program in the world. The enhancement displays additional contact information from LinkedIn, Facebook and MySpace, as well as from desktop and SharePoint searches. ?We've really tried to take office and bring it to the work style that people have adjusted to in their life," said Shaffner. ?We realise that as people communicate through different channels they don't want to go to different places. People want one view of that so we tried to make Outlook the hub.? San Francisco start-up Xobni already offers such a product. It integrates seamlessly with social networks including Twitter, and has enterprise add-ons for Salesforce.com and SharePoint. Jens Butler, principal analyst with Ovum, says software vendors like Microsoft have no choice but to include social networking in their packages. ?Everyone else is doing it. They might as well,? he said. Enhanced Security v Distraction Shaffner listed a number of enterprise security improvements as reasons for upgrade. This includes the ability to not only preview but also open email attachments in a virtual window that protects the user from executable files, and anti-tampering detection for known files. ?So you users don't have to make any trust decision,? he said. He believed enterprises would upgrade to the new suite as they migrate to Windows 7. He rejected suggestion they might baulk at the prospect of more social media interference at work, saying that 10 years ago they had the same reaction to Instant Messaging, now a given in workplace communication. Making the upgrade decision Butler said despite the abundance of free office applications, enterprise customers would undertake a systematic approach to upgrades. This included considering cost of acquisition, ongoing maintenance, training and system integration. He anticipated businesses using Office 2003 would soon upgrade, while 2007 users would be in less hurry. Consumers who buy a new Windows machine from now on have the option of upgrading to Office 2010. Gartner analysts said proprietary office suites would dominate the enterprise market until 2011 because they offer significant functionality and performance advantages over web-based versions. -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd at iimetro.com.au From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Mon Mar 15 16:02:01 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:02:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Word, Excel, Powerpoint - free on the web In-Reply-To: <58052.1268627997@iimetro.com.au> References: <58052.1268627997@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: > At 14:10 +0000 13/3/10, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: >> Anybody have any good/bad experiences with Windows SkyDrive or Live Sync? At 12:39 +0800 15/3/10, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: >http://www.smh.com.au/technology/enterprise/word-excel-powerpoint--free-on-the-web-20100315-q7g7.html > ... >Anyone with a Windows Live account can create, modify or share Word, >Excel and PowerPoint documents for free. They do not need Microsoft >software installed on their machines. ... >All programs include a "Save to SkyDrive" button to upload to the >cloud more easily. SkyDrive is the company's name for the storage >space within Office Live. ... Ergo: - Windows SkyDrive involves storing your data in Redmond - Live Sync *may* be P2P (point-to-point as much as peer-to-peer), although we've yet to see anything that declares that no copy can ever find its way to Redmond or some other MS storage device -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From marghanita at ramin.com.au Mon Mar 15 16:12:17 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:12:17 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> Stephen Wilson wrote: > > So the IHI system doesn't *explicitly* say that Steve had an episode > that caused him to attend an emergenecy room late one night, that he > went on to drug and psychiatric counselling before being admitted to an > acute mental health facility. But it would all be obvious in the log. > > In my view, this logging is a by-product of a centralised IHI service > designed in response to a particular challenge: people carrying their > IHIs for themselves and presenting them to clinicians as needed. THe > NEHTA design has avoided this, seemingly because it's deemed too hard. > The logging of IHI requests is not inherently necessary for the > provision of IHIs, but of course, once you commit to a centralised > architecture, the logging is necessary (ironically) to help individuals > prosecute their own privacy. > > There should be alternative choices for carrying one's IHI, such that > they way you use the IHI remains confidential between you and the > healthcare provider. If you were concerned (and I would imagine there may be things that you would like to be kept private). I would suggest you should pay cash and refuse to be identified. When you present for medical care. I can't imagine there would be a reason why a private Medical Practitioner would refuse you service.... if you were prepared to pay the full amount - I recently romped up to a dentist and paid for the service on credit card (if I was concerned about my privacy) I guess I could have paid cash....but then there is probably little the bank/financial institutions don't know about me. However, given that the training of Medical Professionals and the provision of Medical services is funded by the state, then I believe they have a duty to be prudent with the money we handover to them to provide medical services to our community. We also expect that we can turn up/be sent to an emergency ward in a time of need....though there is a limit to what level of services can/is provided. and from today's newspaper: > Doctors believe Australians should not shy away from CT scans after concerns were raised about the imaging tests being overused. > > The health profession watchdog on Monday warned that doctors were ordering potentially dangerous CT scans at higher rates than in comparable countries. > > "I have been alarmed at the number of these scans ordered without clinical justification," Professional Services Review (PSR) director Tony Webber states in the watchdog's latest report. > > "Practitioners should always consider the risks of radiation exposure particularly in younger patients." Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Mon Mar 15 16:32:49 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:32:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: At 16:12 +1100 15/3/10, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >If you were concerned (and I would imagine there may be >things that you would like to be kept private). I would >suggest you should pay cash and refuse to be identified. Let me check that I understand your proposition, Marghanita. 1. everyone who ever has any kind of transaction they want to keep private 2. in respect of every such sensitive transaction 3. has to pay the whole amount, without refund 4. and in many cases has to pay large and even very large sums 5. for services that they've already paid for through the tax system Otherwise the data will be linked into a virtual national database, that is accessible by 600,000 people, and that includes an entry in the hub-database that alone shows enough meta-data for people to draw inferences. And note that this is all new, and not a feature of the current system. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From marghanita at ramin.com.au Mon Mar 15 17:12:12 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:12:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> Firstly, Roger (and Stephen), As my postings are rejected by the privacy list, please do me the courtesy of not cross posting. Secondly, what I was pointing out is that some of the information you identified as being more widely available (ie log of visits to pharmacist, gp, dentist etc) becomes available - when you pay by credit card. Also, people participating in studies such as these may also not be aware of the extent of the medical information about them currently provided to researchers: > DO you have arthritis, diabetes, heart disease, a respiratory condition, high blood pressure or chronic pain? > > Arthritis NSW and Hawkesbury-Hills Division of General Practice and the NSW University research centre for primary health care and equity are running a study, and the organisers want to test the effectiveness of a new program called Moving On, a self-management program for people with long-term illness. Marghanita Roger Clarke wrote: > At 16:12 +1100 15/3/10, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >> If you were concerned (and I would imagine there may be >> things that you would like to be kept private). I would >> suggest you should pay cash and refuse to be identified. > > Let me check that I understand your proposition, Marghanita. > > 1. everyone who ever has any kind of transaction they want to keep private > > 2. in respect of every such sensitive transaction > > 3. has to pay the whole amount, without refund > > 4. and in many cases has to pay large and even very large sums > > 5. for services that they've already paid for through the tax system > > Otherwise the data will be linked into a virtual national database, > that is accessible by 600,000 people, and that includes an entry in > the hub-database that alone shows enough meta-data for people to draw > inferences. > > And note that this is all new, and not a feature of the current system. > > -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Mon Mar 15 17:42:21 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:42:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <8fplq0$3q48u0@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> At 05:12 PM 15/03/2010, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >Secondly, what I was pointing out is that some of the >information you identified as being more widely >available (ie log of visits to pharmacist, gp, dentist >etc) becomes available - when you pay by credit card. But 600,000 health care providers don't have access to your credit card, do they? And this from that arthritis story: People recruited to the study will be placed in one of two programs. They are free and run once a week for seven weeks. The study aims to recruit 300 participants between the ages of 45 and 75 across five local government areas - Hornsby, Ryde, The Hills, Blacktown and Hawkesbury. === I take it that means opt-in. Not compulsory. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Mon Mar 15 17:46:34 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: At 17:12 +1100 15/3/10, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >As my postings are rejected by the privacy list, please do >me the courtesy of not cross posting. Apologies. (The thread is running in both fora, and I'm posting to both without thinking about it). The ideas are important. If you'd like me to post anything to the privacy list on your behalf, I'd be pleased to do so. >Secondly, what I was pointing out is that some of the >information you identified as being more widely >available (ie log of visits to pharmacist, gp, dentist >etc) becomes available - when you pay by credit card. It's actually *narrowly* available, i.e. a pharmacist can see their log, but no-one else can; ditto a dentist; and ditto the credi-card company. The IHI and singular-EHR that NEHTA is devising bundles it all together, indexes it, and makes the index and the complete suite of databases available to vast numbers of people. >Also, people participating in studies such as these may also >not be aware of the extent of the medical information about >them currently provided to researchers: >> DO you have arthritis, diabetes, heart disease, a respiratory >>condition, high blood pressure or chronic pain? >> Arthritis NSW and Hawkesbury-Hills Division of General Practice >>and the NSW University research centre for primary health care and >>equity are running a study, and the organisers want to test the >>effectiveness of a new program called Moving On, a self-management >>program for people with long-term illness. > Very much agreed. ___________________________________________________________________ >Roger Clarke wrote: >> At 16:12 +1100 15/3/10, Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >>> If you were concerned (and I would imagine there may be >>> things that you would like to be kept private). I would >>> suggest you should pay cash and refuse to be identified. >> Let me check that I understand your proposition, Marghanita. >> 1. everyone who ever has any kind of transaction they want to keep private >> 2. in respect of every such sensitive transaction >> 3. has to pay the whole amount, without refund >> 4. and in many cases has to pay large and even very large sums >> 5. for services that they've already paid for through the tax system >> Otherwise the data will be linked into a virtual national >>database, that is accessible by 600,000 people, and that includes >>an entry in the hub-database that alone shows enough meta-data for >>people to draw inferences. >> And note that this is all new, and not a feature of the current system. >> > > >-- >Marghanita da Cruz >http://ramin.com.au >Tel: 0414-869202 -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From stil at stilgherrian.com Mon Mar 15 17:58:28 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:58:28 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: I spoke with the Australian Privacy Foundation's Dt Juanita Fernando about the Healthcare Identifiers Bill in this week's "Patch Monday" podcast. Useful background on the concerns, I think. http://www.zdnet.com.au/blogs/patch-monday/soa/Can-privacy-and-health-identifiers-mix-/0,2001107879,339301777,00.htm Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From kim at holburn.net Mon Mar 15 20:34:46 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:34:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Word, Excel, Powerpoint - free on the web In-Reply-To: <58052.1268627997@iimetro.com.au> References: <58052.1268627997@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: On 2010/Mar/15, at 3:39 PM, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > Word, Excel, Powerpoint - free on the web > LIA TIMSON > SMH > March 15, 2010 - 2:00PM > http://www.smh.com.au/technology/enterprise/word-excel-powerpoint--free-on-the-web-20100315-q7g7.html > > Microsoft is rising to Google Docs, offering free Office > applications on the web as it releases Office 2010. > > New paid versions of the ubiquitous office suite will be available > to businesses in May and consumers in June, but its Office Web Apps > component is already available in beta through Microsoft Office Live. > > Anyone with a Windows Live account can create, modify or share Word, > Excel and PowerPoint documents for free. They do not need Microsoft > software installed on their machines. > > Gartner predicts web-based office suites will grow at 34 per cent > annually through to 2013 to satisfy market demand. Google recently > purchased DocVerse, a company that enables Microsoft applications in > the cloud. > > It begs the question: with so many free web-based office software > options available, why pay for a new version of the proprietary suite? > Enhanced Security v Distraction > > Shaffner listed a number of enterprise security improvements as > reasons for upgrade. This includes the ability to not only preview > but also open email attachments in a virtual window that protects > the user from executable files, and anti-tampering detection for > known files. > > ?So you users don't have to make any trust decision,? he said. Shudder ... Just trust Microsoft to make your security decisions for you. And it has worked so well for Microsoft so far. Oh yeah and give them all your documents as well. Sigh. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From ben at techwiredau.com Mon Mar 15 20:45:06 2010 From: ben at techwiredau.com (Ben Grubb) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:45:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <6B630F9E-7FED-42BB-8F06-ACA86758B711@techwiredau.com> Senate report is out: http://aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/clac_ctte/healthcare_identifier/report/index.htm Recommendation 1 1.1 The committee recommends that NEHTA, in partnership with the Department of Health and Ageing and Medicare Australia, take steps to more effectively engage all healthcare stakeholders in the establishment of the Healthcare Identifiers Service. These steps should include at least the following elements: (a) involvement of key healthcare stakeholder groups, including state and territory governments, private and community health providers, and healthcare consumer groups, in the development of a Healthcare Identifiers Service implementation plan which covers the period from the successful passage of the bills to 30 June 2012; (b) the publication of this plan for public comment prior to its finalisation; and (c) the development and implementation of a targeted education and communication strategy which targets both healthcare providers and healthcare consumers, and which clearly lays out the facts behind healthcare identifiers and provides contacts for people to access further detailed information. This strategy should be implemented prior to the Healthcare Identifiers Service coming into effect on 1 July 2010. Recommendation 2 1.2 The committee recommends that the Healthcare Identifiers Bill 2010 and Healthcare Identifiers (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2010 be passed. -- Ben Grubb On 15/03/2010, at 5:58 PM, Stilgherrian wrote: > I spoke with the Australian Privacy Foundation's Dt Juanita Fernando about the Healthcare Identifiers Bill in this week's "Patch Monday" podcast. Useful background on the concerns, I think. > > http://www.zdnet.com.au/blogs/patch-monday/soa/Can-privacy-and-health-identifiers-mix-/0,2001107879,339301777,00.htm > > Stil > > > -- > Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ > Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia > mobile +61 407 623 600 > fax +61 2 8569 2006 > Twitter: stilgherrian > Skype: stilgherrian > ABN 25 231 641 421 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Mon Mar 15 21:24:33 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:24:33 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: <6B630F9E-7FED-42BB-8F06-ACA86758B711@techwiredau.com> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> <6B630F9E-7FED-42BB-8F06-ACA86758B711@techwiredau.com> Message-ID: <8fplq0$3q7529@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> At 08:45 PM 15/03/2010, Ben Grubb wrote: >Senate report is out: > >http://aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/clac_ctte/healthcare_identifier/report/index.htm > And the Coalition is recommending a series of amendments. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From stephen at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 16 00:18:22 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:18:22 GMT Subject: [LINK] Word, Excel, Powerpoint - free on the web Message-ID: <20100315131822.8F8268C4@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Roger writes, > - Live Sync *may* be P2P (point-to-point as much as peer-to-peer), > although we've yet to see anything that declares that no copy > can ever find its way to Redmond or some other MS storage device Appreciate your investigation re this Roger, and, understand and agree re concerns. In our own case MS-data-involvement matters not. I own and run a radio station, networked with other stations. We share audio files (ads, interviews, etc, etc) for non-network-streaming broadcast-times. At present we use TeamViewer but an automated, and free, system to synch our MP3s would be nice, if it's mission-critical stable and reliable. Thus my Link-query regards Microsoft Live Synch. If Microsoft want copies as well, in this case, who cares? They can help 'broadcast' created ads :) Cheers, Stephen From stephen at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 16 00:20:25 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:20:25 GMT Subject: [LINK] NBN & Fielding Message-ID: <20100315132025.C7C5A8C4@eagle.melbpc.org.au> One wonders what Fielding decided? Broadband is in Fielding's hands by Lenore Taylor, MARCH 13th, 2010 The fate of the Rudd government's $43 billion national broadband strategy rests with the Family First senator Steve Fielding, who will spend the weekend deciding whether to support legislation aimed at forcing Telstra to sell its assets to the new high-speed network. On Thursday key players were of the opinion Senator Fielding would vote with the Coalition to block the bill, making it more difficult and almost certainly more expensive for the Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy, to do the Telstra deal that is crucial to the success of his high-stakes broadband policy. But Senator Fielding told the Herald that after meeting NBN Co's chief executive, Mike Quigley, last week he was undecided and would spend the next few days talking to key players including Senator Conroy and Telstra's chief executive, David Thodey. "I am reluctant, I am worried that this is a very aggressive way for the government to try to force a deal, but I could still be convinced there is reason and urgency for this bill to go ahead," Senator Fielding said. "I don't want the new [broadband network] to end up an expensive white elephant, but I don't want to see Telstra shareholders dudded either." The legislation, unveiled by Senator Conroy last year, is aimed at speeding up the negotiations for Telstra to sell key assets to NBN Co so the government can reveal a business case and cost for its plan before the election. Depending on the price negotiated, a deal to incorporate Telstra's existing infrastructure could make the total cost far lower than the $43 billion ''worst-case scenario estimate''. The Coalition insists it is unfair for the government to "hold a gun to Telstra's head" in negotiations. "Telstra and its shareholders should be allowed to make a commercial decision based on what is in the best interests of the company, not what is in Labor's short-term political interests," the opposition's spokesman on communications, Tony Smith, said. "This attack on Telstra's 1.4 million shareholders is unprecedented. The government's problems are all of its own making, it recklessly committed to this project without a business plan when everybody knows the [network] cannot be viable without Telstra's participation." Senator Conroy said he remained in negotiation with all crossbench senators. Next week the government could also make public a crucial implementation study for the project which was not subject to any cost-benefit analysis before it was announced. Source: The Sydney Morning Herald -- Message sent using MelbPC WebMail Server From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Tue Mar 16 08:39:59 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:39:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] iPad experimentation begins: e-media In-Reply-To: <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> References: <8fplq0$3lmq3l@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9029B5.7010308@tomw.net.au> <8043E27B-9A15-4458-A9FC-3F36DB34EF49@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <4B9EA92F.3030503@tomw.net.au> Stilgherrian wrote: > On 05/03/2010, at 8:44 AM, Tom Worthington wrote: >> I expect that someone, perhaps Apple, will propose a multimedia >> e-book format, using HTML 5 in place of XHTML, with all the media >> flies zipped ... > > ... Apple's "iTunes LP" format ... might be ... Might be, but I can't find any document specifying what version of HTML is supports. But being Apple, perhaps that is defined as "whatever Safari supports". ps: When referring to "Zipped" I meant the Zip file format: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_(file_format)>. That both compresses individual files and packages them up in one archive file. The compression works fine for HTML and CSS. I assume it is smart enough not to try and compress already compresses audio, image and video formats. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From - Mon From marghanita at ramin.com.au Tue Mar 16 08:37:14 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:37:14 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3q7529@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> <6B630F9E-7FED-42BB-8F06-ACA86758B711@techwiredau.com> <8fplq0$3q7529@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B9EA88A.3020500@ramin.com.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 08:45 PM 15/03/2010, Ben Grubb wrote: >> Senate report is out: >> >> http://aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/clac_ctte/healthcare_identifier/report/index.htm >> > > And the Coalition is recommending a series of amendments. > The coalition's amendments to cover Midwives seems well overdue: >> No. 3?Health Legislation Amendment (Midwives and Nurse Practitioners) Bill 2009 [homepage] >> >> Midwife Professional Indemnity (Commonwealth Contribution) Scheme Bill 2009 [homepage] >> >> Midwife Professional Indemnity (Run-off Cover Support Payment) Bill 2009 [homepage] >> >> AG second reading amendment - sheet 6082 Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Tue Mar 16 08:52:40 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:52:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Centralised IHI architecture ... In-Reply-To: References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> <4B9C7BC1.4090006@iimetro.com.au> <4B9D6944.5040407@ramin.com.au> <4B9D7657.10009@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DA0B4.8010300@ramin.com.au> <4B9DB60F.4030807@lockstep.com.au> <4B9DC1B1.4010200@ramin.com.au> <4B9DCFBC.1020706@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9EAC28.6080303@ramin.com.au> Roger Clarke wrote: >> Secondly, what I was pointing out is that some of the >> information you identified as being more widely >> available (ie log of visits to pharmacist, gp, dentist >> etc) becomes available - when you pay by credit card. > > It's actually *narrowly* available, i.e. a pharmacist can see their > log, but no-one else can; ditto a dentist; and ditto the credi-card > company. > But the complete history of transactions is available to your bank/credit card company and I would guess a few others in the financial system. If we look at this from a health care perspective (which I don't think is the issue at all), then a pharmacist would have a responsibility to check that the patient doesn't receive a bad combination of drugs. If we look at this from a financial perspective, the pharmacist may have duty to check when a script from a subsidised drug was last filled. Similarly with a CT scan or other pathology test. > The IHI and singular-EHR that NEHTA is devising bundles it all > together, indexes it, and makes the index and the complete suite of > databases available to vast numbers of people. > Healthcare is provided by a vast number of people in different organisations. The patient should be happy about the cross checking. If you get sick away from your GP or on the weekend or loose your medication and don't have the prescription - a way to access the information would be useful. Marghanita PS if you want to respond to this email on the Privacy list, I suggest you reference the postings in the Link archive. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Tue Mar 16 09:46:15 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:46:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] =?windows-1252?q?Government=92s_plan_to_appoint_an_IT_advo?= =?windows-1252?q?cate_to_assist_SMB_suppliers_targeting_government_and_en?= =?windows-1252?q?terprise_contracts?= In-Reply-To: <4B988EA0.8030107@ramin.com.au> References: <4B988EA0.8030107@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4B9EB8B7.1090309@ramin.com.au> and.... > NASCIO on Unlimited Liability - Gaining Traction on the Road to "Win-Win" > > (Lexington, KY) ? The National Association of State Chief Information Officers (NASCIO) is pleased to announce the release of its latest research brief ?Gaining Traction on the Road to Win-Win: Limitations on Liability in State IT Contracting.? This report highlights the challenges associated with unlimited liability and the advocacy efforts to broaden competition in the marketplace. This brief provides research on the subject, and the statistics for current trends related to reforming unlimited liability provisions. This report is available at: www.nascio.org/publications. Marghanita da Cruz wrote: >> Labor ACT senator, Kate Lundy, has announced the Government?s plan to appoint an IT advocate to assist SMB suppliers targeting government and enterprise contracts > ... >> ?With multinational enterprises and government CIOs often hesitant to undertake business with small to medium-sized businesses due to perceptions of risk, the IT Supplier Advocate will work with parties to mitigate these often unfounded perceptions of risk associated with contracting a small business,? she said. > > > and... >> On the issue of a Government fund to provide SMBs with professional indemnity insurance and reduce the burden on small to medium businesses, the Senator said she would look at any proposals presented by the IT industry. >> >> ?One of the most frustrating things is professional indemnity insurance requirement is often way beyond the value of the contracts. It?s an issue of education in the Government market about the perception of risk,? she said. >> >> But the Senator said she would help the SMB IT advocacy position to recommend legislative changes to streamline the industry. > > -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From brd at iimetro.com.au Tue Mar 16 10:18:28 2010 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:18:28 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Tanner's reprieve on data-centre deadline Message-ID: <20725.1268695108@iimetro.com.au> Tanner's reprieve on data-centre deadline Fran Foo The Australian March 16, 2010 http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/tanners-reprieve-on-data-centre-deadline/story-e6frgakx-1225841086668 Federal departments and agencies have earned a reprieve from Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner as the government finalises its whole-of-government data-centre strategy. An interim data-centre panel arrangement, in place since September, was set to expire on March 30. It was established to let agencies procure data-centre services while the strategy was developed based on recommendations by the Australian Government Information Management Office. A spokesman for Mr Tanner has confirmed no extensions will be given but if contract negotiations are in train, they will be allowed to continue. Eleven agencies have gained approval to tap the services of the five panel members: Canberra Data Centres, Fujitsu, Global Switch, Polaris and Harbour MSP. "Before signing a contract under the interim data-centre panel, the agencies must negotiate service-level agreements that meet their technical requirements with the panel member," the spokesman said. "The approved agencies must be negotiating with the data-centre providers by the end of March. The contracts do not have to be finalised." The decision will allay fears harboured by government officials and vendors on whether they should proceed with the deadline looming. No details have been given on the contents or when AGIMO's data-centre report will be made public. AGIMO presented its report late last year and since then Mr Tanner's office has said consistently that the strategy was being considered by government. Centrelink was the first to use the panel, awarding a two-year, $4.88 million contract to Canberra Data Centres. Others approved to use the panel are the departments of Defence; Families, Housing, Community Services & Indigenous Affairs; Climate Change; Environment -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd at iimetro.com.au From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 16 15:02:10 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:02:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Over half Australian newspaper news is spin Message-ID: <3E49A857-9602-4328-8423-6F2485FAC981@holburn.net> http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/15/over-half-your-news-is-spin/ > Hard questions, because this is what came out in the wash: after > analysing a five-day working week in the media, across 10 hard-copy > papers, ACIJ and Crikey found that nearly 55% of stories analysed > were driven by some form of public relations. The Daily Telegraph > came out on top of the league ladder with 70% of stories analysed > triggered by public relations. The Sydney Morning Herald gets the > wooden spoon with (only) 42% PR-driven stories for that week. ... > Our investigation strongly confirms that journalism in Australia > today is heavily influenced by commercial interests selling a > product, and constrained and blocked by politicians, police and > others who control the media message. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Wed Mar 17 08:49:22 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:49:22 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Building the Australian National Health Network In-Reply-To: <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> References: <4B980F71.8040609@tomw.net.au> <8heh0f$1tqgqp@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <4B9C2607.2010105@tomw.net.au> <8eavh8$tm1nn@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4B9FFCE2.1050905@tomw.net.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 10:55 AM 14/03/2010, Tom Worthington wrote: > >> Not quite. NEHTA seems to be more like the Communications Alliance >> ... > > They are private company owned by COAG, not an industry alliance. ... NEHTA looks to me more like a political alliance, requiring a level of consensus from participants and slowing down implementation. > They have a mulitmillion dollar budget to set the foundation as you > say. ... A few hundred million is not enough, I suggest the health network will need tens of billions of dollars, like NBN Co. > ... Medical services have been delivered since the beginning of the country without such a network in place. ... My life was placed in danger due to the lack of medical networking, when I was taken to hospital by ambulance: . Fortuitously, I was minutes away from a major hospital. I suspect I got premium treatment, as I was admitted as an ANU lecturer to ANU's own teaching hospital. ;-) As depicted in the video shown recently at an ACS forum , the medical staff on site, in the ambulance and in hospital, tried to find out my medical history and medications from me, but I was not in a fit state to communicate with them. Had there been some form of medical network they could have looked up the details. Without that the treatment was slower and presumably more expensive. >... 98% of practices are computerised now. Some say 100%. Yes, my GP can collect pathology results online and share these with a specialist. But to communicate with the specialist, or a hospital, they take out a sheet of letterhead paper, put it in a printer and then put the results in an envelope, seal the envelope and hand it to me to deliver. That is not a system which worked when I was on a stretcher in the back of an ambulance. > ... The practice systems aren't 'just a web browser' nor should they be. ... Medical systems could use a web interface. That would then be available from a desktop computer in a GP's office, in the back of an ambulance, in the hospital and on a mobile device in the consulting specialist's pocket. > I'll leave it there. ... Me too. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Wed Mar 17 10:12:17 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:12:17 +1100 Subject: [LINK] enhanced ebooks Message-ID: <8fplq0$3qq6ft@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> I really like this idea. Of course I search for all the hidden stuff on DVDs, so I would like it. Fwd: Publishers Lunch >eBook Releases from Grisham and Baldacci >Over a year after first announcing John Grisham's intention to >release his backlist in ebook editions, today Knopf Doubleday put on >sale ebook versions of all twenty-three of Grisham's titles. They >are available in the US and Canada. The publisher also confirmed >that Grisham's new book, coming this October, will be another legal thriller. > >Separately, when David Baldacci's new book DELIVER US FROM EVIL is >released on April 20, Hachette Book Group's editions will include an >"enriched" electronic version they're calling the Writer's Cut >eBook. In the release, HBG ceo David Young says, "For David >Baldacci's fans, this is a chance to see his creative process >revealed, and deepen the connection with an author they love to >read. This enhanced eBook is the perfect marriage of innovation and >great storytelling." > >Baldacci tells the AP, "I want people to have a great experience and >give them a behind-the-scenes look at what I do, the way you would >have it on a DVD." Priced at $15.99, a dollar above the starting >list price of the regular ebook (which would go to $12.99 after >hitting the bestseller list), the enhancements include an alternate >ending to the story, deleted passages, an audio interview, video of >Baldacci at work, and research photos taken by the author. Thus it >will work on ebook platforms that handle video and color, but >"Hachette is still working on the enriched version and is unsure of >its availability" on eInk screens. > >Baldacci also indicates that, though he received some negative >online reader "reviews" last when when the ebook of FIRST FAMILY was >selling initially for more than $15, sales followed the general >increase in the market: "I just saw the royalty statements for >'First Family,' and sales for the e-book were up 400 percent over >the e-book of my previous novels. It was a very vocal minority that >was upset and at the end of the day it didn't have any impact." > >In an online interview with Charlotte Abbott on Friday, Young and >HBG svp of digital Maja Thomas indicated that the company is working >with many of their biggest authors--including Stephenie Meyer, James >Patterson, Michael Connelly, Brad Meltzer and others--on a variety >of experimental enhanced ebooks. Thomas noted "some of it is >platform-specific, and some of it is platform agnostic," adding, >"we'll have to see in the next few months how much the consumer >loves what we have done." Calling it "a very exiting and dynamic >time," Young emphasized the importance of now "having direct >feedback from our readers," adding that "boy, do we hear from them." > >In the interview, they also said that the company has digitized and >made available as ebooks 90 percent of the books on their list that >lend themselves to current electronic formats. When it come to >electronic rights and royalties, Young said "we certainly have one >or two issues around that, but it is literally a handful of authors >where we are still having to negotiate those rights with agents." He >also noted that "some of our authors do not want to appear in this >format, and that's absolutely their prerogative." For more quotes >and reflections from the interview, Mike Shatzkin writes about it on >his >blog. > > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 17 21:42:55 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:42:55 GMT Subject: [LINK] Vic 'App My State Hack Day' Message-ID: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> App My State Hack Day --------------------- When: 10-11 April Start Time: Midday 10th April Finish Time: Midday 11th April Venue: Experimedia, State Library of Victoria RSVP: Spots are limited so please RSVP before 1 April to webteam at premier.vic.gov.au Expecting: approx 50 participants, with a maximum of 100 Facilities: video games and chill out areas will be available for people to take a break. * What is app my state? * App My State is a competition to build mobile and web applications that will benefit Victorians. With $100,000 are available in prizes with categories for the most popular, youth and sustainability. Full details can be found here - * What is a hack day? * Hack days involve bringing coders, designers and idea people together in the one space to build apps. Groups are formed at the start of the day and spend the next 24 hours building applications. At the end of the hack day, teams present their applications. All apps are available to share in the prizes. -- Cheers, Stephen From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 17 21:54:34 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:54:34 GMT Subject: [LINK] NBN in Tasmania Message-ID: <20100317105434.CB466894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Ken writes, The end-user costs of connecting to the National Broadband Network are now a bit clearer after the announcement of three commercial providers for the first retail connections to NBN in Australia. These are iiNet, Internode and Primus who which will offer high speed broadband in Tasmania. An iiNet spokesman said yesterday the minimum plan for superfast fibre optic broadband would be $49.95 (per month), with a download limit of five gigabytes. At the other end of the scale, the highest amount that Tasmanians will pay is $159.95 for 90 gigabytes of download and speeds of up 100 Mbps -- 20 times faster than current speeds in Tasmania. Internode -- another of the three providers -- offers similar prices with more speed and download options. http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/03/16/134205_tasmania-news.html http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/tasmania-starts-nbn-roll- out/story-e6frgakx-1225840985490 http://www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/media/media_releases/2010/022 -- Cheers, Ken Stephen Loosley Victoria Australia From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 18 08:51:51 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:51:51 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Re: Eudora/Droid issue Message-ID: <8fplq0$3r598o@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> This problem may be of interest to linkers. To have a new email system not include all the components required seems a bit odd. Jan >>"Gibberish from Motorola Droid" >>http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=14833 > >I have been seeing the same problem in Eudora reading mail from aol >servers with message id's of the form: Message-ID: > >The relevant header sub-block shows, eg: > >>Message-ID: <56ioyy3keu1538af9078kra6.1268751525026 at email.android.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > >The Mime header is missing. > >The messages are readable in Thunderbird, downloaded from the same >server. But when the Thunderbird source is selected (^U) the body >is unreadable exactly as in Eudora. > >How widespread is this droid missing-header problem? How widespread >is the use of the software? Is there only one source for the >software with this problem? Are they refusing to fix it? > >The thread at http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=14833 >stating that the RFC requires the header was written in 2006 -- has >it been changed to optional since then? Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Thu Mar 18 09:02:01 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:02:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering Message-ID: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Just saw this. It's undated, so I don't know how 'new' it is. But it does appear to be more critical and constructive of the proposed filtering system. (sorry Philip) http://www.acs.org.au/attachments/ACSSUBMISSIONtoGovtRC.pdf Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 18 09:14:37 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:14:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <52425A66-80DE-4DAF-B90F-CC79958171E7@stilgherrian.com> On 18/03/2010, at 9:02 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Just saw this. It's undated, so I don't know how 'new' it is. The PDF's creation date is 11 March, if that's any help. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From kim at holburn.net Thu Mar 18 09:25:57 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:25:57 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <81B78E53-7115-4D85-83DD-4170A67233EB@holburn.net> There was a slashdot article a few days ago : http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/339394/filter_trial_vendor_sceptical_over_internet_clean-feed/?fp=4194304&fpid=1 Filter trial vendor sceptical over Internet clean-feed > Internet filtering won't prevent people deliberately looking for > inappropriate material from accessing blocked content, according to > security vendor, M86 Security. ... > "When the filter was first launched 10 years ago, I don't think > anybody would have thought it would be applied on a national scale," > M86 COO, Bruce Green, said. > > "We talk hundreds of thousands of users and even the biggest > enterprise might have half a million. Now we?re talking about > millions of users when you go into the consumer section and it was > never really designed for that purpose." > On 2010/Mar/18, at 9:02 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Just saw this. It's undated, so I don't know how 'new' it is. But it > does appear to be more critical and constructive of the proposed > filtering system. (sorry Philip) > > http://www.acs.org.au/attachments/ACSSUBMISSIONtoGovtRC.pdf > > Jan > > > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia > jwhit at janwhitaker.com > blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ > business: http://www.janwhitaker.com > > Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or > sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. > ~Madeline L'Engle, writer > > _ __________________ _ > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From rick at praxis.com.au Thu Mar 18 09:41:03 2010 From: rick at praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:41:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: Re: Eudora/Droid issue In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3r598o@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3r598o@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4BA15A7F.1080401@praxis.com.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: > This problem may be of interest to linkers. To have a new email > system not include all the components required seems a bit odd. > Jan > > >>> "Gibberish from Motorola Droid" >>> http://eudorabb.qualcomm.com/showthread.php?t=14833 >> >> I have been seeing the same problem in Eudora reading mail from aol >> servers with message id's of the form: Message-ID: >> >> The relevant header sub-block shows, eg: >> >>> Message-ID:<56ioyy3keu1538af9078kra6.1268751525026 at email.android.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >> >> The Mime header is missing. Eudora is doing the Right Thing (tm), but not an intelligent thing. If the MIME header is missing, the mail client should ignore all MIME-related headers. But many email clients deduce that if there are MIME headers like "Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64" that MIME 1.0 should be used. It might behoove Eudora to provide an option for this intelligent behviour rather than being so obstinate, in the way the browsers are forgiving with incorrect HTML and make provisions for mssing tags. Another option is manually decoding the Base-64 content, a PITA. cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Simply stated, it is sagacious to eschew obfuscation -- Norman Augustine From craige at deakin.edu.au Thu Mar 18 09:43:44 2010 From: craige at deakin.edu.au (Craige Hicks) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:43:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <000001cac623$4ca5a6c0$e5f0f440$@edu.au> Oh dear... Not well proof-read!! Or perhaps ACS is quoting verbatim from the Internet Industry Association paper. Either way, not a good look. >From page 4: The Scope of Content Caught by Mandatory Internet Filtering" 1, lists a number of hypothetical examples of material that could be caught by mandatory filtering that would reasonably be expected to be available by a reasonable adult, such as. . a sight devoted to debating euthanasia in which some participants exchanged information about actual euthanasia practices; . a sit set up by a community organisation to promote harm minimisation in recreational drug use; . a site designed to give safe space for young gay or lesbian people to meet and discuss their sexuality in which some members of the online community narrated explicit sexual experiences; craige -----Original Message----- From: link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au [mailto:link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Jan Whitaker Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2010 9:02 AM To: link at anu.edu.au Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering Just saw this. It's undated, so I don't know how 'new' it is. But it does appear to be more critical and constructive of the proposed filtering system. (sorry Philip) http://www.acs.org.au/attachments/ACSSUBMISSIONtoGovtRC.pdf Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ _______________________________________________ Link mailing list Link at mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 18 09:43:39 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:43:39 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <81B78E53-7115-4D85-83DD-4170A67233EB@holburn.net> References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <81B78E53-7115-4D85-83DD-4170A67233EB@holburn.net> Message-ID: <8fplq0$3r5qjr@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> At 09:25 AM 18/03/2010, Kim Holburn wrote: >http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/339394/filter_trial_vendor_sceptical_over_internet_clean-feed/?fp=4194304&fpid=1 >Filter trial vendor sceptical over Internet clean-feed > > > Internet filtering won't prevent people deliberately looking for > > inappropriate material from accessing blocked content, according to > > security vendor, M86 Security There is a comment to that article by a Doug Wilson that says: "If you come across a website that includes these things you can already report it to the ACMA and if they determine that it is illegal in Australia the ACMA will block Australians from getting to it through a Blacklist that Every ISP runs. " Then someone said no they can't. Then another said: "Wow, you've never heard of "trans proxies" (Transparent Proxies) have you? Your ISP is probably already running all of their users, including you, through a trans proxy: any outbound traffic on tcp/80 (i.e.: web traffic) gets intercepted at the ISP's border routers and flicked back to a Squid (or other) proxy server to service the requests. This saves the ISP big dollars on traffic bills to their upstream peers as all the regularly hit traffic (like stylesheets, images, videos, etc. on Facebook, GooTube, etc.) will be in the Squid cache and can be served up locally instead of downloaded across the internet again. Once you've got that kind of infrastructure in place it's literally "trivial" to add a blacklist-style content filter. Of course, it's also trivial to bypass such a system, too. " That isn't true, is it? I mean, if every ISP is running a blacklist, that would mean that we already *have* ISP level filtering. Is this guy just making things up? Or is there already blocking going on? Then this, which I think is the crux of the matter: "My only concern is Abbott taking over when the filter is already implemented. God know what he will be filtering... " Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From kauer at biplane.com.au Thu Mar 18 09:50:54 2010 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:50:54 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <1268866254.5727.613.camel@karl> On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 09:02 +1100, Jan Whitaker wrote: > Just saw this. It's undated, so I don't know how 'new' it is. But it > does appear to be more critical and constructive of the proposed > filtering system. (sorry Philip) > > http://www.acs.org.au/attachments/ACSSUBMISSIONtoGovtRC.pdf It's pretty light weight. The most interesting thing in it is this astounding statement: The ACS in no way questions the need to close down and prevent access to child pornography, sexual abuse, rape or other content that the great majority of Australians would find totally abhorrent. At face value the ACS is saying that anything "the great majority of Australians would find totally abhorrent" is fair game to be censored. At best this is careless use of the word "content", most likely it is careless brown-nosing. It is a key part of a functional democratic society that viewpoints, however abhorrent to the majority, may be expressed. Practical and political reality mean that *some* viewpoints are suppressed, but that suppression must *always* be questioned. Opinion is content. The mere fact that most Australians might strongly disagree with a viewpoint does not make that viewpoint less valid or less worthy of expression. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) +61-2-64957160 (h) http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob) GPG fingerprint: B386 7819 B227 2961 8301 C5A9 2EBC 754B CD97 0156 Old fingerprint: 07F3 1DF9 9D45 8BCD 7DD5 00CE 4A44 6A03 F43A 7DEF From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 18 10:18:25 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:18:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3r5qjr@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <81B78E53-7115-4D85-83DD-4170A67233EB@holburn.net> <8fplq0$3r5qjr@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <77EA64C1-5B35-4BF7-8D0E-2EE06439A71B@stilgherrian.com> On 18/03/2010, at 9:43 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > That isn't true, is it? I mean, if every ISP is running a blacklist, > that would mean that we already *have* ISP level filtering. Is this > guy just making things up? Or is there already blocking going on? Most if not all ISPs would be running a web proxy/cache like Squid, yes. And such proxies have the ability to allow or deny access by IP address or URL. So do most firewalls an routers for that matter. So in essence the vague term "blocking" is already possible. ISPs already block certain traffic if it is a threat to their ability to run their network, such as the daily DDoS attacks which plague the internet, or persistent spammers or whatever. This is just normal network management. So in essence the vague term "blocking" is already happening. But the intent of all this is to ensure that the network operates fast and reliably for the paying customers. Whereas the intent of the "mandatory internet content filtering" is to prevent the paying customers using the network as they wish, either because they deliberately wish to access the content or it's inadvertently "stumbling across it". (ISPs already "block" traffic in the form of filtering email for spam and viruses. Again, a kind of filtering which the customers would want to happen) Whereas the existing "blocking" (and I say again, this is vague and probably unhelpful term) is about what the customer wants (spam and virus filtering) or what the ISP wants (remove the attacks that affect their ability to do their job), the censorship filter is about doing what someone else wants, i.e. the government. These differences of intent and responsibility and goals are the key differences. The whole rest of the debate is about how you efficiently achieve those goals technically. Stepping back a bit further, the actual government goal is not about child protection but about politics. But I've written enough about that elsewhere. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From kim at holburn.net Thu Mar 18 10:22:52 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:22:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8fplq0$3r5qjr@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <81B78E53-7115-4D85-83DD-4170A67233EB@holburn.net> <8fplq0$3r5qjr@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: On 2010/Mar/18, at 9:43 AM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > At 09:25 AM 18/03/2010, Kim Holburn wrote: > >> http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/339394/filter_trial_vendor_sceptical_over_internet_clean-feed/?fp=4194304&fpid=1 >> Filter trial vendor sceptical over Internet clean-feed >> >>> Internet filtering won't prevent people deliberately looking for >>> inappropriate material from accessing blocked content, according to >>> security vendor, M86 Security > > There is a comment to that article by a Doug Wilson that says: > "If you come across a website that includes these things you can > already report it to the ACMA and if they determine that it is > illegal in Australia the ACMA will block Australians from getting to > it through a Blacklist that Every ISP runs. " I don't believe there is any such infrastructure in place at the moment. > Then someone said no they can't. Then another said: > "Wow, you've never heard of "trans proxies" (Transparent Proxies) > have you? > Your ISP is probably already running all of their users, including > you, through a trans proxy: any outbound traffic on tcp/80 (i.e.: web > traffic) gets intercepted at the ISP's border routers and flicked > back to a Squid (or other) proxy server to service the requests. This > saves the ISP big dollars on traffic bills to their upstream peers as > all the regularly hit traffic (like stylesheets, images, videos, etc. > on Facebook, GooTube, etc.) will be in the Squid cache and can be > served up locally instead of downloaded across the internet again. > Once you've got that kind of infrastructure in place it's literally > "trivial" to add a blacklist-style content filter. Of course, it's > also trivial to bypass such a system, too. " > > That isn't true, is it? I mean, if every ISP is running a blacklist, > that would mean that we already *have* ISP level filtering. Is this > guy just making things up? Or is there already blocking going on? Some ISPs run transparent proxies. It is really annoying if you are trying to manage a website on the other side of a transparent proxy. You know about it. Most ISPs don't run them I think. I'm not really sure how much they would really save verses the pain and hassle of keeping the thing running reasonably. People notice when they break. An updateable blacklist would be an addition to the proxy. > Then this, which I think is the crux of the matter: > "My only concern is Abbott taking over when the filter is already > implemented. God know what he will be filtering... " Won't there be an election between now and whenever the great Australian firewall is actually implemented? Has the legislation even passed yet? -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From stil at stilgherrian.com Thu Mar 18 10:33:18 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:33:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: References: <8fplq0$3r5c8u@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> <81B78E53-7115-4D85-83DD-4170A67233EB@holburn.net> <8fplq0$3r5qjr@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <1132D27C-313D-4AA3-A11F-F5BBD0A3679B@stilgherrian.com> On 18/03/2010, at 10:22 AM, Kim Holburn wrote: >> There is a comment to that article by a Doug Wilson that says: >> "If you come across a website that includes these things you can >> already report it to the ACMA and if they determine that it is >> illegal in Australia the ACMA will block Australians from getting to >> it through a Blacklist that Every ISP runs. " > > I don't believe there is any such infrastructure in place at the moment. On this bit, no there is no infrastructure in "every ISP" to implement the ACMA blacklist. Doug Wilson is wrong. Yes, you can complain to ACMA. Yes, if the content is found to be prohibited online content and is hosted overseas it is added to the blacklist. But the blacklist is not provided to ISPs. It's provided to the vendors of internet filters, so they can incorporate it into their products. ISPs can then in turn choose to offer a filtered service. Webshield does so as their business model -- they provide a filtered internet service to schools, businesses and to a lesser extent homes. Indeed, the entire political debate is about whether ISPs should be required to take on the filtering of (parts of) the ACMA blacklist. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From rene.ln at libertus.net Thu Mar 18 23:58:21 2010 From: rene.ln at libertus.net (rene) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:58:21 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <000001cac623$4ca5a6c0$e5f0f440$@edu.au> Message-ID: <2010318225821.809141@C989> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:43:44 +1100, Craige Hicks wrote: > Oh dear... > > Not well proof-read!! > Or perhaps ACS is quoting verbatim from the Internet Industry > Association paper. Either way, not a good look. The ACS is mistaken about who they were quoting. The paper 'Untangling the Net' is nothing to do with the Internet Industry Association. The authors of the paper are Professor Catharine Lumby-UNSW, Professor Lelia Green-ECU and Professor John Hartley-QUT. >> From page 4: >> [...] >. a sight devoted to debating euthanasia in which some The quoted paper says "site". Jan Whitaker wrote: >> Just saw this. It's undated, so I don't know how 'new' it is. [...] >> http://www.acs.org.au/attachments/ACSSUBMISSIONtoGovtRC.pdf It's apparently a response to a government 'consultation' paper which had a submission closing date of 12 Feb 2010: http://www.dbcde.gov.au/funding_and_programs/cybersafety_plan/transparency_ measures (Btw, the govt's proposed so-called 'transparency' measures make no difference to the fact that they plan to require ISPs to 'block' access to URLs on a secret blacklist). Irene From rene.ln at libertus.net Fri Mar 19 00:12:52 2010 From: rene.ln at libertus.net (rene) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:12:52 +1000 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2010318231252.991152@C989> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:22:52 +1100, Kim Holburn wrote: > Some ISPs run transparent proxies. It is really annoying if you are > trying to manage a website on the other side of a transparent proxy. > You know about it. Most ISPs don't run them I think. I'm not really > sure how much they would really save verses the pain and hassle of > keeping the thing running reasonably. People notice when they break. I was advised ages ago Internode ditched theirs because it caused too many problems/hassle, and I'm under the impression most AU ISPs haven't been operating transparent proxies for years. [...] > > Won't there be an election between now and whenever the great > Australian firewall is actually implemented? Has the legislation even passed yet? No, the proposed legislation hasn't even been introduced into Parliament yet. Conroy said in a media released in December that the govt 'expects' to introduce it in the Autumn sittings - which ended today. Report yesterday says Conroy's "office confirmed the drafting of the legislation was still not complete": http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/regulation/37640-internet-filter-draft -legislation-delayed Irene From gdt at gdt.id.au Fri Mar 19 10:12:19 2010 From: gdt at gdt.id.au (Glen Turner) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:42:19 +1030 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <2010318231252.991152@C989> References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> Message-ID: <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> The web has very little static content of small sizes suited to a web cache these days, so there's little advantage in reduced traffic to ISPs running web caches, transparent or otherwise. The savings from the maybe 5% of reduction of traffic is trumped by the increased helpdesk costs. ISPs can save significant bandwidth by hosting or peering with content distribution networks for those huge static items which do consume a lot of bandwidth. For the same reasons, ISPs seek to peer with web sites which generate large amounts of traffic. These peerings reduce the amount of traffic from transit providers which contain static items with significant bandwidth cost. Today I mainly see web proxies implemented in four scenarios: - within enterprises for accounting or for security (stripping out forbidden items, such as ActiveX code) - within school systems for limiting access to content (I'll note that these systems usually perform poorly, which deeply worries ISPs when people suggest proxies as a suitable solution for large-scale Internet filtering.) - on the Internet as a device for subverting government-imposed Internet filters or for allowing access to IPv4 content from non-IPv4 networks. - in front of web sites to limit the frequency with which dynamic content is computed. This is by far the largest use of proxies in the modern Internet. -- Glen Turner www.gdt.id.au/~gdt From kim at holburn.net Fri Mar 19 10:13:07 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:13:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australian Human Rights Commission threatens "Encyclopedia Dramatica" Message-ID: http://www.blog.encyclopediadramatica.com/?p=84 In his own words: > So here?s the deal. This is an initial investigation into charging > me, personally, with the violation of Australia?s Racial > Discrimination Act. While I act in complete compliance with both the > civil and criminal codes of the United States of America, and am > assured the right of free speech according to our Constitution > (which, if not the greatest political document in the entire history > of law, is certainly on the top five) I can personally be jailed and > fined for the violation of this law. Check out the court precedent > they cite, Dow Jones & Co Inc v Gutnick, where a United States paper > had to pay 580k for publishing an article about a globalized company > headquartered in Australia and its CEO whilst completely in > compliance with United States civil precedence. This isn?t a far- > fetched legal theory, they have used it before. Welcome to the one > world government, folks. Is this what you wanted? Is this what you > had in mind? Cause this is what you?re gettin?. > > Encyclopedia Dramatica will never be censored in any way. We will > keep publishing this content and our Australian users will be able > to view it up until the point that your God-forsaken government > blocks it with their soon-to-be-implemented secret list of banned > material. ACMA?s child pornography blacklist is only one half child > pornography. The rest is religious and political speech. You really > want Soviet-style communism as your future? I know some people that > had to escape from the GDR. Many of your children will be in that > position. The house of cards is about to come down, and they?re > making sure your mouths are taped shut first. Don?t say I didn?t > warn you. > > My counsel has advised me that I can never under any circumstances > visit my family in Sydney again, nor otherwise make any appearances > on Australian soil. Here?s to the hidden cost of freedom. > -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 19 10:46:02 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:46:02 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Have your say on Sydney's future (or at least the planning) Message-ID: <4BA2BB3A.5020103@ramin.com.au> Linkers might like to contribute their 2c worth on Sydney's Metropolitan Strategy Review I'm impressed with the consultation interface. Though the site seems to have just failed, probably overloaded. > The NSW Government has released a discussion paper [17 March 2010], Sydney Towards 2036, which examines how to address Sydney?s future challenges. The discussion paper is the first step in a review of Sydney?s long-term land use plan, known as the Metropolitan Strategy. Unfortunately, the transport bit sounds a bit like the Canberra model - which doesn't work - people shouldn't have to move homes every time they change jobs. Integrating land use with transport - > The Metropolitan Strategy focuses on the concentration of existing public transport networks and services in centres. > > Strengthening these centres utilises existing infrastructure and services and helps meet the NSW State Plan targets including the need to increase the proportion of people who live within 30 minutes by public transport of a Regional City or Major Centre. > Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Fri Mar 19 10:51:59 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:51:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] University engagement with industry Message-ID: <4BA2BC9F.3010900@tomw.net.au> Greetings from the Australian National University were the College of Engineering & Computer Science is having an Industry Engagement Day. The idea is to work out how to apply the research done by universities and places like NICTA, to industry, in the light of recent government innovation policy. I will post some notes as we go along. Questions welcome: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 19 11:15:56 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:15:56 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> Message-ID: At 9:42 +1030 19/3/10, Glen Turner wrote: >ISPs can save significant bandwidth by hosting or peering >with content distribution networks for those huge static >items which do consume a lot of bandwidth. So the http HEAD method doesn't work for such things? (We're talking specifically of 'static' items). >For the same reasons, ISPs seek to peer with web sites which >generate large amounts of traffic. These peerings reduce >the amount of traffic from transit providers which contain >static items with significant bandwidth cost. > >Today I mainly see web proxies implemented in four scenarios: > - within enterprises for accounting or for security (stripping > out forbidden items, such as ActiveX code) > - within school systems for limiting access to content > (I'll note that these systems usually perform poorly, which > deeply worries ISPs when people suggest proxies as a suitable > solution for large-scale Internet filtering.) > - on the Internet as a device for subverting government-imposed > Internet filters or for allowing access to IPv4 content from > non-IPv4 networks. > - in front of web sites to limit the frequency with which dynamic > content is computed. This is by far the largest use of proxies > in the modern Internet. Valuable stuff, thannks Glen! -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From stil at stilgherrian.com Fri Mar 19 11:23:52 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:23:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> Message-ID: <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> On 19/03/2010, at 11:15 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: > At 9:42 +1030 19/3/10, Glen Turner wrote: >> ISPs can save significant bandwidth by hosting or peering >> with content distribution networks for those huge static >> items which do consume a lot of bandwidth. > > So the http HEAD method doesn't work for such things? > (We're talking specifically of 'static' items). I'd say that doing an HTTP HEAD to see if the content has changed, then a GET to fetch the content if it has, triples the latency time before the content actually gets fetched. I don't think I'd like to do that. