[LINK] Andrew Keene 'The Cult of the Amateur'

[David Goldstein]

The debate Andrew Keen has raised is a good one, and the anonymity afforded online causes all sorts of problems and I largely agree with Richard and Adam.

Anonymity is great when people respect others, but they so often take it as a licence to abuse, make unsubstantiated and libellous claims. Even on sites such as news.com.au, the comments made using anonymous names is just astounding. Sites such as guardian.co.uk and timesonline.co.uk are better, but still sometimes frightening.

It's possible this descent into ever more abusive commentary on all manner of sites including news sites will lead to ever more regulation (self or by government), if not only to stave off defamation proceedings.

If it was just a case of "those who don't like those environments to leave", well, this would be fine. But what if it involves you personally in some way?

I agree with Richard that using ones real identity does not end the problem, however it curtails it somewhat.

David

----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Chirgwin <rchirgwin at ozemail.com.au>
To: link at anu.edu.au
Sent: Wednesday, 19 September, 2007 7:44:04 AM
Subject: Re: [LINK] Andrew Keene 'The Cult of the Amateur'

Jan Whitaker wrote:
> Did any linkers see the New Hour on Tuesday where Andrew Keene talked 
> about his views on the Internet? I wasn't listening closely until the 
> end when he said one of the problems was the anonymous participation 
> on the net, and that that has contributed to incivility.
>
> I disagree. I think anonymity has its place. If one wants to say 
> something intentionally provocative without revealing one's identity, 
> shouldn't that be allowed? In times when governments are accusing 
> people of 'thought crimes' when people disagree with the powerful, 
> isn't anonymity a requirement, similar to the publications in 
> revolutionary times in the American colonies?
>
> Yes, there are lunatics on the net and raging testosterone that makes 
> some online places unpalatable. So what? Isn't the solution for those 
> who don't like those environments to leave, just as one does when they 
> encounter such things if they don't like them in meat space?
A contrarian in both directions responds ...

First, in the "meat" world, it's perfectly reasonable to resent someone 
ruining enjoyment of the public space, whether it's a pub or a park or 
whatever. "If you don't like it, leave" puts the onus in the wrong 
direction, IMO: why should (for eg) the sober make accommodation for the 
sozzled?

However, anonymity per se isn't the problem, it's manners! I don't see 
that "removing anonymity" in the online world would improve things, any 
more than a photo ID on the shirt would stop people behaving badly in 
pubs. (Actually, the reason I don't go to pubs anyhow is that my hearing 
is already too far diminished for me to want to risk what little remains 
to me.)

I see plenty of bad manners on mailing lists; but I don't see anything 
which proves that the anonymous individual has worse manners. On another 
list I read, the foulest 'mouth' and largest number of pointless insults 
comes from an individual who is not only identified, but reasonably 
high-profile; and on yet another, a screaming row lasting more than a 
week broke out over *map projections* for heaven's sake. None of the 
people involved in the spit-fight saw fit to conceal their identities!

RC
>
> Thoughts? Anyone read his book?
>
> Jan
>
> Jan Whitaker
> JLWhitaker Associates, Melbourne Victoria
> jwhit at janwhitaker.com
> business: http://www.janwhitaker.com
> personal: http://www.janwhitaker.com/personal/
> commentary: http://janwhitaker.com/jansblog/
>
> Writing Lesson #78: In writing, 'do overs' are a 'good thing' -- and a 
> requirement. - JW, Sept, 2007
>
> Writing Lesson #54:
> Learn to love revision. Think of it as polishing the silver for 
> guests. - JW, May, 2007
>
> 'Seed planting is often the most important step. Without the seed, 
> there is no plant.' - JW, April 2005
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