[Mihalic] RE: katim skin

[John Burton]

Indeed. I left that one out because sutim nus might well have something to
do with initiation for the Bosavi! 
(For Watuts, at least, 'piercing the noses' of the boys was a central part
of initiation and 'sutim nus' is one expression covering the whole thing).

Sutim nus also means 'to ignore, to snub', as in turn away from.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Bainton [mailto:n.bainton at smi.uq.edu.au] 
Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2008 10:14 AM
To: john.burton at anu.edu.au; ASAONET at LISTSERV.UIC.EDU
Subject: RE: katim skin

And then there is sutim nus (shooting the nose), which I found when used
by Lihirians generally implied that someone was talking bullshit or
ripping them off.  

Nick Bainton. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Oceanic Anthropology Discussion Group
[mailto:ASAONET at LISTSERV.UIC.EDU] On Behalf Of John Burton
Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2008 9:09 AM
To: ASAONET at LISTSERV.UIC.EDU
Subject: Re: katim skin

It is certain that there a great many local variants like this deriving
from
vernaculars, however I think it is indeed local. 

Here are some more mainstream usages conveying similar meanings:

* tok  baksait - gossip behind someone's back
* tok bilas - (i) boasting, exaggeration, elaborate but empty talk  (ii)
mockery, sarcasm to someone's face
* tokbilasim - to rubbish, mock, insult
* sutim tok long - (i) to pointedly challenge (ii) to insult someone to
their face
* tok nogutim - to swear at someone
* tok pilai long - to tease
* mekim planti toktok - to gossip, to go on and on about something
someone
has done
* i gat toktok i stap  - there is an issue with something someone has
done
* toktok planti - to talk unnecessarily, to nag

Of these, directing the sarcastic type of 'tok bilas' at s.o. would
definitely cut their skin.

John Burton


-----Original Message-----
From: Oceanic Anthropology Discussion Group
[mailto:ASAONET at LISTSERV.UIC.EDU] On Behalf Of Bambi Schieffelin
Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2008 1:46 AM
To: ASAONET at LISTSERV.UIC.EDU
Subject: katim skin

Dear ASAO readers,

In the mid-1980s, Bosavi speakers who had exposure to Tok Pisin used a
new
vernacular phrase "do:go:f gedian" literally 'cuts the skin' to mean
gossip
or insult, usually as a negative imperative. This loan translation or
calque
was from the Tok Pisin katim skin which the Mihalic 1971 Jacaranda (and
the
online Tok Pisin) Dictionaries gloss as circumcise or scarify. In
Bosavi,
this vernacular innovation was only used to refer to talk, never to the
other two activities, (there was no circumcision in Bosavi).

Since the skin is such a potent affective site in PNG, I was wondering
if
others either heard the Tok Pisin expression katim skin used for gossip
or
insult, or like Bosavi, picked up as a loan translation and expressed in
the
vernacular. 

Thanks -

Bambi B. Schieffelin