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From stephen at melbpc.org.au Fri Mar 19 11:37:59 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 00:37:59 GMT Subject: [LINK] IE9 Message-ID: <20100319003759.AF0EB74B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Microsoft Details Bold Aspirations for IE9 By Larry Barrett LAS VEGAS -- A year removed from the debut of Internet Explorer 8, Microsoft released a platform preview of IE9 during the second day of its annual MIX10 developers conference, showcasing a version it promises will be consistent, powerful and long on HTML5 capabilities. "We saw how HTML5 enabled a whole new class of applications," Dean Hachamovitch, general manager of Microsoft's IE group, told attendees here Tuesday. "We quickly realized to do it right, which is our intent, our focus was more around designing what HTML5 apps will need so they will feel more like real apps than Web pages." To make it happen, Microsoft is relying on high-performance graphics chips and other PC hardware to accelerate the delivery of graphics, video and text so developers can begin building the most powerful and rich applications possible in HTML5. "Developers, raise your expectations," Hachamovitch said. Of late, developers could have said the same thing to Microsoft's army of software engineers. While other browsers such as Mozilla's Firefox and Google's Chrome have quickly embraced HTML5 and SVG, the Scalable Vector Graphics standard, Microsoft IE has fallen behind in HTML5 development and not coincidentally lost share to its largest browser competitors. But those days are over, according to Hachamovitch, as he all but begged the assembled audience of developers to stop writing code for the ancient and security-deficient IE6 browser and start writing apps for IE8, promising that all apps will be supported by IE9 once it's released sometime in 2011. Hachamovitch joked that there was an IE6 "funeral" held recently in Denver but "the IE9 team couldn't make it. We sent flowers." "We've built Internet Explorer 9 from the ground up, on top of the Windows 7 platform," Steven Sinofsky, president of Microsoft's Windows division, said during a demo. "We're all in." IE9 will have support for CSS3, the style sheet language used to describe presentation semantics of documents written in markup language, and for SVG 1.1 imagery inline. Hachamovitch said Microsoft will update the browser code every eight weeks until it releases a beta version at some undetermined date down the road. It will include new Web standards such as plug-in-free video and a new JavaScript engine called Chakra that will compile data in the background to improve performance without changing pages or code. Microsoft showed off the early iteration of IE9, running a series of graphics-rich demos that showed its new browser was faster than its competitors. Speaking of competitors, Mike Shaver, vice president of engineering at Mozilla, was gracious enough to tweet some encouraging words during the keynote address, saying "IE9 looks great, very glad to see it." Microsoft also announced plans to improve the development of new features and enhancements in the open source jQuery JavaScript Library, and will share the releases of new software development kits for the Open Data Protocol (OData) to help make life a little easier for developers looking to access data from the cloud to build cross-platform Web apps. The company also said it will promote and distribute versions of the jQuery JavaScript Library in its Visual Studio 2010 and ASP.NET MVC 2 offerings. Attendees appeared to be particularly pleased when Microsoft announced the second Community Technology Preview (CTP) of "Dallas," an information marketplace powered by the Windows Azure platform that gives developers access to third-party data sets that can be consumed by Web and mobile applications. With more than 30 data sets now available from content providers such as Weather Central and Zillow.com, developers have an opportunity to sell their applications through "Dallas." Also, Microsoft reiterated that it plans to release Visual Studio 2010 and the updated .NET framework sometime next month. Larry Barrett is a senior editor at InternetNews.com, the news service of Internet.com, the network for technology professionals. -- Cheers, Stephen From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 19 11:38:48 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:38:48 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: >> At 9:42 +1030 19/3/10, Glen Turner wrote: >>> ISPs can save significant bandwidth by hosting or peering >>> with content distribution networks for those huge static >>> items which do consume a lot of bandwidth. >On 19/03/2010, at 11:15 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: >> So the http HEAD method doesn't work for such things? >> (We're talking specifically of 'static' items). At 11:23 +1100 19/3/10, Stilgherrian wrote: >I'd say that doing an HTTP HEAD to see if the content has changed, >then a GET to fetch the content if it has, triples the latency time >before the content actually gets fetched. I don't think I'd like to >do that. *You* (or I) might like to do that. But the decision is the ISP's, and they could well choose to trade off latency against cost. (And the HEAD and the response should each fit into a single IP-datagram, and the overheads of TCP are the same either way - assuming the keep-open option is set on, which I'd very much expect to be the case; so I suspect that "triples the latency" is a serious over-estimate. No, I don't have a simulator handy to experiment with, but presumably someone has). -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From stil at stilgherrian.com Fri Mar 19 12:29:26 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:29:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <224BCA98-799F-4549-8E6F-4D31EF11480B@stilgherrian.com> On 19/03/2010, at 11:38 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: > I suspect that "triples the latency" is a serious > over-estimate. No, I don't have a simulator handy to experiment > with, but presumably someone has). Don't need an experiment, Roger, it's east to demonstrate. And I'm about to prove myself wrong by showing it's only double, not triple the latency. For any content not hosted in the next room, the major cause of latency would be the travel time for the packets from client to server and back. Asking for content with HTTP: Trip 1 HTTP GET request sent. Trip 2 Data returned. Checking with HTTP HEAD first: Trip 1 HTTP HEAD request sent. Trip 2 Data returned. Trip 3 HTTP GET sent. Trip 4 Data returned. Close enough? Either way, the lag between requesting content an it starting to appear on screen is the biggest factor in users deciding to skip off the site. I don't see slowing this process down being much of an advantage. Then again, why are we even discussing this? Isn't worrying about this what we have network engineer minions for? Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 19 12:54:09 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:54:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] National Broadband Network ('NBN') Negotiations Update Message-ID: <4BA2D941.1000108@ramin.com.au> > Currently there is a significant gap between Telstra and NBN Co on what each party considers to > be an acceptable financial outcome and there are also a range of commercial matters that are yet to > be agreed. 19 Mar 2010 National Broadband Network ('NBN') Negotiations Update (PDF, 169, 2 pages) http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/investor/asx_announcements.cfm Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 19 13:02:18 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:02:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <224BCA98-799F-4549-8E6F-4D31EF11480B@stilgherrian.com> References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> <224BCA98-799F-4549-8E6F-4D31EF11480B@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: >On 19/03/2010, at 11:38 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: >> I suspect that "triples the latency" is a serious >> over-estimate. No, I don't have a simulator handy to experiment >> with, but presumably someone has). At 12:29 +1100 19/3/10, Stilgherrian wrote: >Don't need an experiment, Roger, it's east to demonstrate. And I'm >about to prove myself wrong by showing it's only double, not triple >the latency. > >For any content not hosted in the next room, the major cause of >latency would be the travel time for the packets from client to >server and back. > >Asking for content with HTTP: Trip 1 HTTP GET request sent. Trip 2 >Data returned. > >Checking with HTTP HEAD first: Trip 1 HTTP HEAD request sent. Trip 2 >Data returned. Trip 3 HTTP GET sent. Trip 4 Data returned. > >Close enough? I don't think so (*but* I'm an amateur, and haven't looked at any of this stuff in any depth for years): (1) TCP-opening involves a bunch of packets before the data is sent (and afterwards, depending). The apparent latency at the user's device is a function of the complete session traffic rather than just the content-flows. (And the overheads are substantial) (2) A large file will involve scores or hundreds of packets travelling across the backbone, when they could have been fetched more locally. I accept that I'm assuming that fetches from network-distant sources will be slower than from network-close nodes Hence my preference for someone to offer me a gratis simulator (:-)} >Either way, the lag between requesting content an it starting to >appear on screen is the biggest factor in users deciding to skip off >the site. I don't see slowing this process down being much of an >advantage. The rational (profit-maximising) ISP couldn't give a toss whether their customers find some sites a pain. In fact, ISPs would probably prefer to (accidentally, of course) discourage their customers from visiting sites that are painful to the ISP. >Then again, why are we even discussing this? Isn't worrying about >this what we have network engineer minions for? Whether (and if so then how) intermediating devices perform actions on traffic rather than just passing it on, is a vital policy matter. A while back, I nattered on about deep packet inspection here: http://www.rogerclarke.com/II/DPI08.html Nice trick to try to get Glen back on the case, and others involved (:-)} -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From stil at stilgherrian.com Fri Mar 19 13:12:47 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:12:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> <224BCA98-799F-4549-8E6F-4D31EF11480B@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: On 19/03/2010, at 1:02 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > Nice trick to try to get Glen back on the case, and others involved (:-)} Well, better than amateurs like you and me on the case, no? ;) Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From crispin.harris at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 13:16:16 2010 From: crispin.harris at gmail.com (Crispin Harris) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:16:16 +0800 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <224BCA98-799F-4549-8E6F-4D31EF11480B@stilgherrian.com> References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> <224BCA98-799F-4549-8E6F-4D31EF11480B@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <397724a61003181916x51caec36x8de7bf344f071bf0@mail.gmail.com> This time I send it to the LIST rather than just Stilgherrian :_) On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Stilgherrian wrote: > On 19/03/2010, at 11:38 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: > > I suspect that "triples the latency" is a serious > > over-estimate. No, I don't have a simulator handy to experiment > > with, but presumably someone has). > > Don't need an experiment, Roger, it's east to demonstrate. And I'm about to > prove myself wrong by showing it's only double, not triple the latency. > > For any content not hosted in the next room, the major cause of latency > would be the travel time for the packets from client to server and back. > > Asking for content with HTTP: Trip 1 HTTP GET request sent. Trip 2 Data > returned. > > Checking with HTTP HEAD first: Trip 1 HTTP HEAD request sent. Trip 2 Data > returned. Trip 3 HTTP GET sent. Trip 4 Data returned. > > Close enough? > > Either way, the lag between requesting content an it starting to appear on > screen is the biggest factor in users deciding to skip off the site. I don't > see slowing this process down being much of an advantage. > > Then again, why are we even discussing this? Isn't worrying about this what > we have network engineer minions for? > > As one of those much-maligned engineering types maybe this is time for me to throw in 2c ? The major difference will come down to implementation of the session. Each time an application BEGINS negotiation of a TCP-based session, a number of things have to happen: [Three way handshake] Q: Anyone There? A: Yep, you there too? Q: Yep! Lets chat! [Data Session] Q: HTTP GET A: HTTP DATA Q: Thanks, got Blah1 A: OK, here is etc... Q: Thanks, got Blah2, Blah3 etc... [Finishing/cleanup] A: Finished now, Bye Q: Excellent, me too. Bye. Now if you have to do this twice, the connection initiation latency can really add up. Lets assume that you are getting your packets from somewhere inside australia, and thus your Round-Trip Time is less than 150ms. (if you are really lucky, and live in Sydney, your RTT may be 70ms or less - but we will run this simulation at 150ms). With a relatievely optimised session and no additional levels of back/forth the session above can transfer a 3.5kb no-image web page in aprox 600ms (to completion - about 300ms to initial data availability). MINIMUM decision time is RTT*2 (and this assumes that in-host turnaround is instantaneous, and that you don't have protocol-stack or application delays). If the process of HTTP HEAD, followed by HTTP GET closes a session and then opens a NEW session for the HTTP GET request, then the THEORETICAL MINIMUM time to (App-receive data) is RTT*4. If the response on the HTTP HEAD and/or HTTP GET is longer that 1300 bytes of content, then add a minimum of 1 instance of RTT for each. Also note: you cannot being retreiving any images until AFTER you have retreived the initial HTML page. As you can see from this discussion, **LATENCY** (round trip time) is the key determinant in page-load performance. and HTTP 300 redirect, any framesets and (non-serverside) includes substantially increase page load times because of the number of new session negotiations involved. If your RTT latency gets up over 300ms you can really feel the delay in page load. If the HTTP HEAD and HTTP GET is streamed in the same session, the times decrease somewhat. C > Stil > > > -- > Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ > Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia > mobile +61 407 623 600 > fax +61 2 8569 2006 > Twitter: stilgherrian > Skype: stilgherrian > ABN 25 231 641 421 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > -- Crispin Harris crispin.harris at gmail.com "A great deal of Security is unfortunately just like the underwear of Brittany Spears. If it's even there at all, it is needlessly complex and frilly; looks good without actually covering much; and is far to easy to get around or remove completely." - David Boston Marriage (n): a natural institution whereby a man and a woman give themselves to each other for life in an exclusive sexual relationship that is open to procreation. -Definition compliements of Cardinal George Pell, Catholic Archdioces of Synd From stephen at melbpc.org.au Fri Mar 19 13:32:14 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:32:14 GMT Subject: [LINK] Intel guide for multithreaded apps Message-ID: <20100319023214.DF4B774B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> On March 9, 2010 The Parallel Programming Community on the Intel Software Network published a collection of technical papers to provide software developers with the most current technical information on Application Threading, Synchronization, Memory Management and Programming Tools. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback and encourage you to participate in the discussion and ask question in our Threading on Intel? Parallel Architectures forum. The objective of the 'Intel Guide for Developing Multithreaded Applications' is to provide guidelines for developing efficient multithreaded applications across Intel-based symmetric multiprocessors (SMP) and/or systems with Hyper-Threading Technology. An application developer can use the advice in this document to improve multithreading performance and minimize unexpected performance variations on current as well as future SMP architectures built with Intel? processors. The Guide provides general advice on multithreaded performance. Hardware- specific optimizations have deliberately been kept to a minimum. In future versions of the Guide, topics covering hardware-specific optimizations will be added for developers willing to sacrifice portability for higher performance. Readers should have programming experience in a high-level language, preferably C, C++, and/or Fortran, though many of the recommendations in this document also apply to languages such as Java, C#, and Perl. Readers must also understand basic concurrent programming and be familiar with one or more threading methods, preferably OpenMP*, POSIX threads (also referred to as Pthreads), or the Win32* threading API. The main objective of the Guide is to provide a quick reference to design and optimization guidelines for multithreaded applications on Intel? platforms. This Guide is not intended to serve as a textbook on multithreading nor is it a porting guide to Intel platforms. -- Cheers, Stephen From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 19 14:11:50 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:11:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Google could be your next ISP' Message-ID: Google could be your next ISP ASHER MOSES The Sydney Morning Herald 18 March 2010 http://www.smh.com.au/technology/enterprise/google-could-be-your-next-isp-20100318-qgtr.html Google's geeks are taking over the world, starting with online services and now with network infrastructure. Internet behemoth Google now boasts a network that's bigger than all but two of the world's ISPs, and telcos fear the search giant is just one step away from becoming an ISP itself. US network measurement expert Arbor Networks this week released a new report claiming that, if Google were an ISP, it would be the fastest growing carrier in the world and the third largest globally. "Based on anonymous data from 110 ISPs around the world, we estimate Google contributes somewhere between 6-10 per cent of all internet traffic globally as of the summer of 2009," Arbor's chief scientist Craig Labovitz wrote. Instead of relying on third parties to deliver its services, the search giant has spent billions over the past several years building data centres spanning millions of square feet all over the world. Its equipment is in place at more than 60 public exchanges and, Labovitz said, over the past year the company has deployed its Google Global Cache servers in more than half of all large consumer networks in North America and Europe. Google has effectively cut out the middleman and now more than half of its traffic is sent directly from its servers to the world's consumer ISPs, Arbor revealed. Next, it could cut out the ISPs as well by offering internet plans itself. With a wealth of infrastructure already in place, Google recently announced it was taking the next step by building an experimental fibre-to-the-home network in parts of the US servicing initially between 50,000 and 500,000 homes. Google plans to connect these homes to the internet at blistering speeds of 1Gbps. By comparison, the upcoming National Broadband Network in Australia is predicted to offer about 100Mbps. "I think Google is gearing up to be potentially quite a formidable competitor to existing telcos and ISPs, given their moves into the infrastructure level," Warren Chaisatien, research director and principal analyst at Australian firm Telsyte, said. Indeed, at the recent Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, Google chief executive officer Eric Schmidt was heckled by telco representatives in the audience who feared that Google was increasingly competing with them not only on the infrastructure level, but also by selling its mobile phone, the Nexus One, directly to consumers online, and by releasing apps such as Google Voice, which allows users to bypass the networks to make voice calls. Schmidt stressed the Google was purely experimenting in an effort to see what was required to bring networks up to 1Gbps, which could pave the way for more exciting applications and convince telcos to upgrade their networks. Analysts aren't buying it. "I think what we are seeing today is that Google is conquering the world, starting from online content but now they are building infrastructure," Chaisatien said. Chaisatien believes that, in the next five to 10 years, the ISP, telecoms and utilities industries will merge to form "smart grids". He said this was "one of the key arenas that Google intends to play very strongly in". Steve Dalby, chief regulatory officer with iiNet, said the ISP saw Google as a significant player in the online world but did not fear it any more than other potential competitors. Peter Coroneos, chief executive of the Internet Industry Association, which counts both Google and the ISPs as members, said increasing competition between Google and telcos would only provide better outcomes for consumers. He pointed to the roll-out of cable networks in the US, which unlike in Australia are not controlled by existing telco players, but by companies traditionally in the television space. The end result is consumers get more choice and cheaper access to the internet. "What we're witnessing is technological convergence and, in the long term, people are going to be getting their internet access from many different sources," Coroneos said. "Change is necessarily painful but the successful well-managed companies will always adapt, and that's why in the face of the cable threat in the US the telcos are still profitable companies." Google's push into infrastructure will inevitably add to fears surrounding its overwhelming corporate power, and increase regulatory heat on the company. But Coroneos pointed out that Facebook this week overtook Google as the most trafficked site in the US, showing that dominance can never be assured. "Competition is important and we have very strong laws in Australia to prevent abuse of market power ... so you would expect our competition laws to keep it in check," he said. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From kim at holburn.net Fri Mar 19 14:33:52 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:33:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Google could be your next ISP' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E51F360-794E-45A7-81B3-D5CD664471C4@holburn.net> Interesting commentary here: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/03/google-traffic/ > Google?s Traffic Is Giant, Which Is Why It Should be Your ISP .... > Now much of that traffic comes from YouTube, since a three-minute > video is the traffic equivalent of thousands of pages of search > results ? but that?s still a staggering number for a single company. > > Moreover, Google has a dual strategy for moving away from paying top- > level internet transit providers to serve as the middleman between > its servers and the world?s consumer ISPs. > > Now, more than half of its transit traffic is sent to those networks > through direct peering relationships, according to the data ISPs > provide Arbor Networks anonymously. > > Moreover, Google has been deploying banks of servers inside those > same networks, so traffic to Google?s servers never has to leave an > ISP, cutting down on lag time and transit costs. Arbor estimates > that more than half of the ISPs in Europe and North America are home > to a bank of servers known as a Google Global Cache. > ... > So where does this all fit with Google?s prominent announcement that > it will test out a residential network that will bring internet > connections of 1 Gbps to hundreds of thousands of people?s homes? > > Well, it?s unlikely that Google will want to become a full-on ISP, > but the changes and innovation Google is showing highlights just how > important net transit is to its business. > > What should frighten the world?s current ISPs is that Google?s plans > call for working with a community to build infrastructure on which > any company can sell internet services, so long as they pay a fair > rate to use the infrastructure. If Google can come up with a > partnering model that costs them little or uses a revolving fund, > they could create a workable model for communities to get beyond > reliance on companies like Verizon and Comcast. Using some of > Google?s cash, a lot of its know-how and citizen dissatisfaction > with the current costs of not very fast broadband, municipalities > could forge a viable alternative to the current system of begging > and pleading for telecoms to lay fiber in their areas. > On 2010/Mar/19, at 2:11 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > Google could be your next ISP > ASHER MOSES > The Sydney Morning Herald > 18 March 2010 > http://www.smh.com.au/technology/enterprise/google-could-be-your-next-isp-20100318-qgtr.html > > Google's geeks are taking over the world, starting with online > services and now with network infrastructure. > > Internet behemoth Google now boasts a network that's bigger than all > but two of the world's ISPs, and telcos fear the search giant is just > one step away from becoming an ISP itself. > > US network measurement expert Arbor Networks this week released a new > report claiming that, if Google were an ISP, it would be the fastest > growing carrier in the world and the third largest globally. > > "Based on anonymous data from 110 ISPs around the world, we estimate > Google contributes somewhere between 6-10 per cent of all internet > traffic globally as of the summer of 2009," Arbor's chief scientist > Craig Labovitz wrote. > > Instead of relying on third parties to deliver its services, the > search giant has spent billions over the past several years building > data centres spanning millions of square feet all over the world. > > Its equipment is in place at more than 60 public exchanges and, > Labovitz said, over the past year the company has deployed its Google > Global Cache servers in more than half of all large consumer networks > in North America and Europe. > > Google has effectively cut out the middleman and now more than half > of its traffic is sent directly from its servers to the world's > consumer ISPs, Arbor revealed. Next, it could cut out the ISPs as > well by offering internet plans itself. > > With a wealth of infrastructure already in place, Google recently > announced it was taking the next step by building an experimental > fibre-to-the-home network in parts of the US servicing initially > between 50,000 and 500,000 homes. > > Google plans to connect these homes to the internet at blistering > speeds of 1Gbps. By comparison, the upcoming National Broadband > Network in Australia is predicted to offer about 100Mbps. > > "I think Google is gearing up to be potentially quite a formidable > competitor to existing telcos and ISPs, given their moves into the > infrastructure level," Warren Chaisatien, research director and > principal analyst at Australian firm Telsyte, said. > > Indeed, at the recent Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, Google > chief executive officer Eric Schmidt was heckled by telco > representatives in the audience who feared that Google was > increasingly competing with them not only on the infrastructure > level, but also by selling its mobile phone, the Nexus One, directly > to consumers online, and by releasing apps such as Google Voice, > which allows users to bypass the networks to make voice calls. > > Schmidt stressed the Google was purely experimenting in an effort to > see what was required to bring networks up to 1Gbps, which could pave > the way for more exciting applications and convince telcos to upgrade > their networks. > > Analysts aren't buying it. "I think what we are seeing today is that > Google is conquering the world, starting from online content but now > they are building infrastructure," Chaisatien said. > Chaisatien believes that, in the next five to 10 years, the ISP, > telecoms and utilities industries will merge to form "smart grids". > He said this was "one of the key arenas that Google intends to play > very strongly in". > > Steve Dalby, chief regulatory officer with iiNet, said the ISP saw > Google as a significant player in the online world but did not fear > it any more than other potential competitors. > > Peter Coroneos, chief executive of the Internet Industry Association, > which counts both Google and the ISPs as members, said increasing > competition between Google and telcos would only provide better > outcomes for consumers. > > He pointed to the roll-out of cable networks in the US, which unlike > in Australia are not controlled by existing telco players, but by > companies traditionally in the television space. The end result is > consumers get more choice and cheaper access to the internet. > > "What we're witnessing is technological convergence and, in the long > term, people are going to be getting their internet access from many > different sources," Coroneos said. > > "Change is necessarily painful but the successful well-managed > companies will always adapt, and that's why in the face of the cable > threat in the US the telcos are still profitable companies." > > Google's push into infrastructure will inevitably add to fears > surrounding its overwhelming corporate power, and increase regulatory > heat on the company. But Coroneos pointed out that Facebook this week > overtook Google as the most trafficked site in the US, showing that > dominance can never be assured. > > "Competition is important and we have very strong laws in Australia > to prevent abuse of market power ... so you would expect our > competition laws to keep it in check," he said. > > > -- > Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ > > Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 > AUSTRALIA > Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 > mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ > > Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of > NSW > Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National > University > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From marghanita at ramin.com.au Fri Mar 19 14:47:10 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:47:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: 'Google could be your next ISP' In-Reply-To: <5E51F360-794E-45A7-81B3-D5CD664471C4@holburn.net> References: <5E51F360-794E-45A7-81B3-D5CD664471C4@holburn.net> Message-ID: <4BA2F3BE.3060400@ramin.com.au> Kim Holburn wrote: > Interesting commentary here: > http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/03/google-traffic/ >> Google?s Traffic Is Giant, Which Is Why It Should be Your ISP > > On 2010/Mar/19, at 2:11 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > >> Google could be your next ISP >> ASHER MOSES >> The Sydney Morning Herald >> 18 March 2010 >> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/enterprise/google-could-be-your-next-isp-20100318-qgtr.html >> and....perhaps a sense of deja vu > In recent years > > In the United States and Canada, MSN is still a dial-up Internet service provider. MSN remains the second largest Internet service provider in the United States, behind dial-up leader AOL, which had retained about 10 million subscribers by the end of 2007.[17] MSN bundles its dial-up service with an e-mail account at MSN.com and security software such as firewall and anti-virus programs.[18] > > For customers with high-speed, broadband Internet access, MSN partnered with Verizon, Qwest, and Bell Sympatico. Verizon, Qwest, and Bell Canada provide the broadband connection and directly bill their customers. The included MSN software, known as 'MSN Premium,' offered a customized interface similar to the MSN 9 dial-up software and security features similar to the newer Windows Live OneCare security package. Subscribers received an MSN Firewall and MSN Virus Guard provided by McAfee, and the Webroot Spy Sweeper for MSN. The broadband Internet package from Microsoft has since transitioned to the Windows Live brand name. New customers of Verizon's broadband Internet service may only subscribe to Windows Live, not MSN Premium. Existing customers of MSN Premium who change to Windows Live may not revert back, because Microsoft has phased it out.[19] Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From foconnor at ozemail.com.au Fri Mar 19 15:19:32 2010 From: foconnor at ozemail.com.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:19:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Intel guide for multithreaded apps In-Reply-To: <20100319023214.DF4B774B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100319023214.DF4B774B@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: Mmmm, The problem at the moment is that multi-core and hyper-threaded technology is way beyond the current development tools, compilers, IDE's and techniques used in the development community. Software again trails hardware capabilities by a long margin. That's slowly changing, but I've yet to see any commercial software that make optimal use of the hardware that's currently out there. Regards, At 2:32 AM +0000 19/3/10, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: >multithreaded-applications/> > > >On March 9, 2010 The Parallel Programming Community on the Intel Software >Network published a collection of technical papers to provide software >developers with the most current technical information on Application >Threading, Synchronization, Memory Management and Programming Tools. > > > >We look forward to your thoughts and feedback and encourage you to >participate in the discussion and ask question in our Threading on Intel? >Parallel Architectures forum. > >The objective of the 'Intel Guide for Developing Multithreaded >Applications' is to provide guidelines for developing efficient >multithreaded applications across Intel-based symmetric multiprocessors >(SMP) and/or systems with Hyper-Threading Technology. > >An application developer can use the advice in this document to improve >multithreading performance and minimize unexpected performance variations >on current as well as future SMP architectures built with Intel? >processors. > >The Guide provides general advice on multithreaded performance. Hardware- >specific optimizations have deliberately been kept to a minimum. In >future versions of the Guide, topics covering hardware-specific >optimizations will be added for developers willing to sacrifice >portability for higher performance. > >Readers should have programming experience in a high-level language, >preferably C, C++, and/or Fortran, though many of the recommendations in >this document also apply to languages such as Java, C#, and Perl. > >Readers must also understand basic concurrent programming and be familiar >with one or more threading methods, preferably OpenMP*, POSIX threads >(also referred to as Pthreads), or the Win32* threading API. > >The main objective of the Guide is to provide a quick reference to design >and optimization guidelines for multithreaded applications on Intel? >platforms. This Guide is not intended to serve as a textbook on >multithreading nor is it a porting guide to Intel platforms. > >-- > >Cheers, >Stephen > >_______________________________________________ >Link mailing list >Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Fri Mar 19 18:56:40 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:56:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <8heh0f$21b402@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> An ACS Task Force report analysing filtering. Identifies a lot of technical issues https://www.acs.org.au/attachments/2009/ispfilteringoct09.pdf copyright 2009 Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Fri Mar 19 19:35:37 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:35:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] pirate versus paid experience Message-ID: <8heh0f$21bbbj@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> For a Friday: >Pirate vs Paying Customer user experience case study.. > >http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg >--------- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From mail at ozzmosis.com Fri Mar 19 20:09:27 2010 From: mail at ozzmosis.com (andrew clarke) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:09:27 +1100 Subject: [LINK] pirate versus paid experience In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$21bbbj@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <8heh0f$21bbbj@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <20100319090927.GA22757@ozzmosis.com> On Fri 2010-03-19 19:35:37 UTC+1100, Jan Whitaker (jwhit at melbpc.org.au) wrote: > For a Friday: > > >Pirate vs Paying Customer user experience case study.. > > > >http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg Related, "Why DRM Doesn't Work", wrt e-books: http://www.bradcolbow.com/archive.php/?p=205 Regards Andrew From kim at holburn.net Fri Mar 19 20:37:51 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:37:51 +1100 Subject: [LINK] pirate versus paid experience In-Reply-To: <20100319090927.GA22757@ozzmosis.com> References: <8heh0f$21bbbj@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> <20100319090927.GA22757@ozzmosis.com> Message-ID: <2940C1DA-E022-48AD-8F4E-558839FFFC76@holburn.net> Raise you xkcd: http://xkcd.com/488/ On 2010/Mar/19, at 8:09 PM, andrew clarke wrote: > On Fri 2010-03-19 19:35:37 UTC+1100, Jan Whitaker > (jwhit at melbpc.org.au) wrote: > >> For a Friday: >> >>> Pirate vs Paying Customer user experience case study.. >>> >>> http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg > > Related, "Why DRM Doesn't Work", wrt e-books: > > http://www.bradcolbow.com/archive.php/?p=205 > > Regards > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From stephen at melbpc.org.au Sat Mar 20 01:42:10 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:42:10 GMT Subject: [LINK] a-books Message-ID: <20100319144210.14981D3@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Andrew writes, wrt e-books: http://www.bradcolbow.com/archive.php/?p=205 And vaguely related (ok, almost completely un-related) one wonders that since the term 'e-books' has been nabbed for text-based files, what will the short-form name for audio file books become? a-books? Whatever, http://www.audioowl.com have thousands of them, for free. Cheers Stephen Message sent using MelbPC WebMail Server From stil at stilgherrian.com Sat Mar 20 07:43:39 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:43:39 +1100 Subject: [LINK] ACS new? submission on ISP filtering In-Reply-To: <8heh0f$21b402@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> References: <2010318231252.991152@C989> <1268953939.2084.11.camel@ilion> <8801A6D5-9E96-484D-9E65-7BAAED45A89C@stilgherrian.com> <8heh0f$21b402@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> Message-ID: On 19/03/2010, at 6:56 PM, Jan Whitaker wrote: > An ACS Task Force report analysing filtering. Identifies a lot of > technical issues > > https://www.acs.org.au/attachments/2009/ispfilteringoct09.pdf > > copyright 2009 I must admit, when that ACS report was released October 2009 I was underwhelmed. I thought it just outlined what we already knew and then sat on the fence. "Conroy can cherry-pick numbers, and cherry-pick quotes from the ACS, to justify whichever path he chooses. Or, he can take on board the ACS suggestions to further clarify the policy, delay everything until the next election, and hope Fielding gets voted out." http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/security/soa/ACS-filter-report-just-what-Conroy-needs/0,139023764,339299029,00.htm Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Sun Mar 21 10:56:37 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:56:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Sydney Metro Website Still Available Online Message-ID: <4BA560B5.40701@tomw.net.au> Media reports indicate concern that the website of the abolished Sydney Metro Authority is no longer publicly available. However, it has been cached by Google (3 Feb 2010 01:06:28 GMT): . I suggest the NSW government adopt the practice of the Federal Government and retain such web pages at their original address, but add a header to indicate the material is no longer current. This practice was adopted when there was the first change of government after adoption of the web by government (I recall the interdepartmental meeting where it was discussed). Also the National Library of Australia might like to put a copy in their Pandora Archive . Obviously details of a failed project which wasted hundreds of millions of dollars is an embarrassment to the NSW government, but attempting to suppress the information is unlikely to improve the situation. --- ... Greens transport spokeswoman Lee Rhiannon is concerned the archiving of Metro-related documents, which is already under way, increases the risk that important information will disappear from the public record. ''What's not clear is what material will be available to the public now the website has been taken down. The minister needs to give a clear public guarantee that the archiving process is being co-ordinated properly and that all material on the public record will remain on the public record,'' she said. ... From: "Call for inquiry over $500m poured into doomed Metro", DANIELLE TEUTSCH AND MATTHEW BENNS, SMH, March 21, 2010: . --- -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Mon Mar 22 08:49:36 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:49:36 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Hacker runs amok with remote cars Message-ID: <8kdreu$41jbiq@ipmail06.adl6.internode.on.net> >Hacker Disables More Than 100 Cars Remotely > >More than 100 drivers in Austin, Texas found their cars disabled or >the horns honking out of control, after an intruder ran amok in a >web-based vehicle-immobilization system normally used to get the >attention of consumers delinquent in their auto payments. >... > >The dealership used a system called Webtech Plus as an alternative >to repossessing vehicles that haven't been paid for. Operated by >Cleveland-based Pay Technologies, the system lets car dealers >install a small black box under vehicle dashboards that responds to >commands issued through a central website, and relayed over a >wireless pager network. The dealer can disable a car's ignition >system, or trigger the horn to begin honking, as a reminder that a >payment is due. The system will not stop a running vehicle. > >Read More >http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/hacker-bricks-cars/#ixzz0iq3wfmAq Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Mar 22 09:14:49 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:14:49 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Sydney Metro Website Still Available Online Message-ID: <4BA69A59.5020207@tomw.net.au> Media reports indicate concern that the website of the abolished Sydney Metro Authority is no longer publicly available. However, it has been cached by Google (3 Feb 2010 01:06:28 GMT): . I suggest the NSW government adopt the practice of some federal departments and retain such web pages at their original address, but add a header to indicate the material is no longer current: : This practice was adopted when there was the first change of government after adoption of the web by government (I recall the interdepartmental meeting where it was discussed). This practice is also followed by some US federal and state agencies: . Obviously details of a failed project which wasted hundreds of millions of dollars is an embarrassment to the NSW government, but attempting to suppress the information is unlikely to improve the situation. --- ... Greens transport spokeswoman Lee Rhiannon is concerned the archiving of Metro-related documents, which is already under way, increases the risk that important information will disappear from the public record. ''What's not clear is what material will be available to the public now the website has been taken down. The minister needs to give a clear public guarantee that the archiving process is being co-ordinated properly and that all material on the public record will remain on the public record,'' she said. ... From: "Call for inquiry over $500m poured into doomed Metro", DANIELLE TEUTSCH AND MATTHEW BENNS, SMH, March 21, 2010: . --- -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Mon Mar 22 10:02:27 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:02:27 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Vic 'App My State Hack Day' In-Reply-To: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4BA6A583.1020702@ramin.com.au> stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > App My State Hack Day > --------------------- > When: 10-11 April > Wrap up of Saturday's apps4nsw hackfest Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au Mon Mar 22 13:35:16 2010 From: Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au (Pilcher, Fred) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:35:16 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Spam In-Reply-To: <4BA6A583.1020702@ramin.com.au> References: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BA6A583.1020702@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE747D4@cal066.act.gov.au> Got an e-mail at work today from this mob: http://cecaust.com.au/ Who do I report Australian-sourced spam to these days? Fred ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From nospam at ggcs.net.au Mon Mar 22 13:43:24 2010 From: nospam at ggcs.net.au (James Collins) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:43:24 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Spam In-Reply-To: <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE747D4@cal066.act.gov.au> References: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BA6A583.1020702@ramin.com.au> <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE747D4@cal066.act.gov.au> Message-ID: <007401cac969$71388900$53a99b00$@net.au> Although it definitely IS spam, the government anti-spam legislation doesn't recognise it as such, since it not from a Commercial operation. Ref: http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_310294 James :) Collins -----Original Message----- From: link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au [mailto:link-bounces at mailman1.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of Pilcher, Fred Sent: Monday, 22 March 2010 12:35 PM To: Link at anu.edu.au Subject: [LINK] Spam Got an e-mail at work today from this mob: http://cecaust.com.au/ Who do I report Australian-sourced spam to these days? Fred ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Link mailing list Link at mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au Mon Mar 22 14:23:15 2010 From: Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au (Pilcher, Fred) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:23:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Spam In-Reply-To: <007401cac969$71388900$53a99b00$@net.au> References: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BA6A583.1020702@ramin.com.au><04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE747D4@cal066.act.gov.au> <007401cac969$71388900$53a99b00$@net.au> Message-ID: <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE74818@cal066.act.gov.au> James wrote: > Although it definitely IS spam, the government anti-spam legislation > doesn't > recognise it as such, since it not from a Commercial operation. Ah yes. Thanks. Pity, that. Fred ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Mon Mar 22 15:41:50 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:41:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Telstra stops installing new copper Message-ID: <4BA6F50E.6090205@hunterlink.net.au> > ''The higher cost of fibre means it's not viable for us to provide > fibre to the premise, without a contribution from developers,'' What is the cost differential, given that Telstra would have to provide labour, equipment, ducting, etc. anyway? Telstra blocks sale of houses MATTHEW MOORE March 22, 2010 THOUSANDS of new houses will be delayed from coming onto the market, and will cost up to $3000 more, because of a sudden decision by Telstra to stop installing copper phone lines, large developers warn. Telstra has told developers it has immediately ceased installing copper phone connections in greenfields developments due to a federal government requirement for fibre optic cable in new housing from July 1. Stephen Albin, the head of the Urban Development Institute of Australia in NSW, the largest group representing developers of new housing projects, said the decision last Thursday had caught many developers by surprise and would cause long delays in selling homes, exacerbating the housing shortage. He said developers would not be able to get certificates to satisfy councils that telephone services have been installed. Without those certificates, developers could not sell the properties. Mr Albin said he expected the decision by Telstra would effect ''scores of developers'' and ''thousands'' of homes. An email sent from Telstra's Urban Development Manager, Jeoffrey Keogh, to developers on Thursday said that ''based on government announcements, we expect new legislation to commence from 1 July 2010 that mandates the provision of fibre-to-the-premise (FTTP) technology in new housing developments. ''As a result, Telstra has changed its policy regarding the installation of telecommunications network infrastructure in greenfields developments ? Where the developer has not made arrangements to have FTTP infrastructure installed, Telstra will no longer deploy copper cable.'' While copper was provided free, Mr Keogh told developers it may ''require'' them to pay a contribution towards the cost of installing fibre optic cables. Fibre optic cable will provide a better service, but Mr Albin said many companies were in the midst of negotiating the installation of copper when Telstra announced its decision. ''It seems like an entirely commercial decision ? it's quite an aggressive move,'' he said. He said Telstra should have provided a transition period until July 1 so that companies would not be forced to begin new rounds of negotiations with Telstra or other providers to install communications and find the money to cover the extra costs. Some companies had been told these would be around $3000. The costs will only be levied on greenfield sites. They will be met by the National Broadband Network in existing urban areas. A Telstra spokesman denied the decision had been made on Thursday and said it had been announced at an Urban Development Institute of Australia conference a week earlier. He said the decision was a response to the government's policy that ''greenfields estates be wired with fibre rather than with copper''. ''The higher cost of fibre means it's not viable for us to provide fibre to the premise, without a contribution from developers,'' he said. The new greenfield requirements are part of preparations for the government's forthcoming $43 billion National Broadband Network. Telstra and the government are embroiled in difficult negotiations over what communications infrastructure will become part of the network. Legislation to pave the way for a separation of Telstra's infrastructure and retail arms has also stalled in the Senate. The government delayed a vote last week after crossbench senators refused to offer their support. -- David Boxall | When a distinguished but elderly | scientist states that something is http://david.boxall.id.au | possible, he is almost certainly | right. When he states that | something is impossible, he is | very probably wrong. --Arthur C. Clarke From gdt at gdt.id.au Mon Mar 22 15:44:45 2010 From: gdt at gdt.id.au (Glen Turner) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:14:45 +1030 Subject: [LINK] BigPond gives short notice for end of modifications of keys to DRMed WMA music Message-ID: <4BA6F5BD.2070805@gdt.id.au> Here's why you should not buy your music with Digital Rights Management. Less than a month's notice to their longest customers that their investment in products from BigPond Music will be worthless when they next upgrade their computer. The Trade Practices Act talks about availability of spare parts, it's well time s74F of the Act was updated to include DRM schemes. > *Dear BigPond? Music Member,* > > BigPond Music won't be supporting the Windows > Media Audio ('WMA') file format after 1 April > 2010. That means you won't be able to download new > DRM (Digital > Rights Management) 'unlock' keys for the WMA files > you've bought from us already > - so you should back up your music now. > > Any MP3 files you've bought from us won't be > affected. Read further if you want to know more > about WMA files. > > *Here's why you should back up your music.* > > As long as you keep using the same computer and > operating system, you shouldn't have any trouble > playing your WMA music files. But if you try to > move them onto a new computer or operating system, > they won't work if you don't transfer their DRM > keys as well. > > Besides, backing up your collection is a good idea > - for your MP3 files too. > > *So here's what to do.* > > You can back up your music collection now, by either: > > 1. Burning it to audio CD (Click here > > > to find out how.) > > 2. Backing up your WMA files and licences > separately (See how to do it here > .) > > *Additional information on WMA's & DRM.* > > All our music was in the secure WMA file format > when BigPond Music started. Whenever you > downloaded a WMA file you downloaded it's > encrypted Digital Rights > Management ('DRM') code at the same time. > > DRM is a kind of lock and key system. The key > unlocks the music so that it'll only play on your > software. The downside of this security is that > WMA downloads > don't work on popular systems like Apple's iPod > and iTunes software. It's also hard to move WMA > files without downloading a new licence key. > > We started selling MP3 files without any DRM or > licence key restrictions in August 2008. MP3's are > a much more universal format that works on most > digital music players and software. We stopped > selling WMA files in March 2009, and only offer > MP3 music now. > > *The BigPond Music Team* -- Glen Turner From bpa at iss.net.au Mon Mar 22 15:49:32 2010 From: bpa at iss.net.au (Brenda Aynsley) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:19:32 +1030 Subject: [LINK] Telstra stops installing new copper In-Reply-To: <4BA6F50E.6090205@hunterlink.net.au> References: <4BA6F50E.6090205@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: <4BA6F6DC.2000708@iss.net.au> David Boxall wrote: >> ''The higher cost of fibre means it's not viable for us to provide >> fibre to the premise, without a contribution from developers,'' > What is the cost differential, given that Telstra would have to provide > labour, equipment, ducting, etc. anyway? > > > Telstra blocks sale of houses > > MATTHEW MOORE > > March 22, 2010 > > THOUSANDS of new houses will be delayed from coming onto the market, and > will cost up to $3000 more, because of a sudden decision by Telstra to > stop installing copper phone lines, large developers warn. > who cares, aren't we being told everyone now is using 3g and mobiles for data and voice? Oh wait a minute, isnt it telstra that has the highest coverage rate for these services so that no matter where the development is, telstra is likely to be able to meet that need? And didnt they just offer a very reasonable package to 3g data/voice bundled with home and one other service for $29 per month ... but wait no copper! Sigh cant take advantage of it ... or am I being my usual cynical self again? cheers brenda -- Brenda Aynsley, FACS, PCP, HLM, ACCE Associate Vice President Australian Computer Society (ACS) Director Community Affairs Board, ACS Immediate Past Chairman ACS SA Branch www.acs.org.au/sa -- Director Oz Business Partners http://www.ozbusinesspartners.com/ Mobile:+61(0) 412 662 988 || Skype/Yahoo/Twitter: baynsley Phone:08 7127 0107 : 08 8357 8844 Fax:08 8272 7486 -- *Produced by Ubuntu and Mozilla Thunderbird* From brd at iimetro.com.au Mon Mar 22 15:51:33 2010 From: brd at iimetro.com.au (Bernard Robertson-Dunn) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:51:33 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Australian Government Data Centre Strategy Message-ID: <45854.1269233493@iimetro.com.au> On http://www.finance.gov.au/ The Australian Government has endorsed the Data Centre Strategy as the whole-of-government approach to future data centre requirements. http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/infrastructure/docs/AGDC_Strategy.pdf -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia brd at iimetro.com.au From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Mon Mar 22 15:53:53 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:53:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The iGeneration? Message-ID: <4BA6F7E1.6040708@hunterlink.net.au> I should have known it was a mistake, buying a place without a habitable cave. By Sharon Jayson, USA TODAY Move over, Millennials. You're not the younger generation anymore. For the past decade, you were the ones to watch. But now, as the eldest among you are fast approaching 30, there's a new group just begging for some attention. They're still kids, and although there's a lot the experts don't yet know about them, one thing they do agree on is that what kids use and expect from their world has changed rapidly. And it's all because of technology. "It's simply a part of their DNA," says Dave Verhaagen, a child and adolescent psychologist in Charlotte. "It shapes everything about them." To the psychologists, sociologists, and generational and media experts who study them, their digital gear sets this new group (yet unnamed by any powers that be) apart, even from their tech-savvy Millennial elders. They want to be constantly connected and available in a way even their older siblings don't quite get. These differences may appear slight, but they signal an all-encompassing sensibility that some say marks the dawning of a new generation. "The current generation seems to be moving well into adulthood, and there seems to be another generation setting itself up as a contrast to it," says Neil Howe, a historian and demographer who has co-written several books on the generations. Kathryn Montgomery, a communication professor at American University in Washington, D.C., and author of the 2007 book /Generation Digital/, hears similar stories from her students. "They tell me their younger siblings have different relationships with these technologies," she says. The difference is that these younger kids "don't remember a time without the constant connectivity to the world that these technologies bring," she says. "They're growing up with expectations of always being present in a social way ? always being available to peers wherever you are." The contrast between Millennials and this younger group was so evident to psychologist Larry Rosen of California State University-Dominguez Hills that he has declared the birth of a new generation in a new book, /Rewired: Understanding the iGeneration and the Way They Learn/, out next month. Rosen says the tech-dominated life experience of those born since the early 1990s is so different from the Millennials he wrote about in his 2007 book, /Me, MySpace and I: Parenting the Net Generation/, that they warrant the distinction of a new generation, which he has dubbed the "iGeneration." "The technology is the easiest way to see it, but it's also a mind-set, and the mind-set goes with the little 'i,' which I'm taking to stand for 'individualized,' " Rosen says. "Everything is customized and individualized to 'me.' My music choices are customizable to 'me.' What I watch on TV any instant is customizable to 'me.' " He says the iGeneration includes today's teens and middle-schoolers, but it's too soon to tell about elementary-school ages and younger. Wendy Nokes, a seventh-grader in Winchester, Va., got a cellphone last year when she was 12 and is always in touch with friends. "I have it 24/7," Wendy says. "Sometimes I have to be: 'I'm going to sleep now. Stop texting me.' " Rosen identifies 13 distinct iGeneration traits, including: ?Early introduction to technology. ?Adeptness at multitasking. ?Desire for immediacy. ?Ability to use technology to create a vast array of "content." That's no surprise to Kiley Krzyzek, 15, a high school sophomore in West Hartford, Conn. "A lot of my friends post videos on each other's Facebook walls" using webcams, she says. *Starting young * Rosen says the iGeneration believes anything is possible. "If they can think of it, somebody probably has or will invent it," he says. "They expect innovation." They have high expectations that whatever they want or can use "will be able to be tailored to their own needs and wishes and desires, because everything is." Rosen says portability is key. They are inseparable from their wireless devices, which allow them to text as well as talk, so they can be constantly connected ? even in class, where cellphones are supposedly banned. Verhaagen says this continual contact with peers isn't limited to teens, either. "We're seeing children in third and fourth grade have the ability to get online and chat or have their own cellphone," he says. "Their relationships are taking a more adolescent tone." Even preschoolers aren't immune. Although it's just pretend, Wendy Noke's sister Kaci, 3, has a collection of nine cellphones; four are the non-working cast-offs of family members, and the others are plastic, including Cinderella, Tinker Bell and Dora the Explorer varieties. She also has a plastic pink-and-purple Barbie laptop, which has its own mouse and programs that teach math, vowels and Spanish, as well as some computer games. Kaci is pretty adept at the laptop, says her mother, Lisa Nokes, as are the preschoolers Nokes supervises as a day-care provider. "It's mainly Disney.com," says Nokes, 38. "They have a lot of easy games that we do together." Rosen's research found 35% of those ages 6 months to 3 years have a TV in their bedroom; 10% ages 4-8 have a computer in their bedroom; and 51% of those ages 9-12 have a cellphone. "You have kids from 18 months old who have a mouse in their hands," Verhaagen says. "That's going to make a big difference in how their brains work." Many researchers are trying to determine whether technology somehow causes the brains of young people to be wired differently. Based on some research related to multitasking, Rosen says, he's inclined to believe some "rewiring" is going on. "They should be distracted and should perform more poorly than they do," he says. But findings show teens "survive distractions much better than we would predict by their age and their brain development." Researchers also are studying how preschoolers and infants deal with media exposure, both made for them and the exposure they get when parents or siblings are in the same room, using video games, TV or other content. Psychologist Sandra Calvert, director of the Children's Digital Media Center at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., says many interactive computer games today are designed for ages 2 and under. "It's a whole change in terms of how children are growing up," she says. "You used to start off with books, and now you start off with media from Day One. It's not that books have disappeared, but video is also pervasive." *Shorter generations * Whether middle- and high-schoolers are really a separate generation, as Rosen suggests, or "late-wave Millennials" isn't clear; Howe believes the latter. "I think you're going to find a lot of disagreement about this," Rosen says. "I don't think you can define a generation when you're in the middle of it. The best you can do is try to characterize the similarities and differences and the overlap." He suggests, however, that new generations arise based on their use of new technologies; he says identifiable new generational groups are emerging more frequently than in the past. The Baby Boom generation, for example, most often thought of as those born from 1946 through 1964, lasted almost 20 years. But Generation X , born from about 1965 through 1980, was five years shorter. And the Millennials (also known as Gen Y) appear to be about 10 years, he suggests. Amanda Lenhart, a senior research specialist with the Pew Internet & American Life Project, notes that "there is usually a subset of kids who don't really text-message and are not that into it. It's important to recognize there are variations." *Info at fingertips * Because these kids are more immersed and at younger ages, Rosen says, the educational system has to change significantly. "The growth curve on the use of technology with children is exponential, and we run the risk of being out of step with this generation as far as how they learn and how they think," Rosen says. "We have to give them options because they want their world individualized." Verhaagen agrees. "They know almost every piece of information they want is at their disposal whenever they need it," Verhaagen says. "They're less interested in learning facts and learning data than in knowing how to gain access to it and synthesize it and integrate it into their life. We're talking about kids in elementary school and up and talking about much younger children who know how to get ahold of information. Their brains are developing in ways where they're taking in astronomical amounts of information, screening out unimportant details and focusing on the parts they need." Even for kids like Kiley Krzyzek, who didn't know a world before the Internet, these rapid changes are striking. She got a cellphone when she was 12. "Now kids are getting cellphones when they're, like, in fifth grade," she says. "Which I think is crazy." -- David Boxall | Drink no longer water, | but use a little wine http://david.boxall.id.au | for thy stomach's sake ... | King James Bible | 1 Timothy 5:23 From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Mon Mar 22 16:07:12 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:07:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Wi-Fi Turns Rowdy Bus Into Rolling Study Hall Message-ID: <4BA6FB00.9060700@hunterlink.net.au> After 16 years commuting more than three hours per day, I can see advantages in this. By SAM DILLON Published: February 11, 2010 VAIL, Ariz. ? Students endure hundreds of hours on yellow buses each year getting to and from school in this desert exurb of Tucson, and stir-crazy teenagers break the monotony by teasing, texting, flirting, shouting, climbing (over seats) and sometimes punching (seats or seatmates). But on this chilly morning, as bus No. 92 rolls down a mountain highway just before dawn, high school students are quiet, typing on laptops. Morning routines have been like this since the fall, when school officials mounted a mobile Internet router to bus No. 92?s sheet-metal frame, enabling students to surf the Web. The students call it the Internet Bus, and what began as a high-tech experiment has had an old-fashioned ? and unexpected ? result. Wi-Fi access has transformed what was often a boisterous bus ride into a rolling study hall, and behavioral problems have virtually disappeared. ?It?s made a big difference,? said J. J. Johnson, the bus?s driver. ?Boys aren?t hitting each other, girls are busy, and there?s not so much jumping around.? On this morning, John O?Connell, a junior at Empire High School here, is pecking feverishly at his MacBook, touching up an essay on World War I for his American history class. Across the aisle, 16-year-old Jennifer Renner e-mails her friend Patrick to meet her at the bus park in half an hour. Kyle Letarte, a sophomore, peers at his screen, awaiting acknowledgment from a teacher that he has just turned in his biology homework, electronically. ?Got it, thanks,? comes the reply from Michael Frank, Kyle?s teacher. Internet buses may soon be hauling children to school in many other districts, particularly those with long bus routes. The company marketing the router, Autonet Mobile , says it has sold them to schools or districts in Florida, Missouri and Washington, D.C. Karen Cator, director of education technology at the federal Department of Education, said the buses were part of a wider effort to use technology to extend learning beyond classroom walls and the six-hour school day. The Vail District, with 18 schools and 10,000 students, is sprawled across 425 square miles of subdivision, mesquite and mountain ridges southeast of Tucson. Many parents work at local Raytheon and I.B.M. plants. Others are ranchers. The district has taken technological initiatives before. In 2005, it inaugurated Empire High as a digital school, with the district issuing students laptops instead of textbooks, and more than 100 built-in wireless access points offering a powerful Internet signal in every classroom and even on the football field. ?We have enough wireless to make your fillings hurt,? says Matt Federoff, the district?s chief information officer. District officials got the idea for wiring the bus during occasional drives on school business to Phoenix, two hours each way, when they realized that if they doubled up, one person could drive and the other could work using a laptop and a wireless card. They wondered if Internet access on a school bus would increase students? academic productivity, too. But the idea for the Internet Bus really took shape in the fall, when Mr. Federoff was at home, baby on his lap, and saw an advertisement in an electronics catalog offering a ?Wi-Fi hotspot in your car.? ?I thought, what if you could put that in a bus?? he said. The router cost $200, and came with a $60 a month Internet service contract. An early test came in December, when bus No. 92 carried the boys? varsity soccer team to a tournament nearly four hours away. The ride began at 4 a.m., so many players and coaches slept en route. But between games, with the bus in a parking lot adjacent to the soccer field, players and coaches sat with laptops, fielding e-mail messages and doing homework ? basically turning the bus into a Wi-Fi cafe, said Cody Bingham, the bus driver for the trip. Mariah Nunes, a sophomore who is a team manager, said she researched an essay on bicycle safety. ?I used my laptop for pretty much the whole ride,? Mariah said. ?It was quieter than it normally would have been. Everybody was pumped about the games, and there were some rowdy boys. But the coach said, ?Let?s all be quiet and do some homework.? And it wasn?t too different from study hall.? Ms. Bingham recalled, ?That was the quietest ride I?ve ever had with high schoolers.? Since then, district officials have been delighted to see the amount of homework getting done, morning and evening, as Mr. Johnson picks up and drops off students along the highway that climbs from Vail through the Santa Rita mountains to Sonoita. The drive takes about 70 minutes each way. One recent afternoon, with a wintry rain pelting the bus, 18-year-old Jeanette Roelke used her laptop to finish and send in an assignment on tax policy for her American government class. Students were not just doing homework, of course. Even though Dylan Powell, a freshman, had vowed to devote the ride home to an algebra assignment, he instead called up a digital keyboard using GarageBand, a music-making program, and spent the next half-hour with earphones on, pretending to be a rock star, banging on the keys of his laptop and swaying back and forth in his seat. Two seats to the rear, Jerod Reyes, another freshman, was playing SAS, an online shooting game in which players fire a machine gun at attacking zombies. Vail?s superintendent, Calvin Baker, says he knew from the start that some students would play computer games. ?That?s a whole lot better than having them bugging each other,? Mr. Baker said. -- David Boxall | The more that wise people learn | The more they come to appreciate http://david.boxall.id.au | How much they don't know. --Confucius From scott at doc.net.au Mon Mar 22 16:53:07 2010 From: scott at doc.net.au (Scott Howard) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:53:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] BigPond gives short notice for end of modifications of keys to DRMed WMA music In-Reply-To: <4BA6F5BD.2070805@gdt.id.au> References: <4BA6F5BD.2070805@gdt.id.au> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Glen Turner wrote: > > Here's why you should not buy your music with Digital Rights > Management. Less than a month's notice to their longest > customers that their investment in products from BigPond Music > will be worthless when they next upgrade their computer. Unless you're reading something I'm not, I suspect you missed the phrase "... unless you do not back them up correctly first" from that statement. >> As long as you keep using the same computer and >> operating system, you shouldn't have any trouble >> playing your WMA music files. But if you try to >> move them onto a new computer or operating system, >> they won't work *if you don't transfer their DRM* >> *keys as well.