[LINK] The Ethics (!) of Dodgy Web Designers

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 02:14:33PM +1000, Karl Auer wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 12:44 +1000, Rick Welykochy wrote:
> > Same goes for a compiler. Use it to cimple all you want, but if you are
> > a compiler maintainer, you do need to know your stuff.
> 
> Good Lord, not at all. The more you know the better your stuff will be,
> theoretically, but if you've got the source and want to change it, go
> right ahead! Incompetence is no barrier at all, and nor should it be.

there's a difference between hacking something up for yourself and doing
it, for pay or otherwise, for others. competence and professionalism
and attention to detail are *mandatory* requirements for the latter,
optional (but highly recommended) for the former.

> > How many SQL-injection attacks have you heard about lately? They are
> > caused by kiddies "using" a database in an incorrect fashion.
> 
> Or perhaps people using a defective tool? How come that attack is even
> possible? Think about all the ways such attacks could be prevented -
> only one of them is the complicated and error prone method "educate the
> user".

his point was that the the tool is defective because it was written
by an incompetent. he's not blaming the user of the tool, rather the
clueless moron who released a crap tool written with little or no
understanding. 


> > science why the kiddies and amateurs should just stay away from programming
> > and implementation. Let them stay at the "user" level.
> 
> How totally elitist. "Get a degree or piss off", hey? Nice one.

it's not about having a degree, it's about having a clue.

lots of clueless people have degrees (e.g. i would never hire a
programmer who had only a degree and no experience), and lots of people
without degrees are seriously clued up. i.e. there is no correlation
between having a degree and having a clue.


> > it. Conversely not enough is spent on analysis, design and testing.
> > I say this from experience.
> 
> GIGO? Absolutely. But garbage is not useful. It will be weeded out the
> hard way, maybe, but it will be weeded out. Who cares? Only you.
> Everyone else moves on to something more useful.
> 
> > The literati in any field of endeavour will always cry foul when inexperienced
> > and untrained individuals attempt to do the same level of quality work and
> > fail, thereby bringing discredit and loathing to their profession.
> 
> Once again: Get used to it. No-one cares except the highly trained
> professionals who see their big salaries disappearing because tools are
> coming on line that anyone can use to produce the same level of
> usefulness as what the professionals produce. Faster, cheaper, more
> often and in a wide range of colours.

actually, not the same.  "Garbage In, Garbage Out", remember? you said
yourself that "garbage is not useful". the fact that you can choose to
have it in pink (or whatever colour you prefer) doesn't negate the fact
that it's garbage.


and don't get all hung up on big salaries and degrees or age or even
training. it's not about those things, it's about having a clue - which
is basically defined as bothering to make a real effort to understand
what you're working with. the clueless don't bother. the clueful do and
emerge with (at least some level of) understanding.



> > I am hardly outraged. Simply passionate about my field of work and pissed
> > off by incompetence.
> 
> Hm. "pissed off" sounds like a form of outrage to me, but maybe I'm
> being overly pedantic. Stay passionate, do good work, and the world will
> continue to beat a path to your door. Just don't embarrass yourself with
> pronouncements like "anyone who doesn't know what ACID is should not be
> allowed within striking distance of a database".

or YOU could avoid embarassing yourself by, in future, not taking
obvious hyperbole at literal face-value.

craig

-- 
craig sanders <cas at taz.net.au>

BOFH excuse #351:

PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair)