comments

Fri Dec 7 20:56:04 EST 2001

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-MIHALIC at anu.edu.au [mailto:owner-MIHALIC at anu.edu.au]On Behalf Of
BURTON John
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 12:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE: Exclamations!

bagaros: 1. exclamation (I don't have an example of this.  Can anyone
confirm this usage?) 2. good-for-nothing ("Tasol bagaros nogut i gat
strongpela tingting stret long maritim dispela kum katim meri.") 3. guy
("Tasol bagaros ya i painim wanpela diwai na wokim bet bilong tupela long
drip i go daun long wara.")

[My response is:]
I've heard baga・ as 2 Good-for nothing. But some Highlanders have told me
it can also mean hero・ baga ya i winim ol.・But bagaros・is new to me.

Donabeta!: Blast!  From the German Donnerwetter (M・lh舫sler, 1985b: 203).
"Literally, 'thunder-weather,' thunderstorm, Damn it!, I'll be damned!"
(Slone, 1995: 85)     Tick, but you'd be hard finding it.

[My response is:] I agree. Pretty obsolete, as are all these German-origin
words. But it would be good to keep them in the dictionary with an
appropriate marker, like "old". BTW may I suggest that any usage markers be
in simple English or Tok Pisin, i.e., "old" rather than "obsolete". That
will help grassroots people use the dictionary.

Donakail!: Blast! From the German Donnerkeil (M・lh舫sler, 1985b: 203).
"Literally, 'thunderbolt,' Damn it!, I'll be damned!" (Slone, 1995: 85)
Ditto

Dumekerl!: Stupid fool! From the German dummer Kerl, "dumb fellow"
(M・lh舫sler, 1985b: 203)  Ditto

Dumkop!: Idiot! From the German Dummkopf, "dumb-head" (M・lh舫sler, 1985b:
203)  Ditto, but current I believe in New Ireland/ENB. See Sweinera below.
[My response is:] Not with younger people in New Ireland.

Eh!      How do you spell it?
[My response is:] E! or Ei!

Note 1: New names of numbers (is this restricted to urban Tok Pisin?):
twenti, teti, foti, fifti, sisti (see Note 2), seventi, eiti, nainti
[My response is:] No, pretty common everywhere. I've heard these in villages
in New Ireland and EHP both.
KBS! / Kanaka bikpela samting!: "You should know!", You yokel, it's obvious!
(Smith, 1990: 283)     Transient

[My response is:] What will be done with words like this that are obviously
slang words, either current or pass・

Laik gutwan!: "You're putting on airs" (Smith, 1990: 282)     Transient?

[My response is:] Current, I think. Or am I showing my age?

Skin dai!: boring, hopeless (Smith, 1990: 283)     ?

[My response is:] Very current.  I hear it a lot.

Stail mangi!: "stylish young person" (Smith, 1990: 2 83)  Tick. However,
although it is common enough I don't go for the "mangi" spelling. What's
most common in Wantok?

[My response is:] Probably manki, but I have yet to see any Papua New
Guinean who spells it that way.

Yupela kaikai as kunai!: Exclamation referring to Highlanders (Strathern,
1975: 278; Strathern, 1990)
Note: Mosel (1980: 31) gives a more specific etymology for kunai as being
from the Tolai Language.     Obsolete, if ever widely heard. As tangket
would make sense, not as kunai except as an allusion.

[My response is:] In New Ireland I usually hear 塗et ston・for Highlanders.

Question: Are "donabeta", "donakai", "dumekerl", "dumkop", "haltmunt"
"papelu", "rintfi", "saise" and "stupit", "yakabor" archaic or are they
localized?     We can't tell without getting some blari PNGeans on board. I
keep emailing people but it's like getting blood out of a stone. THIS IS AN
ALL STATIONS CALL FOR PNGEANS TO GET INVOLVED. However, bear in mind that we
need old fogies not young whipper-snappers for these. (The whipper-snappers
can tell us about the new slang.)

[My response is:] stupit・I hear a lot (please don't embarrass me by asking
why I happen to hear it so much!) . The other ones are pretty archaic,
I think. I hope will still be included though, with an appropriate note.

****************************************
Craig Volker
volker at nalik.org
Fax / voicemail: USA 1-206-338-2559
Cell phone: JAPAN 090-1721-1226

???????????
????キ?????
*****************************************

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font size=3D4 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Century Gothic"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:3.5gd'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
owner-MIHALIC at anu.edu.au
[mailto:owner-MIHALIC at anu.edu.au]<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of
</span></b>BURTON John<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, November =
24, 2001
12:46 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Multiple recipients =
of list<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: =
Exclamations!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:3.5gd'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

bagaros:
1. exclamation (I don't have an example of this.&nbsp; Can anyone =
confirm this
usage?) 2. good-for-nothing (&quot;Tasol bagaros nogut i gat strongpela
tingting stret long maritim dispela kum katim meri.&quot;) 3. guy =
(&quot;Tasol
bagaros ya i painim wanpela diwai na wokim bet bilong tupela long drip i =
go
daun long wara.&quot;)&nbsp;</fo=
nt><o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.81gd;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:45.7pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Century Gothic"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>[My response =
is:] <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

I've heard =
&#8220;baga&#8221; &nbsp;as 2 Good-for nothing. But some
Highlanders have told me it can also mean &#8220;hero&#8221;. =
&#8220;Baga ya i winim ol.&#8221; But &#8220;bagaros&#8221;
is new to me.<o:p></o:p>