* Scott From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Mon Mar 22 17:19:11 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:19:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Telstra stops installing new copper In-Reply-To: <4BA6F50E.6090205@hunterlink.net.au> References: <4BA6F50E.6090205@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: <8heh0f$22bpe3@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> At 03:41 PM 22/03/2010, David Boxall wrote: >THOUSANDS of new houses will be delayed from coming onto the market, and >will cost up to $3000 more, because of a sudden decision by Telstra to >stop installing copper phone lines, large developers warn. Looks like an opening in the market for other providers, no? What happened to the USO? Isn't that a breach when they refuse to install phone services? Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Mar 22 18:25:07 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:25:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australian Government Data Centre Strategy In-Reply-To: <45854.1269233493@iimetro.com.au> References: <45854.1269233493@iimetro.com.au> Message-ID: <4BA71B53.4010404@tomw.net.au> Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > ... Australian Government has endorsed the Data Centre Strategy ... > http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/infrastructure/docs/AGDC_Strategy.pdf The document is remarkably succinct and clearly written (7 pages PDF 266 Kbytes). It follows much the same approach as already detailed in the Queensland Government Enterprise Architecture Data Centres Policy (December 2009): . Participation in the data centre strategy is mandatory for most federal government departments and optional for some agencies. In the first five years, the aim is to define standards, establish a panel for data centre facilities and services and assist early adopters. The interim data centre panel is expected to cease by late 2010. The minimum floor space for new centres leased will be 500 square metres, over 10 years (with five year extensions). The strategy estimates a saving of $35 million per annum in electricity costs, and a reduction in the carbon footprint of 13 per cent (40,000 tonnes per annum of CO2e) from using modern data centres. It also suggests further reductions by exploiting "free cooling" where the air temperature is below 16?C. I could find little to criticise in the report, apart from a minor quibble that some of the specialist research reports and benchmarking data it is based on do not yet appear to have been released (in accordance with government policy). It will be difficult to assess the soundness of the proposed strategy in detail until the underlying work it is based on is released. Also the document was released in a hard to read PDF format, rather than as a true electronic document. As a result the document is five times larger than it need be. If this applies to Commonwealth applications in general, then savings from revising applications would dwarf any savings from the data centre strategy. For details of the how and why of such green data centre strategies, see my book "Green Technology Strategies": . Several government staff and data centre vendors have already undertaken the accompanying course at ANU and ACS to implement the strategy. The course will be widely available in second semester 2010 via Open Universities Australia to students of Curtin University, Griffith University, Macquarie University, Monash University, RMIT University, Swinburne University and the University of South Australia. More at: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Mon Mar 22 20:48:34 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:48:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Every [UK] citizen to have page for dealing with govt Message-ID: [Oh yes, and a national ID scheme. [And fewer counter-services, and reduced/slower call centre-services. [And it's to be a public-private partnership, presumably with Google ...] Every citizen to have personal webpage The [London] Daily Telegraph Published: 8:30AM GMT 20 Mar 2010 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7484600/Every-citizen-to-have-personal-webpage.html Everyone in the country is to be given a personalised webpage for accessing Government services within a year as part of a plan to save billions of pounds by putting all public services online, Gordon Brown is to announce. The Prime Minister has previously hailed the potential for the internet to slash the costs of delivering services by reducing paper forms, face-to-face contact with officials, postage, phone calls and building costs. He is now set to use a speech on Monday to unveil plans to give every voter a unique identifier allowing them to apply for school places, book GP appointments, claim benefits, get a new passport, pay council tax or register a car. Within another three years, the Times reported, the secure site would include a Facebook-style interactive service allowing people to ask medical advice of their doctor or consult their children's teachers. The move could see the closure of job centres and physical offices dealing with tax, vehicle licensing, passports and housing benefit within 10 years as services were offered through a single digital ''gateway'', Downing Street sources told the newspaper. Private firms such as Amazon could be involved in a bid to make the processes as simple as possible, it said. But the proposals came under fire from union leaders who complained that thousands of public sector workers would be made jobless and pointed to the Government's poor record of handling personal data. Questions have also been raised about the impact on some older people unable to use the internet. Mark Serwotka, general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union, said: ''Cutting public services is not only bad for the public who use services but also the economy as we are pushing people who provide valuable services on the dole.'' Among the Prime Minister's advisers on the drive to put services online is world wide web inventor Sir Tim Berners-Lee. ''I don't want to go to a government office to do a government thing. It should all be online. That saves time for people and it saves money for the Government - the processing of a piece of paper and mailing it back costs many times more than it costs to process something electronically,'' he told the newspaper. ''There will come a point where you don't need all the physical offices any more.'' The Tories are also exploring ways to switch services to the web. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From mail at ozzmosis.com Tue Mar 23 06:32:29 2010 From: mail at ozzmosis.com (andrew clarke) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:32:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] BigPond gives short notice for end of modifications of keys to DRMed WMA music In-Reply-To: <4BA6F5BD.2070805@gdt.id.au> References: <4BA6F5BD.2070805@gdt.id.au> Message-ID: <20100322193229.GA81372@ozzmosis.com> On Mon 2010-03-22 15:14:45 UTC+1030, Glen Turner (gdt at gdt.id.au) wrote: > Here's why you should not buy your music with Digital Rights > Management. Less than a month's notice to their longest customers that > their investment in products from BigPond Music will be worthless when > they next upgrade their computer. One could argue they were already "worthless" in the sense they have little to no resale value, unlike physical CDs. ... > > As long as you keep using the same computer and operating system, you > > shouldn't have any trouble playing your WMA music files. But if you > > try to move them onto a new computer or operating system, they won't > > work if you don't transfer their DRM keys as well. This seems to suggest that if the existing DRM keys are copied to the new PC the music files will play on the new PC. (?) Regards Andrew From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Tue Mar 23 07:54:29 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:54:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] NEHTA's Feeling the Pressure Message-ID: Security fears may delay e-health patient identifier reforms until after election Date: March 22 2010 The Sydney Morning Herald Mark Metherell http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2010/03/21/1269106215100.html A CENTREPIECE of the Rudd government's health reforms - the electronic patient identifier system - is at risk of delay until after the election amid concerns over security and privacy. To shore up support for the e-health scheme, advocates have compiled dozens of examples of how the patient identifiers would save lives and end long delays in locating patient records for effective treatment. They cite errors in the labelling of pathology results that have been linked to an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 identification mistakes every year. The Royal College of Pathologists of Australasia has warned that such mistakes can endanger lives and have called for the urgent use of the identifiers. Patient mix-ups, treatment errors because of inadequate patient records and the loss of several thousand patient records being transported in a truck that was stolen have been given as examples of the problems with the present paper-based system. But the chief clinical adviser to the e-health scheme, Mukesh Haikerwal, has warned the project is in danger of sinking before the federal election because of the failure of governments and doctors to promote the benefits. ''Obviously we have not done a good job of explaining this,'' said Dr Haikerwal, a member of the National Health and Hospitals Reform Commission. Dr Haikerwal, who advises the National E-Health Transition Agency, said the e-health agenda had been ''hijacked by those who are out defending the privacy of the agenda to the exclusion of all thought of benefits to the individual brought about by better healthcare''. [A response to this wild flail is on its way to Dr Haikerwal. The APF's policy and recent submission are very clearly **supportive** of the application of information technology to health: http://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/eHealth-Policy-090828.pdf (Aug 2009) http://www.privacy.org.au/Papers/HI-Senate-100304.pdf (Mar 2010) ] Experts including the Victorian Privacy Commissioner, Helen Versey, and professor in cyberspace law at the University of NSW, Graham Greenleaf, have called for a rethink of the legislation. Their concerns include the compulsory nature of the scheme, the possibility of the identifier system being operated by a private company and of ''function creep'' in which the identifier could be accessed by other agencies. Professor Greenleaf told a Senate committee that ''the fundamental problem with the bill is that it is incomplete, covering only a small but central element of a much broader health identification and surveillance system which includes electronic health records''. The federal opposition says it is too early to say whether it will support the legislation when it goes back to the Senate in May. Coalition members of a Senate committee examining the legislation have called for significant amendments. But Dr Haikerwal said that, every day, doctors and patients are losing out because the nation lacks an e-health system that would have the same transforming effect as electronic banking. He said criticisms of the scheme failed to balance the huge benefits, including safer, more efficient and higher-quality care. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From ivan at itrundle.com Tue Mar 23 08:41:12 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:41:12 +1100 Subject: [LINK] BigPond gives short notice for end of modifications of keys to DRMed WMA music In-Reply-To: <20100322193229.GA81372@ozzmosis.com> References: <4BA6F5BD.2070805@gdt.id.au> <20100322193229.GA81372@ozzmosis.com> Message-ID: On 23/03/2010, at 6:32 AM, andrew clarke wrote: > One could argue they were already "worthless" in the sense they have > little to no resale value, unlike physical CDs. Better to hang on to your jewel cases, too - http://www.ipodmeister.com/ (The real value of CDs) :-) -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From ivan at itrundle.com Tue Mar 23 09:10:08 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:10:08 +1100 Subject: [LINK] China's response to Google's exit Message-ID: I was puzzled by the line, 'no country allows unrestricted flow of the Internet of ...superstitious content'... Is this a translation error, or does the Chinese government (and others) actively block superstitious material? (Some have doubted the veracity of this translation in general, but none has translated 'superstitious' differently) iT http://english.cctv.com/20100322/103067.shtml BEIJING, March 21 (Xinhua) ? From groundlessly accusing the Chinese government of supporting hacker attack against it to pushing China abandon the legal regulations on the Internet by threatening to withdraw from the Chinese market, many facts have shown that Google is politicalizing itself. Google, as the world's largest search engine, should understand an internationally accepted rule as well as other enterprises, if not better, that no matter in which country you conduct business, you have to obey the laws and regulations there. In fact, no country allows unrestricted flow on the Internet of pornographic, violent, gambling or superstitious content, or content on government subversion, ethnic separatism, religious extremism, racialism, terrorism and anti-foreign feelings. China has been implementing the reform and opening-up policies for more than three decades and its stance for keeping the door open remains unchanged. Having conducted business in China for four years, Google has benefited from China's opening-up policies and its vast market. However, regulation on the Internet is a sovereign issue. The Chinese government regulates the Internet according to laws and will improve its regulation step by step according to its own needs. It is a pure internal affair. Regrettably, Google's recent behaviors show that the company not just aims at expanding business in China, but is playing an active role in exporting culture, value and ideas. It is unfair for Google to impose its own value and yardsticks on Internet regulation to China, which has its own time-honored tradition, culture and value. Google is currently at a crossroad. Whether it eventually leaves the Chinese market or not, one thing is certain ? China's Internet market, which has already been the world's biggest with nearly 400 million netizens, will continue to prosper. Whether it leaves or not, the Chinese government will keep its Internet regulation principles unchanged. One company's ambition to change China's Internet rules and legal system will only prove to be ridiculous. And whether leaving or not, Google should not continue to politicalize itself, as linking its withdrawal to political issues will lose Google's credibility among Chinese netizens. That, will make Google end up to be the biggest loser. -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Tue Mar 23 09:47:47 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:47:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Google News Bugs Message-ID: Google has had a lot of trouble with its approach to Google News. It's depended on its bright employees to be able to strike through complexity, and deliver useful results, without any apparent specification, and with testing (yuk) delegated to users. A while back, I used Google News (and Google Scholar) as one means of checking out the early uses of the term 'cloud computing'. Answering a query from an editor this morning, I went back to re-check the earliest use I'd located of the term in the sense in which it's being used these days. (It was used both more loosely and for other things, prior to early-mid 2006). The results delivered by Google News are rather different from what they were a couple of months ago, and a complete hodge-podge. In particular, dates much earlier than early-mid 2006 turn up, but appear to be simply errors. They appear to be picking up text from later articles, and treating it as thought it was in an article of a much earlier date. I was using Advanced News Archive Search, at: http://news.google.com/archivesearch/advanced_search?ned=au&hl=en Switching to the somewhat obscure Timeline option, I got: http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22cloud+computing%22&num=50&as_price=p0&as_user_ldate=2005&as_user_hdate=2006&hl=en&ned=au&sa=N&lnav=m&scoring=t It'll be a great service once it works ... -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From stil at stilgherrian.com Tue Mar 23 10:59:24 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:59:24 +1100 Subject: [LINK] "Refused Classification" public submissions published Message-ID: <27330D9B-DFD8-4903-B136-FDAA8CD13ED7@stilgherrian.com> The "Submissions on measures to increase accountability and transparency for Refused Classification material" are slowly being published by DBCDE at http://www.dbcde.gov.au/funding_and_programs/cybersafety_plan/transparency_measures/submissions (or http://bit.ly/9DGXZx for the urly challenged). The links are all there but the documents are only gradually appearing behind them, so expect to see 404s for a while. The website's also likely to be hit fairly heavily by the #nocleanfeed crowd, so expect timeouts and other errors. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From kauer at biplane.com.au Tue Mar 23 11:24:40 2010 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:24:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] China's response to Google's exit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1269303880.16702.51.camel@karl> On Tue, 2010-03-23 at 09:10 +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: > I was puzzled by the line, 'no country allows unrestricted flow of the > Internet of ...superstitious content'... = religion = falun gong? But I think it's either a dud translation or (more probably) just wrong. The US allows all those things. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) +61-2-64957160 (h) http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob) GPG fingerprint: B386 7819 B227 2961 8301 C5A9 2EBC 754B CD97 0156 Old fingerprint: 07F3 1DF9 9D45 8BCD 7DD5 00CE 4A44 6A03 F43A 7DEF From stil at stilgherrian.com Tue Mar 23 11:45:09 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:45:09 +1100 Subject: [LINK] "Refused Classification" public submissions published In-Reply-To: <27330D9B-DFD8-4903-B136-FDAA8CD13ED7@stilgherrian.com> References: <27330D9B-DFD8-4903-B136-FDAA8CD13ED7@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <20BFC15E-DC9E-4107-9020-EEBF739A2EA4@stilgherrian.com> On 23/03/2010, at 10:59 AM, Stilgherrian wrote: > The website's also likely to be hit fairly heavily by the #nocleanfeed crowd, so expect timeouts and other errors. Actually, no, some errors are, as Mark Newton just put it, "the rocket surgeons at DEBACLE put \'s in the URL". Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From grove at zeta.org.au Tue Mar 23 14:38:00 2010 From: grove at zeta.org.au (grove at zeta.org.au) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:38:00 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LINK] Political Debate - online streaming Message-ID: Hi, just a quick word..... The ABC only presented me with a Microsoft format .asx file. As I am on Solaris/SPARC at work and use FireFox then I was pretty much out of the game since there isn't much app support out there for MS products on such systems. At the SMH, I fared much better - the streaming just worked. Interestingly, there were 3 of us watching on our SPARC boxes and one of us got slightly different presentation to the others, such as different camera perspectives and so on. Well done commercial operator SMH for adopting a portable standard viewable by even the most anti-MS operators. Boo to the public ABC for insisting on using a closed protocol for public consumption and not providing an Open Standard or at least a Portable one. rachel -- Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia grove at zeta.org.au http://www.zeta.org.au/~grove/grove.html "The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum." - Finagle's Law From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Tue Mar 23 16:52:29 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:52:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Security bug in Firefox Message-ID: <4BA8571D.3080806@hunterlink.net.au> > 03.18.10 - 08:20pm > Mozilla was contacted by Evgeny Legerov, the security researcher who discovered the bug referenced in [Secunia Advisory SA38608], with sufficient details to reproduce and analyze the issue. The vulnerability was determined to be critical and could result in remote code execution by an attacker. > Mozilla has accelerated its timetable and released Firefox 3.6.2 ahead of schedule. This release contains a number of security fixes, including a fix to Secunia Advisory SA38608 -- David Boxall | Dogs look up to us | And cats look down on us http://david.boxall.id.au | But pigs treat us as equals --Winston Churchill From chris at sw.oz.au Tue Mar 23 20:44:30 2010 From: chris at sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:44:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Spam In-Reply-To: <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE74818@cal066.act.gov.au> References: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <007401cac969$71388900$53a99b00$@net.au> <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE74818@cal066.act.gov.au> Message-ID: <20100323094430.GA19773@sw.oz.au> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 02:23:15PM +1100, Pilcher, Fred wrote: > > Although it definitely IS spam, the government anti-spam legislation > > doesn't > > recognise it as such, since it not from a Commercial operation. > > Ah yes. Thanks. Pity, that. Worse than that - they are a registered political party and exempt from spam laws... I manage to extract some humour from the ones I get. Chris From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Tue Mar 23 21:50:10 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:50:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy's plan slammed Message-ID: <8fplq0$3t4r0a@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> Conroy's internet censorship agenda slammed by tech giants http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/conroys-internet-censorship-agenda-slammed-by-tech-giants-20100323-qt83.html ASHER MOSES March 23, 2010 - 4:38PM Australia's biggest technology companies, communications academics and many lobby groups have delivered a withering critique of the government's plans to censor the internet. The government today published most of the 174 submissions it received relating to improving the transparency and accountability measures of its internet filtering policy [snip] --------- Insight tonight had a comment about the censorship issue by a young man. Jenny walked away from it, unfortunately. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From peter at ratbags.com Tue Mar 23 23:07:18 2010 From: peter at ratbags.com (Peter Bowditch) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 23:07:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Spam In-Reply-To: <20100323094430.GA19773@sw.oz.au> References: <20100317104255.51E22894@eagle.melbpc.org.au>, <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE74818@cal066.act.gov.au>, <20100323094430.GA19773@sw.oz.au> Message-ID: <4BA949A6.9974.11164E28@peter.ratbags.com> I managed to find my way onto their list as well. As they are mouth- foaming, barking mad they can provide a great deal of amusement. > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 02:23:15PM +1100, Pilcher, Fred wrote: > > > Although it definitely IS spam, the government anti-spam > legislation > > > doesn't > > > recognise it as such, since it not from a Commercial operation. > > > > Ah yes. Thanks. Pity, that. > > Worse than that - they are a registered political party and exempt from > spam laws... > > I manage to extract some humour from the ones I get. > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > -- Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project - http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud - http://www.acahf.org.au From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Wed Mar 24 06:57:18 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:57:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] wikipedia article on the net censorship filter Message-ID: <8heh0f$22tmct@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> the Wikipedia article is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia#Live_filtering_trials Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Wed Mar 24 08:13:59 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:13:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] OII News: Costing Digital Exclusion: An Online Deliberation Message-ID: [I've been thoroughly disappointed with the Oxford Internet Institute's first decade: http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/about/ [It's seemed to me to feature a great deal of 'chattering classes' social science, with too little hard technology underlay, and too little meaningful, instrumentalist research over the top of that. [But this looks a bit more worthwhile. In 2009, the National Audit Office (NAO) commissioned a team from the OII and the LSE to design a methodology for costing the impact of digital exclusion. We estimated indicators of financial harm as a result of digital exclusion to certain key groups: the low-income unemployed, the elderly and disabled, and the educationally disadvantaged. The economic 'benefits foregone' through the exclusion of these groups were then used to calculate the financial benefits - to individuals, government and the economy - of government intervention to tackle digital exclusion. The methodology has now been opened up for a period of expert deliberation and comment, with the aim of improving the methodology, highlighting any concerns or gaps in the design, and raising questions for future research. We invite academics, policy makers and the public to take part in the deliberation by leaving comments or questions, or joining the discussion threads. The Methodology is open for comment at: http://microsites.oii.ox.ac.uk/digital-exclusion/ The website provides a background to the project and instructions on how to take part. The website will be online until 26 April 2010. Until then, we hope that you will view the methodology, comment on it - or forward the link to any colleagues who you think might be interested in it. We value your feedback... With best wishes, Prof. Helen Margetts Oxford Internet Institute http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/ ---------------------------------------- Background to the Methodology ---------------------------------------- 1. Technological forms of exclusion are a reality for significant segments of the population. Different groups experience different types of exclusion, and for some people, they reinforce and deepen existing disadvantages, such as social and economic exclusion. The team estimated indicators of financial harm as a result of digital exclusion to certain key groups: the low-income unemployed, the elderly and disabled, and the educationally disadvantaged. The economic 'benefits foregone' through the exclusion of these groups were used to calculate the financial benefits - to individuals, government and the economy - of government intervention to tackle digital exclusion. 2. The original project to develop the methodology was jointly led by Professor Patrick Dunleavy (LSE) and Professor Helen Margetts. The research team included Chris Gilson, Leandro Carrera, Dr Ellen Helsper (OII) and Jane Tinkler. The project was jointly administered for the research team by Enterprise LSE and Isis Innovation. 3. In developing this methodology, the team drew on their extensive experience of working together on earlier National Audit Office (NAO) value for money studies, including: Government on the Web (1999), Government on the Web II (2002) and Government on the Internet: Progress in Delivering Information and Services Online (2007). See: http://www.governmentontheweb.org/ 4. The methodology made use of data from the Oxford Internet Institute's biennial Oxford Internet Surveys (OxIS), which provide the most comprehensive survey of Internet use in Britain. Datasets based on multiple independent surveys conducted by the UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) and the Office of Communications (Ofcom) were used to replicate indices and analyses to validate the central findings. OxIS: http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/microsites/oxis/ More details are available in research carried out by the OII (with the ONS and Ofcom) for the Department for Communities and Local Government (CLG), published as: Digital Inclusion: An Analysis of Social Disadvantage and the Information Society (2008). CLG Report: http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/microsites/oxis/publications.cfm [Editor: David Sutcliffe] Oxford Internet Institute University of Oxford 1 St Giles Oxford OX1 3JS United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)1865 287210 Fax: +44 (0)1865 287211 Email: enquiries at oii.ox.ac.uk Web: http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From marghanita at ramin.com.au Wed Mar 24 11:18:34 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 11:18:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] China's response to Google's exit In-Reply-To: <1269303880.16702.51.camel@karl> References: <1269303880.16702.51.camel@karl> Message-ID: <4BA95A5A.2000201@ramin.com.au> Karl Auer wrote: > On Tue, 2010-03-23 at 09:10 +1100, Ivan Trundle wrote: >> I was puzzled by the line, 'no country allows unrestricted flow of the >> Internet of ...superstitious content'... > > = religion = falun gong? > > But I think it's either a dud translation or (more probably) just wrong. > The US allows all those things. > As we are very much in the diplomatic domain here, I doubt it is a dud translation. It is intriguing to know what they are getting at and what is left given the other areas identified and their grouping: > In fact, no country allows unrestricted flow on the Internet of pornographic, violent, gambling or superstitious content, or content on government subversion, ethnic separatism, religious extremism, racialism, terrorism and anti-foreign feelings. I tried Google Translations - into and back from both Simplified and Traditional Chinese and got superstitious. I presume they are not talking about Astrology. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Wed Mar 24 11:37:10 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 11:37:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] OII News: Costing Digital Exclusion: An Online Deliberation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BA95EB6.6090403@ramin.com.au> Roger Clarke wrote: > > In 2009, the National Audit Office (NAO) commissioned a team from the > OII and the LSE to design a methodology for costing the impact of > digital exclusion. We estimated indicators of financial harm as a > result of digital exclusion to certain key groups: the low-income > unemployed, the elderly and disabled, and the educationally > disadvantaged. The economic 'benefits foregone' through the exclusion > of these groups were then used to calculate the financial benefits - > to individuals, government and the economy - of government > intervention to tackle digital exclusion. Just yesterday, I submitted comments to the NSW Government Metropolitan strategy regarding the role of libraries in the community and designing communities for disabled and elderly access under better land use: Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au Wed Mar 24 13:34:59 2010 From: Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au (Birch, Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:34:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] China's response to Google's exit In-Reply-To: <4BA95A5A.2000201@ramin.com.au> References: <1269303880.16702.51.camel@karl> <4BA95A5A.2000201@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328BA@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> > In fact, no country allows unrestricted flow on the Internet of pornographic, violent, gambling or superstitious content, or content on government subversion, ethnic separatism, religious extremism, racialism, terrorism and anti-foreign feelings. For some reason that I don't understand we put religion and superstition in different categories, but according to Karl Marx religion is just a form of superstition. A wander around a few Shanghai hotspots might suggest that China and Marxism have clearly parted ways but Marxist concepts are still underpin official Chinese political discourse. Jim CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER The information in this transmission may be confidential and/or protected by legal professional privilege, and is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. If you are not such a person, you are warned that any disclosure, copying or dissemination of the information is unauthorised. If you have received the transmission in error, please immediately contact this office by telephone, fax or email, to inform us of the error and to enable arrangements to be made for the destruction of the transmission, or its return at our cost. No liability is accepted for any unauthorised use of the information contained in this transmission. If the transmission contains advice, the advice is based on instructions in relation to, and is provided to the addressee in connection with, the matter mentioned above. Responsibility is not accepted for reliance upon it by any other person or for any other purpose. From stephen at melbpc.org.au Thu Mar 25 10:23:03 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:23:03 GMT Subject: [LINK] The Semantic Web Message-ID: <20100324232303.505E4613@eagle.melbpc.org.au> ?30 million institute for Web Science will lead the way in Web 3.0 News Distribution Service for UK Government and the Public Service 22nd March 2010 12:42 UK Department for Business, Innovation and Skills The (UK) Government today announced the creation of the new Institute for Web Science. It is designed to make the UK the hub of international research into the next generation of web internet technologies and their commercialisation, and, was announced by the Prime Minister alongside plans for a radical opening up of information and data to put more power in people?s hands. The Institute will conduct research, collaborate with businesses, identify opportunities for social and economic benefit, assist in commercialising research and help Government stimulate demand. The web was originally a place where people published documents that users could search and pick up. Web 2.0 has enabled users to contribute and create web content more easily. Web 3.0 will take the web to a whole new level by publishing data in a linkable format so that users and developers can see and exploit the relationships between different sets of information. The development of these technologies will create significant new opportunities for business and the public sector. The impact of these technologies is likely to be as important as the creation of the original web, and could generate large-scale economic benefits for the UK in the global market for web and internet technologies. The role of the Institute will be to undertake research and development, and act as a bridge between research and business, helping commercialise these new technologies. It will also advise Government on how semantic technologies can be used in the public sector, and how public procurement can be used to speed their adoption. Prime Minister Gordon Brown said that ?30 million would be set aside to create the Institute for Web Science. It will be headed by Sir Tim Berners Lee, the British inventor of the World Wide Web, and leading Web Science expert Professor Nigel Shadbolt. Speaking in London the Prime Minister said: ?We want to build on the outstanding work Sir Tim and Nigel Shadbolt have put in to ?making public data public?. We are determined to go further in breaking down the walled garden of Government using technology & information to provide greater transparency on the workings of Whitehall and give everyone more say over the services they receive. ?This Institute will help place the UK at the cutting edge of research on the Semantic Web and other emerging web and internet technologies and ensure the Government is taking the right funding decisions to position the UK as a world leader. We will invite universities and private sector web developers and companies to join this collaborative project.? The Institute, to be funded through the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, will strengthen the UK?s world-leading capability in the development of semantic web technologies as well as others that enable the extraction of value from information. It will bring together the best minds from around the world to deliver the benefits of advances in web technology to businesses and individuals. Business Secretary Lord Mandelson said: Whether it is to allow our research institutions and innovative businesses to maximise and demonstrate the strength and attractiveness of their networks, or to ensure we make the most of clinical information to improve our understanding of disease, a new web revolution is afoot. Government support for this Institute as well as early adoption of these emerging technologies in the public sector arena will allow the UK to lead the way and help pull this technology through to the market place. The Institute for Web Science will be jointly based in the Universities of Oxford and Southampton. It is still subject to contract. For further information, contact BIS press office on 0207 215 5938. Mapping Clusters of UK Technology Excellence With the support of Talis a UK company that develops Semantic Web applications the Research Councils UK, the Technology Strategy Board and the Intellectual Property Office collaborated to develop linked datasets in four key technology areas: regenerative medicine, plastic electronics, RFID and advanced composite materials. These in turn were linked to Google maps. By ensuring that datasets have common elements and vocabulary it enables any company or potential inward investor to identify where the clusters of expertise lie in these important emerging technologies, the companies/organisations involved, the projects they are involved in, and how much public money has gone into them. It also enables UK Science Parks to market their sites on the basis of the strength of the clusters on and around the science park in question. The organisations have learned from this exercise and are rolling this out across all technologies. It can also be extended to include Measurement research and research programmes funded by Government Departments and support given to relevant firms by RDAs. The upshot will be a comprehensive picture of research and technology excellence in the UK, inputs and outputs, as well as evolving relationships which will be updated on a regular basis. Health data There has already been pilot work between the Universities of Southampton and Oxford (Prof Shadbolt and Prof Sir Michael Brady) in the area of multi-disciplinary cancer treatment. The semantic mark up language SNOMED is also used within the NHS and could provide an opportunity for much more extensive patient record linkage using linked data technologies. Inter-Departmental Data Sharing (Smarter Government) Semantic approaches could also improve the efficiency of handling cases which straddle two Departments e.g. Health and Social Security. There is a large scale pilot already underway in the area of Assisted Living (in Cornwall, Kent and the Borough of Newham), which is being supported by the Technology Strategy Board (the Assisted Living Innovation Platform) which would provide a significant platform for developing the use of semantic approaches in a significant and growing area of public service delivery. Department for Business, Innovation & Skills The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) is building a dynamic and competitive UK economy by: creating the conditions for business success; promoting innovation, enterprise and science; and giving everyone the skills and opportunities to succeed. To achieve this it will foster world-class universities and promote an open global economy. BIS - Investing in our future. Contact, NDS Enquiries: ndsenquiries at coi.gsi.gov.uk -- Cheers, Stephen From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Thu Mar 25 10:35:58 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:35:58 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Fwd: [OWW-SFF: Writing] Links of doom: the death of a kindle Message-ID: <8fplq0$3tncut@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> from another list. Note that some of the comments disagree with elements of the article. >Remember all that angst about the kindle and book prices? > >Alas, the kindle may not be long for this world: >http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=12419&tag=nl.e550 > >The e-reader is dead, long live the iReader. Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 25 10:58:25 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:58:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The Semantic Web In-Reply-To: <20100324232303.505E4613@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100324232303.505E4613@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4BAAA721.8090409@ramin.com.au> And their media release is in HTML! stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > ?30 million institute for Web Science will lead the way in Web 3.0 > > News Distribution Service for UK Government and the Public Service > 22nd March 2010 12:42 UK Department for Business, Innovation and Skills > > > > The (UK) Government today announced the creation of the new Institute for > Web Science. > Speaking in London the Prime Minister said: > > ?We want to build on the outstanding work Sir Tim and Nigel Shadbolt have > put in to ?making public data public?. > > We are determined to go further in breaking down the walled garden of > Government using technology & information to provide greater transparency > on the workings of Whitehall and give everyone more say over the services > they receive. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From ivan at itrundle.com Thu Mar 25 12:33:05 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:33:05 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The Semantic Web In-Reply-To: <4BAAA721.8090409@ramin.com.au> References: <20100324232303.505E4613@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BAAA721.8090409@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <5EDFB976-9AFD-47DA-9C26-45B84298B85B@itrundle.com> >> ?30 million institute for Web Science will lead the way in Web 3.0 Aren't we just entering the Web 2.0 world? Time flies... iT -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 25 13:05:23 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:05:23 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australian Government Data Centre Strategy In-Reply-To: <4BA71B53.4010404@tomw.net.au> References: <45854.1269233493@iimetro.com.au> <4BA71B53.4010404@tomw.net.au> Message-ID: <4BAAC4E3.1070701@ramin.com.au> Tom Worthington wrote: > Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: >> ... Australian Government has endorsed the Data Centre Strategy ... >> http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/infrastructure/docs/AGDC_Strategy.pdf > Also the document was released in a hard to read PDF format, rather than > as a true electronic document. As a result the document is five times HTML version here: Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marghanita at ramin.com.au Thu Mar 25 13:25:25 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:25:25 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Cool...Tasmania to become a data centre hub... Message-ID: <4BAAC995.3050407@ramin.com.au> > Environmental sustainability matters are increasingly important. Government data centre operations currently generate around 300,000 tonnes of carbon annually. Modern data centre technology can reduce this carbon footprint by around 13 per cent or 40,000 tonnes per annum. Further reductions are possible by using data centres in the many locations in Australia that can exploit the free cooling available when the air temperature is below 16oC. > -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Thu Mar 25 14:04:22 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:04:22 +1100 Subject: [LINK] IT news - Fwd: APO Weekly Briefing - 25 March 2010 Message-ID: <8lkuri$3tqg5q@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net> >WILL FACEBOOK PROFILES REPLACE GOVT WEB SITES? >http://www.apo.org.au/research/will-facebook-profiles-replace-govt-web-sites > >FutureGov >22 March, 2010 | It???s all the rage for >ministries and agencies to have a Facebook or >even MySpace page these days. Governments are >going where their citizens are. So why bother having a web site at all? >----- >WORLD INTERNET PROJECT REPORT 2010 >http://www.apo.org.au/research/world-internet-project-report-2010 > >World Internet Project >22 March, 2010 | The World Internet Project has >released its second annual global findings on >the impact of online technology - a >five-continent collaboration creating an >international picture of change produced by the Internet. >----- >NATIONAL BROADBAND PLAN: CONNECTING AMERICA >http://www.apo.org.au/research/national-broadband-plan-connecting-america > >Federal Communications Commission >18 March, 2010 | Broadband networks only create >value to consumers and businesses >when they are used in conjunction with >broadband-capable devices to deliver >useful applications and content. The plan >seeks to ensure that the entire broadband >ecosystem - networks, devices, content and applications - is healthy. >----- >AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT DATA CENTRE STRATEGY 2010 - 2025 >http://www.apo.org.au/research/australian-government-data-centre-strategy-2010-2025 > >Department Finance and Deregulation >22 March, 2010 | This Strategy is the proposed >whole-of-government approach to future data >centre requirements. It contains initiatives and >actions to achieve the recommendations of the >Review including the avoidance of $1 billion in costs. >----- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Thu Mar 25 14:27:22 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:27:22 +1100 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 Message-ID: Call be paranoid by all means, but is anyone aware of an analysis of Firefox 3.5/3.6 from the viewpoint of consumer rights and privacy? The product pages are in the style of an upbeat marketer. The suspicion is that the design decisions have been made by upbeat marketers for upbeat marketers, rather than by consumers for consumers. Sure, the product trumpets its privacy and security features. But these are largely about resistance to 'unauthorised third parties'. The bigger security and privacy concerns arise from second parties - the operators of the web-sites that consumers visit - and 'pseudo-authorised third parties' - the 'strategic partners' of the operators of web-sites that consumers visit. Looking at the features pages, here are some areas I'm wondering about: http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/features/ http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/underthehood/ https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Firefox_3.6_for_developers - Faster DOM ... added support for new standards [no further information provided] - Network and File Access A new File API, based on emerging standards, now allows asynchronous event-based access to files (see it in action). Mixed with cross-site XMLHttpRequests originally introduced in Firefox 3.5 [wrong: it originated at Microsoft], these give Web developers the ability to build exciting mashups from multiple Web sites. [This enables AJAX, and hijack of the browser by the web-server: http://www.rogerclarke.com/EC/Web2C.html#AltT ] - Location-aware Browsing ... users can share their location with requesting Web sites, allowing developers to customize their applications so they deliver more useful, more relevant output. New in Firefox 3.6, developers can lookup the address corresponding to a specific location https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Using_geolocation [This is quite specifically a Google tie-in, so there appears to be a high likelihood of disclosure of data to Google, irrespective of what the laws of various countries, and the weasel-words in the various dispersed privacy policy statements might say] - Personas The concept has been debased from a nymous identity to a prettified colour-scheme: http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/features/#look-and-feel - Instant Web Site ID [This appears to be another Google tie-in, with all the consumer risks that dealing with Google in the background entails There's no doubt there's a lot of 'good things' in there for consumers. But it looks like there's a host of 'good things' for marketers, which are specifically there to enable manipulation of the browser, the consumer's data, and the consumer. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Thu Mar 25 15:38:44 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:38:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Redesigning Government IT 2010 Message-ID: <4BAAE8D4.8080406@tomw.net.au> Greetings from the 2010 ACS Canberra Branch Conference at the historic Canberra Hyatt. This is a one day conferecne with four streams: Data Management, Service Management, Personal Development and Enterprise Architecture. The conference traditionally concentrates on professional skills, rather than technology. This year the emphasis is on developing the young professional (with university students milling around nervously, obviously in their best clothes and on their best behaviour). There also seems to be a defence flavour running through much of the conference. Topics this year which stand out to me were: ITIL V3, "The Virtuous IT Professional" Data developments at the ABS and the UNSW at Canberra Robotics Tournament. The conference is as usual opened with government heavyweights. This year it is the John Stanhope, Chief Minister of the ACT, John Sheridan, from AGIMO. Bruce Lakin, the new CEO of the ACS and Matt Yannopoulos, CTO, Department of Defence. The Chief Minister started by admitted he doesn't have a Facebook page or Twitter, but does have a Blackberry. ... The Chief Minister then highlighted Transact's success at delivering broadband in Canberra, including to all schools (unfortunately ACT may therefore miss out on federal funding because it was a pioneer). ... John Sheridan, from AGIMO, then did the "Vision Thing". He argued for business credibility for IT people. ... Applications account for 36% of total government IT spend and is the largest single amount. This is something I raised with the new government data centre policy ... Finance has turned on access to Twitter and Facebook to staff, indicating that the senior executive are comfortable with the technology. ... Bruce Lakin, the new CEO of the ACS outlined the new certification process for ACS. This is now internationally recognised by IP3. The new Certified professional (CP) with CT (Certified Technologist) and CS (Certified Specialist) will be recognsied in the UK, USA and other countries. This has required alignment with the SFIA, including for the Green ICT course I designed. The keynote as Matt Yannopoulos, CTO, Department of Defence. Before his presentation I chatted with Matt, who confessed to me he wasn't a blogger, but the Chief of Army was. I suggested he not rush into blogging as there are downsides. Matt is leading the development of the Defence ICT architecture. ... More at: . -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From fcassia at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 18:23:31 2010 From: fcassia at gmail.com (Fernando Cassia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:23:31 -0300 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52733fad1003250023k5ad482cey691ae68ec66e4669@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Roger Clarke wrote: > - ? Faster DOM ... added support for new standards > ? ? [no further information provided] DOM is a pretty mess, and useful only for programmers. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/About_the_Document_Object_Model Why would a consumer be interested on that?. > Mixed with cross-site > ? ? XMLHttpRequests originally introduced in Firefox 3.5 [wrong: ?it > ? ? originated at Microsoft] You're reading what you want to read, not what it says. It doesn't says xmlhttprequests "originated at Firefox", it says what it says, that the feature was "originally introduced in firefox version 3.5". Do you see release notes of Microsoft products saying where a given technology originated?. Each products's release notes speaks from a product-centric point of view, it's not an encyclopedia. FC From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Thu Mar 25 18:56:48 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:56:48 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Atlantic and Pacific Tsunami exercises under way Message-ID: <4BAB1740.5010202@tomw.net.au> Tsunami exercise "LANTEX 10" commenced at midnight GMT today, with the first message sent by the West Coast/Alaska Tsunami Warning Centre. This is a scripted exercise to test tsunami response plans. LANTEX 10, simulates a magnitude 7.5 earthquake off the New England coast. Detail of the exercise, including the timeline of what is scheduled to happen when is available in the LANTEX10 Handbook Version 3.0 . There is also the corresponding Pacific exercise PACIFEX 10, simulating a magnitude 9.0 earthquake south of the Alaska Peninsula. Details are in the PACIFEX10 Handbook Version 3.0 . In addition Alaska and California are conducting tests of their Emergency Alert Systems, including on TV. It should be noted for those used to more free flowing exercises, as used by the UK and Australia, the US exercises tend to be more tightly scripted. ps: Also note, as it says in all messages issued: THIS IS ONLY AN EXERCISE. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 26 10:57:47 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:57:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 Message-ID: Roger Clarke wrote on Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:27:22 +1100 >Call be paranoid by all means, but is anyone aware of an analysis of >Firefox 3.5/3.6 from the viewpoint of consumer rights and privacy? ... Here's a quick summary of some off-list advice: 1. Geolocation In Firefox 3.6, Geolocation apparently: - defaults to 'Ask' - can be set to 'Never Allow' or somesuch, but I haven't seen how you do it in the documentation, and you may have to ask other users http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/geolocation/ 2. Other Google-Related Features There are many - many of which appear to embody serious privacy threats. (There are some good ones of course - Google does some neat things. The malware report/safe browsing feature may be one to leave switched on). In general (maybe in all cases?), the features have an 'Off' switch. *But* they cannot be accessed in the Preferences display! Instead they require a fair bit of knowledge of what's under the bonnet. Use about:config in the url bar. Some info at http://kb.mozillazine.org/About:config_entries. Call me a serious sceptic if you will, but that looks like an active effort on the part of the designers to advantage marketers over consumers, by ensuring that only a very small proportion of Firefox 3.6 users block Google-related functions. 3. Cross-Site Scripting Firefox 3.6 is, as I'd speculated, highly marketer-friendly and consumer-unfriendly in relation to 'cross-site scripting' (which refers to the practice of sites that you visit inviting lots of 'strategic partners' to invade your browser). I gather that users have to (a) understand what's going on, (b) find out about multiple plug-ins/'embeddeds', (c) take a risk on installing them, and (d) maybe even then configure them. Important instances of this category of antidote for Firefox's nastier features are as follows: - Noscript https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/722 - RefControl https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/953 - JSView https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2076 See also AdBlockPlus: http://adblockplus.org/en/ 4. Where to find a Consumer-Friendly Browser? For those of us who decline to use Firefox after 3.0.x, will SeaMonkey be any more consumer-friendly? http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/features ________________________________________________________________________ Roger Clarke wrote on Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:27:22 +1100 >Call be paranoid by all means, but is anyone aware of an analysis of >Firefox 3.5/3.6 from the viewpoint of consumer rights and privacy? > >The product pages are in the style of an upbeat marketer. > >The suspicion is that the design decisions have been made by upbeat >marketers for upbeat marketers, rather than by consumers for >consumers. > >Sure, the product trumpets its privacy and security features. But >these are largely about resistance to 'unauthorised third parties'. > >The bigger security and privacy concerns arise from second parties - >the operators of the web-sites that consumers visit - and >'pseudo-authorised third parties' - the 'strategic partners' of the >operators of web-sites that consumers visit. > >Looking at the features pages, here are some areas I'm wondering about: >http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/features/ >http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/underthehood/ >https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Firefox_3.6_for_developers > >- Faster DOM ... added support for new standards > [no further information provided] > >- Network and File Access > A new File API, based on emerging standards, now allows asynchronous > event-based access to files (see it in action). Mixed with cross-site > XMLHttpRequests originally introduced in Firefox 3.5 [wrong: it > originated at Microsoft], these give Web developers the ability to > build exciting mashups from multiple Web sites. > > [This enables AJAX, and hijack of the browser by the web-server: > http://www.rogerclarke.com/EC/Web2C.html#AltT ] > >- Location-aware Browsing > ... users can share their location with requesting Web sites, allowing > developers to customize their applications so they deliver more useful, > more relevant output. New in Firefox 3.6, developers can lookup the > address corresponding to a specific location > https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Using_geolocation > > [This is quite specifically a Google tie-in, so there appears to be > a high likelihood of disclosure of data to Google, irrespective of > what the laws of various countries, and the weasel-words in the > various dispersed privacy policy statements might say] > >- Personas > The concept has been debased from a nymous identity to a prettified > colour-scheme: > http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/features/#look-and-feel > >- Instant Web Site ID > > [This appears to be another Google tie-in, with all the consumer > risks that dealing with Google in the background entails > > >There's no doubt there's a lot of 'good things' in there for consumers. > >But it looks like there's a host of 'good things' for marketers, >which are specifically there to enable manipulation of the browser, >the consumer's data, and the consumer. