From sgarling at coombs.anu.edu.au Fri Feb 1 11:39:57 2002 From: sgarling at coombs.anu.edu.au (Stephanie Garling) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:01 2003 Subject: Wok Message-ID: <200201312343.g0VNhf6P009215@cairo.anu.edu.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/private/mihalic/attachments/20020201/2ab9bebc/attachment.htm From john.burton at tsra.gov.au Fri Feb 1 10:47:56 2002 From: john.burton at tsra.gov.au (BURTON John) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: The completive Message-ID: > "Bin" (meaning "past perfect indicative") occurs in the first edition > of Murphy's Pidgin English book in 1945 (p. 27), so the "eminent > source" is clearly not correct. Sure. I was referring to the discussion in Rick Goulden's 'The Melanesian content in Tok Pisin' 1990. Pac. Ling. Ser B: 104 where he begins "In both Tok Pisin and Bislama there is evidence of a weakly established past tense marker 'bin'." I will come back with a longer discussion at another time, but the eminent sources (two of them actually) were none other than Tryon and Dutton, both of whom went for radio station announcer explanations. Because this sounds implausible, I didn't want to colour anyone's immediate reaction by mentioning Dutton and Tryon straightaway. John Burton From john.burton at tsra.gov.au Fri Feb 1 10:52:03 2002 From: john.burton at tsra.gov.au (BURTON John) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: Wok Message-ID: I haven't heard wok pain but wok painimaut is hard at work for sure. For example, at mining EL (Exploration Licence) hearings wok painimaut means geological exploration and is heavily emphasised to distinguish it from wok maining which is when the money is on (or so it is anticipated). Any kind of research or detection is wok painimaut. John Burton Another word (noun combo) I've heard a lot in NI missing on the "wok/wokim" entry is wok pain or wok painim (I think I've heard wok painimaut too), meaning analysis or investigation/research. e.g. "... bai i wokim dispela wok painim we i gat gold..." or "....kam bek long Tanga na wokim moa wokpain long ol samting blong graun...". Is this common? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/private/mihalic/attachments/20020201/28ea64de/attachment.htm From jrw6777 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 1 06:25:07 2002 From: jrw6777 at yahoo.com (John Wagner) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: Wok In-Reply-To: <200201312343.g0VNhf6P009215@cairo.anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <20020201132507.42182.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> In Lababia (Huon Gulf area) my research was routinely referred to by villagers as "wok painimaut". I never heard "wok pain" or wok painim" being used however. I'm not sure if "wok painimaut" is common in rural areas of the Huon Gulf or Morobe Province generally or whether its use came to Lababia by way of the Lae-based NGO that is facilitating the ICAD project in the village. They had commissioned a number of biodiversity studies before I arrived - those studies also being referred to either as "wok painimaut" or "rises". John Wagner --- Stephanie Garling wrote:

Another word (noun combo) I've heard a lot in NI missing on the "wok/wokim" entry is wok pain or wok painim (I think I've heard wok painimaut too), meaning analysis or investigation/research.
e.g. "... bai i wokim dispela wok painim we i gat gold..."
or "....kam bek long Tanga na wokim moa wokpain long ol samting blong graun...".
Is this common?

