[LINK] Propaganda, manipulation and the abuse of media [Was: IPA, astroturfing and fantsy themes/Science under attack]

[TKoltai]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: link-bounces at mailman.anu.edu.au 
> [mailto:link-bounces at mailman.anu.edu.au] On Behalf Of David Boxall
> Sent: Tuesday, 21 February 2012 8:47 AM
> To: link at mailman.anu.edu.au
> Subject: [LINK] Propaganda, manipulation and the abuse of 
> media [Was: IPA, astroturfing and fantsy themes/Science under attack]
> 
> 
> Global warming has been mentioned here previously, but I'm not sure 
> whether it's on-topic for Link. Promulgation of potentially suicidal 
> misinformation and abuses of media/information technology, I 
> believe are 
> on-topic.
> 
> On 20/02/2012 11:06 PM, Craig Sanders wrote:
> > ...
> > there's hundreds of billions of dollars at stake and billions being 
> > spent on propaganda to create Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. ...
> 
> On 21/02/2012 3:00 AM, TKoltai wrote:
>  > ...
>  > Ignoring for a moment, the debate of "actual" climate, 
> change, ... Tom; as usual, your "actual" position is unclear. 

I try very hard to normally ignore the bamboo slivers that linkers so
enjoy inserting under the real import of discussion on Link. However,
sometimes it is the only method of eliciting truly informed discussion.

> those who _are_ 
> best qualified agree that we are at substantial risk.
> 
> Among the unqualified:
> - pathologically inflated egos _believe_ they know better and;
> - the mendacious _say_ they know better.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that we have any climatologists on Link,
so exactly like the Nuclear disaster last year; we, the LinkMob... are a
bunch of observers repeating others considered opinions and
deductions...

In the immortal words of the wise one.... 
"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they say."

Which is pretty much the argument for both the For and Against camps of
climate change.

However in relation to Craig's posting.

Money generally drives modern researchers; e.g.: Smoking doctors, Cancer
cure discovering universities, File downloading P2P damages the economy.

Anyone these days can find an "expert" for sale.
Therefore we must all make up our own minds.

As everyone on Link is doubtless here for non-commercial reasons,
generally I feel that we can trust the opinions of each other. But let's
face it, we all know that Research reports have to be paid for by
somebody... So on the basis that all Government funded reports have a
commercial lobbyist somewhere behind them...

When the trucks and buses cue up in the road outside my home waiting for
the traffic light to change, I am convinced that pollution is causing
respitory ailments. For this there is empirical evidence.

When I pump CO2 into my Hothouse, the bonsai's start to loose nitrogen
in their leaves, at 450 parts per million. This is empirical evidence.

The ice ages that have occurred over the last four hundred thousand
years are empirical evidence that planet atmospheric heating and cooling
occurs without any assistance from the trucks and buses waiting at the
traffic lights outside my place.

Attempts have been made to correlate current temperature increases and
past temperature patterns.

The only conclusion from all those correlation attempts that could be
considered empirical is that this appears to have happened in the past.

> Tom; as usual, your "actual" position is unclear. ... 

Let me make it clear...

I have no Fricking clue. I am merely a Zombie repeating what I have read
in an attempted condensed and hopefully interesting manner.

Is pollution bad?  - Hell yes. (IMHO)
Is it changing our climate ? - Empirically ? I have no idea and neither
does anyone else on Link.

You may all have an opinion. It may even be an informed opinion, (in
your opinion), however as to it's veracity, or percentage probability of
accuracy... Hell, we won't know for about another 400,000 years at which
time we will be finally able to compare two lots of 400k y.o. Ice cores
and get real empirical data... 

adding one further bamboo sliver... 
Empirically, vegetative composition and the ensuing methane has been the
single largest cause of atmospheric heating over the last 400,000 years.
Volcanic eruptions and meteor strikes have been the single largest cause
of temperature reduction, especially when occurring simultaneously with
our 26,000 year elliptical and perambulating epoch cycles.

If human assisted climate change does exist, then it is doubtless a
result of our eating habits.... In that we have now managed to surpass
that output volume of vegetative decomposition with the farming of dairy
cattle.

The problem with climate change experts, is that for the most part, they
are not simultaneously practising economists, anthropologists or
capitalists and fail to actually do the sums leading to a sustainably
beneficial outcome for all.
Instead their laziness and lack of understanding bolstered by the crowd
sourced guilt complex, forces them to emulate a cartoon character
bleating the oft worn phrase "The Planet, The planet, we are killing the
planet.... Usually via SMS or email" thereby making themselves feel as
if they have contributed; (whilst driving down the freeway doing 110 in
their 8 Cyl GMH air-conditioned truck). 

These parrots of Climate change continually fail to produce workable
solutions.
Unfortunately there is no quick fix for the problem whether it is real
or imagined.

However growing waves of FUD will allow for America to enforce the
Carbon Tax Currency swap solution to their decreasing dollar value.

The financial alternatives available to us to stop "climate change" and
our continuing evolution as a species is a return to the socialist
co-operative society banning fossil fuel based mechanisation and killing
all the cows.

Unless we reduce the planets population dramatically and immediately,
that solution is a fiscal impossibility leading to probable mass
starvation and a feudal existence.

P.S. : They don't have Internet or Wireless phones in socialist Amish
style non-mechanised farming co-operatives.

P.P.S. : Luddites traditionally go for the man in an attempt to use
ridicule to discount their opponents pearls of wisdom.

TomK