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From fcassia at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 11:04:58 2010 From: fcassia at gmail.com (Fernando Cassia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:04:58 -0300 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52733fad1003251704gc7d72c6y933139cfe6c42c66@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > Roger Clarke wrote on Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:27:22 +1100 >>Call be paranoid by all means, but is anyone aware of an analysis of >>Firefox 3.5/3.6 from the viewpoint of consumer rights and privacy? ... You seem to have an axe to grind against Mozilla.... ?Is IE 8 any better? Do you really know what goes on under the hood in your proprietary OS, namely Windows 7?. Or XP for that matter?. Do you know what BITS (Background Intelligent Transfer Service) does while your computer is idling?. Do you advise people not to use Windows? or are you just complaining against Mozilla and Google? FC From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Fri Mar 26 11:11:01 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:11:01 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Australian Government Data Centre Strategy In-Reply-To: <4BAAC4E3.1070701@ramin.com.au> References: <45854.1269233493@iimetro.com.au> <4BA71B53.4010404@tomw.net.au> <4BAAC4E3.1070701@ramin.com.au> Message-ID: <4BABFB95.9000100@tomw.net.au> Marghanita da Cruz wrote: > HTML version here: > The web version of the "Australian Government Data Centre Strategy" looks good. It passes a W3C Validation test: . But when I attempted a W3C Mobile Okay check, it returned a "502 Proxy Error": . There were some minor problems with an automated accessibility test (TAW) , but overall this is an easy to read web version of the report. One minor change I would suggest is to move the "full publication" (ie PDF) link, from the top, to the bottom, of the page. Most readers will just want the summary, but will likely click on the PDF link before they realise they just needed to scroll down the page a bit. Also it would be useful if the web address of the web version of the report (not the PDF version) was included in all versions of the report and in announcements for it. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Fri Mar 26 11:18:15 2010 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (Richard Chirgwin) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:18:15 +1100 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: <52733fad1003251704gc7d72c6y933139cfe6c42c66@mail.gmail.com> References: <52733fad1003251704gc7d72c6y933139cfe6c42c66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BABFD47.6070704@ozemail.com.au> Fernando Cassia wrote: > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > >> Roger Clarke wrote on Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:27:22 +1100 >> >>> Call be paranoid by all means, but is anyone aware of an analysis of >>> Firefox 3.5/3.6 from the viewpoint of consumer rights and privacy? ... >>> > > You seem to have an axe to grind against Mozilla.... ?Is IE 8 any > better? Do you really know what goes on under the hood in your > proprietary OS, namely Windows 7?. Or XP for that matter?. > > Do you know what BITS (Background Intelligent Transfer Service) does > while your computer is idling?. > > Do you advise people not to use Windows? or are you just complaining > against Mozilla and Google? > Umm, since when does criticising product A impose a duty to equally criticise product B? My own concerns about Firefox / Mozilla / Google are this: as a non-Windows user, I somewhat default to FF. If it then starts cutting below-the-hood deals with Google, then it is a matter of criticism. And I don't feel the need to widen the analysis to Microsoft, because I'm not exposed to whatever it does. RC > FC > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > From Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au Fri Mar 26 11:22:34 2010 From: Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au (Pilcher, Fred) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:22:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE75045@cal066.act.gov.au> Roger wrote: > Call me a serious sceptic if you will, but that looks like an active > effort on the part of the designers to advantage marketers over > consumers, by ensuring that only a very small proportion of Firefox > 3.6 users block Google-related functions. It was probably inevitable once it became clear that FF was a potential money spinner. I wonder whether we'll see a fork. For all that, though, plugins like NoScript still seem to plug the worst of the holes - it's unlikely that we'll ever see the like in Chrome. Fred ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 26 11:27:28 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:27:28 +1100 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: <52733fad1003251704gc7d72c6y933139cfe6c42c66@mail.gmail.com> References: <52733fad1003251704gc7d72c6y933139cfe6c42c66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Roger Clarke > wrote: >> Roger Clarke wrote on Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:27:22 +1100 >>>Call be paranoid by all means, but is anyone aware of an analysis of >>>Firefox 3.5/3.6 from the viewpoint of consumer rights and privacy? ... At 21:04 -0300 25/3/10, Fernando Cassia wrote: >You seem to have an axe to grind against Mozilla.... I've asked a series of questions about Firefox's consumer-friendliness. Is that axe-grinding? If it turns out that Firefox is marketer-friendly and consumer-hostile (which looks to be the case), I'd conclude that consumers should be warned off Firefox post v.3.0.x. Would that be axe-grinding? >?Is IE 8 any better? I assume it's pretty bad (although lack of integration with Google could be a strength!). But I've never used *any* version of IE on any machine of my own, and I'm unlikely to, so I can't tackle the question, sorry. >Do you really know what goes on under the hood in your >proprietary OS, namely Windows 7?. Or XP for that matter?. >Do you know what BITS (Background Intelligent Transfer Service) does >while your computer is idling?. Similarly, I haven't used any of the above except on other people's machines. You explained one of the reasons. >Do you advise people not to use Windows? Absolutely! (Although only for about the last 20 years). >or are you just complaining against Mozilla and Google? Who's complaining? I try to have a bit more impact than that. 1. I'm asking 2. I'm gathering evidence 3. I'll then draw conclusions 4. I'll then reflect those conclusions in what I do, write and say The tentative conclusion is that consumers shouldn't use Firefox post v.3.0.x. (I haven't yet had a need to assess 3.6 from a corporate perspective, but I suspect that the front-end and embedded protections that an organisation would have in place would render it unusable anyway). Now, if you ask me 'so what do you recommend then?', I'm on pretty soft ground. It's a great pity that the marketers hi-jacked the Mozilla community. -- If you want to talk, please send me a message from a proper account. Here's why I don't communicate with people at Gmail addresses: http://www.rogerclarke.com/II/Gurgle0604.html#Gmail From scott at doc.net.au Fri Mar 26 12:07:32 2010 From: scott at doc.net.au (Scott Howard) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:07:32 -0700 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > 3. Cross-Site Scripting > > Firefox 3.6 is, as I'd speculated, highly marketer-friendly and > consumer-unfriendly in relation to 'cross-site scripting' (which > refers to the practice of sites that you visit inviting lots of > 'strategic partners' to invade your browser). > No, that is NOT what Cross-Site Scripting (XSS) is at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting will give you a good into to what XSS is. If you have any specific instances of where FF >3.0 is more susceptible to XSS attacks than FF 3.0, then I'm sure the Firefox team would be happy to hear them. Scott. From stil at stilgherrian.com Fri Mar 26 12:22:11 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:22:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6F2455-7A91-499D-914B-1B6895BCABF5@stilgherrian.com> On 26/03/2010, at 12:07 PM, Scott Howard wrote: > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Roger Clarke wrote: > >> 3. Cross-Site Scripting >> >> Firefox 3.6 is, as I'd speculated, highly marketer-friendly and >> consumer-unfriendly in relation to 'cross-site scripting' (which >> refers to the practice of sites that you visit inviting lots of >> 'strategic partners' to invade your browser). >> > > No, that is NOT what Cross-Site Scripting (XSS) is at all. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting will give you a good into > to what XSS is. > > If you have any specific instances of where FF >3.0 is more susceptible to > XSS attacks than FF 3.0, then I'm sure the Firefox team would be happy to > hear them. Also, when does it become "sites that you visit inviting lots of 'strategic partners' to invade your browser", as opposed to just assembling a web page from a variety of data sources? Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Fri Mar 26 12:48:26 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:48:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] RFI: Firefox 3.5/3.6 In-Reply-To: <4D6F2455-7A91-499D-914B-1B6895BCABF5@stilgherrian.com> References: <4D6F2455-7A91-499D-914B-1B6895BCABF5@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: At 12:22 +1100 26/3/10, Stilgherrian wrote: >Also, when does it become "sites that you visit inviting lots of >'strategic partners' to invade your browser", as opposed to just >assembling a web page from a variety of data sources? Yep, good question. (1) One factor is the extent to which data about the consumer is disclosed to the other party (2) Another is whether the consumer has consented. Consent has to be informed and freely-given. If you didn't contemplate that such would be done, you weren't informed, so there's no consent (3) A further factor is what the third party does while they're in there. Back when the Web was innocent, there was HTML and some pretty limited Javascript. Now there's the cluster of elements that constitute AJAX. The third party is capable of doing lots, and that constitutes invasiveness cf. assembly That's straight off the top of my head, so I reserve the right to vary, expand, and be shown to be not-quite-right, somewhat-wrong, quite-wrong. [Thanks to Scott for pointing out that I'd used the wrong expression! [My excuses are: knowing too little, moving too fast, and forgetting that the bland-sounding expression 'cross-site scripting' actually refers to a category of exploit / attack - although Wikipedia confuses the issue by calling it a vulnerability ... [I'm hoping to find the right word, but am juggling too many things at once this morning to be able to focus on it right now. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From stephen at melbpc.org.au Fri Mar 26 23:31:03 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:31:03 GMT Subject: [LINK] Brand Karma Message-ID: <20100326123103.2794D7EF@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Brands on notice as rating website launches by JULIAN LEE March 26, 2010 - 10:04AM The wisdom of the crowds as well as its collective buying power is being harnessed to reward companies that treat the planet and workers well and punish those that don't. A web-based service created by an Australian, launched this week, enables shoppers to vote on which companies treat their staff, customers, suppliers, investors and the environment the best. Thought to be the first of its kind, the service invites users to comment and rate a company based on up-to-the-minute information it publishes about the world's top 300 brands. By aggregating the individual opinions of thousands of users 'the crowd' determines how good or bad a company is. High-scoring companies are likely to attract more custom from communities of concerned shoppers, while lower-scoring one will be encouraged to do better. Brandkarma founder Craig Davis said it adds "another voice in the room" to balance those of NGOs, corporations and governments in the debate around sustainability. "The question around the choices that we make is becoming more significant. People exercise those choices - in effect their vote - every time they buy something," said Mr Davis, whose day job is chief creative officer at Sydney advertising agency Publicis Mojo. After more than 20 years of creating ads for global companies such as Nestle, Shell, Unilever and Ford, Mr Davis said he asked himself the question: "What kind of world do you want to live in - and leave to your kids." The answer is a service that borrows social networking tools to create a Facebook of brands that claims its mission is to "help people help each other make better brand choices and encourage companies to be good to all their stakeholders". A brand's overall performance is easured by its appearance on the website ? red is bad while green is good ? and by its overall score that can allow comparisons to be made with competitors. He said he was not worried about companies that were receiving poor ratings rorting the system as they "would eventually be found out". He would make money out of selling the insights gleaned from the data back to companies to "make better brands" but would not divulge any personal information of users. Experts in the field of ethical or consumer activism welcomed the idea. Oliver Wagg, the managing editor of Ethical Investor magazine, said that Australian consumers who were interested in shopping sustainably had few places to turn to for information. "An increasing number of directories and websites are emerging to help consumers make the right decision about 'green' products and services. But these sources generally point consumers to products and services that brand themselves as 'green', leaving them to carry out their own verification and of course open to false advertising, or 'greenwashing'," he said. Although Brandkarma is thought to be the first service of its kind in the world, consumer activism in generally has already taken root. A US-based service called Carrotmob is gaining traction with its co- ordinated grassroots efforts that leverage consumer power. In October its Australian debut attracted 200 people who shopped exclusively at a Surry Hills supermarket that had pledged 20 per cent of its sales to go towards the "greening" of the store. More such events are planned. -- Cheers, Stephen From jon.seymour at gmail.com Sat Mar 27 06:29:21 2010 From: jon.seymour at gmail.com (Jon Seymour) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 06:29:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] SMH: A big night out: drinking, dancing, fingerprinting Message-ID: <2cfc40321003261229y190ce07fnc241e97f319d53c1@mail.gmail.com> OMFG --- http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/a-big-night-out-drinking-dancing-fingerprinting-20100326-r31s.html SOMEWHERE in Perth's central business district is a building containing the names, ages, addresses, photographs and unique fingerprint codes of thousands of revellers who danced and drank at Sydney's Home nightclub last year. Home, in Darling Harbour, began trialling a biometric ID scanning entry system nine months ago. Patrons lined up before six large terminals to have their photo taken, and their driver's licence and right index fingerprint scanned. The information was copied and sent to Western Australia, where it is stored on a secured central database by the system developers. While Home is the only NSW venue to use fingerprint technology at present - there are 13 nationwide - various forms of ID scanning are being quietly rolled out at other nightspots. fingerprints Among them is Hotel Cremorne on the lower north shore. Since November the nightclub has required guests to submit to a photograph and ID scan as they line up on the street to enter on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. ''It did kind of creep me out, made me feel like a criminal,'' a regular attendee, Julia Robertson, said. ''[But] I think it does make me feel safe. If some creepy guy comes in, they've taken their photograph.'' Queensland's ID-Tect installed its first ID scanning system in NSW in 2006, but now has hundreds in drinking establishments across the country - and thousands of individuals on its centrally stored ''ban list'' accessible to any client. The effect on pub violence had been dramatic, the chief executive of ID-Tect, Peter Perrett, said. ''People don't really have much respect for CCTV these days. When you see it on the telly, it's grainy,'' he said. ''[But] with our system, they can see what happens on CCTV [and] line that up with the picture taken of them at the door.'' If an individual is not on the ''ban list'', their information is deleted after 28 days. If they are, it can be stored indefinitely, and appear when visiting another pub in another city, or even state. ''It will pop up and show a photograph of the person, what place banned them, what for, and who imposed it,'' Mr Perrett said. There were only half a dozen idEye units - at an average set-up cost of $9000 - in Sydney venues, but they were more prevalent in other states, where their success had been overwhelming, he said. ''Even people that might be inclined to misbehave, don't.'' Not everybody is convinced ID scanning is appropriate at nightclubs. Home said NSW police suspended the club's fingerprint scanning three months ago over privacy concerns. There has also been a spike in complaints about ID scanning to the Federal Privacy Commissioner, who warned there were ''major security risks'' if companies held onto the data. The commissioner, Karen Curtis, is investigating the issue and reviewing advice to clubs to encompass the surge in new ID-capture technologies. ''We have ? anecdotally noted a general increase in complaints in recent years,'' she said. ''The majority of the complaints concern unnecessary collection of personal information and the issue of anonymity, although some also involve other issues such as security concerns and lack of notice. ''There are major security risks if organisations hold on to large amounts of personal information for lengthy periods of time, including possible identity fraud.'' From stephen at melbpc.org.au Sat Mar 27 12:26:17 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 01:26:17 GMT Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online Message-ID: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> News Corp to charge for UK Times online from June by Georgina Prodhan, London, Fri Mar 26, 2010 www.reuters.com (Reuters) - News Corp will charge readers for online versions of its UK Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the first media firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass-market news online. Access to two new websites for the two titles will cost 1 pound ($1.49) per day or 2 pounds for a week. Subscribers to the print versions will get free access, News Corp said on Friday. "This is just the start," said Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of News Corp's British newspaper unit News International which also publishes the Sun daily tabloid and sister paper The News of the World on Sundays. "At a defining moment for journalism, this is a crucial step toward making the business of news an economically exciting proposition," she said in a statement. Newspapers in Western Europe and the United States have been battered by the recession while fighting a structural shift in their business from paid-for newspapers to largely free news on the Web. Two business newspapers -- the Financial Times and News Corp's Wall Street Journal -- charge readers for online access but consumer publications have so far not followed, fearing a massive loss of readers. News Corp chief executive Rupert Murdoch has become a kind of champion of paid-for online news, saying Internet giant Google has deprived the industry of revenue by making news articles searchable for free. In January, The New York Times said it would start charging readers for access to online articles from next year, acknowledging that advertising revenues were unlikely to be able to fund its journalism in the future. The editors of the Times and Sunday Times promised interactive features to get readers more involved, personalized news feeds, and coming versions for phones, e-readers, tablet computers and other mobile devices. The Times and the Sunday Times will launch new, separate websites in early May, which will be free to registered customers for a trial period. The print version of the Times costs 1 pound on weekdays and 1.50 pounds on Saturdays, and the Sunday Times costs 2 pounds. -- Cheers, Stephen From stephen at melbpc.org.au Sat Mar 27 12:35:18 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 01:35:18 GMT Subject: [LINK] Social gaming Message-ID: <20100327013518.C032B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> A virtual farm turns new ground for game developers by John Gaudiosi, SAN FRANCISCO, Thu Mar 25, 2010 http://www.reuters.com (Reuters) - A virtual farm attracting up to 83 million aspiring farmers monthly has video game developers scrambling to find ways to plough the booming popularity of online games on social networks. Sites like Facebook, which has an estimated 400 million users, and MySpace, with about 100 million users, are driving a social gaming craze. Heiko Hubertz, CEO of browser-based games portal www.Bigpoint.com which is home to over 100 million gamers, said online game experiences were very solitary in the past. "Now through social network gaming and browser-based games portals, gamers of all types can share their experiences and compete against each other in original experiences like 'Poisonville,' as well as licensed content like the upcoming 'Battlestar Galactica Online,'" said Hubertz. Once-small companies like Zynga, Bigpoint, Playdom, and Playfish, which Electronic Arts bought for $400 million last year, are finding exponential growth by creating free-to-play casual games that encourage players to get their friends involved. This viral approach to gaming is introducing a whole new audience to videogames. "The 800 pound gorilla in social games is Zynga's 'FarmVille,' which has over 82 million people worldwide playing at least once a month and over 32 million people playing daily," said Justin Davis, founder and editor of www.SocialGameCentral.com "FarmVille," which has been available as an application on Facebook since June last year, involves managing a virtual farm by planting, growing and harvesting crops and raising livestock. Zynga, which has created five of the 10 most popular social games, also attracts an audience of 30 million monthly and 9 million daily with "Cafe World," its second most popular game. Davis said overall Zynga has over 230 million active players across multiple social networks. Even MySpace, which announced a new MySpace Games experience at this month's conference aiming to encourage game makers to cater to its online audience, can attract over 10 million players with games like Playdom's "Mobsters" and Zynga's "Mafia Wars." About one-third of MySpace users currently play games. STRONG GROWTH FORECAST Michael Pachter, videogame analyst for Wedbush Morgan Securities, said social gaming has grown from around $600 million in total revenue in 2008 to $1 billion in 2009 and expects social gaming to bring in around $1.6 billion this year. "The growth rate should remain very high at around 40 percent each of the next three years, so my guess at 2011 is around $2.2 billion, 2012 at $3 billion 2013 at more than $4 billion," said Pachter. While most of this gaming revenue is currently focused on the sale of virtual in-game items, called micro-transactions, Pachter forecasts there will be more advertising revenue and data mining in the future. Game developers are introducing new technologies that could help grow social games even further. Vivox, which provides voice chat services for massively multi-player online games like Nexon's "Combat Arms" and CCP Games' "EVE Online," is working with developer Hive7 to allow Facebook gamers to talk to one another while playing titles like the medieval strategy game "Knighthood." "People will be able to play social games as if they were at the same table," said Rob Seaver, CEO of Vivox. Traditional game companies like Activision Blizzard and Sony Computer Entertainment are connecting console games with social networks like FaceBook and micro-blogging site Twitter where users can send 140- character messages called "tweets." Activision Blizzard's upcoming racing game, "Blur," will automatically write tweets for gamers to send to friends as they unlock achievements. Sony announced at this month's conference that its virtual world, PlayStation Home, which has over 12 million users, will offer more interaction with FaceBook, including notifying players of turn-based games like chess when it's their next move. "I love incorporating my latest achievements on Xbox 360 games like 'BioShock 2' and trophies on PlayStation 3 games like 'Uncharted 2' with my Facebook and Twitter," said Raychul Moore, host for videogame site www.Gamerlive.tv "It allows me to take my love of achievements one step further and share my accomplishments with a much wider group of friends." It's that kind of connected experience that leads David Cole, president of DFC Intelligence, to forecast that the total free-to-play market worldwide excluding Asia will grow from $1 billion in 2009 to over $3 billion in 2013. "The big challenge in 2010 and beyond will be in enhancing gameplay," said Cole. (Editing by Belinda Goldsmith) Message sent using MelbPC WebMail Server From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Sat Mar 27 13:08:54 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:08:54 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Whole of Australian Government Mobile Tender Message-ID: <4BAD68B6.7010802@tomw.net.au> The Department of Finance and Deregulation has issued a Request for Tender for mobile phones, smartphones, wireless broadband modems and services for all of the Australian Government. There is a 1.4 Mbyte document available with the details: . This seems to have generated a lot of interest and there have been more updates about the RFT in a few hours than normally in a few weeks. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From kim at holburn.net Sat Mar 27 14:56:28 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:56:28 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: I got to the first paragraph and it was not actually true. On 2010/Mar/27, at 12:26 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > News Corp to charge for UK Times online from June > > by Georgina Prodhan, London, Fri Mar 26, 2010 www.reuters.com > > > (Reuters) - News Corp will charge readers for online versions of its > UK > Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the first media > firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass-market news online. First media company to ask people to pay for online news? I don't think so. Is its content in general going to be as accurate as this? Off the top of my head I can think of 2 media firms which have had paid news sites for several years. There may be lots of paid sites so obscure that few of us have ever heard of them or that have disappeared into the bit bucket. Kim -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Sat Mar 27 15:22:20 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:22:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Brand Karma In-Reply-To: <20100326123103.2794D7EF@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100326123103.2794D7EF@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4BAD87FC.7010101@hunterlink.net.au> On 26/03/2010 11:31 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > Brands on notice as rating website launches > > by JULIAN LEE March 26, 2010 - 10:04AM > > > ... > > > ... Another Flash - infested site that demands javascript. I'm not curious enough to lower my shields. -- David Boxall | "Cheer up" they said. | "Things could be worse." http://david.boxall.id.au | So I cheered up and, | Sure enough, things got worse. | --Murphy's musing From wavey_one at yahoo.com Sat Mar 27 16:06:11 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The article said "becoming the first media?firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass-market news online." Note the words "mass-market". David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Sat, 27 March, 2010 2:56:28 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > I got to the first paragraph and it was not actually true. On > 2010/Mar/27, at 12:26 PM, > href="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au">stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > > News Corp to charge for UK Times online from June > > by Georgina > Prodhan, London, Fri Mar 26, 2010? www.reuters.com > > > > (Reuters) - News Corp will charge readers for online versions of its? > > UK > Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the > first media > firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass-market news > online. First media company to ask people to pay for online news?? I > don't? think so.? Is its content in general going to be as > accurate as this?? Off the top of my head I can think of 2 media firms > which have had? paid news sites for several years.? There may be > lots of paid sites so? obscure that few of us have ever heard of them > or that have? disappeared into the bit bucket. Kim -- Kim > Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: +61 > 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From ivan at itrundle.com Sat Mar 27 19:51:11 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 19:51:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Brand Karma In-Reply-To: <4BAD87FC.7010101@hunterlink.net.au> References: <20100326123103.2794D7EF@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BAD87FC.7010101@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: <4D8E68DC-B019-4E39-B545-BF72CF991054@itrundle.com> On 27/03/2010, at 3:22 PM, David Boxall wrote: >> >> ... > Another Flash - infested site that demands javascript. A single Flash file* is not what I would classify as 'infested'... (admittedly all I could find in clicking on links for 5 minutes) As for the javascript: it's rare for a web2.0 site to NOT have javascript these days. It's got the regular google-analytics stuff, and a few more scripts to offer movement, light and colour. But what puzzles me is why they're using the Facebook development APIs and Facebook markup (FBML)... And some of the pages are simply blank, even with javascript running (I like to live on the edge). iT From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Sat Mar 27 20:23:46 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 20:23:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] more on the net censorship - Worm Conroy Message-ID: <8heh0f$24bbrf@ipmail06.adl2.internode.on.net> On Conroy's information byway, there's some roadkill http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/on-conroys-information-byway-theres-some-roadkill-20100326-r2z4.html RICK FENELEY March 27, 2010 IF YOU care about democracy, follow the worm. This worm has a name: Stephen Conroy. While Australians were distracted by another worm this week ? top of the screen for Rudd, bottom for Abbott ? few bothered to watch the more insidious wormling, Conroy. We get the democracy we deserve. Our failure to watch the squirming Conroy, the Communications Minister, means we're about to get the web we deserve: among the most censored in the free world. We expect China, North Korea and Iran to filter what their citizens see. If Conroy gets his way, Australians will be subjected to a mandatory filter on internet service providers within a year. Few of us seem to appreciate what he's up to. Fewer seem to care. Conroy received just 174 submissions from the public on his proposal. They included this from a Franz Kafka: "What a joke!" Succinct, unambiguous, not the least Kafkaesque. Unlike Conroy's filter. He and his government want to protect you and your children from images of bestiality and child sexual abuse. They also want to shield you from how-to guides on crime, terrorism and drugs, in case you're ever tempted to commit one, become one or try some. Trouble is, nobody who understands the first thing about the web ? or the behaviour of criminals, terrorists, drug abusers and child molesters ? believes his filter will work. Kiddie porn peddlers use peer-to-peer networks, which will escape the filter. So will emails. But Conroy's feckless filter will have its collateral damage. He rejects the experts' fears about internet speed, but there'll be other roadkill on his information byway. Google, while fighting for a free web in China this week, did the same in Australia. Its submission cautioned that socially and politically controversial material ? say, educational tips on safer drug use ? could be blocked. So could instructions on crimes like euthanasia. Google pointed out that homosexuality was a crime in NSW until 1984. "Political and social norms change over time and benefit from intense public scrutiny and debate," it said. If Conroy found this offensively subversive, another corporate recalcitrant, Yahoo, warned anti-abortion websites could be banned. Most worrying, the minister's black list will be secret. He doesn't want to advertise the stuff to clever geeks. And he says only material that is beyond X-rated ? so refused classification ? will be blocked. We can't get it in newsagencies, on telly or DVD, or at the cinema, so Conroy asks why the web should be any different. Maybe because it is different. Families do not gather round computers and watch passively while fiends bombard them with depravity. The web is a portal to a global library where individuals choose what interests them. If families want net filters, they can get them. Our constitution contains no entrenched right to freedom of speech. We already tolerate severe censorship. It is an offence to watch a cartoon character having sex if it is deemed to be under-age. (When I was of a vulnerable age, I had a serious crush on Penelope Pitstop from Wacky Races and Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward from The Thunderbirds. A cartoon and a puppet, both called Penelope. It's disturbing, I know, but do we need a law against it?) Kate Lundy is Labor's lonely rebel against the filter. Tony Abbott's Liberals are yet to declare a position although Joe Hockey has quoted the RSL maxim: "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.? He fears it will "create the infrastructure for government censorship on a broader scale ... Some may argue that we can surely trust a democratically-elected government in Australia to never try to introduce more widespread censorship. I am not so sure." Hear, hear! Note to the Opposition Leader who opposes everything: bury the worm and your own worm might turn. THEN AGAIN Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From stephen at melbpc.org.au Sat Mar 27 21:57:11 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:57:11 GMT Subject: [LINK] Green ICT ideas Message-ID: <20100327105712.0102B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Hi all, It appears that there would be many, many ways to implement responsible, green-ICT, and, that our ACS could (should?) investigate and disseminate very widely simple ways to achieve such responsible green-ICT utilization. For just one example, only today, the choice of fonts .. 'University Thinks the Right Font Could Help Save the Earth' By ZAC BISSONNETTE Posted 8:53 AM 03/26/10 The University of Wisconsin - Green Bay .. says that printing out documents in Century Gothic, rather than its old font, Arial, uses 30% less ink. The move is part of the school's five-year plan to go green -- and save money. Printer ink costs about $10,000 per gallon. It's possible that if everyone were to start using Century Gothic instead of Arial for all correspondence that is printed, meaningful savings could be achieved .. -- Cheers people Stephen Loosley From kim at holburn.net Sat Mar 27 22:25:36 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:25:36 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2010/Mar/27, at 4:06 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > The article said "becoming the first media firm to test consumers' > appetite to pay for mass-market news online." Note the words "mass- > market". What does it mean to you, "mass-market"? In this article there's a chart of 27 newspapers who put up a paywall: http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2010/01/only-24-subscribe-at-newspaper-pay.html > Only 2.4% subscribe at newspaper pay sites > A puny 2.4% of print subscribers is the average number of people > paying for online content at the handful of daily newspapers that > have been bold enough to erect pay walls, according to a new survey. > > In the first comprehensive study of actual consumer willingness to > pay for online news, ITZ/Belden Interactive delivered both good and > bad tidings to publishers hoping to begin charging for their content. > The real problem is that printed newspapers are funded by advertising, not the token fee or subscription. The internet does classifieds better than newspapers ever could. http://blog.wakefly.com/bid/11478/Online-Newspaper-Pay-Walls-Online-Newspapers-Fail-to-Monetize > First, the New York Times failed with Times Select. Now, the same > fate has befallen Newsday's pay wall: > > In late October, Newsday, the Long Island daily that the Dolans > bought for $650 million, put its web site, newsday.com, behind a pay > wall. The paper was one of the first non-business newspapers to take > the plunge by putting up a pay wall, so in media circles it has been > followed with interest. Could its fate be a sign of what others, > including The New York Times, might expect? > > So, three months later, how many people have signed up to pay $5 a > week, or $260 a year, to get unfettered access to newsday.com? > > The answer: 35 people. As in fewer than three dozen. As in a decent- > sized elementary-school class. > > Times Select had readers pay $50 a year to read the newspaper's > columnists as well as have access to the full, historical archives > and other premium material. After drawing 221,000 subscribers, the > newspaper pulled the initiative because advertising revenue > declined. Newsday took it one step further and charged for all > website access (except for print subscribers). Both did not succeed. And yet there are also successful examples of online newspapers with paywalls. > > David > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Sat, 27 March, 2010 2:56:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> I got to the first paragraph and it was not actually true. > > On >> 2010/Mar/27, at 12:26 PM, > href="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au">stephen at melbpc.org.au >> wrote: > >> >> News Corp to charge for UK Times online from June >> >> by Georgina >> Prodhan, London, Fri Mar 26, 2010 www.reuters.com >> >> >> >> (Reuters) - News Corp will charge readers for online versions of its >> >> UK >> Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the >> first media >> firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass-market news >> online. > > First media company to ask people to pay for online news? I >> don't > think so. Is its content in general going to be as >> accurate as this? > Off the top of my head I can think of 2 media firms >> which have had > paid news sites for several years. There may be >> lots of paid sites so > obscure that few of us have ever heard of them >> or that have > disappeared into the bit bucket. > > Kim > -- > Kim >> Holburn > IT Network & Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 >> 404072753 > mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> request > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From ivan at itrundle.com Sat Mar 27 22:25:53 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:25:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Green ICT ideas In-Reply-To: <20100327105712.0102B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100327105712.0102B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <0967A638-1C9F-4992-9B63-3425B8480EB7@itrundle.com> On 27/03/2010, at 9:57 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > The University of Wisconsin - Green Bay .. says that printing out > documents in Century Gothic, rather than its old font, Arial, uses 30% > less ink. Linotype produced Agilita (sans serif font) back in 2007 as an attempt to use less ink (and InkSaver was invented in 2008 doing much the same) - but it's Ecofont which is the real champ, in that it affects ALL fonts: it makes each font used use 20% less ink (so you're not stuck to using Century Gothic or InkSaver). Century Gothic (CG) is a spectacularly muddied font overall, with too much similarity with ITC's Avant Garde, with very rounded geometry). It's not the easiest on the eye. CG is fine if you're a Star Trek fan (they use Century Gothic in the Star Trek series). There's another significant issue in using fonts like CG: to make it visually readable, the leading needs to be increased over other fonts, so with greater line spacing, more paper is used (okay, so we are saving ink, but using more paper). The content of a document will often dictate a choice of font: CG and Avant Garde etc are considered very 'arty', and not as content-neutral as Helvetica, Stone Sans or Myriad. Look for a copy of Grafik Magazine (from the UK) if you want to see how this style of font can look on a page: it is a hard read. Because of their geometry, fonts like Century Gothic are too extreme (read: arty and values-laden) to be taken seriously in the printing world. Writers who print their own material for distribution should take note, and if they really want to save ink, invest in Ecofont instead (and be prepared for moire effects and other. Better still, investigate buying paper with tighter weaves (less ink spread in inkjet printing), or align the printhead properly. There's also software such as PretonSaver (from halftheink.com), but I've not tried it yet. iT From ivan at itrundle.com Sat Mar 27 22:30:37 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:30:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 27/03/2010, at 10:25 PM, Kim Holburn wrote: > The internet does classifieds > better than newspapers ever could. Any many of the new classifieds sites are doing it for free. No longer do people expect to pay to sell (or buy) something. The new model is to get millions of users, using the site for free, then selling the site to a new owner (read: venture capitalist, or takeover agent) who can then leverage the userbase. For better or worse. iT -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From leo.litongliu at gmail.com Sat Mar 27 22:54:48 2010 From: leo.litongliu at gmail.com (Litong LIU) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 19:54:48 +0800 Subject: [LINK] Twitter_Could you please do me a favor? Message-ID: <3d68c1e01003270454v3e1f200fl72791047f8dfef19@mail.gmail.com> Dear friends, Thank you for your time! I am a research student from City University of Hong Kong. We are conducting a research on the usage of Twitter. Could you please do me a favor to complete the questionnaire if you use Twitter? http://www.my3q.com/home2/318/researchccheung/59863.phtml We have prepared a lucky draw of US$10 vouchers for you. I really appreciate your kindly help! Thank you a lot! Best regards, Ivy Department of Information Systems City University of HK From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Sun Mar 28 08:04:45 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 08:04:45 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Green ICT ideas In-Reply-To: <20100327105712.0102B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100327105712.0102B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <8kdreu$44pk2k@ipmail06.adl6.internode.on.net> At 09:57 PM 27/03/2010, stephen at melbpc.org.au you wrote: >The move is part of the school's five-year plan to go green -- and save >money. Printer ink costs about $10,000 per gallon. That figure cannot be right. Does it have gold in it? Or maybe someone is figuring based on $50+ ink cartridges? That would be 200 cartridges and may make some sense. Maybe they should move away from personal inkjet printers and use laser or possibly negotiate a better purchasing contract on their cartridges or start using refillables. I did a bit of calculation. One website says an HP88 model takes 47.5ml of ink. That equates to 1.6 ounces. There are 128 ounces in a gallon. There is a value site where you can pay $60 for the 4 cartridge pack. That's. $27.50/ounce times 128 = $4800/gallon. Even the manufacturers price is only $71 for each individual cartridge in total. $44.37/ounce times 128 = $5680/gallon Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From kim at holburn.net Sun Mar 28 10:43:39 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:43:39 +1100 Subject: [LINK] China's Great Firewall spreads overseas Message-ID: <5A7FDA19-9CAD-47FF-AEF1-48B7580516BF@holburn.net> Censorship can leak out of censored countries and affect people outside: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/032510-chinas-great-firewall-spreads.html > China's Great Firewall spreads overseas > Bad DNS information affects users in Chile, US > By Robert McMillan, IDG News Service > March 25, 2010 04:31 PM ET > > A networking error has caused computers in Chile and the U.S. to > come under the control of the Great Firewall of China, redirecting > Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube users to Chinese servers. > Five ways to beat the Great Firewall of China > > Security experts are not sure exactly how this happened, but it > appears that at least one ISP recently began fetching high-level > DNS (domain name server) information from what's known as a root DNS > server, based in China. That server, operated out of China by > Swedish service provider Netnod, returned DNS information intended > for Chinese users, effectively spreading China's network censorship > overseas. China tightly controls access to a number of Web sites, > using technology known colloquially as the Great Firewall of China. > > The issue was reported Wednesday by Mauricio Ereche, a DNS admin > with NIC Chile, who found that an unnamed local ISP reported that > DNS queries for sites such as Facebook.com, Twitter.com and > YouTube.com -- all of which have been blocked in China -- were being > redirected to bogus addresses. > > Related Content > It is unclear how widespread the problem is. Ereche reported getting > the bogus information from three network access points in Chile, and > one in California, but on Thursday he said that the problem was no > longer popping up. "The traces show us that we're not hitting the > server in China," he wrote in a discussion group post. > > This issue occurred because, for some reason, at least one outside > ISP directed DNS requests to a root server based in China, > networking experts say. This is something that service providers > outside of China should not do because it allows China's censored > network to "leak" outside of the country. > > Researchers have long known that China has changed DNS routing > information to redirect users of censored services to government-run > servers instead of sites such as Facebook and Twitter. But this is > the first public disclosure that those routes have leaked outside > of China, according to Rodney Joffe, a senior technologist with DNS > services company Neustar. "All of a sudden, the consequences are > that people outside China may be subverted or redirected to servers > inside China," he said. > > By using a China-based root server, ISPs are essentially giving > China a way to control all of their users' traffic over the network. > That could mean big security problems for people whose network > accepted the leaked routes, Joffe said. > > The ISP that used the bad routes probably misconfigured its BGP > (Border Gateway Protocol) system, used to route information on the > Internet, according to Danny McPherson, chief security officer with > Arbor Networks. "I don't think it was done intentionally, " he > said. "This is an example of how easy it is for this information to > be contaminated or corrupted or leaked out beyond the boundaries of > what it was supposed to be." > > In February 2008, BGP information from Pakistan -- which had just > blocked YouTube -- was shared internationally, effectively knocking > Google's video site offline for millions of users. > -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Sun Mar 28 11:11:06 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:11:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Do not call register suspicious messages Message-ID: <4BAE9E9A.3040705@tomw.net.au> The Australian Communications and Media Authority sent me a reminder to re-register my phone number with the Do Not Call Register . One problem with this is that it is a re-registration, not a renewal, that is you can't simply click a box to renew your existing details, you have to type it all in again. Presumably that helps with privacy, but also makes the process more cumbersome. A more serious problem is that the reminder message looks like Spam. The message says "Just click here: www.donotcall.gov.au" but the actual web address linked is: (where ***** was a long number, presumably to track me). This makes the message look suspicious and I almost deleted it without responding. ACMA should know better than to use this sort of practice in mail messages. The result will be a reduction in trust of ACMA, fewer people renewing their do not call registration and an increased risk of Spamers fooling people that they are the real register. The confirmation message ACMA sent also had problems. My SpamAssassin Spam filter, reported it has having: HTML_MESSAGE 0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG 0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY 0.723. These were not enough to have the message blocked, but ACMA should compose messages which do not look like Spam. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Sun Mar 28 11:59:30 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:59:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] China's Great Firewall spreads overseas In-Reply-To: <5A7FDA19-9CAD-47FF-AEF1-48B7580516BF@holburn.net> References: <5A7FDA19-9CAD-47FF-AEF1-48B7580516BF@holburn.net> Message-ID: [Back in 2005, I speculated about ways in which China's modifications to backbone router technology would find its way into backbones outside China: http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/networks/the-net-effect/0 "The features that China wants installed in intermediating devices and software will gradually find their way into all of the suppliers' products, if only because it's cheaper that way." [But I didn't think of this one!] At 10:43 +1100 28/3/10, Kim Holburn wrote: >Censorship can leak out of censored countries and affect people outside: > >> China's Great Firewall spreads overseas >> Bad DNS information affects users in Chile, US >> By Robert McMillan, IDG News Service >> March 25, 2010 04:31 PM ET >http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/032510-chinas-great-firewall-spreads.html >> ... it appears that at least one ISP recently began fetching high-level >> DNS (domain name server) information from what's known as a root DNS >> server, based in China. That server, operated out of China by >> Swedish service provider Netnod, returned DNS information intended >> for Chinese users, effectively spreading China's network censorship >> overseas. China tightly controls access to a number of Web sites, >> using technology known colloquially as the Great Firewall of China. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From wavey_one at yahoo.com Sun Mar 28 16:45:08 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> A definition of mass market is "A product that is designed for the mass market is intended to be bought by as many people as possible, not just by people with a lot of money or a special interest". Therefore this means The Times and Sunday Times are the first mass market newspapers to put up paywalls for all their content. After all, others such as the New York Times did for parts of the newspaper. But their opinion writers complained that very few people were reading their articles. So Times Select is a poor example and it wasn't to do with declines in advertising revenue. The article refers to does not include any mass market newspapers. As for a survey asking if people will subscribe, well, you don't have to be very bright to find that people won't pay if they are given the choice. Successful newspapers with paywalls aren't mass market newspapers. Examples many would have heard of are the WSJ and FT. As for the AFR - does anyone know if they are successful? Elsewhere in the world newspapers are bleeding money. Even those dedicated to being free have problems. The Guardian is one, but they are bleeding money. But they are lucky and they can probably lose money forever more and could benefit from paywalls on most newspapers and possibly become the world's biggest online newspaper. It will be interesting to see how The Times/Sunday Times proposal pans out. They need very few readers to pay to get more money than they now get from advertising. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Sat, 27 March, 2010 10:25:36 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/27, at 4:06 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > The article > said "becoming the first media firm to test consumers'? > appetite > to pay for mass-market news online." Note the words "mass- > > market". What does it mean to you, "mass-market"? In this article > there's a chart of 27 newspapers who put up a paywall: > href="http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2010/01/only-24-subscribe-at-newspaper-pay.html" > target=_blank > >http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2010/01/only-24-subscribe-at-newspaper-pay.html > > Only 2.4% subscribe at newspaper pay sites > A puny 2.4% of print > subscribers is the average number of people? > paying for online > content at the handful of daily newspapers that? > have been bold > enough to erect pay walls, according to a new survey. > > In the > first comprehensive study of actual consumer willingness to? > pay > for online news, ITZ/Belden Interactive delivered both good and? > > bad tidings to publishers hoping to begin charging for their > content. > The real problem is that printed newspapers are funded > by advertising,? not the token fee or subscription.? The internet > does classifieds? better than newspapers ever could. > href="http://blog.wakefly.com/bid/11478/Online-Newspaper-Pay-Walls-Online-Newspapers-Fail-to-Monetize" > target=_blank > >http://blog.wakefly.com/bid/11478/Online-Newspaper-Pay-Walls-Online-Newspapers-Fail-to-Monetize > > First, the New York Times failed with Times Select. Now, the same? > > fate has befallen Newsday's pay wall: > > In late October, Newsday, > the Long Island daily that the Dolans? > bought for $650 million, > put its web site, newsday.com, behind a pay? > wall. The paper was > one of the first non-business newspapers to take? > the plunge by > putting up a pay wall, so in media circles it has been? > followed > with interest. Could its fate be a sign of what others,? > including > The New York Times, might expect? > > So, three months later, how > many people have signed up to pay $5 a? > week, or $260 a year, to > get unfettered access to newsday.com? > > The answer: 35 people. As > in fewer than three dozen. As in a decent- > sized elementary-school > class. > > Times Select had readers pay $50 a year to read the > newspaper's? > columnists as well as have access to the full, > historical archives? > and other premium material. After drawing > 221,000 subscribers, the? > newspaper pulled the initiative because > advertising revenue? > declined. Newsday took it one step further > and charged for all? > website access (except for print > subscribers). Both did not succeed. And yet there are also > successful examples of online newspapers with? > paywalls. > > David > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> To: Link list > <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> Sent: Sat, 27 > March, 2010 2:56:28 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers > online >> >> I got to the first paragraph and it was not > actually true. > > On >> 2010/Mar/27, at 12:26 PM, > > href="mailto:> href="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au">stephen at melbpc.org.au">> ymailto="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au" > href="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au">stephen at melbpc.org.au >>? > wrote: > >> >> News Corp to charge for UK Times online > from June >> >> by Georgina >> Prodhan, London, Fri > Mar 26, 2010? > www.reuters.com >> >> >> >> (Reuters) - News > Corp will charge readers for online versions of its >> >> > UK >> Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming > the >> first media >> firm to test consumers' appetite to pay > for mass-market news >> online. > > First media company to > ask people to pay for online news?? I >> don't > think > so.? Is its content in general going to be as >> accurate as > this? > Off the top of my head I can think of 2 media firms >> > which have had > paid news sites for several years.? There may > be >> lots of paid sites so > obscure that few of us have ever > heard of them >> or that have > disappeared into the bit > bucket. > > Kim > -- > Kim >> Holburn > > IT Network & Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408? M: > +61 >> 404072753 > mailto:> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> > aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> > request > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing > list >> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> > href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" > target=_blank >>> > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > -- > Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 > 61402408? M: +61 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From ivan at itrundle.com Sun Mar 28 16:55:03 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:55:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> On 28/03/2010, at 4:45 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Elsewhere in the world newspapers are bleeding money. Even those dedicated to being free have problems. The Guardian is one, but they are bleeding money. But they are lucky and they can probably lose money forever more and could benefit from paywalls on most newspapers and possibly become the world's biggest online newspaper. I don't agree at all here... Murdoch's manic move will be a tremendous boon to organisations such as the BBC, and here in Australia, the ABC. Each country offers very different landscapes when it comes to looking at the overall news distribution system. But reporters only see what's in front of their own nose in most instances. Newspapers might be bleeding money in some places, but in others they are still very, very profitable (especially in places like India and China, interestingly). Bland generalisations such as 'all newspapers are doomed' etc don't deserve the attention that they are getting, and most pundits fail to see the wood for the trees. I'm not even certain that 'news' is really news any more... iT From pmusumeci at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 17:43:20 2010 From: pmusumeci at gmail.com (Phillip Musumeci) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:43:20 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Green ICT ideas and ink costs (Link Vol 208 #42) Message-ID: At 09:57 PM 27/03/2010, stephen at melbpc.org.au you wrote: > > >The move is part of the school's five-year plan to go green -- and save > >money. Printer ink costs about $10,000 per gallon. > > That figure cannot be right. Does it have gold in it? ~~~text cut~~~ > That's. $27.50/ounce times 128 = $4800/gallon. > Even the manufacturers price is only $71 for each individual > cartridge in total. $44.37/ounce times 128 = $5680/gallon Ink for inkjets can be extremely expensive because of the high material demands. Example: very high speed industrial inkjets are shooting ink at paper moving >1m/s (3.6km/hr) and the ink droplets can easily bounce off the paper surface. The adhesive force characteristics of the ink have to be strong enough with the paper fibre to have the droplet be "sucked into" the paper on contact or for surface printing there must be rapid drying, preferably without a smudge effect as the paper moves. Ideally, the payload of the ink (some particles with a desired colour or some such optical property) must be reliably lodged inside or onto the paper surface. At the same time, the ink must not adhere so strongly to the print head chamber (often a piezo crystal) that it is too hard to shoot out by heating or squeezing, but it must adhere strongly enough that it won't evaporate and cause print heads to need priming and break print on demand. In around 2000, black inks satisfying these sorts of requirements cost approx. $1500 or more per litre and I guess the price has since increased. By the way, the disclosed contents of some inks did not seem particularly safe to me and yet they were "standard industry practice" - maybe it is a good thing that ink is expensive and droplets are small. Phillip Musumeci From wavey_one at yahoo.com Sun Mar 28 18:17:42 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I suggest you read the discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times in greater detail. Sure every country has some differences, and the BBC and ABC will benefit. But you seem to fail to understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money from licence fee/government. You seem to not realise that the 2 aforementioned papers only need a small percentage of their online readers to pay for access for them to be getting more money than they currently do from online advertising. Just because millions of people read your newspapers online doesn't mean you earn much money from advertising. As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will want to read them. The large mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK and mass market papers in the US are global media outlets now. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ivan Trundle > To: Link list > Sent: Sun, 28 March, 2010 4:55:03 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 28/03/2010, at 4:45 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Elsewhere in > the world newspapers are bleeding money. Even those dedicated to being free have > problems. The Guardian is one, but they are bleeding money. But they are lucky > and they can probably lose money forever more and could benefit from paywalls on > most newspapers and possibly become the world's biggest online > newspaper. I don't agree at all here... Murdoch's manic move will > be a tremendous boon to organisations such as the BBC, and here in Australia, > the ABC. Each country offers very different landscapes when it comes to > looking at the overall news distribution system. But reporters only see what's > in front of their own nose in most instances. Newspapers might be > bleeding money in some places, but in others they are still very, very > profitable (especially in places like India and China, > interestingly). Bland generalisations such as 'all newspapers are doomed' > etc don't deserve the attention that they are getting, and most pundits fail to > see the wood for the trees. I'm not even certain that 'news' is really news any > more... iT _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Sun Mar 28 19:00:10 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:00:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Brand Karma In-Reply-To: <4D8E68DC-B019-4E39-B545-BF72CF991054@itrundle.com> References: <20100326123103.2794D7EF@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BAD87FC.7010101@hunterlink.net.au> <4D8E68DC-B019-4E39-B545-BF72CF991054@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <4BAF0C8A.1070007@hunterlink.net.au> On 27/03/2010 7:51 PM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 27/03/2010, at 3:22 PM, David Boxall wrote: >>> >>> ... >> Another Flash - infested site that demands javascript. > > A single Flash file* is not what I would classify as 'infested'... In my experience, Flash is like cockroaches. If you see one, it's a safe bet that legions lurk unseen. I therefore consider one an infestation. > ... > But what puzzles me is why they're using the Facebook development APIs > and Facebook markup (FBML)... > > xmlns:fb="http://www.facebook.com/2008/fbml"> > Maybe the template made them do it. > And some of the pages are simply blank, even with javascript running ... It must be amateur hour. -- David Boxall | I have seen the past | And it worked. http://david.boxall.id.au | --TJ Hooker From ivan at itrundle.com Sun Mar 28 19:10:14 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:10:14 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 28/03/2010, at 6:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > I suggest you read the discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times in greater detail. I have: it's one of my favourite areas of interest. Might I suggest that you come down off your high horse? > Sure every country has some differences, and the BBC and ABC will benefit. But you seem to fail to understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money from licence fee/government. No, I do not. > You seem to not realise that the 2 aforementioned papers only need a small percentage of their online readers to pay for access for them to be getting more money than they currently do from online advertising. No, I do not. > Just because millions of people read your newspapers online doesn't mean you earn much money from advertising. I was making no comparisons with advertising revenue and the profitability of a news media outlet. > As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will want to read them. So what? Their readership is large enough to warrant a different outlook. > The large mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK and mass market papers in the US are global media outlets now. They've got a long way to go before they are truly global in news presentation. And whilst Murdoch might have a global presence, each market is different. iT From kauer at biplane.com.au Sun Mar 28 20:13:36 2010 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:13:36 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1269767616.923.102.camel@karl> On Sun, 2010-03-28 at 00:17 -0700, David Goldstein wrote: > As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few people outside > those countries will want to read them. The large mass market > newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK and mass market papers in the US > are global media outlets now. > China and India are mass markets all on their own. Approximately 2.4 billion people in a world with about 6.8 billion. