[LINK] Now that's secure - I guess

[Noel Butler]

On Wed, 2012-04-04 at 11:47 +1000, Karl Schaffarczyk wrote:


> > > and permit alternatives such as Gmail
> > > sending via their SMTP server too.



> No, you didn't read it wrong - using something like Gmail to pick up your


OK, I did read it wrong, I interpreted it as being ISP allow gmail
routing, that's more or less what you wrote :)


> work or ISP mail is a legitmate use of something like Gmail. But combined


Don't have that problem as most of the corporate mail servers I've run
have sensitive content and staff are expressly forbidden to use gmail
for it (due to yankie Patriot Act)


> with SPF hard fails, it means you cannot send from that address using Gmail.


I can see where you are coming from, but it is the ISP's domain, they
are held responsible for any and all actions their users make using
their domain name, it is their right to decide how this is enforced,
just as it is the right of the sender to use only a free mail service,
or a host service of their choice with their own domain name.

Gmail use IIRC the long deprecated SSL ports (or have they come into the
21st century and allow 25/587/110/143 with TLS ?) which AFAIK, no ISP
blocks those SSL ports on outbound, just as I can't imagine any blocking
587/110/143.

The solution is simple, use and only use gmail (yahoo/hotmail/etc), or
get your own domain name for less than 10 bucks a year, and have that
utilise a host provider or even gmail and don't configure your DNS with
SPF records. In fact I would have thought most people on _this list_
would be capable of getting a cheap no frills VPS (I paid 50 year for UK
and 67 a year for US) and run their own mail service if it is _that_
important to them, hell, even your average DSL connection is stable
enough to run one on reliably now days. The options are a plenty, and I
do not consider whining on a mailing list about it one of them :)


> > If I had my time again starting and running an ISP, I'd refuse to provide
> email with standard accounts. Go and get hotmail/gmail or whatever!
> 


That's a risky decision, but one you are entitled to make, such a pity
though , forcing your customers to use insecure mail networks (insecure
as far as the govt regs of their countries - U.S. patriot act that gives
them open slather access on your gmail), we all bitch Australia is one
of the most over regulated countries in the western world, but (the
only) good thing about that is our privacy laws and protections are
amongst the best.

I don't use any mail based service outside this country (barring my
personal domains secondary and tertiary MX's which might accept one
legitimate mail message every 6 months), no, I don't conduct illegal or
even questionable activities, but I consider my right to privacy a must.
I don't like the fact that gmail scans every persons emails looking for
how to spam you, and who knows what else they do with that information,
I don't like the idea that with gmail your "deleted and purged emails"
are never actually deleted, I don't like the idea that anyone, agents of
a govt LEA, or plain ol sys admins can read anything that's destined to
me or by me, especially when they can do so without a court issued
warrant. 

We expect privacy invasions in work emails, that's made clear in the
internal IT policies of most companies, and it is legal, but personal
mail is completely different, there's a reason why it's called personal,
but, all that said, it is a personal choice, but in doing so I use my
own domain, so I can say, "hey, I only send from here and there", if
using the ISP mail account I use that From field and use smtp auth,
problem is solved.




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