&nbsp; 
Donabeta!: Blast!&nbsp; From the German Donnerwetter (M=FChlh=E4usler, =
1985b: 203).
&quot;Literally, 'thunder-weather,' thunderstorm, Damn it!, I'll be
damned!&quot; (Slone, 1995: 85)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Tick, but you'd be hard =
finding
it.&nbsp; 
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> 
<![endif]><o:p></o:p>

[My response =
is:] I
agree. Pretty obsolete, as are all these German-origin =
words.<o:p></o:p>

Donakail!: Blast! From the German Donnerkeil (M=FChlh=E4usler, 1985b: =
203).
&quot;Literally, 'thunderbolt,' Damn it!, I'll be damned!&quot; (Slone, =
1995:
85)&nbsp; =
Ditto&nbsp; 
 
Dumekerl!: Stupid fool! From the German dummer Kerl, &quot;dumb =
fellow&quot;
(M=FChlh=E4usler, 1985b: 203)&nbsp;
Ditto&nbsp; 
 
Dumkop!: Idiot! From the German Dummkopf, &quot;dumb-head&quot; =
(M=FChlh=E4usler,
1985b: 203)&nbsp; Ditto, =
but current
I believe in New Ireland/ENB. See Sweinera below.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:45.7pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Century Gothic"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>[My response =
is:] Not
with younger people in New Ireland.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.81gd;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
Eh!</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;How
do you spell it?</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:45.7pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Century Gothic"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>[My response =
is:] E! or
Ei!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.81gd;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
Note 1: New names of numbers (is this restricted to urban Tok Pisin?): =
twenti,
teti, foti, fifti, sisti (see Note 2), seventi, eiti, =
nainti</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

[My response =
is:] No, pretty
common everywhere. I've heard these in villages in New Ireland and EHP =
both.<o:p></o:p>

KBS!
/ Kanaka bikpela samting!: &quot;You should know!&quot;, You yokel, it's
obvious! (Smith, 1990: 283)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;Transient&nbsp; 
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> 
<![endif]><o:p></o:p>

[My response =
is:] What
will be done with words like this that are obviously slang words, either =
current
or pass=E9? <o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.81gd;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
Laik gutwan!: &quot;You're putting on airs&quot; (Smith, 1990: =
282)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Transient?&nb=
sp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

[My response =
is:] Current,
I think. Or am I showing my age?<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.81gd;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
Skin dai!: boring, hopeless (Smith, 1990: 283)</span></font><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;?&nbsp;</span></font><fon=
t
color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

[My response =
is:] Very
current. &nbsp;I hear it a =
lot.<o:p></o:p>

Stail mangi!: &quot;stylish young person&quot; (Smith, 1990: =
2&nbsp;83)&nbsp; Tick. However, although it is common enough I don't =
go for
the &quot;mangi&quot; spelling. What's most common in =
Wantok? 
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> 
<![endif]><o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:45.7pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Century Gothic"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>[My response =
is:] Probably
manki, but I have yet to see any Papua New Guinean who spells it that =
way.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

Yupela kaikai as kunai!: Exclamation referring to Highlanders =
(Strathern, 1975:
278; Strathern, 1990) 
Note: Mosel (1980: 31) gives a more specific etymology for kunai as =
being from
the Tolai Language.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;Obsolete,
if ever widely heard. As tangket would make sense, not as kunai except =
as an
allusion.&nbsp; 
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> 
<![endif]><o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:45.7pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dnavy face=3D"Century Gothic"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'>[My response =
is:] In New
Ireland I usually hear &#8220;het ston&#8221; for =
Highlanders.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

Question: Are &quot;donabeta&quot;, &quot;donakai&quot;, =
&quot;dumekerl&quot;,
&quot;dumkop&quot;, &quot;haltmunt&quot; &quot;papelu&quot;,
&quot;rintfi&quot;, &quot;saise&quot; and &quot;stupit&quot;,
&quot;yakabor&quot; archaic or are they localized?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;We can't tell without =
getting
some blari PNGeans on board. I&nbsp;keep emailing&nbsp;people but it's =
like
getting blood out of a stone. THIS IS AN ALL STATIONS CALL FOR PNGEANS =
TO GET
INVOLVED. However, bear in mind that we need old fogies not young
whipper-snappers for these. (The whipper-snappers can tell us about the =
new
slang.)<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:3.81gd;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:
0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

[My response =
is:] &#8220;Stupit&#8221;
I hear a lot. The other ones are pretty archaic, I think. I hope will =
still be
included though, with an appropriate =
note.<o:p></o:p>

<pre style=3D'margin-left:3.81gd;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid =
blue 1.5pt;
padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'color:black'><br>
<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span></span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/pre></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>***********************************=
*****</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Craig =
Volker</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>volker at nalik.org =
</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Fax / voicemail: USA
1-206-338-2559</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:
navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Cell phone: JAPAN =
090-1721-1226</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy =
face=3D"&#65325;&#65331; &#26126;&#26397;"><span style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:navy'>&#12424;&#12429;&#12375;&#12367;&#12362;&#39000;&#1235=
6;&#12375;&#12414;&#12377;&#12290;</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy =
face=3D"&#65325;&#65331; &#26126;&#26397;"><span style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:navy'>&#12463;&#12524;&#12452;&#12464;&#12539;&#12501;&#1245=
7;&#12523;&#12459;&#12540;</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>***********************************=
******</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'><pre
style=3D'border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0cm;mso-padding-alt:
0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><span class=3DEmailStyle21><font size=3D4 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Century Gothic"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic"'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></pre=
></div>

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