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) +61-2-64957160 (h) http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob) GPG fingerprint: B386 7819 B227 2961 8301 C5A9 2EBC 754B CD97 0156 Old fingerprint: 07F3 1DF9 9D45 8BCD 7DD5 00CE 4A44 6A03 F43A 7DEF From wavey_one at yahoo.com Sun Mar 28 21:37:07 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 03:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Ivan?and Karl, mention the large readership of Indian and Chinese newspapers. But they are not global players like several British or American news outlets. Plus the markets may be large but there is little money. Hence why, as many people say, Google pulled out of China. They made very little money there and so their decision was very easy. Newspapers such as The Guardian and New York Times are widely read throughout the world. And once people get over the anti-Murdoch sentiment that pervades this list, people might have a reasonable debate on the pluses and minuses of paywalls for news content. At least the press in the UK has been debating this with interesting points for and against. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ivan Trundle > To: Link list > Sent: Sun, 28 March, 2010 7:10:14 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 28/03/2010, at 6:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > I suggest you > read the discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times in greater > detail. I have: it's one of my favourite areas of interest. Might I > suggest that you come down off your high horse? > Sure every country > has some differences, and the BBC and ABC will benefit. But you seem to fail to > understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money from licence > fee/government. No, I do not. > You seem to not realise that > the 2 aforementioned papers only need a small percentage of their online readers > to pay for access for them to be getting more money than they currently do from > online advertising. No, I do not. > Just because millions of > people read your newspapers online doesn't mean you earn much money from > advertising. I was making no comparisons with advertising revenue and the > profitability of a news media outlet. > As for the Chinese and Indian > newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will want to read > them. So what? Their readership is large enough to warrant a different > outlook. > The large mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK > and mass market papers in the US are global media outlets now. They've > got a long way to go before they are truly global in news presentation. And > whilst Murdoch might have a global presence, each market is > different. iT _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From tom.worthington at tomw.net.au Mon Mar 29 08:46:50 2010 From: tom.worthington at tomw.net.au (Tom Worthington) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:46:50 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Green ICT ideas In-Reply-To: <20100327105712.0102B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100327105712.0102B6B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4BAFCE4A.50506@tomw.net.au> stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > ... ACS ... disseminate ... responsible green-ICT ... The ACS included suggestions for green ICT, with the first Australian ICT carbon audit in 2007: . The ACS then commissioned me to design a course on green ICT and allowed the material to be open access. See "Green Technology Strategies": . The ACS will be releasing a follow-up national ICT carbon audit in the next few weeks. > For just one example, only today, the che roice of fonts ... > > 'University Thinks the Right Font Could Help Save the Earth' > By ZAC BISSONNETTE Posted 8:53 AM 03/26/10 ... While every little bit helps, I don't think changing the font used to reduce ink usage should be a priority. Along with using a black background for web pages to reduce energy use, this is one of those ideas which sounds appealing, but is of little practical value. The place to start with green ICT is to use less equipment and use it more effectively. As an example, I get my students to estimate energy use of ICT in their organisations. One student discovered their organisation was using about ten times as much power as expected for printers. It turned out they had ten times as many printers as needed. Reducing the number of printers would have a much larger beneficial environmental effect, than changing the font used. One technique to reduce printer and ink use is to print less. Educational institutions can distribute course material online and accept student assignments the same way. The green ICT courses I run for ANU and ACS (and next semester for Open Universities Australia) are online. There are no printed materials required and students submit their assignments electronically. This saves a paper and ink (as well as student travel), at the cost of increased electricity and computer materials use. -- Tom Worthington FACS HLM, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Adjunct Lecturer, The Australian National University t: 02 61255694 Computer Science http://cs.anu.edu.au/user/3890 From kim at holburn.net Mon Mar 29 13:01:21 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:01:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/28, at 6:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > You seem to not realise that the 2 aforementioned papers only need a > small percentage of their online readers to pay for access for them > to be getting more money than they currently do from online > advertising. They don't need more money than the currently get from online advertising, they need something like what they used to get from print advertising which is considerably more. > Just because millions of people read your newspapers online doesn't > mean you earn much money from advertising. Then you're doing it wrong. > As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few people outside > those countries will want to read them. The large mass market > newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK and mass market papers in the US > are global media outlets now. Perhaps you meant English newspapers. I would have thought a market of 1.3 billion (or so) was a mass market. What you seem to be saying is that the only mass market media is Murdoch. So then the original statement : > Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the first > media firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass-market news > online. May as well be : > Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the first > Murdoch news sites to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass- > market news online. On 2010/Mar/28, at 9:37 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Ivan and Karl, mention the large readership of Indian and Chinese > newspapers. But they are not global players like several British or > American news outlets. Yeah there are only Chinese people in ... every country in the world. > Plus the markets may be large but there is little money. Not true. > Hence why, as many people say, Google pulled out of China. They made > very little money there and so their decision was very easy. You know they made little money there for sure? And that was the reason they pulled out? > Newspapers such as The Guardian and New York Times are widely read > throughout the world. > > And once people get over the anti-Murdoch sentiment that pervades > this list, Compared to you we're probably all virulently anti-Murdoch. > people might have a reasonable debate on the pluses and minuses of > paywalls for news content. At least the press in the UK has been > debating this with interesting points for and against. Why do we have to debate it? The debate that really matters, as they say, is the one which makes the money. We only have to wait a while until we get to the "I told you so" bit. > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Ivan Trundle >> To: Link list >> Sent: Sun, 28 March, 2010 7:10:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 28/03/2010, at 6:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> I suggest you >> read the discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times in >> greater >> detail. > > I have: it's one of my favourite areas of interest. Might I >> suggest that you come down off your high horse? > >> Sure every country >> has some differences, and the BBC and ABC will benefit. But you >> seem to fail to >> understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money from licence >> fee/government. > > No, I do not. > >> You seem to not realise that >> the 2 aforementioned papers only need a small percentage of their >> online readers >> to pay for access for them to be getting more money than they >> currently do from >> online advertising. > > No, I do not. > >> Just because millions of >> people read your newspapers online doesn't mean you earn much money >> from >> advertising. > > I was making no comparisons with advertising revenue and the >> profitability of a news media outlet. > >> As for the Chinese and Indian >> newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will want to read >> them. > > So what? Their readership is large enough to warrant a different >> outlook. > >> The large mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK >> and mass market papers in the US are global media outlets now. > > They've >> got a long way to go before they are truly global in news >> presentation. And >> whilst Murdoch might have a global presence, each market is >> different. > > iT > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From stil at stilgherrian.com Mon Mar 29 13:13:07 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:13:07 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Filter: Tonight Conroy to debate EFA, Lumby, Newton Message-ID: <803B5235-E72D-4A52-AB29-5C854D85758D@stilgherrian.com> Tonight at 6pm AEDT on ABC Radio National's "Australia Talks", presenter Paul Barclay chairs a discussion between Senator Stephen Conroy, vociferous filter critic network engineer Internode's Mark Newton, Electronic Frontiers Australia vice president Colin Jacobs, UNSW journalism professor Catharine Lumby, and Michael Grace, regional chief for internet filtering company Netsweeper. http://delimiter.com.au/2010/03/29/filter-conroy-to-debate-efa-newton-tonight/ Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From wavey_one at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 13:17:23 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> Message-ID: <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Of course, I wouldn't expect anything else from this list?but Murdoch bashing. As for my comments, if you had read the, I have mentioned the BBC, The Guardian and New York Times as well, and I wasn't aware these were owned by Murdoch. As for Chinese newspapers being mass market, you can argue they are in their own country. I'm arguing on a global scale. As I said earlier, they don't have huge readerships outside their own countries. Not that I've seen figures to indicate it, but I would be surprised if readership for Chinese newspapers online goes anywhere near those of, say, The Guardian, New York Times, BBC, Daily Telegraph and even The Times and Sunday Times. As for Chinese newspaper etc making money, everything I've read on issues on Chinese markets indicates the markets would not be huge. Of course there are websites like Tencent (or something similar) that have made their owners billions, but as many western companies have found, it's entertainment that makes the money in China and many Asian countries. Not news. And of course Kim, you must know everything. And more than every mass market newspaper that has tried to make money online from advertising, as I doubt there is one that has made money. But then you can go into discussions about how Chinese spend money, that they like to save a greater percentage of their incomes than almost all western countries and a range of other issues. I totally agree that "They don't need more money than the currently get from online?advertising, they need something like what they used to get from print?advertising which is considerably more." But your comment has nothing to do with my comment you related it to. And yes, we will see what happens. And if you read my comments, I haven't said anything in favour of Murdoch. All I've done is comment on the idea of paywalls. I'm happy to discuss the merits or otherwise of Murdoch and his media empire, but it's not what this discussion is about. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 1:01:21 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/28, at 6:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > You seem to not > realise that the 2 aforementioned papers only need a? > small > percentage of their online readers to pay for access for them? > to > be getting more money than they currently do from online? > > advertising. They don't need more money than the currently get from > online? advertising, they need something like what they used to get > from print? advertising which is considerably more. > Just > because millions of people read your newspapers online doesn't? > > mean you earn much money from advertising. Then you're doing it > wrong. > As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few people > outside? > those countries will want to read them. The large mass > market? > newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK and mass market papers > in the US? > are global media outlets now. Perhaps you meant > English newspapers.? I would have thought a market? of 1.3 billion > (or so) was a mass market. What you seem to be saying is that the > only mass market media is? Murdoch.? So then the original > statement : > Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the > first? > media firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for > mass-market news? > online. May as well be : > Times > and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the first? > Murdoch > news sites to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass- > market news > online. On 2010/Mar/28, at 9:37 PM, David Goldstein > wrote: > Ivan and Karl, mention the large readership of Indian and > Chinese? > newspapers. But they are not global players like several > British or? > American news outlets. Yeah there are only > Chinese people in ... every country in the world. > Plus the markets > may be large but there is little money. Not true. > Hence why, > as many people say, Google pulled out of China. They made? > very > little money there and so their decision was very easy. You know they > made little money there for sure?? And that was the? reason they > pulled out? > Newspapers such as The Guardian and New York Times are > widely read? > throughout the world. > > And once people > get over the anti-Murdoch sentiment that pervades? > this > list, Compared to you we're probably all virulently > anti-Murdoch. > people might have a reasonable debate on the pluses > and minuses of? > paywalls for news content. At least the press in > the UK has been? > debating this with interesting points for and > against. Why do we have to debate it?? The debate that really > matters, as they? say, is the one which makes the money.? We only > have to wait a while? until we get to the "I told you so" > bit. > > David > > > > ----- Original > Message ---- >> From: Ivan Trundle <> ymailto="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com" > href="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com">ivan at itrundle.com> >> To: Link > list <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> Sent: Sun, 28 > March, 2010 7:10:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers > online >> >> > On 28/03/2010, at 6:17 PM, David > Goldstein wrote: > >> I suggest you >> read the > discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times in? >> > greater >> detail. > > I have: it's one of my favourite > areas of interest. Might I >> suggest that you come down off your high > horse? > >> Sure every country >> has some differences, > and the BBC and ABC will benefit. But you? >> seem to fail > to >> understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money from > licence >> fee/government. > > No, I do > not. > >> You seem to not realise that >> the 2 > aforementioned papers only need a small percentage of their? >> > online readers >> to pay for access for them to be getting more money > than they? >> currently do from >> online > advertising. > > No, I do not. > >> Just because > millions of >> people read your newspapers online doesn't mean you earn > much money? >> from >> advertising. > > I > was making no comparisons with advertising revenue and the >> > profitability of a news media outlet. > >> As for the Chinese and > Indian >> newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will want > to read >> them. > > So what? Their readership is large > enough to warrant a different >> outlook. > >> The large > mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK >> and mass market > papers in the US are global media outlets now. > > > They've >> got a long way to go before they are truly global in > news? >> presentation. And >> whilst Murdoch might have > a global presence, each market is >> different. > > > iT > _______________________________________________ > > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> > href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" > target=_blank >>> > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing > list > > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim > Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: > +61 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au Mon Mar 29 12:48:11 2010 From: Fred.Pilcher at act.gov.au (Pilcher, Fred) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:48:11 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Brand Karma In-Reply-To: <4BAF0C8A.1070007@hunterlink.net.au> References: <20100326123103.2794D7EF@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BAD87FC.7010101@hunterlink.net.au><4D8E68DC-B019-4E39-B545-BF72CF991054@itrundle.com> <4BAF0C8A.1070007@hunterlink.net.au> Message-ID: <04BB2ABCD8D07E42ADCF98494C1A2C720FE752AE@cal066.act.gov.au> > On 27/03/2010 7:51 PM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > > On 27/03/2010, at 3:22 PM, David Boxall wrote: > >>> > >>> ... > >> Another Flash - infested site that demands javascript. You're lucky - it told me that I needed to install Silverlight. I left them an appropriate suggestion. Fred ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ivan at itrundle.com Mon Mar 29 14:00:18 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:00:18 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm not at all keen to sustain the tone of the current thread, so here are some interesting figures on newspaper circulation instead: Rank Title Country Circulation (000) 1 Yomiuri Shimbun Japan 14,067 2 The Asahi Shimbun Japan 12,121 3 Mainichi Shimbun Japan 5,587 4 Nihon Keizai Shimbun Japan 4,635 5 Chunichi Shimbun Japan 4,512 6 Bild Germany 3,867 7 Sankei Shimbun Japan 2,757 8 Canako Xiaoxi (Beijing) China 2,627 9 People?s Daily China 2,509 10 Tokyo Sports Japan 2,425 11 The Sun United Kingdom 2,419 12 The Chosun Ilbo South Korea 2,378 13 USA Today USA 2,310 14 The Wall Street Journal USA 2,107 15 Daily Mail UK 2,093 16 The Joongang Ilbo South Korea 2,084 17 The Dong-A Ilbo South Korea 2,052 18 Nikkan Sports Japan 1,965 19 Hokkaido Shimbun Japan 1,922 20 Dainik Jagran India 1,911 (http://www.wan-press.org/article2825.html) Granted, this is almost 5-yr-old data, and some papers don't submit their figures for independent audit, but it supports the premise that China tops the list in terms of circulation in total, (93.5 million per day), followed by India with 78.8 million, Japan with 70.4 million, and US with 48.3 million. Russia is notably absent, though it is rumoured that if they were audited, then they'd outstrip most others. Okay, so that's in print. It's harder to find this information on a world scale, since companies such as Alexa and Compete don't truly represent world data traffic. However, sites such as bbc.co.uk rank very highly in these metrics, and much higher than you'd think. iT From kim at holburn.net Mon Mar 29 14:56:42 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:56:42 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/29, at 1:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Of course, I wouldn't expect anything else from this list but > Murdoch bashing. ... > And if you read my comments, I haven't said anything in favour of > Murdoch. You see, I read your comments as being fairly extremely in favour of Murdoch. Accusing linkers of Murdoch bashing does that for me. > As for my comments, if you had read the, I have mentioned the BBC, > The Guardian and New York Times as well, and I wasn't aware these > were owned by Murdoch. The Guardian and NYT are UK and US papers. I'm not sure I'd consider them mass market any more than any national newspaper. IHT now I might consider. I have often wondered if IHT is not government funded though. How else does it get absolutely everywhere? > As for Chinese newspapers being mass market, you can argue they are > in their own country. I'm arguing on a global scale. As I said > earlier, they don't have huge readerships outside their own countries. There are very approx 70 Million people of Chinese origin living outside mainland China. I've seen the odd Indian around too. > Not that I've seen figures to indicate it, but I would be surprised > if readership for Chinese newspapers online goes anywhere near those > of, say, The Guardian, New York Times, BBC, Daily Telegraph and even > The Times and Sunday Times. I'd be surprised if most US or UK papers have anywhere near the circulation of Chinese papers. > As for Chinese newspaper etc making money, everything I've read on > issues on Chinese markets indicates the markets would not be huge. > Of course there are websites like Tencent (or something similar) > that have made their owners billions, but as many western companies > have found, it's entertainment that makes the money in China and > many Asian countries. Not news. What western companies make money on in China and what Chinese companies make money on in China are not the same things. Actually resources make money in China especially for us. > And of course Kim, you must know everything. Not at all, but I did live in China for a number of years. No need for ad hominem arguments. > And more than every mass market newspaper that has tried to make > money online from advertising, as I doubt there is one that has made > money. And you think this is about to change? Tell us what you really think. > But then you can go into discussions about how Chinese spend money, > that they like to save a greater percentage of their incomes than > almost all western countries and a range of other issues. > > I totally agree that "They don't need more money than the currently > get from online advertising, they need something like what they used > to get from print advertising which is considerably more." But your > comment has nothing to do with my comment you related it to. It wasn't clear to me what you were referring to. The BBC doesn't need to make money from its website does it? It probably has the largest reach of any media group. > And yes, we will see what happens. And if you read my comments, I > haven't said anything in favour of Murdoch. I beg to differ. > All I've done is comment on the idea of paywalls. What you have commented on is your perceived anti-Murdoch bias in this list. I'm not even sure what you think about paywalls. > I'm happy to discuss the merits or otherwise of Murdoch and his > media empire, Go on then. > but it's not what this discussion is about. I thought it was actually. Kim > > David > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 1:01:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/28, at 6:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: >> You seem to not >> realise that the 2 aforementioned papers only need a >> small >> percentage of their online readers to pay for access for them >> to >> be getting more money than they currently do from online >> >> advertising. > > They don't need more money than the currently get from >> online > advertising, they need something like what they used to get >> from print > advertising which is considerably more. > >> Just >> because millions of people read your newspapers online doesn't >> >> mean you earn much money from advertising. > > Then you're doing it >> wrong. > >> As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few people >> outside >> those countries will want to read them. The large mass >> market >> newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK and mass market papers >> in the US >> are global media outlets now. > > Perhaps you meant >> English newspapers. I would have thought a market > of 1.3 billion >> (or so) was a mass market. > > > What you seem to be saying is that the >> only mass market media is > Murdoch. So then the original >> statement : >> Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the >> first >> media firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for >> mass-market news >> online. > > May as well be : >> Times >> and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the first >> Murdoch >> news sites to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass- >> market news >> online. > > > > On 2010/Mar/28, at 9:37 PM, David Goldstein >> wrote: > >> Ivan and Karl, mention the large readership of Indian and >> Chinese >> newspapers. But they are not global players like several >> British or >> American news outlets. > > Yeah there are only >> Chinese people in ... every country in the world. > >> Plus the markets >> may be large but there is little money. > > Not true. > >> Hence why, >> as many people say, Google pulled out of China. They made >> very >> little money there and so their decision was very easy. > > You know they >> made little money there for sure? And that was the > reason they >> pulled out? > >> Newspapers such as The Guardian and New York Times are >> widely read >> throughout the world. >> >> And once people >> get over the anti-Murdoch sentiment that pervades >> this >> list, > > Compared to you we're probably all virulently >> anti-Murdoch. > >> people might have a reasonable debate on the pluses >> and minuses of >> paywalls for news content. At least the press in >> the UK has been >> debating this with interesting points for and >> against. > > Why do we have to debate it? The debate that really >> matters, as they > say, is the one which makes the money. We only >> have to wait a while > until we get to the "I told you so" >> bit. > >> >> David >> >> >> >> ----- Original >> Message ---- >>> From: Ivan Trundle <> ymailto="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com" >> href="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com">ivan at itrundle.com> >>> To: Link >> list <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Sun, 28 >> March, 2010 7:10:14 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On 28/03/2010, at 6:17 PM, David >> Goldstein wrote: >> >>> I suggest you >>> read the >> discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times in >>> >> greater >>> detail. >> >> I have: it's one of my favourite >> areas of interest. Might I >>> suggest that you come down off your high >> horse? >> >>> Sure every country >>> has some differences, >> and the BBC and ABC will benefit. But you >>> seem to fail >> to >>> understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money from >> licence >>> fee/government. >> >> No, I do >> not. >> >>> You seem to not realise that >>> the 2 >> aforementioned papers only need a small percentage of their >>> >> online readers >>> to pay for access for them to be getting more money >> than they >>> currently do from >>> online >> advertising. >> >> No, I do not. >> >>> Just because >> millions of >>> people read your newspapers online doesn't mean you earn >> much money >>> from >>> advertising. >> >> I >> was making no comparisons with advertising revenue and the >>> >> profitability of a news media outlet. >> >>> As for the Chinese and >> Indian >>> newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will want >> to read >>> them. >> >> So what? Their readership is large >> enough to warrant a different >>> outlook. >> >>> The large >> mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK >>> and mass market >> papers in the US are global media outlets now. >> >> >> They've >>> got a long way to go before they are truly global in >> news >>> presentation. And >>> whilst Murdoch might have >> a global presence, each market is >>> different. >> >> >> iT >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Link >>> mailing list >>> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> >> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >>> >> href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" >> target=_blank >>>>> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" >>>>> target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Link mailing >> list >>> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >>> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > -- > Kim >> Holburn > IT Network & Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408 M: >> +61 404072753 > mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> request > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From ivan at itrundle.com Mon Mar 29 15:57:44 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:57:44 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Terms and Conditions (was: Newspapers online) In-Reply-To: <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> Message-ID: <0C60A563-CB66-4825-A627-15674ADF4941@itrundle.com> I almost fell off my chair laughing: if the rumour that Murdoch has never used the internet is true, this accounts for it... Yup: a whole 13 pages of T&C (6,741 words)... The prohibition listing is 3 pages in itself. Obviously, Times Online readers are expected to be well-educated, and preferably lawyers (and who use a telephone line to download content, according to Section 23 on page 9). When you actually get around to signing up, all of your data is via a standard http connection (no SSL). The Times site asks for information that is more than is needed to browse a site (home address and country, phone number, DOB). Insidious postscript: one of the nasty side-effects of signing up to such a website is that your personal details are collected (fabricated or otherwise), as are your total site browsing habits. One of the joys of sites with no registration procedure is that the visitor is in control of what information is matched or divulged (IP addresses and cookies notwithstanding). ... And in browsing the endless comments about paywalls: here's a beauty... "readers 'should' pay ? when did you ever see a business plan built on the verb 'should'? iT From wavey_one at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 16:39:20 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> Message-ID: <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The Guardian makes it as a global paper as it gets more, or?very close to more,?of its readers outside of the the UK than in the UK. I doubt any non-English language newspapers would have such online readership. It's not really relevant as to whether a paywall will work or not though. And maybe a division of global mass market and national mass market would be relevant. Maybe you haven't noticed the trend for major quality non-English newspapers to have an online English version as well? This has grown in the last couple of years. It's the only way to get a global readership. Anyway, back to the topic at hand, do I think newspapers will make money from online advertising? Not a lot. It won't pay for the journalism. I can't see any other method on the horizon apart from paywalls. First The Times and Sunday Times. The New York Times has said it will follow. Le Monde is introducing one to parts of its newspaper. Once it gets to a critical mass of newspapers making their content only available to payers, then they will in all likelihood take off. The number of online readers will drop dramatically, but news outlets seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it,?about visitors who look at one page and disappear. They want readers to stay. So I'd guess The Times/Sunday Times are prepared to see a huge drop in casual readers and see regular and paying readers stay. What will happen? Who knows. But journalism has to be paid for and apart from the BBC and ABC who get their money from a licence fee/government, and The Guardian who can possibly sustain losses forever more,?the loss of print advertising income is not sustainable. As for my views of Murdoch. I can't actually see how they are relevant to the discussion here. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 2:56:42 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/29, at 1:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Of course, I > wouldn't expect anything else from this list but? > Murdoch > bashing. ... > And if you read my comments, I haven't said anything in > favour of? > Murdoch. You see, I read your comments as being > fairly extremely in favour of? Murdoch.? Accusing linkers of > Murdoch bashing does that for me. > As for my comments, if you had > read the, I have mentioned the BBC,? > The Guardian and New York > Times as well, and I wasn't aware these? > were owned by > Murdoch. The Guardian and NYT are UK and US papers.? I'm not sure > I'd consider? them mass market any more than any national newspaper. > IHT now I might? consider.? I have often wondered if IHT is not > government funded? though.? How else does it get absolutely > everywhere? > As for Chinese newspapers being mass market, you can > argue they are? > in their own country. I'm arguing on a global > scale. As I said? > earlier, they don't have huge readerships > outside their own countries. There are very approx 70 Million people of > Chinese origin living? outside mainland China.? I've seen the odd > Indian around too. > Not that I've seen figures to indicate it, but I > would be surprised? > if readership for Chinese newspapers online > goes anywhere near those? > of, say, The Guardian, New York Times, > BBC, Daily Telegraph and even? > The Times and Sunday > Times. I'd be surprised if most US or UK papers have anywhere near > the? circulation of Chinese papers. > As for Chinese > newspaper etc making money, everything I've read on? > issues on > Chinese markets indicates the markets would not be huge.? > Of > course there are websites like Tencent (or something similar)? > > that have made their owners billions, but as many western companies? > > have found, it's entertainment that makes the money in China and? > > many Asian countries. Not news. What western companies make > money on in China and what Chinese? companies make money on in China > are not the same things.? Actually? resources make money in China > especially for us. > And of course Kim, you must know > everything. Not at all, but I did live in China for a number of > years.? No need? for ad hominem arguments. > And more > than every mass market newspaper that has tried to make? > money > online from advertising, as I doubt there is one that has made? > > money. And you think this is about to change?? Tell us what you > really think. > But then you can go into discussions about how Chinese > spend money,? > that they like to save a greater percentage of their > incomes than? > almost all western countries and a range of other > issues. > > I totally agree that "They don't need more money than > the currently? > get from online advertising, they need something > like what they used? > to get from print advertising which is > considerably more." But your? > comment has nothing to do with my > comment you related it to. It wasn't clear to me what you were referring > to.? The BBC doesn't? need to make money from its website does > it?? It probably has the? largest reach of any media > group. > And yes, we will see what happens. And if you read my > comments, I? > haven't said anything in favour of Murdoch. I > beg to differ. > All I've done is comment on the idea of > paywalls. What you have commented on is your perceived anti-Murdoch bias > in this? list.? I'm not even sure what you think about > paywalls. > I'm happy to discuss the merits or otherwise of Murdoch > and his? > media empire, Go on then. > but it's not > what this discussion is about. I thought it was > actually. Kim > > David > > ----- Original > Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> To: Link list > <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> Sent: Mon, 29 > March, 2010 1:01:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers > online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/28, at 6:17 PM, David > Goldstein wrote: >> You seem to not >> realise that the 2 > aforementioned papers only need a >> small >> percentage of > their online readers to pay for access for them >> to >> be > getting more money than they currently do from online >> >> > advertising. > > They don't need more money than the currently get > from >> online > advertising, they need something like what they > used to get >> from print > advertising which is considerably > more. > >> Just >> because millions of people read your > newspapers online doesn't >> >> mean you earn much money from > advertising. > > Then you're doing it >> > wrong. > >> As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few > people >> outside >> those countries will want to read them. > The large mass >> market >> newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK > and mass market papers >> in the US >> are global media > outlets now. > > Perhaps you meant >> English > newspapers.? I would have thought a market > of 1.3 > billion >> (or so) was a mass market. > > > What you > seem to be saying is that the >> only mass market media is > > Murdoch.? So then the original >> statement : >> Times > and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the >> > first >> media firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for >> > mass-market news >> online. > > May as well be > : >> Times >> and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming > the first >> Murdoch >> news sites to test consumers' appetite > to pay for mass- >> market news >> > online. > > > > On 2010/Mar/28, at 9:37 PM, David > Goldstein >> wrote: > >> Ivan and Karl, mention the > large readership of Indian and >> Chinese >> newspapers. But > they are not global players like several >> British or >> > American news outlets. > > Yeah there are only >> Chinese > people in ... every country in the world. > >> Plus the > markets >> may be large but there is little money. > > Not > true. > >> Hence why, >> as many people say, Google > pulled out of China. They made >> very >> little money there > and so their decision was very easy. > > You know they >> > made little money there for sure?? And that was the > reason > they >> pulled out? > >> Newspapers such as The Guardian > and New York Times are >> widely read >> throughout the > world. >> >> And once people >> get over the > anti-Murdoch sentiment that pervades >> this >> > list, > > Compared to you we're probably all virulently >> > anti-Murdoch. > >> people might have a reasonable debate on the > pluses >> and minuses of >> paywalls for news content. At > least the press in >> the UK has been >> debating this with > interesting points for and >> against. > > Why do we have > to debate it?? The debate that really >> matters, as they > > say, is the one which makes the money.? We only >> have to wait a > while > until we get to the "I told you so" >> > bit. > >> >> > David >> >> >> >> ----- Original >> > Message ---- >>> From: Ivan Trundle <> ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com" > href="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com">ivan at itrundle.com" >> > href="mailto:> href="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com">ivan at itrundle.com">> ymailto="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com" > href="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com">ivan at itrundle.com> >>> To: > Link >> list <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Sun, > 28 >> March, 2010 7:10:14 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] > Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On > 28/03/2010, at 6:17 PM, David >> Goldstein > wrote: >> >>> I suggest you >>> read > the >> discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times > in >>> >> greater >>> > detail. >> >> I have: it's one of my favourite >> > areas of interest. Might I >>> suggest that you come down off your > high >> horse? >> >>> Sure every > country >>> has some differences, >> and the BBC and ABC > will benefit. But you >>> seem to fail >> > to >>> understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money > from >> licence >>> fee/government. >> >> > No, I do >> not. >> >>> You seem to not realise > that >>> the 2 >> aforementioned papers only need a small > percentage of their >>> >> online readers >>> > to pay for access for them to be getting more money >> than > they >>> currently do from >>> online >> > advertising. >> >> No, I do not. >> >>> > Just because >> millions of >>> people read your newspapers > online doesn't mean you earn >> much money >>> > from >>> advertising. >> >> I >> was > making no comparisons with advertising revenue and > the >>> >> profitability of a news media > outlet. >> >>> As for the Chinese and >> > Indian >>> newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will > want >> to read >>> them. >> >> So what? > Their readership is large >> enough to warrant a > different >>> outlook. >> >>> The > large >> mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK >>> > and mass market >> papers in the US are global media outlets > now. >> >> >> They've >>> got a long way > to go before they are truly global in >> news >>> > presentation. And >>> whilst Murdoch might have >> a global > presence, each market is >>> > different. >> >> >> iT >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Link >>> mailing list >>> href="mailto:> > ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" >> > href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">>? > >> ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" >> > href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >>> >> > href="> >> target=_blank >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" >> > target=_blank >>>>> href="> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link"? > >>>>> target=_blank >>> > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> Link > mailing >> list >>> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >>> > href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" > target=_blank >>> > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > -- > > Kim >> Holburn > IT Network & Security Consultant > T: > +61 2 61402408? M: >> +61 404072753 > mailto:> > href="mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> > aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> > request > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing > list >> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> > href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" > target=_blank >>> > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing > list > > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim > Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: > +61 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From kim at holburn.net Mon Mar 29 17:40:40 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:40:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > The Guardian makes it as a global paper as it gets more, or very > close to more, of its readers outside of the the UK than in the UK. > I doubt any non-English language newspapers would have such online > readership. > > It's not really relevant as to whether a paywall will work or not > though. And maybe a division of global mass market and national mass > market would be relevant. I'm not sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts. I guess on reading closely that your second paragraph is about the things you talk about in the first. Grammar hint: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : Paragraph: A passage in text that is about a different subject from the preceding text, marked by commencing on a new line.... > Maybe you haven't noticed the trend for major quality non-English > newspapers to have an online English version as well? This has grown > in the last couple of years. It's the only way to get a global > readership. There's an old joke: Q: What do you call someone who speaks 3 languages? A: trilingual. Q: What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: bilingual. Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 language? A: American (or Australian). Would you even know if there were a major global Chinese or Spanish or Russian news media company that had no English presence? > Anyway, back to the topic at hand, do I think newspapers will make > money from online advertising? Not a lot. It won't pay for the > journalism. I can't see any other method on the horizon apart from > paywalls. First The Times and Sunday Times. The New York Times has > said it will follow. Le Monde is introducing one to parts of its > newspaper. You're assuming that with a disruptive technology like the internet that the old media empires will transition just like they are to the new system. I really doubt it. There are already news sites that are working and even making money online. Sites that have never had nor will never have a print presence. > Once it gets to a critical mass of newspapers making their content > only available to payers, then they will in all likelihood take off. Good dream. You forget all the new online media that won't go down that path. Pay is going to find it hard to compete with free. > The number of online readers will drop dramatically, We agree on this. > but news outlets seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, about > visitors who look at one page and disappear. They want readers to > stay. > > So I'd guess The Times/Sunday Times are prepared to see a huge drop > in casual readers and see regular and paying readers stay. > > What will happen? Who knows. But journalism has to be paid for and > apart from the BBC and ABC who get their money from a licence fee/ > government, and The Guardian who can possibly sustain losses forever > more, the loss of print advertising income is not sustainable. The old "Journalism has to be paid for" argument. Except in traditional newspapers it's paid for by advertising. 55% (at least) of the actual articles are from company press releases. In big media companies they pass articles around between papers and buy stories from wire services. Not that much original content anyway. Mostly just bought or paid for content. People said the same thing about encyclopaedias, and look - there's one that doesn't have to pay for content, is free and is fast becoming, despite all the catches, the global standard source. The internet is infested with "blogs" that are effectively news sites. There is journalism aplenty. Try stopping it. Actually that's what old media (read Murdoch and others in Europe) are trying to do with their attacks on google and search sites and aggregators. Trying to stop all the non-corporate news from getting publicity and access. Expect lots more attacks on google. > As for my views of Murdoch. I can't actually see how they are > relevant to the discussion here. This discussion started with an article about an ongoing Murdoch push. You are the one who keeps on bringing him up and telling us that we are bashing him, so why don't you tell us what you think, what your interest in this is. Let us understand where you are coming from. I know it's easier to criticise others and then side-step and say we can't criticise you because you've never said what you think. Kim -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From wavey_one at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 18:33:02 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 00:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> Message-ID: <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It's my job/business to know what media is out there. As for the free websites, such as blogs, that provide "news". Well, there are very few of these who can afford to find investigative journalism, the little that happens now. There are none that, at the extreme, can afford offices in a diverse range of places like the New York Times or BBC. Decent journalism has to be paid for. And you seem to neglect that the vast majority of online news sites were originally offline. Or if not, they source their news from somewhere like Reuters, AP, AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites reflects this. As for Murdoch and the beginning of this thread, it began by your incorrect assertion that The Times and Sunday Times were not the first mass market newspapers to put up such a paywall. Which I corrected. As for my interest, just correcting the inaccuracies in one of several online?issues that I have followed for quite a while now. It could even have an impact on my business. If you want to start a discussion on journalism, even the quality of it in Australia, feel free and if it's interesting I'll contribute. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 5:40:40 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > The Guardian > makes it as a global paper as it gets more, or very? > close to > more, of its readers outside of the the UK than in the UK.? > I > doubt any non-English language newspapers would have such online? > > readership. > > It's not really relevant as to whether a paywall > will work or not? > though. And maybe a division of global mass > market and national mass? > market would be relevant. I'm not > sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts.? I guess? on > reading closely that your second paragraph is about the things you? > talk about in the first. Grammar hint: > href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank > >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : Paragraph: A passage in text > that is about a different subject from? the preceding text, marked by > commencing on a new line.... > Maybe you haven't noticed the trend for > major quality non-English? > newspapers to have an online English > version as well? This has grown? > in the last couple of years. It's > the only way to get a global? > readership. There's an old > joke: Q: What do you call someone who speaks 3 languages? A: > trilingual. Q: What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: > bilingual. Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 language?? A: > American (or? Australian). Would you even know if there were a > major global Chinese or Spanish or? Russian news media company that had > no English presence? > Anyway, back to the topic at hand, do I think > newspapers will make? > money from online advertising? Not a lot. It > won't pay for the? > journalism. I can't see any other method on the > horizon apart from? > paywalls. First The Times and Sunday Times. > The New York Times has? > said it will follow. Le Monde is > introducing one to parts of its? > newspaper. You're assuming > that with a disruptive technology like the internet? that the old media > empires will transition just like they are to the? new system.? I > really doubt it.? There are already news sites that are? working > and even making money online.? Sites that have never had nor? will > never have a print presence. > Once it gets to a critical mass of > newspapers making their content? > only available to payers, then > they will in all likelihood take off. Good dream.? You forget all > the new online media that won't go down? that path.? Pay is going > to find it hard to compete with free. > The number of online readers > will drop dramatically, We agree on this. > but news outlets > seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, about? > visitors who look at > one page and disappear. They want readers to? > > stay. > > So I'd guess The Times/Sunday Times are prepared to see a > huge drop? > in casual readers and see regular and paying readers > stay. > > What will happen? Who knows. But journalism has to be paid > for and? > apart from the BBC and ABC who get their money from a > licence fee/ > government, and The Guardian who can possibly sustain > losses forever? > more, the loss of print advertising income is not > sustainable. The old "Journalism has to be paid for" argument.? > Except in? traditional newspapers it's paid for by advertising.? > 55% (at least)? of the actual articles are from company press > releases.? In big media? companies they pass articles around > between papers and buy stories? from wire services.? Not that much > original content anyway.? Mostly? just bought or paid for > content. People said the same thing about encyclopaedias, and look - > there's? one that doesn't have to pay for content, is free and is > fast? becoming, despite all the catches, the global standard > source. The internet is infested with "blogs" that are effectively > news? sites.? There is journalism aplenty.? Try stopping > it.? Actually? that's what old media (read Murdoch and others in > Europe) are trying? to do with their attacks on google and search sites > and aggregators.? Trying to stop all the non-corporate news from > getting publicity and? access.? Expect lots more attacks on > google. > As for my views of Murdoch. I can't actually see how they > are? > relevant to the discussion here. This discussion > started with an article about an ongoing Murdoch? push.? You are > the one who keeps on bringing him up and telling us? that we are > bashing him, so why don't you tell us what you think, what? your > interest in this is.? Let us understand where you are coming? > from.? I know it's easier to criticise others and then side-step > and? say we can't criticise you because you've never said what you > think. Kim -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security > Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: +61 404072753 mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From kim at holburn.net Mon Mar 29 19:49:20 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:49:20 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/29, at 6:33 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > It's my job/business to know what media is out there. > > As for the free websites, such as blogs, that provide "news". Well, > there are very few of these who can afford to find investigative > journalism, the little that happens now. There are none that, at the > extreme, can afford offices in a diverse range of places like the > New York Times or BBC. The news doesn't have to end up like current news organisations. It doesn't have to be concentrated organisations like we have today that do it all. Lots of things just fall off the news radar. As news online changes there may be one person reporting on one issue here, another there. There may be reporters who are expert in their own narrow fields. People reporting on areas that are simply not covered by MSM. There are news aggregators that are entirely different organisations. Several different aggregators aggregating different news in different ways. People read news online very differently, I know I do. I have interests that don't match the interests of most newspapers. I can tailor aggregators to get personalised news. I remember a discussion years ago about newsagents. We are moving towards that although I think the original idea is somewhat like artificial intelligence - we won't see it as envisaged for a long time. If news sites opt out of the web *conversation* they will lose out. > Decent journalism has to be paid for. You keep saying that but journalism may end up looking completely different on the web and the business model will probably be different too. It doesn't have to be anything like it used to be. If you concentrate all that movement into one organisation you have a different kind of access to advertising. Advertising itself on the web is being aggregated by advertising aggregators (perhaps like google). > And you seem to neglect that the vast majority of online news sites > were originally offline. No I didn't forget that. Many of those sites tried paywalls too. > Or if not, they source their news from somewhere like Reuters, AP, > AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites reflects this. I did in fact mention this in my last email. > As for Murdoch and the beginning of this thread, it began by your > incorrect assertion that The Times and Sunday Times were not the > first mass market newspapers to put up such a paywall. The NYT has already had a paywall and ditched it so no, the Times and the Sunday Times were not the first according to your criteria. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 Times to Stop Charging for Parts of Its Web Site By RICHARD P?REZ-PE?A Published: September 18, 2007 The New York Times will stop charging for access to parts of its Web site, effective at midnight tonight. Skip to next paragraph Related A Letter to Readers About TimesSelect What the Blogs are Saying The move comes two years to the day after The Times began the subscription program, TimesSelect, which has charged $49.95 a year, or $7.95 a month, for online access to the work of its columnists and to the newspaper?s archives. TimesSelect has been free to print subscribers to The Times and to some students and educators. > Which I corrected. Which you gave your opinion. One with which I do not happen to agree. > As for my interest, just correcting the inaccuracies in one of > several online issues that I have followed for quite a while now. It > could even have an impact on my business. > > If you want to start a discussion on journalism, even the quality of > it in Australia, feel free and if it's interesting I'll contribute. You go first. > > David > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 5:40:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> The Guardian >> makes it as a global paper as it gets more, or very >> close to >> more, of its readers outside of the the UK than in the UK. >> I >> doubt any non-English language newspapers would have such online >> >> readership. >> >> It's not really relevant as to whether a paywall >> will work or not >> though. And maybe a division of global mass >> market and national mass >> market would be relevant. > > I'm not >> sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts. I guess > on >> reading closely that your second paragraph is about the things you >> > talk about in the first. > > Grammar hint: >> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank >>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : > Paragraph: A passage in text >> that is about a different subject from > the preceding text, marked by >> commencing on a new line.... > >> Maybe you haven't noticed the trend for >> major quality non-English >> newspapers to have an online English >> version as well? This has grown >> in the last couple of years. It's >> the only way to get a global >> readership. > > There's an old >> joke: > Q: What do you call someone who speaks 3 languages? A: >> trilingual. > Q: What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: >> bilingual. > Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 language? A: >> American (or > Australian). > > Would you even know if there were a >> major global Chinese or Spanish or > Russian news media company that had >> no English presence? > >> Anyway, back to the topic at hand, do I think >> newspapers will make >> money from online advertising? Not a lot. It >> won't pay for the >> journalism. I can't see any other method on the >> horizon apart from >> paywalls. First The Times and Sunday Times. >> The New York Times has >> said it will follow. Le Monde is >> introducing one to parts of its >> newspaper. > > You're assuming >> that with a disruptive technology like the internet > that the old media >> empires will transition just like they are to the > new system. I >> really doubt it. There are already news sites that are > working >> and even making money online. Sites that have never had nor > will >> never have a print presence. > >> Once it gets to a critical mass of >> newspapers making their content >> only available to payers, then >> they will in all likelihood take off. > > Good dream. You forget all >> the new online media that won't go down > that path. Pay is going >> to find it hard to compete with free. > >> The number of online readers >> will drop dramatically, > > We agree on this. > >> but news outlets >> seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, about >> visitors who look at >> one page and disappear. They want readers to >> >> stay. >> >> So I'd guess The Times/Sunday Times are prepared to see a >> huge drop >> in casual readers and see regular and paying readers >> stay. >> >> What will happen? Who knows. But journalism has to be paid >> for and >> apart from the BBC and ABC who get their money from a >> licence fee/ >> government, and The Guardian who can possibly sustain >> losses forever >> more, the loss of print advertising income is not >> sustainable. > > The old "Journalism has to be paid for" argument. >> Except in > traditional newspapers it's paid for by advertising. >> 55% (at least) > of the actual articles are from company press >> releases. In big media > companies they pass articles around >> between papers and buy stories > from wire services. Not that much >> original content anyway. Mostly > just bought or paid for >> content. > > People said the same thing about encyclopaedias, and look - >> there's > one that doesn't have to pay for content, is free and is >> fast > becoming, despite all the catches, the global standard >> source. > > The internet is infested with "blogs" that are effectively >> news > sites. There is journalism aplenty. Try stopping >> it. Actually > that's what old media (read Murdoch and others in >> Europe) are trying > to do with their attacks on google and search sites >> and aggregators. > Trying to stop all the non-corporate news from >> getting publicity and > access. Expect lots more attacks on >> google. > >> As for my views of Murdoch. I can't actually see how they >> are >> relevant to the discussion here. > > This discussion >> started with an article about an ongoing Murdoch > push. You are >> the one who keeps on bringing him up and telling us > that we are >> bashing him, so why don't you tell us what you think, what > your >> interest in this is. Let us understand where you are coming >> > from. I know it's easier to criticise others and then side-step >> and > say we can't criticise you because you've never said what you >> think. > > Kim > > -- > Kim Holburn > IT Network & Security >> Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 > mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> request > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From ivan at itrundle.com Mon Mar 29 19:54:56 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:54:56 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <34FCFA0A-3C7C-496A-AF3A-E2E86C47BBB6@itrundle.com> On 29/03/2010, at 6:33 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > And you seem to neglect that the vast majority of online news sites were originally offline. Or if not, they source their news from somewhere like Reuters, AP, AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites reflects this. Alexa is not the best place to find world data on 'top-20' websites: the metrics that it uses are heavily skewed towards English-speaking countries. There's scant information on activities in places like the Eastern Bloc countries, and China, and most non-English-speaking countries. -- Ivan Trundle http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742 skype: callto://ivanovitchk From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Mon Mar 29 20:35:03 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:35:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Filter: Tonight Conroy to debate EFA, Lumby, Newton In-Reply-To: <803B5235-E72D-4A52-AB29-5C854D85758D@stilgherrian.com> References: <803B5235-E72D-4A52-AB29-5C854D85758D@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <4BB07447.7070201@hunterlink.net.au> On 29/03/2010 1:13 PM, Stilgherrian wrote: > Tonight at 6pm AEDT on ABC Radio National's "Australia Talks", > presenter Paul Barclay chairs a discussion between Senator Stephen > Conroy, vociferous filter critic network engineer Internode's Mark > Newton, Electronic Frontiers Australia vice president Colin Jacobs, > UNSW journalism professor Catharine Lumby, and Michael Grace, regional > chief for internet filtering company Netsweeper. > > http://delimiter.com.au/2010/03/29/filter-conroy-to-debate-efa-newton-tonight/ > > ... Following a link on that page: . > The US State Department has told The Punch its officials have raised > concerns about the filter with Australian counterparts, as America > mounts a new diplomatic assault on internet censorship by governments > worldwide. There's at least one positive to our government's depraved behaviour: it's exposed a need for US-style constitutional protections. In fact, given that we've evidently degraded to a level below the US, we need protection for freedom of expression and access to information that's even more robust than the US. The debate is available at . -- David Boxall | All that is required | for evil to prevail is http://david.boxall.id.au | for good men to do nothing. | -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) From wavey_one at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 21:48:25 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 03:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> Message-ID: <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The problem with your view of the future of news is verifying the source of the news. There's good evidence that there will even be more unsubstantiated news than there is now. As for the way you view news online, well, that's one way. There are a?number of ways. And the introduction of the Times/Sunday Times paywall is possibly Murdoch attempting to protect his print empire, or part of the reason. And he's not interested in people like you viewing his websites since you view only one page and then disappear. So media outlets, not just News,?want more committed viewers. On the NYT paywall, Times Select, I've already noted it was the opinion columnists who defeated that since they were not happy since very few were reading their columns. But they've probably learnt lessons from last time. Maybe not too. And yes Ivan, I agree that Alexa is not perfect. It's?rankings are?also skewed to people interested in media or technology. