[LINK] Does copyright have a future? [WAS: iinet wins!!]

[David Boxall]

 > But we weren't arguing about costs. We were arguing whether the
 > process and evidence gathering was simple
Actually Frank, the question was: "Is copyright realistically 
enforceable?"<http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/2010-February/086778.html>. 
You seem to be arguing that that it is, regardless of cost. I reckon, if 
the cost exceeds the benefit, it isn't. The paucity of enforcement seems 
to support me.

-- 
David Boxall                         | ignorance more frequently
                                       | begets confidence than does
http://david.boxall.id.au            | knowledge
                                       | --Charles Darwin (introduction
                                       |  to 'The Descent of Man' 1871)


On 9/02/2010 11:07 PM, Frank O'Connor wrote:
> Dave, Dave, Dave ...
>
> When did I say that?
>
> I said in earlier missives that a cost benefit analysis would be done by
> the copyright licensee.
>
> I also said that the process was simple, and could be conducted by
> simpletons.
>
> I've conducted thousands of civil and prosecutorial cases (although I
> gave it all up about 15 years back) ... so I'm living proof that it's
> simple and that it can be conducted by simpletons. And if you've done it
> you would know that 90% of civil cases are NOT DEFENDED ... they go
> straight from issue of summons to judgment.
>
> Government agency, huh? Well, if the copyright holders can get Conroy to
> run their prosecutions and civil cases for them (a Nirvana which they
> seek in the US and no doubt Australia) cost won't be an issue for the
> copyright holders will it? After all governments have unlimited budgets
> for litigation costs.
>
> But we weren't arguing about costs. We were arguing whether the process
> and evidence gathering was simple .. and news-flash, Dave - they are.
> Now you may have gained a great sense of achievement and thought the
> process was hard and involving, but the sad fact is that litigation is
> simple. Criminal litigation is slightly more complex than civil, because
> of the increased burden of proof and the burden of additional due
> process .... but neither is rocket science, Dave.
>
> Regards,
> ---
> At 8:14 PM +1100 on 9/2/10 you wrote:
>> So now you reckon cost is not an issue?
>>
>> BTW: I've conducted investigations, prepared prosecutions and acted as
>> witness in cases for a Government agency. I'm well aware of the
>> intricacies of the legal system.
>>
>> --
>> David Boxall | The more that wise people learn
>> | The more they come to appreciate
>> http://david.boxall.id.au | How much they don't know.
>> --Confucius
>>
>>
>> On 9/02/2010 2:55 PM, Frank O'Connor wrote:
>>> To issue and process legal proceedings:
>>>
>>> Go to the Court of Issue.
>>> Nab one of their pro-forma summonses or writs
>>> Fill in the bits and the Statement of Claim
>>> Sign and validate summons or writ
>>> Pay issue fee to Court Registrar
>>> Arrange for service of Summons or Writ on the defendant
>>> After service wait for any Defences (three weeks to a month)
>>> If no Defence received apply for Judgement at the Court
>>> Execute Judgement by Warrent, Order or other remedy.
>>> If Judgement Execution unsatisfied, issue a Bankruptcy Notice and
>>> institute insolvency proceedings.
>>>
>>> Costs apply all along the way, process must be followed .... but yes, it
>>> is that simple.
>>>
>>> Given the fact that none of the above stretches the mind in any way ...
>>> it's much better to have a lawyer do it.
>>>
>>> In other words, simple in practice, simple in theory.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> At 1:25 PM +1100 on 9/2/10 you wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2010 10:14 AM, Frank O'Connor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Enforceability of copyright probably isn't the issue ... that's a
>>>>>>> simple problem of evidence and process ...
>>>>>> If truly simple, wouldn't enforcement be common? Copyright privileges
>>>>>> are often infringed. If enforcement is simple, why isn't it
>>>>>> practised?
>>>>>
>>>>> Usually because of cost-benefit analysis. The evidence and process
>>>>> costs time and money to initiate so the copyright holder wants to get
>>>>> best value for money so to speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idiot can draft a summons/writ and issue it through a court ...
>>>>> hey, that's why we have lawyers.
>>>>> ...
>>>> So: simple in theory, unrealistic in practice.
>
>