[LINK] myki - a tracking device (was Re: more myki pain)

[andrew clarke]

On Sun 2010-04-11 22:02:36 UTC+1000, Craig Sanders (cas at taz.net.au) wrote:

> > From what I understand anyone can request a Myki card from their web
> > site in without providing any form of ID.  You just have to provide a
> > valid address where you want them to send the card.
> 
> address and credit card are more than enough to identify an individual.

My point was that it was relatively trivial to provide them with false
information should you wish to.

> > I'm not sure how they would possibly determine "where you are at the
> > moment".  Not with any accuracy or reliability.
> 
> with real-time networking, they know where and when the card was used.
> they know where you got on the tram/train/bus, whether you got off or
> not, and where you got off.  They can make predictions on your current
> activities based on the recorded history of your movements and by
> cross-referencing you in other (marketing etc) databases (e.g. they can
> take a pretty good guess at knowing when you're at home or at work).
> they can deduce a lot about you by recording your routine travelpatterns
> and especially your occasional deviations from the routine.

OK, but they don't really need Myki to tell them that.  Maybe it makes
it slightly easier for them, but keep in mind that it's only ever
going to be primarily used be people who use public transport
regularly, which AFAIK is much less than half the population.

On the other hand, almost everyone has a mobile phone.

If someone wanted to watch a particular individual's movements with
any real accuracy I think it would be easier to hire a private
investigator...

> obviously, they can't track you when you're not on PT. not yet, anyway.
> not until they start using it as a cash card and myki readers start
> getting installed in shops, cinemas, pubs, etc.

Well using it as an all-purpose cash card doesn't seem particularly
wise to me.  Not so much for the privacy implications, but also the
risk of the card not working when you really need it to.

> > If someone has a particular reason for their destination to be unknown
> > they could choose to not touch-off.  Only relatively few stations have
> > barriers to stop people exiting without touching off.  Those people
> > would just need to weigh up the inconvenience of being charged the
> > full fare (for not touching-off) and versus possibly increased
> > privacy.
> 
> and by taking special precautions to avoid being tracked, they'll just
> make themselves stand out of from the crowd and thus become far easier
> to track.

I guess it depends how many people do it when the system is running at
full capacity.

My feeling is that in morning peak, touching-off at stations in the
city is going to be a complete disaster because of the long queues it
will create, and you'll end up with scores of people gettimg
impatient, not touching-off then jumping the barriers, and the
government will soon abandon the idea.

> > Finally, arguably anyone not wanting their travel habits potentially
> > monitored (by anyone, not just the government) probably shouldn't be
> > using public transport.
> 
> great attitude there - anyone not wanting to be spied upon constantly
> should just retire from modern civilisation (except they can't. it's not
> possible these days).

The reality is that it would be unreasonable for people to expect much
privacy while using public transport, particularly waiting at train
stations or on trains, on account of all the CCTV cameras.  Or other
passengers, for that matter.

"Spied upon constantly" is a long stretch from what I was referring
to, though.