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 7:49:20 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/29, at 6:33 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > It's my > job/business to know what media is out there. > > As for the free > websites, such as blogs, that provide "news". Well,? > there are > very few of these who can afford to find investigative? > > journalism, the little that happens now. There are none that, at the? > > extreme, can afford offices in a diverse range of places like the? > > New York Times or BBC. The news doesn't have to end up like > current news organisations.? It? doesn't have to be concentrated > organisations like we have today that? do it all.? Lots of things > just fall off the news radar.? As news? online changes there may > be one person reporting on one issue here,? another there.? There > may be reporters who are expert in their own? narrow fields.? > People reporting on areas that are simply not covered? by MSM.? > There are news aggregators that are entirely different? > organisations.? Several different aggregators aggregating > different? news in different ways. People read news online very > differently, I know I do.? I have? interests that don't match the > interests of most newspapers.? I can? tailor aggregators to get > personalised news.? I remember a discussion? years ago about > newsagents.? We are moving towards that although I? think the > original idea is somewhat like artificial intelligence - we? won't see > it as envisaged for a long time.? If news sites opt out of? the > web *conversation* they will lose out. > Decent journalism has to be > paid for. You keep saying that but journalism may end up looking > completely? different on the web and the business model will probably > be different? too.? It doesn't have to be anything like it used to > be.? If you? concentrate all that movement into one organisation > you have a? different kind of access to advertising.? Advertising > itself on the? web is being aggregated by advertising aggregators > (perhaps like? google). > And you seem to neglect that the > vast majority of online news sites? > were originally > offline. No I didn't forget that.? Many of those sites tried > paywalls too. > Or if not, they source their news from somewhere like > Reuters, AP,? > AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites > reflects this. I did in fact mention this in my last email. > > As for Murdoch and the beginning of this thread, it began by your? > > incorrect assertion that The Times and Sunday Times were not the? > > first mass market newspapers to put up such a paywall. The NYT has > already had a paywall and ditched it so no, the Times and? the Sunday > Times were not the first according to your criteria. > href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" > target=_blank > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 Times > to Stop Charging for Parts of Its Web Site By RICHARD > P?REZ-PE?A Published: September 18, 2007 The New York Times will stop > charging for access to parts of its Web? site, effective at midnight > tonight. Skip to next paragraph Related A Letter to Readers About > TimesSelect What the Blogs are Saying The move comes two years to the day > after The Times began the? subscription program, TimesSelect, which has > charged $49.95 a year, or? $7.95 a month, for online access to the work > of its columnists and to? the newspaper?s archives. TimesSelect has > been free to print? subscribers to The Times and to some students and > educators. > Which I corrected. Which you gave your > opinion.? One with which I do not happen to agree. > As for my > interest, just correcting the inaccuracies in one of? > several > online issues that I have followed for quite a while now. It? > > could even have an impact on my business. > > If you want to start a > discussion on journalism, even the quality of? > it in Australia, > feel free and if it's interesting I'll contribute. You go > first. > > David > > > ----- Original Message > ---- >> From: Kim Holburn <> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> To: Link list > <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> Sent: Mon, 29 > March, 2010 5:40:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers > online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David > Goldstein wrote: > >> The Guardian >> makes it as a > global paper as it gets more, or very >> close to >> more, of > its readers outside of the the UK than in the UK. >> I >> > doubt any non-English language newspapers would have such > online >> >> readership. >> >> It's not > really relevant as to whether a paywall >> will work or not >> > though. And maybe a division of global mass >> market and national > mass >> market would be relevant. > > I'm not >> > sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts.? I guess > > on >> reading closely that your second paragraph is about the things > you >> > talk about in the first. > > Grammar > hint: >> href="> target=_blank >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" > target=_blank >>> > target=_blank >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : > Paragraph: > A passage in text >> that is about a different subject from > the > preceding text, marked by >> commencing on a new > line.... > >> Maybe you haven't noticed the trend for >> > major quality non-English >> newspapers to have an online > English >> version as well? This has grown >> in the last > couple of years. It's >> the only way to get a global >> > readership. > > There's an old >> joke: > Q: What do > you call someone who speaks 3 languages? A: >> trilingual. > Q: > What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: >> > bilingual. > Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 language?? > A: >> American (or > Australian). > > Would you even > know if there were a >> major global Chinese or Spanish or > > Russian news media company that had >> no English > presence? > >> Anyway, back to the topic at hand, do I > think >> newspapers will make >> money from online > advertising? Not a lot. It >> won't pay for the >> journalism. > I can't see any other method on the >> horizon apart from >> > paywalls. First The Times and Sunday Times. >> The New York Times > has >> said it will follow. Le Monde is >> introducing one to > parts of its >> newspaper. > > You're assuming >> > that with a disruptive technology like the internet > that the old > media >> empires will transition just like they are to the > new > system.? I >> really doubt it.? There are already news sites > that are > working >> and even making money online.? Sites > that have never had nor > will >> never have a print > presence. > >> Once it gets to a critical mass of >> > newspapers making their content >> only available to payers, > then >> they will in all likelihood take off. > > Good > dream.? You forget all >> the new online media that won't go > down > that path.? Pay is going >> to find it hard to > compete with free. > >> The number of online readers >> > will drop dramatically, > > We agree on this. > >> > but news outlets >> seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, > about >> visitors who look at >> one page and disappear. They > want readers to >> >> stay. >> >> So I'd > guess The Times/Sunday Times are prepared to see a >> huge > drop >> in casual readers and see regular and paying > readers >> stay. >> >> What will happen? Who knows. > But journalism has to be paid >> for and >> apart from the BBC > and ABC who get their money from a >> licence fee/ >> > government, and The Guardian who can possibly sustain >> losses > forever >> more, the loss of print advertising income is > not >> sustainable. > > The old "Journalism has to be paid > for" argument. >> Except in > traditional newspapers it's paid > for by advertising. >> 55% (at least) > of the actual articles > are from company press >> releases.? In big media > > companies they pass articles around >> between papers and buy > stories > from wire services.? Not that much >> original > content anyway.? Mostly > just bought or paid for >> > content. > > People said the same thing about encyclopaedias, and > look - >> there's > one that doesn't have to pay for content, is > free and is >> fast > becoming, despite all the catches, the > global standard >> source. > > The internet is infested > with "blogs" that are effectively >> news > sites.? There is > journalism aplenty.? Try stopping >> it.? Actually > > that's what old media (read Murdoch and others in >> Europe) are > trying > to do with their attacks on google and search sites >> > and aggregators. > Trying to stop all the non-corporate news > from >> getting publicity and > access.? Expect lots more > attacks on >> google. > >> As for my views of Murdoch. I > can't actually see how they >> are >> relevant to the > discussion here. > > This discussion >> started with an > article about an ongoing Murdoch > push.? You are >> the one > who keeps on bringing him up and telling us > that we are >> > bashing him, so why don't you tell us what you think, what > > your >> interest in this is.? Let us understand where you are > coming >> > from.? I know it's easier to criticise others > and then side-step >> and > say we can't criticise you because > you've never said what you >> think. > > > Kim > > -- > Kim Holburn > IT Network & > Security >> Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408? M: +61 > 404072753 > mailto:> ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> > aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> > request > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing > list >> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> > href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" > target=_blank >>> > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing > list > > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim > Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: +61 > 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From kim at holburn.net Mon Mar 29 22:26:31 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:26:31 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2010/Mar/29, at 9:48 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > The problem with your view of the future of news is verifying the > source of the news. I have that problem now with the mainstream media. I have always had it. It gets slightly worse after watching Mediawatch. If you don't believe in the news the big news organisations tell you then none of that verifying stuff makes much difference. We clearly look at the world very differently. I agree to differ with your view of these things. > There's good evidence that there will even be more unsubstantiated > news than there is now. There will be more news and so according to Sturgeon's law there will be more crud in at least the same ratio. > As for the way you view news online, well, that's one way. There are > a number of ways. > > And the introduction of the Times/Sunday Times paywall is possibly > Murdoch attempting to protect his print empire, or part of the > reason. And he's not interested in people like you viewing his > websites since you view only one page and then disappear. Isn't that better than not viewing that page? Perhaps not. My fear for the future is that everywhere will become like Adelaide - only shoddy Murdoch run tabloids or newspapers of similar quality. Oh wait, it's happening already, aaaargh!!!! And before you accuse me of Murdoch bashing, have you spent much time in Adelaide and read the newspapers there? > So media outlets, not just News, want more committed viewers. And their answer is to try and lock people into their site and only their site. Good luck with that. > On the NYT paywall, Times Select, I've already noted it was the > opinion columnists who defeated that since they were not happy since > very few were reading their columns. But they've probably learnt > lessons from last time. Maybe not too. They could study the news sites that use a paywall successfully.... Hmmm... they probably are. Still, like I said, if they're not part of the conversation and collaboration on the web they are not going to get much interest. > And yes Ivan, I agree that Alexa is not perfect. It's rankings are > also skewed to people interested in media or technology. > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 7:49:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/29, at 6:33 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> It's my >> job/business to know what media is out there. >> >> As for the free >> websites, such as blogs, that provide "news". Well, >> there are >> very few of these who can afford to find investigative >> >> journalism, the little that happens now. There are none that, at the >> >> extreme, can afford offices in a diverse range of places like the >> >> New York Times or BBC. > > The news doesn't have to end up like >> current news organisations. It > doesn't have to be concentrated >> organisations like we have today that > do it all. Lots of things >> just fall off the news radar. As news > online changes there may >> be one person reporting on one issue here, > another there. There >> may be reporters who are expert in their own > narrow fields. >> People reporting on areas that are simply not covered > by MSM. >> There are news aggregators that are entirely different >> > organisations. Several different aggregators aggregating >> different > news in different ways. > > People read news online very >> differently, I know I do. I have > interests that don't match the >> interests of most newspapers. I can > tailor aggregators to get >> personalised news. I remember a discussion > years ago about >> newsagents. We are moving towards that although I > think the >> original idea is somewhat like artificial intelligence - we > won't see >> it as envisaged for a long time. If news sites opt out of > the >> web *conversation* they will lose out. > >> Decent journalism has to be >> paid for. > > You keep saying that but journalism may end up looking >> completely > different on the web and the business model will probably >> be different > too. It doesn't have to be anything like it used to >> be. If you > concentrate all that movement into one organisation >> you have a > different kind of access to advertising. Advertising >> itself on the > web is being aggregated by advertising aggregators >> (perhaps like > google). > >> And you seem to neglect that the >> vast majority of online news sites >> were originally >> offline. > > No I didn't forget that. Many of those sites tried >> paywalls too. > >> Or if not, they source their news from somewhere like >> Reuters, AP, >> AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites >> reflects this. > > I did in fact mention this in my last email. > >> >> As for Murdoch and the beginning of this thread, it began by your >> >> incorrect assertion that The Times and Sunday Times were not the >> >> first mass market newspapers to put up such a paywall. > > The NYT has >> already had a paywall and ditched it so no, the Times and > the Sunday >> Times were not the first according to your criteria. > >> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >> " >> target=_blank >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 > Times >> to Stop Charging for Parts of Its Web Site > By RICHARD >> P?REZ-PE?A > Published: September 18, 2007 > The New York Times will stop >> charging for access to parts of its Web > site, effective at midnight >> tonight. > > Skip to next paragraph > Related A Letter to Readers About >> TimesSelect What the Blogs are Saying > The move comes two years to the day >> after The Times began the > subscription program, TimesSelect, which has >> charged $49.95 a year, or > $7.95 a month, for online access to the work >> of its columnists and to > the newspaper?s archives. TimesSelect has >> been free to print > subscribers to The Times and to some students and >> educators. > >> Which I corrected. > > Which you gave your >> opinion. One with which I do not happen to agree. > >> As for my >> interest, just correcting the inaccuracies in one of >> several >> online issues that I have followed for quite a while now. It >> >> could even have an impact on my business. >> >> If you want to start a >> discussion on journalism, even the quality of >> it in Australia, >> feel free and if it's interesting I'll contribute. > > You go >> first. > >> >> David >> >> >> ----- Original Message >> ---- >>> From: Kim Holburn <> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>> To: Link list >> <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Mon, 29 >> March, 2010 5:40:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David >> Goldstein wrote: >> >>> The Guardian >>> makes it as a >> global paper as it gets more, or very >>> close to >>> more, of >> its readers outside of the the UK than in the UK. >>> I >>> >> doubt any non-English language newspapers would have such >> online >>> >>> readership. >>> >>> It's not >> really relevant as to whether a paywall >>> will work or not >>> >> though. And maybe a division of global mass >>> market and national >> mass >>> market would be relevant. >> >> I'm not >>> >> sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts. I guess >> >> on >>> reading closely that your second paragraph is about the things >> you >>> >> talk about in the first. >> >> Grammar >> hint: >>> href="> target=_blank >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" >> target=_blank >>>>> target=_blank >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : >> Paragraph: >> A passage in text >>> that is about a different subject from >> the >> preceding text, marked by >>> commencing on a new >> line.... >> >>> Maybe you haven't noticed the trend for >>> >> major quality non-English >>> newspapers to have an online >> English >>> version as well? This has grown >>> in the last >> couple of years. It's >>> the only way to get a global >>> >> readership. >> >> There's an old >>> joke: >> Q: What do >> you call someone who speaks 3 languages? A: >>> trilingual. >> Q: >> What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: >>> >> bilingual. >> Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 language? >> A: >>> American (or >> Australian). >> >> Would you even >> know if there were a >>> major global Chinese or Spanish or >> >> Russian news media company that had >>> no English >> presence? >> >>> Anyway, back to the topic at hand, do I >> think >>> newspapers will make >>> money from online >> advertising? Not a lot. It >>> won't pay for the >>> journalism. >> I can't see any other method on the >>> horizon apart from >>> >> paywalls. First The Times and Sunday Times. >>> The New York Times >> has >>> said it will follow. Le Monde is >>> introducing one to >> parts of its >>> newspaper. >> >> You're assuming >>> >> that with a disruptive technology like the internet >> that the old >> media >>> empires will transition just like they are to the >> new >> system. I >>> really doubt it. There are already news sites >> that are >> working >>> and even making money online. Sites >> that have never had nor >> will >>> never have a print >> presence. >> >>> Once it gets to a critical mass of >>> >> newspapers making their content >>> only available to payers, >> then >>> they will in all likelihood take off. >> >> Good >> dream. You forget all >>> the new online media that won't go >> down >> that path. Pay is going >>> to find it hard to >> compete with free. >> >>> The number of online readers >>> >> will drop dramatically, >> >> We agree on this. >> >>> >> but news outlets >>> seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, >> about >>> visitors who look at >>> one page and disappear. They >> want readers to >>> >>> stay. >>> >>> So I'd >> guess The Times/Sunday Times are prepared to see a >>> huge >> drop >>> in casual readers and see regular and paying >> readers >>> stay. >>> >>> What will happen? Who knows. >> But journalism has to be paid >>> for and >>> apart from the BBC >> and ABC who get their money from a >>> licence fee/ >>> >> government, and The Guardian who can possibly sustain >>> losses >> forever >>> more, the loss of print advertising income is >> not >>> sustainable. >> >> The old "Journalism has to be paid >> for" argument. >>> Except in >> traditional newspapers it's paid >> for by advertising. >>> 55% (at least) >> of the actual articles >> are from company press >>> releases. In big media >> >> companies they pass articles around >>> between papers and buy >> stories >> from wire services. Not that much >>> original >> content anyway. Mostly >> just bought or paid for >>> >> content. >> >> People said the same thing about encyclopaedias, and >> look - >>> there's >> one that doesn't have to pay for content, is >> free and is >>> fast >> becoming, despite all the catches, the >> global standard >>> source. >> >> The internet is infested >> with "blogs" that are effectively >>> news >> sites. There is >> journalism aplenty. Try stopping >>> it. Actually >> >> that's what old media (read Murdoch and others in >>> Europe) are >> trying >> to do with their attacks on google and search sites >>> >> and aggregators. >> Trying to stop all the non-corporate news >> from >>> getting publicity and >> access. Expect lots more >> attacks on >>> google. >> >>> As for my views of Murdoch. I >> can't actually see how they >>> are >>> relevant to the >> discussion here. >> >> This discussion >>> started with an >> article about an ongoing Murdoch >> push. You are >>> the one >> who keeps on bringing him up and telling us >> that we are >>> >> bashing him, so why don't you tell us what you think, what >> >> your >>> interest in this is. Let us understand where you are >> coming >>> >> from. I know it's easier to criticise others >> and then side-step >>> and >> say we can't criticise you because >> you've never said what you >>> think. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From marty at supine.com Mon Mar 29 23:14:58 2010 From: marty at supine.com (Martin Barry) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:14:58 +0200 Subject: [LINK] China's Great Firewall spreads overseas In-Reply-To: <5A7FDA19-9CAD-47FF-AEF1-48B7580516BF@holburn.net> References: <5A7FDA19-9CAD-47FF-AEF1-48B7580516BF@holburn.net> Message-ID: <20100329121457.GA19219@merboo.mamista.net> $quoted_author = "Kim Holburn" ; > > Censorship can leak out of censored countries and affect people outside: > > http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/032510-chinas-great-firewall-spreads.html > > > Security experts are not sure exactly how this happened, but it Actually, they have a pretty good theory. The Internet connectivity used by the cluster was being tampered with by Chinese authorities. > > server, based in China. That server, operated out of China by > > Swedish service provider Netnod, returned DNS information intended > > for Chinese users, effectively spreading China's network censorship > > overseas. This is not correct. The cluster itself did not do anything wrong or different. There appears to be have been a man-in-the-middle attack, with spurious responses being sent in addition to the actual response from the cluster. > > Researchers have long known that China has changed DNS routing > > information to redirect users of censored services to government-run > > servers instead of sites such as Facebook and Twitter. But this is > > the first public disclosure that those routes have leaked outside > > of China, according to Rodney Joffe, a senior technologist with DNS > > services company Neustar. "All of a sudden, the consequences are > > that people outside China may be subverted or redirected to servers > > inside China," he said. These are the limitations of BGP. There is only so much you can do to stop routes leaking beyond the intended scope. You are reliant on third parties doing the right thing. > > The ISP that used the bad routes probably misconfigured its BGP > > (Border Gateway Protocol) system, used to route information on the > > Internet, according to Danny McPherson, chief security officer with > > Arbor Networks. "I don't think it was done intentionally, " he > > said. "This is an example of how easy it is for this information to > > be contaminated or corrupted or leaked out beyond the boundaries of > > what it was supposed to be." Actually, the issue was likely to be closer to the source. Anycast DNS clusters that are supposed to be limited in scope usually advertise their routes with "no export". If a neighbour ignores that it's unlikely there is much a remote ISP can do to prevent that causing harm. cheers Marty From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 30 07:17:29 2010 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (Richard Chirgwin) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:17:29 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BB10AD9.6070907@ozemail.com.au> (Hopefully avoiding flamewars and returning to the original thread ...) Perhaps because the newspapers themselves are responsible for most of the reporting on how newspapers are bleeding money, we often forget that the media - both print and TV - are very heavily debt-burdened. As a result, a loss of circulation (or viewers) is a triple-whammy. With loss of readers, there's a resulting decline in advertising income; because of high D-E ratios, the company is less able to pour money into reversing the decline; and as the debts become a bigger proportion of total income, other things (like journalism) get cut. News Corporation's D-E is reported as 63% (http://investor.newscorp.com/financials-keyratios.cfm) which leaves it little wriggle room. I can't see the paywall being a great success, but maybe I'm biased; I do pay for newspapers, I prefer to read them in print rather than online (why subject myself to T&Cs and contracts just to read the news?), and I haven't bought a News Corp property in a long time. RC (As for being Murdoch-knockers, Australians have a perfect right to be. We've put up with him longer than anyone else in the world!) David Goldstein wrote: > A definition of mass market is "A product that is designed for the mass market is intended to be bought by as many people as possible, not just by people with a lot of money or a special interest". > > Therefore this means The Times and Sunday Times are the first mass market newspapers to put up paywalls for all their content. After all, others such as the New York Times did for parts of the newspaper. But their opinion writers complained that very few people were reading their articles. So Times Select is a poor example and it wasn't to do with declines in advertising revenue. > > The article refers to does not include any mass market newspapers. > > As for a survey asking if people will subscribe, well, you don't have to be very bright to find that people won't pay if they are given the choice. > > Successful newspapers with paywalls aren't mass market newspapers. Examples many would have heard of are the WSJ and FT. As for the AFR - does anyone know if they are successful? > > Elsewhere in the world newspapers are bleeding money. Even those dedicated to being free have problems. The Guardian is one, but they are bleeding money. But they are lucky and they can probably lose money forever more and could benefit from paywalls on most newspapers and possibly become the world's biggest online newspaper. > > It will be interesting to see how The Times/Sunday Times proposal pans out. They need very few readers to pay to get more money than they now get from advertising. > > David > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Sat, 27 March, 2010 10:25:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> >> > On 2010/Mar/27, at 4:06 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > > >> The article >> said "becoming the first media firm to test consumers' >> appetite >> to pay for mass-market news online." Note the words "mass- >> >> market". >> > > What does it mean to you, "mass-market"? > > In this article > >> there's a chart of 27 newspapers who put up a paywall: >> > > >> href="http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2010/01/only-24-subscribe-at-newspaper-pay.html" >> target=_blank >> >>> http://newsosaur.blogspot.com/2010/01/only-24-subscribe-at-newspaper-pay.html >>> >> Only 2.4% subscribe at newspaper pay sites >> A puny 2.4% of print >> subscribers is the average number of people >> paying for online >> content at the handful of daily newspapers that >> have been bold >> enough to erect pay walls, according to a new survey. >> >> In the >> first comprehensive study of actual consumer willingness to >> pay >> for online news, ITZ/Belden Interactive delivered both good and >> >> bad tidings to publishers hoping to begin charging for their >> content. >> >> > > The real problem is that printed newspapers are funded > >> by advertising, >> > not the token fee or subscription. The internet > >> does classifieds >> > better than newspapers ever could. > > >> href="http://blog.wakefly.com/bid/11478/Online-Newspaper-Pay-Walls-Online-Newspapers-Fail-to-Monetize" >> target=_blank >> >>> http://blog.wakefly.com/bid/11478/Online-Newspaper-Pay-Walls-Online-Newspapers-Fail-to-Monetize >>> > > >> First, the New York Times failed with Times Select. Now, the same >> >> fate has befallen Newsday's pay wall: >> >> In late October, Newsday, >> the Long Island daily that the Dolans >> bought for $650 million, >> put its web site, newsday.com, behind a pay >> wall. The paper was >> one of the first non-business newspapers to take >> the plunge by >> putting up a pay wall, so in media circles it has been >> followed >> with interest. Could its fate be a sign of what others, >> including >> The New York Times, might expect? >> >> So, three months later, how >> many people have signed up to pay $5 a >> week, or $260 a year, to >> get unfettered access to newsday.com? >> >> The answer: 35 people. As >> in fewer than three dozen. As in a decent- >> sized elementary-school >> class. >> >> Times Select had readers pay $50 a year to read the >> newspaper's >> columnists as well as have access to the full, >> historical archives >> and other premium material. After drawing >> 221,000 subscribers, the >> newspaper pulled the initiative because >> advertising revenue >> declined. Newsday took it one step further >> and charged for all >> website access (except for print >> subscribers). Both did not succeed. >> > > > > And yet there are also > >> successful examples of online newspapers with >> >> > paywalls. > > >> David >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> >>> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >>> >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> >>> To: Link list >>> >> <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> >>> Sent: Sat, 27 >>> >> March, 2010 2:56:28 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >>> >> online >> >>> I got to the first paragraph and it was not >>> >> actually true. >> >> On >> >>> 2010/Mar/27, at 12:26 PM, > >>> >> href="mailto:> href="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au">stephen at melbpc.org.au">> ymailto="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au" >> href="mailto:stephen at melbpc.org.au">stephen at melbpc.org.au >> >>> >>> >> wrote: >> >> >>> News Corp to charge for UK Times online >>> >> from June >> >>> by Georgina >>> Prodhan, London, Fri >>> >> Mar 26, 2010 >> www.reuters.com >> >>> >>> (Reuters) - News >>> >> Corp will charge readers for online versions of its >> >>> >> UK >> >>> Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming >>> >> the >> >>> first media >>> firm to test consumers' appetite to pay >>> >> for mass-market news >> >>> online. >>> >> First media company to >> ask people to pay for online news? I >> >>> don't >>> >> think >> so. Is its content in general going to be as >> >>> accurate as >>> >> this? >> Off the top of my head I can think of 2 media firms >> >> which have had >> paid news sites for several years. There may >> be >> >>> lots of paid sites so >>> >> obscure that few of us have ever >> heard of them >> >>> or that have >>> >> disappeared into the bit >> bucket. >> >> Kim >> -- >> Kim >> >>> Holburn >>> >> IT Network & Security Consultant >> T: +61 2 61402408 M: >> +61 >> >>> 404072753 >>> >> mailto:> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> >> aim://kimholburn >> skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> >> request >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Link >> >>> mailing >>> >> list >> >>> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" >>> >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> >> href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" >> target=_blank >> >>>>> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>>>> >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link >>> >> >> > > From wavey_one at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 09:47:40 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> You complain of Adelaide's newspapers, but why is Adelaide any different to say, Sydney or Melbourne? Sydney and Melbourne have 2 shoddy newspapers each, Adelaide has one. Big deal. And everyone has access to the ABC and The Australian. It doesn't help that Australian newspapers are cheap compared to their American or British counterparts. As for your "shoddy Murdoch tabloids", The Wall Street Journal, Times and Sunday Times and The Australian don't fit in this category. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 10:26:31 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/29, at 9:48 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > The problem > with your view of the future of news is verifying the? > source of > the news. I have that problem now with the mainstream media.? I have > always had? it.? It gets slightly worse after watching > Mediawatch.? If you don't? believe in the news the big news > organisations tell you then none of? that verifying stuff makes much > difference.? We clearly look at the? world very differently.? > I agree to differ with your view of these? things. > There's > good evidence that there will even be more unsubstantiated? > news > than there is now. There will be more news and so according to Sturgeon's > law there will? be more crud in at least the same ratio. > As > for the way you view news online, well, that's one way. There are? > > a number of ways. > > And the introduction of the Times/Sunday Times > paywall is possibly? > Murdoch attempting to protect his print > empire, or part of the? > reason. And he's not interested in people > like you viewing his? > websites since you view only one page and > then disappear. Isn't that better than not viewing that page?? > Perhaps not.? My fear? for the future is that everywhere will > become like Adelaide - only? shoddy Murdoch run tabloids or newspapers > of similar quality.? Oh? wait, it's happening already, > aaaargh!!!!? And before you accuse me of? Murdoch bashing, have > you spent much time in Adelaide and read the? newspapers > there? > So media outlets, not just News, want more committed > viewers. And their answer is to try and lock people into their site and > only? their site.? Good luck with that. > On the NYT > paywall, Times Select, I've already noted it was the? > opinion > columnists who defeated that since they were not happy since? > very > few were reading their columns. But they've probably learnt? > > lessons from last time. Maybe not too. They could study the news sites > that use a paywall successfully....? Hmmm... they probably > are. Still, like I said, if they're not part of the conversation > and? collaboration on the web they are not going to get much > interest. > And yes Ivan, I agree that Alexa is not perfect. It's > rankings are? > also skewed to people interested in media or > technology. > > David > > > > ----- Original > Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> To: Link list > <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> Sent: Mon, 29 > March, 2010 7:49:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers > online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/29, at 6:33 PM, David > Goldstein wrote: > >> It's my >> job/business to know > what media is out there. >> >> As for the free >> > websites, such as blogs, that provide "news". Well, >> there > are >> very few of these who can afford to find > investigative >> >> journalism, the little that happens now. > There are none that, at the >> >> extreme, can afford offices > in a diverse range of places like the >> >> New York Times or > BBC. > > The news doesn't have to end up like >> current > news organisations.? It > doesn't have to be concentrated >> > organisations like we have today that > do it all.? Lots of > things >> just fall off the news radar.? As news > online > changes there may >> be one person reporting on one issue here, > > another there.? There >> may be reporters who are expert in their > own > narrow fields. >> People reporting on areas that are simply > not covered > by MSM. >> There are news aggregators that are > entirely different >> > organisations.? Several different > aggregators aggregating >> different > news in different > ways. > > People read news online very >> differently, I > know I do.? I have > interests that don't match the >> > interests of most newspapers.? I can > tailor aggregators to > get >> personalised news.? I remember a discussion > years > ago about >> newsagents.? We are moving towards that although > I > think the >> original idea is somewhat like artificial > intelligence - we > won't see >> it as envisaged for a long > time.? If news sites opt out of > the >> web *conversation* > they will lose out. > >> Decent journalism has to be >> > paid for. > > You keep saying that but journalism may end up > looking >> completely > different on the web and the business > model will probably >> be different > too.? It doesn't have > to be anything like it used to >> be.? If you > concentrate > all that movement into one organisation >> you have a > different > kind of access to advertising.? Advertising >> itself on > the > web is being aggregated by advertising aggregators >> > (perhaps like > google). > >> And you seem to neglect that > the >> vast majority of online news sites >> were > originally >> offline. > > No I didn't forget that.? > Many of those sites tried >> paywalls too. > >> Or if > not, they source their news from somewhere like >> Reuters, > AP, >> AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites >> > reflects this. > > I did in fact mention this in my last > email. > >> >> As for Murdoch and the beginning of this > thread, it began by your >> >> incorrect assertion that The > Times and Sunday Times were not the >> >> first mass market > newspapers to put up such a paywall. > > The NYT has >> > already had a paywall and ditched it so no, the Times and > the > Sunday >> Times were not the first according to your > criteria. > >> href="> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" > target=_blank > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 > >> " >> target=_blank >>> > href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" > target=_blank > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 > > Times >> to Stop Charging for Parts of Its Web Site > By > RICHARD >> P?REZ-PE?A > Published: September 18, 2007 > The > New York Times will stop >> charging for access to parts of its > Web > site, effective at midnight >> tonight. > > > Skip to next paragraph > Related A Letter to Readers About >> > TimesSelect What the Blogs are Saying > The move comes two years to the > day >> after The Times began the > subscription program, > TimesSelect, which has >> charged $49.95 a year, or > $7.95 a > month, for online access to the work >> of its columnists and > to > the newspaper?s archives. TimesSelect has >> been free to > print > subscribers to The Times and to some students and >> > educators. > >> Which I corrected. > > Which you gave > your >> opinion.? One with which I do not happen to > agree. > >> As for my >> interest, just correcting the > inaccuracies in one of >> several >> online issues that I have > followed for quite a while now. It >> >> could even have an > impact on my business. >> >> If you want to start > a >> discussion on journalism, even the quality of >> it in > Australia, >> feel free and if it's interesting I'll > contribute. > > You go >> > first. > >> >> David >> >> >> > ----- Original Message >> ---- >>> From: Kim Holburn > <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>> To: Link > list >> <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Mon, > 29 >> March, 2010 5:40:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] > Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On > 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David >> Goldstein > wrote: >> >>> The Guardian >>> makes it as > a >> global paper as it gets more, or very >>> close > to >>> more, of >> its readers outside of the the UK than > in the UK. >>> I >>> >> doubt any non-English > language newspapers would have such >> > online >>> >>> > readership. >>> >>> It's not >> really relevant > as to whether a paywall >>> will work or > not >>> >> though. And maybe a division of global > mass >>> market and national >> mass >>> market > would be relevant. >> >> I'm not >>> >> > sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts.? I > guess >> >> on >>> reading closely that your > second paragraph is about the things >> you >>> >> > talk about in the first. >> >> Grammar >> > hint: >>> href="> target=_blank >> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank > >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" >> > target=_blank >>>>> target=_blank >> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank > >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : >> > Paragraph: >> A passage in text >>> that is about a > different subject from >> the >> preceding text, marked > by >>> commencing on a new >> > line.... >> >>> Maybe you haven't noticed the trend > for >>> >> major quality non-English >>> > newspapers to have an online >> English >>> version as > well? This has grown >>> in the last >> couple of years. > It's >>> the only way to get a global >>> >> > readership. >> >> There's an old >>> > joke: >> Q: What do >> you call someone who speaks 3 > languages? A: >>> trilingual. >> Q: >> What do you > call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: >>> >> > bilingual. >> Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 > language? >> A: >>> American (or >> > Australian). >> >> Would you even >> know if there > were a >>> major global Chinese or Spanish > or >> >> Russian news media company that had >>> > no English >> presence? >> >>> Anyway, back to the > topic at hand, do I >> think >>> newspapers will > make >>> money from online >> advertising? Not a lot. > It >>> won't pay for the >>> journalism. >> I > can't see any other method on the >>> horizon apart > from >>> >> paywalls. First The Times and Sunday > Times. >>> The New York Times >> has >>> said > it will follow. Le Monde is >>> introducing one to >> parts > of its >>> newspaper. >> >> You're > assuming >>> >> that with a disruptive technology like the > internet >> that the old >> media >>> empires will > transition just like they are to the >> new >> system.? > I >>> really doubt it.? There are already news > sites >> that are >> working >>> and even making > money online.? Sites >> that have never had nor >> > will >>> never have a print >> > presence. >> >>> Once it gets to a critical mass > of >>> >> newspapers making their content >>> > only available to payers, >> then >>> they will in all > likelihood take off. >> >> Good >> dream.? You > forget all >>> the new online media that won't go >> > down >> that path.? Pay is going >>> to find it hard > to >> compete with free. >> >>> The number of > online readers >>> >> will drop > dramatically, >> >> We agree on > this. >> >>> >> but news outlets >>> > seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, >> about >>> > visitors who look at >>> one page and disappear. They >> > want readers to >>> >>> > stay. >>> >>> So I'd >> guess The Times/Sunday > Times are prepared to see a >>> huge >> > drop >>> in casual readers and see regular and paying >> > readers >>> stay. >>> >>> What will happen? > Who knows. >> But journalism has to be paid >>> for > and >>> apart from the BBC >> and ABC who get their money > from a >>> licence fee/ >>> >> government, and > The Guardian who can possibly sustain >>> losses >> > forever >>> more, the loss of print advertising income > is >> not >>> sustainable. >> >> The old > "Journalism has to be paid >> for" argument. >>> Except > in >> traditional newspapers it's paid >> for by > advertising. >>> 55% (at least) >> of the actual > articles >> are from company press >>> releases.? In > big media >> >> companies they pass articles > around >>> between papers and buy >> stories >> > from wire services.? Not that much >>> original >> > content anyway.? Mostly >> just bought or paid > for >>> >> content. >> >> People said the > same thing about encyclopaedias, and >> look - >>> > there's >> one that doesn't have to pay for content, is >> > free and is >>> fast >> becoming, despite all the catches, > the >> global standard >>> source. >> >> > The internet is infested >> with "blogs" that are > effectively >>> news >> sites.? There is >> > journalism aplenty.? Try stopping >>> it.? > Actually >> >> that's what old media (read Murdoch and others > in >>> Europe) are >> trying >> to do with their > attacks on google and search sites >>> >> and > aggregators. >> Trying to stop all the non-corporate news >> > from >>> getting publicity and >> access.? Expect lots > more >> attacks on >>> google. >> >>> > As for my views of Murdoch. I >> can't actually see how > they >>> are >>> relevant to the >> discussion > here. >> >> This discussion >>> started with > an >> article about an ongoing Murdoch >> push.? You > are >>> the one >> who keeps on bringing him up and telling > us >> that we are >>> >> bashing him, so why don't > you tell us what you think, what >> >> your >>> > interest in this is.? Let us understand where you are >> > coming >>> >> from.? I know it's easier to criticise > others >> and then side-step >>> and >> say we > can't criticise you because >> you've never said what > you >>> think. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & > Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: +61 404072753 mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 30 10:02:26 2010 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (Richard Chirgwin) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:02:26 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BB13182.40205@ozemail.com.au> David Goldstein wrote: > You complain of Adelaide's newspapers, but why is Adelaide any different to say, Sydney or Melbourne? Sydney and Melbourne have 2 shoddy newspapers each, Adelaide has one. Big deal. And everyone has access to the ABC and The Australian. > Adelaide is, in effect, a one-publisher town. I probably swim against the tide here, but I don't actually consider the Sydney Morning Herald and the Daily Telegraph to be comparable. But maybe it's just that one uses longer words. > It doesn't help that Australian newspapers are cheap compared to their American or British counterparts. > It probably does help; at least in terms of limiting the decline of circulation ... but I'd have to do more analysis than I have time for at the moment to assess that. Cheap newspapers would surely be considered a good thing, in terms of access to information (setting aside the Internet's impacts). Australia has also long claimed relatively high per-capita newspaper readership - I suppose I should go and source some data on this, because I would suppose that newspaper circulation vs. Internet penetration would make an interesting metric ... > As for your "shoddy Murdoch tabloids", The Wall Street Journal, Times and Sunday Times and The Australian don't fit in this category. > True; the Oz is a broadsheet. RC > David > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 10:26:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> >> > On 2010/Mar/29, at 9:48 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > > >> The problem >> with your view of the future of news is verifying the >> source of >> the news. >> > > I have that problem now with the mainstream media. I have > >> always had >> > it. It gets slightly worse after watching > >> Mediawatch. If you don't >> > believe in the news the big news > >> organisations tell you then none of >> > that verifying stuff makes much > >> difference. We clearly look at the >> > world very differently. > >> I agree to differ with your view of these >> > things. > > >> There's >> good evidence that there will even be more unsubstantiated >> news >> than there is now. >> > > There will be more news and so according to Sturgeon's > >> law there will >> > be more crud in at least the same ratio. > > >> As >> for the way you view news online, well, that's one way. There are >> >> a number of ways. >> >> And the introduction of the Times/Sunday Times >> paywall is possibly >> Murdoch attempting to protect his print >> empire, or part of the >> reason. And he's not interested in people >> like you viewing his >> websites since you view only one page and >> then disappear. >> > > Isn't that better than not viewing that page? > >> Perhaps not. My fear >> > for the future is that everywhere will > >> become like Adelaide - only >> > shoddy Murdoch run tabloids or newspapers > >> of similar quality. Oh >> > wait, it's happening already, > >> aaaargh!!!! And before you accuse me of >> > Murdoch bashing, have > >> you spent much time in Adelaide and read the >> > newspapers > >> there? >> > > >> So media outlets, not just News, want more committed >> viewers. >> > > And their answer is to try and lock people into their site and > >> only >> > their site. Good luck with that. > > >> On the NYT >> paywall, Times Select, I've already noted it was the >> opinion >> columnists who defeated that since they were not happy since >> very >> few were reading their columns. But they've probably learnt >> >> lessons from last time. Maybe not too. >> > > They could study the news sites > >> that use a paywall successfully.... >> > Hmmm... they probably > >> are. >> > > Still, like I said, if they're not part of the conversation > >> and >> > collaboration on the web they are not going to get much > >> interest. >> > > >> And yes Ivan, I agree that Alexa is not perfect. It's >> rankings are >> also skewed to people interested in media or >> technology. >> >> David >> >> >> >> ----- Original >> Message ---- >> >>> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >>> >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> >>> To: Link list >>> >> <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> >>> Sent: Mon, 29 >>> >> March, 2010 7:49:20 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >>> >> online >> >>> >> On 2010/Mar/29, at 6:33 PM, David >> Goldstein wrote: >> >> >>> It's my >>> job/business to know >>> >> what media is out there. >> >>> As for the free >>> >>> >> websites, such as blogs, that provide "news". Well, >> >>> there >>> >> are >> >>> very few of these who can afford to find >>> >> investigative >> >>> journalism, the little that happens now. >>> >> There are none that, at the >> >>> extreme, can afford offices >>> >> in a diverse range of places like the >> >>> New York Times or >>> >> BBC. >> >> The news doesn't have to end up like >> >>> current >>> >> news organisations. It >> doesn't have to be concentrated >> >> organisations like we have today that >> do it all. Lots of >> things >> >>> just fall off the news radar. As news >>> >> online >> changes there may >> >>> be one person reporting on one issue here, >>> >> another there. There >> >>> may be reporters who are expert in their >>> >> own >> narrow fields. >> >>> People reporting on areas that are simply >>> >> not covered >> by MSM. >> >>> There are news aggregators that are >>> >> entirely different >> >> organisations. Several different >> aggregators aggregating >> >>> different >>> >> news in different >> ways. >> >> People read news online very >> >>> differently, I >>> >> know I do. I have >> interests that don't match the >> >> interests of most newspapers. I can >> tailor aggregators to >> get >> >>> personalised news. I remember a discussion >>> >> years >> ago about >> >>> newsagents. We are moving towards that although >>> >> I >> think the >> >>> original idea is somewhat like artificial >>> >> intelligence - we >> won't see >> >>> it as envisaged for a long >>> >> time. If news sites opt out of >> the >> >>> web *conversation* >>> >> they will lose out. >> >> >>> Decent journalism has to be >>> >>> >> paid for. >> >> You keep saying that but journalism may end up >> looking >> >>> completely >>> >> different on the web and the business >> model will probably >> >>> be different >>> >> too. It doesn't have >> to be anything like it used to >> >>> be. If you >>> >> concentrate >> all that movement into one organisation >> >>> you have a >>> >> different >> kind of access to advertising. Advertising >> >>> itself on >>> >> the >> web is being aggregated by advertising aggregators >> >> (perhaps like >> google). >> >> >>> And you seem to neglect that >>> >> the >> >>> vast majority of online news sites >>> were >>> >> originally >> >>> offline. >>> >> No I didn't forget that. >> Many of those sites tried >> >>> paywalls too. >>> >>> Or if >>> >> not, they source their news from somewhere like >> >>> Reuters, >>> >> AP, >> >>> AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites >>> >>> >> reflects this. >> >> I did in fact mention this in my last >> email. >> >> >>> As for Murdoch and the beginning of this >>> >> thread, it began by your >> >>> incorrect assertion that The >>> >> Times and Sunday Times were not the >> >>> first mass market >>> >> newspapers to put up such a paywall. >> >> The NYT has >> >> already had a paywall and ditched it so no, the Times and >> the >> Sunday >> >>> Times were not the first according to your >>> >> criteria. >> >> >>> href="> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" >>> >> target=_blank >> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >>> >>> " >>> target=_blank >>> >>>>> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" >>>>> >> target=_blank >> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >>> >> Times >> >>> to Stop Charging for Parts of Its Web Site >>> >> By >> RICHARD >> >>> P?REZ-PE?A >>> >> Published: September 18, 2007 >> The >> New York Times will stop >> >>> charging for access to parts of its >>> >> Web >> site, effective at midnight >> >>> tonight. >>> >> Skip to next paragraph >> Related A Letter to Readers About >> >> TimesSelect What the Blogs are Saying >> The move comes two years to the >> day >> >>> after The Times began the >>> >> subscription program, >> TimesSelect, which has >> >>> charged $49.95 a year, or >>> >> $7.95 a >> month, for online access to the work >> >>> of its columnists and >>> >> to >> the newspaper?s archives. TimesSelect has >> >>> been free to >>> >> print >> subscribers to The Times and to some students and >> >> educators. >> >> >>> Which I corrected. >>> >> Which you gave >> your >> >>> opinion. One with which I do not happen to >>> >> agree. >> >> >>> As for my >>> interest, just correcting the >>> >> inaccuracies in one of >> >>> several >>> online issues that I have >>> >> followed for quite a while now. It >> >>> could even have an >>> >> impact on my business. >> >>> If you want to start >>> >> a >> >>> discussion on journalism, even the quality of >>> it in >>> >> Australia, >> >>> feel free and if it's interesting I'll >>> >> contribute. >> >> You go >> >> first. >> >> >>> David >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ----- Original Message >> >>> ---- >>> >>>> From: Kim Holburn >>>> >> <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> >>>> To: Link >>>> >> list >> >>> <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" >>> >> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> >>>> Sent: Mon, >>>> >> 29 >> >>> March, 2010 5:40:40 PM >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [LINK] >>>> >> Newspapers >> >>> online >>> >>>> >>> On >>> >> 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David >> >>> Goldstein >>> >> wrote: >> >>>> The Guardian >>>> makes it as >>>> >> a >> >>> global paper as it gets more, or very >>> >>>> close >>>> >> to >> >>>> more, of >>>> >>> its readers outside of the the UK than >>> >> in the UK. >> >>>> I >>>> >>>> >>> doubt any non-English >>> >> language newspapers would have such >> >> online >> >>>> >> readership. >> >>>> It's not >>>> >>> really relevant >>> >> as to whether a paywall >> >>>> will work or >>>> >> not >> >>> though. And maybe a division of global >>> >> mass >> >>>> market and national >>>> >>> mass >>> >>>> market >>>> >> would be relevant. >> >>> I'm not >>> >> sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts. I >> guess >> >>> on >>> >>>> reading closely that your >>>> >> second paragraph is about the things >> >>> you >>> >> talk about in the first. >> >>> Grammar >>> >>> >> hint: >> >>>> href="> target=_blank >> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank >>>> >>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" >>> >>> >> target=_blank >> >>>>>> target=_blank >> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank >>>>>> >>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : >>> >>> >> Paragraph: >> >>> A passage in text >>> >>>> that is about a >>>> >> different subject from >> >>> the >>> preceding text, marked >>> >> by >> >>>> commencing on a new >>>> >> line.... >> >>>> Maybe you haven't noticed the trend >>>> >> for >> >>> major quality non-English >>> >> newspapers to have an online >> >>> English >>> >>>> version as >>>> >> well? This has grown >> >>>> in the last >>>> >>> couple of years. >>> >> It's >> >>>> the only way to get a global >>>> >>>> >> readership. >> >>> There's an old >>> >> joke: >> >>> Q: What do >>> you call someone who speaks 3 >>> >> languages? A: >> >>>> trilingual. >>>> >>> Q: >>> What do you >>> >> call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: >> >> bilingual. >> >>> Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 >>> >> language? >> >>> A: >>> >>>> American (or >>>> >> Australian). >> >>> Would you even >>> know if there >>> >> were a >> >>>> major global Chinese or Spanish >>>> >> or >> >>> Russian news media company that had >>> >> no English >> >>> presence? >>> >>> >>>> Anyway, back to the >>>> >> topic at hand, do I >> >>> think >>> >>>> newspapers will >>>> >> make >> >>>> money from online >>>> >>> advertising? Not a lot. >>> >> It >> >>>> won't pay for the >>>> journalism. >>>> >>> I >>> >> can't see any other method on the >> >>>> horizon apart >>>> >> from >> >>> paywalls. First The Times and Sunday >>> >> Times. >> >>>> The New York Times >>>> >>> has >>> >>>> said >>>> >> it will follow. Le Monde is >> >>>> introducing one to >>>> >>> parts >>> >> of its >> >>>> newspaper. >>>> >>> You're >>> >> assuming >> >>> that with a disruptive technology like the >>> >> internet >> >>> that the old >>> media >>> >>>> empires will >>>> >> transition just like they are to the >> >>> new >>> system. >>> >> I >> >>>> really doubt it. There are already news >>>> >> sites >> >>> that are >>> working >>> >>>> and even making >>>> >> money online. Sites >> >>> that have never had nor >>> >>> >> will >> >>>> never have a print >>>> >> presence. >> >>>> Once it gets to a critical mass >>>> >> of >> >>> newspapers making their content >>> >> only available to payers, >> >>> then >>> >>>> they will in all >>>> >> likelihood take off. >> >>> Good >>> dream. You >>> >> forget all >> >>>> the new online media that won't go >>>> >> down >> >>> that path. Pay is going >>> >>>> to find it hard >>>> >> to >> >>> compete with free. >>> >>> >>>> The number of >>>> >> online readers >> >>> will drop >>> >> dramatically, >> >>> We agree on >>> >> this. >> >>> but news outlets >>> >> seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, >> >>> about >>> >> visitors who look at >> >>>> one page and disappear. They >>>> >> want readers to >> >>>> >> stay. >> >>>> So I'd >>>> >>> guess The Times/Sunday >>> >> Times are prepared to see a >> >>>> huge >>>> >> drop >> >>>> in casual readers and see regular and paying >>>> >> readers >> >>>> stay. >>>> >>>> What will happen? >>>> >> Who knows. >> >>> But journalism has to be paid >>> >>>> for >>>> >> and >> >>>> apart from the BBC >>>> >>> and ABC who get their money >>> >> from a >> >>>> licence fee/ >>>> >>>> >>> government, and >>> >> The Guardian who can possibly sustain >> >>>> losses >>>> >> forever >> >>>> more, the loss of print advertising income >>>> >> is >> >>> not >>> >>>> sustainable. >>>> >>> The old >>> >> "Journalism has to be paid >> >>> for" argument. >>> >>>> Except >>>> >> in >> >>> traditional newspapers it's paid >>> for by >>> >> advertising. >> >>>> 55% (at least) >>>> >>> of the actual >>> >> articles >> >>> are from company press >>> >>>> releases. In >>>> >> big media >> >>> companies they pass articles >>> >> around >> >>>> between papers and buy >>>> >>> stories >>> >>> >> from wire services. Not that much >> >>>> original >>>> >> content anyway. Mostly >> >>> just bought or paid >>> >> for >> >>> content. >>> >>> People said the >>> >> same thing about encyclopaedias, and >> >>> look - >>> >> there's >> >>> one that doesn't have to pay for content, is >>> >>> >> free and is >> >>>> fast >>>> >>> becoming, despite all the catches, >>> >> the >> >>> global standard >>> >>>> source. >>>> >>> >> The internet is infested >> >>> with "blogs" that are >>> >> effectively >> >>>> news >>>> >>> sites. There is >>> >>> >> journalism aplenty. Try stopping >> >>>> it. >>>> >> Actually >> >>> that's what old media (read Murdoch and others >>> >> in >> >>>> Europe) are >>>> >>> trying >>> to do with their >>> >> attacks on google and search sites >> >>> and >>> >> aggregators. >> >>> Trying to stop all the non-corporate news >>> >>> >> from >> >>>> getting publicity and >>>> >>> access. Expect lots >>> >> more >> >>> attacks on >>> >>>> google. >>>> >> As for my views of Murdoch. I >> >>> can't actually see how >>> >> they >> >>>> are >>>> relevant to the >>>> >>> discussion >>> >> here. >> >>> This discussion >>> >>>> started with >>>> >> an >> >>> article about an ongoing Murdoch >>> push. You >>> >> are >> >>>> the one >>>> >>> who keeps on bringing him up and telling >>> >> us >> >>> that we are >>> >>> bashing him, so why don't >>> >> you tell us what you think, what >> >>> your >>> >> interest in this is. Let us understand where you are >> >> coming >> >>> from. I know it's easier to criticise >>> >> others >> >>> and then side-step >>> >>>> and >>>> >>> say we >>> >> can't criticise you because >> >>> you've never said what >>> >> you >> >>>> think. >>>> > > From georgebray at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 10:05:34 2010 From: georgebray at gmail.com (George Bray) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:05:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <4BB10AD9.6070907@ozemail.com.au> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4BB10AD9.6070907@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <635bd2181003291605r4b87eb97y5b74ee78b55af5b9@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Richard Chirgwin wrote: >> RC >> (As for being Murdoch-knockers, Australians have a perfect right to be. >> We've put up with him longer than anyone else in the world!) He's our tallest poppy, it would be unAustralian to stop bashing him. -- George Bray, Canberra, Australia. http://geobray.com From ivan at itrundle.com Tue Mar 30 10:26:52 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:26:52 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 29/03/2010, at 9:48 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > And he's not interested in people like you viewing his websites since you view only one page and then disappear. So media outlets, not just News, want more committed viewers. There goes the future of the media, in a nutshell. What media outlets want - and what they end up getting - will be interesting to watch. The term 'commitment' and 'internet' just don't sit well together. If 'he' (and I assume we are talking about Mr Murdoch here) is seeking a demographic who sit on one website for their news content (or anything else), he's seeking a dying (and diminishing) segment of the population. I also think that the definition of 'media outlet' will become more difficult to pin down in the brave new world being discussed in this thread. iT From ivan at itrundle.com Tue Mar 30 10:28:08 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:28:08 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <635bd2181003291605r4b87eb97y5b74ee78b55af5b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4BB10AD9.6070907@ozemail.com.au> <635bd2181003291605r4b87eb97y5b74ee78b55af5b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 30/03/2010, at 10:05 AM, George Bray wrote: > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Richard Chirgwin > wrote: > >>> RC >>> (As for being Murdoch-knockers, Australians have a perfect right to be. >>> We've put up with him longer than anyone else in the world!) > > He's our tallest poppy, it would be unAustralian to stop bashing him. Hardly fair, since he is no longer Australian. Shouldn't we be knocking Andrew Forrest, Frank Lowy et al first? As an aside, it would be interesting to discover who not only which billionaires control which media markets in the world (Murdoch can't be the only one), but to discover what 'influence' they have (in terms of readership/viewers/etc). From stephen at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 30 12:00:28 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 01:00:28 GMT Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online Message-ID: <20100330010028.D3CBD630@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Ivan writes, > As an aside, it would be interesting to discover who not only which > billionaires control which media markets in the world.. to discover > what 'influence' they have .. And perhaps predictably, lots of influence, aparently .. 