off topic ...Re: [LINK] Leave on, or turn off?

Thu Nov 30 16:56:52 AEDT 2006

Ivan,

I thought we were doing quite well avoiding the terrible car analagy.

But I have to concur with your comments about Toyota's you just can't
argue with the facts..I am always amazed at the number of Toyota Utes in
operation in footage of war zones! And those who  switch to one after
owning other cars with apparent reputations and prices higher than
Hyundai are the greatest evangelists.

With regard to a fiat, my parents brought our fiat 600 from Kenya when
we migrated to Australia in 1970. The problem was no one in Perth knew
how to maintain it (but it seemed to work fine)  or apparently drive it 
they carried if off the ship!

m
PS I have a different brand loyalty.

Ivan Trundle wrote:
> I still think that there are too many imponderables, and too many  
> generalisations. To illustrate this, try substituting  'automobile'  for 
> 'computer' or 'server'.
> 
> We expect vehicles to last a period of time (generally measured in  
> years, sometimes kilometres travelled), but expect that (anecdotally  - 
> I'm not pushing any barrows here) Toyotas are built better than  Fiats, 
> even though the underlying components are much the same. Usage  patterns 
> vary wildly, too - and yet we still make these assessments.
> 
> I suspect that computers are much the same. A server (one would hope)  
> is *designed* from the outset to work continuously, over a period of  
> time. Laptops are built to survive the rigours of movement,  
> environmental thermal variation, being put to sleep and so on.  Desktop 
> machines are designed to work in a different, more stable  environment, 
> but not perhaps with the same demands as that of servers.
> 
> More specifically, hard disks are designed with bearings that are  
> expected to spin for a period of time before failure (marketing  people 
> aside, there are engineers that specify these details before  the 
> marketing dept get to run over the data), platters are designed  to spin 
> for a period of time, arms that are expected to transport the  read and 
> write heads for a period of time, and logic boards that are  expected to 
> cope with electrical input for a period of time.
> 
> On the hard disk alone (just one of many components under the  spotlight 
> here), you might want to read this:
> 
> http://www.bitmicro.com/press_resources_war_of_the_disks2.php
> 
> Horses for courses - the different speeds and capacities of hard  disks, 
> etc, all need to be factored in.
> 
> And on an anecdotal level - I can attest to having a fanless desktop  
> machine that has run continuously since 2000, acting as my home  server. 
> I have other servers both at home and at work that have run  for longer, 
> with no faults - and have withstood power brown-outs,  surges, lightning 
> spikes, and the regular temperature fluctuations  that a 
> non-airconditioned space affords.
> 
> I suspect that Stewart is alluding to the overall cost in having a  
> machine either on or off at times, but factors such as power spikes  and 
> other malevolent events depend on how well the box is constructed.
> 
> Going back to the analogy of cars:
> 
> You wouldn't expect a Hyundai to take you across Africa, but then a  
> Toyota Landcruiser might just be over-engineered for the daily trip  to 
> and from school in North Sydney. But, ultimately, they are all  designed 
> for a particular task, and with a particular life cycle.
> 
> iT
> 
> 
> On 30/11/2006, at 3:27 PM, Stewart Fist wrote:
> 
>> Thanks to all for the rash of anecdotes -- they have helped me  
>> clarify the
>> question, although I'm still dubious about many of the answers.
>>
>> Do people accept that a manufacturer's MTBF is something devised by  
>> rigorous
>> testing rather than a figure invented by the only mathematically- 
>> literate
>> spin-doctor in the PR department.
>>
>> Turning off the monitor (especially CRT) is obviously a good  thing.  
>> I'm not
>> sure how much of the monitor electronics are active during sleep mode.
>>
>> Also for home computers, especially when users are at work, the  risk of
>> leaving the machines linked to powerlines during thunderstorms must  be a
>> major consideration.  In pure monetary terms, this probably  outweighs 
>> any
>> concern about hard-disk bearing wear.
>>
>> A couple of other sub-questions:
>>
>> 1. If a PC goes into sleep mode, turns down its hard-disk, and cuts  
>> power to
>> its monitor, wouldn't it suffer pretty-much the same thermal shock  
>> when it
>> powers up ?
>>
>> Doesn't that kill the thermal-shock argument?  Although, as Ivan  
>> points out,
>> most modern machinery is designed to accommodate this.
>>
>> 2. How do servers stand up against desktop PCs in terms of long-term
>> reliability?  Are differences just due to more attention to cooling or
>> better components, or is there some other factor involved ?
>>
>> 3 Do hard-disks wear out faster when they are constantly  accessed ?  
>> Or is
>> the life-span set purely by running time, irrespective of actual  usage.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Stewart Fist, writer, journalist, film-maker
>> 70 Middle Harbour Road, LINDFIELD, 2070, NSW, Australia
>> Ph +61 (2) 9416 7458
>>
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>>
>>
> 
> -- 
> Ivan Trundle
> http://itrundle.com ivan at itrundle.com
> ph: +61 (0)418 244 259 fx: +61 (0)2 6286 8742
> skype: callto://ivanovitchk
> 
> 
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