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From scaglion+ at pitt.edu Fri Feb 1 10:24:21 2002 From: scaglion+ at pitt.edu (Richard Scaglion) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: Wok In-Reply-To: <20020201132507.42182.qmail@web13206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3238146633.1012555461@scaglion.anthro.pitt.edu> > In Lababia (Huon Gulf area) my research was routinely > referred to by villagers as "wok painimaut". I never > heard "wok pain" or wok painim" being used however. In the East Sepik in the 1980s, I heard Provincial officials (sometimes when speaking on Radio East Sepik) refer to research studies as "wok painim." Rick From john.burton at tsra.gov.au Sat Feb 2 17:58:48 2002 From: john.burton at tsra.gov.au (BURTON John) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: Wokpain Message-ID: Perhaps this is the beauty of Tok Pisin, namely that none of the variations is intrinsically right but that talking public swills these things around in their mouths and either stabilises a main variant or let's things go on as they are with less used terminology. I think "wokpain" would win a wordsmith's elegance and simplicity award (and there was a fashion for this in the 1970s) but I haven't myself heard it in the wild. (I'd love to!) John Burton N.B. our IT trainee spent 2 hours on Friday trying to get me through our firewall - things are not quite right yet, but as soon as they are I will upgrade the web pages. > In Lababia (Huon Gulf area) my research was routinely > referred to by villagers as "wok painimaut". I never > heard "wok pain" or wok painim" being used however. > I'm not sure if "wok painimaut" is common in rural > areas of the Huon Gulf or Morobe Province generally or > whether its use came to Lababia by way of the > Lae-based NGO that is facilitating the ICAD project in > the village. They had commissioned a number of > biodiversity studies before I arrived - those studies > also being referred to either as "wok painimaut" or > "rises". From THSlone at yahoo.com Sat Feb 2 00:33:10 2002 From: THSlone at yahoo.com (Thomas H. Slone) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: Wokpain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is the only example that I have of wok pain from Wantok's Stori Tumbuna: "Olsem na taim em i wok painim we i stap em i subim han long het bilong em na kisim dispela bun bilong blakbokis." The author is from the Olo People, West Sepik Province. --Tom Slone >Perhaps this is the beauty of Tok Pisin, namely that none of the variations >is intrinsically right but that talking public swills these things around in >their mouths and either stabilises a main variant or let's things go on as >they are with less used terminology. > >I think "wokpain" would win a wordsmith's elegance and simplicity award (and >there was a fashion for this in the 1970s) but I haven't myself heard it in >the wild. (I'd love to!) > >John Burton > >N.B. our IT trainee spent 2 hours on Friday trying to get me through our >firewall - things are not quite right yet, but as soon as they are I will >upgrade the web pages. > >> In Lababia (Huon Gulf area) my research was routinely >> referred to by villagers as "wok painimaut". I never >> heard "wok pain" or wok painim" being used however. >> I'm not sure if "wok painimaut" is common in rural >> areas of the Huon Gulf or Morobe Province generally or >> whether its use came to Lababia by way of the >> Lae-based NGO that is facilitating the ICAD project in >> the village. They had commissioned a number of >> biodiversity studies before I arrived - those studies > > also being referred to either as "wok painimaut" or > > "rises". > -- From mva at lihir.com.pg Fri Feb 15 11:59:28 2002 From: mva at lihir.com.pg (Mesulam Aisoli) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: The completive Message-ID: <9387DD0B5F73D311B5EF0060943F11210165F863@LMCEXCH01> "bin" past continuous perfect tense, em i "bin" kam pinis na i go bek long haus. from english "been". Some coastal villages use it a lot in question form, eg: em i "bin" we? or ol i "bin" we or ol i kam we? (similarly). > ---------- > From: BURTON John[SMTP:john.burton@tsra.gov.au] > Sent: Friday, 1 February 2002 10:47am > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: RE: The completive > > > > "Bin" (meaning "past perfect indicative") occurs in the first edition > > of Murphy's Pidgin English book in 1945 (p. 27), so the "eminent > > source" is clearly not correct. > > Sure. I was referring to the discussion in Rick Goulden's 'The Melanesian > content in Tok Pisin' 1990. Pac. Ling. Ser B: 104 where he begins "In both > Tok Pisin and Bislama there is evidence of a weakly established past tense > marker 'bin'." > > I will come back with a longer discussion at another time, but the eminent > sources (two of them actually) were none other than Tryon and Dutton, both > of whom went for radio station announcer explanations. Because this sounds > implausible, I didn't want to colour anyone's immediate reaction by > mentioning