'BBC bows to newspaper concerns, delays mobile apps' Mar 29, 2010 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62S3XQ20100329? type=technologyNews?feedType=nl&feedName=ustechnology LONDON (Reuters) - British state broadcaster BBC has delayed launching mobile applications delivering its news and sport free to devices like Apple's iPhone after newspapers expressed concern about direct competition. The Newspaper Publishers Association had asked the BBC's governing body, the BBC Trust, to examine proposals it feared could harm efforts by commercial rivals to succeed with their own offerings. "It is vital that these proposals are scrutinized properly to avoid any adverse impact on commercial media organizations," the NPA's director, David Newell, said on Monday. "We are pleased that the BBC Trust has listened to the industry's concerns and acted to delay the planned April launch." The BBC Trust will now examine the proposals. It did not give any timetable, but the earliest it was likely to discuss the matter is at a meeting late next month. The BBC, which receives a guaranteed 3.6 billion pounds each year ($5.4 billion) in license fees paid by householders, has come under fierce attack from broadcaster BSkyB and other commercial rivals exposed to a severe advertising slump. James Murdoch, seen as the heir to his father Rupert Murdoch's News Corp media empire, has described the broadcaster's scale and ambitions as "chilling." The amount of free content the BBC already makes available online has discouraged many newspapers from attempting to charge readers for content on the Web. Earlier this month, the BBC signaled a retreat from some commercial operations to focus on core services, bowing to pressure from rivals and ahead of a general election almost certain to result in public spending cuts. (Reporting by Georgina Prodhan; Editing by Dan Lalor) -- Cheers, Stephen From kauer at biplane.com.au Tue Mar 30 12:14:13 2010 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:14:13 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <20100330010028.D3CBD630@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100330010028.D3CBD630@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <1269911653.923.397.camel@karl> On Tue, 2010-03-30 at 01:00 +0000, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > James Murdoch, seen as the heir to his father Rupert Murdoch's News Corp > media empire, has described [the BBC's] scale and ambitions > as "chilling." Bwahahahahahahaaaaahaaaaaaaaa :-) :-) Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) +61-2-64957160 (h) http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob) GPG fingerprint: B386 7819 B227 2961 8301 C5A9 2EBC 754B CD97 0156 Old fingerprint: 07F3 1DF9 9D45 8BCD 7DD5 00CE 4A44 6A03 F43A 7DEF From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 13:32:59 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:32:59 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <805B1560-9244-4056-BD39-F8A111C52500@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/30, at 10:26 AM, Ivan Trundle wrote: > On 29/03/2010, at 9:48 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> And he's not interested in people like you viewing his websites >> since you view only one page and then disappear. So media outlets, >> not just News, want more committed viewers. > > There goes the future of the media, in a nutshell. > > What media outlets want - and what they end up getting - will be > interesting to watch. The term 'commitment' and 'internet' just > don't sit well together. It's interesting that this is such a close parallel to the issue the music industry had with albums. They wanted (still want) to go on selling albums but the internet has allowed people to buy single songs. Newspapers are now looking down the barrel of the same slow motion car crash that has enveloped the music industry. (To mix a few metaphors). -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 13:35:37 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:35:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/30, at 9:47 AM, David Goldstein wrote: > You complain of Adelaide's newspapers, but why is Adelaide any > different to say, Sydney or Melbourne? Sydney and Melbourne have 2 > shoddy newspapers each, Adelaide has one. Big deal. And everyone has > access to the ABC and The Australian. Adelaide only has newspapers owned by the US citizen. > It doesn't help that Australian newspapers are cheap compared to > their American or British counterparts. What an odd thing to say. Can you back that up with any actual facts? The Times is ?1 (1 pound) = AU$1.60, is that a lot more expensive than Australian newspapers? The Metro is free. There are lots of free newspapers in Europe. The big ones are not that much more expansive than here. I don't know about the US. > As for your "shoddy Murdoch tabloids", The Wall Street Journal, > Times and Sunday Times and The Australian don't fit in this category. Yeah, you're right, calling them tabloids is technically incorrect. > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 10:26:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/29, at 9:48 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> The problem >> with your view of the future of news is verifying the >> source of >> the news. > > I have that problem now with the mainstream media. I have >> always had > it. It gets slightly worse after watching >> Mediawatch. If you don't > believe in the news the big news >> organisations tell you then none of > that verifying stuff makes much >> difference. We clearly look at the > world very differently. >> I agree to differ with your view of these > things. > >> There's >> good evidence that there will even be more unsubstantiated >> news >> than there is now. > > There will be more news and so according to Sturgeon's >> law there will > be more crud in at least the same ratio. > >> As >> for the way you view news online, well, that's one way. There are >> >> a number of ways. >> >> And the introduction of the Times/Sunday Times >> paywall is possibly >> Murdoch attempting to protect his print >> empire, or part of the >> reason. And he's not interested in people >> like you viewing his >> websites since you view only one page and >> then disappear. > > Isn't that better than not viewing that page? >> Perhaps not. My fear > for the future is that everywhere will >> become like Adelaide - only > shoddy Murdoch run tabloids or newspapers >> of similar quality. Oh > wait, it's happening already, >> aaaargh!!!! And before you accuse me of > Murdoch bashing, have >> you spent much time in Adelaide and read the > newspapers >> there? > >> So media outlets, not just News, want more committed >> viewers. > > And their answer is to try and lock people into their site and >> only > their site. Good luck with that. > >> On the NYT >> paywall, Times Select, I've already noted it was the >> opinion >> columnists who defeated that since they were not happy since >> very >> few were reading their columns. But they've probably learnt >> >> lessons from last time. Maybe not too. > > They could study the news sites >> that use a paywall successfully.... > Hmmm... they probably >> are. > > Still, like I said, if they're not part of the conversation >> and > collaboration on the web they are not going to get much >> interest. > >> And yes Ivan, I agree that Alexa is not perfect. It's >> rankings are >> also skewed to people interested in media or >> technology. >> >> David >> >> >> >> ----- Original >> Message ---- >>> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>> To: Link list >> <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Mon, 29 >> March, 2010 7:49:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On 2010/Mar/29, at 6:33 PM, David >> Goldstein wrote: >> >>> It's my >>> job/business to know >> what media is out there. >>> >>> As for the free >>> >> websites, such as blogs, that provide "news". Well, >>> there >> are >>> very few of these who can afford to find >> investigative >>> >>> journalism, the little that happens now. >> There are none that, at the >>> >>> extreme, can afford offices >> in a diverse range of places like the >>> >>> New York Times or >> BBC. >> >> The news doesn't have to end up like >>> current >> news organisations. It >> doesn't have to be concentrated >>> >> organisations like we have today that >> do it all. Lots of >> things >>> just fall off the news radar. As news >> online >> changes there may >>> be one person reporting on one issue here, >> >> another there. There >>> may be reporters who are expert in their >> own >> narrow fields. >>> People reporting on areas that are simply >> not covered >> by MSM. >>> There are news aggregators that are >> entirely different >>> >> organisations. Several different >> aggregators aggregating >>> different >> news in different >> ways. >> >> People read news online very >>> differently, I >> know I do. I have >> interests that don't match the >>> >> interests of most newspapers. I can >> tailor aggregators to >> get >>> personalised news. I remember a discussion >> years >> ago about >>> newsagents. We are moving towards that although >> I >> think the >>> original idea is somewhat like artificial >> intelligence - we >> won't see >>> it as envisaged for a long >> time. If news sites opt out of >> the >>> web *conversation* >> they will lose out. >> >>> Decent journalism has to be >>> >> paid for. >> >> You keep saying that but journalism may end up >> looking >>> completely >> different on the web and the business >> model will probably >>> be different >> too. It doesn't have >> to be anything like it used to >>> be. If you >> concentrate >> all that movement into one organisation >>> you have a >> different >> kind of access to advertising. Advertising >>> itself on >> the >> web is being aggregated by advertising aggregators >>> >> (perhaps like >> google). >> >>> And you seem to neglect that >> the >>> vast majority of online news sites >>> were >> originally >>> offline. >> >> No I didn't forget that. >> Many of those sites tried >>> paywalls too. >> >>> Or if >> not, they source their news from somewhere like >>> Reuters, >> AP, >>> AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news sites >>> >> reflects this. >> >> I did in fact mention this in my last >> email. >> >>> >>> As for Murdoch and the beginning of this >> thread, it began by your >>> >>> incorrect assertion that The >> Times and Sunday Times were not the >>> >>> first mass market >> newspapers to put up such a paywall. >> >> The NYT has >>> >> already had a paywall and ditched it so no, the Times and >> the >> Sunday >>> Times were not the first according to your >> criteria. >> >>> href="> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >>> " >> target=_blank >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >> >>> " >>> target=_blank >>>>> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >>>>> " >> target=_blank >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >> >> Times >>> to Stop Charging for Parts of Its Web Site >> By >> RICHARD >>> P?REZ-PE?A >> Published: September 18, 2007 >> The >> New York Times will stop >>> charging for access to parts of its >> Web >> site, effective at midnight >>> tonight. >> >> >> Skip to next paragraph >> Related A Letter to Readers About >>> >> TimesSelect What the Blogs are Saying >> The move comes two years to the >> day >>> after The Times began the >> subscription program, >> TimesSelect, which has >>> charged $49.95 a year, or >> $7.95 a >> month, for online access to the work >>> of its columnists and >> to >> the newspaper?s archives. TimesSelect has >>> been free to >> print >> subscribers to The Times and to some students and >>> >> educators. >> >>> Which I corrected. >> >> Which you gave >> your >>> opinion. One with which I do not happen to >> agree. >> >>> As for my >>> interest, just correcting the >> inaccuracies in one of >>> several >>> online issues that I have >> followed for quite a while now. It >>> >>> could even have an >> impact on my business. >>> >>> If you want to start >> a >>> discussion on journalism, even the quality of >>> it in >> Australia, >>> feel free and if it's interesting I'll >> contribute. >> >> You go >>> >> first. >> >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> >> ----- Original Message >>> ---- >>>> From: Kim Holburn >> <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> >> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>>> To: Link >> list >>> <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">> >>> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" >> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>>> Sent: Mon, >> 29 >>> March, 2010 5:40:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [LINK] >> Newspapers >>> online >>>> >>>> >>> On >> 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David >>> Goldstein >> wrote: >>> >>>> The Guardian >>>> makes it as >> a >>> global paper as it gets more, or very >>>> close >> to >>>> more, of >>> its readers outside of the the UK than >> in the UK. >>>> I >>>> >>> doubt any non-English >> language newspapers would have such >>> >> online >>>> >>>> >> readership. >>>> >>>> It's not >>> really relevant >> as to whether a paywall >>>> will work or >> not >>>> >>> though. And maybe a division of global >> mass >>>> market and national >>> mass >>>> market >> would be relevant. >>> >>> I'm not >>>> >>> >> sure I understand your system of paragraph layouts. I >> guess >>> >>> on >>>> reading closely that your >> second paragraph is about the things >>> you >>>> >>> >> talk about in the first. >>> >>> Grammar >>> >> hint: >>>> href="> target=_blank >> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph >>>> " target=_blank >>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" >>> >> target=_blank >>>>>> target=_blank >> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" >>>>>> target=_blank >>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph : >>> >> Paragraph: >>> A passage in text >>>> that is about a >> different subject from >>> the >>> preceding text, marked >> by >>>> commencing on a new >>> >> line.... >>> >>>> Maybe you haven't noticed the trend >> for >>>> >>> major quality non-English >>>> >> newspapers to have an online >>> English >>>> version as >> well? This has grown >>>> in the last >>> couple of years. >> It's >>>> the only way to get a global >>>> >>> >> readership. >>> >>> There's an old >>>> >> joke: >>> Q: What do >>> you call someone who speaks 3 >> languages? A: >>>> trilingual. >>> Q: >>> What do you >> call someone who speaks 2 languages? A: >>>> >>> >> bilingual. >>> Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 >> language? >>> A: >>>> American (or >>> >> Australian). >>> >>> Would you even >>> know if there >> were a >>>> major global Chinese or Spanish >> or >>> >>> Russian news media company that had >>>> >> no English >>> presence? >>> >>>> Anyway, back to the >> topic at hand, do I >>> think >>>> newspapers will >> make >>>> money from online >>> advertising? Not a lot. >> It >>>> won't pay for the >>>> journalism. >>> I >> can't see any other method on the >>>> horizon apart >> from >>>> >>> paywalls. First The Times and Sunday >> Times. >>>> The New York Times >>> has >>>> said >> it will follow. Le Monde is >>>> introducing one to >>> parts >> of its >>>> newspaper. >>> >>> You're >> assuming >>>> >>> that with a disruptive technology like the >> internet >>> that the old >>> media >>>> empires will >> transition just like they are to the >>> new >>> system. >> I >>>> really doubt it. There are already news >> sites >>> that are >>> working >>>> and even making >> money online. Sites >>> that have never had nor >>> >> will >>>> never have a print >>> >> presence. >>> >>>> Once it gets to a critical mass >> of >>>> >>> newspapers making their content >>>> >> only available to payers, >>> then >>>> they will in all >> likelihood take off. >>> >>> Good >>> dream. You >> forget all >>>> the new online media that won't go >>> >> down >>> that path. Pay is going >>>> to find it hard >> to >>> compete with free. >>> >>>> The number of >> online readers >>>> >>> will drop >> dramatically, >>> >>> We agree on >> this. >>> >>>> >>> but news outlets >>>> >> seem unconcerned, or happy to wear it, >>> about >>>> >> visitors who look at >>>> one page and disappear. They >>> >> want readers to >>>> >>>> >> stay. >>>> >>>> So I'd >>> guess The Times/Sunday >> Times are prepared to see a >>>> huge >>> >> drop >>>> in casual readers and see regular and paying >>> >> readers >>>> stay. >>>> >>>> What will happen? >> Who knows. >>> But journalism has to be paid >>>> for >> and >>>> apart from the BBC >>> and ABC who get their money >> from a >>>> licence fee/ >>>> >>> government, and >> The Guardian who can possibly sustain >>>> losses >>> >> forever >>>> more, the loss of print advertising income >> is >>> not >>>> sustainable. >>> >>> The old >> "Journalism has to be paid >>> for" argument. >>>> Except >> in >>> traditional newspapers it's paid >>> for by >> advertising. >>>> 55% (at least) >>> of the actual >> articles >>> are from company press >>>> releases. In >> big media >>> >>> companies they pass articles >> around >>>> between papers and buy >>> stories >>> >> from wire services. Not that much >>>> original >>> >> content anyway. Mostly >>> just bought or paid >> for >>>> >>> content. >>> >>> People said the >> same thing about encyclopaedias, and >>> look - >>>> >> there's >>> one that doesn't have to pay for content, is >>> >> free and is >>>> fast >>> becoming, despite all the catches, >> the >>> global standard >>>> source. >>> >>> >> The internet is infested >>> with "blogs" that are >> effectively >>>> news >>> sites. There is >>> >> journalism aplenty. Try stopping >>>> it. >> Actually >>> >>> that's what old media (read Murdoch and others >> in >>>> Europe) are >>> trying >>> to do with their >> attacks on google and search sites >>>> >>> and >> aggregators. >>> Trying to stop all the non-corporate news >>> >> from >>>> getting publicity and >>> access. Expect lots >> more >>> attacks on >>>> google. >>> >>>> >> As for my views of Murdoch. I >>> can't actually see how >> they >>>> are >>>> relevant to the >>> discussion >> here. >>> >>> This discussion >>>> started with >> an >>> article about an ongoing Murdoch >>> push. You >> are >>>> the one >>> who keeps on bringing him up and telling >> us >>> that we are >>>> >>> bashing him, so why don't >> you tell us what you think, what >>> >>> your >>>> >> interest in this is. Let us understand where you are >>> >> coming >>>> >>> from. I know it's easier to criticise >> others >>> and then side-step >>>> and >>> say we >> can't criticise you because >>> you've never said what >> you >>>> think. > > -- > Kim Holburn > IT Network & >> Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 > mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> request > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 13:46:46 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:46:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] The State of the Internet Operating System Message-ID: Interesting essay by Tim O'Reilly http://radar.oreilly.com/2010/03/state-of-internet-operating-system.html > The State of the Internet Operating System > On a standalone computer, operating systems like Windows, Mac OS X, > and Linux manage the machine's resources, making it possible for > applications to focus on the job they do for the user. But many of > the activities that are most important to us today take place in a > mysterious space between individual machines. Most people take for > granted that these things just work, and complain when the daily > miracle of instantaneous communications and access to information > breaks down for even a moment. > > But peel back the covers and remember that there is an enormous, > worldwide technical infrastructure that is enabling the always-on > future that we rush thoughtlessly towards. > ... > But how different is this from PC application development in the > early 1980s, when every application provider wrote their own device > drivers to support the hodgepodge of disks, ports, keyboards, and > screens that comprised the still emerging personal computer > ecosystem? Along came Microsoft with an offer that was difficult to > refuse: We'll manage the drivers; all application developers have to > do is write software that uses the Win32 APIs, and all of the > complexity will be abstracted away. > I'm not sure you can blame this "innovation" on Microsoft. I would say Apple had already been there and apart from that it makes sense in a software engineering way anyway. > It was. Few developers write device drivers any more. That is left > to device manufacturers, with all the messiness hidden by "operating > system vendors" who manage the updates and often provide generic > APIs for entire classes of device. Those vendors who took on the > pain of managing complexity ended up with a powerful lock-in. They > created the context in which applications have worked ever since. > > This is the crux of my argument about the internet operating system. > We are once again approaching the point at which the Faustian > bargain will be made: simply use our facilities, and the complexity > will go away. And much as happened during the 1980s, there is more > than one company making that promise. We're entering a modern > version of "the Great Game", the rivalry to control the narrow > passes to the promised future of computing. (John Battelle calls > them "points of control".) This rivalry is seen most acutely in > mobile applications that rely on internet services as back-ends. As > Nick Bilton of the New York Times described it in a recent article > comparing the Google Nexus One and the iPhone: > .... > Media Access > Just as a PC-era operating system has the capability to manage user- > level constructs like files and directories as well as lower-level > constructs like physical disk volumes and blocks, an Internet-era > operating system must provide access to various types of media, such > as web pages, music, videos, photos, e-books, office documents, > presentations, downloadable applications, and more. Each of these > media types requires some common technology infrastructure beyond > specialized search: > ? Access Control. Since not all information is freely available, > managing access control - providing snippets rather than full > sources, providing streaming but not downloads, recognizing > authorized users and giving them a different result from > unauthorized users - is a crucial feature of the Internet OS. (Like > it or not.) > The recent moves by News Corp to place their newspapers behind a > paywall, as well as the paid application and content marketplace of > the iPhone and iPad suggests that the ability to manage access to > content is going to be more important, rather than less, in the > years ahead. We're largely past the knee-jerk "keep it off the net" > reactions of old school DRM; companies are going to be exploring > more nuanced ways to control access to content, and the platform > provider that has the most robust systems (and consumer > expectations) for paid content is going to be in a very strong > position. > > In the world of the App Store, paid applications and paid content > are re-legitimizing access control (and payment.) Don't assume that > advertising will continue to be the only significant way to monetize > internet content in the years ahead. > -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Tue Mar 30 13:53:55 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:55 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Oz: 'Hi-tech efficiency key to future service delivery' Message-ID: [A report came out yesterday: [AGRAGA (2010) 'Ahead of the Game: Blueprint for Reform of Australian Government Administration' Advisory Group on Reform of Australian Government Administration, Canberra, 29 March 2010, at http://www.dpmc.gov.au/publications/aga_reform/aga_reform_blueprint/index.cfm [An Opinion piece promoting an aspect of it is below. [There are a couple of common features of proposals to consolidate public services (and, with them, personal data): (1) they're always expressed with breathless excitement (2) little or no attention is paid to consent and privacy [This one's no exception to either of the above rules. For example, there are 8 occurrences of the word 'privacy' in the 84+12 pages. And every one of them is of the form'consistent with privacy', i.e. vacuous. [Declaration 1: I haven't had time to read the report yet. One thing that certainly needs to be evaluated is 'develop and implement new approaches to collaboration and consultation with citizens on policy and service delivery issues', briefly discussed on p. 39. [Declaration 2: Based on an amount of consultancy work in the area, conducted with colleagues, I published this: Electronic Services Delivery: From Brochure-Ware to Entry Points http://www.rogerclarke.com/EC/ESD.html [That was written in late 1998, i.e. over 11 years ago. [Could it be that the last 15 years of promise has been undermined by the arrogance of public servants, who have wanted to foist their conception of how the world should work onto a public that is not enthusiastic about being treated as cogs in the public service wheel? [If so, is there anything in this document that could lead to the necessary culture shift within the APS? [(Unfortunately, the term 'nanny state' will have to be left out of conversations for a while, after the reporting of Mark Webber's comments degraded it by equating it with the freedom to burn rubber).] Hi-tech efficiency key to future service delivery Ann Sherry Opinion The Australian March 30, 2010 12:00AM http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/hi-tech-efficiency-key-to-future-service-delivery/story-e6frg6zo-1225847158993 Here is an example of how an average Australian may have contact with government 10 years from now. Lyn has just given birth to her second child, Jai. During her pregnancy she registered online with Government Services Australia and selected a range of maternity-related services that she wished to receive. When Jai is born, the one-stop shop for all government services swings into action. A local community midwife starts visiting Lyn every three days. Lyn's general practitioner opens an electronic health record for Jai. GSA had already started Lyn's maternity leave payments when she was 38 weeks pregnant; now family payments also begin. In the weeks after Jai's birth, Lyn gets a text message telling her where to get the infant immunised. She is offered advice for new parents, is linked by video to a local mothers' group and told about childcare facilities in her area. She is emailed Jai's birth certificate. Lyn does not have to register with multiple agencies or miss out on services. She only has to tell her story once and agencies from all levels of government combine to offer her an assistance package tailored to her needs. This scenario for government service delivery that puts people first was provided by Medicare to the Australian Public Service's advisory group on reform, of which I was a member. Making it a reality is central to our blueprint, released yesterday, for comprehensive changes in the public service. Ahead of the Game: Blueprint for Reform of Australian Government Administration advocates reforms to strengthen the public service across many areas. But it is in service delivery that these reforms, if accepted by government, are likeliest to directly affect our lives. Across many advanced democracies, governments are seeking to use information technology to change the way they provide services because it is the right thing to do, but also because citizens expect no less. From education to entertainment, health services to holidays, people have unprecedented choices and information. They are also well-educated and aware of their rights. And with ageing populations, demand for high-quality services will only grow. However, Australia lags behind many countries in this field. Too many Australians remain frustrated by having to use services that insist on multiple forms, offices, interviews and points of contact with the customer. Too few government agencies are using IT to connect their operations and to tailor their services to people's needs. More than one-third of submissions to the public service reform advisory group urged a more people-focused approach. Accordingly, our blueprint advocates that the public service devise a strategy to create citizen-centred services across all commonwealth agencies, and in partnership with services provided by state and local governments. It calls on the government to consider the introduction of a regular citizen survey that would solicit citizens' views on public services and collect ideas on how they could be improved. It argues government should do more to use the expertise of the 30,000 front-line workers in service delivery, one-fifth of the Australian Public Service workforce. Where the private and community sectors can deliver services more effectively than government, they should be enabled to do so. Critically, the blueprint argues that government uses IT not only to put citizens at the heart of service delivery but to give them a hand in service design. In 2008 the internet became the most common means by which Australians had contact with government. This contact is largely passive: receiving information, completing forms and so on. But in future government will be able to use the internet to directly tap the ideas of citizens. Going even further, our blueprint calls on government to consider making much more public sector information available online, so citizen groups and individuals can create new internet databases for public benefit. All of this would involve a small revolution in service delivery and it will not be easy for the public service to achieve. For one, it requires agencies to be more open with the public and with each other than they are today. But some agencies are already on the right road. By the end of this year, all human services agencies will have a single number and website for accessing their services. At least 20 government offices across Australia will provide a one-stop shop for the services of Centrelink, Medicare and other agencies. Centrelink's work with Victorian agencies during last year's bushfires provides a fine model of citizen-centred service delivery. This agenda represents an exciting opportunity for the public service. Many studies show that the experience people have of services strongly affects their view of government. If these services are delivered with an unfailing commitment to putting people first, Australians and Australian democracy can only benefit. Ann Sherry is the chief executive of Carnival Australia and a member of the advisory group on Australian Public Service reform. -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From wavey_one at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 14:01:49 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> Message-ID: <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Your price comparison is arguably artificial given that for the previous 5 years, up until about 9 months ago, the price comparison was over $2, and up to to $2.50. From memory the New York Times is US$5 on Sundays. So Australian newspapers ARE cheap. As for the Metro in Europe being free, well, there are free newspapers in Australia too of the same quality. And of course, if Adelaide's citizens were so unimpressed with their newspapers, there would be some willing entrepreneur who could start another paper. Or Fairfax. Oops. Same deal really. And of course, there's no need to buy the Advertiser, or any other Murdoch newspaper. As you keep saying, there is news for free online. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 1:35:37 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/30, at 9:47 AM, David Goldstein wrote: > You complain > of Adelaide's newspapers, but why is Adelaide any? > different to > say, Sydney or Melbourne? Sydney and Melbourne have 2? > shoddy > newspapers each, Adelaide has one. Big deal. And everyone has? > > access to the ABC and The Australian. Adelaide only has newspapers owned > by the US citizen. > It doesn't help that Australian newspapers are > cheap compared to? > their American or British > counterparts. What an odd thing to say.? Can you back that up with > any actual? facts?? The Times is ?1 (1 pound) = AU$1.60, is that a > lot more? expensive than Australian newspapers?? The Metro is > free.? There are? lots of free newspapers in Europe.? The big > ones are not that much? more expansive than here.? I don't know > about the US. > As for your "shoddy Murdoch tabloids", The Wall Street > Journal,? > Times and Sunday Times and The Australian don't fit in > this category. Yeah, you're right, calling them tabloids is technically > incorrect. > > David > > > > ----- > Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> To: Link list > <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >> Sent: Mon, 29 > March, 2010 10:26:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers > online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/29, at 9:48 PM, David > Goldstein wrote: > >> The problem >> with your view of > the future of news is verifying the >> source of >> the > news. > > I have that problem now with the mainstream media.? I > have >> always had > it.? It gets slightly worse after > watching >> Mediawatch.? If you don't > believe in the news > the big news >> organisations tell you then none of > that > verifying stuff makes much >> difference.? We clearly look at > the > world very differently. >> I agree to differ with your view > of these > things. > >> There's >> good evidence > that there will even be more unsubstantiated >> news >> than > there is now. > > There will be more news and so according to > Sturgeon's >> law there will > be more crud in at least the same > ratio. > >> As >> for the way you view news online, > well, that's one way. There are >> >> a number of > ways. >> >> And the introduction of the Times/Sunday > Times >> paywall is possibly >> Murdoch attempting to protect > his print >> empire, or part of the >> reason. And he's not > interested in people >> like you viewing his >> websites since > you view only one page and >> then disappear. > > Isn't > that better than not viewing that page? >> Perhaps not.? My > fear > for the future is that everywhere will >> become like > Adelaide - only > shoddy Murdoch run tabloids or newspapers >> of > similar quality.? Oh > wait, it's happening already, >> > aaaargh!!!!? And before you accuse me of > Murdoch bashing, > have >> you spent much time in Adelaide and read the > > newspapers >> there? > >> So media outlets, not just > News, want more committed >> viewers. > > And their answer > is to try and lock people into their site and >> only > their > site.? Good luck with that. > >> On the NYT >> > paywall, Times Select, I've already noted it was the >> > opinion >> columnists who defeated that since they were not happy > since >> very >> few were reading their columns. But they've > probably learnt >> >> lessons from last time. Maybe not > too. > > They could study the news sites >> that use a > paywall successfully.... > Hmmm... they probably >> > are. > > Still, like I said, if they're not part of the > conversation >> and > collaboration on the web they are not going > to get much >> interest. > >> And yes Ivan, I agree that > Alexa is not perfect. It's >> rankings are >> also skewed to > people interested in media or >> technology. >> >> > David >> >> >> >> ----- Original >> > Message ---- >>> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>> To: Link > list >> <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Mon, > 29 >> March, 2010 7:49:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] > Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On > 2010/Mar/29, at 6:33 PM, David >> Goldstein > wrote: >> >>> It's my >>> job/business to > know >> what media is out there. >>> >>> As for > the free >>> >> websites, such as blogs, that provide > "news". Well, >>> there >> are >>> very few of > these who can afford to find >> > investigative >>> >>> journalism, the little that > happens now. >> There are none that, at > the >>> >>> extreme, can afford offices >> in a > diverse range of places like the >>> >>> New York Times > or >> BBC. >> >> The news doesn't have to end up > like >>> current >> news organisations.? > It >> doesn't have to be concentrated >>> >> > organisations like we have today that >> do it all.? Lots > of >> things >>> just fall off the news radar.? As > news >> online >> changes there may >>> be one > person reporting on one issue here, >> >> another there.? > There >>> may be reporters who are expert in their >> > own >> narrow fields. >>> People reporting on areas that > are simply >> not covered >> by MSM. >>> There are > news aggregators that are >> entirely > different >>> >> organisations.? Several > different >> aggregators aggregating >>> > different >> news in different >> > ways. >> >> People read news online very >>> > differently, I >> know I do.? I have >> interests that > don't match the >>> >> interests of most newspapers.? > I can >> tailor aggregators to >> get >>> > personalised news.? I remember a discussion >> years >> > ago about >>> newsagents.? We are moving towards that > although >> I >> think the >>> original idea is > somewhat like artificial >> intelligence - we >> won't > see >>> it as envisaged for a long >> time.? If news > sites opt out of >> the >>> web *conversation* >> > they will lose out. >> >>> Decent journalism has to > be >>> >> paid for. >> >> You keep saying > that but journalism may end up >> looking >>> > completely >> different on the web and the business >> model > will probably >>> be different >> too.? It doesn't > have >> to be anything like it used to >>> be.? If > you >> concentrate >> all that movement into one > organisation >>> you have a >> different >> kind > of access to advertising.? Advertising >>> itself > on >> the >> web is being aggregated by advertising > aggregators >>> >> (perhaps like >> > google). >> >>> And you seem to neglect that >> > the >>> vast majority of online news sites >>> > were >> originally >>> offline. >> >> No > I didn't forget that. >> Many of those sites tried >>> > paywalls too. >> >>> Or if >> not, they source > their news from somewhere like >>> Reuters, >> > AP, >>> AFP... looking at Alexa's list of top 20 news > sites >>> >> reflects this. >> >> I did > in fact mention this in my last >> > email. >> >>> >>> As for Murdoch and the > beginning of this >> thread, it began by > your >>> >>> incorrect assertion that The >> > Times and Sunday Times were not the >>> >>> first mass > market >> newspapers to put up such a paywall. >> >> > The NYT has >>> >> already had a paywall and ditched it so > no, the Times and >> the >> Sunday >>> Times were > not the first according to your >> > criteria. >> >>> href="> href="> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" > target=_blank > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 > >>> " >> target=_blank >>> > href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" > target=_blank > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >> >>> > " >>> target=_blank >>>>> href="> href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" > target=_blank > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 > >>>>> " >> target=_blank >>> > href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1" > target=_blank > >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/business/media/18times.html?_r=1 >> >> > Times >>> to Stop Charging for Parts of Its Web Site >> > By >> RICHARD >>> P?REZ-PE?A >> Published: > September 18, 2007 >> The >> New York Times will > stop >>> charging for access to parts of its >> > Web >> site, effective at midnight >>> > tonight. >> >> >> Skip to next paragraph >> > Related A Letter to Readers About >>> >> TimesSelect What > the Blogs are Saying >> The move comes two years to the >> > day >>> after The Times began the >> subscription > program, >> TimesSelect, which has >>> charged $49.95 a > year, or >> $7.95 a >> month, for online access to the > work >>> of its columnists and >> to >> the > newspaper?s archives. TimesSelect has >>> been free to >> > print >> subscribers to The Times and to some students > and >>> >> educators. >> >>> Which I > corrected. >> >> Which you gave >> > your >>> opinion.? One with which I do not happen > to >> agree. >> >>> As for my >>> > interest, just correcting the >> inaccuracies in one of >>> > several >>> online issues that I have >> followed for quite > a while now. It >>> >>> could even have an >> > impact on my business. >>> >>> If you want to > start >> a >>> discussion on journalism, even the quality > of >>> it in >> Australia, >>> feel free and if > it's interesting I'll >> contribute. >> >> You > go >>> >> > first. >> >>> >>> > David >>> >>> >>> >> ----- Original > Message >>> ---- >>>> From: Kim Holburn >> > <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">>? >> > ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>>> To: > Link >> list >>> <> href="mailto:> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">>? > >>> ymailto="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au" >> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au> >>>> Sent: > Mon, >> 29 >>> March, 2010 5:40:40 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [LINK] >> Newspapers >>> > online >>>> >>>> >>> On >> > 2010/Mar/29, at 4:39 PM, David >>> Goldstein >> > wrote: >>> >>>> The Guardian >>>> > makes it as >> a >>> global paper as it gets more, or > very >>>> close >> to >>>> more, > of >>> its readers outside of the the UK than >> in the > UK. >>>> I >>>> >>> doubt any > non-English >> language newspapers would have > such >>> >> > online >>>> >>>> >> > readership. >>>> >>>> It's not >>> > really relevant >> as to whether a paywall >>>> will > work or >> not >>>> >>> though. And maybe a > division of global >> mass >>>> market and > national >>> mass >>>> market >> would be > relevant. >>> >>> I'm > not >>>> >>> >> sure I understand your > system of paragraph layouts.? I >> > guess >>> >>> on >>>> reading closely > that your >> second paragraph is about the things >>> > you >>>> >>> >> talk about in the > first. >>> >>> Grammar >>> >> > hint: >>>> href="> target=_blank >> href="> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank > >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph >>>> " > target=_blank >>> > target=_blank > >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" >>> >> > target=_blank >>>>>> target=_blank >> href="> href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph" target=_blank > >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph"? >>>>>> > target=_blank >>> > target=_blank >http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paragraph > : >>> >> Paragraph: >>> A passage in > text >>>> that is about a >> different subject > from >>> the >>> preceding text, marked >> > by >>>> commencing on a new >>> >> > line.... >>> >>>> Maybe you haven't noticed the > trend >> for >>>> >>> major quality > non-English >>>> >> newspapers to have an > online >>> English >>>> version as >> well? > This has grown >>>> in the last >>> couple of > years. >> It's >>>> the only way to get a > global >>>> >>> >> > readership. >>> >>> There's an > old >>>> >> joke: >>> Q: What > do >>> you call someone who speaks 3 >> languages? > A: >>>> trilingual. >>> Q: >>> What do > you >> call someone who speaks 2 languages? > A: >>>> >>> >> bilingual. >>> Q: > What do you call someone who speaks 1 >> language? >>> > A: >>>> American (or >>> >> > Australian). >>> >>> Would you even >>> know > if there >> were a >>>> major global Chinese or > Spanish >> or >>> >>> Russian news media > company that had >>>> >> no English >>> > presence? >>> >>>> Anyway, back to the >> > topic at hand, do I >>> think >>>> newspapers > will >> make >>>> money from online >>> > advertising? Not a lot. >> It >>>> won't pay for > the >>>> journalism. >>> I >> can't see any > other method on the >>>> horizon apart >> > from >>>> >>> paywalls. First The Times and > Sunday >> Times. >>>> The New York Times >>> > has >>>> said >> it will follow. Le Monde > is >>>> introducing one to >>> parts >> of > its >>>> newspaper. >>> >>> > You're >> assuming >>>> >>> that with a > disruptive technology like the >> internet >>> that the > old >>> media >>>> empires will >> > transition just like they are to the >>> new >>> > system. >> I >>>> really doubt it.? There are > already news >> sites >>> that are >>> > working >>>> and even making >> money online.? > Sites >>> that have never had nor >>> >> > will >>>> never have a print >>> >> > presence. >>> >>>> Once it gets to a critical > mass >> of >>>> >>> newspapers making their > content >>>> >> only available to > payers, >>> then >>>> they will in all >> > likelihood take off. >>> >>> Good >>> > dream.? You >> forget all >>>> the new online media > that won't go >>> >> down >>> that path.? > Pay is going >>>> to find it hard >> to >>> > compete with free. >>> >>>> The number of >> > online readers >>>> >>> will drop >> > dramatically, >>> >>> We agree on >> > this. >>> >>>> >>> but news > outlets >>>> >> seem unconcerned, or happy to wear > it, >>> about >>>> >> visitors who look > at >>>> one page and disappear. They >>> >> > want readers to >>>> >>>> >> > stay. >>>> >>>> So I'd >>> guess The > Times/Sunday >> Times are prepared to see a >>>> > huge >>> >> drop >>>> in casual readers and > see regular and paying >>> >> readers >>>> > stay. >>>> >>>> What will happen? >> Who > knows. >>> But journalism has to be paid >>>> > for >> and >>>> apart from the BBC >>> and > ABC who get their money >> from a >>>> licence > fee/ >>>> >>> government, and >> The > Guardian who can possibly sustain >>>> > losses >>> >> forever >>>> more, the loss of > print advertising income >> is >>> not >>>> > sustainable. >>> >>> The old >> "Journalism has > to be paid >>> for" argument. >>>> Except >> > in >>> traditional newspapers it's paid >>> for > by >> advertising. >>>> 55% (at least) >>> > of the actual >> articles >>> are from company > press >>>> releases.? In >> big > media >>> >>> companies they pass articles >> > around >>>> between papers and buy >>> > stories >>> >> from wire services.? Not that > much >>>> original >>> >> content > anyway.? Mostly >>> just bought or paid >> > for >>>> >>> content. >>> >>> > People said the >> same thing about encyclopaedias, and >>> > look - >>>> >> there's >>> one that doesn't > have to pay for content, is >>> >> free and > is >>>> fast >>> becoming, despite all the > catches, >> the >>> global standard >>>> > source. >>> >>> >> The internet is > infested >>> with "blogs" that are >> > effectively >>>> news >>> sites.? There > is >>> >> journalism aplenty.? Try > stopping >>>> it. >> > Actually >>> >>> that's what old media (read Murdoch and > others >> in >>>> Europe) are >>> > trying >>> to do with their >> attacks on google and search > sites >>>> >>> and >> > aggregators. >>> Trying to stop all the non-corporate > news >>> >> from >>>> getting publicity > and >>> access.? Expect lots >> more >>> > attacks on >>>> > google. >>> >>>> >> As for my views of > Murdoch. I >>> can't actually see how >> > they >>>> are >>>> relevant to the >>> > discussion >> here. >>> >>> This > discussion >>>> started with >> an >>> > article about an ongoing Murdoch >>> push.? You >> > are >>>> the one >>> who keeps on bringing him up and > telling >> us >>> that we > are >>>> >>> bashing him, so why don't >> > you tell us what you think, what >>> >>> > your >>>> >> interest in this is.? Let us > understand where you are >>> >> > coming >>>> >>> from.? I know it's easier to > criticise >> others >>> and then > side-step >>>> and >>> say we >> can't > criticise you because >>> you've never said what >> > you >>>> think. > > -- > Kim Holburn > > IT Network & >> Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408? > M: +61 404072753 > mailto:> ymailto="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net">> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> > aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> > request > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing > list >> href="mailto:> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">> ymailto="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au" > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> > href="> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" > target=_blank >>> > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing > list > > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim > Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: > +61 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 14:26:06 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:26:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:01 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Your price comparison is arguably artificial given that for the > previous 5 years, up until about 9 months ago, the price comparison > was over $2, and up to to $2.50. From memory the New York Times is US > $5 on Sundays. So Australian newspapers ARE cheap. Not in a major way. There's a difference between costs compared by a currency conversion and the costs as say a percentage of the average wage. Even a double the price I think you'll find newspaper costs are reasonably comparable. IAMAE (I'm not an economist) though. Actually Chinese papers are much cheaper by your yardstick. > As for the Metro in Europe being free, well, there are free > newspapers in Australia too of the same quality. By what metric do you measure quality? > And of course, if Adelaide's citizens were so unimpressed with their > newspapers, there would be some willing entrepreneur who could start > another paper. I know some people who tried. The incumbent paper reacted big time and they were frozen out of newsagents. > Or Fairfax. Oops. Same deal really. There's a reason we're not seeing new major daily newspapers being started. > And of course, there's no need to buy the Advertiser, or any other > Murdoch newspaper. As you keep saying, there is news for free online. So far. And of course some people like the smell of the paper, the blackening of the fingers etc. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From wavey_one at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 14:50:34 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Quality newspapers - UK (Daily Telegraph, Times, Guardian, Independent, FT), US (New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), Australia (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), France (Le Monde)... to begin.?In the UK and Australia, well, that's it... the other countries there are other newspapers one could add. You say there are reasons there are no new newspapers, but then you say news outlets can't start because of incumbents. You say online is the way to go it seems. There's nothing to stop anyone starting a blog for news in Adelaide. You seem to think they are good enough. And of course Chinese newspapers will be cheaper. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 2:26:06 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:01 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Your price > comparison is arguably artificial given that for the? > previous 5 > years, up until about 9 months ago, the price comparison? > was over > $2, and up to to $2.50. From memory the New York Times is US > $5 on > Sundays. So Australian newspapers ARE cheap. Not in a major way.? > There's a difference between costs compared by a? currency conversion > and the costs as say a percentage of the average? wage.? Even a > double the price I think you'll find newspaper costs are? reasonably > comparable.? IAMAE (I'm not an economist) though.? Actually? > Chinese papers are much cheaper by your yardstick. > As for the > Metro in Europe being free, well, there are free? > newspapers in > Australia too of the same quality. By what metric do you measure > quality? > And of course, if Adelaide's citizens were so unimpressed > with their? > newspapers, there would be some willing entrepreneur > who could start? > another paper. I know some people who > tried.? The incumbent paper reacted big time? and they were frozen > out of newsagents. > Or Fairfax. Oops. Same deal > really. There's a reason we're not seeing new major daily newspapers > being? started. > And of course, there's no need to buy the > Advertiser, or any other? > Murdoch newspaper. As you keep saying, > there is news for free online. So far.? And of course some > people like the smell of the paper, the? blackening of the fingers > etc. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 > 2 61402408? M: +61 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From foconnor at ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 30 15:00:41 2010 From: foconnor at ozemail.com.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:00:41 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google Message-ID: True to form, Conroy basically tries to bully anyone who disagrees with him .... but he's yet to try on the US government. Sad really - the only ones who were on Conroy's side were the filter purveyors (who stood to make a buck out of the deal and who have, of late, conceded that the filters probably will affect network performance) and a couple of groups of fundamentalist Christians (who's main argument now seems to be, "Yes, it will probably not work - but we must be seen to do something.") Of course the idea that internet users should be responsible for their own internet use (and that of their children), that user based filter packages will block better than ISP (or even further up the pipe based) packages, and that the idea of a 'public morality' went out with the Pelopponesian Wars doesn't hit him between the eyes. To Conroy internet filtering has become a 'cause' ... despite the best advice anyone has been able to give him. Regards, ---- http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/government-goes-to-war-with-google-over-net-censorship-20100330-r9bp.html Government goes to war with Google over net censorship ASHER MOSES March 30, 2010 - 1:15PM The Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy, has launched a stinging attack on Google and its credibility in response to the search giant's campaign against the government's internet filtering policy. In an interview on ABC Radio last night, Senator Conroy also said he was unaware of complaints the Obama administration said it had raised with the government over the policy. The government intends to introduce legislation within weeks forcing all ISPs to block a blacklist of "refused classification" websites for all Australians. Senator Conroy has said the blacklist will largely include deplorable content such as child pornography, bestiality material and instructions on crime, but a large and growing group of academics, technology companies and lobby groups say the scope of the filters is too broad and will not make a meaningful impact on internet safety for children. Google, which has recently been involved in a censorship spat with China, has been one of the filtering policy's harshest critics. It has identified a range of politically sensitive and innocuous material, such as sexual health discussions and discussions on euthanasia, which could be blocked by the filters. Last week, it said it had held discussions with users and parents around Australia and "the strong view from parents was that the government's proposal goes too far and would take away their freedom of choice around what information they and their children can access". Google also said implementing mandatory filtering across Australia's millions of internet users could "negatively impact user access speeds", while filtering material from high-volume sites such as Wikipedia, YouTube, Facebook and Twitter "appears not to be technologically possible as it would have such a serious impact on internet access". "We have a number of other concerns, including that filtering may give a false sense of security to parents, it could damage Australia's international reputation and it can be easily circumvented," Google wrote. On ABC Radio last night, the majority of callers were opposed to the filters and right before the end of the segment, Senator Conroy attacked Google over its privacy credentials. "Recently the founders of Google have got themselves into a little bit of trouble because notwithstanding their alleged 'do no evil' policy, they recently created something called Buzz, and there was a reaction, and people said well look aren't you publishing private information?," Senator Conroy said. "[Google CEO Eric] Schmidt said the following: 'If you have something that you don't want anyone to know maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place'. This is the founder of Google. He also said recently to Wall Street analysts, 'we love cash', so when people say, shouldn't we just leave it up to the Googles of this world to determine what the filtering policy should be...." Google said today it was surprised to hear Senator Conroy trying to "make this an issue about Google". "This is a debate about freedom of access to information for all Australians, an issue of national importance. Let's focus on that," Google said. Google's Buzz product added social networking features to Gmail but it caused a privacy uproar in February, with users complaining their contacts were being made public without their knowledge and that they had little control over who could follow their updates. Google quickly tweaked the service to allay these concerns. Google said the Schmidt quote referred to by Senator Conroy had been taken out of context. Furthermore, Senator Conroy incorrectly labeled Schmidt one of the founders of the company, when in fact he joined the company as its CEO in 2001. Opposition communications spokesman Tony Smith said it was Senator Conroy's "default position" to attack anyone that questions his policies. "Google should be able to express their opinion without being attacked by the Minister and having their motives questioned," he said. Senator Conroy also said he was not aware of the US State Department contacting his office or that of the Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, over the internet filters. This contradicts a statement made by a US State Department spokesman yesterday. "Our main message of course is that we remain committed to advancing the free flow of information which we view as vital to economic prosperity and preserving open societies globally," a U.S. State Department spokesman Michael Tran told The Associated Press. Tran declined to say when or at what level the U.S. State Department raised its concerns with Australia and declined to detail those concerns. "We don't discuss the details of specific diplomatic exchanges, but I can say that in the context of that ongoing relationship, we have raised our concerns on this matter with Australian officials," he added. Senator Conroy argues the he is only attempting to apply the same restrictions placed on the distribution of books, magazines, DVDs and other content to the internet. But critics say this approach fails to consider that the internet is a vastly different, dynamic medium. They say Senator Conroy's proposal is a heavy-handed measure that is easily bypassed by criminals and could restrict access to legal information. Senator Conroy has conceded that greater transparency is needed in terms of how content ends up on the blacklist, but last night he again refused to make the blacklist itself public, saying it would provide people instant access to the banned material. Whether the internet filtering policy is implemented depends largely on whether the Opposition supports or blocks the legislation. It has said it is waiting to see the government's legislation before stating a final position on the matter. "The Federal Coalition supports sensible and workable measures to protect children from inappropriate online content," said Smith. "However we are yet to be convinced that Labor's mandatory filtering plans will actually be effective or achieve the best results." From marghanita at ramin.com.au Tue Mar 30 15:09:35 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:09:35 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Oz: 'Hi-tech efficiency key to future service delivery' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB1797F.1030800@ramin.com.au> All I can say is in the brave new world, I hope the midwives visit mothers to be and the community nurses continue to check on the new mothers! The second parent seems to have disappeared, so, I hope the older child is safe with the Net Nanny. And..it would seem that one stop government portals may have had their day... > The best ideas are those that make you say ?I can?t believe we don?t already have this.? > > Today, I am happy to report a historic collaboration between industry, the health community and government to bring you something you can?t believe we don?t already have: a free (yes, free) mobile health service for pregnant women and new mothers giving them useful tips timed to their pregnancy or age of baby. > > The service is called text4baby, and it is an educational program of the National Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies Coalition. Also from 1998: Cloud Computing anyone? > The timeshared systems of the seventies provided access > to expensive resources for compute intensive applications. > Internet based systems have the potential to integrate > business systems across enterprises. Marghanita Roger Clarke wrote: > [A report came out yesterday: > > [AGRAGA (2010) 'Ahead of the Game: Blueprint for Reform of > Australian Government Administration' Advisory Group on Reform of > Australian Government Administration, Canberra, 29 March 2010, at > http://www.dpmc.gov.au/publications/aga_reform/aga_reform_blueprint/index.cfm > > [Declaration 2: Based on an amount of consultancy work in the area, > conducted with colleagues, I published this: > > Electronic Services Delivery: From Brochure-Ware to Entry Points > http://www.rogerclarke.com/EC/ESD.html > > [That was written in late 1998, i.e. over 11 years ago. > > [Could it be that the last 15 years of promise has been undermined by > the arrogance of public servants, who have wanted to foist their > conception of how the world should work onto a public that is not > enthusiastic about being treated as cogs in the public service wheel? > > > A local community midwife starts visiting Lyn every three days. Lyn's > general practitioner opens an electronic health record for Jai. GSA > had already started Lyn's maternity leave payments when she was 38 > weeks pregnant; now family payments also begin. > > In the weeks after Jai's birth, Lyn gets a text message telling her > where to get the infant immunised. She is offered advice for new > parents, is linked by video to a local mothers' group and told about > childcare facilities in her area. She is emailed Jai's birth > certificate. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From stil at stilgherrian.com Tue Mar 30 15:14:32 2010 From: stil at stilgherrian.com (Stilgherrian) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:14:32 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> On 30/03/2010, at 3:00 PM, Frank O'Connor wrote: > To Conroy internet filtering has become a 'cause' ... despite the > best advice anyone has been able to give him. But is it necessarily Conroy's cause, or that he's doing his job as Minister to implement government policy? Where does the pressure come from, eh? :) I am not at all convinced that the policy is Conroy's per se, or if it is, that it was his idea as opposed to someone else's idea agreed to in exchange for something else. Stil -- Stilgherrian http://stilgherrian.com/ Internet, IT and Media Consulting, Sydney, Australia mobile +61 407 623 600 fax +61 2 8569 2006 Twitter: stilgherrian Skype: stilgherrian ABN 25 231 641 421 From ivan at itrundle.com Tue Mar 30 15:28:06 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:28:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net! > <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2F1FDD89-6649-4776-8482-786993437052@itrundle.com> On 30/03/2010, at 2:50 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Quality newspapers - UK (Daily Telegraph, Times, Guardian, Independent, FT), US (New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), Australia (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), France (Le Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, that's it... the other countries there are other newspapers one could add. Russian papers not listed? Even though some have the world's largest circulation? Pravda, Izvestia, Trud, Komsomolskaya Pravda, and the other 8000 or so... And speaking of Russia, Alexander Lebedev's ?1 purchase of the Independent (following on the coattails of buying the Evening Standard for the same amount earlier) suggests that there are wildly different business models possible to sustain newspaper production. He is obviously about to come head-to-head with Murdoch's world view, which will be interesting to watch. iT From wavey_one at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 15:44:38 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <2F1FDD89-6649-4776-8482-786993437052@itrundle.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net! > <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <2F1FDD89-6649-4776-8482-786993437052@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <124953.79267.qm@web113210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Oh god, sometimes I wonder if people read... I listed some newspapers and then said "the other countries there are other newspapers one could?add." As for the former KGB agent Lebedev's purchase of the Indy, there has been much speculation as to what he will do. Nobody knows for sure, except he's unlikely to make it free like he did with The Evening Standard. The paper was so cheap because it is broke and is losing bucketloads of money. How he will come "head-to-head with Murdoch's world view" any more than any other national newspaper in the UK beats me. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ivan Trundle > To: Link list > Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 3:28:06 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 30/03/2010, at 2:50 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Quality > newspapers - UK (Daily Telegraph, Times, Guardian, Independent, FT), US (New > York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), Australia (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, > Frankfurter Zeitung), France (Le Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, > well, that's it... the other countries there are other newspapers one could > add. Russian papers not listed? Even though some have the world's largest > circulation? Pravda, Izvestia, Trud, Komsomolskaya Pravda, and the other 8000 or > so... And speaking of Russia, Alexander Lebedev's ?1 purchase of the > Independent (following on the coattails of buying the Evening Standard for the > same amount earlier) suggests that there are wildly different business models > possible to sustain newspaper production. He is obviously about to come > head-to-head with Murdoch's world view, which will be interesting to > watch. iT _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From foconnor at ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 30 15:48:31 2010 From: foconnor at ozemail.com.au (Frank O'Connor) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:48:31 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> References: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: At 3:14 PM +1100 30/3/10, Stilgherrian wrote: >On 30/03/2010, at 3:00 PM, Frank O'Connor wrote: >> To Conroy internet filtering has become a 'cause' ... despite the >> best advice anyone has been able to give him. > >But is it necessarily Conroy's cause, or that he's doing his job as >Minister to implement government policy? Where does the pressure >come from, eh? :) > >I am not at all convinced that the policy is Conroy's per se, or if >it is, that it was his idea as opposed to someone else's idea agreed >to in exchange for something else. > Oh it's political alright ... I mean the government worked like hell to get the right wing Christian vote in the last election - but Conroy's style of politics is far from pragmatic. This is the guy who's the chief head-kicker of the Right in the Victorian Labour Party. This is the guy who has been involved in all mannee of nefarious politics in Victoria. This is a guy who has a name for taking no prisoners. Problem is that he won't back down. I don't think he constitutionally capable of backing down. Not in the face of reason. Not in the face of democracy and pluralism. Not in the face of the common weal. Not in the face of toddlers being fed into meat grinders. (Hell, there are some who think he's actually do the grinding, if there was something in it for him.) This is a bloke who is only border-line rational. This is someone who was weaned on politics and other questionable pursuits from an early age. He has known nothing else. So yeah ... I blame Conroy for how this has developed. Regards, From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 15:50:06 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:50:06 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:50 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Quality newspapers - UK (Daily Telegraph, Times, Guardian, > Independent, FT), US (New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), > Australia (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), > France (Le Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, that's > it... the other countries there are other newspapers one could add. I didn't ask what newspapers you consider quality papers, I asked what metric do you use? Metric: A metric is a measure for quantitatively assessing, controlling or selecting a person, process, event, or institution, along with the procedures to carry out measurements and the procedures for the interpretation of the assessment in the light of previous or comparable assessments. In other words how would you measure this "quality"? Is there an objective way of measuring this or is it just your opinion? > You say there are reasons there are no new newspapers, yep. > but then you say news outlets can't start because of incumbents. yep - one of the reasons. > You say online is the way to go it seems. I don't think I actually said that and it's not necessarily true either. For instance there is the ..... Kindle! > There's nothing to stop anyone starting a blog for news in Adelaide. Lots of them. > You seem to think they are good enough. Sturgeon's Law still applies - 90% are crud. > And of course Chinese newspapers will be cheaper. ??? Because Chinese papers aren't as good quality? Gets back to your metric. