[LINK] Newspapers online

David Goldstein wavey_one at yahoo.com
Mon Mar 29 13:17:23 AEDT 2010 

Of course, I wouldn't expect anything else from this list but Murdoch bashing.

As for my comments, if you had read the, I have mentioned the BBC, The Guardian and New York Times as well, and I wasn't aware these were owned by Murdoch.

As for Chinese newspapers being mass market, you can argue they are in their own country. I'm arguing on a global scale. As I said earlier, they don't have huge readerships outside their own countries.

Not that I've seen figures to indicate it, but I would be surprised if readership for Chinese newspapers online goes anywhere near those of, say, The Guardian, New York Times, BBC, Daily Telegraph and even The Times and Sunday Times.

As for Chinese newspaper etc making money, everything I've read on issues on Chinese markets indicates the markets would not be huge. Of course there are websites like Tencent (or something similar) that have made their owners billions, but as many western companies have found, it's entertainment that makes the money in China and many Asian countries. Not news.

And of course Kim, you must know everything. And more than every mass market newspaper that has tried to make money online from advertising, as I doubt there is one that has made money. But then you can go into discussions about how Chinese spend money, that they like to save a greater percentage of their incomes than almost all western countries and a range of other issues.

I totally agree that "They don't need more money than the currently get from online advertising, they need something like what they used to get from print advertising which is considerably more." But your comment has nothing to do with my comment you related it to.

And yes, we will see what happens. And if you read my comments, I haven't said anything in favour of Murdoch. All I've done is comment on the idea of paywalls. I'm happy to discuss the merits or otherwise of Murdoch and his media empire, but it's not what this discussion is about.

David

----- Original Message ----
> From: Kim Holburn <kim at holburn.net>
> To: Link list <Link at anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Mon, 29 March, 2010 1:01:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers online
> 
> 
On 2010/Mar/28, at 6:17 PM, David Goldstein wrote:
> You seem to not 
> realise that the 2 aforementioned papers only need a  
> small 
> percentage of their online readers to pay for access for them  
> to 
> be getting more money than they currently do from online  
> 
> advertising.

They don't need more money than the currently get from 
> online  
advertising, they need something like what they used to get 
> from print  
advertising which is considerably more.

> Just 
> because millions of people read your newspapers online doesn't  
> 
> mean you earn much money from advertising.

Then you're doing it 
> wrong.

> As for the Chinese and Indian newspapers, VERY few people 
> outside  
> those countries will want to read them. The large mass 
> market  
> newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK and mass market papers 
> in the US  
> are global media outlets now.

Perhaps you meant 
> English newspapers.  I would have thought a market  
of 1.3 billion 
> (or so) was a mass market.


What you seem to be saying is that the 
> only mass market media is  
Murdoch.  So then the original 
> statement :
> Times and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the 
> first  
> media firm to test consumers' appetite to pay for 
> mass-market news  
> online.

May as well be :
> Times 
> and Sunday Times newspapers from June, becoming the first  
> Murdoch 
> news sites to test consumers' appetite to pay for mass- 
> market news 
> online.



On 2010/Mar/28, at 9:37 PM, David Goldstein 
> wrote:

> Ivan and Karl, mention the large readership of Indian and 
> Chinese  
> newspapers. But they are not global players like several 
> British or  
> American news outlets.

Yeah there are only 
> Chinese people in ... every country in the world.

> Plus the markets 
> may be large but there is little money.

Not true.

> Hence why, 
> as many people say, Google pulled out of China. They made  
> very 
> little money there and so their decision was very easy.

You know they 
> made little money there for sure?  And that was the  
reason they 
> pulled out?

> Newspapers such as The Guardian and New York Times are 
> widely read  
> throughout the world.
>
> And once people 
> get over the anti-Murdoch sentiment that pervades  
> this 
> list,

Compared to you we're probably all virulently 
> anti-Murdoch.

> people might have a reasonable debate on the pluses 
> and minuses of  
> paywalls for news content. At least the press in 
> the UK has been  
> debating this with interesting points for and 
> against.

Why do we have to debate it?  The debate that really 
> matters, as they  
say, is the one which makes the money.  We only 
> have to wait a while  
until we get to the "I told you so" 
> bit.

>
> David
>
>
>
> ----- Original 
> Message ----
>> From: Ivan Trundle <> ymailto="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com" 
> href="mailto:ivan at itrundle.com">ivan at itrundle.com>
>> To: Link 
> list <> href="mailto:Link at anu.edu.au">Link at anu.edu.au>
>> Sent: Sun, 28 
> March, 2010 7:10:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [LINK] Newspapers 
> online
>>
>>
> On 28/03/2010, at 6:17 PM, David 
> Goldstein wrote:
>
>> I suggest you
>> read the 
> discussions on the move by The Times and Sunday Times in  
>> 
> greater
>> detail.
>
> I have: it's one of my favourite 
> areas of interest. Might I
>> suggest that you come down off your high 
> horse?
>
>> Sure every country
>> has some differences, 
> and the BBC and ABC will benefit. But you  
>> seem to fail 
> to
>> understand that the BBC/ABC receives their money from 
> licence
>> fee/government.
>
> No, I do 
> not.
>
>> You seem to not realise that
>> the 2 
> aforementioned papers only need a small percentage of their  
>> 
> online readers
>> to pay for access for them to be getting more money 
> than they  
>> currently do from
>> online 
> advertising.
>
> No, I do not.
>
>> Just because 
> millions of
>> people read your newspapers online doesn't mean you earn 
> much money  
>> from
>> advertising.
>
> I 
> was making no comparisons with advertising revenue and the
>> 
> profitability of a news media outlet.
>
>> As for the Chinese and 
> Indian
>> newspapers, VERY few people outside those countries will want 
> to read
>> them.
>
> So what? Their readership is large 
> enough to warrant a different
>> outlook.
>
>> The large 
> mass market newspapers (and the BBC) in the UK
>> and mass market 
> papers in the US are global media outlets now.
>
> 
> They've
>> got a long way to go before they are truly global in 
> news  
>> presentation. And
>> whilst Murdoch might have 
> a global presence, each market is
>> different.
>
> 
> iT
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-- 
Kim 
> Holburn
IT Network & Security Consultant
T: +61 2 61402408  M: 
> +61 404072753
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