[LINK] Here's one that will snag a few

[Jan Whitaker]

You left out the important part, Karl. These were points by callers 
to radio with experience using them. I've never purchased one so 
little below is my opinion (except the one about savings) (Hi, 
Richard, just saw your points)

At 07:18 PM 20/02/2007, Karl Auer wrote:
>On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 18:15 +1100, Jan Whitaker wrote:
> > they don't fit all fixtures
>
>No - not all. Only about 99.9% of them. I've found one light that I
>can't get a longlife substitute for - a peculiarly shaped 40W bulb in
>our range hood. And I suppose specialist bulbs (like fridge lights etc)
>will continue to be whatever the manufacturers want.

and overhead hanging fixtures at a minimum. One person on the news 
tonight suggested there must be continuance of specialist bulbs. Will 
there be an industry left to make them? Or are they all imported anyway?

> > they interfere with remote controls for tv
>
>Sounds totally bogus. Proof please. Our house is full of longlife bulb

the guy who called in spent money and time trying to figure out why 
his remote stopped working. He went to a shop which sold him whatever 
the device was the remote went with and was asked immediately: do you 
have any fluoro light globes? yes. Take them out. The remote then worked.

> > they cause epileptic reactions and migraines in some people
>
>So do some incandescent lights.

Oh? how? do they have a frequency flicker like fluoros?


> > the light levels are 1/4 of the incans used in LV downlights, so you
> > need more to get similar light levels
>
>What's an LV downlight? Low Voltage? This is probably true. On the other
>hand, I've never seen the point of littering the ceiling with ten or
>twenty 50W halogens, whose chief purpose appears to be heating up the
>ceiling space.

yes, low voltage. And they're quite bright. (yes RC: halogens, my 
bad) One over a spot works very well. I have three in my kitchen only 
replacing a 60w max ceiling fixture, but they are only on when I work 
in there. I can finally see when I wash the dishes (by hand, no 
dishwasher)! I use a stove light for when I am out of the house and 
want light on for when I come home. See below re costs.

> > dimmer switches need to be fitted with balasts at costs of a lot of money
>
>A temporary problem. Plus we are not talking about, at a stroke,
>removing all incandescent bulbs from the country. Plenty of people will
>do as you intend to (hoard), and that will smooth the transition very
>nicely.

Yes temporary and probably not a major issue. People will just not 
use a dimmer system any more.

> > the sales pitch about length of life is not always reliable,
>
>Nor is it for incandescents.

But one of the economic support positions is that they ARE long life. 
If it's not true, they need to adjust the economic analysis. BTW, I 
have lamps that were put in my house when it was built 8 years ago 
that I've never had to replace. So I think I'll get a replacement set 
for all my lamps, and get another 8-10 years out of them.

> > up to 200 times the cost of incans, there will be a lot of unhappy campers
>
>Only those who can't do the maths and work out that a bulb that lasts
>200 times as long is worth it. Well, the number "200" is probably bogus
>on both sides of that argument. Unreasonable prices won't survive the
>first couple of months, though. And asking people to pay a litle mor
>efor their energy, even indirectly, is a Good Thing.

$.50/60w lamp vs $10/fluro lamp = 200 times. Those are the figures 
being used on the radio this morning. The fluro rep said the cheaper 
ones were less reliable than the more expensive ones for life of use.

>And people can replace their bulbs (and, much more rarely, fittings)
>over time; it's not like they will have to replace them all at once.
>
> > they contain toxic elements like mercury, so will require special disposal
>
>Not all of them. And is special disposal such a terrible thing? Or is
>the Great God Convenience too powerful?

not a convenience issue at all. They'll go straight in the landfill. 
It's a trade off concern for the environmental impact of adding even 
more toxic chemicals to the waste stream. Surely there is an economic 
and environmental impact that needs to be factored in for a fair assessment?

> > the minister had no answer for having businesses turn out office
> > lighting that is unneeded rather than punishing individual consumers
> > (again)
>
>And this relates to incandescent vs longlife exactly how? Or are you
>saying that because there is no solution over there for that problem we
>shouldn't bother with a solution to this problem over here? Sounds like
>Perfect getting in the way of Good again.

It relates to saving power, which was the original goal. has nothing 
to do with perfect, but better options to reach the goal.

> > they claim savings that are outlandish on electricity bills - rubbish!
>
>Prove it. Show us the numbers. Until then it's just claim against claim.
>Assuming a 20W longlife replaces a 100W incandescent bulb, it is
>directly saving 80%, or 80 cents in every dollar. Is that outlandish? If
>so, how?

Most of my lamps won't take a 100w lamp. All are rated for 60, 
including my ceiling fixtures.

The claims by Turnbull today to the school kids was a savings of 60% 
on power bills! That is rubbish. I'll use my house as an example. My 
last electric bill for 1 Aug to 1 Nov was $146, average of $49/month 
even numbers. Is Turnbull really wanting us to believe that $36 of 
that is electric lights, and only $13 is for everything else 
including: TV, radio, computers, refrigeration, toaster, electric 
drier, washing machine? Again, rubbish. Wait, he's probably talking 
about his Vaucluse house with all the exterior security lights and 
vanity lighting to keep the wife in vogue with the latest house 
beautiful mags, not the real people of the place.

Oh, and my water use is also less than half of the average for a 
single person (77 v 154) according to Southeast water. Reason: I 
don't water the garden, ever, even before the restrictions went on.

People can be efficient in their use of resources if they are taught 
to do so. Is it OK to have alternatives like fluoro lights? Of 
course! But don't sell it as the silver bullet to greenhouse gasses 
and forget that some people don't have Turnbull's income in order to 
make the change. There must be programs for exchange like in NSW to 
help with the transition AND compensation for those who are damaged 
either physically or re other things that stop working as a result of 
this change.

I stand by what I ended with. It was policy on the run (again).

Jan


Jan Whitaker
JLWhitaker Associates, Melbourne Victoria
jwhit at janwhitaker.com
business: http://www.janwhitaker.com
personal: http://www.janwhitaker.com/personal/
commentary: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/

'Seed planting is often the most important step. Without the seed, 
there is no plant.' - JW, April 2005
_ __________________ _