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From wavey_one at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 16:05:20 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Since when is a metric required for discussion on Link? With the exception of Roger and Tom, there's very little evidence-based discussion here. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 3:50:06 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:50 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Quality > newspapers - UK (Daily Telegraph, Times, Guardian,? > Independent, > FT), US (New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ),? > Australia > (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung),? > France (Le > Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, that's? > it... > the other countries there are other newspapers one could add. I didn't > ask what newspapers you consider quality papers, I asked what? metric > do you use? Metric: A metric is a measure for quantitatively > assessing,? controlling or selecting a person, process, event, or > institution,? along with the procedures to carry out measurements and > the procedures? for the interpretation of the assessment in the light > of previous or? comparable assessments. In other words how would > you measure this "quality"?? Is there an? objective way of > measuring this or is it just your opinion? > You say there are reasons > there are no new newspapers, yep. > but then you say news > outlets can't start because of incumbents. yep - one of the > reasons. > You say online is the way to go it seems. I don't > think I actually said that and it's not necessarily true? either.? > For instance there is the ..... Kindle! > There's nothing to stop > anyone starting a blog for news in Adelaide. Lots of them. > > You seem to think they are good enough. Sturgeon's Law still applies - > 90% are crud. > And of course Chinese newspapers will be > cheaper. ??? Because Chinese papers aren't as good quality?? > Gets back to your? metric. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & > Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: +61 404072753 mailto:> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 30 16:44:58 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:44:58 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4BB10AD9.6070907@ozemail.com.au> <635bd2181003291605r4b87eb97y5b74ee78b55af5b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8kgklc$1drq6c@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> At 10:28 AM 30/03/2010, Ivan Trundle wrote: >As an aside, it would be interesting to discover who not only which >billionaires control which media markets in the world (Murdoch can't >be the only one), but to discover what 'influence' they have (in >terms of readership/viewers/etc). Ted Turner used to be one of them. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 30 16:39:03 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:39:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8kgklc$1drq64@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> At 03:00 PM 30/03/2010, Frank O'Connor wrote: >Senator Conroy has conceded that greater transparency is needed in >terms of how content ends up on the blacklist, but last night he >again refused to make the blacklist itself public, saying it would >provide people instant access to the banned material. This one was actually made ridiculous by a caller who pointed out that if the filters really worked 100% as Conroy claims, they could easily publish the list because the items would be blocked. So what's the harm? '-) Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From rick at praxis.com.au Tue Mar 30 17:23:40 2010 From: rick at praxis.com.au (Rick Welykochy) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:23:40 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <8kgklc$1drq64@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> References: <8kgklc$1drq64@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> Message-ID: <4BB198EC.5000502@praxis.com.au> Jan Whitaker wrote: >> Senator Conroy has conceded that greater transparency is needed in >> terms of how content ends up on the blacklist, but last night he >> again refused to make the blacklist itself public, saying it would >> provide people instant access to the banned material. > > This one was actually made ridiculous by a caller who pointed out > that if the filters really worked 100% as Conroy claims, they could > easily publish the list because the items would be blocked. So what's > the harm? '-) This thought crossed my mind until a fellow from EFF spoke and mentioned he agrees with the secrecy. I thought further ... if the list is public it would allow the following: (*) those in Australia who know how to bypass the filters (of which there will be many) could use/abuse the list; (*) outside of Australia, the list would be used by those interested in breaking the law for a number of reasons. I am not happy at all with the filtering proposal, for reasons obvious to those who support a free and open democracy. If the filter legislation is rammed through parliament, there must be a mechanism to find out if a given site is block when it becomes apparent there has been a mistake or some sort of unwarranted interference. Without that safeguard, we have truly lost a basic democratic freedom. But! One can always find out if a site is blocked by comparing access through the filter and access via a proxy through another country. Hmmmmm .... good idea for a web-based Australian Filter Check Service :) e.g. Enter suspect URL here: [ ] result: yup, that site is blocked in Australia or nope, fine. Probably a few lines of script. cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Hofstadter's Law. "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law." From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 30 18:57:03 2010 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (Richard Chirgwin) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:57:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] On the topic of media quality... Message-ID: <4BB1AECF.9000106@ozemail.com.au> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/henry-blodget/new-york-times-apologizes_b_516865.html This is certainly something that a "quality" newspaper should not agree to ... RC From jwhit at melbpc.org.au Tue Mar 30 19:25:30 2010 From: jwhit at melbpc.org.au (Jan Whitaker) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:25:30 +1100 Subject: [LINK] On the topic of media quality... In-Reply-To: <4BB1AECF.9000106@ozemail.com.au> References: <4BB1AECF.9000106@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <8kgklc$1dtegc@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> At 06:57 PM 30/03/2010, Richard Chirgwin wrote: >http://www.huffingtonpost.com/henry-blodget/new-york-times-apologizes_b_516865.html > >This is certainly something that a "quality" newspaper should not agree >to ... "We don't mean to be overly critical here, but we get tired of holier-than-thou mainstream media bellyaching about how only mainstream media can be trusted--when so much of the mainstream media game is granting control over coverage in exchange for access. Which certainly seems to have been the case here. " It certainly turns the idea of cash for comment on its head! I thought the money was supposed to flow the other way.... Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Tue Mar 30 20:26:03 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:26:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> References: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <4BB1C3AB.8080706@hunterlink.net.au> On 30/03/2010 3:14 PM, Stilgherrian wrote: > On 30/03/2010, at 3:00 PM, Frank O'Connor wrote: >> To Conroy internet filtering has become a 'cause' ... despite the >> best advice anyone has been able to give him. > > But is it necessarily Conroy's cause, or that he's doing his job as > Minister to implement government policy? Where does the pressure come > from, eh? :) > > I am not at all convinced that the policy is Conroy's per se, or if it > is, that it was his idea as opposed to someone else's idea agreed to > in exchange for something else. > ... Where the filter is concerned, I reckon Conroy is channelling Kevin Rudd. For me, the PM's abnormal reaction to the Bill Henson images exemplifies the problem. He was reported to have characterised as "revolting" images which the Classification Board's PG rating indicates would not normally offend. -- David Boxall | In a hierarchical organization, | the higher the level, http://david.boxall.id.au | the greater the confusion. | --Dow's Law. From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 22:46:53 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:46:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] =?windows-1252?q?Tech_Secrets=3A_21_Things_=27They=27_Don?= =?windows-1252?q?=92t_Want_You_to_Know?= Message-ID: Some interesting things http://www.pcworld.com/article/191312/tech_facts_they_dont_want_you_to_know.html > Tech Secrets: 21 Things 'They' Don?t Want You to Know > > Your ISP Is a Copyright Cop > Cell Phones Don't Crash Airplanes > 'Private' or 'Incognito' Browsing...Isn't > You're Spending Too Much on Printer Ink > End User License Agreements May Not Be Enforceable > The Cyberwar Is Heating Up (and Uncle Sam Is Losing) > Google Could Rat You Out > Pacemakers and Other Implants Can Be Hacked > Your PC May Be Killing You > Antivirus Software Won't Protect You > Your Cell Phone Is a Homing Beacon > A 'Cheap' Smartphone Is a Rip-Off > Your Webcam May Be Watching You > Your Boss Can (and Probably Does) Monitor Your Computer > You Can Fight the RIAA and Win > Your Passport Could Make You a Target for Crime--Wirelessly > The Social Web Never Forgets > You Can Escape Almost Any Service Contract Without Penalties > The NSA Is Tapping Your Data Stream > Your Facebook Apps Are Spying on You > Your Geolocation Data Is Not Private -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 22:59:38 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:59:38 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <427148D1-9F71-4406-9267-A93B09CC81B6@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/30, at 3:00 PM, Frank O'Connor wrote: .... > http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/government-goes-to-war-with-google-over-net-censorship-20100330-r9bp.html > Government goes to war with Google over net censorship > ASHER MOSES > March 30, 2010 - 1:15PM .... > Whether the internet filtering policy is implemented depends largely > on whether the Opposition supports or blocks the legislation. It has > said it is waiting to see the government's legislation before stating > a final position on the matter. > > "The Federal Coalition supports sensible and workable measures to > protect children from inappropriate online content," said Smith. > > "However we are yet to be convinced that Labor's mandatory filtering > plans will actually be effective or achieve the best results." Hmmmm.... so it all hinges on the opposition! -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From kim at holburn.net Tue Mar 30 23:04:46 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:04:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/30, at 4:05 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Since when is a metric required for discussion on Link? With the > exception of Roger and Tom, there's very little evidence-based > discussion here. Good misdirection and ad hominem riposte. So basically your list of "quality" newspapers is based on your gut feeling, not any actual measurement of anything? Anybody could make up a list and why would it be any more or less valid than yours? > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 3:50:06 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:50 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> Quality >> newspapers - UK (Daily Telegraph, Times, Guardian, >> Independent, >> FT), US (New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), >> Australia >> (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), >> France (Le >> Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, that's >> it... >> the other countries there are other newspapers one could add. > > I didn't >> ask what newspapers you consider quality papers, I asked what > metric >> do you use? > > Metric: A metric is a measure for quantitatively >> assessing, > controlling or selecting a person, process, event, or >> institution, > along with the procedures to carry out measurements and >> the procedures > for the interpretation of the assessment in the light >> of previous or > comparable assessments. > > In other words how would >> you measure this "quality"? Is there an > objective way of >> measuring this or is it just your opinion? > -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au Wed Mar 31 10:44:19 2010 From: david.boxall at hunterlink.net.au (David Boxall) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:44:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <4BB198EC.5000502@praxis.com.au> References: <8kgklc$1drq64@ipmail04.adl6.internode.on.net> <4BB198EC.5000502@praxis.com.au> Message-ID: <4BB28CD3.9060508@hunterlink.net.au> On 30/03/2010 5:23 PM, Rick Welykochy wrote: > Jan Whitaker wrote: > >>> Senator Conroy has conceded that greater transparency is needed in >>> terms of how content ends up on the blacklist, but last night he >>> again refused to make the blacklist itself public, saying it would >>> provide people instant access to the banned material. >> >> This one was actually made ridiculous by a caller who pointed out >> that if the filters really worked 100% as Conroy claims, they could >> easily publish the list because the items would be blocked. So what's >> the harm? '-) > > This thought crossed my mind until a fellow from EFF spoke > and mentioned he agrees with the secrecy. I thought further ... > if the list is public it would allow the following: > > (*) those in Australia who know how to bypass the filters (of > which there will be many) could use/abuse the list; But Conroy says the filter is perfect, so don't you worry about that. > (*) outside of Australia, ... it's somebody else's problem. > ... If the > filter legislation is rammed through parliament, there must be a > mechanism to find out if a given site is block[ed] when it becomes > apparent there has been a mistake or some sort of unwarranted > interference. Without that safeguard, we have truly lost a basic > democratic freedom. > > But! One can always find out if a site is blocked by comparing > access through the filter and access via a proxy through another > country. Hmmmmm .... good idea for a web-based Australian Filter > Check Service :) > > e.g. > > Enter suspect URL here: [ ] > > result: yup, that site is blocked in Australia or nope, fine. > > Probably a few lines of script. > ... Excellent idea! Not only for us, though. Is that 404 error genuine? Is your government blocking access to information without informing you? These are questions that citizens in every nation should ask. These are questions that everyone needs to be able to answer. -- David Boxall | All that is required | for evil to prevail is http://david.boxall.id.au | for good men to do nothing. | -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) From Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au Wed Mar 31 11:05:19 2010 From: Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au (Roger Clarke) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:05:19 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Ars: US Congressmen ABuzz Message-ID: Lawmakers want Google to Buzz off over privacy concerns By Ryan Paul Arstechnica 30 March 2010 http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/lawmakers-want-google-to-buzz-off-over-privacy-concerns.ars Google's Buzz social networking service, which launched as part of Gmail in February, was met with considerable controversy. The service automatically transformed users' e-mail address books into public Buzz contact lists, creating the potential for sensitive information to be exposed without user consent. The Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) condemned Google's mismanagement of the service's rollout and lack of privacy safeguards. EPIC filed a complaint with the FTC, calling for the organization to review the matter. A bipartisan group of congressmen are the latest to join the chorus. In an open letter addressed to FTC chairman Jon Leibowitz, eleven members of the US House of Representatives called for an investigation of Buzz and closer scrutiny of Google's pending acquisition of mobile advertising company AdMob. "We are writing to express our concern over claims that Google's 'Google Buzz' social networking tool breaches online consumer privacy and trust. Due to the high number of individuals whose online privacy is affected by tools like this-either directly or indirectly-we feel that these claims warrant the Commission's review of Google's public disclosure of personal information of consumers through Google Buzz," the letter says. "We hope to be of assistance to you in finding constructive solutions to fill in the gaps that leave our online privacy vulnerable to unsolicited intrusion." The letter specifically highlights the contact list disclosure issue, but also raises questions about the implications of Google's advertising practices. The letter asks the FTC to determine if Google's acquisition of AdMob-and the resulting reduction in mobile advertising competition-will reduce incentives for the company to protect consumer privacy. Google took swift action to correct Buzz's privacy problems shortly after the controversy erupted. The automatic contact-following behavior was replaced with a system that recommends people to follow. The service's underlying functionality was also made more transparent and the mechanisms for disabling the service were improved. Although these changes have been broadly lauded as a step in the right direction, critics believe that Google needs to go further and make the service itself an opt-in offering. The forceful rollout of the service, and Google's move to inject it into Gmail as an unsolicited addition, are cited by EPIC and other privacy advocates as a serious breach of user trust. This view is shared by outgoing FTC Commissioner Pamela Jones Harbour, who criticized Google in a recent panel about Internet privacy. In Harbour's opinion, Google's "irresponsible" launch of Buzz is representative of the broader privacy and security issues that society faces with the emergence of cloud computing. She fears that questionable privacy practices will escalate if steps aren't taken now on behalf of consumers. "Consumer privacy cannot be run in beta," she reportedly said. As Google expands its reach into more corners of daily life, the company will face more stringent scrutiny. The Buzz privacy blunder, and the concerns that it has raised, have clearly penetrated the awareness of lawmakers and the policy community. Further reading * BusinessWeek (businessweek.com) http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-26/ftc-should-probe-google-buzz-over-privacy-lapses-lawmakers-say.html * Letter to the FTC (barrow.house.gov) http://barrow.house.gov/images/stories/Google_Buzz_Letter.pdf -- Roger Clarke http://www.rogerclarke.com/ Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA Tel: +61 2 6288 1472, and 6288 6916 mailto:Roger.Clarke at xamax.com.au http://www.xamax.com.au/ Visiting Professor in the Cyberspace Law & Policy Centre Uni of NSW Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University From wavey_one at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 11:28:55 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> Message-ID: <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Given you've been making outlandish statements with no metrics applied through all this discussion, I fail to see why I should have to justify myself with providing metrics on this one. Not one of your "claims" has any basis. In fact, your "claims" are mostly, if not totally, prejudiced garbage. David ----- Original Message ---- > From: Kim Holburn > To: Link list > Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 11:04:46 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 2010/Mar/30, at 4:05 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > Since when is > a metric required for discussion on Link? With the? > exception of > Roger and Tom, there's very little evidence-based? > discussion > here. Good misdirection and ad hominem riposte.? So basically your > list of? "quality" newspapers is based on your gut feeling, not any > actual? measurement of anything?? Anybody could make up a list and > why would? it be any more or less valid than yours? > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" > href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >> To: Link list > <> href="mailto:link at anu.edu.au">link at anu.edu.au> >> Sent: Tue, 30 > March, 2010 3:50:06 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers > online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:50 PM, David > Goldstein wrote: > >> Quality >> newspapers - UK (Daily > Telegraph, Times, Guardian, >> Independent, >> FT), US (New > York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), >> Australia >> > (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), >> France > (Le >> Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, > that's >> it... >> the other countries there are other > newspapers one could add. > > I didn't >> ask what > newspapers you consider quality papers, I asked what > metric >> > do you use? > > Metric: A metric is a measure for > quantitatively >> assessing, > controlling or selecting a person, > process, event, or >> institution, > along with the procedures to > carry out measurements and >> the procedures > for the > interpretation of the assessment in the light >> of previous or > > comparable assessments. > > In other words how would >> you > measure this "quality"?? Is there an > objective way of >> > measuring this or is it just your opinion? > -- Kim > Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408? M: > +61 404072753 mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? > aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on > request _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From sylvano at gnomon.com.au Wed Mar 31 11:48:15 2010 From: sylvano at gnomon.com.au (Sylvano) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:48:15 +1000 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A paper, Quantifying Newspaper Quality: "I Know It When I See It" analyses criteria and factors regarding quality newspapers. Different sets of criteria are reviewed and they some of their own research added into the mix as well. It is framed within the challenge of the cost vs quality nexus and profitability in the face of disruptive technologies. http://www.unc.edu/~pmeyer/Quality_Project/quantifying_newspaper_quality.pdf On Wed, March 31, 2010 10:28 am, David Goldstein wrote: > Given you've been making outlandish statements with no metrics applied > through all this discussion, I fail to see why I should have to justify > myself with providing metrics on this one. Not one of your "claims" has > any basis. In fact, your "claims" are mostly, if not totally, prejudiced > garbage. > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 11:04:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/30, at 4:05 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> Since when is >> a metric required for discussion on Link? With the? >> exception of >> Roger and Tom, there's very little evidence-based? >> discussion >> here. > > Good misdirection and ad hominem riposte.? So basically your >> list of? > "quality" newspapers is based on your gut feeling, not any >> actual? > measurement of anything?? Anybody could make up a list and >> why would? > it be any more or less valid than yours? > > >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>> To: Link list >> <> href="mailto:link at anu.edu.au">link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Tue, 30 >> March, 2010 3:50:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:50 PM, David >> Goldstein wrote: >> >>> Quality >>> newspapers - UK (Daily >> Telegraph, Times, Guardian, >>> Independent, >>> FT), US (New >> York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), >>> Australia >>> >> (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), >>> France >> (Le >>> Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, >> that's >>> it... >>> the other countries there are other >> newspapers one could add. >> >> I didn't >>> ask what >> newspapers you consider quality papers, I asked what >> metric >>> >> do you use? >> >> Metric: A metric is a measure for >> quantitatively >>> assessing, >> controlling or selecting a person, >> process, event, or >>> institution, >> along with the procedures to >> carry out measurements and >>> the procedures >> for the >> interpretation of the assessment in the light >>> of previous or >> >> comparable assessments. >> >> In other words how would >>> you >> measure this "quality"?? Is there an >> objective way of >>> >> measuring this or is it just your opinion? >> > > -- > Kim >> Holburn > IT Network & Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408? M: >> +61 404072753 > mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net? >> aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> request > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >> >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > From Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au Wed Mar 31 11:58:37 2010 From: Jim.Birch at dhhs.tas.gov.au (Birch, Jim) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:58:37 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> References: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> Message-ID: <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328D5@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> -----Original Message----- From: Stilgherrian >I am not at all convinced that the policy is Conroy's per se, or if it is, that it was his idea as opposed to someone else's idea agreed to in exchange for something else. It's not Conroy's policy, it's government policy that they took to the electorate last election, as I recall. Governments have a duty to institute policies they were elected on where circumstances permit. I'd be pretty confident that Rudd would be a firm supporter of filtering being a Christian with conservative social values. He won't be the only one. We haven't heard the "Liberals" decrying the filter, have we? The government is responding to public opinion (and fears). In general, the idea that any criminal/antisocial web site put up by anyone, anywhere, for any purpose, should be available in our childrens' bedrooms is wrong to most people. We can't rely on authorities in other countries to shut down nefarious sites. Neither can we rely on reputation as a means of control as we can - to some degree - with conventional local media. Most people would want at least some sites taken out even if they don't know how. There's disagreement about what to block, how much of a performance hit you're willing to take to achieve this, process transparency, and whether it would work at all, but the basic idea of that some level of media censorship is pretty common. This isn't meant to be a defence of Conroy's personality or methods. Jim CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER The information in this transmission may be confidential and/or protected by legal professional privilege, and is intended only for the person or persons to whom it is addressed. If you are not such a person, you are warned that any disclosure, copying or dissemination of the information is unauthorised. If you have received the transmission in error, please immediately contact this office by telephone, fax or email, to inform us of the error and to enable arrangements to be made for the destruction of the transmission, or its return at our cost. No liability is accepted for any unauthorised use of the information contained in this transmission. If the transmission contains advice, the advice is based on instructions in relation to, and is provided to the addressee in connection with, the matter mentioned above. Responsibility is not accepted for reliance upon it by any other person or for any other purpose. From ivan at itrundle.com Wed Mar 31 12:06:53 2010 From: ivan at itrundle.com (Ivan Trundle) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:06:53 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net! > <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D48145D-6713-453D-9613-E50AF76CF751@itrundle.com> On 31/03/2010, at 11:28 AM, David Goldstein wrote: > I fail to see why I should have to justify myself with providing metrics on this one. Not one of your "claims" has any basis. In fact, your "claims" are mostly, if not totally, prejudiced garbage. Linkers can hardly benefit from this kind of communication: the illogicality of the statement above is risible. It's useful/entertaining/informative to discuss and debate the issues surrounding online newspapers, but ad hominem abuse only contributes to the counter-effect of making the author look foolish, or at best, unhinged. iT From kauer at biplane.com.au Wed Mar 31 12:23:47 2010 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:23:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328D5@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> References: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328D5@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> Message-ID: <1269998627.923.464.camel@karl> On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 11:58 +1100, Birch, Jim wrote: > It's not Conroy's policy, it's government policy that they took to the > electorate last election, as I recall. Er - almost. What they took to the election was an opt-in arrangement, where ISPs would have to provide ISP-level filtering to those who wanted it. The plan has been all over the shop since the election, with Conroy and others using very loose language to describe what will actually be blocked, though he seems to have retreated now to "RC material". But one very important thing changed and has not been changed back - the arrangement will now be *mandatory* for users, not opt-in. That point alone makes it a VERY different plan to the one that was taken to the election. However, even were it opt-in, it would still be very, very bad for civil liberties. "Yes, we've bought a great big chain saw and fuelled it up, but don't worry, we have no intention of ever cutting down any trees. Trust us..." For a great summary of the up and downs, ins and outs and round abouts of the plan, see Irene Grahame's excellent work on libertus.net. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) +61-2-64957160 (h) http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob) GPG fingerprint: B386 7819 B227 2961 8301 C5A9 2EBC 754B CD97 0156 Old fingerprint: 07F3 1DF9 9D45 8BCD 7DD5 00CE 4A44 6A03 F43A 7DEF From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 31 12:54:46 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:54:46 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2451DE40-250D-4291-B801-5E3530C00DD3@holburn.net> Nice. Obviously people have been thinking about this. Has anyone done the work to apply it, I wonder? On 2010/Mar/31, at 11:48 AM, Sylvano wrote: > > A paper, Quantifying Newspaper Quality: "I Know It When I See It" > analyses > criteria and factors regarding quality newspapers. Different sets of > criteria are reviewed and they some of their own research added into > the > mix as well. It is framed within the challenge of the cost vs quality > nexus and profitability in the face of disruptive technologies. > > http://www.unc.edu/~pmeyer/Quality_Project/quantifying_newspaper_quality.pdf > > On Wed, March 31, 2010 10:28 am, David Goldstein wrote: >> Given you've been making outlandish statements with no metrics >> applied >> through all this discussion, I fail to see why I should have to >> justify >> myself with providing metrics on this one. Not one of your "claims" >> has >> any basis. In fact, your "claims" are mostly, if not totally, >> prejudiced >> garbage. >> >> David >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Kim Holburn >>> To: Link list >>> Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 11:04:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >>> >>> >> On 2010/Mar/30, at 4:05 PM, David Goldstein wrote: >> >>> Since when is >>> a metric required for discussion on Link? With the >>> exception of >>> Roger and Tom, there's very little evidence-based >>> discussion >>> here. >> >> Good misdirection and ad hominem riposte. So basically your >>> list of >> "quality" newspapers is based on your gut feeling, not any >>> actual >> measurement of anything? Anybody could make up a list and >>> why would >> it be any more or less valid than yours? >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >>> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>>> To: Link list >>> <> href="mailto:link at anu.edu.au">link at anu.edu.au> >>>> Sent: Tue, 30 >>> March, 2010 3:50:06 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >>> online >>>> >>>> >>> On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:50 PM, David >>> Goldstein wrote: >>> >>>> Quality >>>> newspapers - UK (Daily >>> Telegraph, Times, Guardian, >>>> Independent, >>>> FT), US (New >>> York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), >>>> Australia >>>> >>> (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), >>>> France >>> (Le >>>> Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, >>> that's >>>> it... >>>> the other countries there are other >>> newspapers one could add. >>> >>> I didn't >>>> ask what >>> newspapers you consider quality papers, I asked what >>> metric >>>> >>> do you use? >>> >>> Metric: A metric is a measure for >>> quantitatively >>>> assessing, >>> controlling or selecting a person, >>> process, event, or >>>> institution, >>> along with the procedures to >>> carry out measurements and >>>> the procedures >>> for the >>> interpretation of the assessment in the light >>>> of previous or >>> >>> comparable assessments. >>> >>> In other words how would >>>> you >>> measure this "quality"? Is there an >>> objective way of >>>> >>> measuring this or is it just your opinion? >>> >> >> -- >> Kim >>> Holburn >> IT Network & Security Consultant >> T: +61 2 61402408 M: >>> +61 404072753 >> mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >>> aim://kimholburn >> skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >>> request >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Link >>> mailing list >>> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >>> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Link mailing list >> Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link >> > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 31 13:00:03 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:00:03 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net> <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7BFA970C-A170-4DC9-877E-B00A5B87C23B@holburn.net> On 2010/Mar/31, at 11:28 AM, David Goldstein wrote: > Given you've been making outlandish statements with no metrics > applied through all this discussion, Maybe you're right. I'm not sure which claims you mean exactly but it's entirely possible. > I fail to see why I should have to justify myself with providing > metrics on this one. So you can show yourself to be provably right and take the high moral ground rather than doing what you accuse me of? > Not one of your "claims" has any basis. In fact, your "claims" are > mostly, if not totally, prejudiced garbage. I don't know why you bother replying to me. I don't think I would reply to someone like that. > > David > > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Kim Holburn >> To: Link list >> Sent: Tue, 30 March, 2010 11:04:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online >> >> > On 2010/Mar/30, at 4:05 PM, David Goldstein wrote: > >> Since when is >> a metric required for discussion on Link? With the >> exception of >> Roger and Tom, there's very little evidence-based >> discussion >> here. > > Good misdirection and ad hominem riposte. So basically your >> list of > "quality" newspapers is based on your gut feeling, not any >> actual > measurement of anything? Anybody could make up a list and >> why would > it be any more or less valid than yours? > > >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Kim Holburn <> ymailto="mailto:kim at holburn.net" >> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net> >>> To: Link list >> <> href="mailto:link at anu.edu.au">link at anu.edu.au> >>> Sent: Tue, 30 >> March, 2010 3:50:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers >> online >>> >>> >> On 2010/Mar/30, at 2:50 PM, David >> Goldstein wrote: >> >>> Quality >>> newspapers - UK (Daily >> Telegraph, Times, Guardian, >>> Independent, >>> FT), US (New >> York Times, Washington Post, WSJ), >>> Australia >>> >> (Australian), Germany (Die Zeit, Frankfurter Zeitung), >>> France >> (Le >>> Monde)... to begin. In the UK and Australia, well, >> that's >>> it... >>> the other countries there are other >> newspapers one could add. >> >> I didn't >>> ask what >> newspapers you consider quality papers, I asked what >> metric >>> >> do you use? >> >> Metric: A metric is a measure for >> quantitatively >>> assessing, >> controlling or selecting a person, >> process, event, or >>> institution, >> along with the procedures to >> carry out measurements and >>> the procedures >> for the >> interpretation of the assessment in the light >>> of previous or >> >> comparable assessments. >> >> In other words how would >>> you >> measure this "quality"? Is there an >> objective way of >>> >> measuring this or is it just your opinion? >> > > -- > Kim >> Holburn > IT Network & Security Consultant > T: +61 2 61402408 M: >> +61 404072753 > mailto:> href="mailto:kim at holburn.net">kim at holburn.net >> aim://kimholburn > skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on >> request > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link >> mailing list >> href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au >> href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank >>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 31 13:26:45 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 02:26:45 GMT Subject: [LINK] Clouds of Coal Message-ID: <20100331022645.62E49882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> "If considered as a country, global telecommunications and data centers behind the cloud would have ranked fifth in the world for energy use in 2007, behind the United States, China, Russia and Japan .." Coal fuels much of internet 'cloud', says Greenpeace March 31, 2010 The 'cloud' of data which is becoming the heart of the internet is creating an all too real cloud of pollution as Facebook, Apple and others build data centers powered by coal, according to a new Greenpeace report. A Facebook facility will rely on a utility whose main fuel is coal, while Apple, expecting its Web-browser iPad launch on April 3, is building a data warehouse in a North Carolina region powered by coal, the environmental organisation said in the study to be released on Tuesday. "The last thing we need is for more cloud infrastructure to be built in places where it increases demand for dirty coal-fired power," concluded Greenpeace, which argues that web companies should be more careful about where they build and should lobby more in Washington, DC for clean energy. The growing pile of home movies, pictures and business data has ballooned beyond the capabilities of personal computers and even average corporate data centers, spurring the creation of massive server farms with tens of thousands of specialised machines that make up the "cloud". The report comes in the middle of a new federal debate whether to create caps or other measures to cut use of carbon-heavy fuels like coal and curb climate change. Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo and Google all have at least some centers with heavy use of coal power, said Greenpeace. The companies declined to give details of their data centres, but all said they considered the environment in business decisions, and most said they were aggressively pursuing efficiency. Cheap and plentiful, coal is the top fuel for US power plants, and its low cost versus alternative fuels makes it attractive, even in highly efficient data centers. Technology companies say they support the environment. Apple releases its carbon footprint, or how much greenhouse gases it produces, and Facebook said it chose the location for its center in order to use natural means to cool its machines. Microsoft said it aimed to maximise efficiency, and Google said it purchased carbon offsets - funding for projects which suck up carbon - for emissions, including at data centers. Yahoo, which is building a center near Buffalo, New York that Greenpeace saw as a model, will get energy from hydroelectric facilities, but the company said efficiency was the top goal, with a long narrow and tall building that looks like a "chicken coop" and promotes air circulation. Data center energy use already is huge, Greenpeace said. If considered as a country, global telecommunications and data centers behind the cloud would have ranked fifth in the world for energy use in 2007, behind the United States, China, Russia and Japan, it concluded. And the cloud may be the fastest growing portion of technology growth between now and 2020, said Greenpeace. The group based its findings on a mix of data including a federal review of fuels in US zip codes in 2005 and a 2008 study by the Climate Group and the Global e-Sustainability Initiative, which Greenpeace updated in part with US Environmental Protection Agency data. Reuters. -- Cheers, Stephen From kim at holburn.net Wed Mar 31 14:36:21 2010 From: kim at holburn.net (Kim Holburn) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:36:21 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Clouds of Coal In-Reply-To: <20100331022645.62E49882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> References: <20100331022645.62E49882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: You'd think that there would be offsets: like the tonnage of emails not sent as real letters, books or news read online instead of made out of trees and transported around the place, people skyping instead of going there, invoices sent electronically etc. Surely that would have some positive effect? On 2010/Mar/31, at 1:26 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > "If considered as a country, global telecommunications and data > centers > behind the cloud would have ranked fifth in the world for energy use > in > 2007, behind the United States, China, Russia and Japan .." > > > Coal fuels much of internet 'cloud', says Greenpeace > > March 31, 2010 > > > The 'cloud' of data which is becoming the heart of the internet is > creating an all too real cloud of pollution as Facebook, Apple and > others > build data centers powered by coal, according to a new Greenpeace > report. -- Kim Holburn IT Network & Security Consultant T: +61 2 61402408 M: +61 404072753 mailto:kim at holburn.net aim://kimholburn skype://kholburn - PGP Public Key on request From swilson at lockstep.com.au Wed Mar 31 15:01:34 2010 From: swilson at lockstep.com.au (Stephen Wilson) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:01:34 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Clouds of Coal In-Reply-To: References: <20100331022645.62E49882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4BB2C91E.6090009@lockstep.com.au> Further, I'd like to point out once again that computers don't release CO2: coal and gas fired power stations do. So while the "cloud would have ranked fifth in the world for energy use" it is not technically true that it is "creating an all too real cloud of pollution". Energy efficiency is important but not as important as clean power stations. Steve Wilson. Kim Holburn wrote: > You'd think that there would be offsets: like the tonnage of emails > not sent as real letters, books or news read online instead of made > out of trees and transported around the place, people skyping instead > of going there, invoices sent electronically etc. > > Surely that would have some positive effect? > > On 2010/Mar/31, at 1:26 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > >> "If considered as a country, global telecommunications and data >> centers >> behind the cloud would have ranked fifth in the world for energy use >> in >> 2007, behind the United States, China, Russia and Japan .." >> >> >> Coal fuels much of internet 'cloud', says Greenpeace >> >> March 31, 2010 >> >> >> The 'cloud' of data which is becoming the heart of the internet is >> creating an all too real cloud of pollution as Facebook, Apple and >> others >> build data centers powered by coal, according to a new Greenpeace >> report. > From wavey_one at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 15:10:01 2010 From: wavey_one at yahoo.com (David Goldstein) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <8D48145D-6713-453D-9613-E50AF76CF751@itrundle.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <843426.87700.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <934391.98070.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <39D34B28-0EEC-4715-BDA8-6424624554B8@itrundle.com> <70210.18900.qm@web113201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <417086.71190.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9432AF58-C68C-44CB-A0F4-EEF48B48A95C@holburn.net> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net! > <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8D48145D-6713-453D-9613-E50AF76CF751@itrundle.com> Message-ID: <742705.32429.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> So I'm expected to be the subject of this "ad hominem abuse" am I Ivan? Funny how if someone doesn't fit within the Link view then they are subject to different standards. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ivan Trundle > To: Link list > Sent: Wed, 31 March, 2010 12:06:53 PM > Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online > > On 31/03/2010, at 11:28 AM, David Goldstein wrote: > I fail to see > why I should have to justify myself with providing metrics on this one. Not one > of your "claims" has any basis. In fact, your "claims" are mostly, if not > totally, prejudiced garbage. Linkers can hardly benefit from this kind of > communication: the illogicality of the statement above is risible. It's > useful/entertaining/informative to discuss and debate the issues surrounding > online newspapers, but ad hominem abuse only contributes to the counter-effect > of making the author look foolish, or at best, > unhinged. iT _______________________________________________ Link > mailing list > href="mailto:Link at mailman.anu.edu.au">Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > href="http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link" target=_blank > >http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Wed Mar 31 15:31:10 2010 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (Richard Chirgwin) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:31:10 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Clouds of Coal In-Reply-To: References: <20100331022645.62E49882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Message-ID: <4BB2D00E.8030409@ozemail.com.au> Kim Holburn wrote: > You'd think that there would be offsets: like the tonnage of emails > not sent as real letters, books or news read online instead of made > out of trees and transported around the place, people skyping instead > of going there, invoices sent electronically etc. > > Surely that would have some positive effect? > Only maybe. The IT industry has been very good at making people believe fuzzy nice things about it with the right sloganeering, and the "dead trees" line is probably the best example of this that exists. The only moderately rigorous analyses I've ever seen of "dead trees versus Internet publishing" (I sent to Link last year, I think) were at best equivocal; pulping dead trees is at worst marginally more damaging than burning dead fossils. It may even be that dead trees have a lower carbon footprint than the newspaper Web presence; and of course a significant proportion of Australian newsprint is not a dead tree but a dead newspaper. Regarding e-mail and letters, the actual carbon footprint of a single letter would anyway have to be vanishingly small (as is the carbon footprint of a single e-mail) - but without analysis, I don't think "e-mail is less polluting than snail mail" is a safe assumption. As for "skyping instead of going there", it doesn't stand up to analysis. The state of the economy has vastly more impact on individual's use of air travel than the state of the communications network; until the GFC, air miles were still growing. So, Kim, I'm deeply sceptical of the worth of the offsets. The industry likes to paint itself as green, but my feeling is that 90% of it is greenwash. Richard C > On 2010/Mar/31, at 1:26 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: > > >> "If considered as a country, global telecommunications and data >> centers >> behind the cloud would have ranked fifth in the world for energy use >> in >> 2007, behind the United States, China, Russia and Japan .." >> >> >> Coal fuels much of internet 'cloud', says Greenpeace >> >> March 31, 2010 >> >> >> The 'cloud' of data which is becoming the heart of the internet is >> creating an all too real cloud of pollution as Facebook, Apple and >> others >> build data centers powered by coal, according to a new Greenpeace >> report. >> > > From jwhit at janwhitaker.com Wed Mar 31 16:00:54 2010 From: jwhit at janwhitaker.com (Jan Whitaker) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:00:54 +1100 Subject: [LINK] some patent sanity Message-ID: <8kdreu$46g8ce@ipmail06.adl6.internode.on.net> US court rejects patents on human genes http://www.theage.com.au/national/us-court-rejects-patents-on-human-genes-20100330-rbie.html BRIDIE SMITH March 31, 2010 A LANDMARK judgment handed down in the US this week on the contentious practice of patenting human genes is expected to send a message to Australian policymakers. An Australian inquiry is considering whether to ban the granting of patent monopolies here. Experts have welcomed a 156-page ruling, handed down in New York on Monday, which found that patents for breast and ovarian cancer genes should not have been awarded. The US decision, likely to be challenged, arrives as the Senate community affairs committee inquiry into gene patents prepares to release its report on the issue in June. More than 75 submissions have been received. In New York, in the first ruling of its kind, district court Judge Robert Sweet found the patents on human genes - considered the blueprints of life - were unlawful. Central to the case was whether naturally occurring genes that were recreated in the laboratory could be called an invention, and therefore patented. Judge Sweet's findings state that this was not enough. Researchers needed to demonstrate that the material had been modified sufficiently that it performed a new function. The ruling was welcome news for those urging the Australian government to update the patent law to prohibit the granting of patent monopolies, among them the Cancer Council, Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre and Australian National University patent law expert Luigi Palombi. [snip] Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jwhit at janwhitaker.com blog: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/ business: http://www.janwhitaker.com Our truest response to the irrationality of the world is to paint or sing or write, for only in such response do we find truth. ~Madeline L'Engle, writer _ __________________ _ From rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au Wed Mar 31 17:17:47 2010 From: rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au (Richard Chirgwin) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:17:47 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Clouds of Coal In-Reply-To: <4BB2D00E.8030409@ozemail.com.au> References: <20100331022645.62E49882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <4BB2D00E.8030409@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <4BB2E90B.1010403@ozemail.com.au> Ahhh, I found the study I was thinking of ... www.infra.kth.se/fms/pdf/Report_epaper_final.pdf Now, I don't pretend it's complete, accurate, perfect, or any such thing. But I think it demonstrates that we need more than just slogans to sustain the belief that the Internet is greener than reading newsprint or printing books. One other number. Until the GFC, passenger growth in airline travel worldwide was between 5% and 7% annually (2005, 2006 and 2007). So it doesn't seem the Internet was replacing travel (in fact, by helping drive down prices, it probably drove up miles). (Source: http://www.iata.org/pressroom/facts_figures/fact_sheets/) Skype replaces IDD, but I don't think it replaces much in the way of travel. RC Richard Chirgwin wrote: > Kim Holburn wrote: > >> You'd think that there would be offsets: like the tonnage of emails >> not sent as real letters, books or news read online instead of made >> out of trees and transported around the place, people skyping instead >> of going there, invoices sent electronically etc. >> >> Surely that would have some positive effect? >> >> > Only maybe. > > The IT industry has been very good at making people believe fuzzy nice > things about it with the right sloganeering, and the "dead trees" line > is probably the best example of this that exists. > > The only moderately rigorous analyses I've ever seen of "dead trees > versus Internet publishing" (I sent to Link last year, I think) were at > best equivocal; pulping dead trees is at worst marginally more damaging > than burning dead fossils. It may even be that dead trees have a lower > carbon footprint than the newspaper Web presence; and of course a > significant proportion of Australian newsprint is not a dead tree but a > dead newspaper. > > Regarding e-mail and letters, the actual carbon footprint of a single > letter would anyway have to be vanishingly small (as is the carbon > footprint of a single e-mail) - but without analysis, I don't think > "e-mail is less polluting than snail mail" is a safe assumption. > > As for "skyping instead of going there", it doesn't stand up to > analysis. The state of the economy has vastly more impact on > individual's use of air travel than the state of the communications > network; until the GFC, air miles were still growing. > > So, Kim, I'm deeply sceptical of the worth of the offsets. The industry > likes to paint itself as green, but my feeling is that 90% of it is > greenwash. > > Richard C > >> On 2010/Mar/31, at 1:26 PM, stephen at melbpc.org.au wrote: >> >> >> >>> "If considered as a country, global telecommunications and data >>> centers >>> behind the cloud would have ranked fifth in the world for energy use >>> in >>> 2007, behind the United States, China, Russia and Japan .." >>> >>> >>> Coal fuels much of internet 'cloud', says Greenpeace >>> >>> March 31, 2010 >>> >>> >>> The 'cloud' of data which is becoming the heart of the internet is >>> creating an all too real cloud of pollution as Facebook, Apple and >>> others >>> build data centers powered by coal, according to a new Greenpeace >>> report. >>> >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Link mailing list > Link at mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link > > From marghanita at ramin.com.au Wed Mar 31 17:19:56 2010 From: marghanita at ramin.com.au (Marghanita da Cruz) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:19:56 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Newspapers online In-Reply-To: <742705.32429.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100327012617.D6EE06B8@eagle.melbpc.org.au> <986522.56519.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <19FA88FA-2BC0-4869-B267-6F4803E51F5F@holburn.net> <39420.29058.qm@web113207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <320B974B-8927-48E5-9124-CCD634DC925C@holburn.net> <157011.45461.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <25013D5B-519E-437F-9473-86363B036CFC@holburn.net> <678361.36102.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <824396.80571.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <050356D3-370E-4290-A829-CBE1214D6BF7@holburn.net! > <520114.15254.qm@web113209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <233703.46586.qm@web113202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <357898.24118.qm@web113204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <80AC595C-74D0-4DDA-ABCD-B76C3E480FCB@holburn.net> <678500.12770.qm@web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <8D48145D-6713-453D-9613-E50AF76CF751@itrundle.com> <742705.32429.qm@web113214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BB2E98C.80102@ramin.com.au> Just came across the selection of newspapers available on Kindle. Includes the Times, US and UK versions. Marghanita -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 From marty at supine.com Wed Mar 31 18:47:08 2010 From: marty at supine.com (Martin Barry) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:47:08 +0200 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328D5@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> References: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328D5@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> Message-ID: <20100331074708.GA13961@merboo.mamista.net> $quoted_author = "Birch, Jim" ; > > It's not Conroy's policy, it's government policy that they took to the > electorate last election, as I recall. That's the issue though, what they took to the election and what they are proposing now are not one and the same. ALP senator Kate Lundy seems to grasp the issue that most of the public has with this "moving target": http://www.katelundy.com.au/2009/12/21/further-thoughts-on-the-filter/ Hence her support for an opt-in ISP level filter policy. http://www.katelundy.com.au/2010/02/02/q-and-a-from-my-thoughts-on-the-internet-filter/ "I do not believe a mandatory filter will achieve the policy goals stated and I agree that mandatory filtering creates an issue around free expression and business confidence. ... I believe that the best path forward is one of mandatory choice where as part of their normal interaction with an ISP all subscribers are provided information about filtering so they can make an informed choice (to filter or to not filter), and at that point we have a fantastic opportunity to provide further information and resources about general Internet safety best practices. This option ought to be changeable at any point and re-asked at subsequent service renewals." cheers Marty From brendansweb at optusnet.com.au Wed Mar 31 23:13:38 2010 From: brendansweb at optusnet.com.au (Brendan Scott) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:13:38 +1100 Subject: [LINK] Conroy vs Google In-Reply-To: <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328D5@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> References: <1B6A5B20-4B65-40AB-B52E-E3FA7CB19C18@stilgherrian.com> <364F8A332687114183CBB659DEF7D2333328D5@PSSBPR-EXCH03.health.local> Message-ID: <4BB33C72.6070800@optusnet.com.au> On 03/31/2010 11:58 AM, Birch, Jim wrote: > Most people would want at least some sites taken out even if they don't > know how. There's disagreement about what to block, how much of a > performance hit you're willing to take to achieve this, process > transparency, and whether it would work at all, but the basic idea of > that some level of media censorship is pretty common. Quite I have a mandatory filter in my router. It filters the following RC material: * disney * adobe * any link of the form *.swf I believe - without a skerrick of evidence mind you - that at least a not insubstantial portion of Australians don't want my filtering forced on them (they would, of course, be misguided if they thought this, as I would only do it for their own good). It is possible I am wrong on this... From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 31 23:47:34 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:47:34 GMT Subject: [LINK] Magnetic Waves & Morals Message-ID: <20100331124734.043E9882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> One wonders if those 'quality' headphones, with largish speaker magnets, might trigger the experimental effects recorded by these MIT researchers. Study: Magnetic Waves Alter Moral Compass MIT Researchers Find That Magnetic Pulses Directed at Brain Change People's Ability to Tell Right from Wrong By Alex Sundby, March 30, 2010 (CBS) A device that emits an invisible beam affecting a person's ability to tell right from wrong might sound like the kind of weapon a comic book villain would use to wreak havoc around the world. Scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology say such a device allowed them to observe the effects magnetic rays have on a person's sense of morality. In a new study, volunteers were subjected to magnetic pulses just above and behind of the right ear, focusing on the area of the brain believed to be the area controlling morality. The pulses were intended to block cell activity that contributed to the volunteers' sense of right and wrong. MIT's researchers explain the study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "You think of morality as being a really high-level behavior," Dr. Liane Young, the study's lead researcher, told the British Broadcasting Corporation. "To be able to apply a magnetic field to a specific brain region and change people's moral judgments is really astonishing." To see what effect a 500 millisecond magnetic pulse had, researchers gave the 20 volunteers a series of tests. In one test, the volunteers were given an ethical dilemma: should a man let his girlfriend walk across a bridge he knew wasn't safe? The volunteers based their answers on how the scenario played out. If the girlfriend crossed with bridge safely, the man wasn't at fault. The volunteers based their decision on the outcome of the dilemma, not the moral principle, because of the magnetic pulse, the researchers wrote. In another test, volunteers were exposed to 25 minutes of weak electric currents that prevent brain cells from functioning normally. They then had to read stories about morally questionable characters and judge whether the characters' actions caused harm. Researchers found that the volunteers accepted morally dubious actions that resulted in a "happy" ending. ?MMX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. -- Cheers, Stephen From stephen at melbpc.org.au Wed Mar 31 23:54:07 2010 From: stephen at melbpc.org.au (stephen at melbpc.org.au) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:54:07 GMT Subject: [LINK] digitaldueprocess.org Message-ID: <20100331125407.58CB6882@eagle.melbpc.org.au> Technology Coalition Seeks Stronger Privacy Laws By MIGUEL HELFT www.nytimes.com Published: March 30, 2010 SAN FRANCISCO ? A broad coalition of technology companies, including AT&T, Google and Microsoft, and advocacy groups from across the political spectrum said Tuesday that it would push Congress to strengthen online privacy laws to protect private digital information from government access. The group, calling itself the Digital Due Process coalition, said it wanted to ensure that as millions of people moved private documents from their filing cabinets and personal computers to the Web, those documents remained protected from easy access by law enforcement and other government authorities. The coalition, which includes the American Civil Liberties Union, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Center for Democracy and Technology, wants law enforcement agencies to use a search warrant approved by a judge or a magistrate rather than rely on a simple subpoena from a prosecutor to obtain a citizen?s online data. The group also said that it wanted to safeguard location-based information collected by cellphone companies and applications providers. Members of the group said that they would lobby Congress for an update to the current law, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which was written in 1986, nearly a decade before Internet use became mainstream. They acknowledged that some proposals were likely to face resistance from law enforcement agencies and the Obama administration. Under a proposed set of principles, law enforcement agencies or other government representatives would have to obtain a search warrant based on a showing of probable cause before they could obtain a person?s e-mail, photos or other electronic documents stored in a service like Gmail, Flickr or Facebook. Under current law, much of that information is accessible through a simple subpoena, which can be issued under looser rules. Obtaining access to information about where people are located or the places they have visited would be protected under the same standard. Currently, courts are divided on whether access to location information requires a warrant or a subpoena. Advocates of the changes said that the new rules were merely intended to ensure that protections that Americans have enjoyed in the past remain in place as technology evolves. ?The U.S. Constitution protects data in your home and on your PC very strongly,? said Mike Hintze, an associate general counsel at Microsoft. ?We don?t believe that the balance between privacy and law enforcement should be fundamentally turned on its head,? Mr. Hintze added, simply because people now choose to store documents online rather than in their homes. Members of the coalition acknowledged they would probably face resistance. This year, Justice Department lawyers argued in court that cellphone users had given up the expectation of privacy about their location by voluntarily giving that information to carriers. The coalition said it expected a long debate before Congress agrees to change the law. ?We are not expecting that these will be enacted this year,? said Jim Dempsey, vice president for public policy at the Center for Democracy and Technology. ?But it is time to begin the dialog.? Senator Patrick J. Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, said he welcomed the work of the coalition and planned to hold hearings on the issue. ?While the question of how best to balance privacy and security in the 21st century has no simple answer, what is clear is that our federal electronic privacy laws are woefully outdated,? he said in a statement. The coalition said that the new principles would not affect the access of private digital information for national security purposes. And they would not affect the use of personal information for commercial purposes, like marketing, a mounting source of concern among users. Some privacy advocates welcomed the proposals but said that they hoped that Congress would consider broader protections. ?We also need some consumer protections against private data being reused for commercial purposes,? said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. While some earlier coalitions between industry and advocacy groups have failed in their efforts to promote changes in privacy law, Digital Due Process is remarkable for its breadth. While it includes groups often affiliated with left-leaning causes, like the A.C.L.U. and the Electronic Frontier Foundation, it also has libertarian groups like the Progress and Freedom Foundation and the Competitive Enterprise Institute. The coalition includes rivals, like Google and AT&T, and court adversaries. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, for example, is involved in longstanding class-action lawsuit against AT&T over the company?s participation in a plan by the National Security Agency to monitor the private communications of consumers. Kevin Bankston, a senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said that members of the coalition disagreed on several issues, but he added, ?We can all agree that this area of the law needs to be updated to reflect changes in technology.? -- Cheers, Stephen