Dutton and Tryon straightaway. > > John Burton > From mva at lihir.com.pg Fri Feb 15 12:28:16 2002 From: mva at lihir.com.pg (Mesulam Aisoli) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: The completive Message-ID: <9387DD0B5F73D311B5EF0060943F11210165F864@LMCEXCH01> There is a clear distinction between "bin" and "pinis" in the Pacific Pidgin English. "bin" indicates time and "pinis" describes a finished action. For instance, em i "bin" kam "pinis" na i go bek long haus. The verb "kam" or action taken to come has already been completed or "pinis" for english "finish". (used as past perfect tense in english). > ---------- > From: BURTON John[SMTP:john.burton@tsra.gov.au] > Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2002 6:29pm > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: The completive > > Mihalicers > > As everyone knows "pinis" expresses a completed action ("mi mekim pinis" > etc) as its cognates do in the other Pacific Pidgins. However, a bit of > uncertainty surrounds the use of "bin" ("mi bin mekim" etc). One eminent > source even attributes its spread to its use by English-speaking (Tolai) > radio announcers in the Rabaul area in the 1970s. > > I suggest this is groundless and that "bin" was present at the birth of > these pidgins in the 1840-60s. A clue is that "bin" is the usual > completive > marker in Torres Strait Creole. The earliest point at which this language > can have began to diverge was 1863 when William Banner started a > beche-de-mer station on Warrior (Tudu) Island, employing 70 South Sea > Islanders, all speakers of Pacific Pidgin English. By 1870, short > sentences > from local headmen are quoted in government reports and it is clear that > PPE > was in use in a stable form in the Torres Strait. Thus, "bin" in PPE's > local > successor, Torres Strait Creole, very likely dates to that period. > > What do list subscribers feel about "bin" in Tok Pisin? When is "bin" > preferred to "pinis"? > > John Burton > From mva at lihir.com.pg Fri Feb 15 12:50:24 2002 From: mva at lihir.com.pg (Mesulam Aisoli) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: Wok Message-ID: <9387DD0B5F73D311B5EF0060943F11210165F865@LMCEXCH01> "wokpainim", is the most recently used "tokpisin" by academics in PNG, especially for research work. Never known in 1950 - mid 1960. It is a two separate english words "work" and "find" so in Pidgin English becomes one word "wokpainim". Never heard of "wokpain" before. In the general use of the two words "wok" and "painim" by villagers, is common in many rural villages in the New Guinea Islands. Say for instance, if some one lost his or her knife and you come across him or her looking for it. In Tokpisin, you could ask, "yu wokim wanem?" in reply she/he could say, "mi "wok" long "painim" naip bilong mi, i lus aste". > ---------- > From: Richard Scaglion[SMTP:scaglion+@pitt.edu] > Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2002 1:24am > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Wok > > > > In Lababia (Huon Gulf area) my research was routinely > > referred to by villagers as "wok painimaut". I never > > heard "wok pain" or wok painim" being used however. > > In the East Sepik in the 1980s, I heard Provincial officials (sometimes > when speaking on Radio East Sepik) refer to research studies as "wok > painim." > > Rick > From john.burton at tsra.gov.au Tue Feb 19 10:07:33 2002 From: john.burton at tsra.gov.au (BURTON John) Date: Thu Mar 13 22:49:02 2003 Subject: The completive Message-ID: And Derek Scarr's edited volume of Giles' memoirs as a ship captain before 1877 have 'bin' in them. Ross Clark's 1979 article in Te Reo presumably has the earliest attestations he could find of this item in PPE. I can't check that particular article just now though. mm -- Miriam Meyerhoff Department of Theoretical and Applied Linguistics University of Edinburgh 40 George Square Edinburgh EH8 9LL Scotland, UK ph (131) 651-1836 fax (131) 650-3962 http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/~mhoff/ >> > Mihalicers >> >> > I suggest this is groundless and that "bin" was present at >> the birth of >> > these pidgins in the 1840-60s. A clue is that "bin" is the usual >> > completive >> > marker in Torres Strait Creole. The earliest point at >> which this language >> > can have began to diverge was 1863 when William Banner started a >> > beche-de-mer station on Warrior (Tudu) Island, employing >> 70 South Sea >> > Islanders, all speakers of Pacific Pidgin English. By 1870, short >> > sentences >> > from local headmen are quoted in government reports and it >> is clear that >> > PPE >> > was in use in a stable form in the Torres Strait. Thus, >> "bin" in PPE's >> > local >> > successor, Torres Strait Creole, very likely dates to that period. >>

--
>>
>> Miriam Meyerhoff
>> Department of Theoretical and Applied Linguistics
>> University of Edinburgh
>> 40 George Square
>> Edinburgh EH8 9LL
>> Scotland, UK
>>
>> ph (131) 651-1836
>> fax (131) 650-3962
>>
>> http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/~mhoff/